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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Police: Failed GOP Candidate Arrested On Suspicion Of Orchestrating Shootings At Home Of New Mexico Democrats; Brian Walshe To Be Formally Charged With Murder Tomorrow, More Than Two Weeks After His Wife, Ana Walshe Vanished; Former Friend Of Rep. George Santos On His Web Of Lies; Trump Criticizes Evangelical Leaders For Not Backing His 2024 Presidential Bid; Indiana Man Facing Felony Charge After Toddler Shown On Live TV With Handgun. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 17, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: Now, Mayorkas for his part says that he will not resign the Department of Homeland Security, instead putting the onus on Congress and saying that they should be passing immigration and reform instead.
But, Erin, to your earlier point, this is very rare. The only Cabinet official impeached was in 1876.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: A lot of historical precedent being broken these days. Thank you very much, Priscilla.
And thanks so much to all of you for being with us.
AC 360 starts now.
[20:00:27]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
We begin tonight, keeping them honest, with some signs of the times in their political climate today. They run the gamut from the downright dangerous to merely troubling to the absurd.
It is fair to ask if there is a thread connecting all of them, some kind of political philosophy or nihilism driving it or whether this is just a moment for whatever reason that is ripe for almost everything and nearly anything.
One example, in New Mexico, four homes shot at belonging police say to Democratic elected officials. The man now in custody and charged in connection with the crimes, a Republican who lost his State House race in a landslide, then refused to concede.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBBIE O'MALLEY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, BERNALILLO COUNTY, NEW MEXICO: He seemed agitated. He seemed a little aggressive to me. I didn't consider him a threat then, but he was upset that he had lost the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That is Debbie O'Malley, who joins us shortly. She says to police that her home was hit 12 times, maybe more. She is talking about the man in custody, Solomon Pena, who tweeted just after the election: "Trump just announced for 2024. I stand with him I never conceded my HD 14 race. Now, researching my options."
The option he allegedly chose was politically motivated, potentially deadly violence: A sign of the times just a few weeks after the second anniversary of the January 6th attack and its carbon copy version this year in Brazil.
Also today, this guy, Congressman Paul Gosar, the 2020 election denier who once tweeted an anime-style edited video that shoot a character who looks like him killing a character meant to be Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. He has also been a conspiracy theorist who is cozy with White nationalists, so much so that after a speaking appearance last February at a White nationalist conference, then House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy told CNN's Melanie Zanona and I quote: "to me, it was appalling and wrong. There's no place in our party for any of this." Adding, "This is unacceptable."
Well, today, now Speaker McCarthy overseeing a slim Republican majority, Congressman Gosar got a Committee seat back.
The other House member who spoke at that conference also got a Committee assignment today, Homeland Security for Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, the one who once said this about the attack that gave rise to the very department she now oversees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): But we had witnessed 9/11, right? We have witnessed 9/11, the terrorist attack in New York and the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, and the so-called plane that crashed into the Pentagon. It's odd. There has never any evidence shown for a plane in the Pentagon.
But anyways, I won't -- I'm not going to dive into the 9/11 conspiracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, she of course, has dabbled if not dove into many others from QAnon to White nationalism to bizarre antisemitic notions about space lasers causing California wildfires to the 2020 election.
Again, she is now on the Committee overseeing the Department of Homeland Security, a sign of the times.
So is this, newly minted member of two House Committees, serial liar George Santos, who said this back in 2020, on a newly surfaced tape about the volleyball team he never played for at the college he never attended.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): You know, it's funny, I actually went to school on a volleyball scholarship.
HOST: You did?
SANTOS: I did. Yes. When I was in Baruch, we were the number one volleyball.
HOST: Did you graduate from Baruch? Did you graduate from there?
SANTOS: Yes.
HOST: So did I. So did I.
SANTOS: So very cool. Great school. Great institution. Very simple, but very good. But it's funny that we went to play against Harvard, Yale, and we slayed them.
Look, I sacrificed both my knees and got very nice knee replacements from HSS playing volleyball. That's how serious I took the game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, this is weird. Who lies about playing volleyball for Baruch College? I mean, he never played for Baruch. He didn't go to Baruch. I don't know even what about his knees? I mean, I don't even know what to tell you about that.
Anyway, he is now on two House Committees, Small Business and Science, Space and Technology. Perhaps one step ahead of Federal investigators.
Bizarre to be sure, harmless maybe, but another sign of the times.
More now and the most troubling of them, the shootings in New Mexico and the man now in custody in connection with them.
CNN's Kyung Lah reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'MALLEY: One came right through here, and then we've got the rest over here.
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): About a dozen bullets embedded in the outside of Debbie O'Malley's home.
O'MALLEY: I was very angry, and just disgusted about the whole thing.
LAH (on camera): These are significantly-sized holes.
O'MALLEY: They are. It was so loud. This happened when my husband and I were asleep.
[20:05:00 ]
LAH (voice over): O'Malley immediately suspected who the gunman might be, this man.
SOLOMON PENA, EX-GOP NEW MEXICO CANDIDATE: Hi, my name is Solomon Pena. Can I speak with Debbie O'Malley.
LAH (voice over): Solomon Pena, who had been looking for O'Malley went to her daughter's address and then to her home a month before the shooting. This is him on the other side of the fence.
O'MALLEY: He seemed agitated. He seemed a little aggressive to me. I didn't consider him a threat then, but he was upset that he had lost the election.
LAH (voice over): Police arrested him Monday in connection with a string of what they call politically motivated shootings of homes of four Democratic leaders in New Mexico. No one was injured.
CHIEF HAROLD MEDINA, ALBUQUERQUE POLICE: It is believed that he is the mastermind that was behind this.
LAH (voice over): Police say he is suspected of hiring a contractor for cash to commit at least two of the four shootings from December 4th to January 3rd.
Pena was a Republican candidate for a State House seat in New Mexico and he spent years in prison for burglary and larceny, but a Judge allowed the convicted felon to be on the ballot in 2022, calling it unconstitutional for Pena to be denied the ability to serve.
PENA: I have nothing more than a desire to improve my lot.
LAH (voice over): He lost in November by a landslide, then accused his opponent of rigging the election. Wearing a MAGA sweatshirt, Pena tweeted he stands with Trump, and he never conceded his own race in New Mexico -- election denialism.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are some shenanigans going on.
LAH (voice over): That he heard at Trump rallies like this one in Phoenix in 2021, Pena tweeted this picture saying he camped out all night to see Trump.
Photographs on the arrest warrant show Pena pictured with this man. The warrant alleges he is one of the suspected shooters who was arrested with a gun used in one of the shootings.
Police say Pena texted the home addresses of four Democratic targets to four suspects to carry out the shootings and in an exchange, texted, they just certified it. They sold us out to the highest bidder. They were literally laughing at us while they were doing it,
COMMISSIONER ADRIANN BARBOA, BERNALILLO COUNTY: Everybody is going to have to be more worried now.
LAH (voice over): Bernalillo County Commissioner Adriann Barboa was also targeted. Four bullets ripped through her home into the room where she had just been playing with her granddaughter. BARBOA: It makes me angry that one person, it makes it angry that we have a former President and current elected officials in highest level of government that think it's okay to, you know, invoke violence in these situations.
So yes, it is a range of emotions -- anger, sad, disappointment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Kyung Lah joins us now in Albuquerque. What is the sources you have spoken with think is at the root of Pena's actions?
LAH: It's a little bit of election denialism, a little bit of refusal to accept the truth, but if you talk to the victims, what they will really drill down on is they believe this is online radicalization, as well as targeting of local officials.
Domestic terrorism is what I keep hearing from the people who are being targeted, and it's not just here in Albuquerque, Anderson, it is happening at the local level from Detroit to Madison, to the East Coast to the West. And this is something universal, that's happening to people who would come face-to-face with these angry people just in their County Commission meetings or in their City Council meetings, or School Board meetings.
So as far as this larger problem, it's not over, it is continuing because of this denialism that is happening at the very highest levels of government. But as far as what is happening here, Anderson, Pena will make his first Court appearance tomorrow -- Anderson.
COOPER: Kyung Lah, appreciate it. Thank you.
Joining us now is Debbie O'Malley, who you saw and Kyung Lah's report.
Debbie, I appreciate you being with us. I'm sorry this happened to you. Can you just take us through what happened when your house came under gunfire? Did you know what was going on?
O'MALLEY: Not initially.
What happened was, my husband and I really just sat up in bed. I thought somebody was pounding on my door with their fist.
We do have family around the corner. I thought maybe this was some kind of an emergency situation. But when we sat up, we heard more shots. And we knew it was gunfire.
And so we didn't -- my husband didn't discover the wall, the holes in the wall until the next day and we are just very shocked by the whole thing. It's very disturbing.
COOPER: And Solomon Pena, the man who has been arrested in connection with these shootings, he actually came to your house. How long before the shootings did he come to the house and what happened when he showed up? O'MALLEY: He came after the General Election, so November 10th. He went to my former address first, and that's the video that you're seeing now. Then, you know, the resident told him where I was, which was fine. I mean, we do get people once in a while who come to our homes. You know, I've lived here, I was born here, family has been here a long time, so it was --
[20:10:06]
You know, we see that, we don't, you know, normally consider that threatening. So he did go to my home. He approached my gate. I did meet him there and he expressed his frustration over the election and he was very aggressive about it, very angry about it truly, and felt that -- he told me, oh, I've knocked on all these doors, and it doesn't reflect -- the vote doesn't reflect all the doors I've knocked on, and I tried to explain to him that doesn't equate, you know, door knocking with you know, getting the vote.
COOPER: Wait a minute. He actually said to you that, while he because he was running and he knocked on a lot of doors, the vote count was not accurate because he interacted with a lot of human beings, but he thought some of them would have voted for him.
O'MALLEY: Exactly.
COOPER: Is your district overwhelmingly Democratic?
O'MALLEY: Mine is. The district that he is running in is like 75 percent performing Democrat. So usually a Republican doesn't even run in that district.
COOPER: So it's not as if -- I mean, it just yet another reason he should not have been surprised that he lost.
O'MALLEY: Correct? If he had been thinking about it, and he would have -- yes, come to that conclusion. Anybody would have come to that conclusion, you would think.
COOPER: Do you worry that this is, I mean, a sign of the times that this is the new normal, this kind of stuff?
O'MALLEY: Well, this -- it is, unfortunately -- I never expected this. I've been in elected office for 20 years, local elected office. I did not anticipate this at all, for this to happen to our homes, my colleagues, that's a direct threat to me and my family. It angers me very much.
A lot of it has to do with all the -- you know, what's going on nationally, this narrative about voter fraud, of course, and then it's like about, you know, people feeling like they've been cheated and on and on. That's part of it.
And unfortunately, you know, it's come to our home. I have neighbors who are very supportive, I have families who are very supportive. So you know, I'm not going to let this deter what I need to do, but it's very disturbing and upsetting, nonetheless, COOPER: It's also disturbing, because I mean, the people who, you know, are at the heart who are spreading this rhetoric, it doesn't affect them, they can do it from their well-lit home studios, you know, on podcasts and cable news shows, it doesn't affect them. It's the messages that they're spreading though go out and apparently people like this guy, you know, run with them and actually take action based on them.
O'MALLEY: No, you're right. You're right, from the safety of their homes. You know, they're spreading these lies. We've got gullible people who don't question anything. You know, I am surprised that people question anything sometimes.
With this, they have, in their own minds have decided that, you know, Trump is all knowing, and he doesn't, you know, he's not flawed in any way. I mean, as an elected representative, I know, we're all flawed, right? We are going to be questioned, we are going to be challenged. That's democracy.
But this direct threat, these kinds of things, those are -- that's just wrong. And, well, it is un-American, really.
COOPER: Debbie O'Malley, I really appreciate talking to you and I'm so sorry. I mean, this is just wrong that this happened to you and I really appreciate all you do. Thank you.
O'MALLEY: Thank you.
COOPER: Perspective now from CNN senior law enforcement analyst, Andrew McCabe, former Deputy Director at the FBI.
Andrew, I mean, it's just -- it is pathetic, it is sad that this is happening and I guess, the sign of the times.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, Anderson. It is pathetic and sad, but it is also really alarming. You know, I think it's just another indicator that we have really moved into a new period in American political life and political culture. We are becoming a country where people resort to political -- resort to violence to settle political disputes.
I mean, that is not -- you know, we've had on the margins, political groups that have engaged in violence in our history, but this is a new thing in the modern era, and it's a time that our law enforcement and Intelligence entities really need to rethink how they are assessing the current state of threats, internal domestic threats to this country and where those threats are coming from because this is a different place than the domestic terrorism environment that we thought about and that we tried to mitigate, you know, certainly when I was in the FBI over the course of my career.
COOPER: I mean, what would that look like? What can the FBI and the branches of law enforcement do to respond? I mean, not just respond to after the fact to try to prevent these kinds of things from happening.
MCCABE: Well, this isn't a situation that the FBI or any law enforcement entity can completely solve. But from their perspective, there are some things they can do. The first thing is they need to really rethink how they assess and consider the threat.
You know, years ago, there was a time in this country when we faced the threat from environmental rights groups and animal rights extremists. And, of course, that's past. Those groups have really receded.
So these domestic threats are constantly changing. It's time for the FBI to think about where the threat is actually coming from domestically in this country right now.
I think they missed the ball in the lead up to January 6th, and I think part of that is some of this, you know, older approach to domestic terrorism, where we think about distinct groups like the Ku Klux Klan and racially motivated extremists and things like that.
We're living in a different time now, and we have to embrace the fact or at least acknowledge the fact that a large part of this threat comes from a broad spectrum of groups that are united around conservative political ideology. It doesn't mean that all conservatives or all Republicans are domestic terrorists, I'm not saying that, but many of these groups that are motivated individually by antipathy towards ethnic groups or immigrants or super focused on Second Amendment rights or whatever those things may be, they are united in their support for conservative politics, and they are together resorting to violence.
We saw it on January 6th, we've seen it in groups like the Boogaloo Boys and others and now you're seeing it individually on the local level.
COOPER: Andrew McCabe, appreciate it. Thank you.
Coming up, the husband of missing mom, Ana Walshe will be charged with murder just hours from now. Prosecutors say there is more evidence coming even with her body still missing.
Plus, more on Congressman George Santos and his lies. Someone who knew him well or at least thought he did joins us ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:57]
COOPER: In just hours, the husband of Ana Walshe will be formally charged with her murder even though her body has not been found. No one has reported seeing the mother of three young children since New Year's Day.
Brian Walshe was already behind bars charged with misleading investigators. Tomorrow, he is expected back in Court, this time as an accused killer facing mounting evidence.
CNN's national correspondent, Jason Carroll has been following the story for days. He is with us now from Cohasset, Massachusetts. So what do we know about this warrant? And what led prosecutors to issue it now?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do know one thing, Anderson, and that is tomorrow that prosecutors intend to reveal more details about what they have in their case that will happen tomorrow during Brian Walshe's arraignment, but what one can theorize is, you remember what the DA said last week that they had recovered certain items, they did not specify what those items were, but one can theorize that whatever items that they did get, and law enforcement tells us that was a hacksaw at the trash facility, the bloody material that they found at the trash facilitate, that they ran these tests on these items, blood tests, DNA tests, that would then link those items to Ana Walshe.
That's in addition to the other circumstantial evidence which we know they have, in this case, things like the blood that was found in the basement, a knife that was found at the home as well. And that in addition to the patterns of behavior that Brian Walshe exhibited after his wife's disappearance, when he allegedly conducted an internet search, trying to find out how to dispose of a body and how to dismember a body.
And so these are all of the things that one would suspect will be revealed tomorrow, and that led to this murder warrant being issued -- Anderson.
COOPER: And there will be -- I mean, some of the stuff that will tomorrow, there will be new details that we have not heard at this point.
CARROLL: Yes.
COOPER: Can we also hear about a motive?
CARROLL: One would imagine, that yes --
You know, that is the big question. So many people out here, Anderson have been wondering why. Why would someone do something like this to this woman, a mother of three young children? It is something that is -- that could be presented tomorrow during the arraignment, but remember, also, in the Commonwealth in Massachusetts, a prosecutor doesn't necessarily need to show a motive for murder. In many cases, they haven't done that.
You don't need to show motive, you just need to show intent. However, that doesn't mean that that's not something that might be explored and gone over tomorrow during the arraignment as well.
COOPER: Jason Carroll, appreciate it.
With us now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, also criminal defense attorney, Mark O'Mara.
John, what do you think caused prosecutors issued the arrest warrant charging with murder now? Just getting the evidence together? JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I think they've been building towards it all last week with witnesses going into the grand jury telling them the evidence almost as they've been finding it. And I think, when you add the science to that, and that's the part we don't know.
I mean, we have an idea of a lot of the physical evidence from the complaint that was issued when they charged him with misleading investigators, but what the Massachusetts State Lab was able to put together from blood found in the basement to biological material found at this trash dump, and whether they both can be matched to the wife along with a knife and other items, that would likely be the closer for the grand jury when it came to an indictment.
COOPER Mark, the Norfolk District Attorney didn't say what degree the murder charge is and would we find that out tomorrow during the arraignment? And also, I mean, based on what we know about the case, what degree do you think it would be?
MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You so it's either first degree or second degree. My gut is, in any domestic event like this, when people know each other, traditionally, it is a second degree murder charge, that heat of passion type of charge, not first degree premeditated malice aforethought, which is necessary under the Massachusetts statute to have first degree murder.
So if I was guessing, based upon the fact that he didn't say first degree murder in the very brief press conference today, I think you're going to hear a second degree murder still a life sentence in Massachusetts, but you can be paroled and I think that's probably what's going to happen.
[20:25:08]
I was a bit surprised that it happened this quickly, but that's just, I think the evidence -- just the compelling nature of the evidence that John talked about that they've been able to put together so quickly.
COOPER: Mark, I mean, if he had made those Google searches how to dispose of 115-pound woman's body before she disappeared, had he gone to the Home Depot and spent 400 something dollars on duct tape and plastic tarps before she was known to have disappeared, that might argue for first degree murder.
O'MARA: Without questions. That was a great question. And that is if he had done any of this before the fact and evidence is that predisposition premeditation, that malice aforethought that they need, however, what he did do was do it afterwards, which suggests the opposite. It suggests no plan. It suggests no insight as to how to do it until after it was done, and now he is figuring out how to get rid of the body.
COOPER: Or John, he is just a terrible -- if he in fact, did it, you know, just didn't plan it very well and thought about it afterward. There is no body. Is there precedent for charging a murder case without a body?
MILLER: There is. I mean, think of famous cases that we know. The disappearance of Etan Patz convicted without a body. Cases like the disappearance of Gail Bierenbaum -- Gail Katz, her husband, Dr. Bierenbaum, as we later found out, pushed her out of an airplane, private plane over the ocean, never recovered the body. He was convicted.
But there is also a case right there in Quincy, Massachusetts. It dates back to 1998. Husband kills the wife, the body is never recovered, borrowed a saw from a neighbor, threw away a mattress, some biological evidence. He was convicted and he is serving two lifetimes.
COOPER: Wow. Mark, CNN confirmed today that Ana Walshe's employer was the first to report her missing to police not actually her husband. Again, with all the other circumstantial evidence to come out so far, the internet searched we talked about. I mean, it does seem like his defense attorney has her work cut out for her.
O'MARA: No question. I mean, she is a good defense attorney. I know her, but she does have her work cut out without question because it looks as though the forensic evidence is going to be compelling. It used to be twenty, thirty years ago, having a body was really helpful. Now that forensic evidence really helps, but again, we're looking at, I think, a second degree murder trial, an explanation of non-intent for the crime, but the coverup is what's going to give him the conviction, but maybe with a chance for some parole after a lengthy sentence.
COOPER: What kind of, John, details do you think would be learned at the arraignment tomorrow that would sort of help us understand what happened?
MILLER: So I think we have the potential when they release the charging document that has the details, which the District Attorney basically gave us a lot of what he had when he charged him with misleading the police.
I think we're going to see the other half of that when they've upped the charge to murder, that's going to tell us the answer to things like the hacksaw that was founded at the garbage dump from the trash that they believe was removed from his house. Is there blood on there that matches? Is there a bone matter? Did they find bone fragments at either end -- the basement or the garbage dump? And then does that match the DNA that they took from the children?
These are the things, the scientific evidence that was within, you know, million percentages that it would be anybody else that really tie a bow on cases like this.
COOPER: Mark, is there any advantage for a prosecutor to try to talk about motive at a hearing tomorrow?
O'MARA: They don't need it because he's not going to get on bond if he -- I think if he is going to charge him with second degree, and I am presuming that, then the idea of explaining some behavior, some fight, some argument that was going on in the past that sort of blew up the night that she went missing, they can, but again, I think this prosecutor is going to play close to his chest because as was said by John, there is -- or the report, there's no need to show motive at this point, so why even throw something out that can be fodder for the defense counsel?
COOPER: Yes. Mark O'Mara, appreciate it. John Miller as well, thank you.
Coming up next, back to the Santos story, and a rare opportunity to meet someone who actually knew him, once considered him a friend and now has other things to say about the man he knew was Anthony Devolder, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:32:54]
COOPER: More now on George Santos who just got tapped to serve on two House committees that we know to be true. This we know is not we played it at the top of the program. But we want to show it to you again. George Santos new audio tape of him.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
REP. GEORSE SANTOS (R-NY): You know it's funny, I actually went to school on a volleyball scholarship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did?
SANTOS: I did. Yes. When I was in Baruch, we were the number one volleyball.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you graduate from Baruch?
SANTOS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, did I.
SANTOS: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, did I.
SANTOS: Oh, very cool. It's a great school, great institution, very liberal, but very good. But it's funny that we went to play against Harvard, Yale, and we play slayed them. Look, I sacrifice both my knees and got very nice knee replacements from HSS playing volleyball. That's how serious I took the game.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: OK, again, he didn't go to Baruch, he didn't play volleyball. I don't know how they did against Harvard and Yale, but he wasn't on the team. I don't even know if they have a volleyball team. I don't know about his kneecaps. If I ever interview him, I will ask him. So, most of that's just not true. Again, the kneecaps we can vouch for one way or another.
So, the question is, who is this guy? And how long has he been this way? Joining us now a one-time friend and roommate of his Gregory Morey-Parker. Gregory, I really appreciate you being with us.
So, you knew him as Anthony Devolder from 2013 to 2018, how long did you actually live together?
GREGORY MOREY-PARKER, FMR FRIEND & ROOMATE OF REP. GEORGE SANTOS: We were only roommates for a few months. And I also knew him as Anthony Zabrovsky.
COOPER: So, you knew --
MOREY-PARKER: That was --
COOPER: Why did he say he had two names then?
MOREY-PARKER: Well, he used Zabrovsky for his Friends of Pets United, his GoFundMe, and he would say oh, well, you know, the Jews will give more if you're a Jew. And so that's the name he used for his GoFundMe's.
COOPER: And what was he having GoFundMe for back then?
MOREY-PARKER: He had a pet charity Friends of Pets United. It was supposedly to help out with, you know, sick animals and things like that. There's actually just an article released from one of my reporter who has been interviewing a lot, Jacqueline Sweet (ph) about how he cons a homeless military vet out of $3,000 for his service dog.
[20:35:24]
COOPER: Did --
MOREY-PARKER: And yes, he was --
COOPER: Did you -- did he actually have a pet charity? Did -- I mean, did he like any other pet?
MOREY-PARKER: He did like dogs. Yes. But he never had any activity as far as taking animals to the vet or buying food or anything when I went to visit him when this so-called charity was active. And they were getting donations.
COOPER: And he told you, apparently a lot of lies about himself as well.
MOREY-PARKER: Yes.
COOPER: What did he say?
MOREY-PARKER: He said he went to Baruch. He said he went to NYU. He worked at Goldman, he worked at Citi Group. I mean, I'm more apt to find, you know, a sliver of truth than I am alive because everything he said to me was a lie. He lied about his family having a home on, you know, on Nantucket, and the Cape. He lied about his mother being, you know, a powerful woman and finance when she was, you know, worked in, you know, domestic capacity.
COOPER: And did you actually meet his mom?
MOREY-PARKER: (INAUDIBLE). Yes. I was very close with his mother, I believe. I sent a picture of her.
COOPER: OK, yes. So, we're showing her picture. So, wait, so she actually lived in the same apartment as you and Santos for time. Is that right?
MOREY-PARKER: Yes, she did. It was her. Her daughter, Tiffany, and then Anthony.
COOPER: So, did she know he was lying about stuff?
MOREY-PARKER: Yes, she would say, oh, Anthony and his stories. And it was kind of a shame because she was a very, very sweet, sweet woman. And, you know, she used to tell me that, you know, she worked her hands down to the bone, you know, to just give him a better life in the U.S., and he didn't care, he would just take her check, you know, blow through her money. And, you know, I would come back and there would be eviction statements on the door at the house in Jackson -- the condo in Jackson Heights. And I was like, well, if you're taking your mother's paycheck, Anthony, and you're, you're taking money from me. And you know, I'm assuming there must be some child support coming in for Tiffany because she hadn't hit age of maturity yet. Like what -- you know, where's all this money going?
COOPER: So, he took money from you?
MOREY-PARKER: Yes, I paid him for three or four months I stayed there.
COOPER: For the rent.
MOREY-PARKER: Yes.
COOPER: So -- and you say Santos actually stole something from you?
MOREY-PARKER: Well, yes, many things. The main thing that really kind of irked me was when I went to visit him in his flushing home in 2018, I came for a few days and when I got back to Boston, I noticed a Burberry shirt, a Burberry scarf were missing. And I mean I, you know, I lose things all the time. I'm terrible. But the Burberry scarf I think the reason why it bothered me so much was because my best friend Danielle (ph) given it to me on the anniversary of my grandfather's passing, and it was more of a sentimental value. And you know, materialistic value.
COOPER: I understand he was actually wearing something he took from you at a pre-January 6 rally in Washington? Is that scarf?
MOREY-PARKER: Yes, I believe if he has the audacity? Yes.
COOPER: Wait a minute. He's wearing the scarf -- MOREY-PARKER: A stolen scarf to a stole -- steal the election rally.
You have to love the irony. And the audacity quite frankly, I'm --
COOPER: Wow.
MOREY-PARKER: -- (INAUDIBLE) I have that much audacity.
COOPER: So, when you saw him standing here this podium, did you -- were you like that's the scarf that I got on the relates to my grandmother's death? I mean, that's got to be infuriated.
MOREY-PARKER: I honestly, a few choice words I won't share with you. But yes, I was, I was livid.
COOPER: So, when did you think when he got elected to Congress? Did you know he was going to run? Did you know he was running for Congress?
MOREY-PARKER: I knew he was planning on running in like, I think 2019 because I was reading on the journal or something. And but I figured he'd run again, but I never in a million years would ever expect him to win.
COOPER: Didn't --
MOREY-PARKER: I feel like I have more of a chance of winning the Powerball.
[20:40:00]
COOPER: I mean, did it make sense you that this guy --
MOREY-PARKER: No.
COOPER: -- who you've been paying rent to, who you say is taking money or borrowing money from his mom who's cleaning houses, and who has eviction notices was going to run for Congress. I mean, that sounds nice.
MOREY-PARKER: I mean, I feel like if he would have campaigned on, you know, got pulled up by my bootstraps or something, you know, maybe but no, it's just ridiculous. I really don't understand how he won. It doesn't make sense.
COOPER: What would you say to him now?
MOREY-PARKER: You need to resign. You got elected under false pretense, and you lied. And you need to resign. Do the right thing by your constituents and by the people of the United States of America. We don't want you in Congress.
COOPER: I also understand that his mother has she passed, did she die?
MOREY-PARKER: She did pass away. Yes.
COOPER: I think I saw something in an interview to give them to a producer that did he raise -- did he have a GoFundMe for his mother's funeral?
MOREY-PARKER: Yes, he did. And he also spoke with a religious leader to try to raise money as well.
COOPER: Do you think that was legit?
MOREY-PARKER: I honestly don't know. I can just say that from my experience dealing with him he is not trustworthy whatsoever. And he's just motivated by money.
COOPER: Driven --
MOREY-PARKER: I don't want to make any speculation.
COOPER: Sure. Gregor Morey-Parker, I really appreciate you being with us. Thank you.
MOREY-PARKER: Welcome (ph). Good evening.
COOPER: Just ahead, the former president accuses evangelical leaders of quote disloyalty. Talk about the very important Republican demographic is now up for grabs in 2024. More than that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:45:36]
COOPER: The former president's once close relationship with white evangelicals and bedrock of his 2016 rise through the primaries into the presidency appears to be fraying. On Monday, he's spoken to conservative broadcast lashed out at evangelical leaders for not already endorsing his latest bid for the White House.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FMR PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: That's a sign of disloyalty. There's a great disloyalty in the world of politics, and that's a sign of disloyalty because nobody as you know, and you would know better than anybody because you do such a great job. Nobody has ever done more for right to life than Donald Trump.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: During that same interview, he also appeared to deflect the blame that he and his handpick candidates received for Republicans underwhelming performance in the midterm saying that evangelicals could have quote, fought much harder.
Joining now, our chief correspondent and "CNN THIS MORNING" co-anchor, Kaitlan Collins, and our chief national affairs analyst, Kasie Hunt.
What do you think of this, first of all, the does it make sense that he would go on records kind of criticizing evangelicals for not being loyal enough?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: It seems almost natural that it's an instinct of his if someone brings up well, so and so hasn't endorsed us, or so and so's criticized you that that is kind of his, you know, automatic response. It's kind of a reaction for him. For this, though, it's so notable because that was such a key block for him in 2016. They helped him also in 2020, evangelical voters helped put Trump in the White House. And so, I was talking to several of his former advisers about this. And they were saying they just view it is kind of self-defeating. And they're not totally surprised by it, because it comes as he is having these broader fears about what the 2024 field is going to look like. He doesn't like the idea that anyone is challenging him but to hear him go after them.
And also, to say that they didn't fight hard enough in the '22 -- 2022 midterm election saying that basically, once the Supreme Court had overturned Roe vs. Wade, which is obviously something that motivated them to go to the polls for so long, people that I was speaking to, they were just saying it's self-defeating for him to go after that group that helped him so much, much after the one when, which is why they said they put him in the White House to appoint conservative judges.
COOPER: Kasie, I mean, you know, he did deliver for evangelical voters, whether he truly believed in what he was doing or not, he did deliver a what he had said he would which many other politicians, Republicans had promised to evangelical voters over the years and presidential races, and not actually delivered on. But it was always sort of a marriage of convenience. I mean, when you have Mike Pence running for president, even you know, it's obvious why a lot of evangelicals, if he could win would probably prefer him.
KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, Anderson forgive me, I lost you there for a second. So, I may not have gotten your full question. But I was listening to what Kaitlan was saying earlier. And, you know, I think the reality here is that this is politics is not the mob, right? It's not all about loyalty, it's about winning, and evangelical leaders in particular, saw the Trump lost the 2020 election, and now they have other choices. And none of them want to get on board with a losing train before they actually see you know what their options are here. So, I think that that helps kind of explain the actions of a lot of these leaders.
And you know, Kaitlan's right, I mean, this was an important block for Trump. It's an important block for any conservative candidate. I mean, he worked really hard putting out a letter saying, you know, I'll nominate these judges, if you elect me, he did a lot of things to make sure that he had trust from that group. But the reality is that, you know, I think that that trust was broken when he lost, and they know that it's unlikely that he potentially is going to win the White House again, or that he could potentially be the toughest horse to get behind here.
COOPER: Kaitlan I interviewed a Bart Barber, the president of the Southern Baptist Convention a while back for "60 Minutes" profile. And he's a very earnest, straightforward guy, not a MAGA church pastor, head of now the largest evangelical organization. He clearly said that he would back Pence in a primary, he would have no problem and, you know, obviously, in a general, he was saying, you know, let's see who the other candidates are.
But the fact that there are two cases when in fact, there are other Republicans in the race, whose morality not only support the same policies that Trump supported, but whose morality is not as questionable as Trump's, it's understandable why some evangelical leaders would be hoping that those would rise.
[20:50:01]
COLLINS: If a Tim Scott gets in the race you could see who their preferred candidate would be obviously not the guy who said you know, 2 Corinthians was one of his favorite books of the Bible.
COOPER: Or he's never asked for forgiveness?
COLLINS: Or that he's never asked for forgiveness. You're right, it is a marriage of convenience in the sense that they knew that he would do what they wanted, which is appoint conservative judges to the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe vs. Wade. There's another whole fascinating layer to that, given Trump's feud with Mitch McConnell over this, and Mitch McConnell was the one who was a key person in that.
But I think that it's clear that that is why they're looking at it this way. And it's not just that pastors will but look at John Robinson, who said, you know, he was critical of Trump in the fall saying that he was kind of like an elementary school kid that he would try to give him this advice and tell him to stop tweeting, stop talking and shooting off the hip -- shooting from the hip, and he would continue to do so. You've seen Robert Jeffers, who said, you know, I'm going to support whoever the nominee is, he'll support Trump if he's the nominee, but making clear he doesn't think unnecessarily get involved. And others are making a play for that Ron DeSantis' campaign ad where they were saying God needed a fighter protector. And so essentially, he made Ron DeSantis. They are going for that group.
COOPER: Right. And Kasie, Mike Pence has a book tour based in evangelical churches around the country.
HUNT: Yes, he sure does. And he's, you know, a very natural candidate for this group. This has been kind of his rock-solid block for his entire political career. Now, that said, I mean, I think there are a lot of questions across the board about, you know, what Pences' constituency is considering where he stands with Donald Trump. And, you know, one question I have, we're talking a lot about evangelical leaders. There have been, you know, leaders who have found that their, their flock doesn't necessarily follow them on things like this. And, you know, I'd be interested to see if many of these congregations don't still harbor a lot of people that actually support Donald Trump and the leaders might find that they're under pressure from them. I think it's going to be my question as we head into the campaign season.
COOPER: Yes, it's good point. Kasie Hunt, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Just ahead, a child waving around what turned out to be loaded handgun in an apartment complex. There's video of it right there. happened on live television, one man now under arrest. We have details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:01]
COOPER: Man in Indiana now facing a felony child neglect charge after video played on live television showed his purported child waving around with turned out to be a loaded gun in the entryway of an apartment complex. Police officer on the scene says the man told them he was ill and did not know the child had left the apartment.
CNN's Jean Casarez has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Police in Beech Grove, Indiana respond to a 911 call. There's a person with a gun in the hallway of an apartment complex. When police arrived, a neighbor tells them it was a toddler holding a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son opened the door and little boy upstairs standing with firearm.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Police immediately make their way to the apartment on January 1th4 at 6:13 p.m.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hell, Beech Grove police. Apartment seven, Beech Grove police.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Police say it was the toddler wearing only a diaper who opened the door. A man enters from a back room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) we're here because the downstairs neighbors said they saw your son running around with something they thought was a silver handgun.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The man Shane Osborne says he's been ill all day and didn't know the toddler had left the apartment. He further advised there was not a firearm in the home, nor did K.O. have any toy guns. The officers do a cursory search nothing in plain view so they leave with one last comment to Osborne.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You might want to do a better job in locking your doors.
SHANE OSBORNE, FATHER: I will.
CASAREZ (voice-over): As police are leaving the apartments, that first neighbor insists the toddler was waving a real gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That baby had a gun. I got so (INAUDIBLE) living he pointed to that gun pointed at me and telling (INAUDIBLE) he had a gun. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was going outside --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He pointed at me and said, look what I got papa.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Officers keep going and as they are almost out the door, another neighbor emerges asking them to look at recorded security camera footage on her phone. There is the toddler waving a gun and pulling the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back (INAUDIBLE).
CASAREZ (voice-over): They enter the apartment a second time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, we have a video of your kid holding a gun, so, you have a gun.
OSBORNE: I go back. I've never brought a gun in this house, if there is, it's my cousins.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to figure out where there's firearm is.
OSBORNE: OK.
CASAREZ (voice-over): With consent to search they now look everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where do you put down that toy?
CASAREZ (voice-over): Osborne assist them and so does the toddler. It was the toddler who finally motion to a roll top desk. Neatly placed inside was a loaded nine-millimeter pistol with 15 rounds in the magazine. No rounds were in the chamber so the gun couldn't fire. Osborne the boy's purported father is arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After speaking to the on-call prosecutors, they said there was enough for child neglect as a felony since it was a loaded firearm that he was unsupervised with.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: This is incredible.
CASAREZ: And it's the truth. It's real. The body cameras thank goodness they have them. Right. So, Osborne's initial court appearance is Thursday at one o'clock. These are arresting charges, neglect of a dependent or a child. Now the prosecutor can add more charges. They can opt not to prosecute in the end. And it's interesting I looked at the law because this is a felony that that right now, he's being arrested on. It's knowingly or intentionally putting that child in danger knowingly intentionally. He said he didn't know there was a gun. Now he also said that he has a cousin and his cousin will leave the gun at the apartment every now and then when he's feeling mentally unstable. But he said the gun is always in his room. But he said I have never brought a gun in. So knowingly intentionally did he know?
[21:00:02] COOPER: Well, thank goodness for those neighbors. I mean you know you say, if you see something say something. And they said something repeatedly (INAUDIBLE).
CASAREZ: And the police we're going to leave because they did the cursory search. They didn't find anything.
