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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Washington Braces for Third Trump Arraignment; Law Enforcement Officers Are Monitoring For Potential Threats Ahead Of Trump's Court Appearance Tomorrow; Judge Tanya Chutkan Assigned To Trump's Election- interference Case; Six Co-conspirators Named In The Federal Indictment Of The Former President Trump; More Than 10,000 Civilians Killed Since Invasion Began Says Ukraine. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 02, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The White House declined to comment saying that this is still a family and personal matter and will remain that way.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: It's certainly going to remain a charged issue no matter how you look at it or how it's resolved.
All right, Kayla, thank you very much.
And thanks so much to all of you for joining us tonight. AC 360 begins right now.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360. The former president chooses to be arraigned in person in Washington as the government's case in his defense take shape. We will look ahead to tomorrow's court appearance with former Trump National Security adviser, John Bolton.
Later Trump's trial judge, Tanya Chutkan, what we know about her history with the former president and the sentences she has already given other January 6 defendants.
And in Ukraine, a remarkable rescue. A Ukrainian soldier saved with the help of a drone which delivered medical supplies and water.
Tomorrow, the former president of the United States will make his second appearance in a federal court as an alleged felon, the first was in Miami in the documents case.
Until Donald Trump in the 234 years since George Washington was inaugurated, no holder of the office has had to do that even once, but tomorrow afternoon at four, if the schedule holds, the 44th president since George Washington will enter a federal courthouse in Washington just a short walk from the Capitol.
He will be asked by a federal magistrate, not the trial judge, to plead to four counts detailed in a 45-page indictment connected to his attempt to overturn the election that he lost, an effort that Special Counsel Jack Smith said yesterday was "fueled by lies" and criminal or not, there were plenty of those lies.
The indictment identifies 21 separate lies the former president told, lies about non-existent voter fraud, about ballot dumps that did not happen, lies the former Vice President Pence had the power, which he did not, to reject Biden electoral votes.
Today, with defenders suggesting his former boss was merely seeking a pause in the certification process, not the reversal of it, now candidate Pence said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let's be clear on this point. It wasn't just that they asked for a pause, the president specifically asked me and his gaggle of crackpot lawyers asked me to literally reject votes, which would have resulted in the issue being turned over to the House of Representatives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, that said, in a separate appearance, Mr. Pence reiterated that he did not want to see the former president prosecuted and that any judgment of his actions would "be left to the American people" which is more than many, though not all of his fellow Republican candidates have said since the indictment.
In a few minutes, former Trump National Security adviser, John Bolton's take. Also what security now looks like around the courthouse.
But first, CNN's Paula Reid starts us off.
Paula, so what is the latest we know about logistics tomorrow?
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So Anderson, we expect the former President will travel here to Washington to attend this hearing in person even though he did have the option to do this virtually.
Now, this is a courthouse that is used to dealing with VIPs and people with motorcades, so it is highly possible that we may not see him at all during this court proceeding because there is a garage underneath this courthouse where most VIPs or people who want to avoid the media can easily pull into, and then of course, there are no cameras in federal court.
But once he's inside the courthouse tomorrow, Anderson, he is effectively under arrest. He'll be processed like any other defendant, though we do not expect that he will have a mug shot taken.
This issue came up in the Manhattan first appearance and the Florida initial appearance. Mug shots are for when a suspect goes on the limb. He is of course, one of the most recognizable faces in the world, so they have not been taking mug shots of him.
Now during this hearing, he will not be appearing before Judge Chutkan, who will handle the eventual case and trial. This will just be before a magistrate judge. It is a procedural hearing, it should be over pretty quickly.
He'll hear the charges that have been filed against him. He is expected to have the opportunity to enter a plea and of course, Anderson, we expect that to be not guilty.
COOPER: And is it clear where the special counsel's investigation goes after tomorrow because it obviously continues.
REID: That's right. The special counsel has made it clear they will continue to investigate and through our reporting, we've gotten some insight into exactly what that means.
We know that special counsel investigators, not the grand jury, but the prosecutors are going to speak to additional witnesses over the next few weeks. This next week, they will sit down with Bernie Kerik. He is a former New York Police Commissioner, but he also worked right alongside Rudy Giuliani in all his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. So that's just one of several witnesses that we know they're speaking to through the end of the summer.
But Anderson, it also speaks to the possibility of additional charges. We know this investigation continues. They could file additional charges against new defendants or file additional charges like they did down in Florida against the former president.
But we know for example, Bernie Kerik, they will be talking to him quite a bit about co-conspirator number one, Rudy Giuliani.
So this investigation continues. The choice to only charge the former president initially, clearly strategic and we will be watching and waiting and reporting to see who else may face charges here.
COOPER: Paula Reid, thanks so much.
Joining us right now, CNN senior political commentator and former January 6 Select Committee member, Adam Kinzinger; former Trump communications director, Anthony Scaramucci, who we should point out is a supporter of and donor to former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie in his campaign; CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, and CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig.
Elie, just in terms of what happens in court tomorrow. At what point does it go to Judge Chutkan.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So she will have the next appearance, and what she will do is she probably has already sent a date to the magistrate and said, hey, I want the parties in front of me for the first substantive hearing, usually within a week or two. You want to get that one done quickly.
One of the interesting things that will happen tomorrow is typically in the course of being processed. The US Marshals, the court staff will run someone's rap sheet where you get their whole criminal history. It occurred to me that Donald Trump is not going to have a zero rap sheet, he is actually going to have two other pending charges on that rap sheet which is sadly a first in our history.
But other than that, it will be a largely formalistic procedure. He will enter a plea, it will be not guilty. They will set bail, but it will be what we call released on his own recognizance, meaning he can come back when he says.
But the big thing at the first appearance in front of the judge will be what indication does she give us about the timing and the schedule.
COOPER: Congressman Kinzinger, former Vice President Pence did not talk to your committee, January 6 Committee; he did to Jack Smith, and they obviously had his contemporaneous notes. Were there any major surprises to you in the indictment as you looked over?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Not a ton. I mean, look, I wish the vice president would have spoken and you know, I'm glad they got him to speak there. He needs to, I think, go a step further and actually say whether or not he believes this was criminal, you can't just fall back on I'm not a lawyer. I'll let the lawyers decide.
I think the things that -- I don't get surprised by these because, you know, I've been so surprised, like my surprise glands are all destroyed by now, but I basically -- the thing that really kind of shocked me was the amount of violence that they were discussing, that these co-conspirators were talking about, that they knew there would be riots in the streets.
It was Eastman or Clark that said, yes, sometimes, you know, to paraphrase, the tree of liberty has to be refreshed with the blood of patriots, and also just the continuation during the actual insurrection, the 187 minutes of Rudy Giuliani and others continuing to reach out to try to turn senators and congressmen.
It is like, it's nuts and I just -- this doesn't feel like real life. It is real life and that is why it's so important for us to follow through and make sure justice is done.
COOPER: Hey Anthony --
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know --
COOPER: Sorry, go ahead, Gloria.
BORGER: Anderson, you know, what was shocking to me was to hear Mike Pence talk about crackpot lawyers. It's not the kind of language you usually hear from Mike Pence and I think he's getting a little bit more bold about how he's going to handle Donald Trump. Because, you know, as he said, today, anyone who puts himself above the Constitution should never be president of the United States. And he said directly, that is exactly what the former president was asking him to do. So, I don't think we've ever seen Mike Pence like this and I think it's going to continue to get worse and worse, because I think he realizes that in order to win this nomination, one way or another, he's got to go right through Donald Trump.
COOPER: Yes, but I mean, Anthony, we said, the person you're supporting, Chris Christie, has certainly been bold in his condemnation of the former president, but there is not a lot of other Republicans running, who have.
Asa Hutchinson and Will Hurd to some extent, you know, Mike Pence being bold is not exactly maybe, you know, most people's definition of bold.
ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I'd say it's like, Howdy Doody calling out the bully in a bar and expecting something to happen. Of course, nothing's going to happen.
So he's a terrific guy, Vice President Pence, but if you want to win the Republican nomination, you've got to go after Mr. Trump. You've got to explain to the American people the lawlessness of what he is, and also counter the argument that every single one of these governmental jurisdictions -- the Department of Justice, Manhattan, possibly Georgia -- they're not politicized. These are objective, careful, people and there is a very high threshold to prosecute a former president.
And so, I think that the candidates, the Republican candidates like Tim Scott and Governor DeSantis, are doing America a disservice by not speaking truth to power. Privately, they go to these fundraisers and they tell people what they think, but they won't do it on the air and they won't do it in the public domain, but they need to start doing that now because the shot clock is ticking, Anderson.
COOPER: Congressman Kinzinger, Mark Meadows -- go ahead.
KINZINGER: Well, no, I was just going to add to that, like it's -- I still am just confused at why everybody is scared to death to call this what it is. I mean, if you're a member of the House, you're a member of the Senate, I get it. You have a re-election. Let's just put the moral aside and say that's the actual reason, they have a re- election.
But these candidates running for president, I think they're still hoping just like in 2016, that somehow this magic pony is going to come out of the sky and Donald Trump is going to be taken out of this race, and since they showed enough fealty to Donald Trump, maybe now, they can scrape up some of his voters and win.
It's not going to happen, and only Chris Christie and a couple of others have had the courage to do anything, it just blows me away. You're running for president.
COOPER: Gloria, you agree with that. BORGER: I totally agree. I don't know what DeSantis is waiting for here. Look, this is a former president who has a 54 percent popularity in the Republican Party. He is beating DeSantis by a boatload.
What have you got to lose at this point? You have to take on, you know, Donald Trump.
And what shocked me from "The New York Times" poll yesterday, "The Times" poll said these are over 300 MAGA supporters and we asked them, you know, are you just willing to overlook anything in order to vote for Donald Trump? There was not one person in that group who thought that Donald Trump had any flaws at all to overlook.
COOPER: I wanted to get back to the trial, because I mean, Elie, the former president's attorney told Kaitlan Collins last night that he thought it could take nine months to a year, given all court dates and stuff for this. I mean, is that a reasonable timeframe? Or is that a wish list from the Trump side?
HONIG: That is high to me, I think, in terms of trying the actual case. There are cases though, that take four or five, six months in order to try them in front of a jury. And even if we cut that estimate in half and say this will take four months. That's a big problem for prosecutors, because there is not an available realistic four-month calendar spot at this point.
We already have, between the two trials that have already been scheduled, March through July, is booked. You can't get it in before that. It's too late after that.
Now, keep in mind, these trial dates are not set in stone. They can move. The DA who has the March and April date, Alvin Bragg, he has publicly been signaling that he'd be willing to consider trying to move off of his date to accommodate this one.
The prosecutors by the way, there is nothing wrong with them getting together -- Fani Willis, Alvin Bragg, Jack Smith -- and saying, hey, let's prioritize if we have room to try maybe one or two trials, which is the most important? I think January 6 is the most important.
COOPER: Anthony, were you surprised Mark Meadows -- I mean, he is referenced once or twice in this indictment, but he doesn't really show up at all. Do you think he's made a deal?
SCARAMUCCI: Listen, I don't know. So I'm not going to say that he's made a deal, but I do think that Mark Meadows, when push comes to shove, he is going to side with the law and I think if he is under oath somewhere, he is going to be telling people the truth.
You know, he is not Donald Trump that is going to spew out one lie per second when he is with people. But listen, you know, Adam Kissinger is a hundred percent correct. What are you guys doing? Why are you waiting on this? Okay, you have a lawless person who is running a cult inside what used to be Ronald Reagan's party? Where is the mantle of leadership in this party, other than Governor Christie and slightly Vice President Pence? Get out there and go after this guy and explain to the American people what he's doing, and pop that bubble that his cult is living in. That's what they got to do, Anderson. And if they don't do that, he is going to get the nomination and we're going to have a redo of the 2020.
COOPER: Elie, I mean, whether it's Mark Meadows or others, I mean, they have more evidence that is not in this indictment.
HONIG: Oh for sure.
COOPER: They're saving stuff for court.
HONIG: Yes, you put as much evidence as you need to in the indictment. This is not everything.
Mark Meadows though, presents a conundrum for prosecutors, because in the federal system, good prosecutors, there is no such thing as halfway cooperation.
And so if you take Mark Meadows, if you're a prosecutor and you want him totally on board with you, and you believe he has committed crimes, he has to plead guilty to those crimes.
Now, it is hard to look at this indictment that Donald Trump is charged with, all of these serious crimes, and say, somehow, Mark Meadows stayed completely on the other side of the fence and kept himself clean while Trump was doing all of this.
So either he has pled guilty or will plead guilty, in which case he is a capital C, cooperator, or else he's really not of much use to the government.
COOPER: Interesting, Gloria, go ahead.
BORGER: Just one thing to add about Mark Meadows. The people that I've interviewed about him inside and outside the White House, call him the enabler. He was with Donald Trump every single step of the way and it is incredibly odd that suddenly he's gone silent and they believe he knows a lot, and that he was the enabler.
COOPER: Gloria, thanks. Elie Honig, Adam Kinzinger, Anthony Scaramucci, great to have you on. Thank you.
Next, more on some of the numbers that Gloria mentioned a moment ago on what Republicans think of the former president after three indictments and former Trump national security adviser, John Bolton joins me.
And later, a closer look at who will be overseeing his upcoming trial, the federal judge with the reputation being tough on January 6 defendants.
[20:18:52] COOPER: By now, it is well known that the former president's legal woes don't have much of an impact on his support among Republicans and the indictments have led to millions of dollars in fundraising for him. Now new polling shows him tied with President Biden in a general election matchup.
Our CNN data reporter Harry Enten is here.
I mean, I think I know the answer to this, but how do Republicans see the charges against the former president?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: You know, what I find so amazing is now of course, he has been indicted three times and you might think with each of these three different indictments that they might view each one somewhat differently. They don't.
They view them all the same, and it's all either 15 or 16 percent who believed he should have been charged. They could charge him with basically anything, and I'm not sure that the Republican base would view it any differently and that is a big reason why he maintains this lead in the primary that we know.
So that's 15 to 16 -- sixteen that's people -- the Republicans who think he should have been charged.
ENTEN: That's correct. That's Republicans who think he should have been charged. The vast majority believe he should not have been charged, just a sliver of the electorate believe so.
COOPER: Okay, I'm not sure I even want to see this number. But what percentage of Republicans see the 2020 election as legitimate?
ENTEN: Yes. You probably don't want to see this number because the clear majority believe it was not legitimate. Look at this, over 60 percent, and you know CNN has polled this any number of times almost a dozen times, I think dating back since 2021, and every single time, the result has looked something like this with somewhere between, say, roughly 60 and 70 percent of the Republican base, who do not believe the 2020 election was legitimate.
And I think that's part of the reason, right, why Republicans do not believe that Trump should be charged given the actions on January 6, because they believe, you know, basically, the 2020 election was illegitimate and everything else thereon, he was just fighting for his rights.
COOPER: So is that the lens through which people see? I mean, you know, how do Republicans view you know, their views on the election 2020 color who they support this time?
ENTEN: Yes, so this, I think, is the key nugget when trying to understand why Donald Trump has a lead in the 2024 Republican primary race. So if you break it down on their views of the 2020 election, if you believe that Trump did not -- excuse me, that Biden did not win legitimately, look at Trump's support. It is into the 60s.
If you do in fact believe Biden won legitimately, you can basically slice 40 points off of that, Trump is in the mid to high 20s. So if people actually believe what is true, that is the 2020 election was legitimate, Trump's support would be far less, which is part of the reason I wonder why the other Republicans are not going after Trump and saying, you know what, he in fact, did lose that election legitimately. Because if they did, they might in fact be able a slice in his base of support.
But for whatever reason, they're deciding, no, you know what, we are going to give the soft hands to Trump.
COOPER: The soft hands?
ENTEN: The soft --I don't know. The not hard, the kiddy gloves, the kiddy gloves.
COOPER: Okay. Harry Enten thank you.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Perspective now -- kiddy gloves -- former UN ambassador, John Bolton, in addition to serving as the former president's national security adviser, he is also obviously an attorney.
Ambassador Bolton, you've seen the indictment alleges the former president only tried to illegally overturn the election, but then he did so knowing that he had actually lost it. Are you satisfied with the scope of the charges against him?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, I'm satisfied with the scope. I think it's a very well done indictment, obviously tailored for speedy trial, which I think is important.
But I think this case has a problem that the classified documents case really does not, and that is the question of what Trump's state of mind actually was and what he knew, purported to know about the election, and what his intentions were.
And I'm worried that given the stakes here, and given the criminal law standard of reasonable doubt, to be enough to find a juror, for a juror to find Trump not guilty, that this this case could be problematic, because I think in the big picture of what's best for the country, which is making sure Donald Trump doesn't become president again, if this case, were to go to trial, first, let's say among the several criminal cases and Trump were acquitted, or got a hung jury, which would be tantamount to the same thing in the short term, I think that would clinch the Republican nomination and might even clinch the general election.
COOPER: Do you think, though, that the public have a right to hear this case adjudicated before the election?
BOLTON: Well, I think the first right, is a defendant's right to a fair trial, no question about it. But I think the public interest here argues almost beyond a doubt itself in favor of trial before the election.
This case and really the classified documents case, goes to how Trump handled himself as a president and a former president and both cases show he didn't handle it very well.
Trump, if he were innocent, if he were really innocent, he would be saying I want trial tomorrow. I want the stain removed from my reputation. That's obviously not his strategy. We all know what his strategy is.
But I think the prosecutors, really now at this point need to work out what the best schedule is going to be and I think, frankly, the Georgia and New York prosecutors should defer to the federal prosecutors, and if need be, move their trials after the election.
Main reason I say that is that if Trump is elected, he will dismiss the federal prosecutions and if he has already been convicted, he'll pardon himself, whereas the state prosecutions can go on even after he is elected.
COOPER: One of the former president's current lawyers made it clear that in the election case, the January 6 case, they are clearly going to make some sort of First Amendment defense. Do you think there is such a defense to be had here?
BOLTON: No. You know, the First Amendment does not apply to conspiracies to violate the law, and Smith tries to show in the indictment itself that he is not going after freedom of speech, so I think that will fail.
I think the problem is in in the proof of intent beyond a reasonable doubt and Smith in fact makes the point, I don't know if he intended to do it, but he makes it in Paragraph 54 of the indictment where he talks about the scheme to set up fake electors.
I'll just read one sentence, if I may.
BOLTON: It talked about memoranda that one of the lawyers prepared, one of Trump's lawyers prepared and he says: "The memoranda evolved over time from a legal strategy to preserve the defendant's rights to a corrupt plan to subvert the federal government function."
Now, that's a statement which I think is true, that it started out in principle to be legitimate, but then became corrupt over time. And I think that's where it gets very difficult and I come back again to the well-known standard of reasonable doubt.
It only takes one juror with reasonable doubt to hang the jury on that count.
COOPER: Mark Meadows is barely mentioned in this indictment. Does that raise questions for you? BOLTON: Well, it certainly seems to indicate that he has been cooperating. I know his lawyer, former DOJ deputy attorney general, George Terwilliger very well. We worked together on the famous Florida recount in 2000 and George is very adroit lawyer and I'm sure he's had some interesting discussions with the prosecutor.
So, Meadows could turn out to be a prosecution witness against Trump very definitely.
COOPER: I spoke last night with a retired federal judge, Michael Luttig, who is a conservative who advised then Vice President Pence not to interfere with the electoral certification. He said these events will forever scar and stain the United States and they will forever scar and stain the United States in the eyes of the world. Never again, will the world be inspired by America's democracy in the way that it has been inspired since America's founding almost 250 years ago.
It's a really sad statement. Do you think that's true?
BOLTON: Well, look, I've known Mike for many years. I have a lot of respect for him. I don't agree with him on that point.
I think Trump is an aberration. I think he is so unlike any other American president, that the stain will be on him and any country have produced this kind of --
COOPER: So many Republicans are still voting for him. They're still supporting him. He could win.
BOLTON: The case -- he could, but it is not a reflection. I think on the country. It is a reflection on Trump's unique ability to lie and get away with it as he has for many years.
COOPER: Ambassador Bolton, thank you so much.
BOLTON: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, the security preparations underway for the former president's court appearance tomorrow. Also the trial judge, Tanya Chutkan. Her history with the defendant and how she has already dealt with January 6 rioters.
COOPER: As we said at the top of the program, preparations got underway shortly after the indictment hit yesterday for Donald Trump's arraignment tomorrow in Washington. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is outside the federal courthouse there, joins us now. So, what do we expect to see as the former president arrives tomorrow?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, Anderson, we've done this now what, three times. And in each city, they've been doing it differently. Much of what we've seen in previous places is going to take place here. We're actually at the back of the courthouse here in Washington, D.C., the federal courthouse where we expect the former president to arrive. He's going to arrive here in the back, Anderson. And what we expect is he's going to be driven here through the back. There is a garage here. He's going to be taken right upstairs to the second floor.
This entire street here is going to be closed. This is where the motorcade is. There's already signs posted here saying that there will be no parking from 6:00 A.M. To 6:00 P.M. So, this entire area we expect to be flooded with law enforcement, as they wait for the former president's arrival. And just around the corner here, Anderson, where we go is actually the side entrance of the courthouse, where we also expect there to be a large presence -- law enforcement presence. We're not seeing that right now. But certainly through the night and into the morning, we do expect that to change, Anderson.
COOPER: And what kind of preparations are being put in place tonight?
PROKUPECZ: So, actually, I want to show you something, Anderson, when we get to the corner here. We're just a couple of blocks from the Capitol, and we have already seen Capitol Police putting barriers, barricades in place. The Capitol is just down the street here and to the left, and you could see -- we saw -- Capitol Police, other officials, starting to put up barricades. There's so much concern here that they're trying to secure the area around the Capitol. Of course, January 6 on the minds of many here in law enforcement. And because of that, they're going as far as across the street here and placing barriers, these metal barriers that you see here. They're now placing them all across the Capitol.
And just up here, Anderson, will be the entrance to the courthouse, the side entrance, where many of the press are gathering already, as you can see, to get in line to get inside the courthouse. And obviously, this entire street, we expect that law enforcement will close it down. We expect other street closures, given how close we are to the Capitol. And obviously, there is just a lot of concern. There's no threats, no credible threats. But officials here are not taking any chances. And so tomorrow, certainly by the morning, we should see more security, more law enforcement officials present out here.
COOPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks so much. Appreciate it. As we mentioned earlier, tomorrow, the former president has decided to show up in person. He'll go before the magistrate judge at the federal courthouse in Washington for his criminal trial, though a federal judge was chosen at random to oversee the proceedings. Her name is Judge Tanya Chutkan. She's been on the bench for nearly a decade and has ruled on another legal fight of the former president's as well as sentenced a number of January 6th defendants. Randi Kaye has more about here.
RANDI KAYE, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): She has described the events of January 6th as a violent mob seeking to overthrow the lawfully elected government. District Judge Tanya Chutkan has a reputation as someone who hands down harsh sentences specifically in cases related to the January 6th rioters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has talked about 2024 and the threat that these rioters pose before during sentences.
KAYE (voice-over): As a federal judge in D.C., Chutkan has presided over dozens of criminal cases against alleged January 6th rioters. She has often been outspoken at their sentencing hearings. At a January 2022 sentencing hearing for two friends who had gone to the Capitol, Chutkan said, "This wasn't Bill and Ted's excellent adventure." She added, "They came to Washington knowing full well the events of January 6th. Their actions were an assault on the American people." She also called it a violent attempted overthrow of the government that almost succeeded.
At the criminal sentencing of another rioter, she said this.
TANYA CHUTKAN, DISTRICT JUDGE: He did not go to the U.S. Capitol out of any love for our country. He went for one man. One man in that sentence would be Donald Trump.
KAYE (voice-over): This won't be the first time Chutkan has dealt with a case involving the former president. In November 2021, Chutkan rejected Trump's efforts to block the House Select Committee investigating January 6th from accessing more than 700 pages of records from the White House. In her ruling in that case, she wrote this memorable line. "Presidents are not kings, and plaintiff is not president." Chutkan has called the January 6th violence an assault on American Democracy, saying rioters soiled and defaced the halls of the Capitol and showed their contempt for the rule of law.
She's repeatedly gone above what prosecutors have requested for convicted rioters' prison sentences. Chutkan has also issued a warning about political violence at a sentencing hearing in December 2021. It has to be made clear that trying to stop the peaceful transition of power, assaulting law enforcement is going to be met with certain punishment.
Chutkan was born in Kingston, Jamaica. She was appointed by Barack Obama in 2014 and has served as a federal judge since the senate confirmed her 95-0. Before that, she spent more than a decade working as a public defender after graduating from the University of Pennsylvania Law School.
Randi Kaye, CNN.
COOPER: Well, just ahead tonight, we're going to tell you more about the six co-conspirators named in the federal indictment of the former president, who most of them are and what they are alleged to have done.
COOPER: CNN has identified five of the six co-conspirators at the Special Counsel's Office as the former president listed to "assist him in his criminal efforts to overturn the legitimate result of the 2020 presidential election and retain power." The names were not included in the 45-page indictment, but CNN has been able to identify those -- or I should say, most of those individuals using quotations from the indictment and context from other sources. Paula Reid has more details.
REID (voice-over): Co-Conspirator one, prosecutors describe as an attorney who was willing to spread knowingly false claims and pursue strategies that the defendant's 2020 re-election campaign attorneys would not. That is Rudy Giuliani, the man at the center of Trump's efforts.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: And if we're wrong, we will be made fools of.
REID (voice-over): According to the indictment, Co-Conspirator one left a voice mail for a U.S. senator hours before the deadly riot at the Capitol on January 6th, asking the lawmaker to stop Congress from certifying the vote.
GIULIANI (via telephone): Senator Tuberville, we need you, our Republican friends, to try to just slow it down so we can get these legislators to get more information to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Eastman.
REID (voice-over): CNN learned Co-Conspirator two is lawyer John Eastman, the architect of a plot to have then Vice President Mike Pence block the certification.
JOHN EASTMAN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: All we are demanding of Vice President Pence is this afternoon at 1:00 P.M., he let the legislators of the state look into this.
REID (voice-over): Prosecutors point to a memo CNN has confirmed was authored by Eastman, arguing that Pence had that authority, even though most legal experts disagree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the Trump legal team ask you to prepare memorandum regarding the vice president's role in the counting of electoral votes during a session of Congress on January 6, 2021?
MIKE PENCE, (R) FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes.
REID (voice-over): The third alleged co-conspirator is former Trump election lawyer Sidney Powell, a prominent peddler of false voting fraud claims.
SIDNEY POWELL, CO-CONSPIRATOR IN JANUARY 6 CASE: We have evidence of different numbers of votes being injected into the system.
REID (voice-over): The indictment cites a lawsuit that Powell filed based in part on false claims that Georgia poll workers tipped the scales for Biden. The fourth co-conspirator
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Mr. Clark.
JEFFREY CLARK, CO-CONSPIRATOR IN JANUARY 6 CASE: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you? Good morning.
CLARK: Good morning.
REID (voice-over): Former Justice Department Official Jeffrey Clark, tapped by Trump in the final days of his presidency to help keep him in office, later becoming a focus of investigators who even searched his home. The indictment referring to an email a top Justice Department official sent to Clark rebutting Clark's attempting to use the Justice Department to overturn the election.
Co-conspirator five is pro-Trump lawyer Kenneth Chesebro. Among other things, the indictment references an email memo that co-conspirator five sent to Giuliani on December 13, 2020 about the fake electors plot.
CNN has not been able to identify the sixth co-conspirator, described as a political consultant who helped implement a plan to submit fraudulent slates of presidential electors to obstruct the certification proceeding.
COOPER: Back with us, Paula Reid, do you know if any of these people could be charged in the future?
REID: It's certainly possible, Anderson. Because while it remains up to a jury whether the former president's conduct was illegal, it's clear, it's a fact that he did not engage in this conduct alone. And it's a strategic choice to only charge Former President Trump here. And we know that additional witnesses are coming in, and some of those witnesses could be able to provide very helpful evidence, either in support of or against these co-conspirators, like Bernie Kerik we talked about earlier in the show. He is going to be a key witness when it comes to the decision on whether or not to charge Rudy Giuliani, for example. So, this investigation continues. It is notable that these people were described and identified as co-conspirators. And Anderson, it is certainly possible that all of them or some of them may be charged.
COOPER: All right. Paula Reid, thanks so much.
Just ahead, an incredible rescue of a wounded Ukrainian soldier spotted by a drone -- you see him there -- which then went back and delivered supplies to him and let him know that help was on the way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:48:35]
COOPER: I want to turn to the war in Ukraine now. Ukrainian officials today said more than 10,000 civilians have been killed since the war began. That doesn't include those killed in Russian-occupied areas. While military officials today are claiming small advances in the Southeast of the country, Russia continues its drone strikes. These images are from damage to a port in the Odesa region. President Zelenskyy says that, in all, 37 Iranian-made drones attacked Ukraine early this morning, there were apparently no casualties. Our Nick Paton Walsh has some stunning video from the frontlines of how Ukrainians are administering aid to both their soldiers and to the Russians they capture. In one case, they used a drone to help save a Ukrainian soldier's life.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is usually only the dead lying here in the craters of Ukraine's southern front. But sometimes a glint of life shines. This drone spotting a Ukrainian soldier, Serhiy, separated from his unit. Wounded in the chest and leg by shelling, he filmed this as he lay alone bleeding. He feared whatever fight to live he put up would not be enough, he later told CNN from his hospital bed.
SERHIY, UKRAINIAN SOLDIER (through translator): I was ready to fight for my life, and I did, even lying there under the blazing sun. I realized I was too close to the Russians, and you even start to look at your gun in a different way.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): But the drone operators had other plans. They attached water, medicine and a note to the drone and sent it back. It found him again and dropped the package but he didn't know if it was friendly or a Russian bomb.
SERHIY (through translator): All the time I was crawling, a drone was always hovering above. We didn't realize if it was a friend or foe. It was a lottery.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): This is the moment he realizes the drone may save him. The water and medicine kept coming, easing the pain that was visible even from up high, and then he crawled back to safety.
SERHIY (through translator): The combat medics who gave me first aid when they found me were very surprised I survived for two days with a pierced lung.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): Serhiy is recovering and talks now of a new life with greater value and purpose. They don't want to leave anyone behind, said the drone operator.
EUGENE, DRONE PILOT, 15TH NATIONAL GUARD BRIGADE (through translator): Every life is important to us. I could not live with myself if we just left someone behind in the field. PATON WALSH (voice-over): Probably only several miles away, salvation
was uglier. Here is Ukrainian assault by the 15th National Guard on a Russian position. It is ferocious and eventually forced a dozen Russian troops to pull back. Artillery that injured the Russian Commander badly and the Russians left him behind, presuming he was dead. But this video supplied by Ukrainian forces shows they found him alive and he received medical treatment.
We're not naming him for his safety, but he was later awarded a posthumous medal according to Russian media reports. Left behind and declared dead by his comrades. The Ukrainians who found him say he may have wished he didn't survive.
TECHNIK, ASSAULT SQUAD, 15TH NATIONAL GUARD BRIGADE (through translator): We said don't try anything or you'll die, he says -- and he asked us to shoot him. And we offered him a chance to do it himself, but he said he could not do that. He is an enemy and I had no real desire to save him, but orders are orders and they have our guys, and we can swap prisoners.
KROS, ASSAULT SQUAD, 15TH NATIONAL GUARD BRIGADE (through translator): As a human, another says, I was shocked that they had left him behind. But as a soldier, I know my enemy and I know it's not an uncommon practice for them.
PATON WALSH (voice-over): The opposite fates on different sides in these wide ugly expanses of violence.
COOPER: Nick joins us now. What an extraordinary human story from different vantage points on the battlefield. I mean, the idea that that drone would spot that soldier and be able to bring him supplies. I mean that's an incredible report.
PATON WALSH: I think it's a reflection of the ingenuity we see frankly from the Ukrainians using something frankly which you could fit up in your own garage and pull together to drop medicine and it was interesting to hear from the soldier who survived this, said an extraordinary sense of his fortune being found, being rescued, and medicine seems to have picked him up enough, given him enough energy to get himself back. And also too, reflecting his desire to perhaps not immediately run back to the frontlines, but still if called upon to come back to the fight partially. And also too, I think, then Anderson, the fate of the Russian Commander, sadly another reflection too of how Russia appears to value the lives of their own forces.
Yes, we do know they may have presumed him to have been killed because of the heavy artillery strikes on that trench. But the speed, frankly, in which he was simply written off and presumed to have passed, and then given a posthumous medal, a reflection really I think of the different value of human life by Moscow, Anderson.
COOPER: Yeah. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.
A quick programming note. The family of Travis King, the American soldier who crossed into North Korea is speaking out tonight. They'll join Laura Coates coming up at 10:00 P.M. Eastern.
Next for us, we remember a friend, a member of our CNN family.
COOPER: It's a very sad day here at CNN. We lost a colleague and a friend. Melissa Elkas was her name. She died today after a medical emergency. She worked here for 26 years, starting in Atlanta and eventually moving to New York. To say that she was a vital part of CNN would be an understatement. Melissa could do it all. She was an electronic graphics operator and was part of a lot of different show teams. She helped with CNN Heroes and with our election coverage. Her job encompassed a lot. But one thing she did was put the words below me, like the ones you see now. "We remember a friend."
Melissa was really good at her job, but she was also a really, really good human being. She was kind and loving. She was a mentor, always willing to help others. And she knew how to make other people feel good. Melissa and others set up a kind of fancy area for dinner here at work. You see it there. They called it Chalissa's (ph) with a tablecloth, flowers, a candlelight and sparkling apple cider that kind of looks like real wine.
There was another thing about Melissa that so many people here will never forget, and that was her laugh. It was infectious. You can just see in that picture. You can imagine it. You can hear her laugh echo through halls at work and in the control room. And believe me, there is a lot of pressure in this job, but that laugh, Melissa could help put things in perspective. Thank you, Melissa, for your laugh and for your creativity, and for your kindness.
Our hearts go out to Melissa's mom Regina, her brother John, and Jennifer her sister, her sister-in-law as well, and all her nieces and nephews. Their hearts are broken tonight and we send them our love and we send Melissa our love as well. Melissa Elkas was 52 years old.
That's it for us. The news continues. "The Source With Kaitlan Collins" starts now.