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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Tucker Carlson Out At FOX; Blinken: Ceasefire Declared In Sudan's Civil War; Suspect In Custody, One Person Dead In Oklahoma College Shooting; "Tennessee Three" Meets With Biden To Discuss Gun Control; Tennessee Gov. Lee Calls For "Temporary Mental Health Orders Of Protection" To Combat Gun Violence; Officer Who Fired Fatal Shot In Breonna Taylor Botched Raid Hired By A Nearby County Sheriff's Office. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 24, 2023 - 20:00   ET


ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: That's a 41 percent drop. It is a staggering number.

The revelations coming during the bank's highly anticipated and incredibly choreographed investor call. Executives then also announced that they plan to cut the workforce, lay people off to lose a quarter of their workforce, and they didn't take any reporter questions.

Thanks for joining us. It's time now for "AC360."



New details tonight about the removal of Tucker Carlson from FOX News. FOX made the announcement this morning, six days after the company settled with Dominion Voting Systems for more than three-quarters of a billion dollars.

Had that case gone to trial, Carlson likely would have been forced to testify about how the 2020 election lies that FOX was helping to spread on screen were at odds with what it stars, including him, were saying off screen.

Carlson texted other staffers that he "passionately" -- that's a quote -- hated former President Donald Trump and that Trump's tenure in the White House was a "disaster."

He also used misogynistic terms to criticize pro-Trump lawyer, Sidney Powell and rejected her conspiracies about the 2020 election, even as those false claims got repeated airtime on FOX News.

His text messages after the election released by Dominion's attorneys also showed Carlson disparaging FOX leadership. Now, whether his sudden departure is actually connected to the Dominion case or other lawsuits facing FOX or other reasons is a topic we'll get into in a moment.

FOX in his statement only said it and Carlson, "have agreed to part ways," and then thanked him for his service, and said his last show was this past Friday.

I am joined now by our senior media reporter, Oliver Darcy.

So do we know exactly why he was ousted?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: I would imagine that you can't disconnect this from that big Dominion suit.

Even though Tucker Carlson wasn't a focal point of the suit, he did loom large over it. He was set to be one of the first witnesses that was going to testify in the case and there were a lot of disparaging remarks that he did make about his colleagues, including FOX News leadership and FOX leadership that came out.

You know, he used a lot of -- he was very critical to say -- to be generous to him -- about the people running FOX, and so I think that may have played a role.

And there is also that pending lawsuit now from his ex-booker, Abby Grossberg who alleged rampant sexism, anti-Semitic behavior that was running wild on his show, and then he's also got this legal notice from Ray Epps who he made part of a central January 6 conspiracy theory on his program.

And so, there is all of these litigation that's got Carlson's name over it, and you have the Dominion lawsuit, and so it seems that FOX at some point just said, enough is enough. We're going to fire him from the network.

And so we know now that Lachlan Murdoch, the Fox Corporation CEO, as well as Suzanne Scott, the FOX new CEO, they made the decision Friday evening to let him go, and on Monday morning, that's when Carlson was abruptly informed that he was no longer with the network. They put out that short statement.

And I should note, too, we haven't heard a word from Carlson since this all went down. I've texted him, called him. He is not answering me. He's not answering anyone else. He is totally silent.

COOPER: And so, there has been no comment from him. Do we know, is he paid out of his contract?

DARCY: I assume he is going to be paid out of his contract, and "The Journal" reports that he was making upwards of $20 million a year. "The Wall Street Journal," of course, owned by Rupert Murdoch, and so I assume that figure is quite accurate.

COOPER: Were there any signs that this was in the works?

DARCY: I think this caught everyone off guard. I mean, no one was really expecting that Tucker Carlson would lose his 8:00 PM perch. I mean, he was the highest rated host over at FOX News and he seemed untouchable. He seemed invincible.

And he often like kind of touted that on the show. He would do things that other hosts would just simply not do, and that is because he seemed to have and enjoy the backing of both Lachlan Murdoch and Rupert Murdoch for all these years.

I mean, they were with him through so many controversies. He would make White nationalist remarks on the show. They would be with him. He would promote conspiracy theories about COVID, January 6. They really backed him through all of this and so to see him now lose that is remarkable.

COOPER: I mean, if it was about text messages about disparaging the leadership at FOX, that would be kind of stunning if that's what it was that got him booted, as opposed to so many of the things he said on air, but we may never know the full details.

Now, Oliver Darcy, appreciate it.

Shortly after Carlson's ouster, it was announced, the head of the Anti-Defamation League, Jonathan Greenblatt tweeted this: "It's about time. For far too long, Tucker Carlson has used his primetime show to spew anti-Semitic racist, xenophobic, and anti-LGBTQ hate to millions. ADL has long called for his firing for this and many other offenses including spreading the Great Replacement Theory."

Our Gary Tuckman has more on the conspiracies that Carlson helped to promote.

(Begin VT)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Tucker Carlson is a broadcasting instigator. The 2020 election --

TUCKER CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: The outcome of our presidential election was seized from the hands of voters.

TUCHMAN: The Capitol insurrection.

CARLSON: These were not insurrectionists, they were sightseers.


TUCHMAN: The former cop who murdered George Floyd.

CARLSON: I'm kind of more worried about the rest of the country, which thanks to police in action, in case you haven't noticed is like, boarded up. So, that's more my concern.

TUCHMAN: And even regarding the green M&M candy no longer wearing go- go boots.

CARLSON: M&Ms will not be satisfied until every last cartoon character is deeply unappealing and totally androgynous.

TUCHMAN: Fifty-three-year-old Tucker Carlson has worked at CNN, PBS, and MSNBC. But it was his job at FOX News that made him one of the most powerful voices in conservative politics, and a leader of the modern conspiracy movement.

Carlson told his viewers this right after the 2020 presidential election.

CARLSON: What happened last night could not have been worse for this country, for our children, for our grandchildren, for our future.

MACDONALD: And as Donald Trump continued to beat his drum of lies --

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a fraud on the American public.

So we'll be going to the US Supreme Court.

TUCHMAN: Carlson continued to enable him

CARLSON: Seventy-two million voters believe this election was fundamentally unfair, and they're right about that.

TUCHMAN: But behind Trump's back, Tucker Carlson was blasting him, contradicting what he was saying on his TV show.

According to private text messages released as part of Dominion Voting Systems lawsuit against FOX, Carlson said this to co-workers: "Trump needs to concede. There wasn't enough fraud to change the outcome. He is starting to do real damage to the party." And, "We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can't wait."

And two days before the January 6 insurrection, he wrote: "I hate him passionately. I can't handle much more of this."

Carlson became a vocal proponent of those who thought immigrants have been coming to the United States to ethnically and culturally replace White people. A racist conspiracy known as the Great Replacement Theory.

(PROTESTERS chanting "Jews will not replace us.")

TUCHMAN: Which was illustrated in horrific fashion in Charlottesville, Virginia.

CARLSON: This is a voting rights question. I have less political power because they're importing a brand new electorate. Why should I sit back and take that?

TUCHMAN: And then there's the insurrection. This Carlson lie is still trotted out by conspiracy theorists.

CARLSON: FBI operatives were organizing the attack on the Capitol on January 6th according to government documents.

TUCHMAN: Carlson ended up getting sole access to thousands of hours of January 6th Capitol security videotape from Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, which Carlson selectively sanitized, angering many, including Republicans.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): I think it was, yes, it was an attack on the Capitol.

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD): I thought it was an insurrection at that time, I still think it was an insurrection today.

TUCHMAN: And then recently, this Carlson take on the culture wars through a racist prism.

JUSTIN PEARSON (D), TENNESSEE STATE REPRESENTATIVE: You were with democracy last night.

TUCHMAN: He said this about Tennessee State Representative Justin Pearson, who was expelled from office, but then got his job back.

CARLSON: Justin Pearson wasn't White, that's probably how we got into Bowdoin in the first place, but he did a fantastic impression of it. What a nice young man. Has he considered the apprenticeship program at Citibank?

TUCHMAN: And there was this about transgender rights.

CARLSON: Transgenderists do not believe in the God of monotheism. They believe that they themselves are god with the power to control nature, and if you think about it, this should be a concern because it's a recipe for extremism.

TUCHMAN: Extreme is what many believe Tucker Carlson has become, but at least for now, his powerful megaphone is gone.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, New York.


COOPER: I'm joined now by CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, Paul Begala, who used to work with Tucker Carlson here on CNN when they co-hosted "Crossfire," which seems like many, many eons ago in terms of the personality of Tucker Carlson.

What do you make of Carlson's exit from FOX News? And how does what he said and did on that network over the years square with the person you worked with on "Crossfire"?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good question, in fact, you used to do the news cut-ins on "Crossfire" when we were hosting 20 years ago, Anderson.

Look, most of those shows back then, it's 20 years ago, were about one topic, the Iraq War. Tucker was for it, I was against it. And it's not he's not -- he doesn't have those views anymore. The kind of neoconservative foreign policy.

He doesn't even want to send weapons to Ukraine, to oppose Putin, but he wanted to send troops to Iraq to oppose Saddam. And domestically, he seemed to be a libertarian then. He seems not at all to be a libertarian now.

I mean, I think Gary just covered chapter and verse of the kinds of things that he says at FOX. He is a really, really different person.

I'd say personally, we got along fine. We disagreed about everything, unfailingly polite.

The piece of reporting that really resonated with me, based on long ago experience with him was trashing management. He is a guy who does not like management. He does not like being bossed or edited or corrected or supervised, and he certainly made comments.


He didn't like much the management when he was here at CNN and I haven't talked to him, of course in years, but I suspect he's not -- that that reporting is probably very accurate that he was trashing FOX executives.

COOPER: Do you have any sense of what the change was? I mean, there was a time when he was arguing, I think when early on with "The Daily Caller." There was a speech he made where he was talking about sort of trying to build like a "New York Times" for the for the right and you know, factually correct. And audience members started booing him. I was reading about this in the "New Yorker" a while back.

I mean, do you think he just read the tea leaves where the Republican Party was going and decided he wanted a bigger paycheck, and he jumped to the head of the pack by being the most outrageous?

BEGALA: I don't know. I don't know. Did he do it for the money, which was real spectacular money? Or did he really change and believe that?

I cannot -- I honestly have no idea.

COOPER: Because I mean, what he said he believed about Trump was clearly not what he actually believed. If you look at the text messages he was sending. He just did a fawning interview with Donald Trump, a man he clearly, is still pretending he likes because it's like a lot of these guys who -- you know, there were a number of television and radio people who were never Trumpers, and, you know, supported Ted Cruz and others and then finally saw the writing on the wall and that suddenly had to come to, you know, come to MAGA movement.

BEGALA: I think like a lot of conservatives, he backed into it. I think he understood Trump was appalling to his own sense of values, but Trump had all the right enemies, I think for Tucker, right.

Tucker was not pro-Trump at first, he was anti-Trump. And so it was very easy for him to say, well, I can't stand Nancy Pelosi or I can't stand Hillary Clinton. I can't stand the media. So they opposed Trump, and so I'm going to attack them.

But he clearly did have a, Tucker, would have used the word throne sniffing interview with Mr. Trump the other day, that was a phrase Tucker used to like to use when others gave fawning interviews to Democrats.

COOPER: Do the remaining hosts at FOX, whoever replaces Tucker Carlson, is there any -- there is no incentive to tone down their own rhetoric is there? BEGALA: No, they're not going to change. I think right-wing media in

the last 25 years has had been all about the Overton window. Right?

What was unacceptable 20 years ago, Tucker didn't say any of those things when I worked with him at "Crossfire" is now mainstream conservative media and it's only going to get more.

Here is -- okay, you know what I'd like to see, here's how we'll know that FOX has changed. They won't do it. FOX has changed if they replace Tucker with an undocumented Mexican immigrant that would actually truly be a great replacement.

COOPER: I can't imagine that Maria Bartiromo is sleeping well tonight. I mean, if you're willing to let go of Tucker Carlson with his ratings, why wouldn't they jettison her?

BEGALA: Well, that's a good point. They have taught everybody that you can fire your biggest star and do fine. They fired Bill O'Reilly.

COOPER: Yes, they fired Bill O'Reilly.

BEGALA: They fired Glenn Beck. Right. And in fact, Tucker got his job because they fired O'Reilly and, you know, it just keeps rolling on, but what it doesn't do it FOX is moderate. It's not like they're pivoting towards the truth. Right?

We know from the Dominion lawsuit that many of them knew they were lying and didn't care. So, I mean, I'm not expecting any change at FOX News. I'll be very surprised if there's any moderation there.

COOPER: Yes, Paul Begala, I appreciate it. Thanks so much.

There was also news in the media today that hit close to home. "CNN This Morning, co-anchor, Don Lemon is no longer with this network.

CNN CEO and Chairman Chris Licht made the announcement in an e-mail to staff earlier today saying in part: "CNN and Don have parted ways. Don will forever be a part of the CNN family, and we thank him for his contributions over the past 17 years. We wish him well and we will be cheering him on in his future endeavors."

Still to come tonight, ahead of President Biden's expected announcement tomorrow, it looks very possible that the 2024 election might be a rematch between him and former President Trump.

So, how do Americans feel about that? Our Harry Enten looks at the numbers in a moment.

Also, Governor Ron DeSantis goes overseas, still cannot escape questions about his polling.


REPORTER: Governor, polls show you falling behind Trump. Any thoughts on that?

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I'm not -- I'm not a candidate. So we'll see if and when that changes.




COOPER: We are a day ahead of President Biden's expected announcement that he will run for a second term. There is new polling out tonight about how Americans feel about a possible rematch between him and the former President as well as how the former President is faring against his closest challenger for the Republican nomination, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

I am joined now by our senior data reporter, Harry Enten.

So what do the numbers say?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: All right, so you know, if Joe Biden was facing off a nameless Republican, a generic Republican, a Republican that doesn't exist, he would be down by six points.

If he was facing off against Ron DeSantis, who is mostly unknown nationally, not too hard feelings about him. He'd be down by three points. But if you face him off against the former President, Donald Trump, all of a sudden Joe Biden is up by three points.

So if I'm in the White House right now, I'm hoping and praying that Donald Trump is the Republican nominee because by far, Joe Biden is strongest against him.

COOPER: What about favorability ratings for Biden and for Trump?

ENTEN: Yes, so you know, I'm somebody you know, who likes to go into the spreadsheets and study history. You know this.

COOPER: Sure. Everyone says that about Harry Enten.

ENTEN: That's exactly right. And so I went back and I looked, is there any case in which the two leading candidates at this point for their party's nomination had an unfavorable rating north of 50 percent at this particular point? This is the first time that is ever the case. The first time ever.

People do not like either of these two gentlemen. The favorable views of both Biden and Trump are south of 40 percent, and if you look, there's nearly a third of the electorate, nearly a third, who do not have a favorable view of either of those guys.

COOPER: But if they had to pick somebody, are there numbers on who they would pick?

ENTEN: Yes. So this I think, is the key. Right?

You know, this -- I feel like having deja vu of going back to 2016 a little bit, right? There was a similar thing that was going on there where you had two very unpopular candidates by the end of the campaign, and Donald Trump won the voters who had a favorable view of neither candidate.

But look at where we are now. Those voters who have a favorable view of neither candidate favor Joe Biden by 10 points, and that is the reason he is ahead right now is because the voters who don't like either one of them prefer Joe Biden. I think that's the group we would have to pay attention to going forward. If Joe Biden continues to lead amongst that group, chances are he's going to win re-election.


COOPER: Interesting. Harry Enten, appreciate it. Thank you.

ENTEN: Thank you.

COOPER: Governor DeSantis was asked about his polling versus the former president while on a trip to Japan. This was his response.


REPORTER: Governor, polls show you falling behind Trump. Any thoughts on that?

DESANTIS: I'm not -- I'm not a candidate. So we'll see if and when that changes.


COOPER: Joined now by CNN political commentator, David urban, a one- time campaign adviser to the former president and CNN senior political analyst, Gloria Borger.

So Gloria, so many Americans say they don't want to rematch between President Biden and former President Trump, then why is it looking like the most likely scenario?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, as Harry pointed out, this wouldn't be the first time in American history that people on both sides had to hold their noses and vote for a president they really didn't love, but the system is this way.

For the Democrats, Biden did well in the midterm elections better than anyone expected, and so lots of Democrats who are thinking about running sort of backed away and he is the incumbent president, whom they believe can actually beat Donald Trump.

As for Trump, it's a little more complicated, because there is going to be primaries, and there is going to be lots of candidates, and if there are lots of candidates, that's good for Donald Trump, because he has a very loyal base of supporters.

However, if it comes down to two candidates, say DeSantis and Trump, then it's a different story.

COOPER: David, you've been enthusiastic on the air about Governor DeSantis' potential candidacy. Obviously, he is not officially running yet, he is sure speaking like a candidate, traveling like a candidate. He has been struggling against the former president. I'm wondering what you make of where he's at.

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He is not doing so well right now, Anderson.

I think that, you know, a lot of DeSantis supporters are hoping he steps up his game in a variety of different ways, and he really isn't in the race yet, you know. So we'll wait and see, like he said.

He will be concerned about it in another 30 days when he is a candidate, and is officially in. You know, I liked Harry's pointing out some of these facts. Interesting in that NBC News poll that was recently out, 70 percent of Americans said they don't want Biden to run again. That's an overwhelming number, seven in 10 Americans don't want him to run. I mean, it's incredible.

And in these head-to-head polls, I discount it a bit because, this Trump versus Biden, because just like Harvey Gant and a lot of past politicians, people aren't going to admit to pollsters, just like we saw in the 2016 campaign, people didn't admit to that they were going to vote for Trump and then they came out and, you know, Trump amazingly won somehow.

So I'd be very suspect of polls, especially if they are within the margin of error as most of these are right now.

COOPER: Yes, I mean --

URBAN: So, I think it is going to be a very interesting race.

COOPER: We've certainly all learned to be suspect to polls. I feel like we learn this every cycle.

BORGER: Every cycle.

COOPER: And yet, we continue, but --

URBAN: By the way, yes, the midterms, right? We were waiting for the -- we all sat next to each other waiting for this giant tsunami.


BORGER: It didn't happen.

COOPER: So Gloria, I mean, Governor DeSantis said he is a no drama politician, and yet, you know, he is engaged with this battle against Disney. There is certainly a lot of drama about that.


COOPER: He's also made the case, you know, for his electability yet, he just signed a six-week abortion ban in Florida, when 55 percent of registered voters in America identify as pro-choice in the most recent Gallup polling. I mean, clearly he wants to be to the right of the former president on

this issue, to stand apart from him, but what do you make of where he's at?

BORGER: Well, I think first of all, he's been a lot of drama. When you take on Disney and you lose, that's a lot of drama and it gives your opponents an opportunity to say, well, if he can't take on Disney in Florida, what's he going to do, you know, in Ukraine? What's he going to do with Putin?

He is an inexperienced national candidate, and so people who like him now might not stay with him. People are starting to raise questions about him.

And so, you know, I think that this short-term abortion ban, the six- week abortion ban is not going to help him at all with suburban women voters.

So you run to the right of Trump to win a primary, but then you have to tack back if you actually get nominated and have to win the election, and I don't think suburban women voters are going to forget the abortion ban in Florida.

COOPER: David, as you know, the Fulton County, Georgia DA said that late today, she is coming out sometime this summer, whether she'll charge the former president in connection with the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. There's that, I mean, which could obviously be messy. The first Republican primary debate is set for this August.

URBAN: Yes, Anderson, you know, we sat there, I sat next to you when you announced it, you know, 1:24 PM, former president is in custody. Right? That was a pretty historic moment. And the president's poll numbers went up.

So I don't expect that what the Fulton County DA does or special counsel here may or may not do is going to impact President Trump's numbers one bit. I just don't see it happening.

I think he went through two impeachments and survived and his numbers continue to remain robust, so I think it'll be interesting to see what happens but I don't think would have an impact amongst you know the very core Trump voters.


COOPER: Yes, David Urban --

BORGER: Well, let me -- I just want to say people who are worried about Trump, it's not going to convince them to vote for him. He's not going to get any more voters because he's been indicted.

URBAN: No, no, he's not gaining -- he is not going to gain any numbers, correct.

BORGER: Right, so that's what he needs.

URBAN: But he is not going to lose any.

BORGER: That's what he needs now. He needs more.

COOPER: David Urban, Gloria Borger, appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up next, we take you to the capital of Sudan under attack. Heavy bombardment between warring military groups in Khartoum. This girl was pulled from the rubble. We will also have the latest in evacuation of Americans. What the US says both sides in the battle have now agreed to do next.


COOPER: Tonight, we have new video to show you just how dangerous the fighting between the two military leaders in Sudan has become.

Residents in the capital, Khartoum tell CNN, a girl was pulled out alive from rubble after an airstrike today. You see it there.

She reportedly was one of five civilians injured in this one strike. At least 50 people were injured today in shelling in the capital according to Sunni's Doctors Trade Union.

So far, according to the World Health Organization, more than 400 people have been killed in the war and more than 3,500 others injured.

As of right now, we're told the ceasefire has been called. US Secretary of State Antony Blinken says the agreement for a three-day ceasefire came about after what he described as intense negotiation between the Sudanese Armed Forces or SAF and the paramilitary group, the Rapid Support Forces or RSF.

Food and medical supplies are running low in the capital. The hope is that deliveries can be made during the lull in fighting.

Secretary Blinken also says the ceasefire may help dozens of Americans who want to leave the country. All U.S. government employees were evacuated from the Embassy in Khartoum in a US military operation over the weekend.

CNN's Sam Kiley has more.



SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Relief for the few evacuated to safety, misery for the many left behind. A multinational rescue effort involving Special Forces from across the world is underway with a focus on rescue diplomats and their families from the horror of Sudan's new civil war.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF THE STATE: My first priority is the safety of our people. And I determined that the deteriorating security conditions in Khartoum posed an unacceptable risk to keeping our team there at this time. KILEY (voice-over): But an estimated 16,000 Americans, thousands of other foreigners, and, of course, countless Sudanese remain. They're engulfed in mayhem amid growing violence.

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: But quite frankly, the situation is not conducive and not safe to try to conduct some kind of a larger military evacuation of American citizens.

KILEY (voice-over): France has evacuated around 500 people, the U.S. less than 100.

(on-camera): So you got WFP, MSF --


KILEY (on-camera): ICRC.

(voice-over): Rescue missions use this modest airport as a military hub.

(on-camera): Do you feel that you're at the kind of center of a storm here?

ALI ABDOU: Exactly. Yes, exactly. And we are proud of this because we -- for the size of our airports, we can manage all the Western countries, all the Asian countries, that African countries. Djibouti became the center of this world.

KILEY (voice-over): A mass evacuation by air of foreigners from Sudan, like Muna Daoud's parents, would be a gigantic operation of the scene in Kabul. But it's an unlikely prospect.

MUNA DAOUD, PARENTS STRANDED IN SUDAN: I wrote a letter to the White House. I don't know what more we can do, because we simply just want to get them out. And it seems like there's simply no communication, no care whatsoever given to anybody, any American Sudanese citizens currently in Sudan.

KILEY (voice-over): With prisons emptying and violence spreading, there's no immediate prospect of rescue, much less of peace.


COOPER: And Sam Kylie joins me now. What are you learning about the ceasefire?

KILEY: Well, Anderson, I suppose it does raise the dim prospect, I think, of some kind of longer term peace that is partly, I think, the reason why the two sides have agreed to this 72-hour peace -- ceasefire. It's about a little over an hour old in Khartoum now. It is very, very early in the small hours of the morning, so one would not expect a great deal of violence to be underway.

So it would appear to be holding at least until dawn. Dawn will be the test, really, of whether or not there is something real behind this ceasefire. Remember, Anderson, there was supposed to be a ceasefire at the end of Eid at the weekend, but -- and there was some slight return to normality in one or two pockets of Khartoum and elsewhere in the country.

But essentially that series of evacuations that were pioneered by the United States with that daring raid effectively on Khartoum with three Chinook helicopters, was conducted in the teeth of ongoing combat when there was supposed to be a ceasefire. So there won't be a great deal of hope set by it yet in Khartoum, but if it lasts for three days, it will be an opportunity to start getting more people out of the country and over land.

COOPER: Yes, which is --

KILEY: A long term, though, peace -- that is the hope but it's not really likely, I don't think, Anderson.

COOPER: Sam Kiley, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining me now is John Limbert, Former Charge D'Affaires at at the U.S. Embassy in Sudan, also former Ambassador of the Islamic Republic of Mauritania. He was also one of 52 Americans held hostage by Iran for 444 days from 1979 to 1981 after the seizure of the U.S. embassy in Tehran.

Ambassador, thank you for being with us.


COOPER: We've been seeing Americans trying to get out. We saw diplomatic personnel evacuated from Sudan. How difficult is it in a situation like this to get American citizens out?

LIMBERT: It's very difficult. Very difficult to get anybody out when you have essentially three ways of getting out. You can go out by road, which was not possible. You can go out through the airport, which is also not possible. So then you have to do this very difficult effort of bringing in helicopters at night, 800 miles -- having to fly 800 miles and refuel on the way.

I mean, we know how dangerous and difficult that is. And I salute both our military colleagues and our colleagues at the embassy and State Department who had to coordinate this.

COOPER: There are foreign nationals from a number of many different countries, obviously, working in Khartoum. I was listening to, I think, it was a BBC interview over the weekend on the radio with a British citizen who was leaving with others that their employer had actually organized the buses to get them out.


When an embassy itself is shutting down, there's only so much embassy personnel can do for Americans who are also in that city, I would imagine.

LIMBERT: Well, when you're chief of mission, you're responsible for all Americans, the safety of all Americans in the country. But as you said, if we're reduced to taking people out by helicopters and there are 16,000 American citizens in Sudan, it's not going to happen.

COOPER: It's not possible.

LIMBERT: No, but you do what you can. I mean, for example, maybe the ceasefire will allow then some more people to get out either by airport, by -- through the airport or by convoy.

COOPER: Do you think a lot of lessons were learned in the wake of what happened to you in Tehran, the atrocities?

LIMBERT: Well, I hope they were, Anderson. But the thing is, these things hit you when you don't expect them. You, I mean, you prepare and you plan. But something like what happened in Sudan, people didn't predict --


LIMBERT: -- what happened to poor -- our Ambassador Stevens in Benghazi. People didn't predict it.


LIMBERT: What happened in Tehran should have been predicted. We were left in place. We should have been evacuated and we were not. But it's a last ditch thing. We hate to do it.


LIMBERT: Because as diplomats, we're on the ground.


LIMBERT: That's what we do.

COOPER: Ambassador, it's really a pleasure to have you on. Thank you, sir.

LIMBERT: Thank you. My pleasure.

COOPER: Two more shootings impacting young people in the United States. One at a college in Oklahoma, the other at an after prom party in Texas.

Up next, I'll speak with Tennessee State Representative Justin Jones, who was expelled and reappointed to the Tennessee House after protesting gun violence. He, along with his other colleagues that faced expulsion, met with the President today to discuss gun control. More ahead.



COOPER: Tonight, a suspect is in custody and one person is dead after shooting at Rose State College in Oklahoma. According to the Midwest City Police Chief, the suspect and victim were acquainted through what the chief described as a domestic situation. The school lifted its lockdown, but canceled all classes and activities for the day.

Meanwhile, in Texas, at least nine teens were injured over the weekend after shots were fired at an after prom party. Authorities have not yet identified a motive, but say they are interviewing several witnesses and people of interest. Police also say a second shooting less than 20 minutes away from the party, may be connected.

This all comes as the three Tennessee lawmakers who faced expulsion over their protests advocating for gun control, met with President Biden at the White House today. State Representative Jones and Pearson were expelled and later sent back to the Tennessee House on an interim basis after local boards and their constituencies voted to reappoint them.

The motion to expel Johnson failed, as you know, by one vote. State Representative Justin Jones joins me now. Good to have you back. Were you satisfied with your meeting with President Biden, because you previously said you'd be asking him to declare a public health emergency on gun violence?

STATE REP. JUSTIN JONES (D), TENNESSEE: Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me, Anderson. And we talked about many things in our meeting. It was grateful for the opportunity to talk about this continued movement for common sense gun laws that's really taking hold of the nation right now.

We talked about how it's necessary to lift this up as a moral issue and to do things that are outside of the ordinary to make sure that we can get common sense gun laws passed and continue that movement forward and break the partisan divides around this issue because the vast majority of Americans do support common sense gun laws.

COOPER: What was it like sitting in the Oval Office? I mean, I -- is this your first time in the Oval Office? It's always, you know, a first time is kind of interesting. I'm curious to know what it was like.

JONES: Yes, I mean, it definitely was surreal. I'm 27 and, you know, you see pictures, but what we saw were the bust of different movement leaders. We saw a bust of Cesar Chavez, of Dr. King, of Rosa Parks, of those who have led movements to transform our nation. And we're in another moment like that where we know, and I talked to the President about how this is not a moment and it is a movement.

And so we're tapping into that tradition. And to see that as what the, you know, what it was on display in the Oval Office was a reminder that our work continues to push this nation forward and to protect our kids and not guns.

COOPER: As you know, the President's called on Congress to pass an assault type weapons ban, universal background checks. Given the split partisan control of the chambers, to say nothing in the Senate filibuster rule, those kind of measures don't have any realistic chance of passing right now, at the very least. Do you think you have any chance on the state level?

JONES: I am confident that Tennessee is going to set a model for the nation. We have an NRA endorsed governor calling a special session for common sense gun laws because of public pressure, because of the movement led by thousands of students and community members. You know, we lifted up -- I was one of the first lawmakers to call for a special session, and we're continuing that push.

And so we know that this is something that the vast majority of people in our state support Republicans, Independents, and Democrats. And so it's going to take political courage from my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to put the lives of our children over the contributions of the NRA and Tennessee Farms Association.

So I'm hopeful that movement will change political priorities and political possibilities and that we will pass laws in the south as we have this reconstruction, as we have this multiracial coalition coming together to move our state forward and really transform the south and in so doing, the nation.

COOPER: You know, there's also been a spate of shootings around the country that -- which self defense has been invoked. Ralph Yarl in Kansas City, Kaylin Gillis in upstate New York shot because Ralph Yarl knocked on the wrong door to pick up his siblings. You know, the other young woman shot in a car turning into the wrong driveway. What do those tragedies say about what certain people perceive as threats and think they're entitled to do?

JONES: I mean, it talks about our culture, a culture of violence, a culture of what we have to consistently live with anxiety and fear for our children and for our lives. And so, you know, when I talked to the President today, I talked about a story from Exodus where Moses was crossing, you know, the Red Sea, and behind him was Pharaoh's army, and in front of him was the Red Sea.

And behind us are all these special interests trying to stop us from passing common sense gun laws. And in front of us, the Red Sea, it's as an action. It's this type of political environment that says it's not possible to pass common sense gun laws. But if we're going to protect our children, young people like Ralph, we're going to have to use what's in our hand, and that is, you know, to take whatever extraordinary actions we can take to get common sense gun laws lifted.

And that's one thing that I left the meeting talking about, was that this is a moral issue. It transcends partisan politics. It's about protecting the lives of our kids. And that's what we're saying. This should not be a political issue. It is a moral issue.


We hope that our colleagues on the other side of the aisle will continue to stand, you know, not continually, but will listen to us and stand with the people of their district who are calling on common sense gun laws because the situation that happened with Ralph should have never happened and that we have the power to stop that from happening for other children in our community and in our nation.

COOPER: You talked about your governor, Bill Lee, calling the special legislative session on public safety. He's also calling for what he calls a temporary mental health orders of protection to prevent dangerous people from having guns. He's not using the term red flag law, which he says is a, quote, toxic political label. How tough is it going to be to try to build the kind of bipartisan support needed to pass those new laws? I know you say you're optimistic about Tennessee's kind of setting the tempo.

JONES: I mean, its movement that got us to this point. The governor would not be calling the special session if he did not feel the pressure and he is not calling the special session because he saw the light, but he felt the fire and the pressure of a movement. And that same movement is going to, I believe, is going to force this issue to be addressed.

I know between now and then we're going to be traveling to these counties of my Republican colleagues and talking to the people in our districts and lifting up the issue so that we can take this seriously and get action on it. I think that the governor is going to continue to hear from the voices of people in our community and nationally had country music singers and musicians going to his office asking him to act.

You had mothers from Covenant Elementary asking him to act. You had students who do active shooter jokes asking him to act. And so it was the people lifting up this issue and elevating it that's going to get action. And so I hope that we continue to show the nation that if we can are successful in passing common sense gun laws in a state like Tennessee, it will give us hope in our nation.

And so that's why this is so significant for what's going on nationwide, is that we are, once again, in a state that has an NRA endorsed governor calling a special session around guns and passing some type of, you know, regulation of this proliferation guns in our community because of movement that is multiracial, multigenerational and that's rooted in this moral conversation that I really believe is going to be transformational.

And it's going to be these young people who've led these protests, you know, this Gen Z that's really going to be a force, that is going to force a reckoning in our state. And that's what gives me hope, Anderson.


Representative Jones, I really appreciate you being on again. Thank you.

JONES: Thank you.

COOPER: Programming note tonight on CNN Primetime, Michael Smerconish speaks to one of the witnesses who was set to testify in the Fox- Dominion trial about today's firing of Tucker Carlson. What he was said to reveal on the stand, that's at the top of the hour.

Still ahead for us, the officer who fired the fatal shot that killed Breonna Taylor in a botched raid in 2020 now has a new job with a new police department. We have details on that next.



COOPER: Tonight, we've learned that one of the Louisville Metro police officers involved in the 2020 shooting of Breonna Taylor, who is now working for a nearby sheriff's office. According to the Kentucky Attorney General, Detective Myles Cosgrove fired the shot that killed Breonna Taylor. You may remember that Taylor was killed during a botched police raid after officers executed a warrant at her apartment.

The warrant was linked to Taylor's ex-boyfriend, a convicted felon suspected of supplying a local drug house. However, no drugs were found in the apartment, and Taylor's family and their attorneys have maintained she was not involved in her ex boyfriend's alleged drug deals. Her death partially sparked nationwide protests in 2020, calling for changes in policing policy and laws.

CNN's Jason Carroll now with the story of how the man who killed Taylor became a sheriff's deputy.


ALL: Breonna Taylor.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Breonna Taylor's mother had one word to describe how she felt after learning former Louisville Metro Police Officer Myles Cosgrove had been rehired by another department.

TAMIKA PALMER, BREONNA TAYLOR'S MOTHER: Anger, to think that another department would even want this guy to be a part of any department for that matter just angers me.

CARROLL (voice-over): According to a CNN affiliate, the Carroll County Sheriff's Department cited Cosgrove's experience as the reason behind the hire. His attorney confirmed the former LMPD officer recently started with the Sheriff's Department.

SCOTT MILLER, LAWYER FOR MYLES COSGROVE: On behalf of Myles and myself, we don't want anything to take away or diminish the value of the tragedy that happened to Breonna Taylor and her family. We're not minimizing that at all. But he definitely has had a hard road to go and getting back to crime to figure out a way to support his family in the future.

CARROLL (voice-over): Cosgrove was one of three LMPD officers who fired their weapons during a raid on Breonna Taylor's apartment the night of March 13, 2020. Cosgrove fired more than a dozen times, including the fatal bullet that killed Taylor. The Louisville Metro Police Department fired him in January of 2021 for failing to use his body camera and violating the department's use of force rules.

MYLES COSGROVE, FORMER LOUISVILLE METRO POLICE DETECTIVE: I started shooting as soon as I saw the flash, almost simultaneously.

CARROLL (voice-over): During a department hearing to appeal his firing, Cosgrove expressed remorse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret that Breonna Taylor ended up being shot and killed?

COSGROVE: Of course. Of course, I do. It's horrible.

CARROLL (voice-over): The department's merit board upheld his dismissal. Despite that, the Carroll County Sheriff's Department decided to hire Cosgrove. His attorney notes four other officers in the raid faced federal charges in connection with that raid, three accused of lying in order to obtain a search warrant.

One former LMPD officer, Kelly Goodlett, admitted in federal court that she and another officer had falsified information in the warrant that was used to justify the raid on Taylor's apartment. U.S. Attorney Merrick Garland says had it not been for that faulty warrant, Taylor would be alive today.

Cosgrove's attorney reminded those who oppose his client being hired that he has not been charged with any crime.

MILLER: There was a grand jury that met state of Kentucky that cleared him of any wrongdoing. A federal grand jury was convened and also determined that there were other people who warranted being charged criminally, but not Myles.


PALMER: It's this good old boy system, like -- so I'm not surprised at all.

CARROLL (voice-over): Those seeking justice for Breonna Taylor say Cosgrove getting a badge back is a danger to the new community he is serving.

LONITA BAKER, ATTORNEY FOR BREONNA TAYLOR'S FAMILY: People of Carroll County should be very afraid and should not let this hire stand.

PALMER: You don't know what to trust anymore or who to trust. It's insane to me.


CARROLL: Well, the mayor of Carrollton there in Carroll County has weighed in on this. He says he had no idea Cosgrove had been hired until this just passed this past Thursday. He also went on to say, "This was a decision made solely by the Carroll County Sheriff Ryan Gosser and had absolutely nothing to do with the city. The city was not consulted, nor were we required to be consulted. The sheriff is an elected position and has the authority to make his or her own personal decisions."

He also went on to say that Cosgrove actually applied for a job with the city of Carrollton, but he says he was not chosen for employment.

COOPER: All right, Jason Carroll, appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Imagine seeing flames out the window of your airplane. This is one of two incidents recently in American Airlines planes. Details of it next.


COOPER: Two incidents aboard different American Airlines planes frightened passengers on Sunday. Bird strike led to engine failure and flames being spotted by passengers and crew. The pilot issued a mayday call safely returned to the airport in Columbus, Ohio. The flames from the engine were even spotted by a jogger on the ground who took this video.

Last Thursday, flames were spotted on another American flight that never took off from Charlotte, North Carolina. The FAA is investigating both incidents.

That's it for us. The news continues. I want to hand it over to "CNN Primetime" with Michael Smerconish.