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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Odesa Braces For Possible Fourth Night Of Russian Attacks; Special Counsel Continues To Schedule Interviews Even As Potential New Trump Indictments Loom; Democrats Grill RFK, Jr. On Past Vaccine Comments; Interview With Del. Stacey Plaskett (D-VI); Trump Allies In House Push To Expunge Impeachments Despite There Being No Formal Process To Do So; Investigators In Gilgo Beach Case Operating On Theory That The Killings Occurred In Suspects Long Island Home; Bloomberg: Apple Testing Its Own Generative AI Tools; Growing Concern Deepfake Images Could Inspire Real-World Panic; Warrant: Police Took Items From Wife's Home Of Witness To Tupac Shakur's Murder. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired July 20, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: "Large predatory cat chasing a wild boar." Thousands told to stay indoors as police have deployed 30 police cars and a hundred officers, two helicopters in their ongoing search.
Adding to the intrigue, nobody knows where the lioness escaped from. They've checked with zoos, animal parks and other facilities and there is no lioness missing.
Well, thanks so much for joining us. We'll see if that mystery develops overnight.
In the meantime, it's time now for AC 360 and Anderson.
[20:00:26]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening. Tonight on 360: The Ukrainian city of Odesa bracing for a possible fourth night of Russian airstrikes, the latest on the destruction on the ground.'
Conspiracy spreader, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. on Capitol Hill claiming he's never been anti-vaccine, what his record shows and happened today.
Also, did the accused Long Island serial killer murder his victims in his home? The latest on the investigation which now spans three states, including South Carolina and Nevada.
We begin tonight in Ukraine after three nights of intense Russian airstrikes. Dozens of drones and cruise missiles used last night, Ukraine's air defense is struggling to cope with the intensity of the attack and types of missiles Russia is using. In a moment, we'll go to our Alex Marquardt in Odesa, but first CNN's Fred Pleitgen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice
over): Search and rescue crews trying to save lives after another round of Russian airstrikes in southern Ukraine, as goes the Army claiming they're hitting military targets.
(IGOR KONASHENKOV speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN: "The Russian Armed Forces continued retaliatory strikes with sea and air based high precision weapons on workshops and warehouses with unmanned boats in Odesa and Chernomorsk," the spokesman says.
But the Ukrainian say the Russians are targeting civilian infrastructure. One person was killed and several wounded when a missile hit this building in the port city, Odesa.
The mayor, irate.
(MAYOR HENNADII TRUKHANOV speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN: "Another terrorist attack by non-humans on the peaceful city of Odesa," he says. "Look at what they're doing. This is a nursery. There is a kindergarten nearby."
Others desperately hoping their loved ones might be found alive.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN: "They're searching for my grandson," this man says. "From the recording, it seems he went down to the basement. They're trying to dig up the rubble."
Ukraine's air defenses were only able to shoot down about a quarter of the cruise missiles Russia fired Kyiv says. Putin's military using some of its heaviest naval missiles designed to destroy warships and even aircraft carriers.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN: "There is no possibility to shoot them down because we understand what kind of missiles they are, how fast they fly, and their trajectory," the spokesman for the Air Force says.
Ukraine says it needs more and better air defense capabilities from the US and its allies or the authorities here will be able to do little more than try to save victims from the rubble after the attacks.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Alex Marquardt has been in Odesa all week and joins us from there now.
Alex, you've witnessed airstrikes hitting the city for the past three nights. What are you seeing hearing tonight?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Oh Anderson, this is a city that is anxiously awaiting to see what happens tonight whether Russia has a fourth night of brutal attacks in store for it. These have been over the past three nights the worst attacks that the city has seen since this war began, some 70 missiles over the past four days.
President Zelenskyy said tonight that 90 of those Iranian-made Shahed drones have been fired at southern Ukraine. In the past 24 hours, there were three people killed, two in the city of Mykolaiv life, one here in Odesa.
Anderson, for the past three nights when I've been on with you, we have been in the throes of those strikes by Russia. They have happened relatively like clockwork, right on cue around two o'clock in the morning and continuing for about an hour-and-a-half or almost two hours.
Tonight, it is relatively quiet. It is an uneasy quiet given what we know about what has happened over the past three nights. You can -- you have a sense that the residents are bracing. They are waiting to see what will happen for right now. There is no indication that anything is happening.
There is a rather robust advanced warning system here in Ukraine. We often get a sense of what might what might be heading this way. Right now, we don't have any indication that anything is being fired at the city. Why Russia might be essentially taking a night off and not attacking Odesa? Maybe they feel like they have made their point.
They have also expended a huge amount of very expensive missiles over the past few days. We know that Russia is running low on precision- guided munitions. Now, Russia has said contrary to the Ukrainian claim that they have been striking Odesa because it is a retaliation for the Ukrainian strike against the Kerch Bridge, that bridge that is connected to Crimea back on Monday.
[20:05:07]
So Russia is saying that they are Odesa because those sea drones were based here and went out and attacked that bridge from here. So what Russia still has planned, whether that retaliation will continue, that is what we are waiting to see -- Anderson.
COOPER: Alex Marquardt, thanks very much.
We're going to come back to you should any strikes begin.
Back here in the US in the special counsel's investigation to the former president's efforts to overturn the 2020 election, we are learning tonight that more witnesses may soon appear before the grand jury which heard testimony today from two people.
The last time Mr. Trump was indicted, it happened 20 days after he received his target letter from the special counsel's office. It has been four days now since his second target letter was received.
Here with me now, CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, former assistant US attorney and anchor of "The Source" at 9:00 PM, Kaitlan Collins.
Kaitlan, do you know who testified before the grand jury today?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The most important person even though he's not really a household name is Will Russell. He was someone who was kind of a body man//personal aide to Trump inside the White House and followed him to Mar-a-Lago after he left the White House.
Importantly, he was there on January 6th. He was at the Ellipse with Trump. I mean, there's a ton of videos of him always by Trump's side or kind of in the background.
What is notable is this is his third appearance before the grand jury, and that's even baffling kind of to some of the Trump attorneys of why he is going so many times.
One really interesting thing happened today, and this just speaks to the complexity of this case, and also just how intertwined all of this is. All of this is happening at a courthouse in Washington. And will Russell is before the grand jury. His attorney is this guy, Stan Woodward, who is also representing other people, Walt Nauta, Trump's co-defendant. He was late to a hearing of a verdict reading for someone, a rioter on January 6th. He got in trouble from the judge because he was late to that and he had to tell the judge it was because he was dealing with executive privilege issues for Will Russell over here as he is testifying in front of the grand jury that's hearing evidence on this.
COOPER: So, is this guy, Russell, getting his attorney paid for by a Political Action Committee of the former president?
COLLINS: Stan Woodward's firm is paid for by the -- yes, the legal -- the PAC that Trump has that is paying the legal fees of these people. He paying -- he is being paid, of course, through Walt Nauta, as well, and we believe Will Russell, too.
COOPER: Do we know how much longer that the special counsel's office is expected to be calling witnesses?
COLLINS: They still seem to have several more to go. I mean, obviously, Will Russell went today. We do believe someone else is going next week.
We know Bernie Kerik, the former New York City Police Commissioner is still trying to set up a time to go. I don't think that last part really affects what happens with whether or not we see indictments. Bernie Kerik isn't seen as a major player in this, but it is still notable. They are very much still investigating.
COOPER: Yes, the Elie, I mean, you and I have talked about this before. There could be an indictment and witnesses could still be testifying. ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely.
Even if there are grand jury proceedings scheduled all the way through August, this indictment could still drop at any time and here is why.
By the book, as a prosecutor, once you indict a case, you're supposed to stop using the grand jury, but only as to the four corners of that indictment, only as to the specific person you've indicted, the specific crimes you indicted.
But if you are investigating other crimes or other people, you absolutely can carry on. You know how prosecutors always say the investigation is ongoing, we say that all the time. This is why, because you always have an ongoing investigation, this indictment can come at any moment.
COOPER: Why would a witness be brought back three times before grand jury?
HONIG: A lot of different reasons, but sometimes getting full and accurate testimony out of witnesses, especially if they're loyal to the person they are testifying against, it is like pulling teeth. You don't get it on the first time. It's a process.
Sometimes maybe you've learned new information since the first and second time they came in and you want to confront the witness with that and sometimes, it is just a scheduling issue.
So it is unusual to have to bring someone back three times. It does tell me the prosecutors value this testimony. You wouldn't bother with a third time unless you really valued that testimony.
COOPER: And you were saying, this person was there with the former president on January 6 at the Ellipse at that rally. So theoretically, he could testify to the mind frame of the former president. He could do -- he could even verify things that Hutchinson had said.
COLLINS: He could testify to things like that. Remember, she was the one who, when she testified before the congressional committee talked about how Trump had said to remove the magnetometers, just let everybody in. Who cares? They're not trying to hurt me if they did have weapons, which obviously is what the magnetometers are for. Will Russell we are told was there.
I mean, there is video of that -- this tent that was backstage where Trump got on stage and gave his famous speech, and Will Russell is seen in it. So he certainly was around. I mean, we don't know the extent to what he heard.
But the idea that his attorney was complaining before this other judge that he believed they were essentially breaching executive privilege issues shows that they were obviously trying to ask about questions or conversations he had with Trump.
HONIG: Yes, that tells me exactly that. They are trying to get those conversations and I should note, Donald Trump has challenged a lot of testimony and executive privilege. I think his batting average is zero, zero, zero.
[20:10:05]
He has lost every single executive privilege argument that he's brought, and I'm sure they'll lose this one.
And also to Kaitlan's point, sometimes the boldface names aren't the most important witnesses. We are very focused, understandably, on Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani, what are these folks doing? But Cassidy Hutchinson was unknown until she stood up a year ago in Congress and it turned out she had a really important testimony.
So we shouldn't discount someone just because they were perhaps a low- ranking aide or a bystander, sometimes they have the best testimony.
COOPER: I mean, when you hear on the face of it that the foreign president's political action committee may be paying the salary of the attorney representing this guy, that seems like well, helpful to some of the testimony he is giving. Is that fair?
HONIG: I'm glad this is coming out in this case, because this is a very common practice. It's not inherently illegal. It happens all the time.
Corporate cases, a lot of times, the CEO or the corporation pays for everybody. Mob cases, like I used to do; the boss would pay for everybody for exactly this reason.
Absolutely though, what it does is it makes it much more difficult to cooperate, A., because you're going to have a conflict of interest if you're going to be testifying against the person who is essentially paying your bill.
So it is a phenomenon that happens all the time, and it really helps powerful people and it is helping Donald Trump here.
COOPER: The flip side of that is attorneys would say well, I would never tell my client to not tell the truth.
HONIG: Yes, I think that's right. But look, as a practical matter, if you're having your lawyer paid for by Donald Trump, it's hard to say to him, hey, I'm kind of cooperating.
Also, by the way, there's a financial piece of this. Defense lawyers are really, really expensive. Six figures, I think, commonly and let's take Walt Nauta, or this guy. If he were to suddenly flip on Donald Trump, he'd lose that lawyer. He would have to pay for his own lawyer. That's very expensive.
COLLINS: Also, that's what happened with Cassidy Hutchinson. Remember she swapped attorneys because she felt like they weren't allowing her to tell her full testimony to the January 6 committee.
COOPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks; Elie Honig as well.
A reminder, you can see Kaitlan at the top of the hour on "The Source," 9:00 PM.
Still to come tonight, another day of Capitol Hill chaos. Democrats grilling Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. about his past comments on vaccines after Republicans invited him to testify about alleged censorship by Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL): Do you think it was just as hard to wear a mask during COVID as it was to hide under floorboards or false walls so you weren't murdered or dragged to a concentration camp? Yes or no?
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Excuse me?
SCHULTZ: That's a question. Yes or no?
KENNEDY: I didn't hear your question.
SCHULTZ: Okay. I said do you think it was just as hard to wear a mask during COVID as it was to hide under floorboards or false walls so you weren't murdered or dragged to a concentration camp?
KENNEDY: Of course not. That's ridiculous.
SCHULTZ: That's a comparison that you made.
KENNEDY: I did not make that comparison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There's video, we will show it to you. The ranking Democrat from that hearing, Delegate Stacey Plaskett joins us next.
And later, new developments in the investigation of the accused Long Island serial killer including authorities' theory about where these women may have been murdered. Was it in his own home? Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:16:34]
COOPER: For the second consecutive day, a House hearing to boost Republican claims about what they call the weaponization of government descended into something else.
On Wednesday, it was the Hunter Biden probe that appeared to do little to advance their claims. Today's topic was alleged government censorship and it featured testimony from Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. turned into a heated factcheck over claims he's made over vaccines. Brian Todd has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Democratic presidential candidate, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. today issued several questionable defenses of his own conspiratorial claims, claiming the Biden administration has been trying to silence him, telling a House panel this about his campaign against vaccines.
KENNEDY: I've never been anti-vaccine. Everybody in this room probably believes that I have been because that's the prevailing narrative.
TODD (voice over): An assertion that is false.
DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: This is one of America's most aggressive vocal, prominent anti-vaxxers and has been for years. I'm sure people have heard him for years asserting a link between childhood vaccination and autism, even though there is no such link.
And it doesn't even stop there. He has in recent public remarks claimed that the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918 was not a flu at all, but was caused by vaccine research. That is completely bonkers. That's a debunked Facebook-Instagram meme.
TODD (voice over): Kennedy has baselessly called COVID vaccines unsafe. Today, he made this claim.
KENNEDY: I have never told the public avoid vaccination.
TODD (voice over): But CNN factchecker, Daniel Dale points out he did claim in a 2021 podcast to have told people just that.
KENNEDY: I see somebody on a hiking trail with a -- carrying a little baby and I say to him, "Better not get him vaccinated."
TODD (voice over): Kennedy also said this today --
KENNEDY: In my entire life and why I'm under oath, in my entire life, I have never uttered a phrase that was either racist or anti- Semitic.
TODD (voice over): But it was just last week that a "New York Post" video showed Kennedy making this baseless claim.
KENNEDY: COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.
TODD (voice over): He denied that his comments suggested that the virus was targeted to spare Jews. Then there was this exchange with Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz regarding whether Kennedy had compared COVID restrictions to Nazi persecution of Jews.
SCHULTZ: Do you think it was just as hard to wear a mask during COVID as it was to hide under floorboards or false walls so you weren't murdered or dragged to a concentration camp?
KENNEDY: Of course not. That's ridiculous.
SCHULTZ: That's a comparison that you made.
KENNEDY: I did not make that comparison. SCHULTZ: To --
TODD (voice over): But he did seem to make that comparison last year.
KENNEDY: Even in Hitler's Germany, you could -- you could cross the Alps into Switzerland, you can hide in an attic like Anne Frank did. It was possible.
Today, the mechanisms are being put in place, they will make it so none of us can run and none of us can hide.
TODD (voice over): Analysts say the Republicans on the House panel who invited him to testify see Kennedy as someone who can validate their claims about Democrats.
MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: The idea that Democrats want to censor critics or that Democrats wants to take away people's freedoms, vis-a-vis COVID or masking or vaccinations.
TODD (on camera); Analysts point out this is a far cry from the Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. of several years ago who was a credible and effective environmental lawyer spending years spearheading a successful effort to clean up the Hudson River and founding an environmental group devoted to water protection plans that worked all around the world.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[20:20:14]
COOPER: Democrat Stacey Plaskett is the ranking member of the subcommittee on weaponization of the federal government, which held the hearing today. She pushed back on the comments you heard Kennedy made prior to the hearing that COVID was ethnically targeted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEL. STACEY PLASKETT (D-VI): These are individuals who would bring a witness who has promoted a video that compared the COVID vaccine to the Tuskegee trials. The Tuskegee trials were a very difficult time in Black America where individuals who were already sick with a disease were then reviewed, experimented on, who already had a disease, to see how far that disease went.
And making the comparison that manipulates and preys on Black people's feelings about the atrocities of the past in order to prevent them from seeking life-saving vaccines in the present.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Delegate Stacey Plaskett joins us now.
Appreciate you being with us, Ranking Member Plaskett. What was wrong with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. being there today? I mean, why did it so anger you or appall you?
PLASKETT: I think that what's -- well, I think what's so upsetting about my Republican colleagues is that they are giving a platform to an individual who is spewing conspiracy theories that are based on quasi-science, on false information, who is trying to get individuals pitted against one another, who is trying to deny people life-saving information.
We know that his group, his Children's Defense Group were the ones who spread information in Minnesota, which led to a rash of measles outbreak among a Somali community, because they believe that those vaccines were in fact harmful to them.
These are the kinds of things that Robert F Kennedy, Jr is doing and he is using his family's name as a shield to be able to reach him and let individuals know that this is not who his father was, this is not who his uncles were and we need to stop giving him the credibility that they had because this guy is not -- he is not safe for the American people, the things that he says is going to get us all in trouble.
COOPER: I want to play another part of the hearing where you called out your Republican colleagues for inviting him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PLASKETT: They intentionally chose to elevate this rhetoric to give these harmful dangerous views a platform in the halls of the United States Congress. That's endorsing that speech. That's not just supporting free speech. They have co-signed on idiotic, bigoted messaging.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He is also obviously running for president. How much of that plays into why you think he was invited there today?
PLASKETT: Sure. Well, we know that Chairman Jordan, my colleague, who I sit next to, the chairman, gets his marching orders from Mark Meadows, from Donald Trump, potentially from Speaker McCarthy, I don't think he has much say in what happens in his conference. But those are the individuals who are determining that this committee should be used to test run every conspiracy theory that's going to be used in the 2024 presidential race.
So having an individual who they believe is going to hurt President Biden is something that they're going to amplify and elevate. We gave information that this individual, there's a super PAC associated with him that is the same super PAC organizers, who have been the super PAC for Marjorie Taylor Greene, George Santos and the failed campaign of Herschel Walker.
So he is pushing issues that are going to support the Republican Party and what's even more frightening is their whole notion that social media companies which are private companies, private platforms that are open to public use, should not be checked, should not be looked at, should not be -- information should not be looked at them, and it has a chilling effect on these social media companies.
And we know that in the run up to 2024 elections that Russian trolls, the Chinese, the Iranians are going to be trying to push voter disinformation, trying to suppress the American people from voting.
COOPER: Delegate Plaskett, appreciate your time. Thank you.
PLASKETT; Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up, did the Speaker of the House make a secret deal to expunge the former president's two impeachments and is that even possible? Is that a thing? Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:28:30]
COOPER: New details tonight about a possible deal between House Speaker Kevin McCarthy and the former president to potentially expunge the former president's two impeachments. The deal was first reported by Politico.
McCarthy has been working to get back to the former president's good graces after saying last month that he may not be the strongest Republican candidate for 2024. The speaker also has yet to publicly endorse his campaign.
According to Politico, the former president was furious over the comment saying, "He needs to endorse me today."
McCarthy eventually called to apologize, saying he misspoke and in the same conversation according to Politico also made the former president a promise, "The House would vote to expunge the two impeachments against the former president." He told Trump. This was in Politico.
And as McCarthy would communicate through aides later that same day, they would do so before the August recess.
Now the Politico report says that Speaker McCarthy made the deal in the spur of the moment and has now put him in something of a bind, namely that some moderate House Republicans don't want to re-litigate the impeachments, but that Speaker McCarthy is loathed to upset the former president and his supporters in the House as they could push to remove him.
There is that, as well as the question if the House even has the constitutional authority to expunge any of the president's impeachments. We should also note that Speaker McCarthy denies making the promise to the former president.
Joining me now are former Republican Congressman Joe Walsh and CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.
Dana, I mean, what does this whole situation say about the hold the former president appears to have over the speaker of the House right now? DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's tight. It's
very tight.
That has been the case for some time, but especially since January when Kevin McCarthy had to go through so many, 15 rounds of votes in order to get the speakership. He was very much helped by Donald Trump who made calls and got some of the last holdouts on the right in the conference to relent and to vote for Kevin McCarthy.
[20:30:25]
And the idea that whether it was a promise or not, but whether this was even entertained, says a lot because you put the question out there, whether or not it is even a thing to expunge any impeachment, it's not a thing. It is not a thing at all. It is not possible. It is possible to have a vote, to express the sentiment of the House of Representatives, but it won't change the fact that --
COOPER: There's not a giant cool (ph) can with the big feather that will expunge the record?
BASH: You know, oddly, even though the former president would, I'm sure, want to make that so, there is no reality in which that exists.
COOPER: Congressman, you worked with Kevin McCarthy when you were in the House. Is this just another example of how far he's willing to go to appease the foreign president?
JOE WALSH (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, ILLINOIS: Yes. And Anderson, let me just scream. It's not a thing. Expungement is not a thing. You're exactly right. Look, no tears for Kevin McCarthy, Anderson. This is exactly what he asked for when he sold his sold to Donald Trump after January 6th, and as Dana said, when Kevin McCarthy sold every inch of his body to the MAGA wing of his party to become Speaker.
Kevin McCarthy has no core, Anderson. All he wants to do is, is be Speaker. But here's the problem. He created this monster. Trump is a monster. His MAGA, it's not even a wing, most of his caucus, his MAGA, they're -- this -- they're going to continue this. And I have no doubt, Anderson, that McCarthy probably privately promised to expunge Trump's impeachments.
And I have no doubt that Trump didn't understand that it wasn't a thing. But McCarthy probably did it, and now Kevin McCarthy is in so much trouble, Anderson. He's going to probably have to publicly endorse Trump.
COOPER: Dana, do you think he'll do that?
BASH: Who knows? I mean, it is possible. Look, the fact that he deigned to speak the truth back in that CNBC interview that you referred to, Anderson, where he said that he wasn't sure that Donald Trump would be the strongest Republican candidate against Joe Biden.
As soon as he said that, it was pretty clear that he was going to get an earful from the former former president. And now the reporting is that is exactly what happened. It wouldn't be, a surprise at all if he formally endorsed the former president, although, you know, tradition is that that tends to not happen. But I think tradition is kind of out the window at this point.
COOPER: Congressman, do you think -- I mean, how long do you think Kevin McCarthy can last in that position?
WALSH: Anderson, I think he'll last all two years because I think again, he'll give away everything he's got to remain Speaker. Dana's right, forget about tradition. He will -- he'll be forced now to get it on his knees and pay homage again to Trump and probably endorse him.
It's going to upset the moderates, the expungement endorsing Trump is going to upset the moderates in his caucus. But, Anderson, there are more Trump supporters and MAGA members in that caucus than Moderates, and McCarthy has to do what they tell to do to become Speaker, and that's what he'll do.
COOPER: Yes. Former Congressman Joe Walsh, appreciate it. Dana Bash as well.
BASH: You know, Anderson, I would just quickly --
COOPER: Sure, go ahead, Dana.
BASH: -- say -- OK. No, just really quickly, politically, it's probably easier for him to endorse than to have the Moderates in his conference take a very, very tough vote.
COOPER: Yes. Coming up next -- appreciate it. Thank you, Dana.
Coming up next, what the source is saying tonight about the possibility the accused Gilgo Beach serial killer committed the three murders. He's been charged within his Long Island home, where that he shared with his wife and why the investigation has widened to at least three other locations around the country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:38:03]
COOPER: Tonight, a source tells CNN John Miller, that investigators in the Gilgo Beach serial killings case are operating on the theory of the suspect. A 59-year-old father of two committed the murders in his Long Island home. The source involved in the investigation says the suspect may have lured the victims to his home for dates.
In a moment, I'll talk with John Miller about his new reporting for some important details. For several days now, investigators have been searching the architect's Long Island home. They've been seen carrying a number of items from the property, including more than 200 firearms in a filing cabinet.
Suspect is pleaded not guilty to three murders and is the prime suspect in a fourth. All of them had done sex work. They are among 11 sets of remains found at the marsh on Long Island South Shore more than a decade ago. Authorities say it's possible the accused could be connected to more killings. The investigation now spans across the country to other states where he owned property.
Details from CNN's Brynn Gingras.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHERIFF ERROL D. TOULON JR., SUFFOLK COUNTY, NEW YORK: He's laying on his bunk. He's been extremely quiet, not really talkative to staff.
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Accused serial killer Rex Heuermann alone and under suicide watch behind bars as the investigation into his alleged killings expands.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER ANTHONY CARTER, SUFFOLK COUNTY, NEW YORK POLICE: I think in the coming days as we continue to gather evidence, anything's possible.
GINGRAS (voice-over): His wife of more than 27 years now filing for divorce. In a statement, her attorney said, "The sensitive nature of her husband's arrest is taking an emotional toll on the immediate and extended family".
COMMISSIONER RODNEY HARRISON, SUFFOLK COUNTY, NEW YORK POLICE: If you ask me, I don't believe that they knew about this double-life that Mr. Heuermann was living.
GINGRAS (voice-over): A week after his arrest, the investigation spans three states. Authorities are searching not only his Long Island home, but also his office and nearby storage facilities. Two Las Vegas condos he purchased and in South Carolina where he owns land.
Sources tell CNN there agents towed Heuermann's truck, which they say connects him to one of three murders he's charged with committing more than a decade ago. Authorities are combing through evidence.
[20:40:09]
HARRISON: So we're we're looking for potential trophies, souvenirs, jewelry, anything that could be attached to the four women or other women that he might have been involved with.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Several departments are also reviewing cold cases to see if Heuermann is connected. This, as more women are coming forward saying they too, were solicited by him.
NIKKI BRASS, FORMER SEX WORKER: I had a really, really bad feeling, like my gut was like telling me I needed to get away from him.
GINGRAS (voice-over): Heuermann's phone logs and his DNA, police say, are smoking guns in a case that ran cold for years. Court paperwork describes how he used burner phones to taunt victims' families and researched this case as recently as last month. HARRISON: It tells me that he was concerned, trying to take a look at, you know, where do we stand as a investigative team? Did we have someone that we may be possibly looking at it? I'm sure that would have probably scared him.
GINGRAS (voice-over): The 59-year-old New York City architect has pleaded not guilty, but a friend of one of the victims believes police got it right.
CHRIS BIRD, KNEW VICTIM AMBER COSTELLO: It just makes me mad because he's such a big monster.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Brynn Gingras join joins us now. He hasn't said anything to police really since he's been arrested.
GINGRAS: No. And in fact, in that arrest, the police say, all he said was, what is this for? And can I have an attorney? And there's a long ride with authorities in the car from the middle of Manhattan all the way to Suffolk County where he is now being housed. And even their authorities are saying he actually slept quite well that first night on his intake.
We know from sources that he asked, is this going to be on TV It's a very stark difference from what we were hearing from his attorney that day after he was charged, him saying he was very distraught and that he didn't do this. So it's interesting.
COOPER: I want to also bring in CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. He's a former NYPD deputy commissioner. What more were you learning about the idea that the murders may have been committed inside the home?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: One of the reasons they're conducting this search that seems to be going on for a very long time is --
COOPER: They are still searching though.
MILLER: They are. And they're looking for trace evidence, biological evidence, something that could remain even after being cleaned up even years later because in the three cases that they've charged, in the case of Amber Costello, she leaves her house, a truck that fits the exact description of the unique model Chevy truck that he used seems to pick her up on the street away from her residence and her phone is left behind.
But the assumption is he takes her to her residence. In the Megan Waterman case, her cell phone starts in a hotel way out in Hauppauge miles east of his house, and they can track it right to his neighborhood at 1:46 in the morning.
In the Melissa Barthelemy case, her phone is tracked to the area of his residence at 3:11 a.m. So there is a theory that he was making late night appointments at his house in an environment where he would have access to what they call the murder kit, the things he was going to use to tie them up and kill them. That he would have privacy because in each instance of those three cases, his family was out of town and that he would have control.
COOPER: Is one reason he was arrested in New York City where he had an office because of that long drive back that Brynn mentioned that it would give them an opportunity if he was so inclined to talk to, perhaps talk in the vehicle, going back there?
If he was a talker, that would've been an added bonus because you have that two-hour time in traffic. But the arrest was because of a sense of urgency. When you look at his computer searches starting in March when they get up on his computer through court authorized surveillance, he's searching for -- he's clicking on a new serial killer task force that involves multiple agencies.
He's writing queries that say, why haven't they been able to trace the phone calls? He's clicking on articles saying new phone technology may break case. He's feeling the hot breath of these guys on the back of his neck. And in the grand jury presentation, they were worried if this leaks out before the indictment on Tuesday. He may run or destroy evidence. So they moved in Thursday and grabbed him.
GINGRAS: And investigators also say, because there were firearms at the home, they knew he had registered 92 firearms, so there was a safety issue as well.
COOPER: You're working on a documentary for The Whole Story on on Sunday at 8:00, a deep dive on this. I mean, it's extraordinary, the investigation that went into this and the fact that he was able to get away with it for so long if he's in fact guilty.
GINGRAS: It really is. And in talking to some of the investigators with the help of John there, it was interesting to hear the aha moments when they knew that they had their guy. One of them, as John just described, was that that truck, that was a major deal when they were able to triangulate the cell phone to boxes, as I described from the home to the workplace. And then they were able to identify this truck belongs to a person who fits that description of that witness.
[20:45:10]
So I found that interesting when we're all focused on DNA and how that's so, you know --
COOPER: Yes.
GINGRAS: -- definite that that truck was that moment for the investigators.
COOPER: I mean, it's endlessly fascinating how people are able to maintain a double-life like this, allegedly from the people closest to them.
MILLER: You know, if you look at the worst of the serial killers, David Berkowitz, Ted Bundy, BTK in the Midwest, the ability to compartmentalize a family life where they appear normal, a work life where their encounters are typical, and then a very complex hidden life, in this case involving burner phones, fake email addresses, anonymous contacts with sex workers luring them to locations, a lot of work goes into it and it is the hallmark of an organized killer.
COOPER: Yes. John Miller, thank you so much. Brynn Gingras as well. Thank you.
Coming up, inside the race to spot deepfakes like this one of an explosion at the Pentagon, and why merely detecting AI generated images may not be enough.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:50:10]
COOPER: There's a new player in the field of artificial intelligence. Bloomberg is reporting that Apple is developing its own chatbot to rival OpenAI's ChatGPT. Internal engineers are reportedly calling the service Apple GPT. Shares in Apple spiked moments after Bloomberg published its report. There is no release date yet for the product.
Right now it can only be used by Apple employees. But generative AI has reportedly become a major push for the tech giant. Well, there's much excitement around the new technology. There's also concern about the potential dangers AI generated images can cause, whether people can spot fakes in the real-world panic that could be caused by an artificial image.
Donnie O'Sullivan tonight has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RIJUL GUPTA, CEO, DEEPMEDIA: We downloaded the Pentagon Deep fake image and uploaded it into the platform.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When a fake image reporting to show an explosion at the Pentagon went viral on Twitter in May, it led to a brief dip in the stock market. For a moment, there was concern America was under attack.
GUPTA: Here we go. And it was able to pick up the Pentagon image as 78 percent fake.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Wow.
(voice-over): Rijul Gupta is the CEO of DeepMedia, a company that has built technology to detect deepfakes.
GUPTA: So if we look at what actually came through as fake in the detector, a lot of it again is about the clouds, right? The lighting conditions on the smoke aren't what a real world explosion would appear as.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Rijul's company is working with the U.S. Air Force as the U.S. government prepares for what some fear will be a deluge of disinformation through deepfakes.
MATT TUREK, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, DARPA INFORMATION INNOVATION: The generative AI capabilities are just going to continue to grow.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): From a national security perspective, what are the concerns here?
TUREK: That, photo that claimed that there was an explosion at the Pentagon is one example. Certainly that could be used to target the decision making process of U.S. leaders.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The Pentagon itself has been concerned about deepfakes for some time. Matt Turek and William Corvey are part of the Pentagon's DARPA program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DARPA, shaping the future.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): DARPA was set up in 1958 amid concerns that the United States was falling behind in the space race. And today it is still tasked with keeping up with the latest cutting edge research and technology.
WILL CORVEY, PROGRAM MANAGER, DARPA SEMAFOR PROGRAM: So what this algorithm is asserting anyway is that this is computer generated.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): DARPA has been working for more than five years with American Research and other institutions to develop technology to spot deepfakes.
CORVEY: You can kind of see some -- tell us maybe in the building in the background, right? It doesn't look quite real. It's really hard to generate apparently this fencing.
TUREK: Nation states have always had the ability to manipulate media. I think what is changing here is what's the level of skill and resources needed to create those media manipulations. And as we're seeing, that continues to come down.
Rijul Gupta demonstrated just how easy it is to create a fake image in seconds using a tool freely available online.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): And you can basically type in here anything and it'll create whatever?
GUPTA: Yes, pretty much.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): What should we try -- what do you want to come up with and create today?
GUPTA: Well, what if we create a fake image of Anderson Cooper doing karaoke.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Sure.
GUPTA: All right, let's see if this one gets it.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Also, it's just remarkable how quickly this generates, right?
GUPTA: Yes. Yes, here we go.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Which one's your favorite? I kind of like number four.
GUPTA: They've let his hair grow out of it.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Rijul then ran be deepfake. Anderson, drew his deepfake detection system.
GUPTA: So here we see the results for our deepfake of Anderson Cooper singing karaoke. Interestingly, it got his face as being synthetically manipulated. But I guess it's picking up on the lighting on this synthetic version of Anderson Cooper's forehead and cheeks. Again, it picked up on this person over here as being synthetically manipulated.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): There's nothing synthetic about Anderson's cheekbones.
(voice-over): And while some deepfakes are clearly satire --
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hey, baby boopy.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm an absolute ball of zest and flavor.
O'SULLIVAN (on-camera): Like this Twitch account that streams hours of deepfake Trump and deepfake Biden insulting one another, there are very real concerns that this technology will be used to cause chaos and confusion in the 2024 election campaign.
Professor Hany Fareed's studies deepfakes and disinformation.
HANY FARID, PROFESSOR, U.C. BERKELEY SCHOOL OF INFORMATION: I think that the campaigns need to start thinking very carefully about how they are going to combat these disinformation campaigns because they are absolutely coming.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Donie joins us now. But for the record, I have actually never done karaoke.
O'SULLIVAN: Never.
COOPER: The idea of it just --
O'SULLIVAN: Should we go after it? We can go after it.
COOPER: Please not in a million years. Doesn't interest me. Has anyone out there found, like, a beneficial use of deepfakes? I mean, other than amusing --
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. Well, I mean, look, this is, yes, you know, you can have a lot of fun with it. I mean, it's fascinating to see. We're seeing it obviously being used in Hollywood. Some people are saying this is great, you can do special effects much easier.
But, obviously, we also know that SAG-AFTRA and the actors union have problems with that. And then, of course, you know, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see how this could be used in a bad way for elections.
[20:55:08]
I do want to show you, we created a few more --
COOPER: Great.
O'SULLIVAN: -- deepfakes of you using this technology --
COOPER: Oh wow.
O'SULLIVAN: -- that that's you there looking, quite dapper. These are actually done by an AI artist, but still using the same technology, that's you, you know, running away from the burning flames. So --
COOPER: I try to make -- I have a Hollywood career today.
O'SULLIVAN: Exactly. So if this doesn't work out, you know.
COOPER: Donie O'Sullivan, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Still ahead, are police any closer to solving the murder of Tupac Shakur, the legendary hip hop artist gunned down in Las Vegas in 1996? Monday, police searched the home of a witness to his shooting. What they found next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: It's one of the most infamous, unsolved fatal shootings in hip hop history. Tonight, property records show that a house searched this week in connection with the investigation into Tupac Shakur's 1996 killing belongs to the wife of a self-proclaimed witness to the shooting. Police took a number of items from the home, including an iPhone, computers and photos.
Now, after nearly 30 years of mystery, the question is, could investigators finally name a suspect? Tonight at 11:30 p.m., Sara Sidner interviews Tupac Shakur's brother. Don't miss the interview. Again, that's 11:30 p.m. Eastern.
That's it for us. The news continues. "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS" starts now.
