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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Protests Across US After Supreme Court Overturns Roe; Interview With Rep. Cori Bush (D-MO); Protests Across U.S. After Supreme Court Overturns Roe; Supreme Court Strikes Down New York Handgun Law, Expanding Concealed Carry Rights; Jan. 6 Cmte Chair: Trump Documentary Footage Will Appear In Future Hearings; CNN Heroes Salutes Saturday, June 25th At 10PM ET. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired June 24, 2022 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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AC 360 begins right now.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
In cities across the country tonight, there are people in the streets including as you can see at the Supreme Court in the nation's capital.
Today, the Court did what a leaked draft of a majority opinion suggested it would do, it overturned Roe v. Wade taking away a national right to abortion after almost five decades.
The historic nature of today's five to four decision by the Court's conservatives cannot be emphasized enough, in part because you do not see the Court overturn precedents of this magnitude.
This is a day that many Americans no matter their political leanings likely will remember decades from now about where they were and what they were feeling when they heard the decision announced.
The headlines that many Americans will read online or in their newspapers tomorrow reflect the seismic shift that has just taken place in America. The main headline for the "Columbus Dispatch" read simply "Roe Overturned." The sub headline says "What the US Supreme Court abortion decision means for Ohio." "The Miami Herald" in Miami, the end of Roe v. Wade means anger, fear, and praise for a landmark ruling.
Already the ruling has had a huge impact, more than a quarter of states have so-called trigger laws that ban abortion. Those in Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma, Alabama, and South Dakota banned abortion after the Court's decision was announced. Within days Utah, Wyoming, and Mississippi will join them. Idaho, Tennessee, North Dakota have laws that ban abortion after 30 days of the decision. Texas is expected to ban abortion sometime after that.
And then there are 12 other states, we are going to show you them shaded in purple on a map that the pro-choice Guttmacher Institute says are either certain are likely to ban abortion based on some combination of laws previously on books or current political trends in states.
But that's just the effect today of the Supreme Court's five to four decision. What happens tomorrow and months and years from this moment, that we don't know.
In fact, many Democrats tonight are expressing concern that the decision could provide legal justification to overturn other rights secured by Supreme Court precedent, including those covering contraception and same sex marriage, and they have reason to be concerned after Justice Clarence Thomas suggested doing just that today as well.
This is what Justice Thomas wrote in a concurring opinion, "For that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court's substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell." He continues, "Because any substantive due process decision is 'demonstrably erroneous.' We have a duty to 'correct the error' established in those precedents."
In layman's terms, that means the conservative majority would revisit cases if Justice Thomas gets his way that affirmed a right to contraception, one that made same sex activity legal, and the third establishing the right of gay couples to marry.
It is certainly a lot to take in tonight. We begin with the decision itself and the reaction outside the Court.
CNN law enforcement correspondent, Whitney Wild is outside the Supreme Court Building. So what do you have been seeing and hearing from people outside the Court today?
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, what is very clear is that people who are out here protesting this opinion are angry, but they are not -- they are angry, and they're disillusioned, but they believe that this is not the end. Instead, they're going to take this effort and redirect it to the states.
So this is certainly not the conclusion, but instead, Anderson, it represents a new chapter, however angry they are about that today and they have said over and over and over that they will continue to fight.
The people here who are elated by this decision, actually say the same thing that they will continue to take their efforts to the states. So for both sides of this issue, again, this is not a conclusion, but rather, this will redirect efforts all across the country.
But let me show you a live look at what it looks like just steps from the Supreme Court.
This crowd has grown over the last several hours and there are hundreds and hundreds of people out here, Anderson. This entire crowd with the exception of a very few people. I mean, we're talking a handful of people is all people who are here to protest the opinion that came out of the Supreme Court today, and from a security standpoint, that's a little bit of a relief for law enforcement. And the reason for that is because one of the chief concerns when you have a big event like this is that protesters will clash and that will erupt.
Instead, that is not the case. This has been extraordinarily peaceful. It is noisy. There's a lot of people here, but it is very peaceful. We are not aware of any arrests. And we saw there are multiple law enforcement agencies today who said that there have not been any arrests related to this, to people who are reacting to the ruling.
However, as night falls, law enforcement will continue to be on edge because they know that a crowd like this could bring out lone wolves -- people -- domestic violent extremists, people who are inclined to violence who see an opportunity here and are looking for a reason, looking for a justification to carry out an act of violence.
So Capitol Police is leaning on their law enforcement partners. They've ramped up security. They have their Civil Disturbance Unit on standby here. The Metropolitan Police Department also has their Civil Disturbance Unit ready to go.
So Anderson, that as a security seen here. Back to you.
COOPER: And have there been people who support the decision, I mean, with microphones, making speeches just like we're hearing speeches from people who are against this decision?
WILD: Sorry, can you repeat the top of your question? I didn't quite hear it. It's really loud here.
COOPER: Have you seen in this time -- you said there had been some people there who were in support of the decision, have they been making speeches with microphones like we're hearing people now making speeches against the decision?
WILD: They haven't been. Once this opinion came out, the group here who was elated by this decision was in support of the opinion, didn't stay out much longer after that, Anderson.
There were people here who were hugging. They were jumping for joy. But mostly, they left after about an hour and a half or two hours or so. So once that group cleared out, there were a lot more people here who are out here protesting this opinion, and the speeches have touched on a range of issues before really taking this opportunity to highlight what they believe is the possible slippery slope here, to talk about other Civil Rights issues. And again, take this opportunity to apply what they've seen out of the Supreme Court to other concerns they have more broadly when we're talking about criminal justice reform issues and Civil Rights issues as well -- Anderson.
COOPER: Whitney Wild, appreciate it. Thank you.
Abortion is right now illegal in several states, including Alabama, it happened today.
I'm joined now by a doctor in that state who has performed abortions there, Dr. Yashica Robinson of the Alabama Women's Wellness Center.
Dr. Robinson, I appreciate you being with us tonight. Should I now refer to you as a former abortion provider in Alabama?
DR. YASHICA ROBINSON, ALABAMA WOMEN'S WELLNESS CENTER: Well, thank you for having me.
I still refer to myself as an abortion provider. We still have a lot of thinking to do around how I will continue to provide the care that my patients need, but that is very essential to who I am and what matters to me. So please, still refer to me as an abortion provider. I refer to myself as an abortion provider.
I was talking to one of my colleagues earlier today, and I was just saying it is very hard as an abortion provider and knowing how much I care about my patients to sit in front of them right now and I'm having to think and think about what it is that I can do for them because of the state that I'm living in and the state that they are in.
You know, I know how to provide care, I'm a physician, but I don't know a lot of the legal ins and outs. And so we just have to make sure that we continue to operate within the law, and find how we continue to give patients the care.
COOPER: But just so I'm clear, I mean, as of today, there would be no more abortions being provided, correct, in the state?
ROBINSON: That's correct.
As of this morning, we did not get the "all clear" that we had gotten on previous decision days, so we knew immediately that we had to cease providing abortion care. So unfortunately, in our clinic, we had several patients that had come, we were only able to take care of a few of the patients who had showed up to our clinic.
I didn't leave this building until very late last night, and I know that there was someone in my parking lot at 3:30. And one of the things I did was wind the camera back because I wanted to know if that patient was taken care of in that group of people who were the first people that I provided care for today. I'm just hoping that they were.
COOPER: So you had a patient waiting at 3:30 in the morning in the parking lot in order to get an abortion before this ruling came down? ROBINSON: That's correct. We were about to leave the building and I checked the camera as I always do before I walked outside of the building and I could see parking lot lights in the lot across the parking lot from where my car was parked.
And so I spoke to my husband and let him know, and so he took a look at the camera and first, he started to pick up the phone to call the police and then he said he wound the camera back and saw how the car had pulled in. He says no, I think that's a patient that's here because we have our patients that come in as early -- come to start getting here as early as seven so that as soon as we can open our doors and provide care at eight, we can start to see patients.
COOPER: What are the options now if you are a woman in Alabama, seeking an abortion, what would you tell your patients?
ROBINSON: Well, unfortunately because we are still trying to look at the law and look at this decision the way it was handed down, we're concerned about some aiding and abetting language that is on the books here.
Well, I don't know exactly what is okay for me to say, but we're telling patients that they deserve care, that there are people here that really care about them, and that there are numbers that they can call and that they shouldn't give up, that they need to call these numbers and continue to reach out so that they can find the people who can provide care.
Because there are states that are still providing abortion care. Unfortunately, my state is not one of them.
COOPER: I hope, it is okay for me to say to you, but I can hear the emotion in your voice. I mean, this is obviously a difficult day for you. I mean, this is -- can you just talk about that a little bit, about what it is you see on a daily basis, the stories you are told by the people who come to you and why you have that reaction today.
ROBINSON: This has been a horrible day for us here in our clinic. Not only do I care about my patients, but everybody and every member of my staff really care about our patients.
And so first, we all cried, and then we had to gather ourselves to decide how we were going to take care of these patients in what we do. I was hesitant to take this interview today, because I didn't know if I could get through it.
But what we did was we divided the patients up and those who we had already started to care for, who had already received medication and we felt that it would be malpractice not to complete their procedures, we put them into one room.
We took the people who were here for first visits, and we had about 15 people that come for first visits, and some of them had traveled from as far as Texas, we put them into another room. The patients who had signed in thinking they were having procedures today, who we had not started, and that we could not care for, we put them into a separate room and we talked to them all separately to let them know what we could do.
So the people who were first visits, we told them that we would not be able to provide any care for them and we apologized profusely. Many of them broke down and cried and we cried with them, you know. Some people they were not at all surprised. They had already been to other places and couldn't get care.
And so they thanked us for the information that we provided, and they went on their way. One couple of in particular, she was very thankful. She says that we were really nice to her from the first day that she called and she walked out the door. Her husband and I knew she would be okay because we had a partner, she had means and she looked like she would have no problem traveling to the next state. That's what she told me she planned to do.
And then the people who were there for -- who thought that they would have their procedure was the most devastating thing to tell them that after they had waited 48 hours, that I would not be able to care for them because our doors don't open early enough and we had not started early enough, unfortunately, it's just the way it was.
COOPER: Dr. Yashica Robinson, I appreciate that you agreed to do the interview because your perspective is important. I appreciate talking to you tonight. Thank you.
ROBINSON: All right, thank you.
COOPER: As we mentioned earlier, the political ramifications of this day were apparent even before the decision was announced.
Speaking from the White House, President Biden called it a "sad day" for the country, his words, and said that the health and life of women in this nation are now at risk.
He went on to say this fall, Roe is on the ballot.
I'm joined now by our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins.
Kaitlan, talk more about what President Biden said.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the White House Anderson really had been bracing for this decision ever since that draft opinion leaked. So actually, when the ruling came down today that they were overturning Roe versus Wade, the White House already had a speech written for President Biden and they made a few changes to it and he came out and he called it a somber day for the nation. And he said that he believes now women's lives and their health is at risk because of this decision by the Supreme Court.
And as he was talking about it, he really talked about the makeup of the Supreme Court, the fact that for decades, Justices who had been appointed by Republican Presidents had not challenged his ruling, not overturned it, but of course, he invoked someone he doesn't often invoke by name, his predecessor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was three Justices named by one President, Donald Trump, who are the core of today's decision to upend the scales of justice and eliminate a fundamental right for women in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: After that, Anderson, he vowed to do everything he can, of course that is limited when it comes to protecting abortion rights.
COOPER: Yes, their supporters are urging him to take some sort of executive action. What does that -- what would that actually entail?
COLLINS: Well, no executive action that he takes can restore the right that was taken away when this was overturned today, Roe versus Wade, but the White House says that they are doing some things like encouraging the Justice Department to prepare legal challenges if states tried to go after women who are going out of their state if they can't get an abortion and they are and travel across state lines to another one where they can get one.
They are also trying to eliminate barriers when it comes to that abortion medication that people get can in the mail.
They're taking steps like that, but nothing that is really going to significantly change or move the needle here. So the White House really is looking to Congress.
And you heard President Biden today, urging voters to get out and elect more pro-choice lawmakers so they could codify Roe versus Wade into law. But Anderson, I should note that as the President was looking ahead to November, conventional wisdom has shown that Democrats are expected to lose seats in the midterm election, right now, not gain them.
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlin Collins, appreciate it.
Perspective now on this day from CNN chief legal analyst and former Federal prosecutor, Jeffrey Toobin, and former Democratic State Senator of Texas, Wendy Davis.
Senator Davis, the country obviously suspected this ruling was coming, you did, based on the leaked draft, still seeing it officially handed down, what goes through your mind?
WENDY DAVIS (D), FORMER TEXAS STATE SENATOR: You know, this morning, when the decision came out, Anderson, my reaction to it was as a mother and a grandmother of two daughters and two granddaughters, it wasn't as a former elected official or reproductive rights champion, it was understanding on a very personal level, what this was going to mean for them, and what it's going to mean for our granddaughters and daughters across this country in states where abortion will now be illegal.
And I know I'm not alone, I know that there are women and men who are waking up to the sobering reality of what this is going to mean in the future of our daughters and granddaughters' lives, their ability to realize their dreams, their ability to continue the march for full equality that my generation and generations before started, and it is just a tremendously sobering moment in this country's history and for all of us, personally.
COOPER: Jeff, you've been saying for a long time, this would eventually happen. What stood out to you from the decision?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the breadth of it. You know, there were various ways that the Court could have upheld the Mississippi law, that was at issue in this specific case.
But Justice Alito's opinion and for the majority, for the five Justices who wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade, you know, made clear that all abortions could be banned in any state they chose to do, and that is sort of maximalist position that Justice Alito took, and even more so, what I was struck by was Justice Thomas's concurring opinion, where he teed up, where he thought the Court was going after this.
As you mentioned earlier, you know, to allow bans on contraceptives, to allow bans on consensual sexual activity, and ultimately to reverse the permission for -- the guarantee of same sex marriage.
This is the dream come true of the conservatives who have been pushing the Court for decades. They've been frustrated, and now they have won an absolutely total victory.
COOPER: Yes, Senator Davis, I mean, Justice Alito, in that leaked opinion, had said, you know, this wouldn't necessarily relate to other rights that have been recognized over the last, you know, few decades.
Justice Thomas certainly went right to the heart of that today.
DAVIS: He did. You know, I'll give him credit for being transparent, because we all know that's where this is headed and I think we need to be very thoughtful about how proactive we can be in both red and blue states to protect some of those rights at the state level, understanding that that's what's coming down the pipeline from contraceptive care, to IVF treatments, to gay marriage.
If we are talking about liberty and privacy rights that have been embedded in the Constitution as interpreted by prior Supreme Courts that have now been completely upended, all of those rights are on the table and we've got to be incredibly thoughtful and hardworking to ensure that we protect them.
COOPER: Jeff, I just want to put it on the screen what Justice Thomas wrote, because there were a lot of conservatives in the wake of that leaked document, saying, well, look, of course, the Court is not going to go after gay marriage. It's actually a pretty popular decision. It's not as controversial as abortion. Just as Thomas said, for that reason, in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court's substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence and Obergefell because any substantive due process decision is demonstrably erroneous. We have a duty to correct the error established in those precedents.
Jeff, put that into to regular language. I mean, correct the error. He is saying gay marriage is an error.
TOOBIN: Right. He is saying overturn those precedents --
COOPER: Contraception is -- the use of contraception is an error?
TOOBIN: That's right. Well Griswold versus Connecticut, a case from 1964 said that the State of Connecticut could not ban married couples from buying contraceptives.
The justification for that decision by Justice William Douglas was that there is a right to privacy implicit in the Constitution. Justice Alito's opinion very specifically says there is nothing in the Constitution that mentions the word "abortion," and there is nothing in the Constitution that mentions the word "privacy."
So the idea that any law, any decision based on the right to privacy is in jeopardy.
Now, it is true that Justice Alito did have that caveat in the opinion saying, well, this only applies to abortion. But you know, that's not how the law works, necessarily.
Precedent builds on precedent based on the implications of the decision and as Justice Thomas said, with admirable clarity and honesty, this is where the law is going because this is where the logical conclusion of where today's decision sends us.
COOPER: You know, Senator Davis, you hear now from, you know, the President and others, well, you this has to be rectified at the vote -- in the voting booth. When you look at the list of priorities that people vote on, abortion is not at the top of the list. Economy is obviously at the top of the list. Same thing for, you know, gun safety, gun control, it's not at the top of the list.
So while people may, you know, there are many people protesting in the streets, do you think this ruling will change that?
DAVIS: I do, Anderson, and here is why.
You know, until a right is taken away, and let's face it, it's the first time in our country's history that something like this has happened, that a constitutional protection was stripped away. I think so many people just didn't believe it was going to happen even after the leaked opinion. And now, we're living in that reality.
What was striking to me today, watching these protests around the country, and here in Austin, where I am, was the number of young people who came out to the streets today and it is on their shoulders really, to turn out in November in numbers that they've never turned out before and demonstrate they're upset with what is happening and reclaiming their right to have control over their own bodies.
I also want to say something about redistricting -- I'm sorry, go ahead.
COOPER: No, go ahead.
TOOBIN: Please, please.
DAVIS: I was just going to say, you know, gerrymandering has taught us to believe that our votes don't matter because districts are drawn in a way to convince us that they don't. But we have so many important statewide US Senate and gubernatorial races, my state included with our gubernatorial race and Beto O'Rourke being the Democratic candidate.
The gerrymandering can't touch those races, and it is up to us as Democrats to make sure that Independents, moderate Republicans, and Democrats come together and express our will at the ballot box and demonstrate at the statewide level our upset with this decision today and with the lawmakers who have outlawed abortions in our states.
TOOBIN: And you know, it's not just about red states. You know, when you were talking to Dr. Robinson, and Dr. Robinson talked about aiding and abetting laws. You know, one of the big issues coming out of today's decision is how much can states regulate or punish people in other states who support women in states where abortion is banned? That is a legal issue that's out there.
Plus, you know, President Biden is talking about, you know, we need to have a national codification of Roe v. Wade. If there's a Republican Congress and Republican President, they can ban it in the whole country.
COOPER: Jeff Toobin and Wendy Davis, appreciate you being on tonight, thank you.
Coming up, more on the nationwide reaction to today's divisive Supreme Court ruling and Democratic Congresswoman Cori Bush of Missouri joins us from the steps of the last remaining abortion clinic in her state, a clinic where she herself got an abortion after being raped.
COOPER: Missouri is one of more than a dozen states that have so- called trigger laws that either outlawed abortion or began the process to do so quickly once Roe was overturned.
Just minutes after today's ruling, the State's Attorney General released a statement that reads in part: "My office has yet again reinforced Missouri's dedication to protecting the sanctity of life, both born and unborn. With its Attorney General opinion, my office has effectively ended abortion in Missouri, becoming the first state in the country to do so."
Missouri's trigger law states: "No abortions shall be performed or induced upon a woman except in cases of medical emergency." However, the law does not contain an exception for rape or incest.
Missouri Congresswoman Cori Bush is an advocate for abortion rights and have been very open about her own story. When she was 17 years old, she was raped and decided to have an abortion.
She joins me now from the steps of Planned Parenthood in St. Louis, which has been the sole abortion clinic in her state.
Congresswoman, I appreciate you joining us. What is going through your mind tonight as you stand there in that location?
REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): You know, people being able to see, people in this community seeing that there is still support, you know, people getting the information that they are still able to access services, even with all the horrific, you know, news of today coming down from SCOTUS, but then also locally here in Missouri from the Attorney General.
But we have been telling people, yes, that happened. Yes, nine unelected Supreme Court Justices; yes, that decision came from them. Yes, we have this Attorney General who cares so much about life that he was also the one that was fighting against children wearing masks in school because he cares about life so much.
But we are making sure there are advocates, abortion providers, there are community members, people who are doing the work to make sure that people are still able to access care, even though as of today, in Missouri, you are not able to get an abortion.
COOPER: And just be clear in Missouri, if a teenage girl is raped, impregnated by her father, she has no options for legal abortion in the state.
BUSH: None. None. And so it makes me think about that -- and I spoke about it earlier, that 12-year-old, you know, or that 13-year- old or whatever that is pregnant through incest, or some other rape that cannot get services or that other person.
I remember being 17 and I needed an abortion, I chose to get an abortion. I made that decision at 17 after a rape, but I was able to go and pick up the phone and make an appointment and come here to this place where I stand right now, this place is where I had that abortion because it was available. The services were available. I didn't have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get it and I was able to get that done.
And I think about those that have to go through this now, wondering "How do I -- how do I -- how do I get the care that I need?" And if they don't get the information that care is still available because we have to make sure that we fix -- that we fix this part too that everybody in our community knows that there is still care available.
But for those that don't get that information. I cannot imagine right now, if I had a child standing taller than I, that I raised, that I would look into, in the face of and know that this was the child of my rapist. That should not be something forced upon him. Of course, pregnancy should not be happening in this country. It is a crime, a few metal crime of humanity, as stated and declared by the United Nations.
COOPER: How, according to the CDC, maternal mortality rates for black women in the U.S. were three times the rate for white women in 2020. You're nurse, you've been outspoken about the treatment you received during your pregnancies with your two children. How concerned are you about just the danger? This ruling is for women of color?
BUSH: I'm having a little bit of difficulty --
COOPER: I'm just saying about given the mortality rates are higher for black women in this country. How concerned are you about this ruling and what it means for black women?
BUSH: You know, when we're black women already having so many fights, right now, black women, all the fact that we the health disparities as it relates to black women, the gaps in the way that -- the way that black women are treated as it relates to health care the way that when it comes to so whether it's black, maternal health care, or just health care period. When we look at the racial wealth gap, and just we can just name a bunch of issues and black women, there's all there is always this piece, where black women are disproportionately directly impacted. And when we look at right now knowing that the report came out that black women, maternal mortality for black women, to skyrocket to 33%, 33%. So that means one in three black women are at risk for losing their life simply because Roe v. Wade was overturned.
How do we say black women and brown women and our -- and birthing people, pregnant people? How do we save them? It wasn't by the Supreme Court, and I'll continue to say it. It's a far right extremist, racist, classist, bigoted Supreme Court that's doing the bidding for these GOP members that are trying to just out Trump each other. But as they're doing that, as they're doing, that we're doing the work to make sure that their black women and brown women and pregnant people aren't getting what they need.
And so, as someone who has experienced that, as someone who knows, as someone who has been there had my own issues as it relates to, to a domestic abuser. We won't stop fighting. But in order for us to, we can't stop fighting. One way that we don't stop fighting is we keep talking about it. We put it in people's faces, and we make sure that people know this disparity exists. And this is about saving lives.
COOPER: Congresswoman Cori Bush, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
Coming up --
BUSH: Thank you.
COOPER: -- the protests continue around the country, including New York City, which you see right there. The Supreme Court also ruled on another case yesterday having to do with New York State and the right to carry a concealed gun it too is expected to have a ripple effect across the country. New York Governor Kathleen Hochul joins us next to discuss this and the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
COOPER: Following the Supreme Court decision today, CNN has found 70 protests are believed to be happening now across the nation. Groups like Planned Parenthood, Bans Off Our Bodies and Women's March among some of the groups are organizing events. These protests are expected to last throughout the weekend at least.
Our own Gary Tuchman is at the protests in New York's Washington Square Park right now. Talk about what you've been seeing Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, America's largest city. This is a very large protest, thousands of people marching down the street here in the Greenwich Village neighborhood in New York City. So far, it's been very peaceful, there are some obscenities, but has been very peaceful, no confrontations. I can tell you what's unique about what we're seeing here is that people are showing angry. They're seething. They're infuriated.
I've covered so many abortion related protests over the years. I've lost count of them. But what they've had in common, excuse me, is that Roe versus Wade has been the law of the land. And now at this moment and no longer is that makes us obviously much different. There are men, women, old, young, senior citizens, children, all kinds of people here from all over the United States because New York has a melting pot where people come from all over the U.S. and over the country. And we've seen all ages here and you see the signs, their body, their choice. Why does go the swine is dead. The hardest choice in a woman's life is not yours. Find a fight.
Quick question for you. This morning when you heard the news, what was your first thought?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very shocked, but not shocked actually, we know this is going to happen, but very, very, very disappointed (INAUDIBLE).
TUCHMAN: And that's a common word we hear here. People are extremely angry. Once again, Anderson no confrontation whatsoever, even though thousands of people marching down these narrow streets. I can't tell you I know unequivocally. There are anti-abortion activists who are here, but they're maintaining a very low profile and staying very quiet. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Gary, appreciate it. Thanks very much. At today's historic ruling, New York's Governor Kathy Hochul guaranteed abortion rights in the state saying quote, access to abortion is a fundamental human right. It remains safe, accessible and legal in New York. This comes as many abortion providers in the state are bracing for an influx of out of state patients who need the procedure and assistance. Today's ruling is not the only one that impacts New York in a big way. Yesterday, the Supreme Court struck down New York's handgun law, the law police restrictions and carrying concealed gun outside the home it is the widest expansion of gun rights in a decade.
Joining me now governor of New York, Kathy Hochul.
First of all on abortion you weren't obviously surprised by this really? What does it mean for the people in New York?
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): I'm the first woman governor in the state of New York, we had abortion legal in our state since 1970. So this is deeply personal to all of us, as the keepers of the flame. You know, we support this right. We cherish this right? And we feel for our sisters across this country will no longer have access to control over their own bodies. In fact, they'll be subjected to government mandated pregnancies. Think about what that means. So here in New York, we took action already, we've given $35 million to our existing providers so they can beef up and prepare for the influx of women coming from other states. We also I signed a package last just last week, we made sure they have immunity for our abortion providers in this state. So they're not subjected to lawsuits from states where they have personal rights of action to go after people who secure an abortion or the provider.
So we've done what we can here to become a safe harbor for women across this country, but to us personally this is devastating, this is a blow to all women but my view is, you stand up and you fight back. How do you fight back? We can complain, we'll march, Union Squares great. I love what's going on to the energy. I want to take that energy, especially if all those young people and put it into the race as we have for governor across this country.
COOPER: The reality is this is not an issue that is front and center on people's minds when they go into the voting booth. I mean, you look at all the polls, maybe it will be now after this, but when you look at all the polls, it's obviously you know, the economy is the number one issue, even things like gun control, abortion are further down on the list.
HOCHUL: That's because we've always had the right to abortion.
COOPER: You think this may change?
HOCHUL: The world has changed, the world has changed forever. The fight that my mother's generation fought and my generation my daughter's generation in her 30s, people always talk well could go away someday no one really believe (INAUDIBLE) -- COOPER: Were you surprised to hear Justice Thomas right, well, now
it's time to relook at contraception, time to look at, you know, gay relationships at marriage, for gay people?
HOCHUL: That was the most incredible overreach I have ever seen. And this will go down in history as one of the most reactionary Supreme Courts that our nation has ever encountered. And I heard the news, as I was about to go into the groundbreaking for a visitor center at Stonewall this morning, in here in New York City. And so, I talked about that, that something like gay marriage is now under assault as well, as well as the assault on women's rights. So no, this is -- I hate to say it's a double whammy. It's even beyond that.
COOPER: Right. I've talked to you about the gun rulings.
COOPER: That it was obviously not -- that that was more severe probably then than you expected. What does this mean for New York?
HOCHUL: Well, right now, my team of legal advisors and we have experts all over the country of putting together legislation. I'm calling back our legislature that's not expected to return till January, they'll be in session next week, I'm going to present to them a package of bills, work it out with them, to make sure that we strengthen our laws, because what's going to happen here is that the law enforcement will not feel a distinguish between someone who has evidence of a weapon in their pocket because you're going to commit a crime, or someone who's lawfully carrying that.
So we're going to make sure that we deal with something called sensitive places. We can restrict concealed carry, keep it away from sensitive place --
COOPER: What are sensitive places?
HOCHUL: That's a great question. We're working on that right now putting the list of, you know, gatherings over 100 people, populate parks, religious places, litigious worship, and even on comes to businesses. What I want to do, and we're going to talk about this, tell businesses that they have the right to say no concealed carry can come in. The presumption will be that unless you invite someone in with a concealed weapon, the presumption in our state we get this passed, will be that the presumption is you do not want someone. So that'll protect our business owners, because I cannot imagine a bar, restaurant establishment here in New York City that's going to feel comfortable inviting people in who are carrying guns.
So this is again, another travesty. We're prepared, we take action, we fight back and we do it two places, one legislatively with the pen. I'll be signing legislation next week, as well as at the ballot box. And I want this energy mobilized to make sure that the 36 races for governor that are up this year, we can turn this around state by state if people aren't the energy that's out there right now, gets harnessed, mobilize, raise the money support the candidates that are pro choice. COOPER: Governor Hochul, I appreciate your time tonight.
HOCHUL: Thank you.
COOPER: Thank you very much.
Up next, some of the other major headlines we're following this evening, as we wait for the House to reconvene for the January 6 hearings. I'll speak with a filmmaker of the upcoming documentary featuring interviews with the former president and his adult children. Be right back.
COOPER: The footage from a forthcoming documentary features interviews with a former president, his children could become a focus in January 6 hearings. According to the January 6 House committee chairman and Congressman Bennie Thompson, some of those clips will be included in future presentations. This comes as the filmmaker said he spoke with the former president once before the Capitol insurrection twice after. Here's one of the clips from that documentary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They thought because people showed up to their rallies, that meant they were popular. The idea that other people might be sitting at home feeling differently about it seems not to have occurred to them. They genuinely thought that must be true.
DONALD TRUMP (R) FMR PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: We won Georgia, we won Michigan, we won Pennsylvania, we won them all.
IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: As the President has said every single vote needs to be counted and needs to be heard and he campaigned for the voiceless.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's interesting to see Ivanka Trump say that her father wanted every vote to be counted, because Trump's mission in the days after the election was to stop the counting of votes.
ERIC TRUMP, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: The reality is people in this country, we're getting multiple ballots in the mail, there are thousands and thousands of people who are voting in multiple states.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no evidence whatsoever, that the voter fraud that they're claiming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But after weeks of trying to overturn the results of the election, his legal team has come up with nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far, they've lost 30 cases.
RUDY GIULLIANI, DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER: I would love to release all the information that I have. I would love to give it to you all. Except most of you wouldn't cover.
D. TRUMP: All of the legal documents and everything else, it's not even a contest, but you still need a judge that has courage. And so far, we haven't found that judge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And the filmmaker, Alex Holder joins me now.
Alex, thanks for being with us. There's been reporting that one time Trumpian named Jason Greenblatt who worked with Jared Kushner, as a Middle East peace envoy for administration left the post in 2019, was involved in setting this documentary up and making this possible. Is that -- what is that accurate? Who was backing this film?
ALEX HOLDER, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: What do you say backing? In what respect in terms of my introduction to the family?
COOPER: Yes, I mean, how did you get access to the president United States? And because there's reporting that they believe the people in Trump world believed that this was going to be a puff piece? How did you get access?
HOLDER: But it's certainly not a puff piece. I got access to having met Jason who introduced me to the family. And at the end of the day, I told them what I wanted to make, which was a film about who they are as people. And this was sort of coinciding with the election campaign. We started in September 2020. So, the obvious sort of thrust of what we were going to do was to, you know, showcase the election and never did any of us. So at least I didn't think that the end result would be what it actually ended up being.
COOPER: So what was Greenblatt an investor or were people in the Trump World investors? I know the Trump family said did not have any editorial control?
HOLDER: Absolutely no editorial control, financial control by anybody connected to the Trump's whether they be friends, family, advisors, introducers, whatsoever. The finances of this project didn't even have a single American involved in it.
COOPER: One of the questions has been raised by the video that's been released publicly as well as what you've turned over the committee is whether Ivanka Trump was inconsistent in what she told them in depositions and what she said in the interviews for your film. Certainly in the sound that was just played, she seems, you know, robotically supportive of the President, you know, doing exactly what he did, which was lying about the election and pretending that it was, you know, making sure that every vote counted.
HOLDER: I mean, I certainly see a discrepancy between what Ivanka said to me and what you said to the committee. As to whether there's anything material with respect to that that will be for others to determine.
[20:50:08] COOPER: You know, Chairman Thompson said today essentially that they're not really looking at any discrepancies and what Ivanka Trump may or may have said. To you, what is the obviously nobody has seen the finished product of your film, which I think is going to be on Discovery +, which is the parent company of CNN. But what is to you, what do you -- what do you take, what is the takeaway from the material you have?
HOLDER: I mean, I think the takeaway is that is a fascinating, unique insight portrayed into the one of the most controversial, complex families in America and perhaps even the world, as well as a sort of the most fascinating story of the most consequential election in probably American history.
COOPER: I heard you say that Don Lemon, I think was last night that after interview, the former president, you think he really believes the election was stolen? I'm wondering, can you just elaborate how you came to that conclusion?
HOLDER: Sure. I mean, the President believes the election was stolen, meaning that he is completely delusional. He doesn't, he's not trying to -- there isn't sort of a lie here. He genuinely believes the election was and he still does, as far as I understand, but at least he did.
COOPER: But how can you say that? I mean, you can't know what's in the President's mind.
HOLDER: After having spent the time I spent with him. To me, it seemed that he sort of absolutely is convinced that he won, and I think based on his character, but also I'll give him (INAUDIBLE) --
COOPER: But with all due respect. I mean, you interviewed the guy, what, three times?
COOPER: That's hardly, you know, enough to really get into his head.
HOLDER: I totally accept that. But I don't think that he was certainly -- I think he's still to this day, is of the opinion that the election is stolen. But I'll give an example. Congress attempted to have the vice president invoke the 25th amendment to remove the president from office, they felt that he was incapacitated. But we know the President could walk and could move his limbs.
So clearly, he was incapacitated mentally. Congress felt that he was unable to perform his duties as president because he maintained a position that was clearly incompatible with reality. So I think it's a pretty fair position to have.
Do you agree?
COOPER: It's too long of a discussion. I don't really agree with your logic. But I think he's lying. And I think he's somebody who believes in a lot. You know, he holds on to a lie, and he has shown a willingness to lie and just continue to stick with a lie. I mean, he lies about, you know, he says, he has a Renoir painting in his apartment. That's a fake Renoir. But he claims it's a real one. I mean, he lies about inconsequential things that are meaningless. He may, he does. I mean --
HOLDER: I think he lives in an alternate universe. I don't think he lives in the same reality that you and I do, but I totally respect your position (INAUDIBLE). I hope you watch it.
COOPER: I look forward to the film. Alex Holder, appreciate it.
COOPER: "Unprecedented," the three part docu series about the 2020 election is going to be released on Discovery + later this summer.
Coming up next, a look into this Sunday night's CNN Heroes salutes with actor Sean Penn on his philanthropic efforts with his disaster response nonprofit Core.
COOPER: In the midst of these historic but stressful times, there's a special program airing on CNN this weekend that'll have you take a break for more than 15 years. CNN Heroes has been honoring everyday people changing the world.
This Saturday, we'll take a look at some not so everyday people making a real difference. Dr. Sanjay Gupta sat down with actor Sean Penn the co-founder of Core his disaster response nonprofit (INAUDIBLE).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Do you think of your work as heroic?
SEAN PENN, CO-FOUNDER, CORE: I have gotten to be have a front row seat to what heroism is. When I was walking back over the border after the trip during the invasion into Poland, and almost every car that was lined up, and almost every adult person was a woman with one or multiple children who had no interest in leaving their husbands who, both by choice and also by mandate had to stay in the country from 18 to 60. You know what's a hero? If your eyes are open, if your hearts open at all. Boy, it's not hard to find it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You can find out more about Sean Penn's philanthropic efforts, along with those chef Jose Andres, Glenn Close, Mila Kunis and more this Saturday night when "CNN HEROES SALUTES," premieres at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
News continues want to hand it over Sara Sidner in "CNN TONIGHT." Sara. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)