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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

One-On-One With Rep. Nancy Pelosi; Pelosi On Prospect Of Second Trump Term; Pelosi On Her Decision To Seek Re-election; Escaped Murderer In Pennsylvania Captured After 13-Day Manhunt; Pennsylvania Inmate Who Escaped Prison Charged With Felony Escape, Bail Denied; Putin, Kim Meet As U.S. Warns Russia Seeking Arms Deal; Northern Libya Devastated By Floods, Morgues Overwhelmed; New England Bracing For Hurricane Lee. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired September 13, 2023 - 20:00   ET


ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And in some states like California, New York, New Mexico, and Maryland, legislation there has been passed that either bans or limits the use of wage garnishment to collect unpaid medical debt. But in the state of Arkansas, that kind of legislation, Erin does not exist.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Ed, thank you very much. And thank you so much for making sure everyone is aware of that story.

Thanks to all of you for being with us.

AC 360 begins right now.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360: The former Speaker of the House and the current Speaker of the House, my exclusive conversation with now Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi about Kevin McCarthy's new impeachment probe, President Biden running for re-election in his age, and she at hers.

Also tonight, how a fugitive killer was finally cornered then caught two frightening weeks after he broke out of prison and why it took so long.

Plus, why are these two smiling? And should the rest of the world be worried in the wake of Kim Jong-un and Vladimir Putin's meeting?

Good evening. Thanks for joining us.

We begin tonight with the first interview with Congresswoman and former Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi since the man who succeeded her in the Speaker's chair, Kevin McCarthy opened an impeachment inquiry into President Biden.

Congresswoman Pelosi was of course a polarizing figure when speaker, but someone who even her opponents at the time conceded was remarkably good and effective at getting things done.

That's in contrast tonight to McCarthy who is grappling to get anything done, the most urgent of which is passing a series of short term budget measures in time to head off a government shutdown.

One of them a defense bill stalled today for lack of support, prompting a Republican lawmaker to tell CNN: "If you can't pass Defense, you can't pass any of them." So far, Speaker McCarthy cannot nor can he seem to bring Republican hardliners who he needs to pass legislation on board, not even after giving them some of what they wanted yesterday on impeachment without bringing it to the floor for a vote, which is something McCarthy said he wouldn't do just a week ago. Here he is yesterday justifying the move.


REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Nancy Pelosi has changed the rules of the House. We're just following -- how are you sir, good to see you.

We are just following through.


COOPER: I asked former Speaker Pelosi about that this afternoon.


COOPER: Thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.


COOPER: Twelve days ago, Speaker McCarthy told Breitbart, if we move forward with impeachment inquiry, it would occur through a vote on the floor of the People's House and not through a declaration by one person. Why do you think he flip-flopped?

PELOSI: Because, probably, he didn't have the votes. That's one reason you don't bring a bill to the floor.

When we had the impeachment of President Trump, it followed the phone call and all the rest of that the whistleblower revealed and then I had a conversation with him, and so we moved forward, collecting information to be prepared to bring a bill to the floor. He's saying, Nancy didn't a vote, no, we did.

COOPER: Yes, but you did five weeks later. You brought the bill up for a vote. He is actually -- he does, he cites you, he is doing what he once criticized you for doing, criticized you for not initially having a vote.

Now, he says Nancy Pelosi has changed the rules of the House, we're just following through

PELOSI: No, it was -- not true. We had a few weeks where we had to make our case. And I assigned six committee chairs to get the information and the rest in that, then we've prepared us to bring the bill to the floor.

They've had what? Nine months of collecting information, they have nothing and -- COOPER: Because the Trump Department of Justice ruling that because you hadn't brought it to a vote that the White House didn't need to cooperate or the White House said that they didn't need to cooperate. That's now something that this White House could choose to do.

PELOSI: That's right.

COOPER: Would you recommend this White House not cooperate?

PELOSI: Well, it's not a question not cooperate, it is a question of follow the law. We were planning to bring it to the floor, but we want it to be ready and member impact -- member impact, the seven heartbeats, remember? And so we read it.

In the meantime, the Trump administration, and the Justice Department said unless there's a bill on the floor, the administration does not have to answer to subpoenas and that is the law, that became the law and it is the law now.

So the administration can respond or not, but they don't have to.

COOPER: Do you see some irony in this? The first impeachment of the former president was because of that phone call he had with President Zelenskyy pressuring him to launch an investigation into President Biden in order to smear him.

Zelenskyy resisted that. Kevin McCarthy is doing what Zelenskyy refused to do. He has given in and is pursuing an investigation.

PELOSI: Yes, and it is most unfortunate, because impeachment is something that our founders put in the Constitution. They foresaw that there could be a rogue executive, a president. That is there for a reason.


And you have to have your case. Why are you doing this and does it qualify -- meet the standards for impeachment?

With President Trump, it was very clear that he had engaged in actions and activity in that phone call that really were --

COOPER: Despite months of investigation, and Republicans have yet to find any evidence --

PELOSI: That's right.

COOPER: Implicating then Vice President Biden in his son's affairs. I mean, McCarthy is saying this just an inquiry, is it inevitable that it will be an impeachment?

PELOSI: Well, I think that really is more of a matter of the politics of the Republican caucus, that you have to impeach the president or else you're going to vacate the chair of Speaker. You can't -- you have to shut down government or else we're going to vacate the chairs.

This is not responsible governance, but it's the chaos on the Republican side.

COOPER: The threats that Speaker McCarthy that you're just referencing experiencing from his right flank, is it that what's driving him or is it the former president? I mean, CNN has reported he and Elise Stefanik have spoken about impeachment. Marjorie Taylor Greene says that she had told "The New York Times" she had dinner with him in Bedminster, spoke about the impeachment with him.

Is he the one sort of pulling the strings on this?

PELOSI: Well, he is and he is shining a light on the strings, as I'm fond of saying.

COOPER: He is shedding the light on the string.

PELOSI: Yes. Thank you very much, Mr. President. But they're connected. Yes, the former president is exerting his influence, and the others are following up on it. So they're not two separate things.

Is it the members of this committee or is it the president? It's the president and the members of the Republican caucus.

COOPER: Is it an impossible situation that Speaker McCarthy has put himself in order to get power?

PELOSI: Yes, I think it is an ever -- incredibly shrinking speakership.

COOPER: That's what it has become.

PELOSI: Yes. I mean, it became that the first night when he had to make all of these pledges, promises to become speaker. Really, it isn't worth it to be speaker to abdicate that much jurisdiction over the House.

COOPER: If there was a second Trump term, what would that actually look like? Because the former president said just the other day, he said, if elected again, he would tell his attorney general to indict his political opponents.

PELOSI: Look, let's not engage in nightmare scenarios.

COOPER: It is a potentially a very realistic scenario.

PELOSI: No. Well, who am I to say? I never thought he would be elected the first time. Who would vote for such a person who said such horrible things about women and the rest?

COOPER: You told a reporter from "New York" Magazine a couple of weeks ago that you think it would be a criminal enterprise in the White House.

PELOSI: Yes, I do. I definitely do. I mean, you just described what -- you've just described it.

COOPER: That's really what you think a second Trump term would be? PELOSI: Yes, a criminal enterprise. He was engaged in one before.

COOPER: An enterprise for his personal gain, or --

PELOSI: Oh, yes. I mean, why would you think that the president of the United States would make his first trip abroad to Saudi Arabia at a time when we're concerned about Khashoggi, we're concerned about so many things, but why would he go to Saudi Arabia first, unless it was something in it for him?

But to say he was -- what was it? What did he say? What did you just say? He was going to indict all of his political opponents?

COOPER: He told a rally that he would tell his attorney general to indict his political opponents. I mean, that's a --

PELOSI: That's a banana republic without the banana. I mean, it's a terrible thing. It's a terrible thing.

But you know, I really think we have to be -- let's be hopeful. We have a great president. He has accomplished so many things. And I take some participation in that, the House and Senate Democrats, and we had some bipartisan victories, too.

COOPER: And yet, with all of those accomplishments, you look at national polls, many different national polls, and essentially, I mean, it looks to be a very close race between potential matchups between the former president and the current president.

PELOSI: It is mystifying. But again, it has to be communicated more directly what this means to your kitchen table.

Now, polls being polls, in the last election nearly one year ago. You recall it was being reported that we're going to lose by 40 votes, a red wave, a red something -- enchilada or something .

COOPER: Every year, every election we learn the meaninglessness --

PELOSI: And then, it was going to be 30, at the minimum we will win all the spot. Well, in New York we lost five, but we can win those back, but it wasn't what they said it was going to be and you know why? Because we had a contrast.


These members or these candidates subscribe to an anti-woman's right to choose, anti-gun violence prevention, anti-climate issues, anti- democracy -- accepting the democratic result of an election and they paid a price.

COOPER: There were a lot of people even in the Democratic Party who underestimated the impact, the Roe decision would have, the Dobbs decision would have on voters.

PELOSI: Yes, I made it clear to them how I was about that --

COOPER: You knew --

PELOSI: Because they were saying it's in the rearview mirror. People don't care about the Dobbs decision. And I said to them, thanks a lot. Do you know -- you don't really know what you're talking about. You're sitting someplace, and we're in the districts and we know the power of that issue.

It's a democracy issue. It's not just a choice issue. It's a freedom issue. It's a democracy issue. And it was a winning issue.

COOPER: In fact, I remember interviewing you just before the vote, the election and you were saying to me, I'm talking to people out there, I think it's going to be much better. And I can't tell you how many people afterwards said to me like you know, of course she's going to say that --

PELOSI: Poor baby.

COOPER: Yes, she is really, really committed to that. It is really sad.

PELOSI: No, I'm not a poor baby. I'm more reptilian, cold blooded, to win the election.

COOPER: We're going to take a short break. I want to talk to you more about President Biden and some other things.

PELOSI: Thank you.


COOPER: One of those other things is my question to her about the vice president and fellow Californian, Kamala Harris. Her answer might surprise you.



COOPER: Before we get back to my exclusive conversation with House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi, one quick note, on 2012 Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, the Utah Senator today announced his retirement and had this to say about the upcoming House impeachment inquiry.


SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): I haven't heard any allegation of something that would rise to the level of a high crime or misdemeanor. I think it'd be very unusual to actually see a referral of impeachment.

I don't expect that to happen.


COOPER: Senator Romney voted twice to convict the former president. Today, called on both him and President Biden to drop out in the 2024 race.


ROMNEY: I think it'd be a great thing if both President Biden and former President Trump were to stand aside and let their respective party pick someone in the next generation.

President Trump -- excuse me, President Biden, when he was running said he was a transitional figure to the next generation. Well, time to transition.

David Ignatius this morning made a strong argument that we should see that kind of a change. I think both parties would be far better served if they were going to be represented by people, other than those of us from the Baby Boom generation.


COOPER: With that on the table, here's part two of my conversation with Speaker Pelosi starting with the choice she made.


COOPER: I want to talk about your decision to seek re-election. What was the motivating factor? What was the final decision?

PELOSI: Well, the motivating factor -- and then there were some other considerations, but for 20 years, my district has given me the latitude to be the speaker or the leader. That means for 20 years, I had to be responsible for everything on the floor of the House. It was about raising money to win the elections, it was -- I went to 87 countries, I am the first leader, in, I don't know how long that ever even had a security credential who rose to the heights of speaker or leader in the Congress.

So I had a global and national set of responsibilities and of course, my domestic ones. I say to the members, whatever honors, you may have given me to be speaker, leader, whip, whatever, there is no honor greater to me than just walk on that floor and think that I am sent there by the people of San Francisco to speak for them. So that was my central point.

In addition to that, I have some political responsibility, I am determined that we will win the House, President Biden will win the White House and that we will increase our numbers in the Senate --

COOPER: If the former president wasn't seeking re-election, do you think you would have been as determined to seek re-election?

PELOSI: Well, I don't even know who they're going to nominate. Do you think they'll nominate a twice impeached, once defeated and multi- indicted person to be president of the United States?

COOPER: Do you believe he will actually -- any of these cases will actually be adjudicated before --

PELOSI: I have no idea. I know nothing. I keep my distance from the courts and what they're doing there. I don't even ask the question.

COOPER: There's obviously -- look, even among very loyal Democrats, there's a lot of concerns about the president. Is he the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump? The best candidate to defeat any of the Republicans who are running right now?

PELOSI: I think so. Yes, President Biden has -- he has great experience and wisdom. He's been at this for a long time, as you know, as a senator, vice president, and now president.

He has a vision for our country. This is about fairness and justice and addressing the kitchen table issues of America's working families. He has that vision.

He knows why he wants to be president and he is president. He has knowledge of the issues and therefore judgment to be respected and wisdom that he brings to the table.

COOPER: So why is there such concern among a lot of Democrats about him?

PELOSI: Well, I travel a bit in those circles of Democrats, nationally and politically and while there may be some concerns, everybody is for him. Overwhelmingly, everybody is for him.

COOPER: Do you think there's any chance he does not continue running?

PELOSI: I hope not. I hope not. I mean, this president --

COOPER: David Ignatius recently came out saying he thinks the former president should not run.

PELOSI: Yes, so that's one and he also said he shouldn't run because he allowed me to go to Taiwan. Nobody allows me to do anything, I was Speaker of the House and the invitation came from the Taiwan government for me to go there. It wasn't up to David Ignatius as to whether that will happen.

COOPER: Is Vice President Kamala Harris the best running mate for this president?

PELOSI: He thinks so and that's what matters. And by the way --

COOPER: Do you think so?

PELOSI: She is very politically astute. I don't think people give her enough credit. She is of course values-based, consistent with the president's values and the rest and people don't understand, she is politically astute.


Why would she be vice president if she were not. But when she was running for attorney general in California, she had six percent in the polls, six percent in the polls, and she politically astutely made her case about why she would be good, did her politics and became attorney general.

So don't -- people shouldn't underestimate what Kamala Harris brings to the table.

COOPER: But do you think she is the best running mate though?

PELOSI: She is the vice president of the United States. Some people say to me, well, why isn't she doing this or that? I say, because she's the vice president. That's the job description. You don't do that much, you know. You're a source of strength, inspiration, intellectual resource, and the rest and you -- and she -- I think she's represented our country very well at home and abroad.

COOPER: In terms of just our democracy, I mean, how -- where are you in the spectrum of concern --

PELOSI: Okay, you go ahead. Here is where I am. I think nothing less is at stake than our democracy in this election. Now, you've heard me say before, this is the most important election of our time, we all say that. It is shot, because it is, and it just keeps to be more so.

But I'm writing a book now where I'm thinking about calling it and our flag is still there and why I say that, it is being born and raised in Baltimore, where the national anthem was written, people tear at the end of the national anthem, but I cheer when it says, prove through the night, that our flag was still there.

We have to prove since the night that we're in the uncertainty of this election, that our flag is still there, with liberty and justice for all, as we pledge every day, and I think that is what is at stake, nothing less than our democracy.

And again, you hear that in the country, you hear that globally and we have to remove all doubt that our democracy is strong. Never underestimate the strength of our democracy and the goodness of the American people honoring the values of our founders, the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform, and the aspirations of our children.

COOPER: Speaker Pelosi, thank you for your time.

PELOSI: My pleasure. Thank you.


COOPER: So we covered a lot of ground, plenty to talk about now with CNN's Audie Cornish, host of "The Assignment" Podcast, also CNN senior political commentator, Adam Kinzinger, former Republican congressman from Illinois, and member of the House, January 6 Select Committee.

Audie, what stood out to you?

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, she's not an easy interview. So I did admire, you know, as you tried to get her to be very specific in certain answers.

What stood out to me, though, certainly was her answer about Kamala Harris. First of all --

COOPER: She didn't say yes.

CORNISH: She didn't. Well, she said it was Biden's decision. And more importantly, she actually offered like a nugget of defense of Vice President Harris, which is like she is politically astute. And if there's one thing about Nancy Pelosi, she respects wins. That's what she always brought to the caucus. That's the energy she brings to things.

And she very much said, look, this person can do it, okay. Don't underestimate them and she didn't have to save that. There's lots of people who have been kind of squirrely in their answers, and she wasn't.

COOPER: Congressman Kinzinger, I referred to David Ignatius' "Washington Post" op-ed today with Speaker Pelosi, Ignatius arguing the President Biden should not run again. He said, I think Biden risk undoing his greatest achievement, which was stopping Trump. Do you think Joe Biden can beat Donald Trump again?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, he can. I mean, it is a risk and it is a risk and a decision that my Democratic friends have to make? Because if you have a I don't mean this pejoratively, but kind of a McConnell moment where he freezes or seems to be thinking slowly, that is going to be the number one issue Republicans run on.

I mean, you already hear, you know, some presidential candidates saying it's really a run against Kamala Harris, and so I do think it's a risk Democrats take, but I don't want to take away from the fact that, look, I may disagree with Joe Biden on a lot of issues, but he has been quite effective.

I mean, he has really passed -- you think about passing the CHIPS Act, which I think I was the only Republican to actually vote for, his infrastructure bill. I didn't vote for and didn't agree with the Inflation Reduction Act, but that was still a big accomplishment on his end.

And if you look at the bipartisan achievements, he has a lot to brag about. The problem right now, Anderson, if I was a Democratic strategist is saying we have to get that message out. That is not the job of the media, it is not the job of anybody, but the candidate to get that message out. I know they're going to try, but I think that's the risk they run ultimately.

But he has every right to run again. He's got another term left in him, but it is a concern for him.

COOPER: Do you think -- I mean -- go ahead.

CORNISH: Anderson, I just want to add one more thing there. You know, one of the things about having this conversation is we're frequently having it in isolation, but the truth is this conversation will be very different depending on what the economy is doing at that time. [20:25:07]

If there's a foreign policy crisis, if there's some sort of issue with the vice president. There are many other things that can contribute to what people perceive as competence or not competence.

You know, if you think back to John McCain running for president, the way he approached the economy at that time, as it was cratering, did not instill confidence. So then, of course, the age thing did become more of a factor.

And I think sometimes it's very easy to do a kind of parlor game of Washington of like, should he-should he not, should he-should do not when the fact is, it is really about what the performance will be when the time comes.

COOPER: Which is what -- I mean, that's what the risk is involved. Nobody knows what the issue will be at the time and whether he --

CORNISH: And we are trying to create a risk for Joe Biden with this particular issue, I think in the way that the media is talking about it.

Obviously, the former president has a lot of risks as well. His just happened to be legal. We're not offering the voters necessarily an ideal choice, you know, in terms of like candidates who are any younger, or don't have very specific baggage.

COOPER: Congressman Kinzinger, you know, you talk about Joe Biden's accomplishments. When you look at what the Republicans in the House have accomplished. I mean, what stands out? Are their real accomplishments to look at?

I mean, because so many ran on, you know, border security. What did they actually done on border security?

KINZINGER: They've done nothing. I mean, I guess they didn't default on debt. That's a good thing. They're about to close down the government. That's not a good thing. So I don't know.

I mean, I think it's such a tight majority. But Nancy Pelosi had a really tight majority and was able to achieve a lot of stuff. So look, they're going to turn around and impeach Joe Biden, because -- actually a year ago, I said, they're going to impeach Joe Biden. Why? Because they have to, because of the pressures there.

So that's what they're going to try to run on achievements. It's just it's hard to do. You have a party right now that is so divided, that is so divided against itself that doesn't agree on the outcomes and where they want to go.

So no, there have been no Republican achievements, I guess, maybe stopping some of Joe Biden's priorities.

COOPER: Audie, when the first impeachment of President Trump, when it was announced by then Speaker Pelosi, she said it's not -- you know, this is an inquiry, it is not necessarily going to be an impeachment revolt, a lot of Republicans scoffed at that and said, look, it's like, you know, once you jump out of a plane, you're committed to it.

It's now the flip. Now, the Republicans are saying, well, look, this is -- McCarthy is saying, this just an inquiry, do you think it's inevitable that this leads to impeachment?

CORNISH: I think that impeachment was originally to be considered an extreme sanction on a person at a very important in high office, and that the public has not looked kindly on impeachments that they think are about goosing the polls, or, as Mr. Kinzinger essentially said, trying to create achievement where there is none.

And people have become far more savvy about what impeachment is trying to accomplish or not, and it is doing damage to the process itself.

COOPER: Congressman, you heard Speaker Pelosi say that former President Trump and certain members of the Republican caucus are pulling the strings on impeachment. Is that how you see it?

I mean, obviously, CNN has been reporting, Trump talked to GOP conference chair, Elise Stefanik about this just yesterday.

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, look, I don't think it's necessarily that somebody is pulling the strings. What I have learned is that whenever you have kind of an extreme idea, or a crazy idea that is suggested, that ends up having to happen, because now everybody is kind of compared to the craziest idea.

So I'd go to a Lincoln Day dinner when I was in -- and it's big Republican fundraiser things and you always hear five people that have these crazy theories. And you knew that a year later, when you went back there, everybody would be saying those crazy theories.

So yes, the train is out of the station. They're going to have to try to impeach Joe Biden, regardless of what they come up with. And Anderson, I just want to say to my Democratic friends out there, please don't use this. You have every right to, but don't use this as an excuse to mimic some of these Republican processes because we have to have at least one party that is steadfast holding the standards, holding the democratic principles, small d and saying that impeachment is something only to be used in extreme circumstances.

Democrats have every right to fight fire with fire, but please don't because you right now are the adults trying to hold democracy together.

COOPER: Given your experience in the House, do you think Speaker McCarthy keeps his job?

KINZINGER: I don't know. I mean -- look, he's kind of surprised me a couple of times, like with the debt limit deal and the fact that he actually even got elected as speaker, but I think he's either going to have to completely capitulate to the likes of Matt Gaetz or he will certainly have his job threatened. I would not want to be in the GOP conference right now because I'll tell you what, I was angry at times when we would have these kinds of debates and they've gotten way further down the crazy track than when I was there, so I think he's survives maybe, but maybe not.

COOPER: Adam Kinzinger, thanks. Audie Cornish as well.

Just ahead, new details about how the extensive manhunt for an armed escape murderer ended this morning in Eastern Pennsylvania and I will also talk with the killer's former roommate who was trying to help police in whatever way he could.

We'll be right back.



KINZINGER: would not want to be in the GOP conference right now because, I'll tell you what, I was angry at times when we would have these kinds of debates, and they've gotten way further down the crazy track than when I was there. So


KINZINGER: I think he survives maybe, but maybe not.

COOPER: Adam Kinzinger, thanks, Audie Cornish as well. Just ahead, new details about how the extensive manhunt for an armed escaped murderer ended this morning in Eastern Pennsylvania. And I'll also talk with the killer's former roommate who is trying to help police in whatever way he could. We'll be right back.


COOPER: The 13-day manhunt for an armed escaped murderer whose prison break in Eastern Pennsylvania forced schools to close and left area residents fearful, ended today with his capture. Police described Cavalcante today as defiant and still resisting arrest. He later appeared in court on a charge of felony escape. Bail was denied. He's now in state prison. Brian Todd has details about how the search came to an end thanks to heat-seeking technology and a police dog named Yoda.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The subject is in custody.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Escaped murder convict Danelo Cavalcante captured after nearly two weeks on the run.

DEB RYAN, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, CHESTER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA: Our nightmare is finally over and the good guys won.

TODD (voice-over): A burglar alarm overnight led to a heat signal spotted by aerial infrared. This morning, tactical teams converged on a location inside the search zone.

LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: They were able to move in very quietly. They had the element of surprise. Cavalcante did not realize he was surrounded until that had occurred. That did not stop him from trying to escape. He began to crawl through thick underbrush, taking his rifle with him.

TODD (voice-over): But he did not have an opportunity to shoot. A K-9 officer released a police dog.

BIVENS: The dog subdued him and team members from both those teams immediately moved in. He continued to resist but was forcibly taken into custody.


TODD (voice-over): Within five minutes, it was over.

DOUG BREWER, WORKS NEAR CAPTURE LOCATION: Oh, it was right back in there (inaudible).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right behind the wood pile?


TODD (voice-over): Police say the rifle Cavalcante had with him was within his reach, as he was struggling to get free from the dog. Deadly force was not used, despite being authorized.

BIVENS: The gun was absolutely a factor in the threat. The dog is very quick, has the ability to disable someone and take them off guard so that they're not able to do something like fire a gun or use a knife or whatever other thing -- or escape even.

TODD (voice-over): Authorities say Cavalcante was bleeding from a scalp wound caused by the dog, but it was not significant.

BIVENS: He looked as though he had been put through an awful lot. He looked tired, wet, and stressed which is exactly what we were trying to do all along.

TODD (voice-over): Police say there were people who wanted to help him but were prevented from doing so, including his sister, who has been referred for deportation proceedings. Cavalcante escaped 13 days ago while serving life in prison without parole for killing his former girlfriend Deborah Brandao in 2021. For the family of the victims

RYAN: They have been barricaded inside their homes, not feeling safe anywhere. So for them, this is a tremendous relief.

TODD (voice-over): Same for many residents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely -- it's definitely relieving, scary for people around here.

BREWER: It's nice to be able to come back out and make a living. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Brian Todd joins us now from South Coventry Township in Pennsylvania, very near where Cavalcante was apprehended. What's his status right now?

TODD: Anderson, we have a new booking photo for Danelo Cavalcante. This comes to us from the Pennsylvania Department of Corrections. This photo is him being processed at the -- at a facility called SCI Phoenix that is in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. That is a maximum security prison where he will be serving his life sentence. We also know that he's been charged with felony escape in connection to this manhunt.

Also tonight, we have a statement from the family of the murdered ex- girlfriend, Deborah Brandao. After his capture, the family released a statement. Here's just part of it I'll read to you. This is from Deborah Brandao's sister Sarah Brandao. "We are profoundly grateful for the support and hard work performed by the U.S. Police over these last days. The past two weeks were extremely painful and terrifying, as they brought back all the feelings of losing my sister and the idea that this criminal could hurt us again." And of course, asked for privacy as they say they're going to recompose themselves.

And Anderson, the status of another individual involved in this, we have received a picture and information about the dog who took Danelo Cavalcante down just a short distance from where I'm standing. The dog is a four-year-old Belgian Malinois named Yoda. And from every account, this dog was incredibly heroic and tough, tracking him as he tried to crawl away with his rifle. And Lieutenant Colonel George Bivens of the Pennsylvania State Police said that while Toda was basically tackling him and on top of him, that rifle was within reaching distance of Danelo Cavalcante and that Cavalcante was resisting the dog.

So, you can imagine, that was a close call that this dog could have been injured, possible shot by Cavalcante. Luckily, none of that happened.

COOPER: Yeah, Brian Todd, thank you. Joined now by Franco Rosa. He is a -- he and Cavalcante are former roommates. Cavalcante moved out one day before he stabbed to death his ex-girlfriend in 2021, the crime for which he was sent to prison.

Franco, I'm wondering what went through your mind when you heard that your former roommate had been captured?

FRANCO ROSA, FORMER ROOMMATE OF DANELO CAVALCANTE: It was a huge relief. I couldn't believe it for the first few seconds and then I just start crying. I was really relieved.

COOPER: Had you been afraid at all for your safety while he was on the run? Because obviously, he was reaching out to people he knew even from long ago.

ROSA: Yes, yes, of course. I didn't know if he would come here. Like in the beginning, I was like, OK, I don't think he's going to come here. I think he's going to try to go somewhere else in the country and maybe go to another country. But then on Sunday, when I heard that he was nearby, I was like extremely nervous. I was anxious. And yeah, I didn't know what to do. I was -- so much stuff going through my mind.

COOPER: We're looking -- I want to show people video of him moving out of your apartment the day before he murdered his girlfriend. Did he seem like a violent person when you knew him? Had he had -- did you know about issues between him and his former girlfriend?

ROSA: The only thing that I knew was that he had an argument with her, but nothing like violent. It was just like an argument and then they split up, and then he moved to my house. But he was super-quiet, super-quiet and working so much. Like he would leave the house between 5:00 and 6:00 in the morning and come back like around 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 p.m. And yeah, it was really quiet, shy guy and working a lot.


COOPER: Did you know when he lived with you that he was wanted in connection with a homicide in Brazil?

ROSA: No. No idea like . I just found out one or two days after the murder of his ex.

COOPER: Franco Rosa, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

ROSA: Thank you.

COOPER: Joining me now our Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, Former NYPD Deputy Commissioner. John, it's over, finally. I mean, you and I have been talking about this for quite a while. What do you make of how it all unfolded?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, it was fascinating to watch it unfold as it did. You know, at 1:00 in the morning when that DEA surveillance plane is circling, these are -- this is a team that's usually following drug dealers, looking for a drug transaction or a money drop. But, here they are circling the woods at 1:00 in the morning and they spot a heat signal, and they say it looks like a person, and it looks like a person who's crawling.

That was a real indicator to them that it wasn't another one of these false positives, which it was a deer moving through the woods or something. They set up around that. We've also learned a lot more about his four-hour interview with U.S. Marshals, talking about Clark (ph) tonight and what he told them, how he operated on the run.

COOPER: And what do we know?

MILLER: You know, it's some of what we expected. He was sticking to the woods, hiding in the day time, moving at night, trying to steal things from houses, came up with a backpack that had some clothes and shaving gear which made it easy for him to get rid of the beard and the mustache and change his appearance. He survived on watermelon and water from the streams. He went so far as to, when he had to relieve himself, actually bury his own fecal matter because he took into account that the search parties would realize that didn't come from a deer or it didn't come from a rabbit, and they would know they were on the right track.

Interesting that he says that three times, they were so close if they had stepped one direction or another they would have stepped on him. But he was lying in the brush stock still and not breathing until the search party passed. So, they've been close.

COOPER: He's now in a Pennsylvania state prison to carry out the rest of that life sentence he was serving. Does he then get -- I mean if somebody has escaped, do they get extra restrictions in prison? Are they watched more carefully?

MILLER: Well, he's got a couple of things going. Number one, he's going to be treated as an extreme escape risk. Number two, he's in a more secure facility where there are more concentric circles of security. So, it's a place that will be harder to escape from. It's a state prison. And of course, he's going to be treated differently. He's also going to be charged with escape.

One last thing of interest, Anderson, because you and I talked about this a couple of times over the last 24 hours, which is the introduction of the gun into this scenario. You know, we talked last night about that brings opportunity he didn't have before. He could do a robbery to get cash; he could use it for a carjacking. Indeed we are told in his interview with the State Police and the U.S. Marshals, he said that was his plan.

He was going to use the gun to do a carjacking and get that vehicle and go as far as he could go toward the Canadian border and if he had to, carjack another one. So, all of our assumptions and worries that people in the area were in danger were founded, it appears.

COOPER: I've just got to talk about this dog, Yoda, with you because police dogs -- I support a charity called Spikes K9 Fund that my friend Jimmy Hatch runs, that provides tactical vests and training for police dogs. Because a lot of police dogs don't get -- actually have tactical vests and I mean, they get killed all the time. They get shot. They get stabbed. I've been at -- like, I wore one of those suits and got hit by a Belgian Malinois. It's quite an experience.

MILLER: It is. The Belgian Malinois -- what we consider a police dog is a German Shepherd. But the Belgian Malinois is emerging as a smart, fast, agile dog that is very amenable to the training. But as you point out, Yoda turned this into a less than lethal affair. Because with that gun in reach, if he stood up with that weapon, it's likely he would have been shot. But, as you also point out, customs and border protection, the border patrol, they've lost nine of these dogs in the line of duty who have been killed over the recent years.

And they actually hold memorial services for them as they would for a fallen officer. These are smart, dedicated, and essential animals and friends, but also players in their tactical performance. COOPER: Yeah. I started supporting Spikes K9 Fund. There was a guy named Krieger in Virginia Beach who got killed, and that's why it started. John Miller, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

MILLER: Thanks.


COOPER: Coming up next, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un hold face-to- face talks, the possible arms deal they discussed. The invitation Kim extended to Putin, and what Washington is saying about it all coming up.

Also, new footage of the catastrophic flooding in Libya, where the central government now says upwards of 6,000 people have died.


COOPER: North Korean state media is reporting tonight that Kim Jong Un invited Vladimir Putin to visit Pyongyang at a convenient time, and that the Russian leader has happily accepted the offer. This comes after the two leaders held high-stakes talks in Russia today that the U.S. is calling troubling. Their meeting took place soon after North Korea launched a short-range missile. And a lavish five-hour state dinner in his honor, Kim praised Moscow saying, "I will always stand with Russia." More on the summit now from CNN's Matthew Chance.


MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From armored train to armored limo, Kim Jong Un was greeted at the Cosmodrome by Putin himself, the leaders of two of the world's most sanctioned countries then shook hands for some 40 seconds.


Thank you for inviting me at this busy time, says Kim.

We're glad to have you, Putin replies.

Both have much to gain at the moment from each other.

This is where Russia builds its rocket delivery systems for satellites. Technology North Korea, which has repeatedly failed to launch its own, badly wants. Touring the facility with his Russian host, Kim asked enthusiastic questions about the size and power of the rockets.

Before signing a visitor book with the words, "Glory to Russia which gave birth to the first space conquerors," helping North Korea with its own space ambitions, Putin said earlier is why they are here. The Kremlin's real reason may be more down to earth. The grinding war in Ukraine has caused acute shortages of weapons and ammunition. North Korea has vast supplies that Russian analysts say could be delivered in just days if a deal is done. So far, there has been just words. The Russian people and military will emerge victorious in the fight to

punish the evil forces to pursue hegemony and expansion, North Korean leader told the formal lunch (ph).

But an actual deal would be an alarming marriage of convenience one both sides seem ready to toast.


COOPER: And Matthew Chance joins us now. As you said, North Korean state media is reporting that Kim Jong Un has invited Vladimir Putin to North Korea. What more do we know about that visit?

CHANCE: Yeah. Not a lot, because the Kremlin at the moment says that there is no concrete plans for President Putin to travel to Pyongyang, the capital of North Korea. But, the statement from North Korean state media saying that he has been invited anyway at a convenient time and that Putin happily accepted it. I mean, look, I mean previously, it was the priority, the relationship between Russia and North Korea. Not for Moscow anyway.

But now, there is a different motivation driving it. Russia desperately needs ammunition, potentially from North Korean sources as well. So we may see a close relationship and more time being spent by the leaders of those countries in each other's lands. And so, that's something we are watching out for Anderson.

COOPER: It is worth noting is that as member of the UN Security Council, Russia has supported sanctions over its nuclear weapons and missiles programs. I mean, has Putin or other Russian authorities commented on the future of those sanctions?

CHANCE: They have, yes, because they've been asked about them, particularly because of all the speculation about a big arms deal and of course, the trade in arms is specifically banned by the United Nations Security Council when it comes to North Korea. And Russia is a member of the Security Council as you say and so, it would have signed up to that ban. The same with dual-use (ph) technology like rocket engines that can be launched -- used to launch satellites, but also launched to carry explosive warheads as well.

The Kremlin says that Russia remains a responsible member of the U.N. Security Council and says it is going to continue to work as part of that organization. But it's been ambiguous because it has also said, look, at the same time, North Korea is a close neighbor and we will continue to develop our relationship with that country. And so, I think it has left the door open as to -- intentionally, as to whether it is going to sort of strike a big arms deal with North Korea or not.

COOPER: Yeah. Matthew Chance in Moscow for us tonight. Matthew, thank you.

Libya now, relief money for the country is beginning to flow tonight in the face of truly staggering need. This is drone footage from the height of it after heavy rainfall and the collapse of two dams left entire towns under water. Today, the U.S. and Great Britain announced several million dollars of initial humanitarian assistance even as the scope of disaster came into sharper focus. More from our Ben Wedeman.


BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The bodies are everywhere. Dozens, dozens of the dead covered in blankets, awaiting identification and burial.

The dead number in the thousands, but so far, no one really knows how many were taken by Storm Daniel. Survivors are finding more and more bodies. Rescue workers and volunteers helped retrieve the body of a boy wrapped in a blanket and prepared to put him in a body bag. His father arrives, overcome emotionally. Doctors fear so many dead left in the open could lead to an outbreak of disease.


We aren't able to identify all the bodies and bury them, says this woman identified as Dr. Ayesha (ph). We want to provide a humane place, freezers where loved ones can then identify them. Access to Derna remains difficult. The flood destroyed many of the roads and bridges leading to the city. This port in Eastern Libya has been transformed into a wasteland of mud, rubble and ruin.

The raging waters that tore through the city spared no one and nothing. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Rome (ph).

COOPER: We just heard coastal New England is on high alert after hurricane and tropical storm watches were issued. We are tracking Hurricane Lee's path northward, next.


COOPER: Short time ago, the National Hurricane Center gave its latest update on Hurricane Lee, currently Category 2 strength. Hurricane watch has been issued for parts of Maine and tropical storm watches have been issued for other portions of New England from Maine to Rhode Island including Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket. Storm system is weakening but it is also expected to remain "very large and dangerous" which means even if the storm doesn't make landfall in the U.S.A.