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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Queen Elizabeth II Lying In State At Westminster Hall Until Monday Morning; Zelenskyy Visits Liberated Izyum, Shocked By Destruction There; GOP Distance Itself From Graham's 15-Week Abortion Plan; Text Reveal Former Mississippi Gov. Appeared To Help Brett Favre Get Millions In Welfare Money; Brothers William & Harry Together Again In Show Of Unity For The Queen. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 14, 2022 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: That means reduced gas production, spoiled crops, choked off supply of new cars, empty shelves at stores. All of this and it would also affect people traveling.
Amtrak is already canceling long-distance passenger trains because those routes run on freight tracks.
Thanks so much for joining us.
AC 360 begins now.
[20:00:23]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": In the early overnight hours of a country and a kingdom in mourning, this is London, across the Thames behind me, the House of Parliament inside in Westminster Hall, Elizabeth II lies in state as one by one, her devoted subjects do what they have been doing for hours now and will continue to do around the clock until Monday morning.
They are making their way toward the flag-draped coffin, quietly paying their respects to the only monarch most have ever known. As we watch, it is hard not to notice how well the calmness of this late hour fits the moment. This is, after all, a bustling world capital and looks and sounds that way during most daylight hours, except earlier today, when even some flights at the Heathrow were suspended and the city fell quiet for the procession from Buckingham Palace.
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
COOPER: Flanked by Grenadier Guards and Cavalry and led by her four children, the carriage hauled the Queen's coffin down the Mall toward Westminster, it was a remarkable display of ceremony and ritual, history, and family. Each piece of it, every gesture planned to the heartbeat and done with precision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn. Farewell party, slow march.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Inside Westminster Hall, the only spoken words were prayers
led by the Archbishop of Canterbury.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOST REVEREND JUSTIN WELBY, ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY: And the blessing of God Almighty, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit be among you and remain with you always. Amen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The King staying tonight at his private residence, Highgrove House, west of the city where he is expected to spend some time on the phone with world leaders. He spoke with President Biden today.
For more, CNN's Clarissa Ward has been talking with mourners as they make their way toward Westminster Hall. She joins us now.
Clarissa, I know you've been talking to people waiting to see the Queen lying in state all day. What is the scene there tonight? And what have you been hearing?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, as you know, it is after one in the morning here now, but the crowds are not showing any sign of slowing down. You can see behind me, there is a pretty long line here of people who have been waiting for quite some time, although not as bad as some of the estimates had been.
In fact, I just selected this man here. You can tell me exactly how long you've been waiting here, can't you? You've timed it exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have indeed. Three hours and 40 minutes.
WARD: Three hours and 40 minutes, which actually considering that they were warning people might have to spend the night is not as bad. Do you have a sense of when you'll be able to get to Westminster Hall? Another couple of hours or --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had been saying about two hours for the last four hours.
WARD: Two hours for the last four hours. Okay. But what's interesting is that they have broken up, Anderson, into a series of smaller lines and so there is a (AUDIO GAP). Now, I want to ask you a question. Did you know each other before today or --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
WARD: So, you've all just met each other in this line?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
WARD: And is that sort of part of the experience here of waiting and sort of participating in this moment in history? (AUDIO GAP).
WARD: Important to be here tonight, sir. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sense of history, participation in the event
that I won't see ever again. That's it.
WARD: Wonderful and you also, have you come here from here in London or --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
[20:05:10]
WARD: You've come from London.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
WARD: And why was it important to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Again, I think, the sense of history. It is only going to happen, well, I say, once in a lifetime, but with having had the Queen there for so long, no one remembers anything other than her. So, I think it's an important thing to do.
WARD: Absolutely. And it's interesting, Anderson, you hear that a lot from people. It is even people who are not necessarily huge supporters of the monarchy per se, felt that it was important to be out here today, because the Queen is such a part of the fabric of life for the vast majority of Britons they've only ever known the Queen in their lifetime.
And so, so many people are just wanting to come and mark the moment to pay their respects, and to pay homage really, to an extraordinary woman with an extraordinary legacy -- Anderson.
COOPER: Clarissa Ward, appreciate it. Thank you.
Back with us tonight is Bonnie Greer, author, playwright, and former Deputy Chair of the British Museum; also Robert Hardman, he is a columnist for "The Daily Mail" and author of the book, "Queen of Our Times: The Life of Elizabeth II."
Bonnie, as you, at this late hour, see the crowd still out there tonight lined up quietly, solemnly, as they have been all day, what do you make of what we've seen?
BONNIE GREER, AUTHOR, PLAYWRIGHT, AND FORMER DEPUTY CHAIR OF THE BRITISH MUSEUM: You know, Anderson, I was just saying to, Robert, I've lived here half my life. I live not far from here. I've never seen this sort of atmosphere.
It is very quiet, but it's also very buried off, so it's a lot of blockades. There's no overflight. You can't hear the planes because I live in the west end, so there are always planes. Nothing is in the sky. It is very dark, you go everywhere and there are security guards.
Everyone is very quiet, very polite, but it's very, very sort of sequestered. And this crowd is not making a sound. I've never been around so many people who weren't speaking. So it's enormous. It's like, you want to make this as a piece of
theatre. I don't even know if you could even do it, because it's just huge amounts of people and there is no sound at all.
COOPER: That was really noticeable to me at Buckingham Palace last night, as the hearse was coming by. There were scattered applause at times that and even when the hearse went in and disappeared, then there was applause, but the silence and the sort of the weight of it is rather extraordinary.
ROBERT HARDMAN, COLUMNIST, "THE DAILY MAIL": It is, Anderson. I think, at the moment, no one is quite sure what is the subtle -- what is the correct way of mourning this monarch. You know, I think people like to feel there is a sort of an approved response.
And at the moment, I mean, it's perfectly fine to clap, you know, to celebrate the life of this great monarch. Most people have today watched her at the procession in silence, but it is a very strange atmosphere.
As Bonnie says, I think back to the reaction of the days after Diana, 25 years ago, you were here for that, Anderson. I mean, that was different. There was a real sense of anger and shock.
This is a sense of profound loss, and at the moment, everyone is being very correct and have been very respectful. And it does feel like the way we are in a very odd situation. And we saw those wonderful scenes at Westminster Hall. I mean, I was in there a couple of hours ago, watching those scenes. That is amazing.
GREER: That's really interesting you bring up Diana, because I was here and I was in the crowd. People were angry, and there were people making -- there were Catholics literally make the sign of the cross, vividly in front of her, the amount of flowers.
You didn't know when Charles was walking down that procession exactly what was going to happen.
COOPER: There was anger at the family you are saying.
GREER: There was really anger.
COOPER: And journalists who were out there in the crowd just wandering around with little cameras talking to people.
GREER: Real anger. It is not here. This is why -- so this is very quiet.
COOPER: But the comparison is interesting, because I couldn't help but think about it. I mean, completely different crowds, completely different circumstances.
But to see Harry and William walking, once again, side by side, different circumstances. It wasn't necessarily their choice so much, or at least, Harry has spoken since about the sort of the trauma he experienced, the pain of being a child that age walking through a city in front of millions of people like that. This obviously, they wanted to be there today to pay their respects.
GREER: He was a little boy. People calling out his mother's name, people who didn't even know his mother, and he is walking behind them. He's got to listen, he's got to stand tall.
This time what struck me was very moving, is that he is not in uniform, because he has retired from the family. So, he's not in uniform.
He's got his medals on and he is walking next to his brother who going to be carrying a heavy responsibility because his dad's rein is not going to be as long as his grandmother's, so you can see all of that weight of history and possibilities and you can see the brothers again and that's what --
[20:10:03]
HARDMAN: I think it is very important we saw the brothers side-by- side. It is an extraordinary thing. Actually, that's the third time they've marched that route because both the brothers were there for the Queen Mother 20 years ago. And I was thinking today, the memories that must be coming back to them.
Of course, it was only last year that all the Royal family gathered in that extraordinary funeral at Windsor Castle for Prince Philip. So, I mean, these -- you know, these events are -- they are sort of powerful. They are the sort of punctuation marks of all our lives in this country.
I think we all feel this one particularly deeply because it's been said many times, we have known no other. You have to be over 80 to remember another monarch.
GREER: Well over 80.
COOPER: For all the obvious split that has occurred between Harry and William, it was a choice made, I assume, initially by the Queen, who approved all of these plans, and then reaffirmed obviously by King Charles to have Harry and Meghan so prominent on the way to Parliament to Westminster Hall, the vehicle that she was in, the position that they were given, I'm told -- all of that was perhaps a message of trying to reach out.
GREER: But I think, for me anyway, I think we need to give a shout out to Princess Anne. I mean, she is doing something that no woman has done before.
She participated in the Vigil of the Princes. No woman is in that vigil. She walked in the frontline with her brothers. No woman has entered -- the other -- the Royal ladies, including Meghan were being driven and the Princess Royal was right in the front.
And I think she has given a lot of us, women, a really strong example of how to be in this. She is completely involved. She is walking as a woman, as a person, and I think a lot of people have warmed to her. I think she is becoming, this is a horrible term, a breakout -- the breakout star of this, to be honest with you.
COOPER: But she was there when --
GREER: Her mother died.
COOPER: We don't know if she was in the room.
HARDMAN: She happened to be undertaking engagements in Scotland. She was there. She was very, very close to her mother. She sort of rang her every day and as the only daughter, she had that sort of relationship.
And she is a fascinating woman, the Princess, and I interviewed her several times for her 70th birthday. I was making a film about her and she just gets so alive.
She's got a tiny operation at the Palace. She doesn't really like kind of motorcades and the big stuff. She doesn't even like lunch, actually. She gets by -- she can go through a whole day on a kiwifruit. That's her secret, and she adored her mother and she was there at the end.
She was the one who had to break the news to everybody, look, you need to come up here fast. And I thought it was magnificent in Scotland. She was one who accompanied her mother on that extraordinary journey across the Highlands, and she flew back with the coffin last night.
So yes, as Bonnie said, she has been a big star.
GREER: And I've known that about Anne before. I mean, her kids aren't Royals. Refused titles for them -- all of this. And she suddenly looks like something that is very strong about this country.
And not only her mother, but something about this country that has been very moving to me. She's got on with it.
COOPER: You have said in the past, Bonnie, that the Royal family are the last silent films stars.
GREER: Absolutely.
COOPER: Can you just explain what that means.
GREER: We are -- most of us -- well, most people project on this family. Most people will never meet them, will never be near them, will never talk to them. Yet, what the Royal family does, and I think they do it consciously is to become these sort of vessels in which people project on them.
So, a lot of these people who are out here, I bet, if we talk to them, they would also talk to you about the Queen, but they also talk about their family or something that happened to them.
COOPER: Well, that's such an interesting thing. Something somebody who echoed down a little bit earlier today, when watching people coming to see the Queen's coffin, part of the mourning is not just for the Queen, it's memories that they had of their grandmother watching, something their grandmother said about the Queen or watching with their mother.
GREER: Absolutely. Absolutely.
HARDMAN: She represents the warzone generation. She represents grandmothers. She represents -- I mean, there are so many ways that she touches people's lives.
But interesting you say that, Bonnie, one thing that struck me is, and I always ask people this in crowds: Did you ever meet the Queen? Did you ever see her? Of course, most people didn't meet her. They couldn't.
But it is amazing how many people I've met, if not heard, seen a member of the Royal family. They remember when Prince Charles came to their school and Princess Anne came to open a hospital in their town.
The Royal family, because day after day, over a much longer period than any politician, they just invested in the sort of fabric of British life and I always say to people, 'Have you seen them?" And they go well, I didn't see one of the Royal family, and then I go, "Who's your Member of Parliament?" Oh, I don't know.
GREER: I've met the Queen and I've met the King and these people, they're trained. They know exactly how to look at you and they are very, very present in their bodies. It is interesting.
COOPER: Bonnie Greer, thank you so much. Robert Hardman, really a pleasure.
GREER: Thank you.
COOPER: Again, as always.
HARDMAN: Thank you.
COOPER: Just ahead, more on how their grandmother's passing has provided the opportunity for the truce of sorts between Prince William and brother, Harry and perhaps may lead to something else.
Next, Ukraine: A solemn moment for Ukraine's President Zelenskyy and newly liberated territory, as well as a scare for him back in Kyiv. We will have the latest on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We'll have more on the viewing tonight and the ceremonies here in London ahead, but there is a there's a lot of news elsewhere, in particular out of Ukraine tonight.
We learned a short time ago that President Zelenskyy was in a minor car crash, no serious injuries reported. Earlier today, he visited the liberated City of Izyum where he presided over a moment of silence for those who've lost their lives in the fighting and the occupation.
The latest from CNN's Ben Wedeman who joins us now live from Kyiv.
Ben, what was the President's reaction, -- President Zelenskyy's reaction seeing this area of his country that has been taken back remarkably from the Russians?
[20:20:04]
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you said, Anderson, it was a solemn ceremony when he was there to raise the Ukrainian flag over Izyum, but he expressed shock, shock at what he saw. Some Ukrainian officials are saying that as many as a thousand people were killed in that city during the Russian occupation.
Now, at this point, the Ukrainians say they've retaken about 6,000 square kilometers, that's 2,300 square miles from the Russians, just in the last two weeks and his presence there was pretty impressive.
He was only about nine miles from what is still a very active Russian front, and certainly for many people here, they contrasted his appearance, embracing the soldiers, the civilians in that city, compared to the images we've seen of President Vladimir Putin of Russia who rarely goes out.
And when he does meet with people, it's usually at the end of a very long table. So, this certainly shows that the Ukrainians are starting to feel a lot more confident in this war. I think we're at Day 204 at this point, but certainly the atmosphere has changed dramatically in the last two weeks -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, a huge cause for celebration; obviously, still a lot of fighting. Ahead, has the Ukrainian government given any sense of what their next move is?
WEDEMAN: Well, officials are indicating that perhaps as far as the Kharkiv offensive goes, that they may start to slow things down just to secure the territory that they have liberated and perhaps start focusing on the southern front around the City of Kherson. So far, the largest city occupied by the Russians since the war began on the 24th of February.
Apparently, that could be a somewhat more difficult battle because we understand what are described as elite Russian troops have been deployed there, in anticipation of a much talked about Ukrainian offensive in that area -- Anderson.
COOPER: Ben, stay with us. I want to bring in CNN military analyst and retired Army General Wesley Clark, who is the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander.
General Clark, I'm wondering what your reaction is to Ben's reporting. In your mind, is President Zelenskyy's trip to this liberated area a sign of leadership? Was the risk worth the benefit?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Oh, absolutely. The risk was worth it. It is a sign of leadership and his point is exactly right from the beginning, Anderson. He's a very charismatic guy, he really knows how to represent the people of Ukraine and he has been really effective in using his, I guess, his TV and acting experience to portray the struggle of Ukraine to the world.
He has really been a very powerful weapon for Ukraine in this conflict, which is why I was a little worried when I saw he had been in a traffic accident, because that would be a great way to do something if it had been a real assassination attempt.
And so we have to always be conscious of that. He is a huge target for the Russians.
COOPER: Ben, what is the mood like among Ukrainians that you talk to in various places? Are they optimistic about what lies ahead?
WEDEMAN: Certainly, the feeling is that a corner has been turned in this conflict. You know, they've had surprising victories. For instance, you'll recall when was it, back in April -- late March or early April when the Russians retreated from around Kyiv. But since then, the going has been fairly tough.
I was in the Donbas region when Severodonetsk fell to the Russians, shortly after that Lysychansk fell to the Russians. And certainly, there was a period during the early and middle summer where there was worry that this was becoming sort of a stale -- a bloody stalemate. The Ukrainian officials were talking about hundreds of soldiers being killed a day defending territory to the far east of here.
Now, certainly the feeling among many Ukrainians is that the Russians have not only been fought to a standstill, now they are retreating in disarray leaving behind hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of military equipment. Soldiers being captured. The soldiers, clearly poorly led, poorly supplied, poorly trained, and completely incapable of stopping this Ukrainian advance -- Anderson.
[20:25:07]
COOPER: General Clark, once there has been a reversal on the battlefield like this or momentum on the battlefield and coupled with crushed morale and inefficient supplying of the other army, how hard is it for Russian troops to try to reverse that? How far -- how hard is it for Russian leaders to try to reverse that? Or does success breed more success?
CLARK: I think success does breed more success, at least in the near term. Anderson. I think it's going to be very difficult for the Russians to immediately turn this around.
Just think of this, you've got demoralized soldiers, you've got units that are missing key personnel, you've got equipment that's missing, someone has to reorganize all of that and put it back into place.
And, you know, what we've seen is that the military -- Russia is not very good at logistics. It is not very good at resupply, it is not very good at maintaining its equipment. It's lost a lot of its key leadership at the high levels. So, they may not have a leadership to put this together quickly. So, I think this is a real difficulty for the Russians in the north.
In the south, the demoralization has got to be creeping in as they see their logistics line severed. They read about what is out here on the internet, what's happened in the north. They've got to have real doubts. And so, I think it really is a shift in momentum.
Now, on the Ukrainian side, you've got to be very careful, if you don't outrun your logistics and resupply and someone who has got a lot of tired soldiers. They maybe exhilarated, but they need to be resupplied. They need a couple of good night's rest. The weapons need to be cleaned. Their stuff that's broken, radio communications need to be rechecked and so forth, probably going to bring up reserves and you're going to have to put in some defensive fortifications to look at the major evidence of approach into your position.
So, there is a lot of work being done to hold on to this. Normally, you expect a counter attack, I would be surprised if it doesn't happen. And in this case, it is probably under attack by fire to start with. They've got to be prepared for a lot of heavy artillery coming on.
COOPER: General Wesley Clark, appreciate it. Ben Wedeman, as well. Be careful. Thank you.
US politics in action. The latest example how Senator Lindsey Graham's proposed 15-week abortion ban has exposed a Republican split on abortion less than two months before the midterms, that's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:09]
COOPER: Multiple sources tell CNN that conservative House Republicans meaning behind closed doors today got into a heated debate over a 15- week abortion bill proposed by Senator Lindsey Graham. It is the latest example of how Graham's bill has highlighted a major political wound for Republicans less than two months before midterms as the party is scrambling to try to handle the fallout from the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade in June.
CNN chief Congressional correspondent Manu Raju has more for us this evening. Manu?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): GOP leaders had hoped that there'll be just one issue this week that their party could rail against.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): U.S. has a serious inflation problem.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: And inflation continues to choke the American people.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: This is a serious problem.
RAJU (voice-over): But then came Senator Lindsey Graham, who proposed a federal ban on abortions after 15 weeks. He then promised this.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If we take back the House and the Senate, I can assure you we'll have a vote on our bill.
RAJU (voice-over): Top Republicans, including Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell, distanced themselves telling CNN.
MCCONNELL: I think most of the members of my conference prefer that this be dealt with at the state level.
RAJU (voice-over): The Graham bill undercuts the GOP focus to make abortion a states rights issue. Putting endangered Republicans in a difficult spot less than two months before the midterms.
(on-camera): Are you supporting this Lindsey Graham 15-week abortion ban?
UNDENTIFIED MALE: I'm reviewing it. As you know, I'm pro-life.
RAJU (voice-over): Is this helpful for you in -- as your quest to take back the majority?
UNDENTIFIED MALE: You know, every state's probably a little bit different.
RAJU (voice-over): Party leaders insisting it would never have enough votes to become law.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Most of our candidates are going to want to you don't want to leave it in the view of the state. Right.
RAJU (on-camera): Rather than running away from the issue, of course.
THUNE: Yes, well, and I, you know, I think most of them are going to handle like I said in their own way.
RAJU (voice-over): Wisconsin's Ron Johnson here, you know, dangered Republican who voted to restrict abortion at 20 weeks won't say if he'd back the 15-week ban. He says the issue should be left to states like his own, which has reverted to an 1849 law that outlaws the procedure almost entirely. Johnson told CNN today he wants some more exceptions added to his state's law.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: You support the Wisconsin 1849 law that bans abortion.
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I support this going out to the states and laying with people to sign. OK, that's on the books right now. I support exceptions which is doesn't have. But again, we will have this determined by the people.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
JOHNSON: These states.
RAJU (voice-over): Republicans hope voters will view the Democratic position as extreme since they do not support restrictions, even in the third trimester of a pregnancy, a position voiced to CNN by two vulnerable Democrats.
(on-camera): Do you support any restrictions on abortion even on third trimester.
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): Again, this is about whether you're going to take rights away from half the population. And whether politicians are going to insert themselves into an examining room during very complicated and tragic and difficult circumstances.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): Whether it's a woman in making the decision and the first trimester third trimester, this should be a decision between a woman and her doctor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And CNN Manu Raju joins us. Now are Republicans in the House planning similar legislation?
RAJU: Well, in the immediate aftermath of the Roe decision earlier this summer, I asked Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader if he supports that 15-week ban, he told me that he does. And just this past week, House Republicans offered their own version of the 15-week ban. In fact, more than 80 Republicans in the House signed on to this measure, but they are not united on this issue. In fact, behind closed doors today, that Republican Study Committee, which is a conservative group within the larger House Republican Conference, it broke out into a contentious debate over this issue. One Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene said this did not go far enough and wanted to outlaw the practice. Others said they went too far.
So, in -- on the House floor today too, Anderson, Democrats, were seizing on this issue one after another calling out Republicans attacking him on this because they believe their midterm prospects have brightened once very dim may look a little better now. And also, Anderson some Republicans privately agree with that assessment. Anderson.
[20:35:16]
COOPER: Manu Raju, appreciate it.
Before we return to our Royal coverage, another story we want to tell you about involving the former governor of Mississippi, and NFL icon and a growing welfare scandal why text messages from Brett Favre are raising new questions tonight? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Really real text messages are raising new questions for legendary football grade Brett Favre in a growing welfare and public corruption scandal in Mississippi. The state's former governor is also implicated.
CNN's Dianne Gallagher has details. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New court documents filed this week include text messages that appear to show Mississippi's former governor helping NFL Hall of Famer Brett Favre secure millions to build a volleyball facility, money that came from funds meant for needy families in one of the nation's poorest states. A fact that Favre's attorney claims the former quarterback did not know at the time.
PAUL HOLMES, ATTORNEY FOR BRETT FAVRE: Brett, it could have been more honorable in any oof it. He had no idea where it came from.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): The text messages first revealed by Mississippi Today as part of its years long investigative reporting into the scandal were entered into the state's civil lawsuit on Monday by an attorney for the nonprofit founded by Nancy New who was already pleaded guilty to charges related to the overall welfare fund scheme, which the state auditor has called the largest public fraud scheme in Mississippi history. New's son has also pleaded guilty to charges related to the scheme. Court documents show that he knowingly transferred public funds intended for needy families for the construction of the volleyball facility. The batch of Nancy New's text start in 2017 and appear to show former Governor Phil Bryant, Favre, New and others working to secure the money to build a volleyball Center at Favre's alma mater, the University of Southern Mississippi where his daughter then played the sport.
[20:40:45]
On August 3, 2017, court documents show that Favre texted Nancy New quote, if you were to pay me, is there any way the media can find out where it came from and how much? She responded, no, we have never had that information publicized. I understand you being uneasy about that though. The next day adding, wow, I just got off the phone with Phil Bryant. He is on board with us. We will get this done. On that same day, Bryant texted New, just left Brett Favre. Can we help them with this project? We should meet soon to see how I can make sure we keep your projects on course.
Favre and New text regular updates on their continued conversations with the governor 40 each other messages from Bryant on the funding status. In August 2019, Favre tells Nancy New he said to me just a second ago that he has seen it but hint hint that you need to reword it to get it accepted. He then forwarded a message allegedly from the governor instructing how to rework the funding proposal. At one point New asked, confidential. Do you get the impression the governor will help us? Favre respondent, I really feel like he is trying to figure out a way to get it done without actually saying it. Months later, Governor Bryant asked New whether she had gotten any of the new programs from the state's Department of Human Services. New responded in part, someone was definitely pulling for us behind the scenes. Thank you.
Bryant responded with a smiley emoji. Neither Favre nor Bryant had been charged with anything related to the welfare fund scheme. In a statement the former governors attorney told CNN in part, cases should be tried in courts of law where Rules of Evidence govern and privileges are respected. They should not be tried in the press, where innuendo and speculation sometimes get confused with actual facts.
Mississippi Today reporter, Anna Wolfe told CNN she began digging on the volleyball center funding and 2020, asking both Favre and Bryant about the project then.
ANNA WOLFE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, MISSISSIPPI TODAY: And Brett Favre told us that he did not discuss the volleyball project with the governor which is obviously flat out, you know, proven to be incorrect by the text messages that we uncovered this week. And the governor also, you know, tried to distance himself from the project said that he didn't know anything about it.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): This is not the first time the former quarterbacks name has been associated with the scheme. Last year he was forced to repay hundreds of thousands of dollars that the state auditor said was illegally paid to Favre from welfare funds for speeches, the auditor claimed Favre never gave. The Mississippi native said in May of 2020 that he had no knowledge the money he'd received was misappropriated.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: CNN's Dianne Gallagher joins us now. This is remarkable. All of this, it's a glimpse really at the greater welfare fraud scheme that is still being investigated, right?
GALLAGHER: That's right, Anderson. So, there were several different investigations with this massive welfare fraud scheme. Six people have already been criminally charged. One of those is Nancy New. Then the state of Mississippi filed civil suit in May against 38 people including Brett Favre. Now, there's also an FBI investigation that is currently ongoing. And look, I do want to point out that the former Republican Governor Phil Bryant, he's not been charged and he's also not been named as a defendant in any civil suit. But U.S. Congressman Bennie Thompson from Mississippi did ask the Department of Justice this summer to investigate Bryant and any possible connection to this absolutely incredibly large welfare fraud scheme that has just decimated the needy families in his state.
COOPER: Yes. I mean millions of dollars we're talking about remarkable reporting by the people who broke the story to invest -- the investigated this for years as to what the government finds and the investigations fine now. Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much for your report. Amazing.
They've been separated since one step back from his Royal duties, but today we saw brothers William and Harry stepped together again in unison were united in grief. Their evolving relationship, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:49:07] COOPER: Among the many remarkable moments here in London today decided the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Sussex walking in lockstep side by side once again after a very publicly growing apart, but there's William and Harry had been through so much together over the years this latest death with families now a new chapter.
CNN's Richard Quest has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): William and Harry marching somebody together behind their grandmother's coffin on Wednesday. Echoing a painful memory of another tragic time. Twenty years ago, when the two young brothers united in grief, walked heartbreakingly behind their mother's casket. Their bond seemingly unbreakable. From the time they were little the so-called air and the spare were always together, whether on Royal duty or just horsing around.
[20:50:02]
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: He's definitely got more brains than me I think we've established that from school, but when it comes to all that, I'm much greater hands on --
PRINCE WILLIAM, PRINCE OF WALES: Don't (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
PRINCE WILLIAM: It's pretty rich coming from a ginger.
QUEST (voice-over): Harry was best man when the future Prince of Wales married Catherine. Then it was Harry's turn to wed. William also serving as best man for his little brother. The two sharing a private funny moment caught on camera as they waited for his bride, the American actress Meghan Markle. But it wasn't long after that, that signs of a Royal rift appeared to show. Whilst on a tour of Africa, this eyebrow raising comment by Prince Harry revealed much, even though it said little.
PRINCE HARRY: We'll always be brothers, we're certainly on different paths at the moment.
QUEST: In 2020, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex announced their decision to step back as working Royals. The extent of that fracture glaringly obvious. Prince William then forced to carry alone Royal duties that the brothers had been expected to shoulder together. And then there was the tell-all interview with Oprah Winfrey. From the accusation that Catherine, Princess of Wales that cause Meghan to cry a few days before her wedding. To the more serious allegations of racism in the Royal family, and a lack of support from those he was once close to.
PRINCE HARRY: The relationship is space at the moment.
QUEST (voice-over): The airing of the Royal dirty laundry, rippling like an earthquake across the Atlantic. The normally stoic and quiet future monarch defended his family against the accusations.
PRINCE WILLIAM: No, we're very much not a racist family.
QUEST (voice-over): When their grandfather Prince Phillip passed in April last year, many had hoped it would be the catalyst to start the healing process. It was a hope that seemed to be in vain. Now, with the passing of that beloved Granny, an opening, an opportunity, a surprise joint walk about of the Prince and Princess of Wales, and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex in Windsor, where they greeted mourners.
The first time in years, the couple had appeared in public together, later showing an intimate dinner with the rest of the Royals, on Tuesday night at Buckingham Palace. A sign that perhaps this Royal rift might finally be on the mend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Richard Quest joins us now, along with CNN Royal historian Kate Williams.
I mean, there is so much taka, it's impossible not to see obviously, in this free public display, this very personal riff that that continues. Is there a chance of a new kind of chapter in this?
QUEST: I don't know. But I don't think so. The deep, the rift is deep. But you've got to remember, we've still got Harry's book to come out, you know, where he says he's going to tell it in the unvarnished way, you have the cut article interview that Meghan did. So, they're still not missing any opportunity to put the boot in, to put it crudely. And if they, and you know, Charles says, and you think about what Charles talked about how he loved his, his son, Harry and Meghan, and the over the life they've made for themselves overseas. So, I sort of believe there's an element of Charles and so saying, we love you. But that's your choice. You're now overseas.
COOPER: It interesting Kate, because, you know, some Americans watching this, I've heard that people, you know, see, I've seen direct messages on Instagram saying, oh, you shouldn't be talking about this sort of thing. British people are very focused on this. I mean, I people in the street, just walking past by people in the street talking about Meghan and Harry holding hands and arguing about that.
KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: Yes, there's so much conversation about Meghan and Harry and William and Kate. And I do think that this is about it's been from the beginning as soon as Meghan married Harry, there was so much conversation. And I think, you know, there was, as we know, some very unfair criticism, things that Meghan did that all the other women had done, Meghan was criticized. I mean, that was simply the case. And now we are in a situation really where they often I think, used as sort of clickbait.
But certainly, in this occasion, I do think that we see a unity there I do think that we see a possibility of a unity and perhaps that Meghan, Harry might be able to take a greater role in the role in all corporations because they have quite a significant role today. She was really treated as one of the senior Royal ladies by the Queen and her plans.
COOPER: That I think that's an important thing to point out and that's something that would have been not only approved by the Queen or decided by the Queen, but also approved by King Charles.
QUEST: I think a lot depends on what the Sussexes do next, you know. How do they play the game? Do they continue to beat up on the new mnemonic because by now is beating up on his father?
[20:55:12]
COOPER: So essentially, this was a handout --
QUEST: Yes.
COOPER: -- perhaps by the Royal Family to them, saying that there is a possible future role for you, depending on what happens next.
QUEST: Right. But there's also a feeling in Britain, particularly when it comes to Harry and (INAUDIBLE) with Meghan, as you've made your bed, lie in it, you've made your choices. And I'm talking about that's resentment or animus I don't think it's either of those. I think it's just a case of quite a question of you've, you've made a choice.
COOPER: It is so extraordinary to you know, I was here 25 years ago for the funeral of Diana and to remember the children then walking behind that casket, which Harry has spoken about as being incredibly traumatic experience. And to see them there today, you can help draw those parallels.
WILLIAMS: Yes, you are out there as a young reporter weren't you understand to think those days and it was so tragic. I remember the coffin going down with that little card on the top of the coffin mummy from Harry and now the Queen with their ground. It's impossible not to compare and how much the brothers have been through in those intervening years, so much trauma, and so much either. It's such a difficult time in the aftermath of their mother. And of course, it was very sad about the Queen, but it wasn't a tragic shock because Diana's death was a tragic shock for two young boys.
And we know really, I think it's interesting about how is it -- how Harry and Meghan's wall going forward. Because they asked to be half in half out, could they do Royal tours and also earn their money. And the answer was no, but I do feel if the Royal family is going to modernize that has to be the future for the minor Royals who cannot have all these full time Royals that wills who have a job and also do other work like they do in the European Royalty that is our future. And perhaps that is the way that Harry and Meghan could be incorporated if they wish to do so.
QUEST: It's gone spectacularly badly wrong every time. The rules have tried it so far. I agree with you, that is the future. But every time the Royals have got involved in some form of commercial activities, it's always there's always a shout of you're selling the name.
COOPER: Right. Richard Quest, thank you so much. Kate Williams, as well. Thank you so much for today.
Much more on the public outpouring of grief and respect here in London as the late Queen lines and state what's to come ahead of her funeral -- for her funeral, plus King Charles's calls with world leaders today. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:09]
COOPER: Multiple sources tell CNN that conservative House Republicans meaning behind closed doors today got into a heated debate over a 15- week abortion bill proposed by Senator Lindsey Graham. It is the latest example of how Graham's bill has highlighted a major political wound for Republicans less than two months before midterms as the party is scrambling to try to handle the fallout from the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade in June.
CNN chief Congressional correspondent Manu Raju has more for us this evening. Manu?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): GOP leaders had hoped that there'll be just one issue this week that their party could rail against.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): U.S. has a serious inflation problem.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: And inflation continues to choke the American people.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: This is a serious problem.
RAJU (voice-over): But then came Senator Lindsey Graham, who proposed a federal ban on abortions after 15 weeks. He then promised this.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): If we take back the House and the Senate, I can assure you we'll have a vote on our bill.
RAJU (voice-over): Top Republicans, including Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell, distanced themselves telling CNN.
MCCONNELL: I think most of the members of my conference prefer that this be dealt with at the state level.
RAJU (voice-over): The Graham bill undercuts the GOP focus to make abortion a states rights issue. Putting endangered Republicans in a difficult spot less than two months before the midterms.
(on-camera): Are you supporting this Lindsey Graham 15-week abortion ban?
UNDENTIFIED MALE: I'm reviewing it. As you know, I'm pro-life.
RAJU (voice-over): Is this helpful for you in -- as your quest to take back the majority?
UNDENTIFIED MALE: You know, every state's probably a little bit different.
RAJU (voice-over): Party leaders insisting it would never have enough votes to become law.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Most of our candidates are going to want to you don't want to leave it in the view of the state. Right.
RAJU (on-camera): Rather than running away from the issue, of course.
THUNE: Yes, well, and I, you know, I think most of them are going to handle like I said in their own way.
RAJU (voice-over): Wisconsin's Ron Johnson here, you know, dangered Republican who voted to restrict abortion at 20 weeks won't say if he'd back the 15-week ban. He says the issue should be left to states like his own, which has reverted to an 1849 law that outlaws the procedure almost entirely. Johnson told CNN today he wants some more exceptions added to his state's law.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: You support the Wisconsin 1849 law that bans abortion.
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I support this going out to the states and laying with people to sign. OK, that's on the books right now. I support exceptions which is doesn't have. But again, we will have this determined by the people.
UNDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
JOHNSON: These states.
RAJU (voice-over): Republicans hope voters will view the Democratic position as extreme since they do not support restrictions, even in the third trimester of a pregnancy, a position voiced to CNN by two vulnerable Democrats.
(on-camera): Do you support any restrictions on abortion even on third trimester.
SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): Again, this is about whether you're going to take rights away from half the population. And whether politicians are going to insert themselves into an examining room during very complicated and tragic and difficult circumstances.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): Whether it's a woman in making the decision and the first trimester third trimester, this should be a decision between a woman and her doctor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And CNN Manu Raju joins us. Now are Republicans in the House planning similar legislation? RAJU: Well, in the immediate aftermath of the Roe decision earlier this summer, I asked Kevin McCarthy, the Republican leader if he supports that 15-week ban, he told me that he does. And just this past week, House Republicans offered their own version of the 15-week ban. In fact, more than 80 Republicans in the House signed on to this measure, but they are not united on this issue. In fact, behind closed doors today, that Republican Study Committee, which is a conservative group within the larger House Republican Conference, it broke out into a contentious debate over this issue. One Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene said this did not go far enough and wanted to outlaw the practice. Others said they went too far.
So, in -- on the House floor today too, Anderson, Democrats, were seizing on this issue one after another calling out Republicans attacking him on this because they believe their midterm prospects have brightened once very dim may look a little better now. And also, Anderson some Republicans privately agree with that assessment. Anderson.
[20:35:16]
COOPER: Manu Raju, appreciate it.
Before we return to our Royal coverage, another story we want to tell you about involving the former governor of Mississippi, and NFL icon and a growing welfare scandal why text messages from Brett Favre are raising new questions tonight? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Really real text messages are raising new questions for legendary football grade Brett Favre in a growing welfare and public corruption scandal in Mississippi. The state's former governor is also implicated.
CNN's Dianne Gallagher has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New court documents filed this week include text messages that appear to show Mississippi's former governor helping NFL Hall of Famer Brett Favre secure millions to build a volleyball facility, money that came from funds meant for needy families in one of the nation's poorest states. A fact that Favre's attorney claims the former quarterback did not know at the time.
PAUL HOLMES, ATTORNEY FOR BRETT FAVRE: Brett, it could have been more honorable in any oof it. He had no idea where it came from.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): The text messages first revealed by Mississippi Today as part of its years long investigative reporting into the scandal were entered into the state's civil lawsuit on Monday by an attorney for the nonprofit founded by Nancy New who was already pleaded guilty to charges related to the overall welfare fund scheme, which the state auditor has called the largest public fraud scheme in Mississippi history. New's son has also pleaded guilty to charges related to the scheme. Court documents show that he knowingly transferred public funds intended for needy families for the construction of the volleyball facility. The batch of Nancy New's text start in 2017 and appear to show former Governor Phil Bryant, Favre, New and others working to secure the money to build a volleyball Center at Favre's alma mater, the University of Southern Mississippi where his daughter then played the sport.
[20:40:45]
On August 3, 2017, court documents show that Favre texted Nancy New quote, if you were to pay me, is there any way the media can find out where it came from and how much? She responded, no, we have never had that information publicized. I understand you being uneasy about that though. The next day adding, wow, I just got off the phone with Phil Bryant. He is on board with us. We will get this done. On that same day, Bryant texted New, just left Brett Favre. Can we help them with this project? We should meet soon to see how I can make sure we keep your projects on course.
Favre and New text regular updates on their continued conversations with the governor 40 each other messages from Bryant on the funding status. In August 2019, Favre tells Nancy New he said to me just a second ago that he has seen it but hint hint that you need to reword it to get it accepted. He then forwarded a message allegedly from the governor instructing how to rework the funding proposal. At one point New asked, confidential. Do you get the impression the governor will help us? Favre respondent, I really feel like he is trying to figure out a way to get it done without actually saying it. Months later, Governor Bryant asked New whether she had gotten any of the new programs from the state's Department of Human Services. New responded in part, someone was definitely pulling for us behind the scenes. Thank you.
Bryant responded with a smiley emoji. Neither Favre nor Bryant had been charged with anything related to the welfare fund scheme. In a statement the former governors attorney told CNN in part, cases should be tried in courts of law where Rules of Evidence govern and privileges are respected. They should not be tried in the press, where innuendo and speculation sometimes get confused with actual facts.
Mississippi Today reporter, Anna Wolfe told CNN she began digging on the volleyball center funding and 2020, asking both Favre and Bryant about the project then.
ANNA WOLFE, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, MISSISSIPPI TODAY: And Brett Favre told us that he did not discuss the volleyball project with the governor which is obviously flat out, you know, proven to be incorrect by the text messages that we uncovered this week. And the governor also, you know, tried to distance himself from the project said that he didn't know anything about it.
GALLAGHER (voice-over): This is not the first time the former quarterbacks name has been associated with the scheme. Last year he was forced to repay hundreds of thousands of dollars that the state auditor said was illegally paid to Favre from welfare funds for speeches, the auditor claimed Favre never gave. The Mississippi native said in May of 2020 that he had no knowledge the money he'd received was misappropriated.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: CNN's Dianne Gallagher joins us now. This is remarkable. All of this, it's a glimpse really at the greater welfare fraud scheme that is still being investigated, right?
GALLAGHER: That's right, Anderson. So, there were several different investigations with this massive welfare fraud scheme. Six people have already been criminally charged. One of those is Nancy New. Then the state of Mississippi filed civil suit in May against 38 people including Brett Favre. Now, there's also an FBI investigation that is currently ongoing. And look, I do want to point out that the former Republican Governor Phil Bryant, he's not been charged and he's also not been named as a defendant in any civil suit. But U.S. Congressman Bennie Thompson from Mississippi did ask the Department of Justice this summer to investigate Bryant and any possible connection to this absolutely incredibly large welfare fraud scheme that has just decimated the needy families in his state.
COOPER: Yes. I mean millions of dollars we're talking about remarkable reporting by the people who broke the story to invest -- the investigated this for years as to what the government finds and the investigations fine now. Dianne Gallagher, thank you so much for your report. Amazing.
They've been separated since one step back from his Royal duties, but today we saw brothers William and Harry stepped together again in unison were united in grief. Their evolving relationship, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:49:07]
COOPER: Among the many remarkable moments here in London today decided the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Sussex walking in lockstep side by side once again after a very publicly growing apart, but there's William and Harry had been through so much together over the years this latest death with families now a new chapter.
CNN's Richard Quest has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): William and Harry marching somebody together behind their grandmother's coffin on Wednesday. Echoing a painful memory of another tragic time. Twenty years ago, when the two young brothers united in grief, walked heartbreakingly behind their mother's casket. Their bond seemingly unbreakable. From the time they were little the so-called air and the spare were always together, whether on Royal duty or just horsing around.
[20:50:02] PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: He's definitely got more brains than me I think we've established that from school, but when it comes to all that, I'm much greater hands on --
PRINCE WILLIAM, PRINCE OF WALES: Don't (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
PRINCE WILLIAM: It's pretty rich coming from a ginger.
QUEST (voice-over): Harry was best man when the future Prince of Wales married Catherine. Then it was Harry's turn to wed. William also serving as best man for his little brother. The two sharing a private funny moment caught on camera as they waited for his bride, the American actress Meghan Markle. But it wasn't long after that, that signs of a Royal rift appeared to show. Whilst on a tour of Africa, this eyebrow raising comment by Prince Harry revealed much, even though it said little.
PRINCE HARRY: We'll always be brothers, we're certainly on different paths at the moment.
QUEST: In 2020, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex announced their decision to step back as working Royals. The extent of that fracture glaringly obvious. Prince William then forced to carry alone Royal duties that the brothers had been expected to shoulder together. And then there was the tell-all interview with Oprah Winfrey. From the accusation that Catherine, Princess of Wales that cause Meghan to cry a few days before her wedding. To the more serious allegations of racism in the Royal family, and a lack of support from those he was once close to.
PRINCE HARRY: The relationship is space at the moment.
QUEST (voice-over): The airing of the Royal dirty laundry, rippling like an earthquake across the Atlantic. The normally stoic and quiet future monarch defended his family against the accusations.
PRINCE WILLIAM: No, we're very much not a racist family.
QUEST (voice-over): When their grandfather Prince Phillip passed in April last year, many had hoped it would be the catalyst to start the healing process. It was a hope that seemed to be in vain. Now, with the passing of that beloved Granny, an opening, an opportunity, a surprise joint walk about of the Prince and Princess of Wales, and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex in Windsor, where they greeted mourners.
The first time in years, the couple had appeared in public together, later showing an intimate dinner with the rest of the Royals, on Tuesday night at Buckingham Palace. A sign that perhaps this Royal rift might finally be on the mend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Richard Quest joins us now, along with CNN Royal historian Kate Williams. I mean, there is so much taka, it's impossible not to see obviously, in this free public display, this very personal riff that that continues. Is there a chance of a new kind of chapter in this?
QUEST: I don't know. But I don't think so. The deep, the rift is deep. But you've got to remember, we've still got Harry's book to come out, you know, where he says he's going to tell it in the unvarnished way, you have the cut article interview that Meghan did. So, they're still not missing any opportunity to put the boot in, to put it crudely. And if they, and you know, Charles says, and you think about what Charles talked about how he loved his, his son, Harry and Meghan, and the over the life they've made for themselves overseas. So, I sort of believe there's an element of Charles and so saying, we love you. But that's your choice. You're now overseas.
COOPER: It interesting Kate, because, you know, some Americans watching this, I've heard that people, you know, see, I've seen direct messages on Instagram saying, oh, you shouldn't be talking about this sort of thing. British people are very focused on this. I mean, I people in the street, just walking past by people in the street talking about Meghan and Harry holding hands and arguing about that.
KATE WILLIAMS, CNN ROYAL HISTORIAN: Yes, there's so much conversation about Meghan and Harry and William and Kate. And I do think that this is about it's been from the beginning as soon as Meghan married Harry, there was so much conversation. And I think, you know, there was, as we know, some very unfair criticism, things that Meghan did that all the other women had done, Meghan was criticized. I mean, that was simply the case. And now we are in a situation really where they often I think, used as sort of clickbait.
But certainly, in this occasion, I do think that we see a unity there I do think that we see a possibility of a unity and perhaps that Meghan, Harry might be able to take a greater role in the role in all corporations because they have quite a significant role today. She was really treated as one of the senior Royal ladies by the Queen and her plans.
COOPER: That I think that's an important thing to point out and that's something that would have been not only approved by the Queen or decided by the Queen, but also approved by King Charles.
QUEST: I think a lot depends on what the Sussexes do next, you know. How do they play the game? Do they continue to beat up on the new mnemonic because by now is beating up on his father?
[20:55:12]
COOPER: So essentially, this was a handout --
QUEST: Yes.
COOPER: -- perhaps by the Royal Family to them, saying that there is a possible future role for you, depending on what happens next.
QUEST: Right. But there's also a feeling in Britain, particularly when it comes to Harry and (INAUDIBLE) with Meghan, as you've made your bed, lie in it, you've made your choices. And I'm talking about that's resentment or animus I don't think it's either of those. I think it's just a case of quite a question of you've, you've made a choice.
COOPER: It is so extraordinary to you know, I was here 25 years ago for the funeral of Diana and to remember the children then walking behind that casket, which Harry has spoken about as being incredibly traumatic experience. And to see them there today, you can help draw those parallels.
WILLIAMS: Yes, you are out there as a young reporter weren't you understand to think those days and it was so tragic. I remember the coffin going down with that little card on the top of the coffin mummy from Harry and now the Queen with their ground. It's impossible not to compare and how much the brothers have been through in those intervening years, so much trauma, and so much either. It's such a difficult time in the aftermath of their mother. And of course, it was very sad about the Queen, but it wasn't a tragic shock because Diana's death was a tragic shock for two young boys.
And we know really, I think it's interesting about how is it -- how Harry and Meghan's wall going forward. Because they asked to be half in half out, could they do Royal tours and also earn their money. And the answer was no, but I do feel if the Royal family is going to modernize that has to be the future for the minor Royals who cannot have all these full time Royals that wills who have a job and also do other work like they do in the European Royalty that is our future. And perhaps that is the way that Harry and Meghan could be incorporated if they wish to do so.
QUEST: It's gone spectacularly badly wrong every time. The rules have tried it so far. I agree with you, that is the future. But every time the Royals have got involved in some form of commercial activities, it's always there's always a shout of you're selling the name.
COOPER: Right. Richard Quest, thank you so much. Kate Williams, as well. Thank you so much for today.
Much more on the public outpouring of grief and respect here in London as the late Queen lines and state what's to come ahead of her funeral -- for her funeral, plus King Charles's calls with world leaders today. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
