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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
CNN Obtains Tape of Trump Discussing Classified Documents; Putin Addresses Russians After Armed Rebellion; Putin: Armed Rebellion Would've Been Suppressed; Prigozhin Claims He Didn't Want To Overthrow Putin; Zelenskyy Says Ukrainian Fighters Have Advanced In All Directions Of Frontline; Remembering A Friend. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired June 26, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
VLADYSLAV PROKOPOVYCH, KYIV BUILDING RESIDENT: I hate the country of aggressor for all my life, and I know that our country will win anyway. So it doesn't -- it depends what happens with us. We just understand that we must live, continue living, and just stay in here in Ukraine, not to go anywhere other place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Not to go anywhere else.
Vlad and so many of the people that we have met here on this visit and of course, that we've talked to over the past 16 months, they all have that incredible powerful reservoir of strength.
Thanks so much for joining us. It's time now for AC 360.
[20:00:44]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening.
We begin tonight with breaking news.
We have obtained what is expected to be a central piece of the government's case against Donald Trump, the actual audio recording of the former president talking as if he is showing a highly classified document on US war plans against Iran with people, not clear to even know it exists, let alone what's in it.
In a moment, only on CNN, you will hear what jurors will hear one day.
The recording was made two summers ago, July 2021 at the former president's club in Bedminster, New Jersey. You will clearly hear the former president as he is speaking to several people.
According to the special counsel's indictment, they include a writer working on Mark Meadows' memoir, the publisher and two of Trump's staff members.
The president was aware he was being recorded. It is the first time it is being played publicly.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are bad sick people, but..
STAFFER: That was your coup, you know, against you, that...
TRUMP: Well, it started right at the...
STAFFER: Like when Milley is talking about oh, you were going to try to do a coup. No, they were trying to do that before you were even sworn in.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's right.
STAFFER: Trying to overthrow your election.
TRUMP: Well, with Milley, let me see that. I'll you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran (PAPERS SHUFFLING)
Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look, (PAPERS SHUFFLING). This was him. They presented this -- this is off the record-- but they presented this to me. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
WRITER: Wow.
TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me. This was him. All sorts of stuff -- pages long, look.
STAFFER: Uh-hmm.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, let's see here (PAPERS SHUFFLING).
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh my gosh.
STAFFER: (LAUGHTER) Yes.
TRUMP: I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
STAFFER: Hm.
TRUMP: Expect it like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER).
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack and ...
STAFFER: Hillary would print that out all the time, you know.
TRUMP: She'd send it...
STAFFER: Her private e-mails.
TRUMP: No, she'd send it to Anthony Weiner. MULTIPLE: (LAUGHTER). Yes.
TRUMP: The pervert.
STAFFER: Please print.
TRUMP: By the way, isn't that incredible?
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: I was just thinking because we were talking about it and you know, he said, he wanted to attack Iran and what...
These are the papers.
STAFFER: You did.
TRUMP: This was done by military and given to me. I think we can probably, right?
STAFFER: I don't know, we'll, we'll have to see. Yes, we'll have to try to --
TRUMP: Declassify it.
STAFFER: Figure it out. Yes.
TRUMP: See as president, I could have declassified it.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER).
TRUMP: Now, I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER). Now, we have a problem.
TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: It's so cool. I mean, it's so -- look, her and I, and you probably almost didn't believe me, but now, you believe me.
WRITER: No, I believed you.
TRUMP: It's incredible, right?
WRITER: No, they never met a war they didn't want.
TRUMP: Hey, bring some -- bring some Cokes in please.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now CNN anchor and chief correspondent, Kaitlan Collins; also our senior legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid.
Kaitlan, first of all, what do you make -- I mean, this is the first time we are hearing this audio. We've seen a transcript. There's more in this audio than we actually had seen I think in the transcript. What stands out to you?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there is more than this and this is a two-minute clip of whatever recording we're told is over an hour long.
But this is of course, the part that is at the center of Jack Smith's investigation, and we knew about this. CNN first reported that this existed and that Jack Smith's prosecution had it in their hands, but to hear it, I think really just drives home and undercuts everything that Trump has been saying.
I mean, even as of a few days ago, he was saying there was no document per se, but you can hear him very clearly in there referencing something in his hands.
COOPER: You can hear him filing through papers, shuffling through papers.
COLLINS: And he's not just saying, here is this document. He very clearly appears to be showing it to them.
COOPER: He says, look.
COLLINS: Of course, only the people in the room could know that, but you can hear that. Why this is so critical to Jack Smith's case because it's Trump acknowledging, I have this document, it is secret, it is classified. I cannot declassify it now because he is six months out of office and it is just remarkable to hear him actually saying it.
And I was talking to someone in Trump's orbit about this because obviously, a lot of people -- several people in his orbit have heard it themselves when they I found out about it in mid-March and we were talking about comparing it kind of to the "Access Hollywood" tape, how if you just had a transcript of that, it wouldn't have been maybe as you know, controversial and contentious as it was when you could actually hear it.
[20:05:12]
Same with this. The fact that we could read the transcript, but hearing it, I think drives it home so much more.
COOPER: Paula, you've reported extensively on this case. What is your reaction to hearing -- actually hearing that audio?
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, it is remarkable how casual this conversation is.
The former president knew he was being recorded during this meeting, his own aides were in the habit of recording him anytime he talked to journalists or people working on books and in the room with him, there were two people who were working on an autobiography for Mark Meadows. But even though he knows he is being recorded, you hear him sort of
casually discussing classified documents, admitting that he cannot declassify these. And then just a few moments later, calling to someone to bring them some Coke.
It's very conversational. It is one of the things that really sticks out to me and I think it's important for people to really hear exactly what this sounds like. There is a lot of laughter in that recording as well.
One of the other things that stands out to me is the fact that he and the people around him in that room were joking about former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's use of a private e-mail server. That is something we previously didn't know about, because it was not included in the indictment.
Now, from a legal standpoint, it makes sense that prosecutors wouldn't include that, right? Because it's not incriminating. It's not really relevant to their case. But in the court of public opinion, the fact that he is making jokes about Hillary Clinton, other people in the room making jokes about Anthony Weiner as well, that I think really comes off as some hubris.
We have the benefit of hindsight here, right? Now, this is being used as a key piece of evidence in a federal prosecution.
COOPER: And Kaitlan, there is that moment where he says, you know that these are the papers and you can hear them and I want to play that again, because it's instructive to actually kind of visualize what he's doing. Let's play this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was just thinking because we were talking about it and you know, he said, he wanted to attack Iran and what...
These are the papers.
STAFFER: You did.
TRUMP: This was done by military and given to me.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: That wasn't in the indictment. That part of it, I think, was not in the indictment. Why do you think that is?
COLLINS: It's unclear. What he is talking about there that he -- for people who aren't watching it super closely is Chairman Mark Milley of the Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, and he is basically saying this is proof that he wanted to attack Iran, not me. We should note that the document that is in question here, we're told it was predated Milley, it wasn't actually something that he produced.
But it speaks to something that we've heard, you know, the former national security officials in Trump's orbit talk about which is, this is not just any kind of information, any kind of document. This is the nation's secrets, which don't just change on a daily basis. You don't just come up with a new attack plan for Iran, that he is just brandishing proudly to random people in the room.
These are random autobiographers who are working for Mark Meadows that are in the room. They don't have security clearances that he is showing this to.
And I just think -- I think this audio changed a lot about the way that Trump's legal team viewed this case. They told me, and Paula and I, our other colleague, Kayla, we have been covering this for months, we had heard they weren't worried about this investigation, that they had this argument that he just took what he had with him. It wasn't nefarious.
He is trying to use that now saying it's just golf clippings. You can see there, he knows exactly what he has. He knows that it's not declassified, it's his own words.
COOPER: And why he is showing it to them, to bolster his own case, to show himself, to brag, essentially.
COLLINS: And there is reporting on how the DOJ and the FBI, they kind of struggled as they were investigating this. They knew that there was classified information that had not been returned, but they obviously had questions about Trump's intent.
This was before they knew that, you know, there are surveillance videos of him moving boxes around before his attorneys come to search and I think this also speaks to his intent here.
COOPER: I also wonder, at the end where he says, you know, bring us some Cokes. I wonder if Nauta, his body man was in the room because he is now also facing charges --
COLLINS: And that was Walt Nauta's primary job in the White House. He was his valet. He did things like go and fetch Diet Cokes and Cokes for Trump. And of course, he's the one getting arraigned tomorrow.
COOPER: Yes. Paula, with that in mind, I want to play what Trump said to Fox last week in this interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else talking about Iran and other things, and it may have been held up or may not, but that was not a document.
I didn't have any document per se. There was nothing to declassify. These were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So he is downplaying the papers he is holding as articles and magazine stories. Clearly, that does not seem to be the case when you hear this audio and he says, these are the papers and he said, look, this just popped up.
REID: Yes and it is significant because "these are the papers," that specific quote, that was not included in the transcript that the special counsel included in its indictment and now it has taken on more significance because he has sort of altered his defense here to say no, I didn't have a document per se. There were no documents.
[20:10:08]
And we reached out to the special counsel's office to ask if this was an intentional omission or a mistake. The special counsel's office declined to comment. But Anderson, you know, your team has been working all day to try to get our own transcript. I helped them a little bit and it appeared it took about a dozen iterations before everyone agreed on exactly what they were hearing. So it is most likely just a mistake and it is unclear at this point if the special counsel will make an amendment to the indictment to include that line.
COOPER: It is an interesting idea, though, if it was an intentional omission in order to see how the president would react. I mean, maybe that's like thinking just too much in advance or maybe I'm overthinking this.
REID: They have the opportunity, look, to go on background with this, to go on the record, say, hey, we made a mistake there.
As you can hear there, there lots of different layers to the audio and at this point, it is just unclear if this was a mistake, if they didn't hear it, if it was a typo, or an intentional omission, but it is likely to come up in the course of this case, because again, this is a really significant substantive line now.
COOPER: And Paula, beyond -- in terms of the other people in the room do we know exactly who they are beyond being incredibly sycophantic?
REID: Yes. No, you make a great point. Among the people in the room, Liz Harrington, one of the people who works with the former president on communications; Margo Martin, one of his longtime aides, and two people working on an autobiography for former White House chief-of- staff, Mark Meadows.
And it is really surprising when you hear this recording. These voices that even the special counsel has labeled as staffer egging him on, laughing. Again, like you said, being sycophantic. It sort of encouraged him throughout this feedback that he was getting from the room.
And in hindsight, you have to ask whether his staffers were really serving his best interest given their responses throughout this exchange. Even at one point, one of the staffers acknowledged, well, now we have a problem, but they're still sort of laughing even nervously.
COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, Paula Reid, appreciate it. Thank you.
Joining us now conservative lawyer and "Washington Post" contributing columnist, George Conway.
George, how damning is this for the former president, you think?
GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER AND WASHINGTON POST CONTRIBUTING COLUMNIST: Well, they the special counsel already had Trump dead to rights because we knew this tape existed in some form, but to actually hear a former president of the United States committing a felony, probably multiple felonies on audio tape, while laughing about it is something I just -- I think, it is just stunning and I just don't see how --
I mean, I can understand exactly why Trump's legal advisers think that this really changes the complexion of the case, because I just don't see how a jury is going to -- I don't know how you can explain that in front of a jury.
I mean, he is waving around a document. He is saying it's confidential. It is, almost by definition, one of the most confidential things you could possibly have, which is, you know, off the shelf plan to attack a potential enemy of the United States of America. I mean, that's very, very valuable, top secret information.
It is something that the Iranians would probably pay tens of millions of dollars for. It is something that -- you know, that if it ever got into the wrong hands, it could lead to the deaths of American servicemen if the Iranians were able to prepare for an attack and they knew what the attack was going to be, if they knew what the options laid out in this Pentagon document were.
It is just -- and the fact that he is just so absolutely cavalier is -- I mean, it is just sociopathic. I mean, this man has no respect for rules, no respect for the lives of other human beings, no respect for the country. No respect for the constitution, no respect for his duties.
He is a sociopathic criminal and this is just another nail in the coffin and it is just another thing that's going to put him away.
COOPER: Yes, I played the video of the former president last week with Bret Baier downplaying these documents, calling them articles and newspaper stories.
CONWAY: Yes, he is lying. He is just lying. He is lying.
COOPER: But what is so interesting about this is how -- I mean, this is what he has continually done, which is, you know, he lies, creates a story and then that story gets debunked and then he creates a new story based on the information that's out there then, because he can't stop himself from speaking.
He will give an interview with that new story, and then that gets debunked and then he'll come up with a new story,
CONWAY: Right. No, it's a totally -- I mean, I wrote a sort of a semi- humorous piece in "The Washington Post" when this first came out last year about cookies and he is saying he doesn't have the cookie jar, oh, you put the cookies there, the jar is mine. The cookies are mine.
And you just -- the story changes from moment to moment to moment. I mean, it's like the narcissist's prayer, which is, if I did it, I didn't do it. If I did it, you made me do it. It was okay anyway.
I mean, just the endless lying and he just -- it is like an onion. You just peel his lies and you get more lies.
COOPER: How much of this undercuts the former president's legal argument that he could declassify anything whenever he wanted, which was the argument they were making early on. A lot of his supporters were making early on.
[20:15:05]
He acknowledges he could have declassified it when he was president, but now no longer.
CONWAY: Yes, and he knows. He knows that he didn't do it. He knows that he can't do it now that he is no longer president and he is telling them, oh, this is off the record. This is confidential. Look at this.
And I mean, it's manifestly top secret, manifestly still classified and that doesn't even matter that these are more serious charges that he's been -- that have been filed against him under the Espionage Act, because that doesn't even require the material to be classified. It just requires it to be sensitive national defense information, which unquestionably plans to attack a foreign power is -- that's secret national defense information and quite sensitive.
COOPER: And yet there are plenty of people in the Republican Party right now who will hear this tape and continue to defend what's in it.
CONWAY: Yeah, you know, I don't know what drugs they are on. I will have what they're having. It's just amazing that they are able to do this and have been able to pretend that this man is not a criminal for so long.
COOPER: George Conway, appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
CONWAY: Thank you.
COOPER: More on our exclusive breaking news in a moment, including what this tape we will play you more of it again now heard publicly for the first time means for the former president's recent defense that "there was no document."
We will talk to a legal analyst, plus we will speak with a former member of the January 6 Committee, Congressman Adam Kinzinger.
Also tonight, tensions remain high after this weekend's short-lived insurrection in Russia. Vladimir Putin finally breaking his silence calling those behind it traitors, but not mentioning anyone by name.
And his one-time ally, Yevgeny Prigozhin defended his actions but saying he was not trying to threaten Putin. We will have a live report from Moscow and a conversation with the Russia expert and editor of "The New Yorker," David Remnick.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:22]
COOPER: More now on our breaking news.
CNN has exclusively obtained recording at the center of the government's indictment against the former president, which includes charges of illegal retention of national security documents and obstruction of justice.
The taped remarks occurred months after he left the White House in July of 2021 and we want to play it for you once again.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are bad sick people, but..
STAFFER: That was your coup, you know, against you, that...
TRUMP: Well, it started right at the...
STAFFER: Like when Milley is talking about oh, you were going to try to do a coup. No, they were trying to do that before you were even sworn in.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's right.
STAFFER: Trying to overthrow your election.
TRUMP: Well, with Milley, let me see that. I'll you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran (PAPERS SHUFFLING)
Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look, (PAPERS SHUFFLING). This was him. They presented this -- this is off the record-- but they presented this to me. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
WRITER: Wow.
TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me. This was him. All sorts of stuff -- pages long, look.
STAFFER: Uh-hmm.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, let's see here (PAPERS SHUFFLING).
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh my gosh.
STAFFER: (LAUGHTER) Yes.
TRUMP: I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
STAFFER: MACDONALD:-hm.
TRUMP: Expect it like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER).
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack and ...
STAFFER: Hillary would print that out all the time, you know.
TRUMP: She'd send it...
STAFFER: Her private e-mails.
TRUMP: NO, she'd send it to Anthony Weiner.
MULTIPLE: (LAUGHTER). Yes./
TRUMP: The pervert.
STAFFER: Please print.
TRUMP: By the way, isn't that incredible?
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: I was just thinking because we were talking about it and you know, he said, he wanted to attack Iran and what...
These are the papers.
STAFFER: You did.
TRUMP: This was done by military and given to me. I think we can probably, right?
STAFFER: I don't know, we'll, we'll have to see. Yes, we'll have to try to --
TRUMP: Declassify it.
STAFFER: Figure it out. Yes.
TRUMP: See as president, I could have declassified it.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER).
TRUMP: Now, I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER). Now, we have a problem.
TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?
STAFFER: Yes. TRUMP: It's so cool. I mean, it's so -- look, her and I, and you
probably almost didn't believe me, but now, you believe me.
WRITER: No, I believed you.
TRUMP: It's incredible, right?
WRITER: No, they never met a war they didn't want.
TRUMP: Hey, bring some -- bring some Cokes in please.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm joined now by CNN senior political commentator, Adam Kinzinger, a former Republican congressman who served on the House January 6 Select Committee, and CNN legal analyst, Carrie Cordero, former counsel to the US assistant attorney general for national security.
Congressman, 2016, then-candidate Donald Trump ran on the protection of classified information saying: "In my administration, I'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information, no one will be above the law."
I mean, you hear this and it's just a joke.
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, it's a total joke. And, you know, hypocrisy through Donald Trump's whole administration was an everyday occurrence. This is a huge example of that.
And I mean, the whole thing about protecting classified information in 2016, we'll just state the obvious, it had nothing to do with classified information. It was a way to go after Hillary Clinton. That's what led to the whole "Lock her up" chants, and all that kind of stuff.
He has no regard for the protection of classified information when he can sit in front of a group of people and impress them with the papers he has, and what I thought was interesting was he's like, I think he's trying to act surprise that he found it. He's like -- I'm going to -- oh, look at this here. This is -- like, first off, I mean, come on.
But secondly, he's just sitting there upset because General Milley tried to pin something on him and his emotion is just welling up so much, he had this rant attack document put into papers, and he pretends like he found it to make his case.
COOPER: Carrie, we hear the former president saying "this totally wins my case." It's incredible how ironic that is. Because if anything, this is now the -- I mean, this proves the government's case.
CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I mean, when he's talking about his case, he's talking about the argument of who in the administration was in favor of developing a war, but with respect to his legal case, this obviously is going to be a critical piece of evidence if the government ends up going to trial.
In other words, if he doesn't ever end up pleading first, and this really does go to a trial.
The transcript of it we had in the indictment, so we knew that this incident occurred already because the text of it was in the documents.
But one of the things that stood out to me now in hearing the audio was that individual who says "wow," because when that person says wow, when it sounds like he is showing the individual a classified document, you hear in a different way than came across in the text, that it really does sound like the person is looking at a document that they observe to be classified.
[20:25:16]
Now, I still think that if this was evidence being presented at the trial, the government would have the audio, but the government also would have to have these witnesses who say and corroborate, yes, at that time, I was looking at a document that I understood to be classified.
But the audio itself and when that person says, "wow," I think does have a different impact than just reading the indictment alone.
COOPER: And Carrie, if you were representing the former president, what kind of a defense could you offer to rebut this recording?
CORDERO: Well, again, the question goes to does the government have other corroborating evidence that he wasn't just BS'ing, that he wasn't just ruffling through papers and sort of flashing something in front of them and pretending like it was classified.
So from a defense counsel perspective, the burden, they will need to put the government to task to make sure that the government can authoritatively convince all of potential jury members that in fact, there was a specific document and there is corroborating evidence that he showed it to people who were not authorized to see it.
COOPER: And, Congressman, the fact that you hear the former president saying that he could declassified these documents. I mean, again, he is saying all this stuff out loud, that he should just be thinking in his head if he wants to defend himself at all.
KINZINGER: Yes, it is kind of funny, because it's like, every argument he has made, he basically rebuts in this two-minute thing.
You know, when he is out there, he is like, oh, I can declassify -- by the way, quick point on the wow. As somebody that seen classified documents, when you see something classified for the first time, it is kind of like, whoa, right?
And so I think it makes sense that somebody that maybe has not seen this classified information, looks at that and goes, "wow," but I mean, Donald Trump has no defense here and what he has decided to do, and it has worked for him in the past, I think the legal system will be very different, but he wins public opinion, or he at least wins enough public opinion in his party to survive.
And I think that's his defense, it is to try to win the people over, run for president, win the re-election and maybe someday pardon himself.
COOPER: That's the goal. I mean, that's the goal.
KINZINGER: Yes, I think that's -- I mean, he obviously -- his ego wants to be president, again. He doesn't want to be considered a loser. But I could guarantee you, in his mind right now, he thinks if I win, that's why I think the trial is going to get stalled as long as they possibly can. He's like, if I win, I will pardon myself.
COOPER: And Carrie, the special counsel would have access to the people who were in that room. I mean, they wouldn't really have any legal argument for not if they were called for not testifying, correct?
CORDERO: Well, I would presume that the special counsel has at least tried to talk to these people, I would expect that these are people that the government has already spoken to. I don't have the information, I haven't seen the reporting that these individuals were, for example, before the grand jury.
But one would think that is the type of information that the government would have wanted to know what these people in the room observed before putting this into the indictment.
Because, again, one of the key things I think, Anderson, in the government's decision to charge this case, even notwithstanding the high classification of all the information and the potential damage to national security, even notwithstanding all of that terribly damaging information, I think the government, because they had evidence that he showed it to other people combined with the obstructive conduct that's laid out in the indictment, those are the two factors that I think would have pushed the prosecutors' hand to have -- to force them to have to bring this case against a former president.
Once they had evidence that demonstrates that he showed information that was classified to people unauthorized to have it, that was a critical factor, I would judge in the investigation.
COOPER: Also, it is just so extraordinary when you think about all the people in the national security apparatus of this country who try to -- you know, who spend their lives trying to keep stuff compartmentalized and keep stuff safe.
The fact that he's telling this to just a roomful of random people, none of whom have security clearances, all of whom can go back to their loved ones that night and say, you'll never guess what the former president showed me today. It's crazy. I saw a classified document. There's nothing to stop somebody from doing that.
KINZINGER: No, I mean, look, we all have egos, but hopefully the goal is to put the country above your own ego and the interest of the country above your own ego. In this case, in his case, it's his ego because he could look and say
I can protect it. He shouldn't have it in the first place. But he knows that's going to impress people. He knows it's going to win his little argument against Milley and there are so many of --
I mean, look, Jack Teixeira I think is his name, the airman that just got arrested for disseminating classified information. There is no other American that knowingly does something like this that gets away with it, the president can't be any different.
COOPER: Congressman Kinzinger, appreciate it. Carrie Cordero, as well. Thank you.
Coming up next, live reports from Moscow and Ukraine in the wake of Friday's mutiny by Wagner Group mercenaries, what all sides are saying about the apparent deal to end it, and where it leaves the power struggle between Yevgeny Prigozhin and Vladimir Putin and what it does on the ground, to the war in Ukraine, next.
[20:25:33]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Russia's President Vladimir Putin addressed his nation tonight about the mutiny by Wagner group mercenaries. Their actions ended inexplicably and suddenly with Wagner forces on the march northward to Moscow, stopping short of the capital and a deal that dissolves Wagner into the regular army or exiles them to Belarus and sends their leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin there as well, allegedly.
No one Friday night expected that to be the end of it. By the same token, though, three days later, no one fully knows what will come next. Late today, Putin said that any move on Moscow would have been defeated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translation): An armed rebellion would have been suppressed, in any case. The organizers of the rebellion, despite the loss of adequacy, could not fail to understand this. They understood everything, including that they resorted to criminal acts to divide and weaken the country, which is now confronting a colossal external threat. Unprecedented pressure from outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Prigozhin, his whereabouts unknown, spoke out as well today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:00]
YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, WAGNER CHIEF (through translator): The purpose of the march was to prevent the destruction of Wagner and the prosecution of those who made a huge number of mistakes in the course of the special military operation due to their unprofessional actions. Society demanded this and all the soldiers who saw us supported us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And President Biden also weighed in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We made clear that we were not involved. We had nothing to do with it. This was part of a struggle within the Russian system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, new reporting as well tonight on what American intelligence knew leading up to the event. Sources familiar with the matter telling CNN it was significant, an extremely detailed and accurate picture of Prigozhin's plan, including where and how Wagner was planning to advance. However, sources also say the intelligence was so closely held, it was shared only with select allies, including senior British officials, and not at the broader NATO level.
Two reports for us tonight from CNN's Matthew Chance in Moscow and in eastern Ukraine, CNN's Ben Wedeman. I'm going to go first to Moscow and Matthew Chance. So talk more about what Vladimir Putin said today.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, this is the first time, Anderson, first of all, that Vladimir Putin has appeared since this crisis, this armed rebellion or mutiny came to an end. So it's been three days that he's been silent, and that was being, yes, that was being noticed, you know, kind of around the country and around the world.
He came out, though, on Russian television looking visibly, I think, very angry. He didn't look like somebody who was prepared to forgive. And he, you know, he talked about how the people who led this uprising and he was referring, obviously, to Yevgeny Prigozhin, who didn't mention him by name, were traitors.
He talked about how they'd played into the hands of Russia's enemies. And he did what he could to reclaim what authority that he certainly lost over the course of the past several days over that weekend of mayhem by saying that it was down to him, basically, that there wasn't more bloodshed than he personally ordered for, you know, the authorities to make sure that there was as little bloodshed as possible.
He also restated an offer he's made to the Wagner fighters that took part in this mutiny to either sign contracts with the Russian military or to leave the country and go and live in Belarus, where it's believed that Yevgeny Prigozhin, their leader, is also heading as well.
COOPER: Yes, I mean, is it clear, I mean, where Prigozhin is or if he is actually going to go to Belarus?
CHANCE: No, I mean, he sort of referred to the possibility of that today in his first audio message, you know, since the rebellion was kind of called off, saying that Alexander Lukashenko, who's the leader of Belarus and a close Putin ally, had, you know, offered the potential for Wagner to keep on operating there legally because it's -- officially it's legal -- illegal in Russia. And so, that was something he was referring to.
But, you know, Belarussian officials, who I've spoken to repeatedly over the course of the past couple of days, refusing to confirm or deny that Prigozhin is already there, and there are some reports that he might be. But there is a press conference that's scheduled tomorrow with Lukashenko, the Belarussian leader. And so hopefully we'll get a bit more clarity on it then.
COOPER: So, I mean -- so, I'm still unclear if was this all about Wagner forces being forced to join the regular army? And that was what was motivating this push by Prigozhin because he didn't want to see Wagner forces dissipated like that? What happens to them now? Because, I mean, they do play a role in a number of countries, certainly in Africa, that bring in a lot of money, I assume, certainly to Prigozhin, but I assume also to the Kremlin in some way.
CHANCE: Yes, I mean, I think so. Yes. I mean, look, I mean, there has been long standing rivalry between Yevgeny Prigozhin and the sort of higher ups in the Russian military, particularly the Defense Minister, Sergei Shoigu, and the Military Chief of Staff, Valeri Guerassimov.
But that battle, which had always been simmering in the background, sort of, you know, blew up onto the surface, and Vladimir Putin quite publicly backed his defense minister in that standoff and basically called on Wagner fighters, ordered them, in fact, to sign contracts with the Russian military. In other words, to basically take them away from this private military company status and make them officially under the sway of the Russian military.
And that was something that, you know, Yevgeny Prigozhin just didn't like. Following that, it was on Friday night, there was an attack, Prigozhin said, on one of the camps of Wagner in which he said several of his fighters were killed.
COOPER: Yes.
CHANCE: And that really sort of pushed the situation to this crisis point.
COOPER: Matthew Chance in Moscow, I appreciate it.
New Yorker Editor David Remnick is a longtime Russia scholar, author of the Pulitzer Prize winning "Lenin's Tomb: The Last Days of the Soviet Empire". He joins us now. David, I don't even know where to begin with you, but, first of all, what did you make of the speech from Vladimir Putin today?
[20:40:08]
DAVID REMNICK, THE NEW YORKER EDITOR: Well, he's incensed, he's furious. He's been unmasked, like the Wizard of Oz when the curtain is stripped back. You know, for years, we've been talking about, or certain people have been talking about Vladimir Putin as the grand chess master of strategy who plays the weak hands, strong on the world stage like no other, et cetera, et cetera, all the cliches.
Now, what's happened is that this personalist regime of Putin's in which everything is dependent on him and relationships to him, beginning with Prigozhin, by the way, who is a creation of Vladimir Putin, we're beginning to see the fissures at the highest moment of tension in Putin's regime.
Now, Vladimir Putin is at war on three fronts. He invaded Ukraine unnecessarily. So he's facing the Ukrainian army, a very determined army. He's facing NATO forces. And now, to some degree, he's finding opponents at home. And I don't mean the liberals that he's jailed or the Wall Street Journal Correspondent Evan Gershkovich who should not be forgotten, jailed.
I mean, people in his own circle. And he knows that he's been exposed 23 years into his reign, and suddenly speculation is rife in Moscow, and people know about this.
COOPER: So what was Prigozhin's game? I mean, was he intending to really have a coup? I mean, he says he was wanting to go to Moscow to confront his forces, to confront, you know, the leaders of the army who he believes are incompetent and he wants to see removed. Hard to see, I mean what, he was going to show up at their offices and disarm them.
I mean, I don't understand how that would have played out. Was he expecting that there would be others in the security services maybe who would rally if they knew the forces were coming? And therefore -- but then he realized they're not rallying, and so he turned around. I mean, what was that?
REMNICK: Well, we shouldn't underestimate the factors of ego and idiocy. Ego and idiocy, because, look, Prigozhin is a guy who spent nine years in jail for breaking into apartments. That was his distinguished beginning. Then he sold hotdogs at the flea market, made some money, and became a restauranteur. And his client, great client, was Vladimir Putin, who set him up.
He became one of the great St. Petersburg new oligarchs of the regime. And one of his acquisitions, sponsored by the Kremlin, was this mercenary army that proved to be quite successful and forgive -- please, air quotes around it, impressive in Ukraine. And that built Prigozhin sense of ego and his pretensions to power.
Suddenly, he was found in political ratings. He was getting some support in various polls. And he, you know, he decided that he was going to show Putin that his army was incompetent and weak and denying him the glory and ammunition that he deserved. And like an idiot, he marched toward Moscow until he felt better of it.
And I don't mean to say that's as simple as all that, but we should not underestimate the very human --
COOPER: Yes.
REMNICK: -- dynamic --
COOPER: That's important point.
REMNICK: -- here of ego and stupidity.
COOPER: And so what happens to him now? I mean, Vladimir Putin allows him to just live in Belarus? I mean, does that seem realistic?
REMNICK: Well, I wouldn't put any -- I don't think Aetna is striving to give him an increased life insurance policy, considering what the record for Putin's opponents have been. And by the way, let's distribute these analyses evenly. It's not that Putin turned out to be such a genius here. A year and a half ago, he recklessly -- and for no reason at all, politically or otherwise, other than his own sense of power and empire -- invaded a country that he thought he could take over in a week.
COOPER: Yes.
REMNICK: And that proved to be absolute folly. So he is in a spot. I'm not saying that he's going to be out of power next week or next month, but I think it might hasten the process.
COOPER: David Remnick, I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
REMNICK: My pleasure.
COOPER: Ukraine's President Zelenskyy visited frontline troops today, giving out combat citations and getting a briefing from one of the regional commanders. He is framing the Wagner rebellion as a positive for the war efforts.
CNN's Ben Wedeman is in eastern Ukraine as well, joins us now. So how has this impacted things on the ground in Ukraine?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, Anderson, it's not altogether clear. What we're -- and I'm sorry, having IFB problems -- Anderson, what we understand is that it hasn't really had a huge impact on the war effort that many Ukrainians were hoping that this chaos in the Kremlin would last a little longer, but it really didn't.
[20:45:05]
Today, they announced they were able to take one village, a very small village in the south. And we heard, I think, the frankest expression of frustration with this situation from the deputy defense minister, who said, our troops are having a really hard time. It is very difficult.
COOPER: And is the issue, the air superiority that the Russians have, I mean, the artillery superiority that they have? WEDEMAN: Well, what we've heard from troops at the front is that oftentimes when they advance, the Russian troops basically run away. The problem is, in fact, the artillery, that the artillery is then unleashed and their gains are nullified. And also, yes, they do have air superiority at the front lines.
Now, the Russians are very cautious with their use of helicopters, for instance. They don't fly them over the Ukrainian positions, but they simply have more of them than the Ukrainians and use that to their maximum advantage. Anderson?
COOPER: Was there any response in Ukraine to what Vladimir Putin said today that you heard?
WEDEMAN: Well, we have. In fact, we heard one statement from Mykhailo Podolyak, who is a senior adviser to the Ukrainian President, dripping with sarcasm. He said, this -- Putin's speech was a truly epic address that determines the future of Russia. He said that doubts are finally dispelled. Russia is waiting for a new president. Anderson?
COOPER: Ben Wedeman, appreciate it. Thank you.
Just ahead, to understand how Putin may deal with this latest threat to his power, it's helpful to understand perhaps how he's dealt with previous threats. Randi Kaye tonight has more on his rise to power. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Before the break, Russia scholar David Remnick said the Wagner group uprising shatters any image of -- to the world that Vladimir Putin is some sort of grand chess master. That is the image he's cultivated of himself for many years. Our Randi Kaye tonight has more on Putin's rise to power.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is the ultimate alpha male, or at least he'd like the world to believe that. Vladimir Putin always presenting him himself as the picture of strength, often shirtless, captured hunting or taking a submarine down deep in the Black Sea.
[20:50:08]
Putin was born in October 1952 in what is now St. Petersburg. In 1975, he joined the KGB as an intelligence officer. In 1999, then President Boris Yeltsin appointed Putin Prime Minister. In 2000, Putin was elected president of Russia. At the time, even President George Bush was impressed, though it didn't last.
GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD U.S. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I found it to be very straightforward and trustworthy.
KAYE (voice-over): Putin was reelected in 2004. By 2008, he'd reached the term limit under Russia's Constitution, so he got creative and switched jobs with then Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev. So Medvedev was elected president of Russia and named Putin as prime minister, a move that raised questions about how much power Medvedev really had.
In office, Medvedev changed the Constitution, extending presidential terms from four years to six years before Putin was reelected president again in 2012.
PUTIN (through translator): We have demonstrated that nobody can impose anything on us.
KAYE (voice-over): Putin has ruled Russia for more than two decades, and his power is undeniable. He escalated the war in Chechnya, invaded Ukraine, and his government allegedly interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, though he's denied that.
He also allegedly had a hand in disposing of his critics, like former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko, who died weeks after drinking a cup of poison laced tea. Litvinenko blamed Putin. The Kremlin denied his involvement.
Still, Putin won his last election in 2018 with more than 76 percent of the vote. His critics have slammed the election as unfair, citing tight control over the media and election monitors. Some critics have suggested Putin has used his reign not to better the lives of the Russian people, but to enrich himself through theft and corruption.
Bill Browder, who once invested heavily in Russia, is now one of Vladimir Putin's toughest critics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, estimate his net worth.
BILL BROWDER, AMERICAN-BRITISH FINANCIER: 200 billion.
KAYE (voice-over): Exact details about Putin's wealth are hard to come by. These photos from inside one of Putin's lavish homes were shared with CNN by an independent Russian journalist who left the country.
ROMAN BADANIN, INDEPENDENT RUSSIAN JOURNALIST: And this man loves gold maniacally, and he loves his rich life very much.
KAYE (voice-over): Putin also likes to keep his private life private.
ALINA KABAEVA, FORMER OLYMPIC GYMNAST: (Speaking Foreign Language)
KAYE (voice-over): But news of his longtime mistress, with whom he reportedly has children, has made headlines. These are pictures of Putin with Alina Kabaeva, a former Olympic gymnast who is about 30 years younger than Putin. She and Putin met more than a decade ago, but are rarely seen together.
PUTIN: Russia has a long and rich experience --
KAYE (voice-over): Despite his grip on power now suddenly in question, Putin is expected to rule at least until 2024, when, at age 71, he will end his fourth presidential term. However, he signed legislation in 2021 that would allow him to run for two more terms, which could mean he may be in office until 2036.
Randi Kaye, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Coming up next, remembering one of the great innovators in television news someone who is very special to me and so many people here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:57:11]
COOPER: I want to take a moment tonight to tell you about someone who is incredibly important to all of us here at CNN, and to plenty of folks at ABC News and NBC News and CBS News and a whole lot of other places. His name is David Bohrman. He died over the weekend and it's simply hard to imagine that because David Bohrman was so full of life and joy and enthusiasm and ideas, so many ideas.
He loved television and news and thinking of new ways to convey the extraordinary events he himself was able to see firsthand as a producer. David grew up in news. His mom was a television writer and his dad was a fixture in California local news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAN BOHRMAN, FATHER OF DAVID BOHRMAN: Good evening, everybody. It's 06:00 here in the Bay area. And I'm Stan Bohrman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was David's dad. By 26, David was one of the original staffers at ABC News's Nightline with Ted Koppel. He quickly became the youngest senior producer ever in network news. He was a visionary. I mean, he came up with ways of doing things that no one had before. He was the first to get live video from Mount Everest.
At ABC, he created a kind of news web page before the web as we knew it even existed. And he also created a completely unique and offbeat newscast called World News Now. Aaron Brown and Lisa McRee were the first anchors, and the show is still on the air. It's on in the wee hours of the morning.
I was at ABC News in the late 90s and struggling to find my footing. And getting to anchor that show was like a life raft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're pre-featherweight. You're like, what's less than featherweight? You're teeny.
COOPER: I'm teeny? How long have you been here? Can I just show you something? Can I just show you something? Can we get a tight shot of this? What does this say? What does this say? Anderson Cooper, Senior Anchor. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We were on the middle of the night. You could do a lot of stuff you couldn't do elsewhere. Were it not for that show, I would not be sitting here tonight. No doubt about it.
At CNN, David pioneered so much, using technology and innovation to create shows like State of the Union and The Situation Room.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'm Wolf Blitzer, and you're in The Situation Room, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place simultaneously.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: David also created News Night with Aaron Brown. And when things weren't going well for me in my early days here at CNN, David gave me a shot at filling in on News Night. And yet again, he changed the course of my life.
David just had so much energy and so many ideas. He changed the way we did presidential primary debates. He pioneered how we cover election nights, bringing the excitement of elections into the studio with video monitors and the magic wall.
David Bohrman took so much pleasure in doing what he did. And in a business where some people have some big egos, David had a big heart. And he was beyond generous with his time and his talent, not just to me, but to a whole generation, multiple generations of news people.
David is survived by his beloved wife Catherine, their kids Amber and Harrison, and two granddaughters, Sloan and Paige. Our hearts go out to them and to all the friends and colleagues remembering him tonight.
Thank you, David. You are missed.
The news continues. CNN Primetime with Kaitlan Collins starts right now.
