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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Judge Denies Meadows' Request To Move Georgia Case To Federal Court; Philly DA Releases Body Cam Video Of Man Shot By Officer; Anderson Cooper 360 20 Years; Aired 8-9p ET
Aired September 08, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, we will see what happens in these next hours.
Danny, thank you very much.
And thanks very much to all of you for joining us on this Friday. AC 360 begins right now.
[20:00:13]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360: Breaking news. The judge says Mark Meadows trial will stay put, not federal trial, because his alleged crimes had nothing to do with his role at the time as the former president's chief-of-staff.
Also tonight, one of the country's top constitutional scholars on the effort he helped launch to bar Donald Trump under the 14th Amendment from ever holding high office again.
And tonight marks the 20th year this broadcast has been on CNN, so we'll take you back to some of the most memorable moments we've covered.
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COOPER: Also two media centers built -- whoa. That was a rather large explosion.
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COOPER: And some of the most ridiculous ones as well.
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COOPER: All right. Sorry.
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COOPER: Yes, I am not proud of that.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We begin with the breaking news. A judge late today denying Mark Meadows' request to hold his Georgia RICO trial in federal court. US district court Judge Steve Jones ruling that his alleged crimes did not involve his official duties as White House chief-of-staff, and I'm quoting from his order now: "The court finds that the color of the Office of the White House Chief of Staff did not include working with or working for the Trump campaign, except for simply coordinating the President's schedule, traveling with the president to his campaign events, and redirecting communications to the campaign."
Bottom line says the judge: "The court concludes that Meadows has not met even the quite low threshold for removal." It comes at the end of the day that began with the release of the full report from Fulton County's factfinding special grand jury.
That panel first recommended charges against Meadows and 18 others including the former president. In addition, we've learned, providing a fascinating and rare look inside the process, the report included the 21 additional people that they recommended for indictment, but whom the district attorney, Fani Willis declined to pursue and they included both Georgia Republican senators at the time, former National Security adviser, Michael Flynn, and sitting Senator Lindsey Graham.
Today, despite being not indicted, along with 20 others, Senator Graham said this.
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I think the system in this country's getting off the rails, and we have to be careful not to use the legal system as a political tool.
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COOPER: Again, he and 20 others might have been indicted, but were not indicted by the system that he's now complaining about.
Joining us with more, CNN's Paula Reid.
So, Paula, in the case of Meadows, what more does the judge's ruling say? And what did the judge say about Meadows' testimony last month?
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting you asked about the testimony because his own words were used against him.
All right, Meadows' lawyers are arguing that everything that Meadows did as part of this alleged conspiracy was part of his job as the White House chief-of-staff.
Now, in the indictment, they lay out eight overt acts that Meadows took in furtherance of this alleged conspiracy. His lawyers insist all eight of them, that was all part of being a White House chief-of- staff. But the judge here saw it differently. He said no, these were political activities.
And then points to his testimony, noting that when he was asked to describe the limits of his power as chief-of-staff, he couldn't. And then they also note that in that infamous call with the secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, he points to the fact that the lawyers in the call, those were campaign lawyers, and the judge firmly rules that these were all political activities, which is why he's not going to be able to remove this case to federal court.
His lawyers had hoped that they could get this removed to federal court and then get it dismissed because there are certain immunity protections afforded to federal officials. But of course, it does not appear that that is going to work out for them here, though we do expect they will try to explore all of their appeal options.
COOPER: And what does it mean for the 18 other defendants in the case?
REID: Well, officially, the judge says this should have no impact on any other defendants. Meadows was the first of five defendants who have said they are going to try to move their case to federal court. We also expect the former president will do so as well. But I've talked to lawyers who represent defendants in this case, they were all watching the Meadows case.
Some haven't even filed yet. They're like, I'm not even going to bother until I see what happens with Meadows because if he's not successful, my client sure as heck is not going to be able to meet this bar because they believe that as the White House chief-of-staff, he had the greatest chance of successfully removing his case to federal court. So it's not a great sign for the other people have tried to do this.
Now former President Trump is not similarly situated. It's a different -- it's just a different case. It's going to be a different set of considerations for a judge, even when he formally files to try to remove his case.
But Anderson, this is significant because even the judge overseeing this case talked about this appeal and the potential for other appeals and how that could impact the timeline for a potential trial. So this is the most significant development in this case since the indictment came down.
COOPER: Yes. Paula Reid, thank you.
[20:05:06]
Joining us now is former Georgia State senator, Jen Jordan, a practicing attorney who gave grand jury testimony in the case. Also former federal prosecutor Jessica Roth, and CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers.
Professor Roth, what do you think in terms of what this means for the former president, because I do want to read what Paula mentioned, which is what the judge said. He said: "The court also makes clear that its determination on Meadows's notice of removal and its jurisdiction over his criminal prosecution does not at this time have any effect on the outcome of the other co-defendants who filed notices of removal of the criminal prosecution against them." JESSICA ROTH, NEW YORK CARDOZO LAW SCHOOL LAW PROFESSOR AND FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: So it was notable that the judge made clear that he was not prejudging the motions by any other defendants, but it is really hard to imagine, given the reasoning in his opinion that any other defendant, including the former president would succeed on their motion for removal, given the reasoning in this opinion, including that the president and his chief-of-staff, focus here is on the chief- of-staff, but it would apply equally to the president should not have been playing a role in the state certification of the electors.
And so that same logic should apply with equal force to the president, perhaps even more so.
COOPER: And Jennifer Rodgers, the judge was pretty brutal about Mark Meadows' case that was presented. I mean, as he said it was a low bar, and he failed to even meet that.
JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, the judge was careful to say, you know, I'm going to go through his testimony, because that was the main evidence that they presented, but I'm not saying that he's lying. But you know, they, they attacked all of the overt acts, and that's what we're going to focus on and he went through them one by one and just said, you know, he couldn't even tell us the outer limits of his job responsibilities.
And so, you know, I find that, you know, he wasn't acting within that when he was acting on behalf of the campaign, meeting with campaign lawyers and asking them to do campaign related things like more recounts, spending campaign money for recounts, and that sort of thing.
COOPER: I mean, the job of the chief-of-staff is not to go to Georgia and oversee a recount or pressure people to do a recount, and the judge pointed this out, it's essentially to run interference and direct people to the campaign when they are stuff that should be the job of the campaign.
ROTH: Yes, and the judge pointed specifically to the Hatch Act, which is the federal law that precludes federal officials from pursuing political campaign related activities during their official time, and said that that's very instructive in terms of determining whether or not Mark Meadows was acting properly within his official duties when he pursued these very clearly campaign related political activities.
COOPER: Jen Jordan, I mean, as someone who testified before the Georgia grand jury as part of the investigation, I'm wondering what you thought of the judge's decision?
JEN JORDAN (D), FORMER GEORGIA STATE SENATOR: I mean, I think it's right legally. I think it's important to look at his analysis with respect to Georgia's RICO statute, and specifically Meadows team really attacked the overt acts. But you really don't have to prove the overt acts in order to get to Rico and get to the conspiracy. They're really they're just kind of as almost as flags or placeholders. And so, it is interesting, because really, the prosecutor doesn't have an obligation to plead over acts necessarily and can even prove other overt acts during the trial.
So focusing just on those acts that aren't criminal in nature and that's really what they did, even in terms of the messaging, right? They wanted to say, oh, this was just him setting up a meeting and you know, this is what he is supposed to do as chief-of-staff and really just kind of focusing on those acts.
But at the end of the day, that doesn't even carry the water with respect to the legal burden that the prosecutor is ultimately going to have to meet if she's going to prove this RICO case.
COOPER: Professor Roth, is there any benefit for Meadows now to move for a speedy trial in Georgia? Or would it benefit him to just hang back and watch the others who are moving for a speedy trial so they can see what evidence is presented?
ROTH: Well, I expect he's going to appeal this decision.
COOPER: To the 11th?
ROTH: Yes, he has a right under the removal statute to appeal an adverse decision on the removal and so, if he really --
COOPER: That's at the 11th circuit, which is more conservative.
ROTH: Yes.
COOPER: And this is an area where there really isn't much law, and the district court judge acknowledged that. And I think that's part of why he wrote such a long, thorough opinion. He recognizes he is making new law here, and the 11th circuit could view this differently.
So if Meadows really wants to be in federal court and if he wants to delay things, then he would likely pursue the appeal. I don't see him having any advantage of pursuing a speedy trial, then why not hold back and see how the first trial goes and what the evidence is. Maybe there's a strategic reason to move for a speedy trial at this point, but I'm not seeing it.
COOPER: Yes. Jen Rodgers, just moving to the other story, which is out of Fulton County. Were you surprised by what we learned today about the other defendants that could have been charged?
RODGERS: I was surprised there were so many. I mean, you know, 39 people that the special grand jury identified as chargeable. You know, I'll also say it says a couple of things. One is that Fani Willis and her team clearly went through the evidence with a fine-tooth comb, that they didn't just rubber stamp this special grand jury's recommendations.
They went through each person, each count, made sure that they had the proof they wanted before proceeding and acted within their prosecutorial discretion. [20:10:17]
I will also say, and we talked about this earlier, I think it's really unfortunate that the names were released. I mean, you could have known how many people were recommended for prosecution and how many Fani Willis, of course, ultimately charged without leaving those names open.
COOPER: Unfortunate because?
RODGERS: Because these people have a right to privacy and a due process right not to have their names out there. And now, the whole world knows that --
COOPER: Their names out there when they weren't being charged.
RODGERS: Exactly. A special grand jury found that they shouldn't be charged, really, prosecutors disagreed. But now these people kind of have to live without having the opportunity to kind of clear their names in court. Not that they want that opportunity, but it's something that would never happen in the federal system.
And just like tonight, we're talking about how, even though transparency is generally a good thing, I think in this instance, it would have been better to keep those names redacted.
COOPER: Jen Jordan, in this new filing today, Rudy Giuliani, this was late today, is asking the court to quash his indictment or at least have a hearing on the matter. He called the indictment, a conspiratorial bouillabaisse consisting of purported criminal acts, daily activities, and constitutionally protected speech. Do you see any way that Giuliani is successful here?
JORDAN: No. This just feels like this was kind of part of his fundraising tactics, right, to get his legal bills paid. I mean, a couple of things in terms of the Meadows' --
COOPER: I am not sure bouillabaisse is the most relatable word he could have used, but --
JORDAN: The words to use, right? I mean, look, this is just another tactic by Giuliani just to try to act like that what's happening here is not legitimate and that is not the case.
But one of the things they all need to be very careful about in terms of their statements, whether you saw John Eastman giving an interview on Fox, and he basically admitted some stuff, you know, in that interview, but even with respect to Giuliani at all, the statements that they're making, they are subject to the bond conditions, right?
And so whenever they make statements about other witnesses, or anybody who may be called in this case, for example, like Governor Kemp, you know, at any point in time, the prosecutor can go to the judge and say, look, they violated their bond conditions, and then those folks could ultimately end up in Fulton County with respect to Rice Street Jail. COOPER: Jen Jordan, Jessica Roth, Jen Rodgers, thank you.
As for what the former president makes of all this, he is due to speak shortly in Rapid City, South Dakota. CNN's Kyung Lah is there for us right now. Have you heard anything from the former president about the judge's decision on Meadows?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not exactly. We are expecting, though, that he will be taking the stage just in the next hour or two. And we fully expect that we'll be listening to see specifically if he talks about the Mark Meadows' decision today.
Now, as Paula was just reporting to you, Anderson. Certainly, his lawyers have indicated that he is going to try to move it and seek removal to federal court, but whether or not those minor details actually happen, for the people in this very large stadium who are waiting for Trump to speak, it doesn't matter to them politically. What they want to hear is the fight, Anderson.
I can just scan the room here and I can see multiple people wearing his mugshot as a source of pride. So what they want from him tonight --
COOPER: I'm sorry, is that the "Phantom of the Opera" soundtrack playing?
LAH: It is indeed. We've heard Bocelli, we've heard Sinead O'Connor. It's been a different sort of playlist this evening, but yes, actually.
COOPER: I'm sure, Sinead O'Connor would have been thrilled to hear that. I think we're going to have to go because the sound is sort of overpowering. But yes, Kyung Lah, thanks very much.
Some political perspective. Now with us, CNN special correspondent, Jamie Gangel joins us, also CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, Paul Begala.
So Jamie, I know you've spoken -- you really can't make this stuff up.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: I am so back with "Phantom of the Opera" and bouillabaisse, but sorry.
COOPER: He could have said a amuse-bouche, that would have been more relatable. It just doesn't say much.
So I know, you've spoken to three former White House chiefs-of-staff about the argument that Mark Meadows was making on the stand in that hearing to try to get his case moved to federal court that essentially everything he did fit into his role as chief-of-staff. Clearly, the judge did not buy that.
GANGEL: No, the judge didn't buy it and neither did the former chiefs- of-staff. I mean, Paul can address this. I know that we're allowed to swear on cable TV, but to put it politely, the former chiefs of staff that I spoke to laughed, and they said in a million years what he was doing, certainly was political, did not in any way come under what they would call their chief-of-staff duties.
Look, this is the reason and why you see when a president is running for re-election, if you want your chief-of-staff or a Cabinet member or a top official to be part of the campaign, they leave the White House.
[20:15:13]
COOPER: Paul, I mean, so you -- Paul, you obviously agree with that.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I do. You know, President Obama when he was up for re-election, moved to Jack Lew in to be his chief staff. Jack went on to be Treasury secretary. He is now nominated to be ambassador to Israel. He's not a political hack like me. He is a very substantive guy.
I think President Biden is doing the right thing. Jeff Zients is a business person and a management guru. Ron Klain, the president's first chief-of-staff, much more political. Ron has moved out.
Jamie is exactly right, and this a pretty well-trod path here and as always, Mr. Trump seem to have deviated from it.
COOPER: So Paul, in this new CNN poll that was released earlier in the week, broadly speaking, Republicans, Republican-leaning independents say that even if the charges the foreign president is facing across four criminal cases is true, it's not relevant to his fitness for the presidency. Do you see -- I mean, obviously, today's news -- is any amount of news going to have any impact on that?
BEGALA: Nope. Nope. Sorry. It's the most impregnable readout. If they can say bouillabaisse, I can say impregnable readout. It is a brick outhouse. They're never going to penetrate it.
The problem Mr. Trump has though, is independents, right? They don't like this and they do think that these charges are very serious. But you remember Trump famously said, he was speaking figuratively, he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and not lose any votes.
We don't even mention any more than just four months ago, a jury in New York found him civilly liable for sexually abusing -- sexually abusing a woman on Fifth Avenue, at a department store on Fifth Avenue. So he's been adjudicated for that. He is presumed innocent of these criminal charges.
He is not entitled to that presumption in a civil case that's been adjudicated against him. It didn't move him down to a point even though a court of law found that he sexually abused a woman.
So nothing will change it for that base. The problem is he can get to 45 nationally very easily. It's impossible to get 50. Never once since the day he slithered down that escalator has Donald Trump had 50 percent support in this country, and he'll never get there.
COOPER: Jamie, back on Meadows. I mean, based on all your reporting around the January 6 investigation, what was Meadows doing that's now gotten to him to so much legal peril? I mean, he is really at the center of trying to overturn the election.
GANGEL: Look, he was front and center. He was with Donald Trump. He was speaking to him. He knew what was going on there.
He was setting up meetings. He was having people come in to the White House that White House counsel said had no business being there. In fact, he is the person who set up the call with the Georgia secretary of State. So this is really a problem for him.
When the judge ruled today, this was a bad day for Mark Meadows. And as Paula Reid mentioned earlier, the judge used his own words against him. Taking the stand in this case was, I think, really questionable, at the end of the day, even if they appeal it.
My understanding from talking to legal experts is that this case is likely to stay in Georgia.
COOPER: And so far, Paul, President Biden is -- I mean, he's largely remain silent when it comes to foreign president and these indictments. Do you think that's a sustainable approach? Will he have to weigh in? I mean, do you think it's a good idea?
BEGALA: I think he needs to say absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing.
First off, just constitutionally, he is the president. There are federal charges, not in Georgia, but there are federal charges that he could have some power over, I suppose and it is very important for him to -- by the way, it's exactly what Trump wants, politically, is for Biden to weigh in on this because then he can say, you see, it's a setup, they're coming to get me.
What the president needs to do that he is not doing, the Biden campaign rather, is attack Trump not on the alleged criminality, but on the issues. Wouldn't it be nice if somebody once in a while talked about like jobs, inflation, health care, crime. Let's watch Kyung's reporting tonight. I bet you a dollar, Trump never says a word about any of those issues, it is all going to be about himself and his grievances.
You know, he's Pavarotti before the opera -- mee, mee, mee, mee, mee, mee -- Biden ought to be talking about you, you, you, you.
COOPER: Paul Begala, did you work on that line? Because it is good, I mean --
GANGEL: He did.
BEGALA: Twenty years on the year, Anderson.
COOPER: It is what you do.
BEGALA: By the way, congratulations.
COOPER: Thank you. BEGALA: It's like dog years. As the guy who used to co-host this show on this network, every year is like seven, so you've been there 140 years.
COOPER: There's a musical theme throughout 360 tonight because of our 20th anniversary, I guess. Paul Begala, thank you. Jamie Gangel as well.
Coming up next, reaction From constitutional scholar, Laurence Tribe who is advocating for keeping Meadows' former boss, Donald Trump, off the 2024 ballot under provisions of the 14th Amendment.
Later, the bodycam video that convinced authorities to charge a Philadelphia police officer now with murder.
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[20:23:48]
COOPER: We just got Mark Meadows his first public reaction to a judge's denial of his request to have his Georgia case moved to federal court, it comes in the form of an appeal, which he just filed to the US 11th circuit court of appeals as we were just talking about.
Perspective now from Harvard Constitutional Law professor, Laurence Tribe, co-author of "To End a Presidency: The Power of Impeachment."
Professor Tribe, first of all your reaction to Meadows' plan to appeal this ruling.
LAURENCE TRIBE, PROFESSOR, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Well, I'm glad he appealed quickly, because it will make it easier for the 11th circuit to rule against him quickly. There is no serious basis from the appeal. The judge's 49-page opinion, Judge Jones' very carefully reasoned, but the basis of it is essentially that it is not part of the executive function of the president or his chief-of-staff to try to meddle in a state election especially to overturn it and deprive the citizens of the state of their representation. So I don't think the appeal will succeed.
It will get a little bit of delay, but I think the appeal will fail. The US Supreme Court will probably deny review and then what started in Georgia will stay in Georgia.
COOPER: Do you think that the ruling has any ramifications for whether or not the former president might be successful in moving his case to federal court? Because obviously, the issues involved for him are different than Meadows.
[20:25:05]
TRIBE: Different, but if anything, they're worse. Meadows could at least say, look, I was just doing my job following the president around and doing his bidding.
The president's job is not to overturn an election in Georgia. If you read the opinion, it's pretty clear even though the judge is not prejudging any other motion to remove, when the president moves in the federal court, to lift the case out of Georgia, he's going to be riding coattails that have already been shown not to get anywhere. I don't think he'll succeed either.
COOPER: You, along with a number of conservative legal scholars believe that the 14th Amendment's ban on secessionist holding public office should apply to the former president. There is a suit in Colorado, as you know, filed by a watchdog group just on Wednesday backing that idea.
The former president's legal team today filed a motion to move that case to federal court. Should this be decided by each state or by federal courts? I mean, this a federal constitutional issue?
TRIBE: Well, I think it's pretty clear that it should and will be decided by the state court. In fact, about 15 minutes ago, the plaintiffs in that case filed an unopposed motion, not even opposed by the president to send it back to state court. Because in this case, there is no jurisdiction in the federal court.
It's a suit by a group of voters who have standing under Colorado law, but not under federal law, under federal standards, it would be outside the jurisdiction of an Article III court to resolve it. And under US 28 US Code Section 1447 (c), I think it is, the court has no discretion but to remand it, and that's exactly what I think is going to happen.
So this case will be tried in state court. The case brought to disqualify the president.
COOPER: So this is not something you think that would end up in the Supreme Court?
TRIBE: It will end up there, because when the ruling is finally made against the president, as it could well be, then the president would certainly have standing to seek review.
One way or another, whether from Colorado, which is the strongest of these suits so far, or from some other state, it'll reach the Supreme Court, it'll really have no choice, but to decide, and that really is the main point that Judge Luttig and I and some others have been making, and that is, clearly the plain language of the 14th Amendment applies here.
Because it says that anybody who takes an oath to uphold the Constitution, and then basically turns against the Constitution and tries to overturn it in an insurrection or by giving aid and comfort, can't hold office again.
There are a lot of disqualifications out there, like you know, a lot of other, you know, quite popular people like Bill Clinton or Barack Obama or George W. Bush. They can't run for another reason. They've already won twice. This guy perhaps is disqualified under this provision. Either way, when there is a constitutional disqualification, it's irresponsible to say, well, it's politically unrealistic to exclude someone so popular. Politics is not the end of the game.
The Constitution means something and has to be taken seriously.
COOPER: And how long a process --
TRIBE: The US Supreme Court might not agree, might ultimately say, yes, the Constitution must be taken seriously, but it doesn't apply here. We'll have to wait and see.
COOPER: How long a process for it ultimately to get to the Supreme Court? I mean, I don't know if there's any way to tell that.
TRIBE: I think it could get there before the Republican Convention. Because I think it's extremely important and the Supreme Court will recognize it is extremely important that it be resolved in connection with the primaries. It really would be a constitutional mess for the nominee of one of the major parties to be excluded from the ballot.
He is going to be excluded. He needs to be excluded before the Republican Convention picks a nominee, and I think that's why this case is going to move really very speedily to the US Supreme Court.
COOPER: Laurence Tribe, it is always good to have you. Thank you.
TRIBE: Thank you, Anderson, and congratulations.
COOPER: Oh, thanks so much.
Coming up, a Philadelphia official today released this bodycam video showing the moments leading up to a deadly police shooting in a traffic stop last month. The officer involved has been charged with murder. The video raises serious questions about whether police initially lied about what happened, next.
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[20:30:12]
COOPER: Tonight, a Philadelphia police officer has posted bail as he faces several charges including murder for the deadly shooting of this man last month. The charges come as officials today released the body cam footage showing the incident. The video also contradicts what police initially said led to the shooting.
CNN's Omar Jimenez has the latest. We want to warn you some of the video you're about to see is disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It began when Philadelphia Police say they saw a man driving erratically and going the wrong way down a one-way street. They catch up with the car that was now parked and all it took was a few seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show me your hands. (BLEEP) shoot you.
(GUNSHOTS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 413, shots fired, shots fired. (inaudible)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible)
JIMENEZ: Six shots were fired, Eddie Irizarry was later pronounced dead.
But what you just saw is not what police initially said happened. They said they encountered Irizarry outside the car, and that they told him to drop his weapon before he lunged at the officers. But as video shows, the driver's side door never even opens.
The department's police chief did correct their initial account two days after the shooting once they saw the body camera video. The officer who pulled the trigger, Mark Dial, was charged with murder. He turned himself in.
LARRY KRASNER, PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I don't think we're saying anything more than the obvious when we say that firing six consecutive charges at close range is strongly supportive, together with other evidence, of all of these charges. In my opinion, it's not even really a discussion.
[20:35:01]
JIMENEZ: An attorney for Dial though wants that discussion.
BRIAN MCMONAGLE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: As Officer Dial is firing, he's taking retreat. He's trying to retreat and trying to find cover, because he believes the individual has a gun. In no world is those facts murder.
JIMENEZ: No gun is visible in the body camera footage, but prosecutors did say Irizarry was holding a small open folding knife against his thigh, behind what we see on video was a rolled up window.
Here's one of the responding officers explaining on the scene what he did say to Officer Mark Dial about Irizarry in those final seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mark comes on the driver's side, I'm over here. I tried to lure him but I can't. He pulls out a knife. I told Mark, Mark, Mark, he's got a knife. He's got a knife. As I guess he like I couldn't really see it. I looked up to Mark. I saw his body come up like this and then Mark fired.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Omar Jimenez joining me now. What's the victim's family saying?
JIMENEZ: Well, one of Eddie Irizarry on saying that while this video breaks her heart and that it's taken a lot of strength for her and the family to actually watch it, they wanted this video to be seen. And to use her words, they needed the world to see this, especially because of how wrong police got it in the initial phases of this.
And the district attorney, over the course of the press conference, they stressed that the family got to see this video first. They had multiple discussions with them beforehand. And they wanted to make sure that it was put out with their --
COOPER: How was -- how was it possible that the police got it so wrong in the initial days in the first two days? I mean, they said he was on the street and that that's where the alter -- an altercation took place.
JIMENEZ: Well, and that's the thing. It's not -- it's not like there was one minor discrepancy.
COOPER: Right.
JIMENEZ: It paints two completely different versions of what happened. And we've seen it in other cases too. In George Floyd, there was an initial case that came up by police. And then what we saw on video is different.
In Chicago with --
COOPER: (inaudible) there's anything else than mistruth, a lie about the initial encounter?
JIMENEZ: Exactly. And it was those days later that the police chief came out and said, well, now that we've seen the body camera video, it's a -- it's a different picture than what we saw initially. But they had to have known that this video was going to get out and maybe that was them trying to get ahead of it and, you know, at least try to put their accuracy on it.
But at the time, and those initial moments, that's when it's most precious for these family members to get information and the pictures of what they said versus what we saw on video completely different.
COOPER: Omar Jimenez, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Coming up next, tonight, the anniversary of this broadcast. It's been 20 years tonight, 360 has been on the air. Coming up, some of the most remarkable moments we've witnessed in that time from Hurricane Katrina.
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MARY LANDRIEU, FORMER SENATOR OF THE UNITED STATES: -- to keep FEMA --
COOPER: Excuse me, Senator.
LANDRIEU: -- and the Red Cross up and operating.
COOPER: Excuse me, Senator. I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that because for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: To the earthquake in Haiti.
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COOPER: A young boy has hit in the head. That's him there on the ground, captured on my TV camera. If he stays there, he might get killed. I picked him up and carried him to the barricade.
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COOPER: And serious moments moving moments in some ridiculous ones as well.
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COOPER: (LAUGHS) All right. Sorry. (LAUGHS)
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[20:40:19]
COOPER: Well, 20 years ago on this night, I anchor my first broadcast with 360. And it's been 31 years since I shot my first story. And since then, I've worked in more than 70 countries around the world, seeing things I could never have imagined and spoken to extraordinary people often in very dangerous and difficult circumstances.
It has been an incredible honor to do this job and to work with such a talented team of dedicated journalists here at CNN.
Tonight, because it is the actual anniversary, I wanted to take some time and pull together some of the most memorable moments from the last 20 years, starting with this night 20 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: And a good evening to you. Thanks for joining us. I'm Anderson Cooper. Welcome to our debut hour. We're following a number of developments for you tonight.
Tonight, from Port-au-Prince.
In Cairo, a day of dramatic developments.
We are in the city of Manaus which is really in the heart of the Amazon.
We are live tonight from Baghdad. Live in New Orleans.
There is desperation and there is danger in the city of New Orleans tonight. And what you are about to see in this next hour is going to shock you that this is taking place in the United States of America in this day and age.
People stuck in their homes right now, no electricity, no ice, nothing cool to drink. They don't know where to go. They don't know what to do. And they don't really have any information.
LANDRIEU: I want to thank Senator Frist and Senator Reid for their extraordinary efforts, Anderson, tonight. I don't know if you've heard, maybe you all have announced it. But Congress is going to an unprecedented session to pass a $10 billion supplemental bill tonight to keep FEMA --
COOPER: Excuse me, Senator.
LANDRIEU: -- and the Red Cross up and operating.
COOPER: Excuse me, Senator. I'm sorry for interrupting. I haven't heard that. Because for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset and very angry and very frustrated.
And when they hear politician slap, you know, thanking one another, it just -- you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now, because literally, there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours and there's not enough facilities to take her up.
Do you -- do you get the anger that is out here?
Good evening, I'm Anderson Cooper in Maradi, Niger. Starving in plain sight. The food crisis in Niger. That's exactly what is happening here, a crisis. A food shortage likes which this country has rarely seen.
The level of everyday violence here in the Democratic Republic of Congo has been simply unfathomable over the last several years. Guns and machetes, of course, are common. But the most ruthless weapon that has been used here is rape.
[20:45:08]
People in the neighborhood just point fingers and say, you're a raped woman and you're infected with AIDS.
She and her children have been living here in Goma for the last five months. Angela (ph) would like to be able to return to her home village, but that's simply impossible. The men who raped her are likely still living in the area. They, of course, have never been brought to justice.
Run away to sue General Laurent Nkunda. He's a rebel commander with several thousand troops. So far, he's been unwilling to give up his weapons. He's been accused of a host of war crimes and human rights violations. His troops are known to have looted villages, raped women. He's been accused of ordering the summary executions of dozens of prisoners.
The Congolese government issued an international arrest warrant for him. But so far, it seems no one's been able or willing to apprehend him.
When a U.S. military helicopter headed toward a forward operating base in eastern Afghanistan along the Pakistan border.
We're actually now just getting some fire. Some rockets have been fired.
We're coming to you tonight live from Gaza City where today, we have seen continued violence.
Also two media centers built. That was a rather large explosion.
We've come to Iraq this week along with a platoon of CNN producers and correspondents to look at exactly what is happening here on the military and the political fronts.
Before we go on this journey, we're giving warnings about what to do if we're hit by an IED, by grenades or by small arms fire.
The security situation where we are has changed somewhat in the last 30 minutes or so. We've been advised to actually turn off our lights, get down on the floor, and try to barricade ourselves in the area that we're in.
So that's what -- that's why we're doing this program like this tonight. It's not going to look very good over the next hour. But I hope you bear with us because what has happened today in Egypt, on these streets, has been nothing short of extraordinary.
My cameraman, Neil Holdsworth (ph), and my producer Marianne Fox (ph) and I were heading toward Liberation Square in order to report on both sides of the protests. Some of the men jumped out of the crowd and tried to grab Neil's camera. That's when all hell broke loose. People started throwing punches, pushing us around, screaming at us.
We immediately decided to turn around and try to get to a safe location. Several Egyptian men helped us, but still the crowd follow, throwing punches. That man there had a knife in his hand.
(inaudible) trying to punch us. We only had about a block left to go when another guy came up and punch me in the head.
I've been hit now like 10 times. The Egyptian soldiers, they do nothing.
Finally, we reached the safe location.
Where's Lia (ph)? Where's Lia?
All we were trying to do today was report on both sides of this conflict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're saying that this there's two teams now that are inside the mine. They've made their way about 4,800 feet towards the trapped workers.
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Charlie, Charlie, we got to come back -- come back to us. Wait, wait. Come here. What's happening?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's only one -- there's only one made it out alive.
COOPER: You were inside the church?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we're inside the church and --
COOPER: And you said there's fist fighting now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are screaming, you're a liar. You've lied to us.
COOPER: Wait. Come over here, please. Stand over here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been misinformation and it's awful.
COOPER: And you kids were in the church too?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
COOPER: And you heard this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We tried to run away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We -- I took the kids. And we ran out the church as fast as we can there.
COOPER: I can hear yelling now over the church.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. They're screaming and yelling and the police are in a big brawl. And it's a -- I don't know how something like this can happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
COOPER: We're here tonight from Port-au-Prince, Haiti, the epicenter of this horrible earthquake which has struck here more than 24 hours ago. Our correspondents have fanned out throughout the port of -- port city of Port-au-Prince throughout this day, bringing you the latest information as we have seen it through our eyes and as the Haitian people are experiencing it every minute. Wherever you are watching this broadcast throughout the world, I hope you can hug a loved one close and thank God that you are not in Port- au-Prince tonight.
Monley Lise (ph) was brought to general hospital by his uncle, who says he found him in the rubble alive after nearly eight days. Monley was covered in dust, weak, and limp. A doctor and a nurse quickly gave him an IV.
[20:50:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said he feel good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's already looking better since he's gotten here. He might have some complications, but he's got a very good chance of survival.
COOPER: And joining us now is Monley. We're very happy to have him here. And registered nurse, Gabriela McAdoo (ph) who's from Stanford Hospital in California.
When I first saw him this morning, I didn't recognize him on this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's -- he -- he's hydrated now. And when we first got him, he was dehydrated. So we gave him some fluids. And after eating and drinking, he just -- his progress is great.
Two hours ago or so when you guys heard distinctive tapping, is it possible that was just ambient noise?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It very well could have been.
COOPER: The other possibility is that a person expires that they tap at one point and then they're no longer able to?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is true. This is we're four days into it without food or water. And we're talking about possibly a 10-year-old girl. And there's only -- every human has their limits.
COOPER: Their last hope is to lower several microphones in different parts of the building.
They've now placed four microphones in separate locations on the ground floor in the rubble. This is a critical moment. If they hear something, they'll continue working. If they don't get any response, they're going to stop the operation.
In the movies, this is when a small sound would be heard, a faint tap, a child's cry, but this is Haiti, and this is real. And despite their best hopes, they hear no sound of life.
You can just see a chunk of concrete or rock thrown by one of the looters from the roof. A young boy's hit in the head. That's him there on the ground captured on my TV camera. If he stays there, he might get killed. I picked him up and carried him to the barricade. Blood is pouring from his head. He's clearly stoned and can't walk. Come here. Come here.
I hand him over the barricade.
A massacre that happened in a gay nightclub just a block from where I'm standing just down that road, two nights ago. There were more than a list of names. There are people who loved and were loved. There are people with families and friends and dreams.
He was incredibly lucky to have you as a mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was -- my luck started when I gave birth to my son.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She'd been wanting a phone for so long. And we finally got it for her. And she just tried to call the police.
COOPER: She tried -- she actually tried to call.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I got confirmation from two of the students in her classroom that she was just trying to call the authorities. And I guess he did shot her.
How you look at his girl and shoot her?
COOPER: I cannot believe that Texas officials, from the governor on down, are just now silent. No, there's no new information coming out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just not the way you do these investigations or how you give information. They should have given us a full briefing from the beginning. You know, that's how they do things into these shootings, you get a briefing.
COOPER: Right. And it's -- and it's not just reports, it's the grieving families who want to know why their children dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure they have ever told the families exactly what happened here.
COOPER: Keeping them honest, keeping them honest, keeping them honest, keeping them honest, keeping them honest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is happening.
COOPER: Where? Give me some evidence. Tell me one person at one Tera (ph) baby that's been born. Can you tell me?
You were telling people that this cures COVID, you have no studies to prove it. And you're saying a thousand people were tested, but where?
Come on.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I thought it was funnny. She's a pretty woman.
COOPER: You're running for President of the United. TRUMP: Excuse me. I didn't start it. I didn't start it.
COOPER: But, sir, with all due respect, that's the argument of a 5- year-old.
TRUMP: I didn't start it.
COOPER: This is pretty much the strangest discriminant (ph) I've ever had. Nobody laughed.
Presents. Up next -- oh, thank you. Appreciate it. Very nice. Very funny. I've been having bunny jokes around the office for several weeks now. So these carrots are -- appreciate it.
This brings us to tonight's edition of, things I'd never thought I'd say. Mike and Ike do not exist. They are not real people. They are candy. And as such, do not possess genitals.
[20:55:05]
Now, also, just for the record, Sour Patch Kids are not real kids. Starburst don't have real stars in them. And there isn't an actual ranch where the Jolly Rancher works.
Last night on a flight from Paris to Dublin, Depardieu reportedly peed on the floor. Now, all I can say is they should thank their lucky stars it wasn't Departwo (ph). Sorry. It made me giggle every time I read it. He hasn't commented on this incident. (LAUGHS) Departwo. I know you got it but. (LAUGHS)
All right. Sorry. (LAUGHS) Sorry. This is actually never happened to me. I just got to let it out. Just got to let it out.
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COOPER: I am truly grateful for the opportunity that I'm giving each night and I strive to get better every single day. And I want to thank you all for watching all these years. And I'm certainly grateful for all the men and women who put this program together and who dedicate their lives at CNN to telling the stories that matter.
That's it for me tonight. The news continues. Have a great weekend. I'll see you Monday. "THE SOURCE TONIGHT WITH BRIANNA KEILAR" starts in a moment.
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