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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

CNN Speaks With Documentarian Who Has Made Five Films With King Charles III; Ahead Of The End Of Title 42, El Paso, TX Struggles With Surge Of Migrants; Richard Glossip To CNN: "I Want To Continue To Fight. I Want To Continue To Get My Message Out To People." Aired 9- 10p ET

Aired May 05, 2023 - 21:00   ET




ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Just after 2, in the morning, here in London, just hours away, from the Coronation of King Charles the Third.

You saw, in our last hour, people, from all over this country, and back across the pond, telling our Richard Quest, they are here to see history, once in a lifetime, for many, firsts in their lifetime, for some, the first coronation, in 70 years. Right now, though, hope they're finally getting some sleep. They're going to need it. They have a few hours more.

We begin this hour, with someone, who watched the last coronation, as a commoner, and at a distance, but it is a lot closer -- is a lot closer to it this time. Actress, glamour symbol, and Londoner, Joan Collins, who was part of TV's "Dynasty," in the 1980s, and who owes her title, Dame Joan, to the Monarch, being crowned, tomorrow.

It's such a pleasure to meet you, first of all. It's quite thrilling for me. I'm a huge fan.

You first met -- we have a photo of you, first meeting then-Prince Charles, in 1968, at the Odeon theatre, looks like, on a reception line. The memory that stands out to you though is in a party that Armie Hammer (ph) gave. Is that right?

DAME JOAN COLLINS, ACTRESS: Yes, shortly after he was married to Princess Diana. It was a charity, in Palm Beach. And it was enormous. There were so many people there, because they were -- Everybody wanted to meet her, and him, and everything.

And I had a little chat with Princess Diana, was very, very concerned all about the paparazzi, and asked me about, how am I going to stand this? And then, we went and sat down. And Prince Charles came up and asked me to dance, which I thought was--

COOPER: Yes. What kind of a dancer was he?

JOAN COLLINS: Excellent! Enough strong to hold her (ph). COOPER: As he should be.

JOAN COLLINS: But he was very good. And we had a little chat. And then, he wrote a book, some years later, in which he talked about this particular incident.


JOAN COLLINS: And said some very nice things about me.

COOPER: Yes, well that's good.

JOAN COLLINS: Yes. And then, a few years later, I became an ambassador, for the Prince's Trust, which I've done quite a few things for. And I met him, because he gave me my Damehood.

COOPER: You're Dame Joan Collins.

Did he -- what was that like, receiving that?

JOAN COLLINS: Oh, it was terrifying, first of all. Because, first of all, you just don't know what to wear. And then, you think, "I have to wear heels, but then I'm going to fall over," and then you had to step backwards, when you meet him.


But he's absolutely charming, beyond belief, very, very comforting, very easygoing. And he said, as he pinned it on, he said, well, "About time too." He has a wonderful voice.


JOAN COLLINS: I think he would have liked to have been an actor.

COOPER: It's interesting to meet these people, who we see from afar. My mom went to the White House, when Charles and Diana went to the White House with the Reagans.


COOPER: And there's a photo of Diana, dancing with John Travolta.


COOPER: And my mom is in the background, you can see her looking. And I remember her coming back. I was a teenager, at the time. She came back, and was just glowing, about it, and talking about what an extraordinary. And she'd met, obviously, a lot of famous people.

JOAN COLLINS: Of course.

COOPER: But there was something about them, in-person that's kind of--

JOAN COLLINS: Oh, they were magical.

COOPER: --thrilling.

JOAN COLLINS: They were fantastic. Well, can't really say this, not because it's all different. But I'm just talking about the past.


JOAN COLLINS: And when we met. And I have met Charles, I mean, I guess, a dozen times, here and there. I remember sitting next to him, at a dinner, and we had a thing called The Goons, with Peter Sellers. And he--

COOPER: I love Peter Sellers.

JOAN COLLINS: --he loved this program. It was completely crazy, crazy program. And I managed to get a DVD, and send it to him, for the boys.

COOPER: Oh, that's great.


COOPER: What are you going to be looking, at the ceremony for, tomorrow?

JOAN COLLINS: Well, first of all, I'm going to be getting up early, to watch all the people. I mean, people are going in, at 7:30. Do you know they're doing it on the road?

COOPER: You're not going to be camping out tonight, here?

JOAN COLLINS: Are you kidding? No, I'm going to be at home, watching everything, in my bed. And then, I've decorated our entire apartment, with bunting and flowers.

COOPER: Oh, really?

JOAN COLLINS: And I've done a red, white and blue arrangement, in my dining table. I've got all the plates and the mugs.


JOAN COLLINS: Yes, I do all that. It's kind of cute.

COOPER: Is it -- it's obviously it's a whole new Great Britain. Obviously, it's a whole -- it's a big change, obviously from--


COOPER: --from the Queen.


COOPER: It's a more modern monarchy.


COOPER: What do you-- JOAN COLLINS: He wants to modernize it. I think, well, if you want my opinion? I remember the Queen's. I mean, I was a kid. I was a teenager. But I remember that it was so fabulous, seeing all of those people, in their robes. There was something so glamorous and thrilling about it. And we'd never seen that before.

COOPER: It was the first time it was televised.

JOAN COLLINS: Yes. I know. And we had a television. It was about this big.

COOPER: Do you think the monarchy still matters here?

JOAN COLLINS: It matters to a lot of people. It matters to me. It's something that I grew up with. I've always loved it.

I absolutely adored the Queen, from the time, I was a little girl, and she got married to Prince Philip. And that was the most exciting romantic thing that ever happened in England. And I think that there is still a great amount of people that do believe in the Monarchy.

Unfortunately, there's a few quite a lot that don't. And I can understand it in a way because this country is going through a bit of a crisis, a cost of living crisis.


JOAN COLLINS: We have lots of strikes.


JOAN COLLINS: I mean we have so many strikes. And I think a lot of people are very dissatisfied. And they say, "Oh, well, it's costing so much, the coronation." But it's bringing in so many people, so many Americans. I mean, we were out today. And everywhere you go?


JOAN COLLINS: There's different colored -- different kind of voices.


JOAN COLLINS: And they're--

COOPER: Actually a big -- there's great excitement, here, for many people--

JOAN COLLINS: Oh, it's hugely.

COOPER: --from all over.

JOAN COLLINS: Yes. All of my friends, and really excited.


JOAN COLLINS: Yes. We're doing a big spread, coronation chicken, family and friends. And we'll just watch it all day.

COOPER: What is a coronation chicken like compared to a regular chicken?

JOAN COLLINS: Oh, it's delicious. Never had a coronation chicken? Oh my god! Go to Marks & Spencers, right now, tomorrow and get them.

COOPER: I will, all right.

JOAN COLLINS: It's completely delicious. Yes.

COOPER: Well, if you have any leftovers, maybe you could send them over here. We'll all be here.


COOPER: Dame Joan Collins, thank you. It's really such a pleasure.

JOAN COLLINS: Thank you, Anderson, great.

COOPER: Lovely.

JOAN COLLINS: Nice to see.

COOPER: It probably sold out, the coronation chickens, already!

Tomorrow's coronation won't just be quite literally a crowning achievement, for Elizabeth's second -- eldest son. It will also mark a turning point, for his eldest son, and everyone else, in the Royal Family, who may one day be king or queen.

Our Randi Kaye, tonight, takes a closer look.



RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Get in line, if you want to be head of the British monarchy! The list of future heirs, to the throne, includes nearly two dozen members, of the Royal Family.

William, the Prince of Wales, is the new heir apparent. He's the eldest son, of King Charles, and the late Princess Diana.


KAYE (voice-over): In 2011, William married Kate Middleton, now the Princess of Wales. They live in a cottage, on the grounds of Windsor Castle, with their three children, who are next in line, behind William.


Their eldest, Prince George of Wales, is now almost 10-years-old, and second in line to the throne. Princess Charlotte, William and Kate's only daughter, would come after her big brother. Then, Prince Louie of Wales, their youngest.

Fifth in line to the throne, Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex. He's the younger son, of King Charles and Diana, and Williams' only sibling.


KAYE (voice-over): Harry married Meghan Markle, in 2018, after they met on a blind date. They have two children, and live in California.

Their son, Prince Archie, is in line, after his father. His sister, Princess Lilibet would be next. Lilibet is seventh in line to the throne. As the Queen's 11th great grandchild, she is the most senior royal, in the line of succession, to have been born overseas, in California.

King Charles' brother, Prince Andrew, is eighth in line, despite being stripped of his royal title. Andrew stepped away from royal duties, in 2019, over his ties, to disgraced financier, Jeffrey Epstein, who had pleaded guilty, to a sex crime, involving a minor.

Prince Andrew had married Sarah Ferguson, in 1986, and had two daughters, before divorcing, a decade later.

Princess Beatrice, now 34, and ninth in line, after her father, gave birth to daughter, Sienna Elizabeth Mapelli Mozzi, in 2021, who is now 10th in line, to the throne.

That makes Princess Eugenie, Beatrice's sister, a 11th. Her son, August Philip Hawke, is 12th.

Prince Edward, the youngest child of Queen Elizabeth, and Prince Philip, is 13th, in the line of succession. Edward's official title is The Earl of Wessex. His two children, James Viscount Severn, and his older sister, Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, are in line, behind their father.

Princess Anne, who was actually the second child, born to the Queen and Prince Philip, falls last, behind her three brothers, and their children.

That's because the 1701 Act of Settlement, which lays down the rules of succession, allowed for younger sons, to move ahead, of older daughters, in line. The 2013 Succession to the Crown Act changed that, but only applies to those born, after October 28, 2011. That leaves Princess Anne, 16th in line, to the throne.

Princess Anne has two children, Peter Phillips, and Zara Phillips. Anne declined to give them royal titles, but are still in the order of succession.

Peter is 17th in line, and his two daughters are 18th and 19th.

Zara, Princess Anne's daughter, falls behind her brother and his kids. Her three children round out the Royal Family line of succession, bringing the grand total to 23. Randi Kaye, CNN.


COOPER: With me here is documentary filmmaker, John Bridcut, Writer and Director of "Prince, Son and Heir: Charles at 70."

Thanks so much for being with us.


COOPER: We've spoken once before.

BRIDCUT: Right, right.

COOPER: Well, you've worked, with Prince Charles, on a number of films and projects. What is it -- what is it like, to collaborate with him, to work with him?

BRIDCUT: He's very easy to work with, actually. People are rather surprised by that. But he's very considerate. He understands the sort of the disciplines of filmmaking, and actually is really intrigued by them. He talks to my cameraman and sound recorders. He talks to them, about the technical side, about how they achieve things.

And I think he's, you know, I found him really always ready. I mean, he probably gets a bit fed up. He did say, once, "This is the third time, today, you've asked me to put a radio mic on."


BRIDCUT: "Do you think I can -- for this reception, can I just not wear it?"

I said, "Of course, that's fine."


BRIDCUT: And -- but normally, he's very good about that. He wouldn't like to put on a radio mic, in front of other people. But if there's a place, where he can do it, privately, he'll do it.

COOPER: He's, I mean, he's really thought, obviously, he's certainly had a lot of time to think about it. But he's really thought about things that are -- he's passionate about, and how to try to put them forward. I mean, he was made fun of, decades ago. He was sort of ahead of his time, on environmental issues, on climate. And a lot of people will come around to sort of ideas he had a long time ago.

BRIDCUT: Yes, he rather enjoys being able to say that.

COOPER: I'm sure he does.

BRIDCUT: And the thing is he's now got to temper that. I mean, he's -- but he is still interested. And the government, he has to do what the governments say. And the government said, "You mustn't go to Egypt for the COP26 Summit," back in October, was it just after he become king.

And so, of course, he didn't go. But he arranged the reception, at Buckingham Palace, for some of the delegates, going. So, it was the next best thing.


BRIDCUT: And it was really interesting that he thought he had a role to play there. And I think he was able to do that, without being party political, in any way.


COOPER: Do you think he is enjoying this?

BRIDCUT: Yes. I think he's -- he looks really relaxed, and--

COOPER: Because, I mean, the pressure, even though he is prepared for it his whole life, but maybe even perhaps because he's prepared for it his whole life, I would think there would be pressure.

BRIDCUT: Well, the pressure, in the first 10 days, when he was grieving, for the loss of his mother, and was going around the country, meeting, shaking hands, with the crowds, and so on.

But he's used to doing that. I mean, he's very good at working a crowd. And he listens to what people say to him, and responds. He always looks for a point of contact with them. And I think, yes, I mean, he's got a lot of people to do some of the work for him, so.

COOPER: He also has a very good sense, I think, of media. I mean, he -- I think about the first talk, public talk, he gave, after his mother's death, which was a very intimate chat, sort of, to a camera. I mean, he was remarkably good at it.

BRIDCUT: He was. It was very striking that. I think people weren't expecting it.


BRIDCUT: And it was you could see that he was very emotional. He was sort of quite tearful, really.

COOPER: Even the -- his -- I've mentioned to Joan Collins, but he's recorded the "Mind the Gap" voiceover, in the subways. And when I heard it, I just thought it was the funniest thing, because just it's one line, "Mind the Gap." But he has a certain sense of humor, in how he's delivering it, like he's aware of how absurd it is. And yet he's having -- like, the whole thing is kind of Meta and Genius, I thought.

BRIDCUT: Well, when you consider that he doesn't actually go on the subway.

COOPER: Well, I know! That was the other thing. I'm like, "Did somebody have to tell him what the gap was?" I mean, yes.

BRIDCUT: He once filmed a weather forecast. I don't know if you've seen that one.

COOPER: No, I haven't.

BRIDCUT: It was hilarious.


BRIDCUT: He went to the BBC, for some reason. And they got him to do a weather forecast.

COOPER: Right.

BRIDCUT: And he was talking -- he was talking about what it was going to be raining, over Balmoral, in Scotland. And he's, at one point, he's reading the script. And he says, "Who the hell wrote this?"

COOPER: That's all right. That's funny. What -- do you think -- do you think a lot will be -- a lot will change, in the monarchy? Or?

BRIDCUT: Yes. I mean, it's going to be the same.

COOPER: Right.

BRIDCUT: But different. I mean, that sounds stupid. But the essentials will remain the same, in terms of -- he's got a good sense of the dignity of it, and so on. And a lot of the fixed things in the calendar will remain the same.

But I think, yes, it's already begun to change. And people haven't sort of latched on to this much. But very soon after he took over, the first reception, he held, in Buckingham Palace, was something that had to be postponed, because of the Queen's death, which he was going to have anyway.

But it happened, which was the 50th anniversary of Uganda nations, coming to this country, when Idi Amin had thrown them out. And, that, you could never have conceived of that happening, at Buckingham Palace, until this moment.

COOPER: Right.

BRIDCUT: And it was -- it's quite a sort of contentious thing, in a way, because, particularly, at that time, there was a lot of debate, about immigration, and people being held, in camps, in Kent--

COOPER: Right.

BRIDCUT: --and in the County of Kent, and this sort of thing. And I think he can see ways of being involved, with contemporary issues, which aren't directly political.

COOPER: Right.

BRIDCUT: In a way, that is going to be quite different.

COOPER: Interesting. John Bridcut, it's really a pleasure, always, really, thank you.

BRIDCUT: Pleasure to meet you.

COOPER: Yes, really liked it.

BRIDCUT: And be here. Thank you.

COOPER: Next, breaking news, back home, of potentially key development, in Georgia's an investigation, of the former President's election scheme. Late word, the special prosecutor, there, now has the cooperation of some of the participants.

Also, a live report, from the southern border, as authorities, aided by active-duty troops, prepare for an expected influx of migrants.



COOPER: There's breaking news, on the Georgia investigation, into the former President's attempt, to overturn the election. According to a new court filing, at least eight of those fake electors, involved, have accepted immunity deals.

CNN's Sara Murray joins us now, with the latest.

This seems quite big, for this investigation, depending on how much information they actually have. But what more do you know?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, we learned this again, as you said, in a court filing, today that at least eight of these electors have accepted immunity deals.

Remember, a while back, District Attorney, Fani Willis, told all 16 of the Republican fake electors, in Georgia, they were targets, in her investigation. Obviously, you can imagine, that makes it hard to get information out of them. So, now she's struck immunity deals with a handful of them.

We know that there are others, who could still potentially face legal exposure. But it means that she has some time, to try to pry information, out of these folks, figure out, "Who were you working with in the State of Georgia? Who might you've been working with in the Trump campaign, or around the Trump campaign, to try to organize this fake slate of electors," and sort of build her case, Anderson.

COOPER: What does it suggest about the type of charges the former President might potentially face in Georgia?

MURRAY: Well, of course, we don't know if Donald Trump will face charges, or who else yet. But we do know the District Attorney there, has been looking at potential racketeering charges. If she goes that route? That would look at someone like former President Donald Trump, and his allies, essentially as part of this criminal enterprise.

So, you would look at how this sort of fake-electors scheme fit in with efforts to lie to lawmakers, in the State of Georgia, and fit in with efforts, like the call, to Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, to overturn the election. So, you would get this sort of comprehensive look, at how all of these schemes kind of fit together, in an effort, to overturn the 2020 election, in Georgia.

We expect her to make these charging announcements between July and September. So again, she has a little bit of time, to continue to get information, from cooperators, and sift through that as she builds toward a potential indictment.

COOPER: Yes. Sara Murray, appreciate it. Thank you.

MURRAY: Thanks.

COOPER: Next week, immigration authorities, at the U.S.-Mexican border, are bracing for a surge in crossings.

Next Thursday, Title 42 officially ends. That's the Trump era policy, kept in place, by courts, and used by the Biden administration, which allowed the government, to turn away some migrants, at the border, during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Pentagon is sending active-duty personnel, more of them, to the southern border, to free up Homeland Security agents. Encounters between undocumented immigrants and Border agents are already on the rise. It's only expected to get worse.

Border towns are already being overwhelmed, in some places, by the numbers of migrants, hoping to stay in the country.


CNN's Rosa Flores is in El Paso, Texas, to find out how people there are coping.



ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The streets, around this El Paso church, have turned into a migrant camp, where desperation looms, among thousands, who are hungry and broke.

FLORES (on camera): Have you ever seen anything like this?


FLORES (voice-over): Father Rafael Garcia runs the shelter, here, and says that the surge started, about two weeks ago, ahead of the lifting of Title 42, the rule that allows immigration agents, to return some migrants, quickly, to Mexico.

GARCIA: And this is it's an international issue. And we're just like the neck of the bottle or the funnel.

FLORES (voice-over): With Border Patrol, roaming the area, migrants, like Daniel Gomez (ph), say they feel trapped.

FLORES (on camera): Can you work?


FLORES (voice-over): Because they have no money to continue on their journey.

FLORES (on camera): The fear is that immigration can pick you up if you leave?


FLORES (voice-over): He says they have no other options, but to loiter and pray.


FLORES (voice-over): That kind residents, like this woman, who distributed 90 burritos, in minutes, will help them meet basic needs.

Others, like John Alvarez, from Venezuela?


FLORES (voice-over): Are the life of one encampment, where he set up a barber shop.

ALVAREZ: (FOREIGN LANGUAGE) $1, $2, $3, $4. $4 -- $4.

FLORES (on camera): $4 or $5?


FLORES (voice-over): And even at a few bucks a cut, he says he's earned more, in El Paso, in the last 12 days than in one month, in Venezuela.

Across the street from the church?

FLORES (on camera): How long have you lived here?


FLORES (on camera): So, about 12 years.

FLORES (voice-over): Marina Cario (ph) has been nervously watching the growing number of migrants, who are now her new neighbors.

FLORES (on camera): What are you worried about?


FLORES (on camera): She says that she's worried about security, and also about potential diseases.

FLORES (voice-over): She says her heart breaks for them that she's helped some of them with food and water, but that she too lives paycheck-to-paycheck.

Javier Garcia (ph), the manager, at a nearby hardware store?

FLORES (on camera): Do they ask you for jobs?


FLORES (voice-over): Says he has no complaints about the migrants.

FLORES (on camera): Has it impacted your business at all?

J. GARCIA (ph): No.

FLORES (voice-over): His frustration is with Texas governor, Greg Abbott, and President Joe Biden.


J. GARCIA (ph): Not even Abbott, not the federal government, is doing their job.



COOPER: And Rosa, I mean, are there other shelters there? What is -- what's the -- what happens, to these people?

FLORES: Well, the City of El Paso says that they plan to open shelters, next week. But they say they won't be able to help everyone.

Walk with me. And I'll show you.

Because, the city says that there's about 2,300 migrants, who are living in city streets. And they say that even when they open the shelters next week, they will only be able to help those immigrants, who turn themselves into immigration authorities. And that's because of the restrictions of FEMA money. That's the only thing that they can do. And so, they warn that some of these individuals will still be out in the streets.

Now, according to a survey, that was conducted, by one of the shelters, out here, they surveyed 258 migrants. And they discovered that about 40 percent of them were documented. They had turned themselves into immigration authorities. The rest had entered the country, illegally.

So, Anderson, even when those shelters are open, we're still going to see a lot of people, out on the streets.


COOPER: All right. Rosa Flores, thank you.

Coming up, two stories, involving the Supreme Court.

It weighed in today, on an Oklahoma death row inmate's plea, to reexamine his case, after the State Attorney General, said the man should never have been convicted of murder, nor sentenced to die.

Plus, another new damaging report, about Justice Clarence Thomas' wife, Ginni Thomas, and allegations of concealed payments.



COOPER: In a stunning move, today, the Supreme Court halted the execution, of Richard Glossip, while the justices considered new requests that they formally take up his case.

Glossip was convicted, in 1998, of capital murder. He was scheduled, for execution, 13 days from now. The stay comes after the Oklahoma Attorney General's office said it can no longer support the conviction, or the sentence.

Brian Todd joins us now, with the latest.

So, what are Glossip's -- and his family saying tonight?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, it was a very dramatic moment, this afternoon, when the U.S. Supreme Court halted the execution, of Richard Glossip.

He was facing what could have been the final days of his life. At the time, the stay of execution was announced, Glossip was in what he believed would be the final visit, with his wife, Lea.

Our colleagues, Brynn Gingras, and Linh Tran, have been reporting, on the Glossip case, for the past year.

Shortly after the stay of execution, Brynn Gingras, spoke to Glossip, on the phone.


RICHARD GLOSSIP, OKLAHOMA DEATH ROW INMATE: I yelled out, are you kidding, at first, and they said no, so her and I just grabbed each other. And then, yes, it was amazing to watch the expression on her face and to see how relieved she was. It was just amazing because she was really so worried and so stressed out and I'm just really grateful that we got to share it, share it all together.


GLOSSIP: You know, hopeful. The fight's still not over. I want to continue to fight. I want to continue to get my message out to people. I want people to continue to stand up because until they rule and they get it right, the fight's never done. We have to continue to fight and fight and fight, 'til we get it, 'til we accomplish what we're trying to accomplish.


TODD: Now, the stay of execution, today, comes after Richard Glossip has endured 26 years, in prison, has faced nine execution dates, and has eaten three last meals.

There have been two independent investigations, in the State of Oklahoma, where of this occurred, investigations which raised serious doubts, about his conviction.

Following the beating death, of a man, named Barry Van Treese, in 1997, Glossip, was convicted in the case. Glossip did not actually kill Van Treese. He was implicated in a murder-for-hire situation.

But there have been so many questions raised, about the poor handling of evidence, and casting serious doubt on whether Glossip got a fair trial that the State Attorney General concluded that the State could no longer stand by that murder conviction.


COOPER: And what happens next, now that the Supreme Court has granted this stay?

TODD: Well, Anderson, the hold on his execution will stay in place, until the Supreme Court justices consider Glossip's requests that they formally take up the case. The Supreme Court needs to rule on two motions, in front of it, including the State of Oklahoma's declaration that it can no longer stand by this conviction. So, he has a reprieve. We just don't know -- we do not know, for how long.

COOPER: All right, Brian Todd, appreciate it.


Another major story, involving the Court, the "Washington Post" reports that in 2012, conservative judicial activist, Leonard Leo, arranged for Ginni Thomas, the wife of Justice Clarence Thomas, to be paid tens of thousands of dollars, for consulting work.

According to documents, reviewed by the "Post," Leo toll GOP pollster, Kellyanne Conway, to bill the Judicial Education Project, which is a non-profit group he advises. Conway was to use the money, to pay Ginni Thomas, but leave Thomas' name, off the paperwork. Later that year, the non-profit filed a brief, to the High Court, in a landmark voting rights case.

This comes, on the heels of revelations that GOP megadonor, and Thomas' friend, Harlan Crow, has been paying, for luxury trips, real estate transactions. And as we learned, from ProPublica, yesterday, Crow paid the tuition, for Thomas' grandnephew.

Want to get some perspective, now, from CNN Senior Supreme Court Analyst, Joan Biskupic. Joan, how big a deal, do you think, this "Washington Post" report, about payments to Ginni Thomas is, particularly in the wake of those recent reports, about her husband's financial history, with conservative billionaire, Harlan Crow? I mean, did you have any idea that both of them were receiving money, like this, from activists and donors?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Well, first of all, good evening, Anderson.

And I'll tell you, my first reaction was this is yet one more piece that shows how intertwined wealthy money interests are with these Supreme Court justices. And it's at a time, when members of Congress, watchdog groups, and the media have been questioning why the justices don't have a formal code of ethics.

And this situation, involving Ginni, it already gets plenty of attention. But you're right to pair it with what we just learned about, a little bit earlier, from ProPublica reports, about Justice Thomas, getting lavish travel, and lodging, vacations, from Republican billionaire, Harlan Crow.

And then what also emerged this week is that Harlan Crow had also helped pay for the private education of a grandnephew, who had been living with Justice Thomas, and his wife, Ginni.

So, again, it's just the idea of how much money is flowing to Justice Thomas. And why do these influential benefactors, believe they can get something from him? Or is it purely out of friendship, as they all insist? But it does raise the question of how it might affect cases, Anderson.

COOPER: Right. Friendship is one thing. But you would think Supreme Court justices wouldn't need a yearly spreadsheet reminder, or a computer program, with ethics rules on it, for them to click off on, to prove that they understand ethics. I mean, you would think of all people that Supreme Court justices would have the highest ethical standards, without being forced to, or prodded to, or having to be reminded of?

According to the "Washington Post," while arranging this $25,000 payment, Leonard Leo instructed to Kellyanne Conway, quote, "No mention of Ginni," of course, meaning Ginni Thomas. Leo said they were just protecting the privacy of Thomas and Mrs. Thomas.

Conway condemned the "Washington Post" for her part.

I mean, this doesn't make any sense to me.

BISKUPIC: Well, you know what? Two things, on that, Anderson.

You're exactly right, that the highest court in the land should have equally high standards for ethics. I don't see how that is something that anybody would challenge and question.

And then, as to Leonard Leo? Let's remind our audience who this is. He is a man who is a very dear friend of Justice Thomas. But he's also someone, who has had such a strong hand, in reshaping the federal bench.

He has -- he is a man, with a very strong agenda, to make the courts much more conservative. He was very involved, with the appointment, of all three of Donald Trump's choices, for the Supreme Court. And frankly, he has had a hand, in every Republican appointee, who is now sitting, on that Supreme Court, because of his role, with the Federalist Society, and just being so muddied -- moneyed, and networked in, with conservative backers.

COOPER: It's remarkable.

Joan Biskupic, I appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

BISKUPIC: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: Next, back to events, tomorrow, specifically, what the King and Queen will be writing in, and why traveling coach, as in these coaches, still adds up to Royal treatment. More ahead.



COOPER: Just hours, from now, the coronation of King Charles the Third will be underway.

But before the world witnesses his crowning, the Royal Family will have to get to Westminster Abbey. That's where the king's carriages come in.

CNN Royal Correspondent, Max Foster, has details.


MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Electric windows, air conditioning and hydraulic suspension. Despite its traditional appearance, the Diamond Jubilee State Coach has all the modern comforts.

It's been out on the streets, as staff practice transporting the King, to the Abbey, without a hiccup.

FOSTER (on camera): On the way, back from the Abbey, to Buckingham Palace, a much bigger procession. And this will be the centerpiece, the Gold State Coach. It's enormous. It weighs four tons. And it's the first time that Charles would have traveled in it, because only the Monarch is allowed inside.

FOSTER (voice-over): The Gold State Coach is a less comfortable ride than its modern counterpart. It's been used in every coronation, since 1831. Covered in gold leaf, it takes eight horses, to pull it, and can only move at a walking pace.

Martin Oates is in charge of the brake, the fourth generation of men, in his family, to work, with the Royal Carriage.

MARTIN OATES, SENIOR CARRIAGE RESTORER, ROYAL MEWS: When you're following it, you can hear it creaking, so it sounds like an old galleon going along. It's not quite a washing machine, but it does tend to, where other vehicles just go from back to front, this is moving from side to side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The spirit of a king.

FOSTER (voice-over): Oates' grandfather, and great grandfather (inaudible) Queen Elizabeth's coronation.

Like then, Charles' procession, back to the palace, will involve a huge military parade, of around 4,000 troops.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no, we've even got it the right way around. This is the--


FOSTER (voice-over): Some royal fans have been camping out, along the 1.3-mile route, to secure their front-row spot, even traveling from the U.S.

DONNA WERNER, ROYAL SUPER FAN: I'm just happy to be here and be part of history. I mean this hasn't happened in 70 years.

FOSTER (voice-over): All hoping to catch a glimpse of the newly- crowned King and Queen.



COOPER: And Max foster joins us now.

It's incredible that there have been four generations, in that man's family, of caring for the coach.

FOSTER: Dedicated to that coach.

It's in this one stable. It doesn't come out. Only the Monarch can ride in it. You have to take out part of the wall, and the whole door, to get it out.

COOPER: There to remove the--


COOPER: --them removing the wall of the stable?

FOSTER: It takes 20 people, to pull it out.

And there's, you know, they worry hugely, when they bring it out, because it just doesn't go out. It's absolutely priceless. And they had to change the route. So, about five years ago, the gentleman that you saw there, changed the straps that it hangs on.


FOSTER: And it was slightly higher, than it was previously. And they also resurfaced a bit of road, so they couldn't get it through that arch, which is why it's going to come--


FOSTER: --down here, towards Admiralty Arch, tomorrow. I know all these facts.


FOSTER: I mean?

COOPER: Well, I'm glad you know these facts, because we're on for seven hours, you know?

FOSTER: Yes. And you're going to have every single moment of what I know about that. I could talk to you half an hour about that.


FOSTER: And how the straps. So, what happens is it goes forward, as you know.

COOPER: Oh, please, tell us about the straps.

FOSTER: Yes. I know you want to know, and I have to get it out. I've done this research, for you, Anderson.

It goes forward and back. But it also goes sideways.


FOSTER: So, it ends up skirting around like this. So you end up feeling sick.

COOPER: Wow! Really?

FOSTER: Which is why they're using it on the way back.

COOPER: Which is why they're only using it, once every several years?

FOSTER: Yes. Yes. Then go into the palace, and have a moment, and then maybe come out on the balcony.

COOPER: It's incredible.



COOPER: I mean, there's so -- but there are so many details, like that that we are going to see that have been done through the ages, it's. FOSTER: Yes. I mean, the amount of detail that we've been given, and every single moment--

COOPER: And there's--

FOSTER: --which is what--

COOPER: I'm sure there's a reason behind everything.

FOSTER: Yes. And there's a reason for changing things as well. But then, so many different agencies are involved in everything. It's quite incredible. I think it'll be amazing to see it actually work.


FOSTER: Just, the complication involved is extraordinary.

COOPER: Yes, looking forward to it. Max Foster, thanks so much.

We'll be back.

Still to come, a fascinating new book that traces the path of right- wing extremism, from Timothy McVeigh, all the way to the violence of January 6. Author, Jeffrey Toobin, joins me next, with that.



COOPER: A new book is diving into the disturbing rise, of right-wing extremism, and draws a line, from the January 6 insurrection, back to the days of Timothy McVeigh. McVeigh, as you know, was the domestic terrorist, who perpetrated the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.

The book is based on new interviews, with former President, Bill Clinton, and Attorney General, Merrick Garland, as well as a trove of documents, donated to a library, in Texas, by McVeigh's defense attorney, containing not just all of his correspondence, with his own attorneys, but also hundreds of FBI interviews, and summaries, of grand jury testimony, turned over, by the prosecution, in discovery.

The book, written by Jeffrey Toobin, is called "Homegrown: Timothy McVeigh and the Rise of Right-Wing Extremism."

I spoke with Jeff, just before leaving for London.


COOPER: This book is fascinating. You have a ton of new reporting, and interviews, about Timothy McVeigh. And I think it's a story that I thought I knew about. I knew he showed up at Waco. I knew he sought revenge, by bombing the federal building, in Oklahoma. But there's so much more to it.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, AUTHOR, "HOMEGROWN: TIMOTHY MCVEIGH AND THE RISE OF RIGHT-WING EXTREMISM," FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: The thing that really struck me, in getting into the documents, and the interviews that I found, in this library, at the University of Texas, was that McVeigh was not who we thought he was.

People thought he was a loner.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: People thought he was an eccentric. He was part of a movement. He was part of the right-wing reaction, to Bill Clinton, in the 1990s. He was a dedicated listener to Rush Limbaugh.


TOOBIN: That is who he was. That was where he got the inspiration.

It wasn't just Waco that motivated him, which was he did do the bombing, on the second anniversary of Waco. But just as important was September 13, 1994, when Bill Clinton signed the assault weapons ban.

COOPER: In the book, it's fascinating, because you have this quote, from -- he told his attorney, he said, "I believe there is an army out there ready to rise up even though I never found it." There wasn't the internet, then.

TOOBIN: That is -- that to me was the great revelation, of this book. McVeigh was right. And a big part of "Homegrown" is showing how the ideology, of McVeigh, moved forward, to the right-wing, of today, including especially the people of January 6.

What really inspired me, to go back to this story, was when, in October of 2020, the FBI arrested the people, who were planning to kidnap, Governor Whitmer.

COOPER: Right, in Michigan.

TOOBIN: And I knew that Terry Nichols, the co-defendant was affiliated with the Michigan Militia.

And I thought "God, I know these people." But they used Facebook private chats, to plan that.

They are -- if you look at the right-wing terrorists, of today, whether the people -- the guy, who shot up the Walmart, in El Paso, or the grocery store, in Buffalo, or the synagogue, in Pittsburgh? They all used the internet. McVeigh didn't have the internet. He was right that there was an Army out there.

COOPER: He just couldn't reach them.

TOOBIN: He would go to gun shows, but he didn't have the personality, or the technology, to meet these folks.

COOPER: Wow! And so, you could draw a line, from him, Terry Nichols, the Michigan Militia, then to the Oath Keepers, on January 6th?

TOOBIN: 100 percent. McVeigh was inspired by this horrible novel, "The Turner Diaries"--


TOOBIN: --which talks about a rebellion, against an evil federal government.


Quite a few of the January 6 insurrectionists read "The Turner Diaries." And if you look at their obsession, with gun rights, just like McVeigh, their belief in violence, just like McVeigh? And the big surprise to me was the obsession, with the Founding Fathers, this claim that "We are like the revolutionaries of 1776, against evil tyrants." This was -- that McVeigh felt that.

That's why the story was so interesting to me, because at one level, it was history, but it felt very contemporary, because McVeigh's views are part of where we are today.

COOPER: Yes. And I mean, it reads -- it's just a great read. And it -- again, I thought I knew this story. And immediately once I opened it up, I was like, "Oh, my God! This is -- I can't believe all the stuff that's in this." So congratulations.

TOOBIN: Thanks, Anderson. Good to talk to you.

COOPER: It's great to have you here, thank you.


COOPER: Again, Jeff's new book is "Homegrown: Timothy McVeigh and the Rise of Right-Wing Extremism."

We'll be right back.


COOPER: Before we go, two programming notes.

CNN's special coverage, of the Coronation, begins tomorrow, at 5 AM Eastern. You can also stream it on CNN's homepage for free.

And be sure to catch the latest episode, of my Sunday night show, "THE WHOLE STORY," at 8 PM.