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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

GOP Conference Meeting No Longer Expected Tomorrow As McCarthy Scrambles To Find A Path To Speakership; Uncle Tells CNN Bills Player Damar Hamlin Had To Be Resuscitated Twice; Actor Jeremy Renner Shares Update On His Condition After Snow Plowing Accident On New Year's Day. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired January 03, 2023 - 21:00   ET




ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Large number of pizzas have been seen, going into Kevin McCarthy's office, tonight, easing the hunger perhaps, but only adding to the heartburn, as he tries to do now, what he could not do, leading up to three humiliating rejections, on the House floor, in his quest to become Speaker.

He's trying, again, to twisting up, potentially, untwistable Republican arms, to win 218 votes, when the House comes back into session, tomorrow, at noon.

Just a short time ago, CNN's Manu Raju reported that there will be a Republican Conference meeting, tomorrow morning. That however, we understand, has now changed.

I want to go to CNN's Melanie Zanona, at the Capitol, with a new reporting, on that, and on McCarthy's frame of mind, as well.

Melanie, what have you learned?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Yes, well, things have not moved, in Kevin McCarthy's directions, since that third ballot, where he failed to get the votes.

It's been back to the drawing board, for Kevin McCarthy, and his allies. We've seen supporters going into his office. We're told he has been working the phones. He is still hoping to negotiate, and not planning to drop out.

But meanwhile, I just spoke to a GOP lawmaker. This is some Breaking News, here. This lawmaker texted me, and said - this is someone who supported McCarthy. They said they have just gotten a phone call, from one of the never-Kevin Republicans, who is trying to grow their opposition, and is trying to get that member to flip.

So essentially, what you have here is Kevin McCarthy, in his office, in the Capitol, trying to get to 218. And you have, as the opposition, digging in, and trying to work directly, against him. And look, this is one of the potential drawbacks of doing the motion to adjourn. There was a lot of concern, initially, about whether if they were to send members home, about whether the opposition would have time to grow.

One GOP lawmaker said to me, "McCarthy sent us home for the night to a pressure cooker, and the pressure is against him." So, that does really exemplifies, where we are right now, Anderson.

COOPER: So, we won't know, if - what way the needle has moved, for or against McCarthy, really, until that first vote, starting sometime around 12, tomorrow?

ZANONA: Yes, that's right. I mean, it's what, 9 o'clock, at night, at this point? And they are still in active discussions. I don't expect a resolution, tonight.

There was talk about whether they were going to have a Conference-wide meeting, tomorrow. There's been so much back-and-forth. They were going to have one. Now, they're not having one. That is still up in the air.

It just shows that Kevin McCarthy is really scrambling, right now. I mean, he doesn't have a clear path forward. They are still trying to figure things out. But it is very possible that tomorrow is like Groundhog Day where we wake up, there's another Conference meeting, and they have more votes, and McCarthy still can't get there.

COOPER: It's interesting, because there was a Conference meeting, this morning, where Kevin McCarthy spoke to members. That didn't seem to actually help him. If anything, it seemed to hurt.

ZANONA: Yes, actually, Anderson, I talked to some Republicans, who are supporting McCarthy, who said they thought that strategy backfired. And some of the critics, walking out of that, meeting said, exactly that, and that they're even more entrenched, in their opposition, because McCarthy really took his critics to task, in that meeting.

While there were people cheering McCarthy on, and they wanted to see him going after these critics, because, McCarthy has given them every concession. And yet, they still haven't given anything in return. So, there was a lot of frustration that built up at that point. But Republicans said it did not do Kevin McCarthy any favors.

And so, it's unclear what a Conference meeting would do, for Kevin McCarthy. I think that's part of the calculation here, in them deciding, whether to have these big meetings. Those are not where negotiations are really had. Those are more venting sessions. If there is any progress to be made, it's going to be, in those private one-on- one phone calls, Anderson.

COOPER: Melanie Zanona, appreciate it, a long day for you. Thank you.


COOPER: Joining us now, CNN Senior Political Correspondent and "Inside Politics Sunday" Anchor, Abby Phillip; former Illinois Republican congressman, Joe Walsh; former South Carolina congressman and governor, Mark Sanford; and Howard Dean, former Vermont governor, Presidential candidate, and Democratic National Committee Chairman.

Abby, let me start with you. Do you think there's a path forward for McCarthy here?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY: If there's a path, it's going to be really just a matter of luck. And it should be noted, Kevin McCarthy is actually a lottery winner, in his teens. So, he is someone, who knows a little bit about luck.

I think tonight, and tomorrow is going to be all about what tricks he could pull, out of his hat, and what kinds of concessions, he can come up with.

And literally, I think, at this point, though, for these members, the Conservatives, the 20 members, who have pushed back against him, they're really in a position now, where McCarthy is offering them quite a lot.

He's offering them extraordinary power, perhaps unprecedented, in the modern history of speakers. And it is a question, right now, about whether they will take what could be a really good deal. And some of them might not. Some of them simply do not like Kevin McCarthy, very much.

But I think that if there are people, in the 20, who actually want something tangible? They want rules changes? They want committee positions? They want assurances of specific kinds? They could certainly be in a position to get that.


And we will find out over the next day or so, how much further McCarthy is willing to go, to start whittling this group of 20 down, to - I mean, he has to get them, down to about four. Otherwise, this is not going to happen, for him.

COOPER: Congressman Walsh, do you think many of those 20, really do have specific things they want? Or just it's personal, and they like the position they're in, right now, and it's not about this particular committee assignment?

JOE WALSH, (R) FORMER REPUBLICAN U.S. CONGRESSMAN - ILLINOIS, HOST, "WHITE FLAG" PODCAST: No, Anderson, they want a scalp. Plain and simple, they want a scalp. And part of this is Kevin McCarthy's fault. But a big part of it isn't.

Kevin McCarthy, Anderson, has never had a core. He has a history of saying anything to anyone. And what that's done, over the years, is really no member of the Republican Caucus, trusts McCarthy, even people, who support him.

But Anderson, the aspect of this that's not his fault is, look, the Republican Party base is fully radicalized. And Republicans, in the House, represent that radicalized base. This is a long time coming, right? It started with Tea Party folks, like me, back in 2010. But this Party now is not at all where Kevin McCarthy is. He's just so out of touch with it.

COOPER: Congressman Sanford, I mean, we heard Melanie's report. Both sides hunkered down, whipping votes, tonight. Do you think it's a wise decision strategically to have adjourned?


I think this is one of those nights, when you drag folks through the muck of the legislative process. And when you're up at 3 o'clock, in the morning, people begin to get tired, and bladders are full, and headaches are there, and they're ready to go home, and they're ready to get out of there. I mean, you can pick up a couple of votes that ways.

So, I don't understand the strategy, of shutting things down, for the night, and beginning again, tomorrow. I don't get it.

COOPER: Governor Dean, do you think there's any reason Democrats should consider trying to help get McCarthy, over the finish line?


COOPER: I mean, if the goal was to get to work on behalf of the American people?

DEAN: No, I don't think so. I mean, the problem is exactly what Congressman Walsh said. He has no core. He never has had a core.

So, I think, this is - I'm the least expert people on the - expert person, on this panel, regarding this particular matter, never having been through this, and not being a Washington politician. But it seems to me that the likelihood is that Scalise, or somebody like that, who at least stands for something. I may not like what he stands for. But he wants to get something done.

I think if the present candidate, for Speaker, becomes the Speaker, nothing is going to get done, in the House. He's not going to have a workable majority to do it. I just don't see how this works at all.

COOPER: You know, Governor Dean, it's interesting, though, and you bring up the, "He has no core," which is what Congressman Walsh was saying.

Even, the people, who, he debased himself to, who, he sort of humiliated himself to, in order to get something? They even don't like him, because he has no core. Matt Gaetz said he had to kind of sold shares in himself. It's kind of a lesson in leadership.

DEAN: It is. And it's a big difference between McCarthy and Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi had a core. And if you crossed it, you were going to feel exactly what that core was going to do. And you have to have that in a Speaker. And I don't think McCarthy's got the backbone, to do the job, even if he should get it. And I don't think he will.

COOPER: Abby, the former - the NBC - there's an NBC report, saying, the former President, former President Trump, would not say if he's standing by his endorsement, of McCarthy. I don't know that anybody should be surprised by that, but certainly, most of all, Kevin McCarthy.

PHILLIP: Yes, no, I mean, I don't think anybody's really surprised by it.

This has been one of those interesting things, when I talk to Republicans, about this. Trump is privately backing McCarthy. He's quietly backing McCarthy. But he's not using the full force of his bully pulpit, to really twist the arms, of a group that frankly, loves him. I mean, these are his people. And he could be doing more. And he's not.


PHILLIP: And I thought that his comments, to NBC, were telling, because he doesn't want to be on the side of a loser. And, I think, what it told me was that he doesn't think that McCarthy is going to pull this out. And he doesn't want to be associated with someone, who cannot win.

COOPER: Congressman Walsh, what does this tell you, about what things are going to be like, in the House, for the next two years, in terms of just getting stuff done?

WALSH: Yes, that's why, Anderson, this may be a really boring take, but I don't think it really matters, which Republican ultimately becomes Speaker.


Because the MAGA Trumpist wing, of this, Party? And it's no longer a wing. It is the Party, in the House. They're going to control the next two years, no matter who the Speaker is. They want to investigate Hunter Biden's laptop. They want Dr. Fauci's scalp. And it really doesn't matter who the Speaker is, because the Speaker is not going to be able to stop any of that.

COOPER: Congressman Sanford, I mean, even if McCarthy does ultimately win, he's given away, a lot of his power. I mean he can be challenged at any moment.

SANFORD: Yes. And, I mean, to Congressman Walsh's point, this is going to be a thankless job, for whoever gets it. I mean, you do not have a governing majority. So, who would want the job, is probably a much bigger question.

And I go back to where we are. When you've been three rounds, in the vote, for Speakership, it is not about trading off for a road, or a bridge, at this point. Folks are locked in. They've been embarrassed, and pushed, and battered, and cajoled, by their peers. They're worn out. And they get into a lockdown position that is very, very difficult to unearth. Maybe you might peel off five or 10. But to get down to those last four or five, I think, it's near impossible, and would agree with Howard's thoughts.

COOPER: Yes. Mark Sanford, Joe Walsh, Abby Phillip, Howard Dean, appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up, next, the latest, in the medical condition, of Buffalo Bills Safety, Damar Hamlin, conversation with a friend of his, and perspective, from former Buffalo Bills Captain, Coy Wire.

Later, the extradition hearing, in Pennsylvania, today, for the alleged killer of four University of Idaho students, what was said, and when he's expected to return to Idaho. We'll have a live report, ahead.



COOPER: More Breaking News, now. Damar Hamlin's uncle tells CNN tonight, that the Buffalo Bills player, who was severely injured, during last night's Monday Night Football game, is still sedated, and on a ventilator, and not breathing on his own.

He also says that Hamlin had to be resuscitated, twice, last night. Once, on the field, as everybody saw, then, later, at the hospital. Also, his uncle says that Hamlin has been flipped on his stomach, to reduce the pressure on his lungs.

Hamlin is in critical condition, after severe hits, to the chest, and head area, during Monday Night Football, led him to collapsing, on the field, and suffering cardiac arrest. It was an awful moment, witnessed by millions.

In a moment, we'll talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta, about Hamlin's condition. Plus, former NFL players weigh in on what they saw, and what we all saw, last night.

But first, we want to spend some time, with someone, who knows Hamlin, personally. Jordon Rooney is his name. He's a friend and marketing representative.

I spoke to him, before airtime.


COOPER: Jordon, I appreciate you joining us.

I know you spent time, at the hospital, with Damar's family. His uncle has just told CNN that Hamlin had to be - that Damar had to be resuscitated, at the hospital. That's this - and obviously, on the field, as well. Do you know anything more about his condition, how he's doing, right now?

JORDON ROONEY, MARKETING REPRESENTATIVE FOR DAMAR HAMLIN, FRIEND OF DAMAR HAMLIN: No, I do not. I've been doing interviews, the past few hours. And we're not going to officially comment, on his medical condition, until we have a major update.

COOPER: How is his family holding up?

ROONEY: I mean, they are - they're strong. I mean, they're strong individuals. It's one of the best support systems, I think, someone could have. And they know, Damar. So, they're optimistic, based on knowing their son.

COOPER: There's a GoFundMe toy drive that Damar started back in 2020. It's been receiving, I know, you know, a huge surge in donations. Can you just talk a little bit about where that's at now, and what Damar was initially raising the money for?

ROONEY: Yes. So, back when Damar was a college student, he wanted to have a toy drive. So, he started a GoFundMe. It's before an NFL paycheck. And he's had the toy drive every year. This year, we actually had two toy drives, one in Pittsburgh, one in Buffalo.

I think when he was injured, people were just looking for something, to support. And that was the only thing that was available, at the time. So, everyone just started giving to that.

So, it's not just going to a toy drive. It's going to - he does a back-to-school program. He does a summer program, summer camp. So, his Foundation, Chasing M's Foundation, it really helps us support young people, chasing their dreams, in Pittsburgh.

COOPER: You've known Damar, a long time, I understand. What is he like? I mean, what should people know about him?

ROONEY: Yes, I mean, it's, I mean, you can see even just the response of the people, who do know him. I mean, this is someone that I mean, he's selfless. I mean, he's charismatic. He's super-caring.

He is always looking out for others. Doesn't matter how he's feeling, what went on that day, really giving himself to others, making sure other people in the room feel welcome, feel appreciated, feel inspired. That's who he is.

And, I mean, he's extremely driven. Has his own brand, his own company. He's always sending me ideas of things that he wants to do. He's an act of mind. And I think that's been a huge advantage for him in life.

COOPER: Yes. Well, Jordon Rooney, I appreciate talking to you. And, again, I'm sorry, it's under these circumstances.

ROONEY: Thank you.


COOPER: I'm joined now by CNN's Coy Wire, a former Buffalo Bills player, who was with us, last night, when the news broke.

Coy, you spoke with members of the Bills organization, tonight. What are they telling you about how everybody's doing?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR, FORMER BUFFALO BILLS PLAYER: Yes, Anderson, after speaking with people, here, within the organization, this team is exhausted, as you can imagine, physically, spiritually, emotionally, after watching their teammate, Damar Hamlin, needing to have his heartbeat restored, on the field, in front of them.

The team didn't land here, in Buffalo, until 3:30, in the morning, this morning. And they are still processing what they witnessed. I'm told that they are in a wait-and-see mode, players, coaches, alike. And they have no idea what the hours ahead might hold, Anderson. And that is a feeling that they do not like.

I'm told, Head Coach, Sean McDermott may choose to speak, tomorrow, to bring more, context, to the situation. But understandably, Anderson, he may not be ready. They still have a young man, in critical condition, in Damar Hamlin, fighting for his life, in the hospital.

COOPER: The Buffalo Bills obviously have very loyal followers, and fans. The response to what has happened has been extraordinary.

WIRE: Yes, the moment you land here, in Buffalo, in the airport, you're walking through, and you see signs, and T-shirts, the "Pray for Damar." The Buffalo Sabres, playing tonight, the players wearing T- shirts with his number, and those same words on it.

There were prayer services, in both Cincinnati and here, today, in Buffalo. All the people, speaking today, were asked to come and try to give in some hope, and inspiration, in this moment.


One of them was Jill Kelly, wife of Bills' legend, and Hall of Famer, Jim Kelly. Here's a bit of what she had to say.


JILL KELLY, WIFE OF FORMER BILLS QUARTERBACK JIM KELLY: Coming from a football family, and coming from the Bills' family, we were broken. And Jim is a wreck. And it is family. And Damar's family to us, and we consider him a brother.


WIRE: Damar is on the minds, and in the prayers, of so many people, here, in Buffalo, and beyond.

Anderson, I've heard you mentioned their GoFundMe, his charity, was aiming to raise $2,500. It's to well over $5 million, at this point. That speaks volumes of how people are feeling about this young man. COOPER: Yes. Coy Wire, appreciate, talking to you. Thank you so much, Coy.

More on the injuries, to Damar Hamlin, and a report, on the NFL safety record, when it comes to players, when we come back.


COOPER: Again, our other Breaking News, this hour, Damar Hamlin's uncle tells us that Buffalo Bills player is on a ventilator, still not breathing on his own. The Uncle also told CNN that Hamlin, who's in critical condition, had to be resuscitated twice, last night, after the blow, he took, during a football game.


The injury to Hamlin has revived the question of whether the NFL is adequately prioritizing player safety. CNN's Sanjay Gupta has more.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Other players are holding hands, praying. You can just see the worried looks, on their faces.

DONTE STALLWORTH, FORMER NFL WIDE RECEIVER: This is a brutal sport. And I think people forget that. They look at these players more as commodity, sometimes.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a sport that's almost been celebrated, for its violence.

In fact, legend has it that Midshipman, Joseph Mason Reeves, a football star, at the U.S. Naval Academy, was warned by his doctor that another big hit to the head could lead to, quote, "Instant insanity."

But so desperate to play in the Army Navy game of 1893, Reeves had a shoemaker create the first helmet, a moleskin cap with earflaps. It was little more than a leather sock, over the head, providing little protection.

The Game graduated from college campuses, to form the National Football League, in 1920. But helmets of any sort wouldn't be required, in the League, for another 23 years. And it was at least another decade, before face masks were incorporated.

But even with more advanced equipment, the Game continued to take a physical toll, on players, especially when it came to their heads.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, we hit the head, we play with the head.

GUPTA (voice-over): But in 2002, former Pittsburgh Steeler, Mike Webster, died, and was diagnosed at autopsy, with Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, the neurodegenerative disease, linked to repeated head injuries. He was the first NFL player, diagnosed with CTE. And those three letters would forever change the game. FRED MCNEILL, FORMER NFL LINEBACKER: Then you can control it.

GUPTA (voice-over): Especially, for players, like former Minnesota Viking, Fred McNeill.

GUPTA (on camera): What has it done to you?

MCNEILL: Well, the impact is on memory. I mean, people, and they talk about the conversation that we had, you know, two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, or a month ago, or whatever. And - and - and I don't remember.

GUPTA (on camera): If we saw each other again, would you remember me?

MCNEILL: Sanjay, I don't know.

GUPTA (voice-over): McNeill died, five years, after this interview, and was diagnosed with CTE, by Dr. Bennet Omalu, whose character was featured, by Will Smith, in the movie, "Concussion?"

GUPTA (on camera): How many blows to the head, does it take, to cause this sort of problem?

DR. BENNET OMALU, NEUROPATHOLOGIST: It's like asking how many sticks of cigarettes are safe.

GUPTA (on camera): Right, right.

OMALU: We don't know.

GUPTA (voice-over): The focus on concussions pushed the League to implement, over 50 rule changes, since 2002, including making head-to- head contact, a foul; moving kickoffs, from the 30 yard line, to the 35 yard line; and introducing spotters, to eye, for potential blows, to the head.

But an independent study, from 2020, still concluded the new rules, as well intentioned as they may be, have proven to be too weak, to make the NFL game, demonstrably safer. The amount of time players sat out, because of injuries, had not changed, they said, between 2010 and 2019.

Though, according to the NFL, the League has sustained a 25 percent drop, in concussions, each season, between 2018 and 2021.

GUPTA (on camera): You're hearing, I'm sure, from a lot of players, saying, "Are these protocols working? Are they doing enough to keep us safe?" What would you say to that?

DR. ALLEN SILLS, NFL'S CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER: We try to use every one of these situations, as a learning opportunity, as an opportunity to get better, and again, to do that in a very transparent manner.

GUPTA (voice-over): This year, Miami Dolphins quarterback, Tua Tagovailoa, took a hit, and played on, despite having an apparent head injury. A few days later, he was hit again, and concussed. As a result, the League updated their concussion protocol, now requiring an even more conservative approach, to dealing with concussions.

But most everyone agrees with this. Going back to the days, of Joseph Mason Reeves, rules don't trump culture and history, a history full of big hits, and broken dreams. The best you can do is make it safer, but no, not safe.

RODNEY MCLEOD JR., INDIANAPOLIS COLTS SAFETY: What we saw, last night, was something that we've never seen before. In my 11 years, in NFL, I've never experienced anything like that. And that brings the reality to the sport to life.

GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.


COOPER: Well Hamlin's injury, of course, has been a moment of reflection, both for his teammates, and others, who have played, what's often a brutal sport.

Perspective now, from Ben Watson, a former tight end, and Super Bowl champion, who played across 15 seasons, in the NFL.

Benjamin, thanks so much, for being with us.

What was your reaction, to what happened, last night?

BENJAMIN WATSON, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Anderson, it was a shock, like everybody else. I mean, as a football player, over 16 years, in National Football League, you're used to seeing injuries.


But we had just turned the TV on. My kids aren't quite in school yet. They start actually, on Wednesday. And so, we said, "You know what? You guys can stay up, and watch the first quarter." And we turned it on, just as the incident happened, with Damar. And we were all in shock. We were all quiet. And then, as time went on, and the commercial break started to mount, we realized that this was something that was very serious.

COOPER: I was talking to Coy Wire, who played for the Bills, a while ago, and last night, after this happened.

And one of the things he was saying is that football is, one of the few professions, where a team - people pray, before they go out on the field. Because, part of it is, they know the danger that they are facing, when they go out, on that field. It's not just about winning the game. It's about getting through the game unscathed. And they know how easily something like this can happen.

Do you think about that every time you go on the field?

WATSON: One thing, you learn, very early, in football, is that football is 100-percent-injury sport.

Now, while what happened to Damar, yesterday, isn't in that realm of what most football players would consider, to be probable injuries, we understand that these things happen, when you have high-speed collisions, with world-class athletes. It's something that makes the game exciting, but it's also something that makes you very sober. And it's a scary part of the game.

And I think what you saw was just a reaction, of players, when their brother went down, somebody who they made meals with, and they've bled with, and they've gone through training camp with, and somebody that you truly get to know, and get to love.

And so, that's why you see both sides, like it didn't matter that one team was from Cincinnati, one team's from Buffalo. When something happens within the Brotherhood, there's a hurt there.

But part of the reason, as you mentioned before, that we pray before we go out, is number one, for unity. But also, we understand that we aren't in control of everything.

COOPER: To me, it's such a reminder, not only of the violence of, that is at the heart of the game of football, but it's the frailty of human life that somebody in their prime, an incredible athlete, at the top of their game, life can change, in the blink of an eye. And it can, for all of us.

WATSON: You're exactly right. These times bring us face-to-face, with our own mortality. And we all have a day to be born, and we all have a day to die. And so often, in between those two points, we feel invincible.

Whether you're a professional athlete, or whether you're at the top of your profession, whether you're feeling healthy, you understand that sometimes there's a reminder that "Hey, all of us have an appointment with death."

But I think after that it also makes us realize "Where are we? Where do our hearts stand? If that were to be us, laying on the field, or if that were to be us, laying in a hospital, what would our next steps be?"

And so, on the flip side, it was such a tragic event. There is tremendous opportunity. Part of my prayers, right now, Anderson, is for the players, in both of those locker rooms, for the chaplains, who I know very well, who are, right now, counseling and comforting players, who saw a brother, in a near-death experience, and who is still fighting for his life.

Because, the questions, about "What happens after this life? Where will you spend eternity?" as you mentioned, Anderson, are coming up for all of us, not just for the football players. But thank God that he provides an answer, through his son, Jesus Christ.

COOPER: Also, it makes one think of what would you - what would you do differently, in your life, now, if suddenly you knew, your end was near? I mean, how does it make you rethink your own life, and how you carry yourself, in your own life? Do you think this - does this change anything about how the game is played? Or - I mean, it's such a rare occurrence, in this particular condition that occurred. But I mean does this change the game in any way?

WATSON: I think that remains to be seen. I will say this though, Anderson. Every single time, there is something happening, to do with player safety, or a player is injured in some way? The NFLPA, the NFL, take a look at different protocols. There was always an ongoing conversation. I don't know specifically how this incident would change.

I'm so glad you mentioned, what would we do differently in our life? And I can say that for me, even today, after watching what I saw, last night, and even after having conversations, with family members? It makes you live in the moment. It makes you appreciate, right now.

It makes you even elevate. What we've seen, from Damar, in his toy drives, and stuff for kids that, has gone through the roof, since his injury? It's about making a difference, for people, right now. And not only speaking to the physical side, but speaking to the spirit of every single man, woman and child that you come in contact with.

COOPER: Yes. Benjamin Watson, I appreciate talking to you, tonight. Thank you. And, again, I'm sorry, it's under these circumstances. But thank you.

WATSON: Thank you, sir.


COOPER: More ahead, on the Idaho quadruple murder case. Suspect Bryan Kohberger will be extradited. The question is when.

And we'll show you one of two times, he was stopped by Police, while driving cross country, weeks before his arrest.

We'll talk to a former FBI criminal profiler also, about if the suspect's past might be harder for prosecutors, to make their case.


COOPER: Today, we got a first look, at the Idaho quadruple murder suspect, inside a courthouse. As we mentioned, last hour, Bryan Kohberger, agreed to be extradited, from Pennsylvania, to face charges, in the killings of four University of Idaho students, in November.

We also showed you newly obtained body camera footage, of an Indiana State Police Officer, stopping him, on an interstate, two weeks before his arrest, after the murders. Completely unrelated to the murder case, it was a traffic stop.

Here's that again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) Please take out your license and registration.

I stopped you when you were driving by me there you were a little too close to the back of that semi (inaudible) back of his trailer.


COOPER: Well, that was one of two Police encounters that day.

CNN's Gary Tuchman joins us now, live, from Moscow, Idaho.


When do we expect the suspect to be back, in the State?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, authorities here, in Idaho and Pennsylvania, say they can't tell us, when the suspect will arrive, here, in Moscow, Idaho, for security reasons. We do know the rule is he has to be back here, within 10 days. It's entirely conceivable he could arrive, as early as tomorrow.

When he gets here, he'll come to this building, behind me. This is the Latah County Courthouse. It doubles as a Latah County jail. This is where he will be staying for a while.

When he arrives, it allows authorities, here, to finally release the probable cause affidavit, which has not been released publicly. That affidavit will provide answers, as to why this man was arrested.

Right now, we are standing, literally, just over a mile away from the house, where the four students were savagely murdered.

When the suspect comes here, he will have an initial theory. He won't make a plea, at that hearing. He will be advised of his rights, and the protocol of the process. He will then have a preliminary hearing, Anderson, where he will then make a plea.

This is a death penalty. State prosecutors will have to make a decision, whether to seek it.


COOPER: I also want to ask you about the video that we just played, showing this suspect, being pulled over two weeks before he was arrested. What more do we know about it?

TUCHMAN: Yes, it's so chilling, when you look at it in retrospect. But he was stopped twice. And we believe it was within 10 minutes of each other, by two different Police officers. He was in the driver's seat. His father was in the passenger seat. It was 15 days, before he was arrested.

They left from Washington State University, where the suspect, was a student and a teacher's assistant, which is about 15 minutes away from us, here, in Moscow, Idaho, just across the State border. But he was stopped twice in Indiana. Both times, he wasn't given a ticket. He was allowed to leave, and did not arouse any suspicion.

COOPER: Yes. Yes, fascinating.

Gary Tuchman, appreciate it, thanks so much.

COOPER: More now on the investigation with retired FBI Special Agent and Profiler, Mary Ellen O'Toole. She's Director of the Forensic Science program at George Mason University.

Also joining us, CNN Legal Analyst, and defense attorney, Joey Jackson.

First of all, Joey, once the suspect's returns to Idaho, we're anticipating the probable cause affidavit is going to be released. There's a lot to be learned from that document, correct?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, there's no question about that, Anderson. Very, very specific things, I think, with respect to what the Police did, or what they, unearthed, to believe that there's probable cause, for his arrest.

Like what? Like what connection of DNA might exist, within that household, as we look at him there, the suspect, and now the defendant in the case? They did a lot of DNA work. I think it'll spell out the DNA.

I think we'll hear something about the Elantra, with respect to what's - traveling, with regard to its connection, to this particular event.

We may or may not hear about something concerning any pre-existing relationship, if any, as it relates to the victims. There may be surveillance, in terms of him, whether he trailed, or otherwise surveilled, or looked, or did whatever he may have done, as it relates to looking at, and seeking out these particular victims.

There may be witness interview statements. There'll be a bevy of information with respect to what led Police to believe, and are leading them to believe that he in fact, is guilty, of these murders, in Idaho.

COOPER: Mary Ellen, I mean, is there something specific, you'd be looking for, in terms of figuring out a motive, in that affidavit?

MARY ELLEN O'TOOLE, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT - PROFILER, DIRECTOR, FORENSIC SCIENCE PROGRAM AT GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY: Well, absolutely, I would be looking for all the behavioral information, all the factual information, and all the forensics, and attempt to assimilate those together, in order to discern, what the motivation, or motivations, could have been, in this case. And any crime, even a simple one, but certainly one like this, that's very complicated? There's never just one motive. There are multiple motives. And so, I would be looking for all those features, to begin, to discern what the motives were.

COOPER: Mary Ellen, how - I mean, his studies, and his interest, in criminology, would that have helped him, in whether it's, I mean, in planning something like this out?

ELLEN O'TOOLE: Two prongs to that question.

So, for some offenders, it could give them almost a false sense of thinking that they know more than what they know. And I've certainly seen that in other cases. On the other hand, there could be information you glean, from getting a Masters, and working towards a doctorate in criminology, that can be helpful.

But I will say this. When you are the suspect, of a very complicated, very serious crime? Now you are the focus of that attention. And so, it's difficult, to stay, thinking strategically, like you would, as a student, as you navigate your way, through the criminal justice system. And for most offenders, they can't do that. They become overwhelmed and fearful of every step of the road.

So, it remains to be seen what the alleged suspect's behavior, and response, will be, in this case.


COOPER: Joey, the suspect's lawyer, in Pennsylvania, says his client, and he seems to be only his client, for the purpose of the extradition proceeding, believes he's going to be exonerated. That's what the attorney said.

How much do you do read into that in terms of what's likely, to happen in court, in Idaho, and any subsequent legal strategy?

JACKSON: Yes. So what happens, Anderson, is the defense attorney's job is twofold.

Number one, to manage the public, and really, the public relations aspect of it, the attorney has to project a sense of confidence, a sense of innocence, a sense of "You got the wrong guy."

Number two, with respect to legally, that's going to be predicated, not on anything that he says. That is the defendant, or the defense attorney. But that'll be predicated upon the evidence.

If there's DNA, why was it there? Was there any basis or reason for you to be in that particular location? If your Elantra was there, can you explain away why it might have been? Is there any alibi that can take you away, from this particular incident, or event? Is there any reasonable or plausible explanation, as to potentially it being someone else?

And so, why do I say those things, Anderson? I say them, because trials are about specific facts that either connect you, or disconnect you, from the event at issue. And no matter what bluster, his defense attorney says or doesn't say, let's see what the evidence shows.

And to your original point, last point I'll make, is the probable cause affidavit, when it is released, that'll give us a roadmap, into how strong the evidence is, and then the defense will know what they need to challenge, in order to get a not-guilty verdict, in the event the case goes that way.

COOPER: Mary Ellen, you were just talking about how somebody, who has committed a crime, once they're in the criminal justice system, it feels differently, for them, than they had planned.

Before they get into the criminal justice system, is somebody, who has thought out, and planned a crime, like this, is once they have committed that crime, does - is it often different than they had anticipated?

ELLEN O'TOOLE: If it's the first time they did it, it can be very different.

But, in the end, it really depends on their personality. Is this someone that after the case, they feel exhilarated? They're glad they committed it? They're thinking through, "Hey, I didn't make a mistake here. No, this is fine. And this is fine." So, it really is going to depend on the personality of the offender, in terms of what their reaction is, after the crime was committed.

COOPER: And Mary Ellen, we heard from Jean Casarez, earlier that the suspect shared moments, with his family, in court, today, mouthing, "I love you," to his family, nodding to them, multiple times.

I mean, is there any rulebook, for how people, accused of heinous crimes, behave in court? Is there anything you read into that?

ELLEN O'TOOLE: No, there really isn't. We've had a range of behavior, in crimes, over the years. And offenders will come in, and they see their family there. And it makes them feel good. They need the support. They want the support. So, they have a response that they will give.

In other cases, we've had offenders take the stand, and get married, in the courtroom. We've had offenders pass out, and feign heart attacks, in the courtroom. So, there's no rulebook for, for any of this.

COOPER: Joey, were you surprised that he didn't fight extradition?

JACKSON: I was not. Especially if he's defending, and he says that he's looking forward to be exonerated, it's really difficult, to really match that narrative. You look forward to being exonerated, yet you want to delay your movement, to the State, at issue, Idaho, so that you could fight extradition.

And so, again, that's not to suggest that he's guilty or innocent. We'll see moving forward. But, and at the end of the day, also, extradition is somewhat of a formality. "Are you the person who's identified?" If the State wants, you can establish that. Can they establish that there's probable cause that a crime was committed? If they can establish that you go. It delays the process. But it certainly, other than that, does not impede the road to justice--

COOPER: Right.

JACKSON: --other than time. So, I'm not surprised at all.

COOPER: Joey Jackson, appreciate it.

Mary Ellen O'Toole, always thank you.

Coming up, next, a live update, on the medical condition, of actor, Jeremy Renner, and the, best update, possible, from, Jeremy Renner, himself, ahead.



COOPER: Well it's nice to be able to report, this next item.

An Instagram post, from actor, Jeremy Renner, his first, since being run over by his own snow plowing - a snow plowing vehicle. Renner posted this hospital bed selfie, and a brief statement, which reads, "Thank you all for your kind words. I'm too messed up now to type. But I send love to you all."

Joining us now, with more, CNN Entertainment Reporter, Chloe Melas.

So, what is the latest?

CHLOE MELAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: So, I've spoken to Jeremy's publicist, right as he posted, this update, on Instagram. And this is what she's saying.

She says that he's "Making positive progress." He's talking. He's awake. He's in good spirits, obviously, as we see in that Instagram post. But that he is overwhelmed by the showing of love and support, and that the family is asking for the continued thoughts, while he heals, with his close loved ones.

I mean, Anderson, we know that he underwent two surgeries. He had that blunt force trauma to the chest. Let's not forget that we learned today, at a press conference that that snowcat was over 14,000 pounds. So obviously, he's lucky to be alive.

COOPER: And do we know what actually happened, with the accident?

MELAS: We do. So, there was a press conference, this evening, by the Washoe County Sheriff's Department, and they actually detail what happened.

Take a listen.


SHERIFF DARIN BALAAM, WASHOE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: After successfully towing his personal vehicle from its stuck location, Mr. Renner got out of his PistenBully, to speak to his family member. At this point, it is observed that the PistenBully started to roll.

In an effort to stop the rolling PistenBully, Mr. Renner attempts to get back into the driver's seat of the PistenBully. Based on our investigation, it's at this point that Mr. Renner is run over by the PistenBully.


MELAS: So, he's lucky that his family members were there, a nephew of his, some neighbors. They rushed to his aid. They brought him towels. They called 9-1-1.

COOPER: So, we accidentally cut off that. He rushed - he tried to get back in it?


COOPER: And he got run over by it?

MELAS: So, he used the snowcat, that's, again, 14,000 pounds, to tow a vehicle of his that had gotten stuck, in the snow, in his driveway.

COOPER: Right.

MELAS: The Sheriff says that there was about three feet of snow, and like we said last night, there was unprecedented snowfall, in the area.

COOPER: Right.


MELAS: So, he successfully removes the car out of the snow. And then, he gets off the snowcat, to talk to his family member.


MELAS: And then that's when the snowcat starts to roll. He jumps up onto it, but then somehow doesn't successfully get up onto the snowcat, and it could have crushed him, could have killed him. But, like I said, there's some neighbors, some people, who rushed to his aid, called 9-1-1.

But here's something interesting. In this press conference, they stated that it took over 30 minutes, for Police, to respond to the scene, due to closed - the closed roads--

COOPER: Right.

MELAS: --all of the tough conditions, in the area, and over an hour, until he was able to be airlifted--

COOPER: Wow! That's terrible!

MELAS: --to a local hospital.

So again, this Instagram post, from him, tonight?

COOPER: Yes. MELAS: This new statement?

COOPER: Great.

MELAS: It's wonderful news. But again, it could have been much worse.

COOPER: Yes. Chloe Melas, appreciate it. Thank you so much.

MELAS: Thank you.

COOPER: The news continues. "CNN TONIGHT" with Laura Coates is next, right after a short break.


LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Well, good evening, everyone. I'm Laura Coates. And this is CNN TONIGHT.

And can we just say, what a day! It's been a day of chaos, on Capitol Hill.