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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Israel Requests Precision-Guided Bombs And Interceptors From U.S.; Israel Continues Striking Gaza; Hamas Has Fired 4,000 Plus Rockets At Israel; U.S. Still Seeking To Determine Iran's Connection To Israel Attack; Families Desperate To Find Missing Festival Goers; Interview With Father Missing In Israel Gilad Peretz; Interview With Father-In-Law Missing In Israel Jessica Cohen Peretz; Interview With Former Israeli Ambassador To The U.S. Michael Oren; Families Seek Information On Missing Loved Ones; Interview With Former U.S. Assistant Secretary For Homeland Security Juliette Kayyem; Interview With Former Department Middle East Negotiator Aaron David Miller; Interview With NPR International Correspondent Daniel Estrin. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 08, 2023 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They have called up tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of reservists all ready to be called up.
I'll just give you an example of just how much of this is affecting the rest of the country. Here in Jerusalem, which hasn't had, you know, that many -- as many rocket attacks as other areas or haven't been major impacts here, the hospitals have essentially stopped things like elective surgeries. This is not only to prepare, I think, for injuries to come in, but also to allow staff members to go and to be called up for reserve duty because of the number of reservists who are going to be called up.
Now, a ground invasion -- a ground incursion into Gaza will be very difficult to do because this is one of the most densely populated places on the planet. The Hamas network has multiple tunnels that go underneath most of the Gaza Strip. And they often hold their weapons and hold their senior officials in sensitive places like mosques, like schools and like hospitals.
And so, when the Israeli military is striking locations there, they're not only going to have to be careful, of course, for civilians, who in Gaza, unfortunately, always get caught up in the crossfire, but they're also going to have to be incredibly aware of their own hostages, because Hamas has already said that they have distributed these hostages across locations, across Gaza. Kaitlan, they're essentially using them as human shields.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Yes. And we know U.S. officials believe Americans are also part of the group of hostages. Hadas Gold, thank you for that update.
More from here next as our special coverage is continuing of Israel now formally at war tonight.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: About 35 minutes until sunrise here in Tel Aviv, two days into the worst military challenge that Israel has faced since the October war which began like this one with a surprise attack that left the country shaken but certainly not broken.
COLLINS: Certainly, it is shaken tonight as Israeli defense forces say that they have been spending these hours of darkness hitting targets by air, and they say that they have "severely degraded the capabilities of Hamas." The IDF adding that it has targeted a structure that houses Hamas operatives in several of their operational command centers.
COOPER: Hamas, for its part, continues to fire rockets into Israel. The latest barrage targeting several locations, including Ashkelon, where two managed to get through the Iron Dome, with one hitting a local building. Hamas also claiming to still be attacking targets within Israel and says it took more hostages today, bringing the total it claims to hold more than 100. Israel has not said how many hostages they believe are being held at this point.
And, Kaitlan, with the IDF now saying its mission is to completely disarm Hamas as a fighting force with strikes on Gaza being just the first step, all eyes, certainly today would be on what the next move may be.
COLLINS: Yes. And what that looks like. And, Anderson, of course, as we wait to see what Israel's next step is, I want to bring in CNN's Sam Kiley for a look at how all of this could play out.
Sam, obviously, as Israel is retaliating against Hamas, I mean, what are they potentially facing? Do you believe that a full-scale ground invasion of Gaza is possible, and even likely here?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly possible but it -- and it is highly likely. The problem is that is so fraught with the obvious danger, danger to military personnel, danger to Gaza's civilian's population, and then danger of ignition. And this is precisely what Hamas wants to see, ignition of a wider conflict, perhaps seeing an uprising on the West Bank, an uprising between -- involving Israel's Palestinian, ethnic Palestinian population, and then potentially some kind of attack emanating from Southern Lebanon from Hezbollah.
Now, not all of those things are certain. But they are much, much more likely the more violence is unleashed by Israel in pursuit of not only revenge, but of the rescue of, as you rightly point out, not just the 100 or plus hostages that Hamas claims to have, but the 30 plus that the Palestinian Islamic jihad have, both of the movements, of course, backed by Iran. And then the critical issue is what will the Iranians do or rather perhaps, what will Israel do if they see the fingerprints of Tehran all over the planning for this atrocity -- these ongoing atrocities, according to Hamas, that are still being unleashed on the state there.
COLLINS: Yes. And on the potential for wider conflict here, I mean, that is a big primary concern from U.S. officials tonight. They said that to lawmakers when they had an unclassified briefing earlier. You heard President Biden warning others not to take advantage of this situation. I mean, how far does a warning like that go, and what are the primary concerns here?
KILE: Well, the primary concern for Hezbollah will be, first of all, the pressure it might come under from Iran. Iran is essentially, as Peter Bergen was saying on CNN earlier, on today, it's essentially a branch of the Iranian foreign policy machinery. But at the same time, the Hezbollah, which has hundreds of thousands of rockets that could be very, very catastrophic for Israel, knows that Israel's response would be absolutely devastating to the whole country.
So, Lebanon is in no fit state to weather any kind of storm, let alone a massive storm of ordinance that the Israelis would unleash. And they've made that very, very clear. So, that is the worst-case scenario from both party's perspective. But there's a long way to go before getting to that position because, of course, you've got to get troops in there.
I think probably -- and Hadas was suggesting, perhaps that this is part of their planning, potentially a very large number of troops. The more troops you send in, perhaps the less amount of casualties you risk ironically because you actually simply swarm the place and overflood it with Israeli troops
But then, of course, you've got to get out, and you cannot kill the idea of resistance against what is Hamas calls the Jewish entity.
COLLINS: Yes. That's what Robin Wright (ph) was also noting earlier. Sam Kiley, thank you. Anderson.
COOPER: Kaitlan, as we mentioned at the top, Hamas is claiming it took more hostages today, and says its forces are still conducting operations in Southern Israel. We can't confirm whether more hostages were actually taken today. Though Israel has said the IDF spokesperson told me shorty time ago, they are not in full control of their territory along the border.
One of the missing, Mark Parot (ph), was taken after rushing to the music festival to try to save his daughter Maya (ph). Earlier tonight, I spoke with Mark's son, Gilad, and daughter-in-law, Jessica.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Let me just saying, I'm so sorry we're talking under these circumstances. I just want to talk to you about what has happened over the last 39 or so hours. Your -- Gilad, your sister, Maya (ph), was at the dance where we know some -- according to the Israeli government, more than 260 people were slaughtered. She escaped, but your dad went looking for her. Can you explain what happened? GILAD PERETZ, FATHER MISSING IN ISRAEL: Yes. So, my sister, she was like one of like many, like, let's say 2,000, approximately, kids and like young adults that went to the festival in the south, nearby Gaza, near to (INAUDIBLE). There was like a festival there. And she went with her friends to have fun, to party there. Enjoy. And we woke up Saturday morning in 6:30 during the alert of the bombs, running to the shelter. And my dad, Mark, he understood that Maya (ph) is -- like she's missing.
So, we tried to reach out to her. He called her. Like, he tried to communicate. And he called her on the cell phone and he heard the screams, he heard the shots, he understands that it's something bigger than what we thought.
Usually, we got to -- we know how to deal with the rockets. In country, we have shelters. We have specific orders and things that we know what to do in situations with rockets. But when we started to figure out that Hamas terrorists just crossed the borders through the air, through the ocean, through the board, the gate itself, my father understood that my little sister going to be kidnapped soon. So, he decided to take the car and drive south.
COOPER: So, your dad, like a lot of -- we've heard stories of a lot of dads who got into cars to go and try and find and help their children who were in hiding or at this festival. Your dad, Mark, went to try to find your sister, Maya (ph), and help her. She had actually found -- she had escaped from the festival, hidden for several hours, and then got to a police station where she stayed, and she ended up being able to make her way home, but your dad now has gone missing. When was the last time you had contact with him?
G. PERETZ: So, basically what happened, my dad reached to the south of Israel around 8:30. He achieved to the area when it's like danger zone. It's a battlefield there. He made it to Gaza. And at 8:48, we lost contact, like the communication with him.
I was with my dad on the phone. I called him to see what's going on at the time. And I heard shots, and he tried to say, like, don't shoot, I'm Israeli, don't shoot and I'm not the terrorist. And we lost the service. We lost the contact with him in 8:48. He was nearby something like two kilometers away from the festival.
During this time on the second line, I'm with my sister, and she's reporting to me all the time that they are escaping for their life. She -- like three friends with her, running between the bananas fields and stuff like that.
JESSICA COHEN PERETZ, FATHER-IN-LAW MISSING IN ISRAEL: Hiding in bushes.
G. PERETZ: Hiding in bushes, jumping around the rocks, hiding in trash, and like trucks and stuff like that.
COOPER: So, wait, Gilad, at the same time that you're talking to your dad on the one hand, and he's, you know, telling you where he is, and then, obviously, there's some bad situation he's in, you're also in communication with your sister who's still running and hiding?
G. PERETZ: Yes. Yes. At the secondhand, I'm speaking with my sister that she is running and hiding. And some point, at 8:48, we lost -- I lost communication with my dad and I figure -- I understood that he might be kidnapped or dead in this moment.
So, I tried to leave it on the side and focus on my sister to bring her back and help her through the phone, try to guide her with the maps and whatever I can to bring her. And she got lucky. She found out like a farmer car driving from the fields of the fruits and the vegetables there to central city, and the sound, of course, of hakim (ph).
There she rescued to a police station. They stay there for at least two hours, and they brought her back to the center of Israel to home.
J. PERETZ: One of her friend's dad was able reached the police station to take her home.
G. PERETZ: And at this point --
COOPER: How is she doing now?
G. PERETZ: That's how situation for her. That's how situation. We don't have any -- I don't think she need to be -- we tried to make her feel that nothing of this like it's her fault. And she -- we all around now the mission that trying to track what happened to my father. We try to find people that maybe saw him in the shelter or something in the south.
My mission now is to try to get to any screen and eyes in the south that everything is trying all sorts that now inside of Israel I'm trying reach out to him, show him a picture of my dad that maybe he saw him. Yet --
COOPER: We'll obviously show a picture of your dad, Mark. The last communication you had from him was, what, around that 8:48 time?
G. PERETZ: Yes, 8:48 in the morning yesterday. And since then, we didn't heard from him, and no one that saw him. But today, we started -- we succeed to track his phone after --
J. PERETZ: It's important to say that (INAUDIBLE) police is really busy in the south, and all of the force there in the south. We decided to like contact the company that Mark works for and see if they have any leaders on his phone, and they were able to track some locations where his phone was at. But it didn't lead us to anything specific. It didn't lead us to a shelter that he might be and that we can go check.
And the phone still seems to be in the south. His car seems to be in the south. He's not in his car, but it's all just question marks and we're really just looking for answers and --
COOPER: Is his phone still pinging or when was the last time you got some sort of location of his phone?
G. PERETZ: We got two locations to his phone, one, two hours after the -- after we -- after the last contact we have with him. So, we find him two miles south from the point he was. And I'm assuming that he tried to walk most south to reach to my sister. He tried to walk to find her in the festival zone. But he figured out that none of the people that stay there at this point. And after that, we got another location, three or four hours later, that he was on the second side of the zone.
COOPER: So, his phone has been on the move. You're not sure if he's with his phone or you haven't actually heard from him? You just -- that was the last signal. That was around, like, what, 1:00 on Saturday, 1:00 p.m. or so?
G. PERETZ: Yes. 1:00 p.m. in Saturday. That's the last track.
COOPER: This is obviously a very fluid situation. There are still fighting going on, on the ground, around border areas. Have you been in contact with Israeli authorities? Have they been helpful or are they overwhelmed at this moment?
G. PERETZ: Yes. I would say that the first hours was very shocking for all of us, and it took some time. But by the first night, the Israeli authorities contacted us and then we came to the center to give DNA samples. For me, I gave DNA samples that maybe will combining with some of the dead bodies or like injured people that they found, and maybe they can recognize people without their I.D.s or maybe they cannot recognize, you know, for some reasons. So, we gave all the information we had, and we have full contact with the Israeli authorities.
COOPER: What do you want people to know about your dad?
G. PERETZ: My dad is a fighter. I'm sure. I'm trying to stay positive.
COOPER: He sure sounds like one.
G. PERETZ: He's a family guy. He just tried to go save his daughter. Life will go on. I hope with him. We miss him.
COOPER: Well, there are millions of people around the world who are watching whose hearts go out to you and to your family and to all of those who are suffering at this hour. Thank you for being with us. We'll continue to follow this, and I hope you get word about your dad very soon.
G. PERETZ: Amen.
J. PERETZ: Thank you so much for having us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So many families waiting for word on their loved ones. Joining me now is Michael Oren, Israel's former ambassador to the United States. Ambassador, appreciate you being with us tonight. I want to talk big picture in a moment. But just first, for families whose loved ones have been taken hostage, what has Israel learned in the past through hostage situations about what may happen now with these hostages?
MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Hi, Anderson. Good morning to you. Well, we've learned that Hamas will hold onto these hostages. Some will be killed. Many will be tortured. But generally, Hamas wants to hold on to these hostages and use them as bargaining chips. Chips to get terrorists out of Israeli jails, also to use them as human shields. And I think they would be very effective as human shields
There's tremendous pressure on the government from the public to mount a ground operation against Gaza. Virtually, every round of fighting we have with Hamas and Gaz there is a type of growing pressure by the public that we don't go back to the status quo ante of just, you know, waiting on the border, waiting for more rockets to come over, and then there's a cease fire.
No, the Israeli public wants a change now, but it will be a major, I think, impairment, a major hitch on Israeli decision-making. How do you send an army into Gaza when Hamas and Islamic jihad are holding as many as 130 Israeli hostages?
COOPER: Has something -- I mean, have the capabilities of Hamas and Islamic jihad significantly changed? I mean, is this a sign that there has been a change in their capabilities? Is it greater support from their backers in Iran? What do you think it is that has enabled them to coordinate this kind of an attack from air, from sea, from land?
OREN: Well, there's some evidence of improvement in their missile technology and it's the ability to evade the Iron Dome system. And the Iron Dome system is not a perfect system. It's only 90 percent effective. But it can be overwhelmed. And if you're firing thousands of rockets at the same time, no antiballistic system can completely defend any skies, certainly not Israel's skies from that type of onslaught.
But I think, tactically there's been a great improvement by Hamas, and I think you have to describe that improvement to Iranian backing. We know that, for example, 90, 95 percent of the rockets that are fired from Gaza are actually made in Iran, and the remainder are made by Iranian-trained Palestinian engineers. So, Iran is very deeply involved in Gaza.
Islamic jihad is wholly owned and operated by Iran, and Hamas is deeply financed and supported by Iran. So, I think it's very reasonable to assume that Iran was intimately involved with this, perhaps the Al Quds Force, perhaps the Revolutionary Guards have been involved in this. There are rumors floating around Israel, and only rumors, Anderson, that some of the Palestinian terrorists were heard speaking Farsi.
COOPER: At this point, I mean, Israel's prime minister has vowed mighty vengeance for Hamas's actions. What do you see taking place? I mean, what does that look like?
OREN: Well, it would be a ground incursion to actually remove Hamas, remove its military capabilities, perhaps remove it entirely. Israel right now -- and I cannot stress this enough, and you heard this now from this wonderful family of Mark that Israel now is in a state of shock. It's in a state of mourning.
We're all in our bomb shelters. None of us are sleeping. Though you have books behind me, this is my house bomb shelter and my kids are in bomb shelters, grand kids are in bomb shelters. We're all in deep shock and mourning. But there's also a sense that we must restore order to our borders, security to our borders. We must return these hostages, and we must not return to the status quo that existed before this. And there seems to be no alternative to changing that status quo other than a large-scale ground incursion.
Now, in previous rounds, we've had semi deep incursions. They haven't gone all the way -- the Israeli forces haven't gone all the way into Gaza. Back in 2014, they only went several kilometers into Gaza, but they actually haven't gone into Gaza City itself. This would be a brutal, brutal battle. We're talking about not just, you know, village, house-to-house, alley to alley, but all of these houses and alleys are booby-trapped and wired and mined. Hamas is prepared for that.
And then, as your reporter mentioned earlier, Israel has to consider the possibility of a multi-front war. And I think that's a very real possibility. It's hard for me to imagine, Anderson, that Hassan Nasrallah, the head of Hezbollah, will watch passively while Israel invades Gaza. He'll also try to be involved. It's almost inconceivable to me that Hamas in (INAUDIBLE), the West Bank will remain passive if Israel or other forces enter Gaza. I'm not even sure whether radical forces among Israeli Arabs will remain passive. And we may have internal upheaval as well.
And Israeli's decisionmakers have to determine, can we invade Gaza and further jeopardize the lives of those hostages who are being used as human shields by Hamas? They use their own people as human shields. They're certainly going to use the Israelis as human shields. And is the army and the people of Israel prepared to face this massive multifront massive challenge to our security?
COOPER: Ambassador Michael Oren, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
OREN: Stay safe. Thank you.
COOPER: You too.
Coming up next, more on the rockets by now thousands of them fired into Southern Israel. We'll take a closer look at where they are being targeted from and what targets they have been hitting, targets that translate into homes and families. Also, take a look. This is Noah Argamani caught on video, begging to be let go. She and her boyfriend abducted at that music festival. Her family desperate for her safe return at this hour. We'll hear from them ahead.
COOPER: You can see dawn breaking here in Tel Aviv. It's almost 6:30 in the morning here on Monday morning. There's no telling what the day will hold. This war began with Hamas launching a massive rocket attack into Israel from Gaza. Now, that attack continued overnight, could continue for as long as the rocket supplies last. For more -- and their capabilities last. For more on what those capacities maybe, to the extent that we know, here's CNN's Tom Foreman.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, as Hamas has been raining rockets down on Israel, all the way down here, all the way up to Tel Aviv, in this area, many experts have been looking and saying exactly how many do they have. How long can they do this?
One estimate has been that it's been between 6 and 10,000 rockets in the hands of Hamas here. This is completely guess work. Every expert will tell you that. They believe it actually may be much higher. But for want of knowing any better, they're starting with this. It used to be that when Hamas was getting these -- a lot of the supplies they needed, came in through Egypt, smuggled in through Sudan, up here. Now, largely, it is being home grown, all made right here in this roughly 6-mile by 25-mile stretch of land here that is Gaza.
And one of the things that is known about what's been happening with those rockets is that by and large, over the years, they have been getting more accurate, better range, and much more powerful. So, when we look at the types of rockets they have, one of these things these experts note is that they have the biggest numbers, thousands of them down here, generally in the Qassam rockets. These are shorter range, maybe six to 12, 18 miles, something like that. The midgrade rockets, they tend to get more into maybe 1,600 to 2,000. Again, I'm telling you, all of these numbers are very sketchy, but just to give you a general sense of what a study 10 years ago found by the Israeli Defense Force.
But then, when you talk about the top range ones here, the ones that would the most control, the most accuracy, the longest range can carry a 400-pound, 500-pound warhead maybe, these are going to be the ones that they maybe only have in the tens (ph) if any of these numbers actually make sense. Again, they're just a point of reference.
What we do know about this is that the way these rockets are used absolutely shapes the battlefield, if you want to call it that. Although, we're talking about a civilian area out here. These are all -- the ones where there's been so much of the ground fighting with actual people coming out here, militants coming out of Gaza to attack civilian populations, that's happening in these areas. That fall easily under the range of their shortest-range rockets, the ones that have the least amount of accuracy, but the ones that they have the most of, the most that they can fill the sky with to try to overcome the Iron Dome system, and truly rain terror down on people in these areas. Anderson.
COOPER: Tom, thanks very much.
Joining me now is CNN National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem, also Aaron David Miller, former State Department Middle East analyst and negoriator. I want to go to Kaitlan Collins who's going to handle this. Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Thanks, Anderson. Yes. And, Juliette, of course, it's great to have you here. I know that you've been watching how all of this has unfolded. And I think one thing that just stands out to everyone is how this attack has totally punctured this sense of invincibility that Israel seemed to have. And when you look at the broad view of this, and other intelligence failures, how bad is this one, and what did Israeli intelligence miss here?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Yes. So, I wrote that it was not just an intelligence failure, it was an everything failure. This is a tragedy for Israel. So, my focus on their faults and what they miss is only because they need to learn what happened.
Here you have a terrorist organization on your border that Israeli counterterrorism is extensive. They infiltrate Hamas. They pay people to give them information. They have signal intelligence. They have human intelligence. They are watching. It is hard to train -- it's hard for terrorists to train, to get in large groups. So, what's remarkable about what happened is that hundreds of men were able to train. We don't know if they had help from another nation, used parachutes, which you really can't train for in Gaza. You would be seen by Israelis, and infiltrate Israel, and that's part one of the bad story for Israel.
Part two is that their response was, at best, flat-footed. There were just too many images on TV. The Israelis are talking about it. People asking for help, begging for help, and it's just taking hours for that to occur. Israel lives by its strength, by its military strength because it knows it has enemies around it. That strength has literally been punctured but it has also symbolically been punctured, because it was that aura of strength that kept as much as possible enemies at bay.
COLLINS: And that's what Netanyahu has been known for. He's synonymous with that. He prides himself on that. And, Aaron David Miller, I mean, when you look at the complexity of this attack, it seems to indicate that it would have required a lot of planning. I mean, how much do you estimate went into this when it comes to cyber activity, munitions buildup, everything that we saw play out on Saturday?
AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: Well, clearly months, Kaitlan. And if the reports are credible, "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting today that Hamas officials, both in Lebanon and outside the country, met with IRG officials and the Iranians had a key role in directing this attack.
I think Juliette's right, but I would only add one point. This was a failure of imagination. 50 years ago this week, last week, I was in Israel. I heard the sirens wail when Egypt and Syria attacked. There's an eerie reminiscence, strangeness about the magnitude of this intelligence failure. And just like in '73, the Israelis underestimate the capacity of Hamas to do this as an organized campaign.
This was not -- this was a military campaign. But in terms of its intentions, it was a massive terrorist assault against civilians. And I think to a large degree, the Israelis never believed Hamas would -- even though the Israelis were familiar with tunnelling both across the Lebanese border and tunnelling in Hamas, I don't think they ever believed that Hamas had the capability or at this time, the incentive to carry out a plan as bold and as radical as this. It's a failure of imagination and a failure of operational competency in terms of how many Israeli units were deployed in those areas, approximate to the Gaza.
COLLINS: Well, Aaron, quickly, you mentioned the timing there. I mean, it's hard not to see the reminiscent in the surprise attack, how this was conducted. Do you think that Hamas is trying to kind of tap into a national terror with the timing of this?
MILLER: You know, Hamas's motives here are, I think, much harder to divine. I think Hamas, frankly, wanted to break out of the Gaza straightjacket. They were very upset with the conditions that the Israelis had imposed. The Emirates had not delivered the monthly payments of $10 million. They have cut it to three.
But by and large, I think it was more than that. Hamas wanted to demonstrate that it alone has the capacity to inflict tremendous pain through terror and disrupt Israeli normalcy. This is to me is the biggest crisis with respect to what's occurred. A government's power and its capacity, credibility and legitimacy rests on its capacity to delivery normalcy and security to its citizens.
MILLER: And we have now three days after now, the Israelis still have not succeeded in clearing those areas.
COLLINS: Well -- and on that front, and there is such a complete absence of that feeling of security. Juliette, you know, just last week Jake Sullivan, President Biden's national security adviser, I remember he was saying, you know, the Middle East is quieter than it has been in two decades. I mean, he added a major caveat there, saying that was for right now and he's saying that all of it could change. Obviously, all of it has. The U.S. does rely on Israel for intelligence. How does this affect that?
KAYYEM: Oh, it will affect it tremendously only because what we know now is that Israel's knowledge of what was happening within Hamas or any other terrorist organization was not strong. I mean, it disappeared (ph). There's just no way that you can have an organized attack like this without there being some communication that could have been picked up by Israel or even us.
Some explanations may include that really went sort of low tech, that they were doing this old school, that they were communicating with each other, that they couldn't be intercepted. But our intelligence gathering has been impacted.
Right now, Israel has to get Hamas out of their borders. They have to secure the border and then regroup on rebuilding their counterterrorism efforts however they're going to look in the future.
COLLINS: Yes. Serious challenges. Juliette Kayyem, Aaron David Miller, thank you both for joining me tonight.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
MILLER: Thank you.
COLLINS: Up next, Anderson will be joined by a reporter who has been covering the region and the conflict for more than a decade and was there when the war broke out.
COOPER: And welcome back to our continuing coverage from here in Tel Aviv. Obviously, this is a very fast-moving situation. We are not sure obviously what will occur over the next couple of hours. Israeli forces say as of about two hours ago when we spoke to the IDF that they are still not in full control of the security situation. It is still very fluid along the border.
Daniel Estrin is a reporter from NPR who has been here for -- how long have you been here?
DANIEL ESTRIN, NPR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: About 15 years.
COOPER: Fifteen years.
ESTRIN: I'm with NPR for about six years.
COOPER: So, in terms of how this compares to other conflicts, what is the difference?
ESTRIN: There's no comparison. I mean, we have seen escalation after war after a round of conflict with Gaza, every year, every couple of years. But when I woke up on Saturday morning and, you know, it was a beautiful Saturday morning, and suddenly hearing the air-raid sirens and running into the reinforced room in our apartment, loud booms, that we've even, you know, experienced. But what happened next is something we have never seen. This is unprecedented and I cannot describe just the depth of the incredible numbness and just astonishment of Israelis and Palestinians I've been speaking with. COOPER: Is -- I mean, people here are used to the rockets, and obviously, it's a sickening fact of life and a terrible fact of life, but it's something that is known. This situation is something many people here just have not seen before, that the hostage taking, the ground incursions.
ESTRIN: Oh, yes. I mean, this was Hamas coming in mad max style, on motorcycles, on pickup trucks, on paragliders, by sea. I mean, this is something that I think no Israeli would have thought would have happened, you know, with Israel's incredibly strong military intelligence and guards along the border. I mean, Israel has praised itself for the new border wall along Gaza that even includes an underground wall to prevent Hamas from tunnelling in.
And here, you know, just in broad daylight, they came through. And the situation -- I mean, the pictures and the videos that were seeing coming out that Hamas is publishing are things that are continuing to be shocking for people here.
COOPER: 48 hours later, since this attack, it's occurred around 6:30 a.m. starting Saturday morning, the IDF says they were still not in full control, that there are still isolated pockets of individuals or several people.
COOPER: Maybe some who've just got left behind who weren't able to make it in the back, making last stands or still trying to get back, that they are still not -- it's not secure.
ESTRIN: That's right. Yes. They're still saying that there are still militants holed up in several cities, in several communities along the border. I have been witnessed to some incredibly moving stories by Israelis, both Jewish Israelis and Palestinian citizens of Israel who lost loved ones. I met them at the hospital in Soroka Medical Center, that's the main hospital in Israel South, next to these events.
We met some people who -- first of all, a Palestinian citizen of Israel whose sister was picking vegetables along the border when Hamas gunmen came up and she said, I'm Arab, and she was shot at point-blank range. I ran into an old professor of mine from Brandeis University where I did my undergraduate degree, near Boston, Ilan Troen. He is a professor of Israel studies, and he was standing at foot of his grandson's bed, and his daughter and his son-in-law had been killed this their safe room, in their reinforced room in their home at Kibbutz, in an area right next to the Gaza border.
He said that his daughter and son-in-law were shot. They had flung themselves over their son to protect him, and the bullet went through them, and hit his stomach. And I mean, these are -- and then, of course, Ilan Troen, the professor told me that for hours they were on the phone with their grandson as he was hiding where gunmen were coming back into the home. I mean, these are just excruciating, excruciating stories. And we are -- what's astonishing is that Israel usually is providing so much information, numbers of deaths, what's going on. The bulk of the information we have been getting actually is from the Hamas videos that they have been publishing of captives inside Gaza. It's really extraordinary.
COOPER: And the look of terror on the captives' faces, it's -- you know, it's shocking, and that is a situation which is very much ongoing. Daniel, I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us.
ESTRIN: Thank you.
DILANIAN (on camera): Thank you. Daniel Estrin with NPR. We -- let's go back to Kaitlan. Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Yes. Just amazing to hear that perspective on that, Anderson. Of course, up next, we're going to speak with the father of one of those missing festival goers. Of course, she has been in the videos that you have seen, a look of anguish on her face as she is taken away from this festival where she was. That story back in a moment.
COLLINS: Tonight, we've been bringing you stories of families who are desperate to find their loved ones who were at a music festival in Israel near the Gaza border, dancing, having fun with their friends until gunfire rang out. The music was replaced by screams of terror and the festival goers started running, running for their live, but where they were going, not really clear.
Some of them were abducted by Hamas militants. The terrifying moments were caught on video, and that includes Noah Argamani and her boyfriend. CNN's Becky Anderson spoke with Noah's father and she filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR (voiceover): The unspeakable anguish of a father, describing the moment he saw a video posted on social media of his daughter pleading for her life.
It was Noah, frightened and threatened, he says.
ANDERSON: I'm so sorry.
YAKOV ARGAMANI, FATHER OF KIDNAPPED DAUGHTER: It's OK.
ANDERSON: I'm so, so sorry.
ARGAMANI: Thank you. It's OK.
ANDERSON: I'm so sorry.
ANDERSON (voiceover): You don't want to believe it, even though you can clearly see it's your daughter. He now wants this video to be seen widely.
25-year-old Noah Argamani seen here on the back of a motorcycle being driven away. Her boyfriend, Avinatan Or, is seen here with two men holding his hands behind his back. A dark plume of smoke can be seen in the background. They'd been among the more than 1,000 people partying at an all-night music festival in Southern Israel near the Gaza border when it was raided by armed mass militants early on Saturday morning.
Her father says Noah and Avinatan were kidnapped. Their whereabouts unknown, but are assumed to be held in Gaza.
I'm so sad at this moment. She is my only daughter.
And Yakov's pain mirrored by so many others, parents, family members, wives, husbands, filled with horror and despair thinking about the fate of their loved ones. In this video that's been circulating widely online, a woman is seen in the back of the truck as a militant puts a scarf over her head. CNN has not been able to independently verify it.
But Yoni Asher, a resident of the Sharon (ph) Region told CNN his wife and two daughters, age five and three, were visiting their grandmother near the Gaza border. He lost contact with them on Saturday morning and suspected they may have been abducted.
Later that day, his suspicions confirmed when he saw the video. The woman was his wife. He told CNN he wants the video to be shown in the hopes of getting them home safely.
YONI ASHER: There was no doubt in my mind I recognized them surely. My wife, my two daughters, my two little daughters that were on this cart. So, I know for sure that they were taken.
ANDERSON (voiceover): The Israel Defense Forces told CNN it's taking pains to establish the exact number of hostages taken, emphasizing the complicated nature of the situation. So far, they estimate there are dozens, possibly more in captivity.
Yakov has a message to whoever is holding his daughter. You have casualties, just like we do. This is an opportunity to connect between the two nations, to reach an honest peace.
For now, Yakov sits at home and waits for news, taking comfort from his family and Noah's friends.
She is a very special kid, so loving, so giving. I miss her so much. It's only been two and a half days. I cannot believe she is gone, he says. She made this house so alive. I feel like this house is empty without her.
Becky Anderson, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: She made this house so alive. That is one family's pain, and that pain is echoed in thousands of families all across this country tonight as they are mourning the loss of their children, their parents, their grandparents, those who are still missing.
Kaitlan, we'll continue to follow it all throughout the day and tomorrow night as our coverage continues.
COLLINS: Yes, of course. I mean, the pain felt by Noah's father, Jessica Miranda (ph), all of those that you've have spoken tonight is just amplified by so many, of course. We will be covering it all, Anderson. The news continues right now after a short break.