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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Ground-Hugging Combat Mission Aboard Ukrainian Army Chopper; Ukrainian Lawyers Fear Children Adopted By Russians Maybe Lost For Good; Court Filing: FOX Anchors And Senior Executives Privately Disbelieved Election Lies While Pushing Them On-Air; SC Voters On GOP Sen. Scott Possibly Joining 2024 WH Race Against SC GOV. Haley And Trump; GOP Sen. Tim Scott Kicks Off "Listening Tour" Ahead Of Possible 2024 Presidential Run; Doctors Treating Earthquake Survivors Get Creative With Few Resources; SLED Investigator In Alex Murdaugh's Double Murder Trial Lays Out Detailed Timeline Of Events On The Night Of The Killings. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired February 17, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: This is the first time actually that they've been seen together since the release of the video of Nichols' violent death.
One defendant's attorney says his client "was doing his job."
Meanwhile, the DA says his office is reviewing as many as 100 cases now related to that SCORPION unit, the tactical force that all five officers were a part of. It was designed to cut down on crime. It has, of course, since been shut down.
Thanks for joining us. AC 360 begins now.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening.
We begin tonight with a 360 exclusive inside the fighting in Ukraine from a perspective that's never been shown before, the view from inside a Ukrainian combat helicopter flying at treetop level and sometimes below the tree line under constant threat from ground fire and fighters above.
Flying these choppers is one of the most dangerous jobs in this war, and with Russia beginning a new offensive, it could soon get even riskier.
CNN's Sam Kiley has the story.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The target is Russian troops.
A hard bank left and a dive and flares to distract heat-seeker missiles. A pair of Ukrainian helicopters on an assault against Russian forces close to Bakhmut. HENNADY, UKRAINIAN ARMY PILOT: The Russian aircraft are waiting around the border, on the frontline.
We should be careful when we go. We should fly at very low altitude and very low speed to prevent our recognition.
KILEY (voice over): Below, trenches and East Ukrainian villages smashed by war.
Back from their sortie, this forward base is secret as low profile as possible. The MIA helicopters are refueled and rearmed. They expect to fly at least three sorties a day.
(on camera): When you took off this morning, were you frightened?
KILEY: Well, because the Russians want to kill you.
HENNADY: We don't have any other choice than to fight with Russians. If you're frightened, you should stay at home.
KILEY (voice over): That's not an option here.
(on camera): This Soviet-era helicopter is about 30 years old. The threat against it is extreme, and as a result of that, we are having to fly quite literally below the height of trees, climbing and dipping with every piece of woodland that we pass.
(voice over): Built as transport aircraft, they are most vulnerable when they climb to shoot their rockets, diving for cover to 20 feet above the ground is also perilous.
A change in sound indicates a tree strike by the helicopters blades. Back at base, the blades are swapped quickly. Ukraine doesn't have aircraft to spare, nor pilots.
Serhiy skippers the chopper that hit the trees.
(SERHIY speaking in foreign language.)
KILEY (voice over): He tells me, "In December, a very close friend of mine died. A lot of people I knew, friends have already died, unfortunately. It's very painful and I am very upset and I cannot move on."
He went on: "We need new attack helicopters, new jets. Unfortunately, our equipment is old and its range is very small and it is inaccurate."
A year into fighting Russia's invasion, Ukraine is still asking for more advanced helicopters and jets. So far, the response from her allies has been, "sorry, but no." And so they fight on here with what they've got.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Sam Kiley joins us now from Eastern Ukraine.
Sam, that's incredible. What was it like in that helicopter? I mean, the idea that you're flying below the tree line, the rotor of the helicopter actually hit a tree. I mean, it's extraordinary the risks that these pilots are taking.
KILEY: It is extraordinary risk. It's a real sort of David and Goliath, if we needed one of those comparisons in Ukraine, that would be it. These ancient helicopters that sort of Soviet equivalent of a Blackhawk, but a very old and ancient Blackhawk transport helicopter fitted with these rocket pods and sent into battle, fearful of fighter jets, of surface-to-air missiles of ground fire.
I mean, when we were on that aircraft, I could have almost went out the window and touched stubble of the trees of the fields passing below me, so it really is extremely high risk.
They have taken pretty heavy casualties, particularly at the beginning of the war before they could organize themselves.
The other thing I think that is important to note here, by fluke, entirely by fluke, a lot of these veteran pilots have been flying recently in the last 15 to 20 years on peacekeeping missions with the United Nations in Africa.
So they've got a lot of hours, they've got a lot of hours in areas of conflict like the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Sierra Leone, Liberia, Mozambique, and elsewhere. And as a consequence of that, they're pretty, very, very highly skilled and they are all paired with much younger pilots.
But one of the younger pilots I spoke to, who has been flying for just a few years, this year alone, Anderson, he counted to a hundred combat sorties, and then stopped bothering -- Anderson.
COOPER: Wow. Incredible. Sam Kiley, thank you for that report. Really extraordinary.
CNN military analyst, retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling joins us now.
General Hertling, I mean, are those helicopters even designed for that?
LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: They are, Anderson. Those are MI-17 helicopters, I think. I just picked it up on the film as Sam was doing his report.
And what they're flying is what's called nap-of-the-earth. All combat aircraft do that. They try and stay as low as possible to avoid any kind of radar signatures and there is that up and down nap-of-the- earth under undulating terrain, but they are firing rocket pods, and rocket pods are not precision weapons, they're somewhat the artillery of the air.
So it's difficult to really get a target strike with that unless you're literally pointing at the target, and you could see the helicopter was flying over the terrain, and as they just fired their rockets, they are really aiming toward an area for an area fire versus a precise target.
COOPER: So what would more advanced aircraft, advanced helicopters or you know, gunships or aircraft, what would that allow Ukrainian forces to do that they can't?
HERTLING: Well, in some cases, as certainly the advanced western style aircraft, Sam mentioned the Blackhawk, I just kind of chaffed a little bit when he said they're ancient, because they are not ancient. They're actually pretty new in the Army's inventory, but it will allow them more transport, it would give them guns on the side, the same kind of rocket pods.
What I think that pilots are talking about are more the attack helicopters, like Apaches or even Cobras. Those are extremely expensive, very technologically advanced. It takes a whole lot of training and a whole lot of maintenance, but they fire precision weapons from the aircraft and they can be tank killers from literally almost up to 12 kilometers away.
COOPER: But the training on that, how long does that take?
HERTLING: It is immense. You know, there has been talk a lot about the F-16s. You would probably have to put as much time in an Apache helicopter as you would for an F-16 and there is a language saying we need to give them the F-16.
Yuriy Ignat who is the spokesman for the Ukrainian Air Force just said last week that it would take Ukrainian pilots a couple of weeks to just learn how to fly the fighter jets, but about six months to really master how to fight the aircraft. That's about the same for an Apache helicopter because they are so technologically advanced. They have heads up displays on their helmets themselves, it takes two pilots, and it would just really take a very long training time besides being extremely expensive.
COOPER: Yes, General Hertling, I appreciate it. Thank you.
We have new details now on a stunning report we brought you earlier this week. The report details the transportation of as many as 6,000 children from occupied parts of Ukraine to a network of camps across Russia and occupied Crimea, according to the report by the Yale Humanitarian Research Lab.
Some kids have been given weapons training. Many have undergone forms of indoctrination or reeducation. Some have been sent to foster families in Russia or put up for Russian adoption.
In effect, they are stolen from Ukraine.
Tonight, the Russian official at the center of this program, more about her. Her title sounds like something that George Orwell might have come up with, Presidential Commissioner for Children's Rights.
CNN's Melissa Bell has more.
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): She claims to be the savior of Ukrainian children.
(MARIA LVOVA-BELOVA speaking in foreign language.)
BELL (voice over): Demure, devout, and devoted she says to welcoming orphaned or abandoned children of war to the Motherland.
(MARIA LVOVA-BELOVA speaking in foreign language.)
TRANSLATION: Welcome to Moscow.
BELL (voice over): But this is no humanitarian adoption program. Russia's Children's Rights Commissioner is in fact in charge of something far more sinister.
According to both the American and European governments, and a new report by Yale University, thousands of Ukrainian children have been forcibly deported to Russia.
NATHANIEL RAYMOND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, YALE HUMANITARIAN RESEARCH LAB: Maria Lvova-Belova is basically the point person at the Kremlin level for this entire program.
BELL (on camera): And so, these children are essentially being held hostage.
BELL (voice over): The woman in charge is herself a 38-year-old mother of at least 10, including five adopted children and her work takes her all the way into the occupied territories.
MARIA LVOVA-BELOVA, PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSIONER FOR CHILDREN'S RIGHTS (through translator): This time we came to Mariupol itself We will do everything for the children and teenagers who are here.
BELL (voice over): From Lvova-Belova's Telegram channel to Russian propaganda videos, the deportations are no secret, yet the children are totally beyond the reach of either their families or Ukrainian authorities.
ALYONA LUNYOVA, ADVOCACY DIRECTOR, ZMINA HUMAN RIGHTS CENTER: Some of those children are really small. We see on the propaganda video of Russian that, you know, seven, six months, you know, four years. Those children just do not remember where they are from, who are their parents.
BELL (voice over): And once across the border, there is no contact anyway. Some are adopted by Russian families, others are taken to what are billed as summer camps, in fact, reeducation centers aimed at turning Ukrainian children into Russian citizens.
LVOVA-BELOVA (through translator): Unfortunately, we see that these children were brought up in a completely different culture and they did not watch the same films our children watched. They did not study history as our children did.
BELL (voice over): But Ukrainian lawyers fighting for the return of the children fear that those already adopted may be lost for good.
KATERYNA RASHEVSKA, UKRAINIAN LAWYER: During this process of adoption, parents can change all personal data, names, surnames, date of birth, and we think that some children that transferred to Russia without documents.
BELL (voice over): Among those already adopted is a young boy from Mariupol by Maria Lvova-Belova herself. At first, she says he sang the Ukrainian National Anthem. Now, he is a good boy, as she told Vladimir Putin himself this week.
(MARIA LVOVA-BELOVA speaking in foreign language.)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Did you adopt the child from Mariupol yourself?
LVOVA-BELOVA (through translator): Yes, thanks to you. Fifteen years old. Now, I know what it means to be a mother of a child from Donbas. It's difficult, but we definitely love each other.
COOPER: Melissa Bell joins us now. I mean, this is really just sickening.
I mean, according to Yale's Nathaniel Raymond, who you talked to, I mean, this is a program designed by Russia for its own audience. Can you just talk about why that would be? What is the benefit to them?
BELL: That's right. It is all about propaganda, really, Anderson, when you look at it. This is about speaking to the Russian people. Now, of course, for us from the outside, it is incredibly chilling.
As you say, these are children after all, who are being used as pawns and find themselves on the wrong side of the border.
For the Russian authorities, this is threefold according to Nathaniel Raymond. This is about first of all, turning those Ukrainian children into Russian citizens. It is also though, about convincing the Russian public that this was a humanitarian effort. This is after all what the invasion was about.
Of course, the third reason he says is that these children turned then into these kinds of pawns that can be exchanged. POWs if you like, they can be used as leverage and bargained over.
COOPER: And international law is clear on the matter of children being deported across borders.
BELL: That's right. Crystal clear, Anderson. It is simply not allowed.
In fact, some of the first trials of the Nuremberg Trials at the end of the Nazi occupation in the Second World War were precisely on this matter, because international law is crystal clear, you cannot move children across borders, you cannot take them from one country to another, and for very important reasons that we as parents understand. They are vulnerable and it simply cannot be done.
And what Nathaniel Raman was saying was that this was particularly chilling. Here is a team of war crimes investigators. Usually, he says, they look at the dead. This time, they're looking at the living, and not just the living, but the youngest, the most vulnerable of all.
And that, of course, is the most chilling thing about this. And that is of course, why it's being done. It's not just about the children and we can only imagine what these children are going through. It is not just about the parents and the families, and we can only imagine what it is for them.
Some of them have had to go and retrieve their children going to get in Russia, all the way through Russia, to try and get them back from these camps. In the end, it is also about the fact that these children are about the future of Ukraine, and this is the point. It is a very deliberate strategy of trying to deprive one country of its future -- Anderson.
COOPER: And that woman having adopted a child from Mariupol, which is a city decimated by Russian forces and we all saw the bombing of the theater there that had people in it. I mean, we saw what they did to Mariupol. It is incredible.
Melissa Bell, appreciate it. Thanks very much.
Coming up next, newly released e-mails and messages from inside FOX News revealing what network executives and their on-air hosts knew about the 2020 election lie while promoting that same lie to viewers.
And later tonight, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta with American volunteers in Turkey providing life-saving care at a makeshift field hospital in the quake zone.
COOPER: A television news network that knows one thing to be true, but when the cameras are rolling, they tell their viewers something else entirely. That is the central allegation detailed in Dominion Voting Systems' Court filing in its massive defamation case against FOX News.
Now because of it, there is now page after page of material from inside the network revealing that FOX senior executives and on-air talent knew that the former President's lies about the 2020 presidential election were indeed lies and then knowing this but afraid of losing viewership, those executives and those on-air people perpetuated those same lies, lies that according to the filing even FOX Chairman Rupert Murdoch called "really crazy stuff."
More now from CNN is Brian Todd.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Immediately after Joe Biden's 2020 victory, FOX News hosts were unabashed in promoting the false declarations that the election had been stolen from Donald Trump.
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, "TUCKER CARLSON TONIGHT": Electronic voting machines didn't allow people to vote apparently and that, whatever you think of it, the cause of it, it shakes people's faith in the system. That is an actual threat to democracy.
SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, "HANNITY": I can factually tell you tonight, it will be impossible to ever know the true, fair, accurate election results.
TODD (voice over): But tonight, a new Court filing shows that in private, FOX hosts, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, and Sean Hannity were brutally ridiculing the claims of election fraud and the people who were making them.
Their private messages in a legal filing that's part of Dominion Voting Systems' $1.6 billion lawsuit against FOX News. One person they insulted, Trump campaign lawyer, Sidney Powell, a vociferous election lie promoter.
SIDNEY POWELL, TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWYER: What we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through Venezuela, Cuba, and likely China.
TODD (voice over): In one text revealed in the Court filing, Tucker Carlson texted Laura Ingraham saying: "Sidney Powell is lying. I caught her, it's insane." Ingraham responded: "Sidney is a complete nut. No one will work with her. Ditto with Rudy," a reference to Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and his post-election claims.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: There was a plan from a centralized place to execute these various acts of voter fraud.
TODD (voice over): In other messages, Sean Hannity said Giuliani was: "Acting like an insane person." Ingraham described Giuliani as an "idiot." FOX Corporation Chairman, Rupert Murdoch said it was "really bad" that Giuliani was advising Trump.
ERIK WEMPLE, MEDIA CRITIC, "THE WASHINGTON POST": This tells you a lot about FOX News' internal machinations. It tells you that they have one version of the world that they keep to themselves and another version of the world that they broadcast to their viewers. The two are entirely incompatible. TODD (voice over): But FOX kept promoting election denialism.
In one instance, a FOX reporter did a factcheck on election lies. Tucker Carlson texted Sean Hannity saying: "Please get her fired. Seriously. What the eff?" He goes on: "I'm actually shocked. It needs to stop immediately, like tonight. It's measurably hurting the company."
Why did FOX keep pushing election denial on the air?
The findings in the Dominion suit suggests that FOX executives were worried about losing viewers to Newsmax, a smaller conservative channel that was constantly selling election denial.
Trump himself furious that FOX had called Arizona for Biden, had encouraged his followers to switch to Newsmax.
WEMPLE: Since 2002, FOX News has basically been the preeminent ratings champion in cable news. And you see here, the moment that they see any sign that might be slipping away, it is panic.
TODD (voice over): But the Dominion filings also say that when then President Trump tried to call into FOX on January 6th, the day his supporters attacked the Capitol, FOX executives refused to put Trump on the air.
TODD (on camera): FOX News denies Dominion's claims in the lawsuit and says it is proud of its 2020 election coverage. FOX says these new Court filings contained cherry picked quotes that lacked context.
In a statement, FOX accused Dominion of generating "noise and confusion" and said the core of this case remains freedom of speech and freedom of the press -- Anderson.
COOPER: Brian Todd, appreciate it. Extraordinary.
Joining us now is Mary Anne Franks. She teaches law at the University of Miami with focus on the First and Second Amendments.
Mary Anne, given the communications from FOX News personalities and management, privately dismissing the former President's voter fraud claims while promoting them on air and Dominion's repeated e-mails over the course of, I think weeks or months to executives and on-air talents and producers informing them that what they were saying was not true. Does Dominion's case to you meet the legal standard of actual malice?
MARY ANNE FRANKS, CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR: It certainly seems really compelling. What these documents show is that when we're looking for evidence of actual malice, which in regular person terms is really just knowing or having strong doubts about whether something is true and deciding to pursue the amplification anyway.
These documents are showing that multiple people higher ups at FOX really did know that these things were false, not just that they doubted it, but they absolutely knew that they were false, and nonetheless decided to continue to promote that narrative.
COOPER: What sticks out to you as the most damning evidence here?
FRANKS: It's really hard to pick in some ways, because what you have is so many accounts of so many various people at FOX, who are speaking amongst themselves and talking about how they know these things are false, how they know that their audience is wanting something that is a comforting narrative that has no basis in reality, and how because they are eager to do the bidding of a failed President, and because they're eager to make sure that they continue to have this market share that they're going to do it anyway, that they're not going to care about the truth, that they're not going to care about freedom of expression, but they're going to care mostly about profits and market share.
COOPER: FOX News argues that they were merely reporting on something that was newsworthy and that much of the voter fraud conversations happened on opinion shows, which were on a forum for actual facts. Do you think there's any merit to that argument?
FRANKS: There is a real fine line sometimes between newsworthiness and defamation, but newsworthiness is something along the lines of reporting on the controversy. The President is making these allegations, a responsible media outlet is going to talk about the sourcing for those allegations, the evidence for those allegations, they don't present them as though they were true or with no contrary narrative. They wouldn't simply just try to amplify them as if they were true.
So, it may be newsworthy that the President was making those allegations, but that doesn't mean you simply give unfiltered access and amplification to those claims when they have no basis in fact.
COOPER: Do you think this case will go to a jury trial? Or do you think there's a chance it could get settled?
FRANKS: It's possible at this stage that there really will be a summary judgment. It is hard to predict what will happen. The stakes of this case are really high, not just in terms of the outcome of this lawsuit, but in terms of ethical standards and whether or not news media outlets can really say and hide behind claims like the First Amendment when they're deliberately deceiving their audiences for profit.
COOPER: It's just fascinating to see these internal documents and these conversations between these on-air people.
Mary Anne Franks, appreciate it.
What do voters in South Carolina think about their former Governor entering the presidential race taking on the former President? And what if their current senator, Tim Scott, gets in as well? Our Gary Tuchman went to the Palmetto State to find out, that's ahead.
COOPER: There soon could be another South Carolina Republican in addition to Nikki Haley seeking the 2024 presidential nomination. Tim Scott, the party's only Black Senator may launch his own campaign. He has kicked off what his team is calling a National Listening Tour, and is expected to speak next week in the early primary State of Iowa.
Just last night, he was keynote speaker in an event in Charleston. Our Gary Tuchman was also there and talked with voters.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A packed ballroom with many of South Carolina's Republican movers and shakers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm retired. I used to be a banker. I made other people rich.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): This is the city and county of Charleston, South Carolina. The occasion, the Fifth Annual Black History Month Banquet sponsored by the county Republican Party. The keynote speaker, South Carolina Republican U.S. Senator Tim Scott.
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: My story is the American story.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): And Scott's story could soon include running for President.
NIKKI HALEY, FORMER GOVERNOR: I am running for president of the United States of America.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): His fellow South Carolinian, former Governor Nikki Haley, already is. These Republicans in the Palmetto state are enjoying the attention.
ROGER O'SULLIVAN, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN: And we were definitely a Trump state and think people still have a great deal of feeling for him. But then there's a baby Nikki. She decided she is going to run and there's a lot of passion for her too.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Larry Kobrovsky is a Republican Charleston County Council Member.
LARRY KOBROVSKY, CHARLESTON COUNTY COUNCIL: Well, it makes you feel pride because both of them are legitimate contenders and you could imagine either of them being president.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): And indeed, a number of Republicans we talk to here are ready to commit to one of their fellow South Carolinians.
ALESHA DEAN, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN: I love him, Scott. I just feel like he's got our best interests at heart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's true.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): But not necessarily on the top of the ticket.
(on-camera): If you could set your own ticket, who would you vote for for presidency?
JOHN LUNN, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN: DeSantis and Haley would be vice president. Or DeSantis and Tim Scott would be vice president.
GLENN DILL, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN: My suspicion is that the one that will be electable will be DeSantis.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): But Mark Knapp, a lifelong Charlestonian, still thinks Donald Trump can win and is ready to vote for him again.
MARK KNAPP, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN: I don't know if Nikki's really got what it takes to deal with the swamp.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): What about Tim Scott if he announces he's running for president?
KNAPP: I like Tim a lot, but I haven't seen the demeanor I think it's going to take to wrestle with those scallywags in Washington.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): There are some Democrats who came to this gala to celebrate Black History month, but most everyone else we talked to did vote for Donald Trump twice. However, we met quite a few who are looking for a fresh face.
(on-camera): Why wouldn't you vote for Trump again?
ROSS WARD, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN Trump is divisive. He is -- he continues to play divisive politics cards, and he hasn't grown up since.
KEVIN MCFADDEN, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN: I don't think I'm on the side of leaning towards where we've been. I'm more focused on leaders of presenting new opportunities and where we could go from here.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): Does that mean that you're not leaning towards voting for Donald Trump?
MCFADDEN: That's -- that would be my personal preference, yes.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Not surprisingly, at this early stage, the majority of people we talk to say they are not sure who they will vote for yet.
JAMIE ROBINSON, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN: I've been a Republican since 1988 when I was a freshman in college. So I am very dedicated to the party.
TUCHMAN (on-camera): But you don't know which Republican you like just yet?
ROBINSON: Too soon. TUCHMAN (voice-over): And that's what the chair of this county's Republican Party, Maurice Washington likes to hear. He wants this campaign to be a competition, not a coronation.
MAURICE WASHINGTON, CHAIRMAN, CHARLESTON COUNTY GOP: This is not going to be less park to see and allow the former president to walk through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Gary joins us now from Charleston. During Senator Scott's speech, did he raise the possibility of running?
TUCHMAN: Senator Scott did not mention the presidential race during a speech, Anderson. But before the speech he held a short session with journalists, local journalists not admitted were the national journalists. So reporter from the Post and Courier, which is the daily newspaper here in Charleston, asked the question, will he endorse Nikki Haley? His response to her was, quote, next question.
Also, the paper says a question was asked to him, what would lead him to going into the presidential race? And his answer to that was, quote, I'm not going to dodge your question, but I'm also not going to answer it. There you are. Anderson?
COOPER: Which is an answer in and of itself.
Gary Tuchman, appreciate it. Thank you.
Perspective now from former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, he's now a CNN Senior Political commentator. So, I mean, it certainly seems like some Republicans are ready to move on from the former president. Do you think they actually want to move on from Trumpism?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's a good question. And, you know, I think what's interesting right now, so Nikki Haley and by the way, I'm actually personally a Tim Scott fan, I know him personally, he's a good man. But Nikki Haley, she has an opportunity to distinguish herself.
Let's just take the issue of Ukraine. You know, Donald Trump has been very clear he would cut off aid to Ukraine. Ron DeSantis really hasn't said anything about Ukraine. And Nikki Haley could be -- keep in mind, most Republicans still support us supporting Ukraine in that war, but she's kind of avoided that issue.
She's going out of her way to not distinguish herself from Donald Trump. And I personally think that means, a, she maybe just making a play for vice president, but the other thing, b, I think it means that she is not -- I think, missing the opportunity to be different because you have to distinguish yourself from Trumpism.
So I think there's going to be a lot of people that in the Republican Party still that like Trump or Trumpism. But I think there's a real opportunity for the person to come forward and present an optimistic, hopeful scenario for the future.
COOPER: I mean, how tarnished is she by her association with the former president? I mean, when, you know, when the -- back in 2015, 2016, she was supporting Marco Rubio. She was, you know, saying some very tough things about the then candidate, Donald Trump. Obviously, she went to work for him, ultimately.
KINZINGER: Yes. I mean, that's like 99 percent of Republicans out there have that same thing.
COOPER: That's true.
KINZINGER: So I think in her case, I think what's done damage to her when it comes to Trump is the fact that she has been for him and against him, then for him, then against him wasn't going to run and then is now running.
KINZINGER: So the -- like Donald Trump, they already don't trust her. Those that don't like Donald Trump don't trust her. She has an opportunity to distinguish herself as far as being involved in the administration. She actually did a really good job, I think, as U.N. ambassador. So I don't think being in the administration is necessarily going to taint her. It's been her, yes, and nos, hot and colds on Donald Trump.
COOPER: How formidable do you think Tim Scott would be?
KINZINGER: Look, I'll tell you, since I even met Tim Scott in 2011, I was elected with him in the House. I always had in my mind, this guy is at least going to make a solid run for the presidency and probably be president. There is -- most people may know his name, they don't know his story. Once his story gets out there, it's really breathtaking. His whole life is breathtaking.
And I think he's always been my kind of dark horse candidate in this race that I think nobody was talking about until fairly recently. But I see him as not a great comparison, but kind of Bill Clinton in '92 and ended up rocketing to the top.
COOPER: They're already -- I mean, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, Mike Pompeo, I mean, Bolton, it seems like there's already a fair number of people, you know, in getting close to running in one form or another. It seems like there's going to be -- I mean, do we risk? Is there the risk of a, you know, of a huge field that then benefits the former president?
KINZINGER: There's a huge risk. Huge risk. Just like 2016 happened, it really could happen again now. And it's a big worry for Republicans.
COOPER: Yes. Adam Kinzinger, I appreciate your time. Thanks so very much.
KINZINGER: You bet. COOPER: Still ahead, after the devastating earthquake in Turkey, destroyed thousands of buildings, including hospitals, doctors being forced to get creative as they attend to the survivors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Just to give you an idea, we're in a tent in the middle of a parking lot outside the hospital in a quake zone, and they're doing orthopedic surgery here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A lot more in these remarkable operations next.
COOPER: Tonight, with the death toll in Turkey and Syria now at more than 43,000, Turkey's vice president says there are less than 200 search and rescue operations still ongoing in the country, despite the stories of rescues are still emerging. According to the Turkish Health Minister, a 45-year-old man was found alive today after 278 hours under the rubble.
Another challenge is surfacing. Turkish officials say -- today said at least 90,000 buildings are either collapsed or ready to be demolished. Some of the destroyed buildings include hospitals, and that's forcing doctors to get innovative.
Our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is in Turkey with more.
GUPTA (voice-over): You are watching an operation on 35-year-old Hassan Gochair (ph). He has two fractures in his femur and these doctors are working intently to stabilize the bone. Just watching this, you probably can't tell where this operation is actually taking place.
(on-camera): Just to give you an idea, we're in a tent in the middle of a parking lot outside the hospital in a quake zone, and they're doing orthopedic surgery here.
DR. GREG HELLWARTH, ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON: Is that Dr. Gupta?
GUPTA (on-camera): Yes, it is.
HELLWARTH: Oh my goodness. Good to see you.
GUPTA (on-camera): How are you doing?
(voice-over): This is Dr. Greg Hellwarth, an orthopedic surgeon from Indiana, who flew over as soon as he heard about the earthquake. Right now, Dr. Hellwarth is worried about bleeding. So over here, in another part of the tent, they have found Hassan's brother to be a match and have him hooked up and quickly donating. A true blood brother.
In the middle of a natural disaster, you do whatever it takes to save a life.
(on-camera): What would have happened to someone like him if he didn't have this operation?
HELLWARTH: I've worked in places before where people like this and don't have the operation. They lay at home, languish. Some of them would get bed sores, blood clots, pneumonia and maybe die from that.
GUPTA (voice-over): Before the earthquake, Hassan would have likely gotten his operation here at this hospital in Antakya in southern Turkey. It's still standing on the outside, yes, but completely wrecked inside. No longer functional.
DR. ELLIOTT TENPENNY, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL HEALTH UNIT FOR SAMARITAN'S PURSE: This hospital is destroyed. So there's no other place to seek care. It's not just about the broken bones and the crush injuries, it's about these patients also. Supply chain is a real challenge.
GUPTA (voice-over): This is the team from Samaritan's Purse. Elliot Tenpenny is an ER doctor from North Carolina.
TENPENNY: We have had aftershocks 4, 5.0 and it sways the tents back and forth and knocks things over, but nothing major.
GUPTA (on-camera): So all the work that you need to do can still be done?
TENPENNY: Yes, absolutely.
GUPTA (voice-over): Over just 36 hours, they put up all these tents, set up generators, communication dishes, even brought their own water purifiers.
TENPENNY: We use this machine here. It's a reverse osmosis machine. It allows us to get it from anywhere, including the ocean, and do desalination if we want to.
GUPTA (on-camera): And then you just keep it in these bladders and it's in use -- and these look full. So you -- that this is a process constantly happening.
TENPENNY: That's right.
GUPTA (voice-over): All of this so they're able to give the best care to their patients. Like one year old Nemeth (ph), his mother, Sasan (ph), glue to his side, telling us her story through a translator.
[20:45:10] (on-camera): And what was happening to him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): He couldn't breathe anymore.
GUPTA (voice-over): She thought he had the flu the past few days. But things got worse this morning, maybe from the fumes. As many people have been doing, they were burning plastic to stay warm. The diagnosis, bronchitis and asthma. So severe. He was put on anesthetic gasses to open up his airways and keep him alive.
Hassan is alive as well, recovering with his brother's blood providing sustenance. Care plus prayers is giving these patients hope and an entire community devastated with loss, a lifeline.
COOPER: And Sanjay joins me now from Istanbul. How is the one-year-old suffering from bronchitis and asthma doing now?
GUPTA: He's doing well, Anderson. I -- in fact, we got some photographs just this morning. I don't know if you can see those, but he's doing well. They were holding him up, making sure his airways stayed open. They flew him to Adana, to the large trauma hospital now to care for him. And we hear that he is expected to make a good recovery.
It's really interesting, Anderson. They were giving him ketamine and anesthetic gases essentially to try and keep his airways open. I mean, he was at real risk of having, you know, significant respiratory distress. That's something they were able to do in those tents, as you saw.
COOPER: It's incredible. The hospital that's destroyed and the inside, I mean, it looks huge. How long can Samaritan's Purse stay to help?
GUPTA: Yes. You know, we wanted to show you those hospitals because I think people don't always have an idea of like what we're talking about here in terms of the scale of loss. That was an 1,100-bed hospital, so it provided a lot of care for this huge region. The hospital I work at, for example, in a big city in the states, fewer than 1,000 beds. So these are big hospitals here in Turkey.
They realized that they got to not only provide acute care, Samaritan's Purse, but probably chronic care, at least for months to come. So we don't know how long they're going to be here. Samaritan's Purse has also been in Ukraine, for example, doing similar sorts of work. They come at the behest of the government and then they stay really, they say as long as they're needed.
And all those tents, all those supplies, the generators, all that that you just saw there, they leave here, they leave that as a footprint for people to use, you know, in the months and years to come.
COOPER: Sanjay, appreciate it. Thanks so much. Coming up, we have major developments in the double murder trial of Alex Murdaugh. The prosecution say resting its case as a state investigator offered probably the most detailed timeline of events on the night of the murders. We have details of that ahead.
COOPER: The prosecution rested its case today in the double murder trial of disgraced former South Carolina Attorney Alex Murdaugh. Their last witness, a state investigator who gave a detailed minute by minute timeline from the night of the murders. And some of his testimony conflicts with statements made by Murdaugh.
Our Randi Kaye was in the courtroom today and has details.
PETER RUDOFSKI, SLED INVESTIGATOR: This is going to be the full timeline.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Special agent Peter Rudofski analyzed cell phone data from phones belonging to the victims and Alex Murdaugh, as well as GPS data recovered from their cars. He presented a timeline to the jury from the night of the murders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then at 8:44:55, what does it reflect on Paul's phone.
RUDOFSKI: You can hear Alex, Maggie and Paul in the background.
KAYE (voice-over): Rudofski testified about a key piece of video extracted from Paul Murdaugh's cell phone, that witnesses say puts Alex Murdaugh at the scene just before prosecutors say Paul and his mother were killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What time did Paul and Maggie's phones go silent forever?
RUDOFSKI: 8:49 is when their phones went silent forever.
KAYE (voice-over): Rudofski told the jury that minutes after the murders are believed to have occurred, Alex Murdaugh's phone showed more steps taken than at any other point that evening.
RUDOFSKI: 283 steps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a busy guy right then, wasn't he?
KAYE (voice-over): The witness says cell phone data also shows someone moved Maggie Murdaugh's phone minutes after she died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 9:06:12, what happens?
RUDOFSKI: Maggie Murdaugh's phone implements orient change -- orientation change from portrait to orientation sideways.
KAYE (voice-over): According to earlier testimony, Alex Murdaugh left the house that night around that same time, 90:06 p.m. to go visit his mother. GPS data from his car shows on his drive, he slowed down right around the spot where his wife's phone was found in the woods the following day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After passing that location, is the defendant's vehicle start to accelerate?
RUDOFSKI: It does.
KAYE (voice-over): Rudofski also told the jury data shows Murdaugh arrived at his mother's house at 09:22 p.m. and left there at 09:43 p.m.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So roughly 20-minute period (INAUDIBLE)?
RUDOFSKI: Roughly 20 minutes, correct.
KAYE (voice-over): That's key because Murdaugh had told investigators in an interview played in court this week that he was at his mother's house for about an hour. But this GPS data shows he was there for just about 21 minutes. His mother's caretaker also testified earlier that he stopped by for about 15 to 20 minutes.
Cell phone data shows Murdaugh arrived back home at the murder scene just before calling 911 at 10:06 p.m.
RUDOFSKI: This is showing the suburban arriving at the kennels 10:05:57 p.m.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the moment, suburban arrived at the kennels, how long did it take for that 911 call to be made?
RUDOFSKI: Less than 20 seconds.
KAYE (voice-over): Remember, Murdaugh told investigators he tried to turn his son over a couple of times and checked the pulse on both Paul and Maggie all before calling 911.
PHILLIP BARBER, ALEX MURDAUGH DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If the person getting out of the car had seen the bodies already and already knew something that's horribly wrong, do you believe that that is an unreasonably short period of time to inspect and call 911?
RUDOFSKI: I'm here to testify on this data, not the hypothetical.
COOPER: Randi joins me now from South Carolina. It is fascinating to me what they can figure out with this GPS data. I mean, the steps that he took right afterward, the slowing down of the car. I mean, it's incredible.
KAYE: Yes, it was a minute-by-minute timeline and the jury really needed to hear it to put everything just in order for them because they've heard so much evidence. But Anderson, at one point where they point out that Alex Murdaugh's car had slowed down around the very same spot where Maggie Murdaugh's phone was found the next day in the woods, the prosecution seemed to want to suggest to the jury that maybe Alex Murdaugh took her phone from the murder scene and then slowed down at that very spot --
KAYE: -- to perhaps toss it out the window. And then they also pointed out that on his way home back to Moselle, the property where the murders happened, he was driving really, really fast, reaching 81 miles per house, at one point faster than he'd driven all day. And these are dark, windy roads. There are a lot of deer. The prosecution again seeming to want to suggest that perhaps he was in some rush to get home, Anderson.
COOPER: It's fascinating. Randy Kaye, I appreciate it. Thank you.
Quick programming note, the HBO Max documentary series "Low Country: The Murdoch Dynasty," which, if you haven't seen it, it's really quite incredible. Starts this Sunday night at 08:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. It's got a lot of detail and video that you've never seen before, probably.
Coming up, did he or didn't he? Tiger Woods attempt to make the cut nearly two years after the accident that almost cost him his leg. An update next.