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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Three Victims Identified In Michigan State University Mass Shooting; Federal Prosecutors Want Trump Lawyer's Testimony In Classified Documents Case, Suggest Evidence Of Crime; Nikki Haley Joins GOP Presidential Race With Apparent Dig At Donald Trump; CNN Goes Inside Turkish Trauma Hospital After Massive Earthquake; Estimated 85,000 Plus Injured In Turkey-Syria Earthquake; Amish Dog Breeder, Former Santos Friend On Allegations Santos Used Bad Checks To Steal Puppies In 2017; Maggie Murdaugh's Sister Takes The Stand In Alex Murdaugh's Double Murder Trial; Black Vietnam War Veteran Col. Paris Davis To Receive Medal Of Honor After Waiting Nearly Six Decades. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 14, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Navalny's lawyer recently said he is expected to spend six months in solitary. This is all part of a nine-year sentence that he is serving for what the Kremlin says is fraud.
Navalny, of course, survived a poisoning attempt by Putin's henchmen nearly three years ago now, the last time he saw Yulia.
Thanks so much for joining us. I'll be back at nine. AC 360 starts now.
[20:00:23]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
This was already likely a sad and difficult day for survivors of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. Seventeen young people murdered five years ago today in Parkland, Florida.
Today, Parkland is back in the news, but not as an example of how far we've come in making such massacres a thing of the past. Instead, it is a reminder that the sister and brotherhood of mass shooting victims, survivors, and bereaved is always growing.
Today, the families and loved ones of three Michigan State University students joined that number after a gunman opened fire there last night shooting eight students, killing three of them.
It was neither the first nor the 61st such killing this year. According to the Gun Violence Archive, it was the 67th. Sixty-seven shootings with four or more people shot or killed. In fact, number 68 happened today with four wounded outside a high school in Pittsburgh.
Before we talk about the larger story though, here is what we know about those who were killed in Michigan.
Alexandria Verner was in her junior year and came from the small town of Clawson, Michigan. Her high school principal told us she was an excellent student in addition to playing three sports and taking part in school leadership groups. He says her kindness was on display every second you were around her. She was, he says, everything you'd want your daughter or friend to be.
Brian Fraser was a sophomore from the Detroit suburb of Grosse Pointe. He was a member of Phi Delta Theta fraternity. His sister tells "The Detroit Free Press" that their family isn't ready to speak, but said she doesn't want her brother's name forgotten, and called Brian a light in their lives.
Arielle Anderson was a junior also from the Detroit area in the same school system as Brian Fraser. Her family tells the local station WXYZ that she loved children, wanting to be a pediatrician. Her grandmother tells "The Free Press" that Arielle was kind and loving, caring, compassionate and driven.
More now on the shootings from CNN's Adrienne Broaddus.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to need multiple, multiple ambulances.
ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The gunman first opened fire on the campus Monday just before 8:30 PM.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's still people down there trying to get out.
BROADDUS (voice over): Shooting at two locations, the first inside a classroom at Berkey Hall.
INTERIM DEPUTY CHIEF CHRIS ROZMAN, MSU DEPARTMENT OF POLICE AND PUBLIC SAFETY: While the officers were managing that scene at Berkey Hall, we began receiving additional reports of another shooting at the MSU Union Building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm coming down Stairwell 13 with seven people.
BROADDUS (voice over): New video show students hiding in a classroom, reacting to a knock while on the phone with police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the [bleep] down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said don't open the door.
BROADDUS (voice over): One witness to the shooting says his fight or flight response kicked in.
DOMINIK MOLOTKY, STUDENT, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: I ducked to the far side of the class and ducked down and he came in and shot three to four times in our classroom.
BROADDUS (voice over): Police released a photo of the suspect taken from campus security cameras and a caller's tip sent them to Lansing, Michigan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is going to be a suspect wearing red shoes and a backpack.
BROADDUS (voice over): The search ended just before midnight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired. 23:49. Subject down.
BROADDUS (voice over): Police said the gunman shot himself during a confrontation with police and dying.
ROZMAN: We have absolutely no idea what the motive was at this point. We can confirm that the 43-year-old suspect had no affiliation to the university. He was not a student, faculty, staff, current or previous.
BROADDUS (voice over): According to police, they are now investigating a two-page note found in the gunman's backpack, saying he is going to "finish off Lansing" and that there are "20 of him" who will carry out shootings according to a source familiar with the investigation.
Law enforcement now investigating a local residence where the gunman's father says he lived with him and two weapons. The shooter purchased two handguns in Michigan in 2021, a law enforcement source tells CNN.
ROZMAN: We do have at least one weapon.
BROADDUS (voice over): The gunman had been arrested before. He was released from probation in May of 2021 after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor for possession of a loaded firearm. MSU students now dealing with what's next after spending hours hiding from a gunman.
GRAHAM DIEDRICH, STUDENT, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY: We took heavy furniture from around the library and just essentially barricaded ourselves in to a study room to make sure we were safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was like shaking in the bathroom and it was just terrible. It's just like, I was preparing myself for like the worst thing ever.
[20:05:01]
BROADDUS (voice over): Despite the tough circumstances, there is one greeting among MSU Spartans that still unites them.
BROADDUS (on camera): Go green.
GROUP OF UNIDENTIFIED FEMALES: Go white.
BROADDUS: You guys smiled instantly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As horrible and disgusting and tragic as that was, like we are all in it together and like everyone was here for each other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Adrienne Broaddus joins us now from the MSU Campus in East Lansing. We should point out that you know, the greeting from the end of your piece, you're actually an alum of MSU. What more are you learning about the shooter's background?
BROADDUS: Yes, that greeting, Anderson, is something every freshman learn during orientation, four words that connect people and behind us, you'll see the rock. This is where students come to address their concerns and complaints. And on the rock, it says "How many more?" That's the question students are asking tonight as they learn more about that 43-year-old shooter.
He spoke, the shooter's father that is, spoke with CNN and his father told us that his son changed over the last two years following the death of his mother who died following complications from a stroke.
The father told us his son became bitter, isolated, and angry. He also says his son struggled with mental health issues -- Anderson.
COOPER: Adrienne Broaddus, appreciate the reporting. Thank you.
A new analysis by "The Washington Post" finds that more than 338,000 kids in this country have been exposed to shootings at some point from kindergarten through 12th grade since 1999, three hundred thirty eight thousand.
We are joined by CNN senior law enforcement analyst and a former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe.
Andrew, obviously there is still a lot we don't know about this latest shooter's motivation. We do know he pleaded guilty to a firearm charge back in 2019. Law enforcement source tells CNN he purchased two weapons in the State of Michigan and 2021. Does it strike you as odd that he was able to make that purchase?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, Anderson. It is really -- at this point we don't have quite enough facts to sort through this thing perfectly, but what I can tell you is on the Federal level, his firearms conviction for a misdemeanor would not have prohibited him from purchasing a firearm. The disqualifier in the Brady Act is having been convicted of a felony, and he was initially arrested for a felony, but later pled that down to a misdemeanor, so that wouldn't have stopped him.
The question is whether or not he violated any Michigan State laws. There is a requirement for anyone purchasing a pistol in Michigan to have a pistol purchase or a purchase license that's issued by your local Sheriff or some other official, and it is not perfectly clear to me whether or not that misdemeanor conviction would have disqualified him on that grounds.
COOPER: The shooter had a rambling note in his backpack that reference other mass shootings mentioned two schools New Jersey, also claimed there were, "20 of him." I mean, you and I have talked about this many times before. Often these shooters have studied other mass shootings, or they look up to other mass shooters, or they're disturbed and are sort of drawn to this.
MCCABE: There is no question about that, Anderson. We've seen it time and time again, the fact is that among this community of mass shooters, you oftentimes see they conduct like assiduous research in other mass shootings. They look at other shooters' tactics and techniques. Sometimes they copy each other's Manifestos.
You've seen the infamous Christchurch shooter -- mass shooter in New Zealand has served as kind of an inspiration for many, particularly racially motivated mass shooters. We saw his words echoed by the El Paso shooter, it goes on and on and on.
Of course, the Dylan Klebold and -- Harris and Klebold who are the shooters at Columbine years ago have been kind of a disgusting inspiration to shooters ever since. So they feed off of each other's infamy.
COOPER: The MSU campus, it's like 5,300 acres, there are 400 buildings. A college campus like that, I mean, really any college campus, it is a very difficult area to secure something that large.
MCCABE: It's basically impossible to secure something that large against, you know, the instance of a mass shooter. You'd have to essentially turn the entire place into what amounts to a prison, a completely locked down kind of closed off area, which is not -- you know, not some condition everyone would subject our college students to.
The fact is, if someone decides to arm themselves and go in and commit a mass shooting, you're behind the curve as law enforcement. The law enforcement response last night appears to have been textbook by just about every measure, and yet they always arrive after the shooting has taken place. It is almost impossible, unless you I just happen to be in the room that the mass shooter chooses to enter, it's almost impossible for law enforcement to be there soon enough to stop the killing.
[20:10:11]
COOPER: Yes, Andrew McCabe, I appreciate talking to you, though. I wish we didn't have to under the circumstances.
Breaking news tonight in the Mar-a-Lago documents case, CNN has learned that Federal prosecutors are asking a Court to compel one of the former president's lawyers, Evan Corcoran, to talk in spite of attorney-client privilege. Now, their argument, the former President might have used him in furtherance of a crime, which would negate the attorney-client privilege.
The very latest now from CNN's Kaitlan Collins and Elie Honig, CNN legal analyst and a former Federal prosecutor.
So Kaitlan, what are prosecutors asking for here exactly?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Basically, they want to talk to Evan Corcoran again. He is one of Trumps top attorneys. He has already actually spoken to the grand jury, he did so for about four hours recently, I'm told, in addition to two other Trump attorneys, but they want to speak to him again.
So they have this motion to compel further testimony from Evan Corcoran, and the reason it matters is that they are trying to overcome that shield of attorney-client privilege, which he did use we are told in the last time that he met with the grand jury, they're trying to overcome that.
And so what they are alleging, prosecutors, in writing to this Judge, is that they believe that the former President has used his attorney, Evan Corcoran in furtherance of a crime or fraud, that is this crime fraud exception that would allow them to overcome the attorney-client privilege and basically force him to answer questions that typically he wouldn't have to.
But we should note, like, we don't actually know how this is going to end up, it's going to go to a Judge, they have to make -- they have to make a decision based on the merits here.
COOPER: Elie, let me ask you. I mean, so a Judge has to decide whether a crime was actually committed?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Exactly, Anderson. So prosecutors here bear the burden of going to a Judge, and they're trying to pierce or get through the attorney-client privilege. One of the ways you can do that is if you can convince a Judge that the communications at issue had something to do with furthering an ongoing crime.
Now, the standard here is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That's what you would need to prove to a jury, in order to get a conviction. Here, you would have to prove to a Judge by a preponderance of the evidence by clear and convincing evidence more likely than not, essentially, that you have evidence that the evidence we are talking about here went to an ongoing crime.
It is fairly rare for prosecutors to use this exception, this crime fraud exception and it is not assured as you say that they'll win, but it tells me the prosecutors are squarely focused on this obstruction of justice issue.
COOPER: Kaitlan, is it clear to you what questions spurred the attorney to invoke attorney-client privilege?
COLLINS: It's not totally clear. I mean, Evan Corcoran has been kind of one of the top attorneys on this for months now. He was there, you know, he was the one who actually drafted that letter that they gave to the Justice Department back in June, I believe, that wasn't signed by him, but he helped write it saying that they had conducted a diligent search of Mar-a-Lago. There were no more classified documents where they had looked.
Obviously, that wasn't the case, because the FBI showed up in August and found a lot more classified documents, but he didn't put his actual name on that, and one of the other attorneys put her name on that.
So it remains to be seen, but obviously, that could be a possibility of why they want to speak to him. But this is a really aggressive move, maybe one of the most aggressive that we have seen yet, from the Special Counsel, Jack Smith, who is overseeing this investigation.
COOPER: And Elie, what does it tell you about the Justice Department case that they are going down this route? And do you agree with Kaitlan, that this is the most aggressive thing we've seen so far from them?
HONIG: Absolutely, this is an aggressive move. It's rare that prosecutors do this and it shows that they mean business. And it shows me, Anderson, that these prosecutors are focused intensely on obstruction of justice, and maybe even more so than any criminal issues that may relate to the actual mishandling of the documents.
Let's remember, when the FBI and Justice Department got that search warrant to go into Mar-a-Lago last August, one of the crimes that they alleged that they had proof of probable cause of was obstruction of justice.
So they went to a Federal Judge already, and showed that they had probable cause of obstruction of justice. Also, let's keep in mind, the biggest differentiator between the Trump documents scenario on the one hand and the Biden and Pence documents scenario on the other appears to be that obstruction of justice, and now they're going to a Judge and saying, you should let us break through the attorney-client privilege, which is a sacred privilege, because we think that communications here had to do with an ongoing crime. That's dramatic. That's aggressive. And that's pretty rare.
COOPER: And Kaitlan, we can say for sure that this has to do with the classified documents side of the Federal investigation.
COLLINS: Yes. The Special Counsel is looking into both, but this is specifically about the classified documents. We don't know how this will end with a Judge. I think that's a really important part of it. That is going to be the next question here of how they handle that because Evan Corcoran did go before them for about four hours, so he did answer some questions.
We are told he invoked attorney-client privilege there, but big questions still about what they need to know that they believe they can't know because of attorney-client privilege.
COOPER: Yes, really big development. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much, Elie Honig as well, thanks.
Much more ahead tonight. Next, Nikki Haley, she attacked Trump when he ran for President the
first time, then embraced him when he was President and said she wouldn't run if you ran and today announced, she is the former President's first major Republican opponent for the 2024 nomination. We will show you how she is positioning herself and what might become a crowded competition.
And later, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta in Turkey in a hospital in the quake zone that has seen some 5,000 trauma patients over the last seven days.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:55]
COOPER: And now there are two. Former South Carolina Governor and UN Ambassador, Nikki Haley entered the Republican presidential race with a message aimed apparently at her old boss and now 2024 rival.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, FORMER GOVERNOR OF SOUTH CAROLINA: You should know this about me. I don't put up with bullies, and when you kick back hurts them more if you're wearing heels.
I'm Nikki Haley and I'm running for President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Perspective now from Haley supporter, Katon Dawson, former Chairman of the South Carolina Republican Party, CNN's Audie Cornish, the host of "The Assignment Podcast," and Stuart Stevens, 2012 campaign adviser to Mitt Romney and author of, "It Was All a Lie: How the Republican Party became Donald Trump."
Katon, what's your assessment of Ambassador Haley's first day as a presidential candidate? And what do you see as her lane? Obviously, she is now an opponent of the former President. Not long ago, they were allies and she was pledging to not run if he did.
KATON DAWSON, FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN PARTY: Sure. And you know, as I told someone earlier today, she has the ability to change her mind and she did and we encouraged her to do that.
I think the lane we're seeing right now is a little excitement we saw when there was Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley, and Tim Scott running against Donald Trump in South Carolina and we thought maybe the next generation was time then, it wasn't. Donald Trump won and overwhelmingly became the President and then lost the presidency.
[20:20:14]
DAWSON: So I think the lane that Nikki Haley has is the lane of the next generation stepping up. She certainly has been willing to be the first one to go up against the President and both Presidents really, I mean, obviously, Joe Biden is considering running again. So we are excited about it.
The bad part about this is I'm hearing the same stuff I've been hearing for years as a party chairman, out of out of reporters today, Anderson. I mean, do you think America is ready for a woman -- female President? Do you think Americans will vote for an immigrant President? These sorts of lines that I get, you know are sad and disappointing, but is there a double standard here? We're going to find out?
I think that the first female President of the United States will be a woman Republican, whether it's Nikki Haley or not, I'm not sure, but I'm excited about our chances. I'm excited about what she's doing and how hard she's working to put the campaign on the right track.
COOPER: Audie, what do you see as her lane? Because I mean, if Tim Scott enters the race, if Governor DeSantis enters the race, and obviously there's others, you know, Pompeo, Bolton, I mean, it could be quite a crowded field.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: I mean, having reported out of South Carolina in the kind of primary periods, it's a very important state. It checks a lot of boxes, in terms of constituency, and to the earlier point made, maybe the lane has widened for Haley or even Tim Scott.
There was a Congresswoman, Nancy Mace who is now in office. She is someone who has spoken very much against Trump on January 6th and some other things and is trying to carve out a space for someone who is not kind of a hardcore Trumpist and I think Nikki Haley is kind of looking at that atmosphere and thinking maybe the support has softened a little bit, and you can hear her key argument as generational change.
It's not that Trump was bad or the former administration did bad things. It's just that it is kind of time, which is her way of kind of politely saying that was great, but let's move on.
COOPER: Yes, Stuart, you recently wrote a piece in "The New York Times" the title, "Nikki Haley Threw It All Away." And I want to read a quote in it. You said: "No political figure better illustrates the tragic collapse of the modern Republican Party than Nikki Haley." Can you talk a little bit about what you meant? Because obviously the pushback because she is a woman of color, she is a former Governor, and a former diplomat, and that she could be exactly what the modern GOP needs?
STUART STEVENS, 2012 CAMPAIGN ADVISER TO MITT ROMNEY: Well, look, I'd love to take that moment that the Chairman was referring to with her and Tim Scott and Marco Rubio, and go back to that moment, and I wish that when they were out there speaking the truth about Donald Trump, they stuck with that truth.
You know, Nikki Haley went out and said that Donald Trump was everything she taught her kindergarten kids not to be, and you can't really take that back. That's not a disagreement on policy. It's not like saying, well, you know, I think the capital gains tax ought to be this or that. That's a fundamental character assessment of someone who actually, she proved to be probably a little more optimistic about Donald Trump than it turned out.
So I just wish that Nikki Haley had stayed that person. I think that her sort of collapse on this embodies what happened to the Republican Party, and I just don't think that generational change means anything if you're still supporting Donald Trump, and all of these people say they'll support Donald Trump if he is the nominee.
COOPER: Katon, what about that? I mean, she was very tough against Donald Trump when she was supporting Marco Rubio when he was running for President.
DAWSON: You know, guys, I do campaigns elections for a living, you know, and it is not humorous to me, but these are campaigns for offices, whether it be Governor or whether it be the presidency, and they ebb and they flow.
I understand character integrity are important, but if you want to go read the polls, there are about number eight or nine right now in the business I am in. Looking for the future and looking through the front of the window and not the rearview mirrors what I think the electorate is looking for.
COOPER: Audi, do you see an advantage for Haley jumping into the race ahead of most of the other possible candidates or in the long run, does that really matter?
CORNISH: I don't know if it really matters in the long run and to the point earlier about character -- and there have been so many people who have said things about Donald Trump who ended up firmly in his corner. I mean, just ask Ted -- you know, Senator Cruz, what it is like to speak against Trump, so that doesn't matter.
It is sort of the loyalty you reveal since. That is what matters to Trump is and to Trump himself. I think the biggest question is, who is the constituency for this particular candidate? Because it is not clear yet who that constituency is out of a primary election. Maybe the general, we have an idea, but in a primary we have not seen evidence that there is support for a candidate, a non-Trump candidate that doesn't end up splitting a bunch of votes.
[20:25:10]
CORNISH: And really, that's what is going to make this primary season kind of so interesting to watch, because it's nothing less than what is the future of the party without Trump.
COOPER: Stuart, do you think Haley has a shot?
STEVENS: Sure, she has got a shot. But look, you know, this conversation kind of makes my head explode because we're talking about politics as if there is some sort of normal moment here, and it is as if the last President of the United States didn't attempt to end the peaceful transference of power.
We are in uncharted waters here. Their official position of the Republican Party is that Joe Biden is not a legally elected President in a fair election, which means he is an occupier of the Oval Office. This is not a normal time, and democracy is on the ballot.
And look, I've spent 30 years pointing out flaws in the Democratic Party, but one thing about the Democratic Party is it still believes that there is a democratic process in America and we have a democratically elected President. And until the Republican Party comes along with that, I just don't think it's about ideology or about anything else. It's about whether or not you believe in American democracy and we do what it takes to sustain it.
COOPER: Stuart Stevens, Audie Cornish, Katon Dawson, appreciate it. Thank you.
Coming up next, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta on the battle to save lives in the busiest hospital in Turkey's quake zone. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:29]
COOPER: Another extraordinary rescue we want to share with you tonight. More than a week after the devastating earthquake hit Turkey and Syria, a 30-year-old woman was pulled out of the rubble in the province of Hatay. This is according to CNN's Turkish affiliate. We don't know much else about her, but it was a Ukrainian rescue team working in Turkey who got her, which is pretty amazing considering the devastation that's going on in Ukraine right now.
Ukraine has sent 87 emergency rescue staff to Turkey. The death toll from the earthquake has now surpassed 41,000 people. Turkey says more than 13,000 people are still hospitalized.
CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from Turkey. It's incredibly, Sanjay, that they're still finding some people alive after so long.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is extraordinary, Anderson. And, you know, as dire as the numbers are, and the situation is, as you well know, and we've been to these places together, people rise up and they take care of people in extraordinary ways.
I mean, I was at a hospital where really since the earthquake, people have not stopped working. Operating rooms have been running constantly. What has happened is so many hospitals in the quake zone were damaged, some of them rendered unoperational.
The largest trauma center here in Adana has been taking on a large percentage of the patients, some 5,000 patients alone within this trauma center. And how they've been able to do it, how they all sort of came together, was something they wanted to show us today. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA (voice-over): Time is the great equalizer in hospitals all across Turkey, and there isn't enough of it here in Adana City at the Teaching and Research Hospital. (on-camera): The patients come in with fractures, with -- what sort of injury?
DR. SULEYMAN CETINKUNAR, CHIEF OF STAFF, ADANA CITY TEACHING AND RESEARCH HOSPITAL: Yes. Patients are -- consist of lymph loss, tissue crashes, tissue loss and brain trauma.
GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Suleyman Cetinkunar is chief of staff here. Within minutes, his trauma team is paged again. Another helicopter is arriving.
(on-camera): We're now walking with the chief of staff of the hospital to the helipad. He tells me that they've had some 5,000 patients that have come here over the last seven days. The orthopedic surgeons, the neurosurgeons, have been operating for seven days straight basically. This is the largest trauma hospital in the quake zone.
(voice-over): The doctors move fast. The goal, to care for this 26- year-old woman. Her kidneys are failing from something known as crush syndrome. Too many toxins were released into her blood after her limb was finally free. She will need emergent kidney dialysis.
Over and over again, patients from the quake zone finally, thankfully, making it here for help. And one with the most remarkable story I have heard. This beautiful family of five, felt the earth's shake and then watched the unthinkable happen.
NILAY FANSA, MOTHER OF MISSING BABY (through translation): Our block of flats is seven stories high.
GUPTA (voice-over): They could do nothing but watch as eight-month-old baby Bergie (ph) was somehow hurtled from the window five stories to the ground. And then look what happened to their building, just flattened.
Somehow, Nilai survived after being trapped herself for almost 14 hours. And she began to dig and scrape through the rubble for any sign, any sign at all that her baby girl was still alive.
FANSA (through translation): And at that point, the fifth day, we thought we would be seeing her lifeless body.
GUPTA (voice-over): But then something astonishing happened. Someone showed them this post on Twitter. At first, they weren't sure, but this baby girl looked very much like her daughter.
FANSA (through translation): You see, we had no idea she had been saved.
GUPTA (voice-over): In the chaos, a good Samaritan had rescued the girl and she was flown here, broken and battered, left leg shattered, skull fractured, a small collection of blood on her brain. But, yes, very much alive.
(END VIDEOTAPE) GUPTA: Such an incredible story, Anderson. I mean, just think about that building that you saw there. She was asleep in a cot next to that window. Had she been in that cot, still in that cot, she would have most likely died just by what had happened to that building. Instead, she was thrown out of the building and survived, as you saw there, into the hospital.
COOPER: Yes, that's incredible.
GUPTA: And she's -- so I just saw it's doing well. Yes.
[20:35:02]
COOPER: That's unbelievable. You mentioned the crush injury and I'd never really understood that before. Someone can actually survive and then get, you said platelets in the blood are released when they're no longer being crushed and that can actually harm somebody?
GUPTA: Yes. So what happens is if someone has a -- in this case, an arm that's sort of pinned, the muscle in the part of the arm that is pinned can actually start to release these toxins known as myoglobin. They're sort of contained because the arm is pinned. But the problem is, as soon as you take, you know, as soon as you release the arm, all those toxins can now get into the bloodstream and cause problems with other organs, including the kidney.
In Haiti, you may remember this, Anderson, sometimes they would find somebody who's still alive, but before they would actually unpinned them, they would start IVs, start actually giving fluids to try and prevent that problem from happening. They're doing the same thing here. They're giving IVs in the field to try and prevent that. The woman you saw there, she had that done, but is going to also need dialysis to make sure that her kidneys recover.
COOPER: I mean, you and I spent more than a month, I think, in Haiti after the earthquake there.
GUPTA: Yes.
COOPER: Obviously very different places, different building codes, but how do you compare?
GUPTA: There's a lot of similarities, Anderson. I'll tell you, I mean, the -- one of the big differences is just the climate. It is below freezing right now. You remember in Haiti, it was January, it was quite warm at that point in Haiti. It was much more densely populated. Over here, it is more spread out, the quake zone.
But the same sorts of problems with building codes. That pancaking of the building that you saw, I mean, that's, you know, it's reflective of, I think, buildings that just haven't been built to the code of withstanding earthquakes. And you're seeing the consequences of that.
Obviously, also Syria, northern Syria, you're dealing with a country that has, you know, has so much civil strife, it is so hard to get aid. Up until yesterday, there was only one border crossing where people could actually go get aid into Syria or patients could come back across into Turkey for medical care.
COOPER: Yes.
GUPTA: So, you're dealing with that geopolitical situation and the climate differences, but it feels very similar, Anderson.
COOPER: Sanjay, I'm so glad you're there. Thank you.
Just ahead, a really incredible report about some of the more bizarre charges against Congressman George Santos involving an Amish dog breeder and bad checks. Our Gary Tuchman just returned from Amish country in Pennsylvania and spoke to the dog breeder. What he learned next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:26]
COOPER: Congressman George Santos today was adamant on Twitter that he will remain in office, quote, let me be -- let me very clear, he wrote. I'm not leaving, I'm not hiding, and I'm not backing down. As you know, there are multiple ongoing investigations into his finances, and he's told a long, obviously, series of lies.
One of the newest allegations involves charges later dismissed but now resurfacing, that in 2017, Santos stole puppies from an Amish dog breeder using bad checks. Our Gary Tuchman went to Amish country in Pennsylvania to learn more about the allegations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We've told this Amish dairy farmer in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania we'll protect his identity as this father of 10 who we will call Fred, tells us the story of a man who came to his house a little over five years ago to buy puppies. That Fred breeds is a side job.
FRED, AMISH FARMER: He seemed uncomfortable and nervous and fidgety, so that's when I started getting suspicious.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): His instinct was correct. These are nine checks from November 2017. The name on each of them, George Santos. The checks to buy puppies obtained by CNN were written to Fred and other Amish dog breeders. They totaled more than $15,000.
Fred says the man he then simply knew as George came with a female assistant and they cut their deal in this very room we're standing in, the milk house. He says, the man wanted two German shepherds.
FRED: He says, OK, we're going to take that puppy and that puppy and his assistant grabs the two puppies, takes him out the door, and he pulls out a check. I was like, oh, no. Is this guy going to pay me with a check. But then I was very suspicious.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Because she -- you told me before, she put the dogs in the car, correct? FRED: Right.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Before they paid for it.
FRED: Right.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): So you're suspicious because he's going to pay with a check and you don't take checks.
FRED: And I told him I don't take checks, all I can take is cash. Well, he said, would you expect me to carry enough of cash to buy a bunch of puppies on a trip like this? I do not have cash. The only thing I can give you is a check. Well, I thought to myself, it looks like I'm done.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): You're stuck?
FRED: I'm stuck.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Because the dogs are already in the car.
FRED: The dogs are in the car.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): You thought they pulled a fast one on you?
FRED: Right. And it was obvious to me by that time they probably pulled a fast one on me.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): So you said, through the goodness of your heart, I take it, that you'll take the check?
FRED: I said, I've decided a check is better than nothing. I'll give it a try.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): And the results of that try --
(on-camera): To check balance.
FRED: To check balance, right.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): And then you were charged a fee, too, for --
FRED: A minimum --
TUCHMAN (on-camera): -- depositing a balanced check?
FRED: Right.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Have you gotten the money back?
FRED: No.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Have you heard from anybody about it?
FRED No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Santos?
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Just three days after all these puppies were purchased, Santos participated in an adoption event at a pet supply store in Staten Island, New York, according to a former owner of the business. That man, Daniel Avocado (ph), tells CNN he wrote a check for a few hundred dollars to Santos' pet rescue charity following the event.
But says he later saw his check online and that someone crossed out the charity name and wrote Anthony Devolder, another name that Santos has used.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And New York Republicans are calling you a disgrace.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): We've received no comment from Santos or his attorney regarding all this. Santos was ultimately charged with theft by Pennsylvania authorities, but the charge was later dropped after Santos made a claim that somebody had stolen his checkbook, according to a lawyer who is a former friend of his.
That lawyer, Tiffany Bogosian, says she no longer believes him.
TIFFANY BOGOSIAN, FORMER FRIEND OF SANTOS: He's definitely, you know, not qualified to be where he is in Congress, and he should really be in jail.
[20:45:05]
TUCHMAN (on-camera): This is George Santos?
FRED: Right.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Do you believe this is the man who bought your dogs and put him in the car and took him away from you?
FRED: I feel it is. Based on my memory, I would say yes, it is.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Fred loves dogs. He has his own and still breeds others. He's tried his best to forget about being fleeced. But Santos' ascension to Congress has made forgetting impossible.
FRED: I'm disappointed that a person like that would have a chance to get in the House of Representatives.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Gary Tuchman joins us now. This is insane to me that George Santos, according to this Amish farmer wrote bad checks to him face to face and defrauded him.
TUCHMAN: Right. And, you know, the part about the dog is going in the car --
COOPER: And stole 10 puppies. I mean, this is literally, you cannot make this up. TUCHMAN: And that's the allegation, right.
COOPER: Right.
TUCHMAN: But you heard him say that he believes that was George Santos and the checks of George Santos. And what Santos is inferring by saying that the checkbook got stolen is that somebody else took his checkbook and wrote nine separate checks --
COOPER: Right.
TUCHMAN: -- to buy dogs.
COOPER: If you were going to steal a checkbook, I'm not sure the one thing you would do with those forged checks would be to go to Amish country and buy dogs.
TUCHMAN: Exactly right. I think an important point here, though, is that this farmer told us that George Santos put the dogs in the car before he paid for the dogs.
COOPER: Right.
TUCHMAN: And he honestly, as you saw, he felt --
COOPER: It's a classic Santos move.
TUCHMAN: Well, he felt intimidated and he said, OK, I'll take the check. He didn't want to take the check, but he took the check. He felt intimidated and as you see, he believes he was fleeced.
COOPER: He's stealing puppies allegedly. I mean --
TUCHMAN: You wouldn't do that.
COOPER: No, I --
TUCHMAN: Yes.
COOPER: It's so -- it's incredible to me, this whole thing. I cannot believe this is going on.
TUCHMAN: This is quite a story. No question about it. This -- a lot of it's quite a story. This aspect is quite a story too.
COOPER: Wow. Thank you, Gary. Appreciate it.
Still ahead, new testimony in the Alex Murdaugh double murder trial from his wife's sister, what she had to say about the night of the murders, and Alex's behavior next.
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[20:51:14]
COOPER: Tonight, new details in the double murder trial of disgraced former South Carolina attorney Alex Murdaugh. As the state nears the end of its case, the source tells CNN that Murdaugh's attorneys are strongly considering putting him on the witness stand. Murdaugh is accused of killing his wife and youngest son in an alleged effort to cover up his financial crimes.
His wife's sister took the stand today, testifying about her last conversation with Maggie Murdaugh and her interactions with Alika (ph) after the murders. Randi Kaye has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIAN PROCTOR, SISTER OF MAGGIE MURDAUGH: She loved her family. She loved her boys.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maggie Murdaugh's sister, on the witness stand, just feet away from the man accused of taking the lives of her sister and her nephew, Paul Murdaugh. Marian Proctor shared in court that Maggie told her Alex had specifically requested she and Paul go to the family's hunting property that night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said that Alex wanted her to come home that night?
PROCTOR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was your understanding of Maggie's intent or what they were going to do that night?
PROCTOR: I was under the impression they were going over to Almita to visit his parents.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You encouraged her to go to Moza (ph)?
PROCTOR: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that the last time you talked to her?
PROCTOR: Yes.
KAYE (voice-over): Proctor shared how she felt after learning about their deaths.
PROCTOR: I just couldn't believe it. I didn't think it was true.
KAYE (voice-over): Maggie Murdaugh's sister testified about what she described as an odd conversation she had with Alex in the days following the murders. She said when she asked him if Maggie and Paul had suffered, he assured her they did not. Then this.
PROCTOR: I asked him, I said, Alex, do you have any idea who's done this? And I said, we have got to find out who could do this. And he said that he did not know who it was, but he felt like whoever did it had thought about it for a really long time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That strike you as odd?
PROCTOR: I just didn't know what that meant.
KAYE (voice-over): She also testified following the murders, Alex seemed focused on resolving a boat lawsuit his son Paul was involved in.
PROCTOR: We would talk about the boat case and he was very intent on clearing Paul's name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did he say?
PROCTOR: He said that his number one goal was clearing Paul's name. And I thought that was so strange because my number one goal was to find out who killed my sister and Paul.
KAYE (voice-over): Regarding his whereabouts the night of the murders, Maggie's sister told the jury that Alex told her family that he had not gone to the dog kennels where the murders took place earlier that night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then he said he never went to the kennels?
PROCTOR: Correct.
KAYE (voice-over): Keep in mind, Alex told investigators he wasn't at the kennels either until much later that night, when he found his wife and son dead. Yet the state and more than half a dozen witnesses have identified his voice on a recording taken at the kennels around the time of the murders.
The recording was discovered on Paul Murdaugh's cell phone months after the murders. On cross examination, the defense talked about Maggie being part of a loving family and how poorly Alex was coping with the murders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alex, was he grieving greatly?
PROCTOR: Terribly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And people have --
PROCTOR: Withdraw.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- described him as being destroyed, is that -- would you agree with that assessment?
PROCTOR: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE: And Anderson, Maggie's sister also testified that Maggie and Alex had a good relationship. She said it wasn't perfect, but that she thought Maggie was happy.
[20:55:02]
She also said Maggie thought that Alex had a problem with pills. That Maggie had nicknamed Paul Murdaugh the Little Detective, because he would go around the house and collect pills that Alex had in his possession that hadn't been prescribed to him. And as you may recall, Alex's lawyers have blamed an alleged opioid addiction for some of these alleged financial schemes and some of these odd behaviors that Alex Murdaugh was involved in.
But looking ahead, Anderson to this week, it looks as though the state is still expecting to wrap up their case this week, and then the defense will begin theirs.
COOPER: All right, Randi, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Coming up, a long overdue honor. A black Vietnam war veteran is set to receive the U.S. military's highest award, the medal of honor nearly six decades after he was first nominated. We'll explain ahead next.
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COOPER: After a nearly 60-year wait, the White House announced retired U.S. Army Colonel Paris Davis will finally be awarded the Medal of Honor, the most prestigious decoration in the U.S. military. According to the New York Times, Davis, who is one of the first black officers in the Green Berets, was nominated in 1965 for his heroism during the Vietnam War.
But the army allegedly lost his nomination paperwork. Four years later, the nomination was resubmitted and again the paperwork was apparently lost. Davis tells CBS he believed race was a factor in the delay.
President Biden personally called Davis Monday to inform him he would receive the Medal of Honor and said he looked forward to hosting him at the White House. Davis said the call from the President prompted a wave of memories of the men and women that he served with.
The news continues. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
