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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

New Audio Tapes Of Sen. Lindsey Graham On Trump, January 6; Trump Backed Candidates Vie For G.O.P. Nominations In West Virginia And Nebraska; New Photos Purportedly Of Trapped Ukrainians Show Condition Of Wounded; Police Release Dashcam Video Of Inmate Casey White's Arrest; Trump-Backed Candidate Vie For GOP Nominations In WV, Nebraska; New Audio Tapes On Sen. Lindsey Graham On Trump, Jan. 6 Attack; Former Adviser To Four President's David Gergen On His New Book And The Next Generation Of Leaders. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired May 10, 2022 - 20:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well, Trump was banned from Twitter after the Capitol riot. Now, a person close to the former President says that as of right now, Trump remains committed to his own app, which is Truth Social.

We will see about that.

Thanks for joining us. AC 360 begins right now.



We begin tonight with multiple breaking news stories. In just a moment, we'll bring you new audio tapes obtained by two reporters with "The New York Times." In them, you'll hear Republican Senator Lindsey Graham speaking on January 6th, sharing his opinion of the former President and his behavior during the January 6 attacks.

First the other breaking story, primary matches in multiple states tonight, including a big one, where polls just closed in West Virginia, providing a window perhaps into whether the former President's endorsement is enough to shape the party even more in his own image.

The West Virginia matchup includes two Republican Congressmen forced into a fight after redistricting. One Congressman, Alex Mooney carries the endorsement of the former President, the other Congressman David McKinley, with support of the state's popular Republican governor, and even the state's Democratic Senator Joe Manchin.

In Nebraska tonight, a similar matchup, a candidate endorsed by the state's Republican establishment versus one endorsed by the former President and also facing a number of sexual misconduct allegations.

As we do in these primary nights, let's go to John King at the magic wall in Washington.

So what are you seeing out of West Virginia's second congressional district and talk about why that race is so interesting?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So let's bring it up, Anderson. Two primaries in West Virginia, one we care about right here. You mentioned why.

This is a Trump versus the establishment match. It's Alex Mooney versus David McKinley, both Republican incumbent congressmen. This is the first Republican incumbent on incumbent in either party race we've had this year. As you mentioned, West Virginia lost the seat in the post census reapportionment, so these two are forced to run against each other.

Trump endorsed Alex Mooney. He is a member of the House Freedom Caucus. He is the more conservative of these two House members, but the real reason is because of two votes from David McKinley. David McKinley likes the bipartisan approach when necessary, voted for the Biden bipartisan infrastructure bill, Trump wanted Republicans to vote no.

More importantly, from Trump's perspective, David McKinley voted for the independent commission initially proposed to look into the January 6th attacks. Donald Trump, of course did not want that. So David McKinley to Donald Trump is persona non grata.

You mentioned the establishment, most of the state's Republican establishment is for Congressman McKinley. You see him with a narrow lead right now, but we're very early with 11 percent and the Republican governor is for McKinley, so is the Democratic Senator Joe Manchin.

Trump is for Mooney and pro-Trump forces in the Republican Party. We're just starting to count the votes, Anderson, 11 percent in, 219- vote lead for Congressman McKinley right now over Congressman Mooney. You can tell we're going to be at this a little bit. Everyone expected it to be a close race and it starts out that way. We'll see if it continues.

COOPER: In Nebraska, polls don't close for another hour.

KING: Right. They don't close for another hour and you set the stakes quite nicely. Again, you're going to hear this a lot. May is a very big month. Donald Trump had a good week in Ohio last week, Two contests tonight, the West Virginia, the one we just talked about; the Nebraska governor's race here.

Let me bring it over to the governor's side here and look at the candidates. By the end of the month, we will have a pretty good report card on Trump versus the establishment in these primaries.

This is Trump's candidate, Charles Herbster. He's a businessman. He's a farmer. He's been with Trump for years even before he got involved in this governor's race. He is accused, Anderson, by nine women now of inappropriately touching them in recent years. He denies those allegations Trump has said he does not believe them to be true. Herbster in fact has tried to suggest they come from the Republican establishment. Jim Pillen is endorsed by the incumbent governor, Governor Ricketts.

He is term limited, can't run again. He has sparred with Trump repeatedly over the years. This is Pillen versus Herbster. In many ways, it's Trump versus Ricketts, if you will. Trump versus the establishment Republican governor.

Now, the interesting thing here is there is a third candidate who has polled pretty well, a more moderate candidate, State Senator Brett Lindstrom. So, we'll have to watch this one play out. You mentioned the polls close at nine o'clock tonight.

Again, West Virginia and Nebraska tonight; Pennsylvania and Georgia by the end of the month. Donald Trump's sway in the Republican Party getting a big test in this month's primaries including tonight.

COOPER: We're going to continue to watch this as the numbers come in, this hour and throughout the night. John King, thank you.

Keep with the former President's influence on the party, new audio tapes, we want to play you now, another high profile Republican in Congress speaking away from the public on January 6th, about his own personal beliefs involving the former President and his behavior on that day, January 6.

This time, Senator Lindsey Graham, like similar tapes that we broadcast, they come from the reporting of two "New York Times" reporters, and CNN political analysts, Alex Burns and Jonathan Martin, and their new book, "This Will Not Pass: Trump, Biden, and the Battle for America's Future." They join me now.

So Jonathan, you interviewed Senator Graham on January 6 after the Capitol had been attacked, I want to just play some of the audio of that interview.


SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We'll actually come out of this thing stronger. Moments like this reset. People will calm down. People will say, "I don't want to be associated with that."

This is a group within a group. What this does, there will be a rallying effect for a while, the country says "we're better than this."

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Biden will help that, right?

GRAHAM: Totally. He'll be maybe the best person to have, right? I mean, how can you get at Joe Biden?



COOPER: So if you compare January 6th Lindsey Graham to the Lindsey Graham of today, how stark are the differences? Because we should point out that Lindsey Graham publicly said that he had, you know, he hated the way it ended with him and Trump, but he'd had enough.

MARTIN: Yes, you can almost hear his voice, Anderson, Senator Graham trying to sort of play out what the impact of this attack, which as we talked was still sort of ongoing as we spoke that afternoon on the sixth, in a secure location after the Capitol was evacuated.

The Capitol Police was still trying to clear the Capitol in those moments, but Graham is already thinking ahead. He is thinking about the political impact on his party and thinking about the impact on the country.

And could this be a 9/11-style moment where the country rallies together? And who better to lead the country than a conciliatory figure like the new President, Graham's old friend, Joe Biden. And my goodness, those two assumptions in the days and weeks later somewhat obviously proved to be errant.

The country did not come together after January 6th. It in fact, deepened the partisan divisions and Joe Biden was not able to rally the country, because he is sort of one more partisan actor on the political scene in this tribal moment that we're living through in this country.

COOPER: Is it clear to you what made Graham flip back? Because I mean, I think I don't know -- I can't remember if it was the next day, he flew out in the airport, and he was heckled by people at the airport and he seemed upset by that.

We should point out, we reached out to Senator Graham's office today to see if he believes the things he said. He says he stands by them, or if he stands by them that they responded in part saying, quote, "Senator Graham has said that the Joe Biden we see as President is not the one we saw in the Senate. He's pursued a far-left agenda as President." He wouldn't say whether he stands by, you know, the audio.

MARTIN: Yes. So look, I think Senator Graham, like a lot of Republicans in the days and weeks after January 6, as we capture in great detail in this book, they thought that maybe this was it, and maybe it was time to turn the page and just maybe their voters were willing to turn the page from Donald Trump and kind of put the last four years behind them.

And I think what happened, Anderson is, whether it was in the airports or via e-mail or calls or old fashioned letters, G.O.P. lawmakers like Lindsey Graham found out their voters didn't want to move on. And they didn't feel particularly exercised about January 6th, and they weren't enamored at all with Joe Biden and they want to keep the party's embrace of Donald Trump going.

And I think once people like Graham and Kevin McCarthy figure that out, you know, it was back to normal and normal was sticking with Donald Trump.

COOPER: Alex, Senator Graham said that people won't want to be associated with what happened January 6th. That clearly hasn't happened. I mean, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy who said the former President bore responsibility for the insurrection is now calling the former President, the Republicans' secret weapons suggesting he could be President again. Does all this come down to his influence at the ballot box?

ALEX BURNS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, Anderson, I mean, even setting aside the irony of calling Donald Trump a secret, anything, I do think it comes down to his influence in the ballot box. As what you and John were talking about at the top of the show, when you look at Trump's influence and intro Republican Party politics, the voters are still clearly more with him than certainly against him and more with him than there with any other individual leader.

And one of the big challenges that we outline in the book, for Republicans who are uncomfortable with Trump, or privately, even sharply critical of him is how do you try to lead the party in a direction that is distinct from sort of Trump's day-to-day edict, but that doesn't lead directly into conflict with him?

I think what you heard in Lindsey Graham's voice on that tape, the kinds of things that we quote, in the book, him saying on that day, there was this hope that it would just kind of happen organically, right? It's the same hope that Mitch McConnell expressed on the night of the January 6th attack. Trump has discredited himself and the public can all see that now.

It turns out that a whole lot of the public still doesn't see that today.

COOPER: Alex, I want to play another clip of Senator Graham from that day.


GRAHAM: He's misjudged the passion, he plays the TV game and he went too far here.

That rally didn't help, talking about primarying Liz [Cheney]. He created a sense of revenge.


COOPER: Do you think that sense of revenge has abated at all?

BURNS: No, it certainly has not. And when you look at how Trump was chosen to engage in the 2022 midterm elections, so much of it is driven by personal retribution, taking vengeance on people like Liz Cheney who broke with him over the 2020 election and the insurrection, taking vengeance, even on someone like Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia. He is no moderate Republican, no critic of Donald Trump, but he wouldn't try to overturn the results of a free and fair election.


And so politically, he is dead to Donald Trump. I think it's very, very important, Anderson in that clip we just heard. You hear Lindsey Graham, saying something that is very similar to what we report elsewhere in the book, Kevin McCarthy said in the aftermath of January 6th, which is drawing a straight line between irresponsible rhetoric, an actual act of violence, and that is one of those dynamics that in those days, Republican Party leaders were willing to acknowledge and really wrestle with, and maybe even try to do something about.

Today, they just simply won't even engage that dynamic as a question.

COOPER: I want to play what the former President said on January 6 about Congresswoman Cheney that Senator Graham was actually referencing. Let's play that.


DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got to get rid of the weak Congress people, the ones that aren't any good, the Liz Cheney's of the world, we've got to get rid of them. We've got to get rid.


COOPER: So he talked about that -- that created a sense of revenge.

MARTIN: Yes, I mean, I think Anderson, I think that's a crucial moment. Not only in January 6th, not only in this book, but I think in recent American history. You know, singling out the daughter of the former Vice President by name at a rally that would lead to the storming and attempted, you know, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol that day.

Obviously, was it Liz Cheney ever since then? And you heard Senator Graham on tape, he was not alone. A lot of lawmakers heard Trump mention Cheney by name, and were appalled that he would do that before a crowd that turned out to be a mob, and it put people's lives in jeopardy. It certainly put Liz Cheney's life in jeopardy. She now has to have security service because of the threats against her as we detail in the book.

And so I think, you know, a lot of the sort of climate that the G.O.P. has sort of fostered today, you can really trace back to that speech Trump gave the morning of January 6th, and I think what has happened is a lot of people in the party's Old Guard thought that that would be the trigger, that would be it.

Finally, it would be okay to walk away from Trump, the party would have had enough. And it just turns out that those leaders were wrong. They didn't get their own voters, their voters were not tired of Trump, and they are still happily in his embrace today.

BURNS: And Anderson, it was just it was just moments after that speech at the Capitol, just a short while after that Liz Cheney, after evacuating from the House turns to a colleague and says, "We need to impeach the son of a bitch." And I think that she was probably surprised, and not long after that, to find how few other Republicans were willing to join her.

COOPER: Yes, that's for sure. Alex burns, Jonathan Martin, fascinating reporting as always. Thank you.

Just ahead, a massive new aid package for Ukraine, featuring money for weapons, medicine, and more is expected to pass sometime tonight. We'll have the latest on that and what's in it, as well as a live report on the fighting in Ukraine.

Also some gripping new video of a defiant 21-year-old medic inside that massive steel plant in Mariupol, she says they will fight to the end.

Plus new dash camera video of the arrest of the fugitive inmate Casey White and new details on what he and the Corrections officer were doing before they were caught and she died after authorities say she sustained a self-inflicted gunshot wound.


COOPER: Tonight, the House is expected to pass a massive Ukraine aid bill worth nearly $40 billion. It would then go to the Senate, of course, and then eventually reach President Biden's desk. It is meant to provide training and weapons to Intelligence to Ukrainian forces, also money for refugee assistance, housing, public health, and medical support. It is obviously an enormous amount of aid and it does have bipartisan support.

Voting on the bill in the House comes on a day when lawmakers heard new and alarming testimony about the latest U.S. Intelligence on Vladimir Putin's intentions. The bottom line according to the Director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines, the war is likely to drag on and make it a lot worse.


AVRIL HAINES, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: The uncertain nature of the battle which is developing into a war of attrition, combined with the reality that Putin faces a mismatch between his ambitions and Russia's current conventional military capabilities, likely means the next few months could see us moving along a more unpredictable and potentially escalatory trajectory.


COOPER: The Director of National Intelligence also said there are indications that Vladimir Putin could eventually declare Martial Law in Russia, but she pointed out it's difficult to predict what may happen next.

Today, we also heard more defiance from Ukrainian fighters. This video is of a 21-year-old woman, a combat medic inside that massive steel plant in the port city of Mariupol.

Her message, the plants defenders will fight to the last.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Can I say that I will shoot the knees of those who spread information that I am already gone? Guys, we are at war here. I will outlive all of you. Mariupol, well, the only thing I can say is that we're holding on.

As long as they are here, we're fighting to the last.

Stars burn up and we will live forever, guys, just like Mariupol, Ukraine, it's forever. Everything will be fine. Everything will be Ukraine.


COOPER: More from the plant as well tonight and we warn you the images are graphic. Photos believed to be of soldiers holed up in that steel plant. They were posted on a public channel on Telegram. You can see some are missing limbs. Conditions are clearly unsanitary.

The Deputy Commander today said that many of the soldiers inside the plant are badly wounded. Also top aide to President Zelenskyy said there still about a hundred civilians trapped inside the plant is well.

Further west in Ukraine, along the Black Sea coast in the south, more images tonight of the damage being done by Russian attacks, this is the City of Odessa. It is or it was a shopping center.


A new U.N. report states that more than eight million Ukrainians are now internally displaced. It's almost one in five of Ukraine's entire population before the war, many fleeing from the intense fighting in the east and that's where we begin tonight's reporting.

Joining us from Kramatorsk, our senior international correspondent, Sam Kiley.

So Russia is now reported to have used hypersonic missiles in attacks on Odessa. What are you learning on how big of a possible game changer that might be in this conflict?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think these hypersonic weapons are new. They are the first wartime use of this very spectacular new technology, super supersonic, effectively weapons that are pretty impossible to bring down using the sort of anti- aircraft missiles that the Ukrainians have, or indeed, the United States have. So a very worrying development that the confirmation that they've used these weapons.

They claim to have used them in the past, the issue will be the volume of them, and the accuracy. Now, we don't know whether they were aiming at what they hit in Odessa. There have been more accurate hits around the country occasionally by cruise missiles. But there's been an awful lot of very inaccurate use of precision weapons. And of course, lots of dumb bombs here indicating really that the depth of the Russian Armed Forces are not as strong as they might have hoped. And that's certainly not what Putin had been told. And what they're coming up against on the other side, though, in

Ukraine is no lack of depth, Anderson in the passion. We heard from that 21-year-old medic there, and I've been out in the frontline talking to other young people who've answered the call to arms for their country.



KILEY: Oh, it's a bunny.


KILEY: Bunny is a tank.

ALEX: Yes. So it's -- bunny is a tank.

KILEY: He's got quite a carrot.

ALEX: Yes.

KILEY (voice over): Bunny has got a very big stick. This T80 tank was built two years ago and was until March in the vanguard of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

ALEX: So down below, you see now the loader. It's also slightly modernized to shoot more like advanced and like better rounds. It can shoot guided missiles.

KILEY (voice over): Alex (ph) was on a sniper team when he discovered Bunny, stuck and abandoned in a field in March, eight days into Russia's assault. Within days, the tank was back in action against Russians.

ALEX: This is like my personal tank. I am tank commander and tank owner.

KILEY (voice over): In March, he says the tank destroyed 24 Russian vehicles and two tanks.

ALEX: We are fighting like new regime. So, here we already destroyed three or four enemy tanks, like we have three confirmed and four is like not fully confirmed that it was our kill.

KILEY (voice over): That was in the previous couple of days when Russian forces tried to break through Ukraine's lines in the bitter battle for the east.

ALEX: Showing like the thermal side.

KILEY (voice over): Alex isn't a professional soldier. He's a software engineer who lived in the now smashed IT hub of Kharkiv. His home has been destroyed.

Bunny is being serviced as the battle rages a few miles away. Burning fields encroach on the tanks hideout. The frontline in Ukraine is hundreds of miles long.

KILEY (on camera): For many Ukrainian soldiers on this frontline, there is a sense that perhaps the Russians haven't yet bought their full destructive power to bear, but they expect to find out this week.

KILEY (voice over): Russia's artillery is relentless, and Putin's tanks amassing. This army of volunteers is expecting a hard Russian push.

Anna (ph) is 22. She has been a soldier for a month and now she is a driver in a reconnaissance unit.

ANNA, UKRAINIAN FIGHTER: There is a lot of opportunities to be killed.

KILEY (voice over): She just graduated from university.

ANNA: That seems that makes me angriest is the raped children and women.

KILEY (on camera): Is that something that you're afraid of happening to you?

ANNA: I can't say that I'm afraid of something like that. I'm afraid to be not useful for my country, for my people.

KILEY (voice over): This is what being useful here means, killing Russians, Russians Anna's age.

But this is a war thrust upon Ukrainians. Anna works with Vlad, a poet, author, publisher, and war vet.

KILEY (on camera): And reconnaissance is highly dangerous work. You've lost many comrades, friends.

(VLAD, UKRAINIAN FIGHTER speaking in foreign language.)

KILEY (voice over): Vlad said, "Since 2014, so many of my friends, people I knew, comrades have died. So far the people I came with since the beginning of the latest invasion have not died, and I'm very happy, it's cool. These people are still fighting. They're already in charge of units, it's awesome. The best of the best are here."


His books are dark fantasies set in this war with Russia, an all too rich source of material.


COOPER: Sam, it is amazing the guy who has that personal tank that he basically just kind of rehabbed himself and brought back to the fight. From the people you spoke with, do they talk about how long they expect to be fighting? How long they expect this war to continue?

KILEY: Well, these young people, the new ones, the people who are new to the fight, know that those who are more veterans like Vlad there have been fighting on and off since 2014. So they know in this country, as you know very well yourself when you came here as frequently now, Anderson, people have been fighting since 2014.

This is not a new war, it's an escalation of the war, that they were already engaged is the attitude that the Ukrainians take. But what they do now have which they didn't have in 2014, is the help and training of NATO forces over previous years, the substantial amounts of new weapons that are coming in that will be arriving at these important frontlines, momentarily. And of course, a lot of those tank killing equipment has also been strategically important and used at a tactical level, and we're also seeing the Ukrainians pushing back substantially around the City of Kharkiv, they've got a counterattack there driving the Russian forces almost back to the Ukrainian-Russian border.

And indeed, we've now got reports that the Russians are having to race reinforcements to that location to try to protect their supply line. So this whole battle still hangs in the balance. I think that's also why we're seeing these worrying signals coming from Intelligence in the United States, because the reaction of Putin to being put on a back foot could indeed, ultimately make him more dangerous.

There's always the threat of nuclear power hanging over these young people, as well as everybody else in the country. So the future for the young here, as they come out of university, come out of high school is in the Army. They don't really look any further than that at the moment -- Anderson.

COOPER: Sam Kiley, be careful. Thank you.

Now to Kaitlan Collins in Washington. Kaitlan, I assume the White House agrees with the comments from the Director of National Intelligence that the war could get more unpredictable and worse these next few months.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, but the other big question is what does that mean? Because unpredictable, but escalating is obviously of great concern for them. And so what officials are really trying to figure out right now is what Putin's next move is going to be?

And some of the things that they've raised is potentially having him declare Martial Law or maybe try to intercept some of these shipments of weapons that are going into Ukraine from the United States and other nations.

Obviously, those have been critical, and some U.S. officials have speculated about why Putin hasn't targeted those more directly in the last several months or so. They're looking out for him to do that.

Potentially, they also have other questions about whether or not he tries to retaliate for the economic sanctions in a significant way. The ones that have only increased not just from the United States, but also from European nations, as well. And I think Anderson, one other question they have is what he is going to do to achieve what he wants to achieve on the ground.

Does that require some sort of full mobilization of forces from Russia? That was something that they were kind of looking for in the speech that he delivered on Monday and he did announce that, but it is still something that they could predict could potentially happen in the next several weeks.

COOPER: There's also the nearly $40 billion emergency aid package to Ukraine that Congress is now voting on tonight. What's the latest on that vote?

COLLINS: It's hard to overstate what a massive package this is, Anderson. $40 billion, which is $7 billion more than what the White House had initially asked for when they said they believe they need about $33 billion.

And so when and if this passes the House, which we were assured by House Democrats who met with President Biden earlier that it will pass the House tonight, and then you'll see the Senate looking to take it up quickly.

But once that final passage happens, and it makes its way over here to the White House, it'll be over $50 billion in spending that Congress is authorized to basically mainly arm Ukraine. You can see there are other means here where it's going to economic assistance or humanitarian assistance. Those are things that Ukraine has struggled greatly with, but looking at for military equipment alone, they felt the need to boost that from what the White House had initially asked for.

And this isn't just something that Democrats are in favor of. This is a pretty bipartisan issue. And you heard Senator Lindsey Graham predicting earlier there will likely be more of these because in his view, he said defeating Putin is priceless.

COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, appreciate it. Thanks.

Next, there is breaking news in the capture of escaped Alabama inmate, Casey White. Indiana Police just released dash cam video of his arrest and new details revealed about what he and the Corrections officer he was with had on them on their 10 days on the run.



COOPER: More breaking news, just moments ago police in Evansville, Indiana released dashcam video of Casey White's arrest, the man fund hunt for him and Corrections Officer Vicky White ended with a car chases you know there last night. Authority say that Vicky White died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound after they were caught.

CNN's Omar Jimenez has new developments.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are they?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right there. Here.


OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The final moments of the manhunt heard through police dispatch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're calling into 911.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Only one shot was fired.

DAVE WEDDING, SHERIFF, VANDERBURGH COUNTY, INDIANA: The female suspect shot herself. The male suspect gave up.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): An Indiana sheriff says numerous weapons, wigs and $29,000 in cash were found inside the car.

WEDDING: There were at least four handguns semi automatics, nine millimeter. So any one of these weapons could have been used to ambush our officers.


JIMENEZ (voice-over): Police chased the pair in southern Indiana after their car was spotted in a motel parking lot by an Evansville police officer.

WEDDING: Members of the U.S. Task Force basically rammed the vehicle and pushed it into a ditch and we later found out had they not done that, the fugitive was going to engage in a shootout with law enforcement.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The fugitive Casey White was driving. Vicky White was found in the car and died just hours later, after law enforcement said she shot herself as the pursuit ended.

WEDDING: She was unconscious with a gunshot wound to her head and the male suspect gave up without incident.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Tuesday, Casey White waived his extradition hearing in Indiana saying he wanted to go back to Alabama.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we bring him back. He will immediately go before the judge and transported directly to the Department of Corrections.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The pair who are not related disappeared from an Alabama jail April 29th, after Vicky White told colleagues she was taking the inmate Casey White to the courthouse for a mental health evaluation. They never got there. And no such evaluation had been scheduled. Authorities later found her patrol car abandoned in the shopping center parking lot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She arranged purchase the getaway car. She sold her house, got her hands on cash. You know she went shopping bulk clothes for him. You know she just obviously put the plan together.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Then the payer fled in a pickup truck which was later spotted at a car wash in Indiana, then transferred to a Cadillac which was spotted about a week later at a nearby motel.

(on-camera): Sheriff, do you have any idea what they were doing here for a week?

WEDDING: Well, I think he said that he was just trying to find a place to hide out, lay low. And they thought they driven long enough but they wanted to stop for a while, get their bearings straight and then figure out their next place to travel.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): The manager at the motel said he didn't recognize them when law enforcement showed him their photos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guys they were looking nobody was here under that name. So we do not know whether they stayed at my hotel or not.

WEDDING: There's a lot of questions that won't be answered until we have a much deeper investigation.


COOPER: Omar Jimenez joins us now from Evansville, Indiana. So I understand there's been additional body cam video released by the Evansville Police Department tonight.

JIMENEZ: Yes, Anderson. So this newest body camera video shows officers responding to the crash itself trying for an excruciating at least over five minutes to try and get Vicky White out of this mangled vehicle which as we know law enforcement rammed it at the end of this particular chase. Now according to law enforcement at this time, she had already shot herself and you even here in the audio of this body camera video and the officer first walks up. Another one tells him she's still got the gun in her hand and points down to it. When they eventually are able to get her out of this vehicle, that's when they begin performing medical procedures but as we now know she later was declared dead and her body was completely limp at the time and with that death declaration her true motivation for masterminding this as the Lauderdale County Sheriff put it may have died with her.

Casey White made it out of that particular crash with minor bruising. His extradition to Alabama though may mark the end officially of what has been a more than 10-day saga on the run, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, Omar Jimenez, appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up, we returned to John King of the wall and his primary day results are coming in from West Virginia where polls have closed the state that's testing the endorsement power the former president up to the minute vote totals, next.


[20:42:25] COOPER: Returning back to the primary matches today as we await results from West Virginia and Nebraska polls closed in West Virginia last hour and polls in Nebraska will close in just a couple of minutes in today's primaries. We'll also give another sign of just how much of a hole the former president has over the GOP in the weight of his endorsement.

CNN chief national correspondent, John King is at the magic wall in Washington. So let's check in with West Virginia again. What's the latest?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The latest Anderson is that the Trump back candidate Congressman Alex Mooney has opened up, you see an 11 point lead there over the other Republican incumbent David McKinley, now it's the first time this primary season we have two House incumbents running against each other. That's because of the post census reapportionment West Virginia lost his seat.

So you see right now, remember, this was one of Trump's best states. He got 68, 69% of the vote against Joe Biden in West Virginia. He is incredibly popular. He endorsed Alex Mooney. The district is here in the northern part of the state here. Mooney has pulled ahead it was back and forth very early on, but he's had a lead as 3,500 votes and some change. But we got -- we're not quite to the halfway mark yet. So we'll have to keep counting the votes there as we go forward.

Here's the big dividing line, McKinley voted for the Biden bipartisan infrastructure bill, McKinley voted for the independent commission to look into the January 6 attacks. Donald Trump didn't like either of those votes. So he back Mooney that's what we're watching play out tonight. The state's Republican governor, most of the Republican establishment is behind Congressman McKinley, who wears that bipartisan infrastructure vote by the way, Anderson is a badge of honor back home, he says it's going to bring billions, it's going to bring jobs, but Mooney says he shouldn't have done it.

Joe Manchin, the Democratic senator also from McKinley, Trump for Mooney at the moment, Trump had a good week last week in the Ohio primary at the moment he's doing well in West Virginia, but we'll keep counting.

COOPER: Did the either of these candidates have a geographical advantage going into it since it's a newly formed district?

KING: You would have to say that McKinley does in the sense that if you go back to the old districts, Mooney's district did something like this. It was down here, there were three and they cut it to two Mooney's district went down here and had this part here. But this part more than about 60%, if you will, of the new district was in McKinley's old district. So you'd have to say geographically he's campaigned. He's won those votes before but remember, Trump especially you want every county Trump won every county in West Virginia. So the Trump endorsement helps even if this part here, Mooney's running for the first time.

COOPER: Yes, John King, thanks so much. Up next, more than the new audio tape of Republican Senator Lindsey Graham talking about the former president on January 6, about the insurrection. We'll get reaction from David Gergen, who served four presidents and who has a new book on leadership. Something that you could argue is big focus right now. We'll be right back.



COOPER: We got a lot of breaking news tonight tied to politics. We continue to watch the Republican primary races results in West Virginia and Nebraska. There's also the new audio tapes for another high profile Republican Capitol Hill Lindsey Graham sharing his own thoughts about the former president January 6.

Joining us for his perspective on all this is CNN senior political analyst David Gergen who served four presidents on both sides of the aisle. He's also the author of a new book, Hearts Touched With Fire, How Great Leaders Are Made.

It's great to see you, David.



GERGEN: I'm glad to see you back safely.

COOPER: The book is about leadership as these primary results come in West Virginia. We're seeing whether the former president for better or worth -- better or worse still has the pole in the Republican Party, still has the say. There are a lot of Americans who look at him and say he is a great leader. I'm mean you've just written a book about great leaders what are they not getting?


GERGEN: Well, he's not a great leader, I mean he is a leader there's no question about that. But I think he's a bad leader. I think he's leaving his people into, he's leading the country, especially into a very bad place. And, you know, we look to leaders to as more responsible adults, and he's simply not. You know, there are some things, some strengths he brings to the table. He's tough. You know, and I think in comparison to Joe Biden, and he comes across this tougher and that's what some people are looking for now. And I do think that he is knows how to seize on issues and blow them up.

But in terms of what we look for in a leader, it's much more about character. We also look to the courage question and we look at a capabilities or the C's (INAUDIBLE).

COOPER: Where is the heart touched by fire come from?

GERGEN: That's very interesting question. You know, Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. who came from a very prominent family in Boston. And when Lincoln issued his call for volunteers, at first, the first call for volunteers, Holmes could have ducked, it was easy for him to get out of it, just like Teddy Roosevelt's father got out of it, you know. But instead, he volunteered. And he was grievously wounded three times left for villa for dead on the battlefield the last time out. And 20 years later, he gave a speech looking back about what the Civil War representative for his generation. And he said, you know, it is given demand to live the passions of his time. And we live those passions, and we were fortunate enough to have hearts touched by fire. That's where this (INAUDIBLE) come from. So it is really meaningful quote to me.

COOPER: In terms of leadership, I mean, how do you see where we are now, in this country?

GERGEN: I think we're in an unsustainable path. It's compared to being in a car on the edge of a cliff, and middle of the night with it with a rainy and no headlights, and --

COOPER: Such be awful.

GERGEN: Well, it did, right? That's pretty well, where we are, I think we can go with that cliff very easily. You know, authoritarianism comes early earlier than some people suspect. And, you know, I think this the very idea that in 2024, we may have two men running against each other Biden and Trump, who would both be in their 80s if elected, that it too is enough to say, well, what are we doing here? You shouldn't be 80 years old, running the country. Here, they're one of many great things you can do.

But as you know, so well, Anderson, the presidency is a very, very complex place, and you have to have good judgment, you have to have thought about issues before. You have to have so you have to have a sense of moral purpose, and leadership. And I just don't, I really don't think the people who are in charge now, who are going to be in our 80s, not just in the White House, but in the Congress. I think it's time to pass the baton.

COOPER: You write about this in the in the book.

GERGEN: Right.

COOPER: You write about passing the torch --


COOPER: -- to the next generation, millennials, Gen Z?

GERGEN: Well, I really believe I've had the experience of working in classrooms now teaching classrooms for maybe a quarter of a century. And what I've seen there has really given me encouragement about the long term prospects for the country. I'm a short term pessimist, but a long term optimistic. And one of the reasons I say that, yes, I know the millennials there -- many people think they're arrogant or elitist, or they, you know, they are snobs that they have had been privileged all the way along. And they have low -- they don't have much sort of drive. But that's true, some. But I must tell you now, I think there are two streams of people who are coming in who are millennials, young millennials, who really impressed me, one of the group of veterans coming back from Afghanistan in Iraq. I work closely trying to help recruit veterans to run for office on both sides of the aisle with an outside group. And I'm seeing terrific people coming back through the veterans group, they remind me so much of the World War II generation, which to me, that's when I went to Washington, they were in charge, and I've been in love with that generation ever since.

But the other group is more of a surprise and that is the young people, especially in this country, young black women have taken the moral high ground. They're really showing us the way. And I think I and I don't agree with their politics on a lot of issues. But I really salute their drive their ambition for change.

COOPER: Do you believe President Biden should run again in 2024?

GERGEN: Sadly, you know, I think for a variety of reasons he should not. I just, I don't think either Trump or Biden should be running. My preference is run toward Biden, of course. But nonetheless, I do think it's time for a younger person. I think there are things that Joe Biden can do that will be extremely valuable. He can be on hand he can give advice. He can travel the world and do things like that for a different for a new president.


But I really -- but given the complexity of that office if your judgment is not keen you shouldn't be there. And look, I just turned 80. And I can tell you, you missed a step. You're on it. You're not quite as sharp as you once were. And I think that's a real problem to be in the Oval Office. I don't think the country ought to be faced with that.

COOPER: I just about turned 55. I feel the same way.


COOPER: Well, just about myself. I mean, I've already noticing like, oh, wow. Oh, I don't know about that.

GERGEN: Yes, yes. But if --

COOPER: (INAUDIBLE) I live this long.

GERGEN: Yes. But it does make a difference. And look, I think the country is basically in good place. I think the people in this country are much more together. And I think if you look, if you talk to historians like Jon Meacham, for example, he'll tell you look, we've had existential threats before four or five times. And all in all of those situations whether the birth of the Republican, Washington was in real trouble he lost for the first six out of eight battles. Or you go on to you can even skip over to the Great Depression or World War II, though we did well and all of this. The one we screwed up with a Civil War. COOPER: (INAUDIBLE).

GERGEN: And they're there -- I think that but overall, that should give us encouragement. We need to pull together and live together and listen to each other in new ways. And I think we can pull the country out of this mess.

COOPER: We'll end on that note, David Gergen, thank you so much. The book is Hearts Touch With Fire Of Great Leaders Are Made, it is out now. David Gergen, it's great to see you.

GERGEN: Thank you. You're very kind.

COOPER: Up next, an update on the primary races in West Virginia, Nebraska both testing the former president's grip on the Republican Party. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Quick look at the primary rate In West Virginia where polls have closed. We have more results. So far the Trump back Congressman Alex Mooney is leading in the West Virginia second congressional race over David McKinley with 55% of precincts in. Alex Mooney has 51.7% of the vote David McKinley 38.1%.


We'll continue to follow the numbers as they come in. Let's hand it over to Laura Coates in "CNN TONIGHT." Laura.