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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Prince Harry & Duchess Meghan Rejoin Family At Events To Honor Queen After Stepping Back From Royal Life; Talks Between Rail Carriers, Union Reps Hit The 12-Hour Mark; Sen. Graham Proposes 15- Week Federal Abortion Ban After Republicans Have Repeatedly Said Issue Should Be Left To States. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired September 14, 2022 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: It is notably quiet hour, and perhaps the quietest period, Modern London has ever seen.
There's a line of mourners, stretching miles, through this city, makes its way toward Westminster Hall, where Britain's longest-reigning monarch lies in state. Even right now, at this hour, behind me, it is 2 AM, here in London. The line is long. And yet, people are waiting. It is moving quickly. And they are getting to see their Queen.
Whether inside or outside the chamber, so many people, we've spoken to, here, have pointed out it is the silence perhaps that is so remarkable, silence in nearly every respect. Because even if you take away the buses, and the taxis and the general bustle that you find, in any great global capital, London still sits directly under the approach path, to one of the world's busiest international airports, Heathrow.
Several airliners fly, over the city, every minute, of every daylight hour, every single day, except for this day, when the only sounds were the music of mourning, chosen by the Queen, herself, and military cadence calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn.
Bearer Party, slow march.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In, out, in, out, in, out.
(PEOPLE SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In, out.
(PEOPLE SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: President Biden and the first lady are expected to fly here, Saturday morning. The President spoke with King Charles, today, and will be the first American president, the King will know as Monarch. His mother knew 14, met 13 of them.
More now from CNN's Jeff Zeleny, on the remarkable span of history, and presidential personalities that her reign encompassed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEEN ELIZABETH II, FORMER QUEEN OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: Our countries have a great deal in common.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Queen Elizabeth is forever etched in American history too.
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: Your Declaration of Independence broke that link. But it did not for long break our friendship.
ZELENY (voice-over): It was 1976, at a bicentennial celebration, at the White House, when Her Majesty looked beyond any historic tensions, to hail a special relationship, with the United States, a moment she would laugh about, on her next visit.
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: With a gallant disregard for history, we shared wholeheartedly in the celebrations of the 200th anniversary of the founding of this great nation.
ZELENY (voice-over): For seven decades, the Queen has been an enduring rock, of the nation's partnership, forging a resilient alliance, with the presidency, regardless of who occupied the office, from Harry Truman, to Joe Biden, an unparalleled bookend of American history that began on her first visit to Washington, in 1951, as a 23-year-old Princess.
HARRY S. TRUMAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Margaret tells me that whenever anyone becomes acquainted with you, they immediately fall in love with you.
ZELENY (voice-over): And so began a U.S. love affair, as Queen Elizabeth, went on to meet, 12 more sitting presidents, during her reign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip were welcomed at the White House.
ZELENY (voice-over): She opened Buckingham Palace, to the Kennedys, in a 1961 visit that captivated both sides of the Atlantic. Four years later, she paid solemn tribute to his memory.
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: In memory of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy, who in death, my people still mourn, and whom in life, they loved and admired.
[21:05:00] ZELENY (voice-over): The Queen built relationships with all presidents, Democrats and Republicans, who all were eager to be seen in her royal presence. She danced with President Ford, after a state dinner, and rode horses, with President Reagan. Their bond, as contemporaries, was notably strong, and on vivid display, in reciprocal visits, over eight years.
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: The long-standing ambition, on my part, to visit California, and the West Coast, what better time than when the President is a Californian?
ZELENY (voice-over): The Queen saw many parts of the country, including Texas, in 1991, when she visited Lady Bird Johnson, at the Library of LBJ, the only U.S. president, she never met, during her monarchy.
At the White House, she was always greeted with pomp and pageantry.
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: The United States represents an ideal, an emblem, and an example.
ZELENY (voice-over): But this moment was seen as a bit of a faux pas, with only her hat visible above the microphones. Yet, if she minded, she never said so, always keeping any thoughts about presidents, to herself.
She once hosted the Clintons, aboard the Royal Yacht Britannia, before delivering a poignant message, on her last trip, to the White House, in 2007.
QUEEN ELIZABETH II: Talk we will; listen we have to; disagree from time to time we may; but united, we must always remain.
ZELENY (voice-over): The final three presidents, of her reign, came to see her, with Obama and Trump, paying multiple visits, and Biden seeing her just last year, at a meeting of G7 leaders, and a private tea, at Windsor Castle.
Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Perspective now, from someone, with a front-row seat, to a slice of that history. Simon Lewis was Elizabeth the Second's press secretary, in the late 90s.
I spoke to him shortly before airtime.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Thank you so much for being with us. She worked with 13 sitting American presidents. The 14th, she didn't meet, I think, which was Lyndon - Eisenhower?
SIMON LEWIS, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR QUEEN ELIZABETH II: Lyndon Johnson. COOPER: Lyndon Johnson.
LEWIS: Yes.
COOPER: But she met with 13 U.S. presidents. She worked with them. What was her role like with, and her connections like, with them?
LEWIS: During the time I was there, it was Bill Clinton's term. And there was no visit, when I was there. There were four state visits, during her reign.
I think it depended on the nature of the President. I mean, it's a bit like the Queen's relationship, with her Prime Ministers. So, for instance, Ronald Reagan, they bonded over their love of horses, and they went riding together.
COOPER: And there are sort of iconic images now, of those - of them, riding together.
LEWIS: Yes. And there was an iconic image of President Ford, leading the Queen, on the dance floor, of the White House. The Obama visits. I mean, I think there was something about the relationship that the Queen had with the U.S. and her family that was quite profound.
I remember sitting next to the late Queen Mother, at a dinner, at Sandringham. And she was talking about the King, going to see the late president. And I remember thinking, which President. Didn't occur to me, it was President Roosevelt.
COOPER: Wow!
LEWIS: So actually, this family goes back a long way. But I think there's an affection. I think the person, who I think George Bush the Second, had quite as sort of, almost like a sort of Father-Mother relationship with her. But they, all in their different way, I think, connected and vice versa. And that was the thing about the Queen, more generally, tremendous connectivity with international leaders.
COOPER: Well, it is remarkable. Over 70 years of her reign, just the sheer number of world leaders, who she met with, and also just, I'm - just trying to think, is there any other person, who has had exposure to world leaders, over a 70-year period, at the level that she had.
LEWIS: Very--
COOPER: There's kind of a consistent - a constancy in her accumulated knowledge.
LEWIS: And she had some favorites.
COOPER: She did?
LEWIS: She did.
COOPER: And who were they?
LEWIS: Nelson Mandela.
COOPER: Who spoke at Parliament Hall in 1996?
LEWIS: Yes. And when I was being interviewed, for my job, working for the Queen, it was at Windsor Castle. And I waited a long time. I thought, well, this is unusual, because normally, almost told everything worked like clockwork.
And then, eventually, I heard peals of laughter, from the top of the stairs. And I looked up, and there was Nelson Mandela, who would run over, by 30 minutes, and his audience with the Queen. Apparently later, I was told, when he walked in, he said, "Ma'am, you look fantastic!" And she said, "You should see my mother!"
COOPER: Yes!
LEWIS: So, there was a special chemistry there.
COOPER: Yes.
LEWIS: But importantly, I think they both understood each other, people like that, because the Queen and - because they both been around a long time, and they've both seen ups and downs. And I think there was a hugely reassuring quality, to the Queen, for world leaders.
COOPER: Well, I mean, a lot of world leaders, it must have been incredibly nerve-racking, someone who has just come into power, to meet with the Queen, and yet to know that she has known all your predecessors, and has had relationships, with all of them, and wondering what your relationship is going to be like with them.
LEWIS: And all the former Prime Ministers, who've spoken about their relationship, with the Queen, have said the same thing. She put them at their ease.
And the thing about, I think, being a world leader, a political leader, is spending time with the Queen, everything else is put to one side, you've just got time with some of that enormous experience. It must have been a very special relationship, whoever the world leader was.
[21:10:00]
COOPER: There are images of her with the Obamas, multiple times. There was a big - there was an incident here that made a lot of news, when Michelle Obama put her arm, around the Queen, and the Queen immediately put her arm around Michelle Obama, which is here, a very unusual thing to do.
LEWIS: And I think the Queen had an instinctive understanding, in those situations, of what was the right thing to do. I think shrinking back would have been completely the wrong thing to do, obviously. So, I think, the Queen's ability, to think, in the moment.
COOPER: President Biden was invited, not a delegation. How are those decision made? Why do you think a decision like that gets made?
LEWIS: These are very delicate decisions. They are always made in cooperation with the Foreign Office and with Number 10. And this is going to be--
COOPER: So, there's consultation between the Palace and Number 10?
LEWIS: Absolutely. And that's another feature of the operation, Number 10, and Buckingham Palace working closely together.
And let's be frank, the fact that all these world leaders are coming this weekend means there's going to be a lot of discussion, going on, between those world leaders. And many of those world leaders will see not just the purpose of being here to pay their respects, to the late Queen, but to spend time with their peers.
But it's very - it's a very delicate process, of deciding who comes. And, of course, the King will be hosting a big diplomatic reception, on Sunday night, which is also a very strong message, to the international diplomatic community.
COOPER: Just as somebody, who knew the Queen, worked for the Queen, and obviously, the Royal Family, how do you think today went?
LEWIS: Today was extraordinary. I mean, I've been out today. And the crowds, they're huge. But there's a quietude. There's a dignity. This has been long planned. But you can never predict, what the day is going to be like.
And I just think the combination of the number of people, the respect, the incredible pomp and circumstance that worked so exquisitely, I think, it's made it a quite exceptional day.
COOPER: Thank you so much, for being on. It's so lovely to talk to you.
LEWIS: Pleasure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ahead, Harry and, wife, Meghan, who've been part of all these ceremonies, after stepping away, from Royal life, what drove them to leave the U.K., and where things stand now.
Plus, latest efforts to avoid a nationwide freight rail strike, in the United States that could cripple the U.S. economy. There are already cancelations, from coast to coast. Coming up, the latest on that.
[21:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Along with all the pageantry, here in London, many are closely watching, the return of Prince Harry and, his wife, Duchess Meghan, to Royal life, at least temporarily, after they chose to step back, as working members of the Royal Family. Randi Kaye, right now, traces their journey, from one continent to the other.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: We went from zero to 60, like, in the first - in the first two months.
RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That's Prince Harry, talking about dating then-girlfriend, Meghan Markle. The couple met in London, through friends, in July 2016, according to Markle. Soon, they were engaged.
DUCHESS MEGHAN, UNITED KINGDOM: Just an amazing surprise. It was so sweet, and natural, and very romantic. He got on one knee.
KAYE (voice-over): They tied the knot in 2018.
(CROWD CHEERS)
KAYE (voice-over): And welcomed their son, Archie, the same month they celebrated their one year wedding anniversary.
From the outside, looking in, it was a fairy tale. California actress meets a prince, and they live happily ever after. But the relentless spotlight, and brutal headlines, soon took their toll.
PRINCE HARRY: Do I have any regrets? Yes, my biggest regret is not making more of a stance, earlier on, in my relationship, with my wife, and calling out the racism, when I did.
KAYE (voice-over): Prince Harry, in an explosive Apple Plus docuseries, "The Me You Can't See," describing the racism, he says, was pointed at his wife, by the British press.
PRINCE HARRY: Within the first eight days, of our relationship being made public, was when it said " Harry's Girl (Almost) Straight Outta Compton' and that her exotic DNA will be thickening the royal blood."
KAYE (voice-over): The pressure, the hurtful words, all soon became unbearable, according to the couple. And their relationship with the British media deteriorated.
DUCHESS MEGHAN: You add this on top of just trying to be a new mom, or trying to be a newlywed, it's - yes. Well, I guess, and also thank you for asking, because not many people have asked if I'm OK. But it's - it's a very real thing, to be going through, behind-the-scenes.
KAYE (voice-over): The stress on the couple, grew so much, Harry says, Meghan considered suicide.
PRINCE HARRY: Meghan decided to share with me, the suicidal thoughts, and the practicalities, of how she was going to end her life.
KAYE (voice-over): In 2020, the couple decided to step back, as senior Royals, become financially-independent, and move to the U.S. But it wasn't just the press the couple was having issues with.
As they told Oprah, it was the Royal Family, who had allegedly made remarks, over the color of their unborn baby's skin.
OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN TALK SHOW HOST, TELEVISION PRODUCER, ACTRESS, AUTHOR, & PHILANTHROPIST: Hold up. Hold up. Stop right now.
DUCHESS MEGHAN: There were several conversations -- there were several conversations about it.
WINFREY: There's a conversation with you?
DUCHESS MEGHAN: With Harry.
WINFREY: About how dark your baby is going to be?
DUCHESS MEGHAN: Potentially, and what that would mean or look like.
KAYE (voice-over): Harry and Meghan have now forged a new life. They reside in the Tony enclave of Montecito, California. And they've added to their family, with the birth of their second child, daughter Lilibet Lili Diana, in June of 2021, named after Harry's grandmother and mother.
The couple has also worked, to soften their image, at times, appearing on shows, displaying their funny, and down-to-earth side.
PRINCE HARRY: Maybe I can do English Tea on the 405?
JAMES CORDEN, ENGLISH COMEDIAN, ACTOR, SINGER, WRITER, PRODUCER, & TELEVISION HOST: English Tea on the 405, why not?
PRINCE HARRY: (BLEEP).
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
ELLEN DEGENERES, AMERICAN COMEDIAN, TELEVISION HOST, ACTRESS, WRITER, & PRODUCER: Like a chipmunk.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
KAYE (voice-over): Meghan has a new podcast, "Archetypes," and says she might join social media, again.
Harry has joined a local Polo Club, in Santa Barbara.
But, for the moment, they rejoined the ranks, of the Royal Family, as the world marks the solemn end, of an era.
Randi Kaye, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Joining me now is CNN Royal Correspondent, Max Foster.
[21:20:00] Look, these moments are difficult for any family, to have it all publicly displayed, like this. And, of course, they know that coming here, and being part of this, it brings it all back.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, I think that they are following all the protocols, the couple, and they're fitting in, as and were expected, knowing the Queen had set the plans out, ahead of time.
COOPER: You were pointing out, earlier today, that they were given a prominent place, in the funeral procession, and all that was thought- out.
FOSTER: Well, what's interesting is, if you remember Prince Philip's Memorial, they were given a very sort of junior position. They were sitting in the congregation, whilst William was right at the front.
But what's changed now is that the Monarch is now Charles, and Charles' two children are William and Harry. So, he's sort of gone up a level, if you see what I mean. So, he did get a very prominent position today, particularly going into the - into Westminster Hall, he was there with, the Queen, and the Prince of Wales.
And I think that, that is a gesture as well, from Prince - King Charles. He didn't have to do it like that. He's given them a very big position. He talked about them, in the speech. I think this is a massive effort, by the King, in particular, reaching out to Harry and Meghan, and trying to make them, certainly part of the family.
But these are public events as well. So, they're bringing - being brought into the Monarchy as well.
COOPER: You think this is sort of, though, a reach-out, to Harry and Meghan, for whatever - however, they want to respond?
FOSTER: Yes. Because Harry and Meghan wouldn't have had any say in where they were placed, in any of this. That would have - they would have been placed there, by the King. And the King - and they would have - they could have chosen not to appear, today. But this would not have been their decision to be in there.
And what I've been told by people involved, that they're following protocol, they're literally just doing what they've been asked to do. And they've done it without any fuss or bother. And they've put all the focus, on the Queen, which has, I think, particularly gone down well, with the public. But, I think, as well, I think it would have gone down well, with the family.
COOPER: How do - I mean, what happens, in the days ahead, now? There's sort of, there's the viewing, and there are people, lining up, at this hour. It's what? It's 2:21 AM? There's - the lines are still very long. That's going to continue for days. The funeral is on Monday. And then, that's it?
FOSTER: I think that's the way it's designed, for the funeral, to happen, be laid to rest, and then the family go off, and have their own time. I don't think there's any desire, by the family, to continue this beyond that.
Perhaps - there will, of course, be the coronation, at some point, next year, which will be a massive event, here, in London. There's a huge amount of arrangement that's gone into that. But I think also, proceeds over a long period of time, people will feel it will be time to sort of move on afterwards.
And I think the Prime Minister has got a lot of issues. We haven't heard anything about her policy agenda. It's all put - been put on the back burner. Politics will need to come back to the fore.
COOPER: And there's so - but the coronation is not - won't be for a year - for a year, you said?
FOSTER: Well it's not completely clear. But, I think, the impression I've got is we're probably looking at next summer, because there's a huge amount of work that needs to go into it. It's not like the death plan, as it were, the London Bridge, which is always updated, all the time.
The idea with the coronation is to start planning that after the death. So, that's a long, big process. And the King will have very specific ideas, about how he wants that to look.
COOPER: Max Foster, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
As we continue to report, from here on, a kingdom grieving, I just want to remind you about the project I've been working on, which is all about loss, and grief, and how it changes all of our lives, and how it's a bond that all of us share. And we've seen a lot of that in the public outpouring, the round (ph) of people coming together, talking about their grief, talking about loss.
You can see the QR code, on your TV screen, there. If you point your cell phone camera, at it, you get a link to the podcast. It's called "All There Is." It's also available, wherever you get your podcasts, Apple podcasts.
Again, you can see the link, to the QR code there. As I said, it's on Apple podcasts, and elsewhere. I hope you like it. The first episode was released, just today.
Coming up next, the latest, on what the Biden administration, is doing, right now, to prevent a rail workers' strike that could have profound effects, on the prices that you pay, for just about anything that's shipped by rail, in the United States.
And later, a conversation with acclaimed documentary filmmakers, Ken Burns, and Lynn Novick, about their incredible new documentary, about America's response to the Holocaust, and how it could have been very different. Ahead.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: The reign of Queen Elizabeth, saw its fair share of labor unrest, here in the U.K., some of which continues, to this day.
To American eyes, it's a lot. Perhaps, not for long. Back home, about 60,000 Union rail workers, are set to strike. Deadline is Friday, at midnight. Amtrak today canceled long-distance passenger service. But it's what a strike could do to already tight supply chains, and inflation, which is front and center, in many minds.
Right now, the Biden administration is trying to broker some sort of agreement, between union, and railroad officials.
CNN's Kaitlan Collins, is at the White House, for us, monitoring late developments.
So, what do we know, about the meeting that's still going on, with Labor Secretary, Marty Walsh, and railroad carriers, and union officials?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, they've just hit the 12-hour mark.
Those union representatives showed up, at the Labor Department, this morning, just after 9 AM. They are still meeting, I am told. And it's gotten so, of course, prolonged that they've even ordered dinner, a few hours ago. So, they are still trying to hammer out this agreement.
Obviously, officials are taking it as a good sign that both sides, these union representatives, and the railroad carriers, themselves, are still at the table, still having these discussions, which we were told, earlier in the evening, are happening in good faith.
But also, Anderson, it's been over 12 hours now, and they have not yet announced an agreement. So that of course is what officials are watching very closely.
It's significant that it got to this point, where the Labor Secretary, Marty Walsh, felt that he had to get both sides, in the Labor Department, in the same building, to talk this issue through.
And so, President Biden, here, of course, has been personally involved in this. We know he placed calls, to these unions, to these railroad carriers, earlier this week, himself, to try to get them to hammer out an agreement. He is being briefed and updated on what's been going on, during these extensive talks, at the Labor Department, today. But still no agreement yet.
[21:30:00]
COOPER: How if he - if there's nothing the Labor Department, or the President can do, to prevent it, how is the administration preparing for it?
COLLINS: Well, two things. One, they are preparing contingencies. Because the big question for them is what is it going to look like, if this actually happens, if this strike is not averted, and they do hit that deadline, on Friday night, with no agreement. And so, they've been talking about contingency plans, with people, like Transportation Secretary, Pete Buttigieg, the Labor Secretary, or the Agriculture Secretary, Tom Vilsack, obviously, who has a big stake, in this game, about what could they do, potentially? If they're not using freight? Can they use trucks? Can they use air freight? Can they use these other kinds of shippers, to try to get this stuff that is so vital, to the supply chain, around?
The other thing, Anderson that they've thrown around is maybe some executive action, by President Biden. It's not really clear the extent of what he can do, because a lot of this is under the purview of these private companies. And so, that's a big question here. But it is something that they have kicked around, because I think they realize the seriousness of this.
And also, President Biden himself has been obviously a huge supporter of unions, during his presidency. He talks about it, all the time, when he's on the road.
He's navigating a very delicate balance, here, between obviously trying to avert this potential disaster, which they're worried could exacerbate inflation, which as you know, has already been a major problem, for them, but also still supporting the unions, in the way that you've seen President Biden talk about so much, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Kaitlan Collins, appreciate it. Thanks.
Our political discussion continues next, with a look at how Senator Lindsey Graham's proposed 15-week national ban, on abortion, has exposed a rift, in the Republican Party, on the issue, just ahead of the midterm elections. That's next.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Sources tell CNN that a closed-door debate, by House Republicans, over Senator Lindsey Graham's proposed 15-week national ban, on abortion, got heated, today.
One member characterized it, to CNN, as, quote, "Healthy discussion," with what he called, quote, "Different viewpoints." It's the latest example of how Graham's Bill has put an uncomfortable spotlight, on a major rift, in the party, over abortion, less than two months, before midterms.
I want to get some perspective, now, from CNN Senior Political Analyst, Kirsten Powers, a former Clinton administration official; and CNN Political Director, David Chalian, as well.
David, does Senator Graham's decision, to propose a federal 15-week abortion ban, after Republicans vowed to leave the issue to states, make any political sense to you?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, we should note, Lindsey Graham is one of those Republicans, who said, just this summer, on CNN, it should be left to the states.
I mean, it doesn't make necessarily smart political sense. But I think what Lindsey Graham is doing here is trying to rally the base of the Republican Party, which has had, as a life force, as a through line, for nearly 50 years, overturning Roe v. Wade, that that has been such sort of a motivational cause.
And now the party is sort of the dog that caught the car, Anderson. And so, what you have is, the party doesn't seem very prepared, for sort of the, what then. So, they achieved this 50-year quest, of having Roe overturned. And now, they're scrambling, to get to a place, to sort of answer the, what then.
And Graham proposes this, as an opportunity, he thinks, to try and rally the conservative pro-life Republican base. But obviously, Democrats seize this as a political opening.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, Kirsten, Democrats have been warning voters that this is exactly what many Republicans wanted to do, regardless of talk about states' rights. How big of a gift did Senator Graham just give to Democrats going into the midterms?
KIRSTEN POWERS, USA TODAY COLUMNIST, FORMER CLINTON ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think in political terms, certainly, it's a big gift. But I think if you look at as substantively, it's, for many people, in this country, it's very, very frightening, of course.
Is it - he is just saying the quiet part out loud, and that's what they're upset about that he's just talking about what they really want to do, when they get into office? I mean, it wasn't a month ago that he was actually echoing this states' rights argument that the states should be handling this, and had no interest in any kind of national ban. And then, here he is.
And so, I think, the big fear, for a lot of people, not just Democrats, is that if the Republicans get into office, that this is what they're going to do. What he has done is he's made that argument now, front and center.
As a political matter, it makes no sense. I don't see, how it could possibly help the Republicans. And that's why you see Republicans getting so upset, and, being unhappy that he has brought up something that does not work to their benefit.
COOPER: I mean, David, this is not the first time Lindsey Graham has said something, which is completely the reverse of what he has previously said. He did that regarding nomination of Supreme Court Justices. The level of hypocrisy about, for years talking about states' rights, and even, as you said, recently, as a month ago, and now to be talking about a national ban?
What does it tell you that congressional Republicans seem to be all over the place in their response to his proposed ban?
CHALIAN: It tells me, when you see a party, just two months out, from the midterm election, not all singing from the same song sheet, they've encountered a political problem. And that's what, I think, Mitch McConnell just clearly laid to bear, when he said, he's not even sure he would push for this, to come up for a vote.
When you hear Rick Scott, the chairman of the committee, charged with winning back the majority, in the Senate, for Republicans, the Republican from Florida, sort of saying, "We really need to be talking about inflation, and the economy, not this?" You have such discord in the party.
And it's just a clear indication that they understand the position that Lindsey Graham is taking is not a position where the American people are broadly, right now. And when you're 55 days, 54 days away from an election, that's not where you want to be.
COOPER: Yes, Kirsten, when Manu Raju asked Rick Scott, Rick Scott said, well, he's studying Graham's proposal.
[21:40:00]
You would think after years of debate, over Roe v. Wade, over abortion? People's positions would be pretty thought-out. The idea that - the idea of a national ban is something that's new to Rick Scott, and that it needs to be studied seems unusual.
POWERS: It's unlikely that he doesn't know what he thinks about that. I think that he - it's true that Republicans have gotten away with taking positions, on abortion, for a long time, without any kind of consequence, because of Roe v. Wade, so they could fall back on that.
But now that Roe has been overturned, it's changed. But certainly, Rick Scott has had enough time, since Roe was overturned, to know what he feels about that.
And I think that, like I said, I think Lindsey Graham's telling us all, what Republicans would do, if they were in control of Congress. And so, I think, that's something that voters should take into consideration.
Because we've seen, across the country, even in conservative states, even in Red states, even with people, who identify as pro-life, finding, a lot of these abortion bans, to go too far.
And it's worth pointing out that he has presented this, as kind of a moderate alternative. It's actually it's not moderate at all. It's extreme. We don't have enough time to get into all the different ways it's extreme. But even the so-called exceptions that are in it, are almost impossible, to even use, the way that they're - they would be set up. So, what he's put out--
COOPER: Yes.
POWERS: --is a very extremist position, which, I guess, seems to be sort of where the Republican Party is, right now, on abortion.
COOPER: And David, I mean, given the spike in in female voter registration, after Roe v. Wade, was overturned, do you anticipate that this proposed ban could have a similar impact?
CHALIAN: Well, I don't think it will have as big of an impact, as Roe v. Wade being overturned.
But I think this is part of that narrative that we've seen now, in five House special elections, since the Dobbs decision came down, Anderson, where the Democrat has over-performed, what Joe Biden did, in those districts, just two years ago, in 2020. They didn't win all those, but the Democrat over-performed what Biden was doing, in each of those House special elections.
As you noted, you saw the registration surge, the huge turnout in Kansas. It's clear the issue has shifted the landscape. I think the question here is, is it sufficient, for Democrats, to save their majorities, given the overwhelming concern, about inflation, and the economy that still exists in the electorate?
COOPER: Yes, and still a lot of time before midterm.
David Chalian, Kirsten Powers, thank you very much.
Coming up, more of the Queen, and her legacy, and involving World War II.
Plus, my discussion with filmmakers, Ken Burns, and Lynn Novick, about a new documentary that examines, well, it's on Sunday, on PBS. It's "The U.S. And The Holocaust," examines the U.S. reaction, in the run- up, to the Holocaust. It's a really important remarkable film. We'll talk to them, ahead.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: The change of monarchs, here, comes at a time, when Europe, America, and the rest of the world, confront a rise of anti-Semitism.
Earlier this year, British charity reported that in 2021, there were more acts of anti-Semitism, in the United Kingdom than at any point, since it began recording, these incidents, in 1984.
We should point out that the Trust that promotes and supports Holocaust Memorial Day, in the U.K., called the Queen, a consistent supporter for those, who survived, and for the education that continues.
The horrors, of the genocide, are the focus, of a new documentary, from Ken Burns, and Lynn Novick, called "The U.S. And The Holocaust," which traces America's response, to one of the greatest humanitarian crises, of our times, why it was unwilling, to open its doors, to the Jewish immigrants.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Among the new arrivals, from Eastern Europe, were more than 2 million Jews, most fleeing poverty, and many escaping anti-Semitic violence.
Some Jews, who had already been, in America, for generations, were also wary of the newcomers. "We are Americans, and they are not," one rabbi said. They know the bones of past centuries.
By 1910, New York would be home, to more than a million Jews, more than a quarter of the city's population, far more than any other city on Earth.
PETER HAYES, HISTORIAN: The anxieties about urbanization, about unlettered, untutored, relatively uneducated peoples, coming in, in large numbers, the sense that disease was a problem? All of these worries were amalgamated, into a belief that immigrants caused these problems, and thus immigration should be held down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many White Protestant Americans came to fear, they were about to be outnumbered, and outbred, by the newcomers, and their offspring that they were being replaced.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Episode one of the documentary premieres Sunday, on PBS.
I spoke to Ken Burns, and Lynn Novick, earlier, about their new film.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Ken, I mean, this is such a beautiful film, and such an important one, and as well as infuriating, at times. It's a very uncompromising look at the way America responded to what was happening in Europe, during the lead-up, to the Holocaust. And a lot of those prejudices are obviously still present, in society, today.
For you, what was your hope, in making this documentary, in this moment?
KEN BURNS, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Well, we began this seven years ago, when America was a very, very different place, in 2015.
And we hoped to just tell a story where, after doing this, for a few decades, you know that whatever subject you do, it will rhyme, in the present, there'll be resonances that will be important. And our discipline, as filmmakers, is to not to yield to those, not to put arrows, pointing at them, or neon signs, but to just tell the story, and know full well they'll resonate.
But as we worked on this, more and more, as time caught up with us, as we got closer to the air date, we began to realize, how much it is rhyming, in almost every sentence, with today.
[21:50:00]
That, we set the table, of our film, with the story of anti-Semitism, in America, anti-immigrant sentiment, nativism, our treatment of Native Americans, and their isolation, into reservations, and the African American slave trade, and the racism that comes out of that. All of these things are still present in American societies.
COOPER: One of the narratives, Lynn, in this series, follows Anne Frank's family, and their attempt to come to the United States, I think, a lot of people don't really know about. Can you just talk about that? And, I mean, could the story that we understand of Anne Frank, could it have ended differently?
LYNN NOVICK, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Yes, this was a revelation, to all of us, working on the film.
Some documents came to light, when we were getting started on our research that showed that Anne Frank's father, Otto Frank, had written to the American Consulate, and tried to get a visa, to come to the U.S., after they had fled Nazi Germany for Amsterdam. And before they went into hiding, he tried again.
So, he tried over and over again, to get to the United States. And he had all the right paperwork, he had the connections, he had the resources. And yet, they were turned away, essentially.
And like thousands of other people, who wanted to get out of Nazi Germany, and Nazi-occupied Europe, America was not willing to welcome more than a fraction, as we say, in the film, of the people who needed to get out.
COOPER: And Lynn, I mean, FDR is such a fascinating character, in the documentary, because he is sort of torn between trying to keep America out of the war, and recognizing that he needs to support England, as the last best hope, against Hitler.
NOVICK: Yes. I think, sometimes FDR can be blamed, in a very simplistic reading of this story, that it's all his fault, that America wasn't more engaged, with saving refugees, and addressing the humanitarian crisis that was unleashed, as Hitler began the persecution of the Jews.
But he had a lot of problems, on his plate, to deal with, including preparing our country, as you said, either to stay out of the war, or eventually, to have to get into it. And public opinion was staunchly against that. Isolationism, America First, Americans really did not want to get involved, in another European war, after World War I.
COOPER: It's also so important, Ken, that Anne Frank story, and those details, it's very easy, to look back in history, and say now, "Oh, well, of course, if I was alive, then I would have supported Anne Frank's family coming, and other Jews being able to come, and save them."
But it's easy to do that looking back. It's less easy to look now, at people wanting to come to the United States, and do that, in the same way.
BURNS: That's exactly right. And I think that's the thing is, what kind of America do we think we are, what kind of Americans do we wish to be? Are we, as our film shows, the Americans, of the Emma Lazarus poem, "Give us, your tired your poor?" Of another poem, written about the same time that said, "O Liberty, white Goddess! Is it well to keep the gates unguarded?" meaning "Close them, we do not want to be replaced, by this influx of foreigners."
And then we pass anti-immigration laws, in 1925, with very restrictive quotas, from areas, countries that have particularly large populations of Jews. And we end up creating this unnecessary bottleneck that is going to make it us legally difficult to bring these people in.
And so, while we brought in 225,000 refugees, from Hitler's war on Jews, more than any other sovereign nation, even if we just filled the quotas, we could have brought in five times as many.
COOPER: Well, also in the documentary, you flash-forward, to the present, to show how these battles are far from over. This is not just some look back in history.
I just want to play another clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMOTHY SNYDER, HISTORIAN: This thing that people call white supremacy, that's not some marginal thing. You have to look back, and say, "How can we change, so that we really can be a Republic, or really can be a democracy?"
If we're going to be a country in the future, then we have to have a view of our own history, which allows us to see what we were. And we can become something different. And then we have to become something different, if we're going to make it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And obviously, the question we get is, how does that become something different?
BURNS: Well, I think what we do is we need to study who we are. It's so interesting that the Germans, who perpetrated this horrific crime, against all of us, and particularly the Jews, of Europe, have really engaged themselves, with decades of self-reflection.
We, on the other hand, presuming we are the greatest country on Earth, and the most exceptional people, have rarely had the opportunity, or the interest, in delving into the darker aspects of ourselves.
[21:55:00]
But only through the understanding that that is equally part of us, as well as the very good things that we do, do we come to terms and reconcile these divergent things, and perhaps, have the opportunity, as Timothy Snyder, suggests, so intelligently, to make a decision, in favor of preserving our democracy, and not yield to the authoritarian impulses that are always before us. To demonize the other.
COOPER: Yes.
BURNS: To erode the systems of fairness of elections, of the peaceful transfer of power. This is all out of the playbooks of all authoritarian leaders.
And we see, I've talked to you about this, the three great crisis of the Civil War, the Depression and, World War II. Now, I think we're in the fourth great one. And this is the first one, in which the very foundations of the Republic, are revealed to be quite fragile.
COOPER: Yes. Ken and Lynn, thank you so much, for making this film. And I hope a lot of people see it. And it's so important.
Ken Burns, Lynn Novick, thank you so much.
BURNS: Thank you.
NOVICK: Thanks for having us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: First episode, is on Sunday, on PBS.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Let's hand things over to Don Lemon, who's standing right next to me.
How are you, Don?
DON LEMON, CNN HOST, DON LEMON TONIGHT: What a fascinating day, Anderson, watching--
COOPER: Incredible!
LEMON: --this all unfold.
