Return to Transcripts main page
Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
House More Bitterly Divided In Aftermath Of McCarthy's Ouster; Interview With Rep. Dusty Johnson (R-SD); Trump Back In Court For Third Day Of New York Civil Fraud Trial; Trump's Net Worth Declined $600+ Million From A Year Ago; House Speaker Candidate Jim Jordan Says He Is Against Ukraine Funding; Zelenskyy Warns Of Weapons Shortage; Tupac Shakur Murder Suspect Appears In Court For The First Time. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 04, 2023 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: "Out Front" means original reporting, creativity, energy. stories we're passionate about and that you care about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: We said that on day one, and we hope that we have stayed true to that mission as our team, and true to you. Thank you all so much for watching, and of course, thank you for being with us tonight as you are hopefully most nights.
AC 360 with Anderson Cooper begins right now.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360: The dysfunction is coming from inside the House as Republicans fight Republicans over what happened and who will be the next speaker.
New York's attorney general, Letitia James says the Donald Trump Show is over as his fraud trial continues, and the former president heads back to Florida.
Plus, the first court appearance for the first person yet to be charged in Tupac Shakur's killing 27 years after the crime. We will talk to the DA on the case.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight with the dysfunction, infighting and backbiting among House Republicans after eight of them made their party leader, Kevin McCarthy, the first ever House Speaker to be voted out of a job, that and why none of it should be surprising to him or anyone.
First, quickly, the dysfunction got so bad after the vote, we learned today that Republicans cannot even stand to be in the same room together for more than a few minutes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. GARRET GRAVES (R-LA): There was a meeting last night as you may
know of Republicans and that room would have devolved into I think, physical attacks on one another if people stayed in there for a long period of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's a Republican congressman describing the anger and resentment that left members last night unable to agree on a successor or anything else except putting off a decision until next week.
Today other than Congressman Steve Scalise and Jim Jordan throwing their hats in the ring, and Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene saying the former president should get the job, nothing whatsoever happened. Nothing that is, but anger and recrimination is against the eight GOP rebels who voted to oust McCarthy, especially the instigator Florida's, Matt Gaetz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO (R-NY): I think yesterday, we saw from Matt Gaetz, one of the greatest acts of heresy that I've seen in a while.
REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R-NY): Matt Gaetz undermined the entire conference. He undermined the entire institution.
REP. DERRICK VAN ORDEN (R-MN): What the guy's doing is not the best interest of the United States of America.
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): You want to come at me and call me a RINO, you can kiss my ass.
You go around talking your big game and you thumping your chests on Twitter. Yes, come to my office come out and debate mother --
GRAVES: I really can't believe that people like Matt Gaetz were so dumb to fall for this.
REP. MARC MOLINARO (R-NY): He is certainly going to have to earn some respect within the conference.
REP. MICHAEL LAWLER (R-NY): There needs to be accountability for the eight individuals who selfishly upended our House majority and put their own interests above the country.
REP. STEPHANIE BICE (R-OK): Matt Gaetz is using the American people as pawns in his narcissistic game of charades, and I think we've had enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the House is adjourned until Friday. The effort to find a new speaker on hold until next Tuesday or Wednesday.
Aid to Ukraine is in limbo, along with all the other important things that Congress needs to do, including passing measures to keep the government running and the troops paid when this weekend's temporary spending measure expires 42 days from now.
And again, none of this should surprise the former speaker, that the rebellion within his own party cost him the speakership, aided by the rule that he himself agreed in exchange for the job, a rule allowing a single member in this case, Congressman Gaetz to launch the effort to unseat him.
But instead of looking inward last night, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I think today was a political decision by the Democrats. And I think -- I think the things they have done in the past hurt the institution. They just started removing people from committee. They just started doing the other things.
And my fear is the institution fell today, because you can't do the job, if eight people, you have 94 percent or 96 percent of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side.
How do you govern?
And for them to make a motion on me because I made a decision for the country that they agreed with, but they choose to do the other, that becomes a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Keeping Them Honest, that claim focusing attention on Democrats is disingenuous at best. The rule allowing a single member to challenge his speakership is a House rule that applies to any member of any party, meaning any Democrat could have done what Matt Gaetz did at any time during Kevin McCarthy's 269 days as speaker.
No Democrats did. Gaetz, a Republican used that rule, which again, McCarthy agreed to in order to get the job, which in turn made his job impossible, something the Republican Senate Leader underscored today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): To do that job for anyone, you have to get rid of the Motion to Vacate because it puts whoever the speaker is in a hammerlock of dysfunction, so potential dysfunction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That concession by McCarthy was part of a series of steps he took that have fed and nurtured the radical wing of his party or to borrow from my friend and colleague, Jake Tapper that fed and nurtured the face eating leper that would later eat his face.
That coddling of his political assassins began before Republicans controlled the House, starting when he abandoned his criticism of the former president just two weeks after saying he bore responsibility for January 6th.
It continued with the forcing out of Liz Cheney, after she and Congressman Adam Kinzinger joined the January 6 Committee and built into a courtship of extremists and conspiracy pushers like Marjorie Taylor Greene. Speaker McCarthy telling a friend, according to "The New York Times: "I will never leave that woman talking," about Greene, and tellingly, she did support him yesterday.
But in a larger sense, the moves he made to appease her wing of the party, including launching the impeachment inquiry of the current president after he said he wouldn't without a vote and flirting with a government shutdown, only empowered Republicans who don't mind throwing a monkey wrench into the works, including the one who pushed those same hardliners to shut down the government and push the speaker he once called, "My Kevin" into a corner he could not get out of, the former president who should be noted spent today in court on trial for fraud.
Joining us now, CNN senior political commentator and former Illinois Republican congressman, Adam Kinzinger.
Congressman, are you surprised that most House Republicans are not blaming Kevin McCarthy for teeing up all this?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I guess in a way, they have to give their kind of public view. But I think at their heart, they know. I mean, I think in their heart, they know that he made concessions to the very people and he gave them their concessions to the very people that he had to earn their vote.
And, he got their vote, but only for eight months. They turned against him. I mean, this was the most foreseeable thing.
It's disingenuous for McCarthy or anybody to blame the Democrats for this motion to recommit. Let's think about earning that motion to recommit, this motion to vacate. Let's think about this.
Do you really think a single Republican, if the script was flipped, would have voted to not vacate Nancy Pelosi from the speakership? Of course, they all would have voted to vacate. You think Kevin McCarthy -- this is the point -- he, as you mentioned in the opening, he opened an impeachment inquiry without the promised vote.
He went to Mar-a-Lago and resurrected Donald Trump. I mean, literally, he took like the, I guess not literally, figuratively, he took the paddles out of the ambulance and brought him back to political life.
So yes, I think Republicans today, Republicans in the House are kind of scratching their head saying, maybe, how did we get here? But all they have to do is think back a few months, and you can see it.
COOPER: Do you think the next speaker whether it's Jim Jordan, Steve Scalise, or someone else will have to cut deals with the far right members the same way? I mean, will they have to agree to the same, you know, one person can vacate the chair? KINZINGER: I think so. I mean, I think the only way that changes is if
we go a month without a speaker, and we have multiple races. And eventually, people are desperate to put a speaker in.
But this is where I think it's going to get interesting is you have folks that are willing to obviously vacate the chair, you have folks that are willing to hold the speakership up for whatever their demand is, and by the way, they're all extreme demands.
The question is, what does this do to Ukraine aid? Because what I really worry about is, whoever is running for speaker is going to promise no Ukraine aid.
Now keep in mind, those that move to vacate Kevin McCarthy with the exception of like Nancy Mace, I have no idea where she came from on this, but they have all been talking about things like regular order, and to the viewers, regular order means if you're a member of Congress, you should be able to bring up, you know, a resolution or you should be able to bring up an amendment, and it should get voted on, kind of the regular way of the order of business.
But these are the same people who are now saying they don't want to come to the floor, an up or down vote on Ukraine, because that would pass overwhelmingly. And so, they've got to get their message straight.
I worry, though, that whoever runs for speaker is going to have to commit to no Ukraine aid and by the way --
COOPER: Jim Jordan has already said that.
KINZINGER: I would encourage -- yes, well, of course, and I've got to tell you, I think he's going to be in the catbird seat on this, and I can get into that, but I think it's important for five or 10 members of the House of the Republicans to refuse to vote for anybody that won't bring Ukraine to the floor for an up or down vote.
Will they do that? Probably not. They should.
COOPER: Why do you think Jim Jordan is in the catbird seat?
KINZINGER: Because it's all about I -- think if it was secret ballot, Steve Scalise would win overwhelmingly or anybody but Jim Jordan, but what's you're going to start seeing, Anderson, is on the e-mails, on the fundraising on other cable news networks. Jim is going to be now the new litmus test of are you a true conservative or not.
Steve Scalise won't be, it'll be Jim Jordan, and so there will be a slow acquiescence of everybody to Jim Jordan. That's my prediction. I certainly hope for the country I'm wrong, but I'll also say this, if he becomes speaker, it will be interesting to see how a shut it all down kind of guy actually governs a country.
COOPER: Congressman Kinzinger, appreciate your time. Thank you.
Much more now on the bitterness the speaker fight brought to the surface.
CNN's Lauren Fox has that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: hey, good morning.
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In one of his first moves, which sources say was directed by McCarthy, temporary speaker Patrick McHenry ordered Representative Steny Hoyer and former Speaker Nancy Pelosi removed from their offices at the Capitol, so McCarthy could move in.
Pelosi writing in a statement: "Office space doesn't matter to me, but it seems to be important to them." A source close to Pelosi says the move was retaliation for Democrats siding against McCarthy in the speaker's vote.
REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D-MA): Rather than, you know, then being petty and silly, you know, and throwing Nancy Pelosi out of her office, I mean, how does that contribute to civility up here?
FOX (voice over): A House of Representatives without a speaker paralyzed.
MCGOVERN: We can't get anything done. Bills can't be brought to the House floor. We can't debate them on the House floor. We can't pass anything into law. And let's just pray that there's not a national emergency that we have to respond to because this place is inoperable.
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): We should elect a speaker who's better.
FOX (voice over): And the Republican fury is turning inward to Representative Matt Gaetz, who led the charge to unseat the speaker.
GRAVES: Yesterday, effectively someone threw a grenade right in the middle of the House floor.
There was a meeting last night as you may know, of Republicans and that room would have devolved into, I think physical attacks on one another if people stayed in there for a long period of time.
FOX (voice over): Some Republicans calling for the rebels to be punished.
REP. DAVID JOYCE (R-OH): I don't see how they can really be part of a conference when they stand on the -- they come on inside, listen to what's going on and go outside and lob bombs in the middle. It is a waste of time having conversations with these people.
FOX (voice over): McHenry will remain as speaker until a new election can take place with Majority Leader Steve Scalise and Representative Jim Jordan already vying for the position.
REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): I think we are a conservative center right party, I think I'm the guy who can help unite that.
FOX (voice over): And a rule that allowed McCarthy to be removed in the first place may not be going anywhere, according to another member considering the speakership.
REP. KEVIN HERN (R-OK): I'm not afraid of that. That's something that would be part of my platform. If the members want it, that's fine.
FOX (voice over): Lauren Fox, CNN, Capitol Hill.
COOPER: You heard some of the frustration and outright anger toward Congressman Matt Gaetz from House Republicans there in Lauren's piece, but Republican Congressman Markwayne Mullin took it to the next level this afternoon, going after Congressman Gaetz for the allegations against him over sex trafficking, which launched a federal investigation. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRODY MULLINS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": You've got to think about this guy. This is a guy that didn't have -- that the media didn't give it time at day or two after he was accused of sleeping with an underage girl, and there's a reason why no one in the conference came and defended him because we had all seen the videos he was showing on the House floor that all of us had walked away of the girls that he had slept with.
He bragged about how he would crush ED medicine and chase it with energy drinks, so he could go all night. This is obviously before he got married.
And so when that accusation came out, no one defended him, and then no one on the media would give him the time of the day. All of a sudden, he found fame because he opposed the speaker of the House back in November, and he has always stayed there, and he is not -- he was never going to leave until he got this last moment of fame by saying -- by going after a Motion to Vacate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's important to note, Congressman Gaetz has never been charged with any sex trafficking crime, and he gave this statement to CNN in response: "I don't think Markwayne Mullin and I have said 20 words to each other on the House floor. This is a lie from someone who doesn't know me and who's coping with the death of the political career of his friend, Kevin. Thoughts and prayers."
I'm joined now by Republican Congressman Dusty Johnson, who voted for Congressman McCarthy to retain the speakership.
Congressman, good to have you on. Are you surprised by the personal nature of the attacks between members of the GOP conference in the last 24 hours?
REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): I'm not surprised. Tensions and tempers have been running pretty high for the last nine months.
Anderson, you know it, but there is a small group of hardliners that are just making it impossible for us to run the House like it needs to be run. I would note, just with a tiny bit of amusement, that one of the allegations that Matt Gaetz leveled at Speaker McCarthy was that he had not passed 12 appropriations bills off the House floor yet.
Part of the reason for that is if these hardliners had been voting against bringing these appropriations bills to the floor, despite that Kevin McCarthy managed to get 70 percent of discretionary spending through the House before the deadline. But for Matt Gaetz, you know, attention and chaos is what he seeks.
COOPER: So some of your GOP colleagues, most recently, Congressman Max Miller, who spoke with Manu Raju, a short time ago have talked about expelling Matt Gaetz from the GOP conference. Would you support that move?
JOHNSON: I'm pretty frustrated, still. I'm angry. I try not to make decisions when I'm angry. I would counsel all of my colleagues to listen, just take -- let's take a couple of deep, deep breaths from the next couple of days.
And before we make any decisions about accountability or before we make any decisions about who should be Speaker of the House, let's make sure that we're clear headed and we're actually focused on what can move the House in the right direction, because, Anderson, if we don't fix what the foundational problems of the House Republican Conference, the new speaker is just going to be in the same old stupid clown car, but a different driver, that's not going to get it done.
COOPER: So what are the foundational problems that you see? I mean, obviously, some of the things, many of the things that McCarthy had to agree to in order to get the speaker job, as Mitch McConnell pointed out, made the job impossible.
JOHNSON: I thought that was a bit of an unfair allegation at the top of your show. Nancy Pelosi also had narrow margins last Congress, she agreed to a number of rule changes. This is what happens.
You know, Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy both cut the deals they needed to get -- they needed to cut to get to 218. In some respects, those rules made the House better and others they made them a little harder to govern.
But, let's not blame rules, although I would tell you the Motion to Vacate at one is insanity.
COOPER: Well, I mean, that is -- I mean, you're saying it's insanity, if any member of Congress can do a Motion to Vacate, doesn't that make, I mean, to Mitch McConnell's point, doesn't that make it impossible?
JOHNSON: It does, and we should change that rule. But it seems like the most DC thing ever to blame an arcane rule, when the problem is actually the makeup of the House. Yes, let's change the rule. But I'm not going to change the rule, at some point, it's garbage in and garbage out.
If you have members that don't want to work, if you have members that crave chaos, if you have members that have never actually figured out how to work with any other human being to find common ground ever, it is going to be kind of a mess, regardless of the rules.
COOPER: Would you be comfortable voting for either the two most prominent candidates? I know you said, you know, you want to take a breather. What do you make of the names that are out there -- Steve Scalise, Jim Jordan?
JOHNSON: I think they're capable individuals, but we really need to do a better job of putting them in a position to win than we did with Kevin McCarthy and Kevin McCarthy is as emotionally intelligent as anybody I've ever worked with. He listened as much as any leader that I have ever served with. He really found common, frankly delivered some victories that many in the media and many in the House didn't think he could deliver.
But the next speaker is not going to last any more than nine months if we don't take care of some business.
COOPER: Congressman Dusty Johnson, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, the former president's fraud trial and what do you make of his claim today that he'll testify in his own defense.
And later, what happened today in court as the man charged in Tupac Shakur's murder made his first appearance as a defendant. I'll talk to the DA in the case.
COOPER: We mentioned at the top, the former president was in court again today for the third straight day in his New York civil fraud trial. When it was over, he left for Florida, meaning that for now at least as the New York attorney general, Letitia James put it, the Trump Show is over, the trial though goes on and he did say he'd testify if called upon.
CNN's Kara Scannell has been following it all week, was in court again today. So did the former president abide by the judge's gag order?
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He did. The gag or only covered comments about the judge's staff, but Trump wasted no time and no opportunity to lash out against the judge and the New York attorney general, Letitia James, and for the first time this week, she responded. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The judge already knows what he's going to do. He's a Democrat judge. He's a Democrat judge out of the clubhouses. He's controlled and it is a shame.
I'm stuck here because we have a corrupt attorney general that communicates with the DOJ in Washington to keep me nice and busy.
You borrow money, you pay it back and you get sued by a political animal.
LETITIA JAMES, NEW YORK ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr. Trump's comments were offensive. They were baseless. They were void of any facts and nor any evidence. What they were, were comments that unfortunately warranted violence, comments that I will describe as race baiting, and comments unfortunately, it appeals to the bottom of our humanity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCANNELL: The judge himself even got frustrated on the bench by the cross examination by one of Trump's attorneys and he slammed his hand down and said "This is ridiculous. You're not allowed to waste time" -- Anderson.
COOPER: So now that the former president has left New York, not expected in court tomorrow. What's next in the trial?
SCANNELL: So the cross examination of the longtime accountant will continue with his attorney. Trump's attorneys say that could go all day. But inside the courtroom, the demeanor has changed dramatically. The temperature has come way down. The judge even wished one of the government attorneys a happy birthday, and Trump's attorneys even objected less to all the questioning.
So this will continue now as we get into the nitty-gritty of these financial statements and the values of these properties -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Kara Scannell, thanks so much.
Joining us now CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson and Caroline Polisi. She is a defense attorney specializing in white collar crime and a law lecturer at Columbia University.
Joey, obviously, there's the politics of all this. I mean, did the former president help himself or hurt himself, just in legal terms?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So I guess look legally, Anderson, what it's about is what happens in the courtroom, right? This is a judge trial, as we all very well know. You're not pandering to a jury or playing to a jury. A judge -- judges are generally very well-equipped at assessing what the factual issues are and assessing what the legal issues are.
Remember, to put everything in perspective, you're talking about seven different, if it were indictments, we would call them counts, but it's a civil case. Right? So we call them causes of action.
The first cause of action relating to fraud. We all know where the judge stood relating to that, he issued what's called a summary judgment, right, motion in favor, right, of the attorney general indicating that there was persistent fraud here.
And so what's left to mete out are the other counts relating to what? False financial statements relating to falsifying business records.
COOPER: Basically cooking the books.
JACKSON: Exactly right. And so I think the judge, he is a little concerned about what Trump does outside of the court, hence the gag order, but as it relates to the legal and factual issues, no matter what the feuding is, I think he'll have his eye on the prize.
COOPER: And Caroline, I mean, the former president has complained multiple times about the lack of a jury, but there is not usually a jury in this kind of trials, are there?
CAROLINE POLISI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY SPECIALIZING IN WHITE COLLAR CRIME: Well, it's an interesting sort of niche-y legal question, not to be too sort of lawyerly liked, but there's a difference between a remedy and law and a remedy and equity, because this statute, the cause of action that Tish James actually brought this case under, the one that Judge Engoron ruled on summary judgment, because that is a unique statute that really has its remedy in equity. It's a disgorgement.
She is looking for really to be repaid for what, you know, the state of New York was defrauded from. Typically, there is some case law on point that would point to the fact that there may not be a jury in that type of case. However, I will say that any competent lawyer would have had at least checked the box as it were or put in that boilerplate language that Joey and I know so well, you always put in a response, saying we request a jury trial.
They could have litigated this issue for sure. I'm not sure where it would have come out, but they haven't even preserved the issue for appeal now.
COOPER: And Joey, the judge said that neither side had asked for a jury trial.
JACKSON: Yes, well, that's significant to Caroline's point is that you can at least make the ask, right, without getting into the niceties of equities and you know, what it is about. Ultimately, what happens in the civil trial is there's two phases, one of which is to determine liability.
As I noted, the judge made that assessment. You have liability as to fraud, right, talking about fantasy lands and everything else. The judge will make assessments factually, as to the issue of cooking the books, as you mentioned, Anderson, and that's the financial statement fraud, the issues relating to falsifying business documents, the issues relating to insurance fraud, but certainly, if Trump wanted a jury trial, that issue could have been litigated, it was not and as a result of that, you're stuck with this judge who is going to assess the facts and only the facts, so help him.
COOPER: Caroline, what do you make the case that prosecutors are presenting? Because I mean, there is -- you know, there are shady dealings in New York real estate and people pump up values and sort of have aspirational values.
POLISI: Yes. And that certainly is going to be one of the arguments that Trump's defense team makes on appeal. I think what's interesting about this case, the summary judgment, you know, really, it is half the whole in this in this matter.
The interesting part is that now, Tish James will have to show intent to defraud. She will have to show that there's a victim in this case, whereas before on that other issue of pervasive fraud, it's really kind of like a strict liability case there. All she has to show, it was documents case basically, that there was, you know, this misrepresentation, this pervasive misrepresentation.
The hurdle is a bit larger now for the state to move forward, because in any, you know, criminal trial here or civil, but in any fraud allegation, getting inside the head of -- you know, we saw today they're really pounding away at the accounting. Well, it was your fault -- there's going to be a lot of finger pointing in terms of what was known --
COOPER: So there is finger pointing at the accountant saying, it is your fault.
POLISI: Yes, exactly. Exactly. To the point where Engoron was, you know, banging his hands on the table saying he's not a co-defendant, you know. They are basically trying to pin everything on him because it's a blame game at this point.
COOPER: All right, Caroline Polisi, appreciate it. Joey Jackson as well. Thank you.
"Forbes" Magazine has dropped the former president from its list of 400 richest Americans. It is the second time in three years he has missed the cut.
CNN's senior data reporter, Harry Enten joins us now. So how much money did the former president lose last year?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: An astounding, about $600 million, and that my friend, is a very rare thing given that most of the people on the "Forbes" list, at least those in 2022 actually gained worth, 276 of those in the 400 gained worth.
Trump is just one of 24 who dropped off the list.
So 2023 might be a good year for a lot of us. It hasn't been a good year for Donald Trump, at least in terms of his worth.
COOPER: What was the biggest financial loser for Trump?
ENTEN: Truth Social. You know, that's the social media platform that he belongs to. You'll notice, you know, he doesn't really post on Twitter or X anymore, and the big reason why is he owns 90 percent of Truth Social and look at that, it's worth dropped from more than $700 million to less than $100 million.
I guess, part of that might be because you and I aren't on that particular platform. But the fact is, we're a bunch of many who just simply put have not decided to take part in the Truth Social media platform.
COOPER: And if the former president had invested in the S&P 500 when he first landed on the Forbes 400 back in 1982, how would his fortunes have tracked? Would he have made more -- would he be more successful?
ENTEN: He'd have been a lot more successful. I mean, this is something that simple financial advisors will tell you to do. Invest in the S&P 500. It's gained about 10,000 percent since 1982.
Donald Trump, his gained net worth, he has gained about 2,500 percent, but the fact is, his net worth would be significantly better if he had just taken the money he had in 1982, invested in the S&P 500.
Look, Donald Trump is still worth billions of dollars, but the fact of the matter is, it is not because he is necessarily a good investor. It's that he started off with a lot of money and basically was able to make money because the fact is, once you have money, it makes money and Donald Trump is a good example of that.
COOPER: Harry Enten, thanks very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up, back to the fight inside the Republican Party specifically over the issue of funding the war in Ukraine and what the fight means and looks like on the battlefield. We'll have a report from the frontlines, next.
And a CNN exclusive, Biden's dog, Commander, has been involved in more biting incidents than previously reported. Details ahead.
COOPER: The uncertainty over future war funding for Ukraine, which began with the implosion of the House Republican majority, grew today. As we reported earlier in the hour, one of the leading Republican candidates for House Speaker, Ohio's Jim Jordan, told CNN he is against it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What about Ukraine? Are you willing to move forward with an aid package for Ukraine if you're Speaker?
REP. JIM JORDAN, (R) OHIO: I'm against that. What I understand is, at some point, we're going to have to deal with this appropriations process in the right way. We're going to try to do that in the next -- what are we down to -- 41 days. The most pressing issue on Americans' minds is not Ukraine. It is the border situation and it is crime on the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Shortly after that exchange, the Republican Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee told CNN there may be a window for a deal tied to border security. Ukraine's president says the shortage of weapons is posing difficulties. Fred Pleitgen is on the frontlines with this exclusive report.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The artillery troops need to move fast. Russian drones might be in the air. Line up, calibrate, fire. Every rocket -- that's it -- even though this Grad launcher would be more effective firing large salvos.
ALEX, UKRAINE ARMED FORCES (through translator): It's not very precise. It also depends on the weather and the range. It would be good to have more precise rockets or guided ones.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): But the Ukrainians are running short on even these unguided Soviet-era rockets, and ammo shortages are a problem across the battlefield here in eastern Ukraine. Soldiers from the 80th Airborne Assault Brigade have a quick snack, then get ready to fire their how western-donated Howitzer.
The American 105-mm shells are valuable, but increasingly scarce commodity.
PLEITGEN (on camera): The Ukrainians call this the sniper rifle of their artillery because it's so accurate. But it also illustrates one of the big problems they have. They have plenty of barrels to fire from, but not enough ammunition to fire.
Battery Commander Myron telling me the lack of shells means his forces are badly outgunned here.
MYRON, UKRAINE ARMED FORCES (through translator): It's hard to give precise numbers, but I think they fire ten times for every round we fire. Sometimes it's one to 100.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): The Russians are constantly taking aim at this area, though the Ukrainians say they're making gains, pushing Vladimir Putin's army back, even using combat helicopters close to the frontline. Kyiv says it needs more ammo to sustain its offensives both here in
the east and in the south. The U.S. budget impasse could mean further delays. On top of that, NATO is warning its members are running dangerously low themselves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADM. ROB BAUER, CHAIR, NATO'S MILITARY COMMITTEE: We started to get away from half-full or lower warehouses in Europe, and therefore the bottom of the barrel is now visible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN (voice-over): For the Ukrainian artillery troops, that means rationing will probably continue, all while trying to support their advancing soldiers on the ground.
COOPER: And Fred Pleitgen joins us now from eastern Ukraine. When you talk to troops in the field, are they following the political debate in Washington over aid?
PLEITGEN: Yeah, they're following it pretty closely. And I think a lot of the ones that we speak to on the frontline, Anderson, they're pretty shocked at some of the things that they're hearing out of Washington because none of them could ever fathom that the U.S. would be the country whose support could be uncertain at any point in time. Because the support has been so strong and it has been so important also for Ukraine's war effort.
I think one of the things that our viewers would be surprised by, if you go around the battlefield here in eastern Ukraine, is how much U.S. kit is already on the ground here, U.S. vehicles, but then of course also U.S. guns and U.S. ammo as well. And the thing about the ammo is the Ukrainians really say that with the counteroffensive, they need a lot of it. And certainly, NATO countries could replace some of the ammo that the U.S. has been giving, but there is also certain kinds of ammo that only America can get, like for instance HIMARS, guided missiles are very important. And then also for some of those surface-to-air missile systems, that's stuff that only the U.S. can replenish.
So, the Ukrainians certainly acknowledge if U.S. support went away, it would be catastrophic for them on the battlefield. They say they could maybe continue to defend themselves, but they personally would have very big problems making sort of gains on the battlefield in the future then, Anderson.
COOPER: Fred Pleitgen, appreciate it. Thank you, be careful.
Coming up next, the D.A. who is prosecuting the Tupac Shakur murder case on a day more than 27 years in the making, the suspect's first court appearance.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [20:41:35]
COOPER: More than 27 years after rapper Tupac Shakur's murder, a suspect arrested for gunning him down appeared in a Las Vegas court today for the first time. Duane Keith Davis is his name and he is accused for orchestrating the shooting and will be arraigned later this month. A lot of questions certainly about the investigation, about what actually happened and why it took so long for the man -- this man to be arrested. He had not only said he was at the scene of the crime but in the car where the shots that killed Tupac Shakur were fired from.
I'm joined by the Clark County District Attorney, whose office is prosecuting Davis, Steve Wolfson, for his first interview since that arrest. Mr. Wolfson, appreciate you being with us. The arraignment was delayed today because the suspect didn't have a Las Vegas-based attorney. How strong is the case, do you think?
STEVE WOLFSON, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, CLARK COUNTY, NEVADA: Well, thanks, Anderson. First, thanks for having me on your show. I want to start off by saying that Mr. Davis enjoys a presumption of innocence, like any other person charged in this country with a crime. The arraignment was delayed because Mr. Davis said he had retained a lawyer out of California, and we can't arraign a person until they have a lawyer.
COOPER: In terms of the case itself, is there much you can share about why you believe Tupac Shakur was gunned down?
WOLFSON: Well, there has been a lot of talk in the media for the last number of years and of course, recently in the last few weeks. It started with a number of admissions that Mr. Davis has made over the last few years. He participated in a documentary, he co-authored a book, he gave a number of YouTube interviews. So, his admissions really piqued the investigation to look more closely into what was going on. It was brought to my attention.
We then executed a search warrant at Mr. Davis' home where we seized certain items of physical evidence. And after all of those considerations, you know, we wanted to make sure we got it right, Anderson. This is an important case that is getting a lot of attention. So, after we reviewed all of the evidence, we felt comfortable that we should bring this case to a grand jury, which obviously agreed when they returned an indictment.
COOPER: So, even after all this time, 27 years, when you did a search warrant on his house, was there -- I mean, are you saying there was evidence that you will use at trial, which implicates him?
WOLFSON: Yes. A number of physical items of evidence were seized at his house, that will be used. We wanted to gather as much supporting evidence as we could. We didn't want to proceed just with his admissions. Certain witnesses came forward in the last couple of years, so we felt at this point, when we put it all together, that we had a strong enough case to charge Mr. Davis with murder with use of a deadly weapon with a gang enhancement. COOPER: Las Vegas Police have given some details. There was this beating that occurred, a fight that occurred in a casino. Tupac Shakur, Suge Knight were there to see a Mike Tyson fight. This -- there is a -- we're showing the surveillance video of the beating that Tupac Shakur and Suge Knight allegedly took part in. The person who was being kicked on the floor, that is the nephew of the suspect you now have -- that a grand jury has indicted.
I want to play what his nephew said in 1996 in an interview, the man who was beaten there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where you involved in any way in the death of Tupac Shakur?
ORLANDO ANDERSON, NEPHEW OF TUPAC SHAKUR MURDER SUSPECT: No, I was not involved. I mean, I'm like a victim, you know what I'm saying? I feel, you know what I'm saying, sorry for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, I believe he is no longer alive, and Mr. Davis is the only suspect -- or the only person who may have been involved, who is still alive. But he was in the car with his uncle. His uncle was in the front seat when the shots were fired, correct? That's what the evidence shows?
WOLFSON: Yeah, that's true. I don't remember exactly who was sitting where.
WOLFSON: But Mr. Davis was in the car as well as Mr. Anderson. Well, just because one of the accomplices, 25-plus years ago says that he wasn't involved doesn't mean we stop investigating the case. We always continue to investigate the case. And like I said, over the last few years, in particular, with Mr. Davis' admissions, other witnesses coming forward, the gathering of a lot of items of evidence brought us to a point where we felt comfortable charging him with the murder.
COOPER: Steve Wolfson, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
WOLFSON: Thank you, sir.
COOPER: Coming up next, another exclusive report, this time on Commander Biden, the White House dog with a biting problem. Also, more on our top story, the fallout from Kevin McCarthy's ouster being felt back in his home district, in California.
[20:50:30] COOPER: Exclusive reporting on President Biden and First Lady Jill Biden's dog, Commander. Their two-year-old German Shepherd with a biting problem, Kayla Tausche is at the White House. What have you learned about the President's dog?
KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, we're learning just tonight that that dog Commander has been involved in more biting incidents than previously reported. The U.S. Secret Service had acknowledged 11 known incidents involving its personnel that CNN's Betsy Klein is now reporting that the tally is unknown and also includes incidents involving workers in the executive residence and other workers across the White House.
It is unclear if there is a full tally but we know from our reporting that the bites have ranged in severity from at least one requiring hospitalization, a handful requiring treatment from the White House medical unit, and then still others that were unreported and untreated. And despite assertions that the dog would receive training, these incidents have kept happening with the last confirmed bite taking place on Monday.
The Bidens have said they are taking the situation seriously. A White House official confirms that they are and they are consulting with vets, trainers, and other experts. And that Commander is no longer on White House campus as the first family deals with this situation.
COOPER: So, he is -- do we know where he is? What's the White House saying about it?
TAUSCHE: Well, we don't know where he is. We just know that he is not on White House campus currently. A communications director for the first lady confirms that information to CNN and also says the following: She says the following and first lady care deeply about those who work at the White House and those who protect them every day. They remain grateful for the patience and support of the U.S. Secret Service and all involved as they continue to work through solutions. Unclear what the final solution here though will be, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Kayla Tausche, thanks very much. More now on tonight's top story, the fallout from Kevin McCarthy's losing his job as Speaker of the House, specifically how it is playing back in his district in Bakersfield, California. CNN's Kyung Lah talked with voters there.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Pyrenee's Cafe, a historic stop in Bakersfield, Kevin McCarthy's local supporters watching this historic moment in Washington unfold, starring District 20's favorite son, who is now the third shortest- term speaker in American history.
LAH (on camera): What does this mean for Republicans if this fighting continues? In the long run.
ROD CRAWFORD, CO-OWNER, PYRENEE'S CAFE: It will be our downfall.
LAH (voice-over): In McCarthy's home district, agriculture and oil production dominate the landscape here. The central valley remains a red island in the blue sea of the state's politics. McCarthy is the embodiment of a national success story of an overlooked region. The son of a firefighters, born and raised, who went to school here, fighting his way out and to the top, but always someone who came home.
CRAWFORD: He always seems to have our best interests at heart.
LAH (on camera): What do you think about this fighting amongst one party?
CRAWFORD: I feel like it is -- there is a -- it is a child that's kicking and screaming because he is not getting his way. And I think that Kevin is doing the best job that he can.
LAH (voice-over): This process is especially agonizing in this room.
CATHY ABERNATHY, MCCARTHY HOMETOWN ALLY: Wow! Yeah. I was hoping. I was just writing to Kevin's people.
LAH (voice-over): Cathy Abernathy is one of McCarthy's staunchest supporters back home. She hired him for his first political job out of college, helped him win office after office, and remains a family friend.
ABERNATHY: Well, he fought so hard -- Kevin fought so hard to get that majority. That's what is the biggest problem with what they're doing, it is not just his leadership which they can't argue with, but with his leadership and raising the funds, going to all the states, winning the seats that gave us this majority.
LAH (voice-over): But there is a silver lining for McCarthy and his party, says moderate Republican Mark Anthony Raimondo.
LAH (on camera): Do you think you would ever vote for him again?
MARK ANTHONY RAIMONDO, REPUBLICAN, BAKERSFIELD RESIDENT: REPUBLICAN: Yeah. He's getting -- he is winning me back over.
LAH (voice-over): Raimondo didn't vote for McCarthy last year because of how he says McCarthy bowed to former president Donald Trump after the January 6th insurrection. Defying Congressman Matt Gaetz and the rest of the right flank shows moderate
says Raimondo that Trump's grip may be loosening on the party and on Kevin McCarthy.
RAIMONDO: He's kind of like your alcoholic uncle who (inaudible) couple of weeks. You just -- you miss him a lot. You want to hang out with him but you're not exactly sure he is going to stay the course.
We hope he does.
LAH (on camera): He stays off the bottle.
RAIMONDO: Stays off the Trump bottle, yes. That would be great.
LAH (on camera): There are approximately 14,000 federal workers who live here in McCarthy's district and for them, they are, yes, watching this drama playing out in Washington but they actually need Congress to fund this government. Those employees who work for the FAA, the military bases, and those federal contractors, they need a Speaker of the House because they need this government to function. Anderson?
COOPER: Kyung, thanks so much. Coming up next, I'm going to make you smile at the end of a long day. Maybe the best video you'll see at least today, ahead.
COOPER: It is only Wednesday and quite a week, but we can all rejoice, Fat Bear Week is finally here. Take a look at this live camera view from Alaska's Katmai National Park and Preserve where the competition has begun for this year's chunkiest brown bear. The bracket match-ups are set. To some, it might be right up there with NCAA March Madness, but you get to decide who makes it to the next round.
You go to fatbearweek.org daily to cast your vote for the 12 big bears who were picked for the single elimination competition. Only one will be crowned champion. For these bears, there is no fat shaming. They have been bulking up for a good reason.