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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Biden Returning From Israel, Will Address Nation On War Tomorrow Night; Biden Warns Israel Not To Make Mistakes; Biden: Egypt Agreed To Allow 20 Trucks Of Humanitarian Aid to Gaza. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired October 18, 2023 - 20:00   ET


VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Temps only show off on the world stage for about five minutes before becoming lost to world history.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Putin and Xi, possibly leaders for life, predicting a global power shift, the decline of democracy, the rise of strongman rule.


RIPLEY (on camera): You can hear in Vladimir Putin's interview, the disdain he has for democratically elected leaders and President Biden has said that this battle, Erin, between democracy and autocracy will be the defining battle of this century.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Will, thank you very much, and thanks so much to all of you for joining us. AC 360 starts now.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: It is 3:00 AM in Tel Aviv, exactly 24 hours from now, President Biden will address Americans from the Oval Office. The White House made that announcement shortly after he wrapped up his brief visit here to the region. The president met with -- well, according to his press secretary, Karine Jean-Pierre, the president will focus his primetime remarks on Hamas' attacks, as well as Russia's war in Ukraine.

At a refueling stop in Germany, CNN's Kevin Liptak asked the president if he was disappointed. Let's listen.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. Look, I came to get something done, I got it done.


COOPER: Part of that appears to be an agreement with Egypt's President El-Sisi, whom he spoke with by phone instead of meeting face-to-face in Amman. The president saying that El-Sisi agreed to open Egypt's Rafah Crossing into Gaza to humanitarian aid. He also reaffirmed the American intelligence assessment that Israel was not responsible for the hospital explosion, something Israeli officials citing their own intelligence assets underscored throughout the day.


EYLON LEVY, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESPERSON: As time moves on, it's clear that what happened last night is not a murder mystery, but really an open shut case and the evidence really is incontrovertible that it was a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket misfired from inside the Gaza Strip and landed in the parking lot of that hospital.


COOPER: Israel's neighbors though remain unconvinced. Tens of thousands of protesters turned out today and tonight on the streets from neighboring countries with large demonstrations in several locations in Jordan and Morocco, and with that anger rising, the State Department late today sent a cable to all US embassies and consulates around the world, the message ordering embassies to conduct emergency security reviews in light of current events.

To the question where events might lead in what Israeli officials today warn could be a long war, President Biden offered these words today.


BIDEN: I understand and many Americans understand, you can't look at what has happened here to your mothers, your fathers, your grandparents, sons, daughters, children, even babies, and not scream out for justice. Justice must be done.

But I caution this while you feel that rage, don't be consumed by it. After 9/11, we were enraged in the United States. While we sought justice and got justice, we also made mistakes.


COOPER: In a moment, my conversation with former Israeli prime minister, Ehud Barak, and also a frankly chilling report on the level of planning and the extensive intelligence that Hamas put into the murders and kidnappings that began this war.

First though, everything we know about how Israel and American intelligence determined who was behind last night's tragedy at Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital. CNN's Alex Marquardt has that.


ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The explosion rocked northern Gaza and lit up the night sky, another angle appearing to show according to a CNN analysis, a rocket fired from inside Gaza, it explodes in the air, and seconds later, a blast is seen at the Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital.

CNN has not determined definitively that the rocket and the explosion are related. But in Tel Aviv today, President Joe Biden said US intelligence matches Israel's version of what happened. BIDEN: Based on the information we've seen to date, it appears as a

result of an errant rocket fired by a terrorist group in Gaza.

MARQUARDT (voice over): Biden didn't name the group, but Israel says it's Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which is allied with Hamas and linked to Iran. The American assessment, less than 24 hours after the deadly strike was based on what the White House now says is intelligence, missile activity, and open source video and images of the incident the statement adding that some Palestinian militants in Gaza themselves believe it was carried out by Islamic Jihad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The US now to weigh in, and the US president to weigh in on this, this does strongly suggest this was likely not the Israelis.

MARQUARDT (voice over): The Israeli military published recordings it claims are audio intercepts of Hamas militants acknowledging the rocket came from inside Gaza.

(HAMAS OPERATIVE TWO speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: It's from us?

(HAMAS OPERATIVE ONE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: It looks like it.

(HAMAS OPERATIVE TWO speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: Who says this?

(HAMAS OPERATIVE ONE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: They are saying that the shrapnel from the missile is local shrapnel and not like Israeli shrapnel.

(HAMAS OPERATIVE ONE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: What are you saying (name)?


(HAMAS OPERATIVE TWO speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: But God bless, it couldn't have found another place to explode?

(HAMAS OPERATIVE ONE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: Never mind, yes (name), they shot it from the cemetery behind the hospital.

(HAMAS OPERATIVE TWO speaking in foreign language.)


(HAMAS OPERATIVE ONE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: The shot it behind the Al-Ma'amadari Hospital and it misfired and fell on them.


MARQUARDT (voice over): CNN cannot independently verify them. It's part of a vigorous Israeli effort to prove it wasn't their rocket, arguing the damage from the strike was far lighter than the bombs they usually drop from the air, assaults that have left buildings across Gaza flattened and huge craters in the ground.

At the hospital today, charred vehicles littered the parking lot, which is pockmarked and has a small crater.

Sources tell CNN that Israel shared its intelligence with the US and taken together, the US now believes that the body of evidence paints a solid picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to piece it together with other sources of information, not just from that ally, because that may be biased.

MARQUARDT (voice over): But the public outcry and blame of Israel were swift and fierce. Biden's Summit in Jordan with Arab leaders was canceled as crowds in the streets grew.

BIDEN: I can understand why this circumstance they wouldn't meet. I can understand that. But I would not -- you notice I don't say things like that, unless I have faith in the source.

MARQUARDT (voice over): The theory now threatening to deepen the crisis, even before Israel launches a possible invasion of Gaza.


COOPER: And Alex Marquardt, joins me now.

Alex, you and I've talked about this before how US often relies on Israeli intelligence in this region. Do we know how much of the intelligence that the US used to come to its own conclusion is from Israel? How much is US intelligence?

MARQUARDT: Quite a bit of it, we understand is from US intelligence themselves. Of course, they do rely on Israeli intelligence and the Israelis, in this case, Anderson were very eager to share with us what they had to prove, in essence, that they were not behind this strike. And then, of course, just a few hours later, earlier today, the US agreed with that Israeli assessment.

Anderson, we're also learning that the US has decided to devote a lot more intelligence resources to the region to help during this conflict that is going to be primarily overhead intelligence collection assets, so that would be aerial imagery, the kinds of things that can be picked up by satellites or spy planes, whatever kind of communication can be picked up from the ground.

We also understand that some special operations support is being devoted to the region.

One US military official who spoke with our colleague, Katie Bo Lillis called this a major shift and says there's a lot of focus on this from across the intelligence community. It remains to be seen, Anderson how these new intelligence assets can help try to figure out what Hamas may be planning, what they're doing, as they have these hostages, and as they brace for what Israel may do in terms of an incursion into Gaza.

But you can also imagine, Anderson, that the US wants to keep very close tabs on Hezbollah and Iran as fears grow that they could also get involved in this conflict -- Anderson.

COOPER: Alex Marquardt, thanks.

Joining us now, someone who is deeply familiar with how battlefield intelligence is gathered and used, CNN senior military analyst, retired Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

General Hertling, I want to play again, some of what Israel says is proof that they did not cause the explosion of the Gaza hospital. This is an audio intercept between purported Hamas operatives, allegedly discussing the rocket. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (HAMAS OPERATIVE TWO speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: Is it from us?

(HAMAS OPERATIVE ONE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: It looks like it.

(HAMAS OPERATIVE TWO speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: Who says this?

(HAMAS OPERATIVE ONE speaking in foreign language.)

TRANSLATION: They are saying that the shrapnel from the missile is local shrapnel and not like Israeli shrapnel.


COOPER: How conclusive is something like that and also coupled with the lack of a crater and also the rocket trajectories that they showed?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, Anderson. I'd say that that audio that you just played is not the smoking gun, but it certainly contributes to it. There are all kinds of intelligence that contributes to an assessment of a kind of attack. You've just mentioned a couple of them.

There's a signals intelligence, the collections of audio. There's what they call MASINT or measures and signals intelligence, that's the ability to tell differences in the surface of the ground and what happens.

We've had tactical intelligence so the Israelis provide a tactical intelligence of a radar track of missiles being shot out of southeastern Gaza, excuse me, southwestern Gaza, just to the west of the hospital.

There are requirements to do crater analysis. You can't do that, because you don't have anybody on the scene, but the crater we saw in the hospital parking lot is indicative of a small type of round, like a rocket or a mortar. It's not a bomb crater.

You also have the capability to look at things like the trajectory around what the target was, the film that you have, the overhead film of the Israeli claims they had a UAV film, but also the film of that rocket going out. I would suggest it didn't explode in the sky, it just lost trajectory and the rocket motor burnt out.


So all of those things contribute. What I saw last night when we were first discussing this were a lot of things that gave me pause. As a commander on the battlefield, you never immediately say, this is what happened without an investigation. But yet, that's what Hamas did.

The Hamas Medical Association in Gaza claimed that it was an Israeli bomb within minutes of it going off. You can't do that that fast. The hospital is still standing, the parking lot, when you look at the charred cars and the firebomb that occurred there seems to be an indicator of a mortar or a rocket around landing with a fuel explosive after it, which is what happens when a rocket fails. And there have been hundreds of rocket failures from Hamas firing it into Israel.

So all of those things taken together are not final proof, but it is about a 90 percent solution that says the Israeli report is extremely compelling. Plus, I haven't seen personally on any films coming out of Gaza just yet of the so-called 500 people that were killed in this attack, there doesn't look like there was a whole lot of carnage at that site from last night. So all of those things add up to me to one other thing.

In 2014, when Israel did Operation Protective Edge doing the same kind of operation they're doing now in Gaza. They were decimated by repeated use of negative social images and false and misdirected information. They're going to see the same thing in this campaign, I'm sure of it, with probably in spades.

COOPER: There certainly was video of children and others being taken to Al Safa Hospital, and reports of people who had been seeking shelter outside and as you pointed out, this rocket or whatever it was assuming it's this rocket from Islamic Jihad that landed in the parking lot.

You also mentioned the video that does show a rocket fired from inside Gaza. That I don't know if it, you said, you don't think it explodes in the air, but it does seem to fall.


COOPER: A blast is seen at the hospital. Talk about what you see when you look at the video.

HERTLING: When I looked at that video last night I was shown it by some folks here at CNN saying, what do you see in this? And I said -- what I said was, a rocket motor stopping. When that happens and you see it now on the screen, when that rocket stops, that one's a hit, that one is a hit probably by Iron Dome missile.

But when you see the other one right before this explosion, it appears like the rocket motor burns out. That tells me there was a failure in the rocket. When that happens, when it is a mile off of the launch site and the Israelis provided what looks to me like a radar, a Q-36 tracking of a rocket launcher, which they use to use the Iron Dome, it appears that that rocket just stopped in the air or flamed out and then dropped.

And when it hit the ground, the explosion you see is much bigger. That one right there is much bigger than a normal rocket explosion, it had to do with a fireball that came after it.

And when you look at the cars in the parking lot, you see some cars that are burned, others that are untouched, just feet away. So all of these indicators without actually doing a crater analysis on the scene and you have to be on the scene to do that, and also seen, you know, you pick up pieces, fragments of the rocket that hit, you can't be 100 percent certain. But I've got to tell you, the evidence we have so far seems to indicate what the Israelis are saying.

And President Biden backed up by saying that there was additional intelligence from the Department of Defense, which probably included satellite imagery of a launch site.

COOPER: Alex just reported the US Special Operations is helping with planning and support. What does that mean to you?

HERTLING: Well, they are getting intelligence. You know, what we've heard so far is some of the Hamas fighters who were killed during the attack on the seventh of October. They've been searched.

Special operators can get things like pocket litter, and that means things that these individuals are carrying -- maps, information, communication devices -- that will give them more of a feel for what that force was doing and what they were tasked to do.

And one of the things they may have been tasked to do was bring hostages back to a certain location. They also can use certainly aerial images. Special Operations are very good for allowing intelligence to drive their targeting, and what I mean by that, special operators just don't go out to hit a target. They plan an operation based on intelligence. It's called intelligence driven operations.

So They are contributing to what Israel is collecting in terms of intelligence, so they can conduct operations and I'm sure they're seeing some of the things on the battlefield today or in the area of Gaza.


COOPER: General Hertling, I appreciate your expertise. Thank you.

More now on the president's brief visit here today and tomorrow's primetime Oval Office address, "The Source's" Kaitlan Collins is here with me tonight; also with us in southern Lebanon where hostilities continue between Hezbollah and Israeli Forces, CNN's Ben Wedeman.

Kaitlan, did the White House think this was a successful trip?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: I think it's a tough trip. I don't think it walked out -- President Biden walked away with a lot of tangible achievements that they were hoping to have. Obviously, they wanted him to really make that trip to Jordan, but he did make that news as he was flying back and that is something I should note that we rarely see him do where he comes back and speaks with reporters.

But he had just finished up a long phone call. He said it was about half an hour with the Egyptian president, and that was where he agreed to allow about 20 -- up to 20 was the president's phrasing -- humanitarian trucks into Gaza. That is significant, because they've been at the Rafah Crossing, unable to actually get across and get to the people who desperately need it. So they certainly felt like they made some progress on that front.

I think the question is, when does it actually happen? Does that act -- do we actually see those trucks cross the Rafah Crossing? And also, the agreement that he said that Israel is going to let that aid go into Gaza? Does that actually happen? I think we talked so much about it, but does it actually go forward?

COOPER: Also, it seems pretty critical that on the part of Israel is how that aid is distributed? Who distributes it? And does it fall into the hands of Hamas or another group?

COLLINS: Yes, and Israel said, it's not coming through Israel, it is only going through Egypt and they've said that if it does get into the hands of Hamas, that's when it's going to stop? Well, that's a big question, because Hamas, of course, runs Gaza. And we've seen how they use civilians as human shields. We've seen the way that they've used them, used money that they've gotten from the United Nations not to build schools, but to help build up their arsenal.

And so I think that's still a really big question. They're going to suddenly start using this for drinking water, for medicine, for all of these things that people desperately need.

COOPER: Yes, interesting to see whether those shipments are contained in the south where Israel has urged Gaza residents to go.

COLLINS; Apparently, they will be. They are not allowed to go to Northern Gaza is what I was told by Israel's ambassador to the United States. COOPER: And also whether they will be building shelters. There are

already some UN tents and stuff up in the South, whether more of those will be built, because obviously housing is a huge issue for people.

Ben, while speaking reporters aboard Air Force One, as Kaitlan was just mentioning, the President Biden flatly denied a "Times of Israel" report. And I'm wondering what you think of it? "The Times that Israel" reports said that the White House had told Israeli officials that if Hezbollah attacked, Israel-US forces would fight alongside IDF troops. Is it clear how concerned Hezbollah is about US military support, even indirect support for Israel?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hezbollah is obviously watching closely, the fact that the United States has sent two carrier groups to the Eastern Mediterranean and is talking about deploying 2,000 Marines on board those two carrier groups.

And of course, when he talks about US troops, of course, the United States, oftentimes in conflicts doesn't always send boots on the ground. It focuses on air power. And certainly we've seen in the past, going back to the 1980s, the United States has become involved in Lebanon, using its air power, using its sea power.

So that doesn't necessarily negate American involvement in a potential shooting war here in Lebanon. Obviously, Hezbollah is not in a position to counter the military strength of the United States. What we're seeing until now on the border with Israel is that every day for instance, today, six separate strikes, these are not strikes on civilian targets. These are very focused on military targets.

Now, are they just trying to sort of tick the participation box saying that we helped Hamas during its war in Gaza? Or is this in preparation for something else? It's not at all clear, but it sent jitters throughout Lebanon.

For instance, the UK has said, if any British nationals who are in Lebanon, they should book a flight out now because flights might not be available for much longer.

So there is worry that Lebanon and Hezbollah of course could become more deeply involved in this war. And if that happens, there's the very real possibility that the United States could become directly involved in a Middle East war, perhaps not with troops on the ground, but with its airpower -- Anderson.

COOPER: Kaitlan, the president's going to be talking tomorrow night both about the situation here and also the war in Ukraine. How much is the chaos in Congress affects the plans moving forward for US support, US funding?


COLLINS: It affects it a lot and I was told actually that during his meetings today with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his wartime cabinet, a source told me that President Biden brought up what was going on, on Capitol Hill. It wasn't a big part of the conversation, but he himself brought it up because he's promising this huge aid package to Israel, which comes to the tune of tens of billions of dollars, potentially. We'll wait to see what the actual request looks like.

And right now, I mean, there's no end in sight to what's happening on Capitol Hill. And so I think the White House has kind of mocked it at times, made fun of it, but now it's becoming a real issue for them because they cannot elect anyone. They have not picked anyone. And what he's going to be talking about tomorrow night is not just what's happening here in Israel, but also making the argument for more funding for Ukraine.

Some people on the Hill like Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell want to tie those two together because they think they can get Republicans to pass aid for Israel, and so they're going to tie the Ukraine aid to that as well.

COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, thank you. Kaitlan will be back at the top of the hour. Ben Wedeman as well. Thank you so much.

Earlier tonight, I spoke with someone who embodies the tradition here of soldier, statesman, Ehud Barak served as Israel's 10th Prime Minister as a former Lieutenant General in the IDF.


COOPER: Thank you so much for being with us. What did you make of President Biden's visit, the message he sent particularly his reference to Americans experience after 9/11 and mistakes that American made after 9/11?

EHUD BARAK, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I think it was an excellent visit at the right. It makes Israel more self-confident about the future as some are not sure what will follow.

At the same time, I should tell you that I never heard so emotionally and morally directed speech from any Israeli leader. Israeli leaders do not speak highly in moral terms and mobilizing, moving, emotional appeals that left a huge imprint on the Israelis.

So from being the one that our government deals to ridicule or kind of sting or kind of denigrate, he became within 10 days, a hero of the Israeli people.

COOPER: He is viewed as a hero now here.

BARAK: Yes, for sure. As a hero nowadays, someone who appeals in the middle of a war, be able to come and to express a steady firm position.

COOPER: The blast of the hospital, the IDF has put out evidence that they have, that the NSC in the United States has also publicly said that the US has intelligence preliminarily, that indicates they also agree with Israel's assessment.

Obviously, we've seen demonstrations all over the region, they are unlikely to be swayed by the evidence that has been put forward, but facts matter and the truth matters. When you heard this blast immediately of course, Hamas put out this statement. You've seen this before.

BARAK: Yes, we've seen it before, it happened more than once that a kind of failing rocket fell very close to the launching place. In fact, I was, from 15 minutes afterwards I was interviewed by a TV station in the Gulf, some UAE station and they asked me what happened and how dare you, so it took them to say first, I can promise you that no Israeli general ordered any time anywhere -- and there were terrible statements to target a hospital.

COOPER: You have an incredible military background and military experience. As commando, you were head of -- the chief of the IDF. You know what fighting in Gaza is like. You know what street fighting is like. How difficult is this going to be and how important is it to get as many civilians as possible in Gaza down into the south?

BARAK: So, first of all, it's very important to get as much of them to the south, probably half a million all in all, but half a million stay there and in a way the Hamas try to discourage them from leaving. They use them in a way as a human shield.

I don't know to what extent it is known in the world, but the central command post of the Hamas used to be for many years in a bunker underneath the Shifa Hospital, move.

COOPER: People in Gaza know exactly where the Hamas locations are.

BARAK: Yes, everyone knows.

COOPER: So if you're living in a neighborhood, you know the entrance to the tunnel is over there.


COOPER: People know.


COOPER: Nobody talks about it.

BARAK: So those who did not leave are either pressured or I don't -- they stay and you cannot impose it upon them. So we issued some three days ago, a warning for 24 hours, but we dragged it for another day, another day to make sure that the most of them will move.

In fact we understand that the leaders of Hamas will also move. We won't find them in Gaza, but we will fight their fighters and set the booby traps.


COOPER: October 7th, and this may not be the time for Israel to look back and to analyze and to investigate. But does it boggle your mind that that was able to happen? BARAK: It's the most severe blow that Israel suffered since its

establishment. There is no more shaking event, because it touches the --

COOPER: More than the Yom Kippur War?

BARAK: More than the Yom Kippur War, because it shattered the very first commitment of the government towards its citizens. Before you have the self-evident kind of rights of human being and before the right to pursue happiness, first of all, the government has to protect your body, physically and we failed in a devastating way for providing it.

It's a major failure of intelligence, both early warning as you mentioned, and immediate one, in just hours before. There were certain hints hours before.

It's a major failure of our preparation, even with no intelligence at all. This is -- you have these terror organizations just few hundred yards on the other side and the barrier is something that -- it was not a secret, you know, people compare it to 9/11.

In /911, the idea to use civilian airlines as a, let's say, cruise missile, so to speak, was novice, it was something new, never experienced it.

Here, to cross the barrier in order to take a position or a settlement, it was high on the list of options of the enemy.

COOPER: Ehud Barak, thank you so much.

BARAK: Thank you.


COOPER: Coming up next, new reporting on how Hamas managed to bring about the worst single day loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust, documentary evidence of the planning that went into taking as many human lives as possible on October 7th.



COOPER: When Hamas launched the atrocities that started this war, the barbarity of what they did was compounded by shock at how thoroughly planned out the attacks on civilian targets appeared to be. We just heard Ehud Barak say that this was the worst thing since founding of Israel, bigger than the surprise of the Yom Kippur War.

Tonight, we have new insight into that preparation, some of it gleaned from documents that the Hamas gunmen carried with them and died with. CNN's Matthew Chance joins us with more. A warning, some of what you'll see in his report is graphic. Matthew, what have you learned?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, for the past week, we've been gathering this material from multiple sources, including from Israeli government officials, but also from first responders in this country and from Israelis who witnessed the attacks firsthand. What we've built up is a very disturbing picture of just how highly organized and planned these Hamas raids were and of course, how much detailed intelligence and information the Palestinian Militant Group had collected on the Israeli communities that they targeted. Take a listen.


CHANCE (voice-over): CNN has gathered chilling new insights and details on the Hamas assault inside Israel, including disturbing video taken by the attackers themselves as they rampaged through Israeli homes killing on sight, and then being killed. Searches of their dead bodies revealing a trove of highly specific Hamas battle plans, including these detailed maps now shared with CNN by the Israeli government, showing communities near Gaza like Kfar Aza targeted by the attackers.

These were the terrifying scenes inside as the masked gunmen recorded themselves moving freely through the gardens of Israeli homes. Code red, code red, the Israeli loud speaker blares in Hebrew punctuating the sporadic gunfire. After the attack, Israeli first responders saw bullet holes and blood stains in room after room, in what looks like a coldly methodical killing spree.

But while hundreds of Israelis were killed, some Israeli communities managed to repel the Hamas gunmen and save lives. A Kibbutz Mefalsim, also near Gaza, residents pushed back a Hamas attack and found documents on the bodies of the militants they killed with disturbing, highly accurate intelligence on their homes, including precise numbers of armed guards there, regional defense force, at least 20 residents, one document reads, and ten soldiers.

YARDEN RESKIN, KIBBUTZ MEFALSIM RESIDENT: They knew basically the size of our security team. They knew about the other three or four entrances to the kibbutz.

CHANCE (on camera): It sounds like they knew everything.

RESKIN: They knew everything, where the generators are. They knew where the armory is. They knew about the rural roads around the kibbutz.

CHANCE (voice-over): Security footage shows how Hamas gunmen killed an Israeli outside the kibbutz gates before being repelled. Even with detailed intelligence on their targets, not every Hamas objective was achieved. Nearby Kibbutz Sa'ad wasn't even attacked, although we now have documentary evidence that Hamas intended to inflict the maximum possible human casualties there, and to hold hostages.

A highly detailed street map found on another Hamas gunman and obtained by CNN shows individual buildings in Sa'ad, identified and assessed for their military value. The communal kitchen, for example, is described as the main place suitable for holding hostages. Inside the guard room, the soldiers must be neutralized, the Hamas instructions say, while the kibbutz dental clinic is designated a place for first aid for both enemies and friends.


Israeli residents of Sa'ad said they also found that level of detail astounding.

SARAH POLLACK, KIBBUTZ SA'AD RESIDENT: Shockingly, the details are very accurate. The map is a map of our kibbutz. It's very accurate. It's horribly accurate.

CHANCE (on camera): If they had come to your settlement, they would have known exactly where to go, exactly where to cause the most damage.

POLLACK: Yes. And we now see that their goal was to take hostages, including children.

CHANCE (voice-over): Israeli officials say they found other documents too that advice attackers to kill anyone posing a threat or causing a distraction, to keep captives away from arms or means of suicide and to use them as cannon fodder. It is a dark turn. Even for a group seen here parading before the attacks, that's come to symbolize the uncompromising face of Palestinian resistance and violence against Israel.

Israeli officials say a document referencing ISIS and Al-Qaeda, which CNN has not been able to authenticate, was found on one Hamas gunman killed during this attack on Kibbutz Be'eri. The document given to CNN by a senior Israeli government official praises jihad against Jews and crusaders. Israeli officials say that's evidence Hamas is increasingly influenced by global jihadi ideology, an assessment many experts have dismissed. But in the wake of the unprecedented brutality of these attacks, U.S. officials tell CNN the Hamas threat may now be reassessed.


COOPER: Matthew, I mean, it just bears repeating, looking at these videos, many of these are Hamas videos that I have not seen before with body cams. I mean these are civilians' homes that they are firing into. I mean it's children's bedrooms. It is just so sickening. Is it clear how they were able to get all of that detailed information about, you know, the location and the residence of these kibbutzim?

CHANCE: No, it's not actually. And I think we saw in that report, you know, when the residents of these kibbutzim are shown the maps that have been taken from dead Hamas gunmen who attacked their communities, they're absolutely visibly shocked that this Palestinian Militant Group could get so much information from inside, certainly without the help of somebody inside the kibbutzim or the communities. So, that's -- I think the big question tonight here in Israel, at least one of them, how it was that Hamas was able to build such a clear picture of the detail of life inside those communities that it targeted and attacked, Anderson.

COOPER: Incredible report. Matthew Chance, thank you. I want to get perspective now from Rami Igra. He's a former Division Chief at Mossad, the Israeli Intelligence Agency. He ran the Hostages and MIA Unit. Rami, thanks for being with us. How do you think they were -- Hamas was able to obtain detailed -- I mean, not -- just not the kind of information you get from a satellite image or Google Maps.

RAMI IGRA, FORMER DIVISION CHIEF OF MOSSAD HOSTAGES & MIA UNIT: Well, it's easy to explain. There are two sources here. The first source, as you said, Google Maps and satellite information you can buy. And the other source is Gaza Palestinians that worked in the kibbutzim. We, as part of our feeding the devil -- we spoke about this yesterday. We tried to give Palestinians from the Gaza Strip work in Israel. And by doing that, they visited and worked in the kibbutzim. All of them worked in the kibbutzim. All the kibbutzim had manpower from the Gaza Strip. And these people or some of these people evidently collected information.

It's easy to explain. I don't think that anybody that deals in the security of Israel was surprised. It's -- this is -- again, I'll go back to what we spoke about yesterday about the hospital, this shows us again how our humanity and our trying to be -- to provide, and our thinking that by providing we kill the ideology or at least we change the ideology.


Once we do that, these people have used us, come back to their operators, brought them the information, and here you've got the story.

COOPER: Given the level of planning and the level of detail and intelligence on the ground that they had, what does that tell you about -- I mean, obviously they knew doing this attack, whatever the results of this terror attack would be that they knew there would be a strong Israeli response, likely some sort of ground operation into Gaza City. What does that tell you about what awaits Israeli forces in Gaza City in terms of planning for the defense of Gaza City?

IGRA: It tells us that they are prepared. They are prepared. Nonetheless, if you look at the documents that have being acquired, and I -- I will go back to what you just showed. The documents included plans to go all the way into Israel, into much bigger cities, much further away, and commit their atrocities much larger than they were able to do. The Israeli response being late, being inadequate, was nonetheless enough to stop them, was nonetheless enough to stop the bigger tragedy, even though the tragedy we have is big enough.

There will be fierce fighting in the Gaza Strip. We know that. But Israel has a strong enough army to do it. It tells us that we have to fight here and we don't have any choice. I've said this several times this week, there is no choice. I would like, Anderson, to speak a minute about what happened yesterday in the hospital. The hospital -- first of all, was proven, even though not everybody believes it, that it wasn't an Israeli attack. It was a jihad missile.

But look at the hospital. We are talking about the parking lot. The parking lot is, like, 50-car parking lot. How did they get 500 people to die there at eight in the evening? So -- and again, I told you yesterday and Ehud Barak just said it to you in an interview, they have done this in the past. Terror groups use our humanity against us. They use the fact that we are very concerned about human lives, which are of the unattached civilians, and they use it against us. They've done this in the past; they will do this in the future. And this is one of the things that we're going to see and you're going to see in the next couple of days or weeks, as we go into the Gaza Strip. I predict many humanitarian stories, most of them fake.

COOPER: Rami Igra, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being with us. We're trying as best as we can to report on what's going on in Gaza. It's obviously difficult, access is effectively cut off. Last night, we spoke to an architecture student who had moved south with her family, Dunia Abu-Rahma. We were able to get her back on the phone this evening. She is in southern Gaza, huddled with dozens of people sharing, as she told us last night, one room, one kitchen, and one bath. Here's what she said earlier.

Dunia, what have the last 24 hours been like for you and your family, since we last spoke?

DUNIA ABU-RAHMA, STUDENT IN GAZA: The last 24 hours, the morning, we got some bad news that my mother's aunt was murdered. So, it's been very terrible for us that we've heard that some of our relatives have been killed. So, we also worry that we might be the next people, that we're going to be killed. We're more terrified and more scared. We don't know when all of this is going to end. So, things aren't getting better here and we were worries about the supplies that we have. If we don't die from bombs, we're going to die from starving or maybe from thirst because there is no enough water. So, it's getting worse day by day and we don't know what is going on or what's going to happen in the next days.

COOPER: Have you heard that President Biden visited Israel today and had said that the U.S. will be giving $100 million for humanitarian assistance and that Israel has agreed to allow food, water, medicine, through the Rafah Gate -- through the Rafah Border Crossing into southern Gaza? Does that give you any hope?


ABU-RAHMA: It's easy to say this, like they've been saying that medical treatment and supplies are going to be in Gaza in two days. But it's easy to say this. But there is no actions.

COOPER: How are you getting information now in Gaza about evacuation options or humanitarian aid? How does that information get to you?

ABU-RAHMA: Luckily, and thank god we are staying in a house where there's an internet connection. Meanwhile, other people, they are literally isolated. Not from the outside world, but also from the local area. So, we are trying here as the one that has an internet connection to inform my friends that doesn't have an internet connection, to tell them who is out there that what is happening in the world and what is happening in the local area. Also some people may get the news after six or more hours that occurred -- like, if something happened, they don't know the news instantly. They know after few hours or maybe a day or more. So, we're trying our best to stay connected with each other.

COOPER: Do you think much about the future? I mean, you're 22. You're in school. You're studying to be an architect. Do you think about your future now, or is it just day to day?

ABU-RAHMA: As I said, I'm thinking a lot about the future. Most of us here are thinking about the future, what's going to happen in the next days. I do think about my future. I was supposed to graduate the next summer. So, I'm worried if I'm going to graduate next year or not, I can be an architect or not, or maybe all the years that I spent studying are gone. So, I am worried and anxious about what is going on to the next days or the next months.

COOPER: Is there anything else you want people to know?

ABU-RAHMA: I hope that, as a civilian and as someone representing civilians here, that the next days -- this next day is going to be better and this is going to end, hopefully. So, this is all I want to add.

COOPER: Dunia Abu-Rahma, thank you so much.

ABU-RAHMA: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

COOPER: Coming up next, what happened to a young woman here, a medic who could have stayed in a safe room when Hamas struck on October 7th. Instead, this 22-year-old young woman gave her life to try to save her neighbors. Her story, next.



COOPER: We are still now just learning new details about what happened on October 7th here in Israel. This next story, we want to warn you, contains graphic and disturbing images. It's about a young medic who could have possibly saved herself if she had remained in her apartment and in the safe room in her apartment. But, she wanted to help other people when gunmen attacked the kibbutz where she was. Amit Mann is her name. She left the safety of her apartment. She went toward danger, and she gave her life to help others. In the process, she documented those final moments of life with photos and messages with her sisters.


COOPER (voice-over): When Hamas gunmen arrived at the entrance of the Be'eri Kibbutz around 7:00 a.m. Saturday morning, they waited for a car to arrive and open the gate. Then they executed the people inside. A 22-year-old medic, Amit Mann, was already in the clinic. She had run there when rocket sirens first sounded at 6:30 a.m. She can have stayed in her apartment's safe room, but wanted to help in case anyone was wounded. For the next seven hours, Hamas gunmen roamed the grounds, burning homes, breaking into houses, hunting residents, slaughtering more than 120 men, women, and children.

HAVIVA IZIKSON, AMIT MANN'S SISTER: She wrote us that there is terrorists in the kibbutz. They heard shooting. They heard Arab talking. They were there and she let us know that.

COOPER (voice-over): Haviva and Leore are two of Amit's sisters. They exchanged messages with her on WhatsApp all during the attack.

COOPER (on camera): She says at 7:51 a.m., she says there are a lot of dead and injured here.


COOPER (on camera): Fucked up situation. I don't have any way to help.

IZIKSON: She was so upset that she can't help them. All she ever wanted to do is save life and help people.

COOPER (on camera): At 9:13 a.m., Amit wrote the shooting is just continuing. And 14 minutes later sent them this photo. A man lies dead in the clinic hall. We blurred the image of his body. The floor is smeared with blood. At 11:02 a.m., Amit messages her sister about the gunmen. They went into houses and slaughtered people. 11:27 a.m., she writes there's no way to get out. Her sisters wanted to see Amit and asked her for a photo. You can see blood in the hallway behind her.

Minutes later, Amit wrote where is the army? I don't understand. It's been hours.

IZIKSON: I told her it will be OK. I promise. I wrote it, I promise you. And I didn't keep my promise. I really believed she will be OK.

COOPER (on camera): At 1:50 p.m., Amit messaged, the terrorists, they are here, coming to us. They were coming inside the clinic.

IZIKSON: She had with her a nurse and a doctor. The doctor got murdered as well. And two members of the kibbutz, that they came with weapon to protect the clinic. Both of them also got murdered.


COOPER (voice-over): At 1:54, Amit wrote, they are here, I love you. Then minutes later, her last text, I don't think I'll get out of here. Please be strong if something happens to me.

IZIKSON: And we, as you can imagine, we go crazy. We write here, Amit, please, Amit, what's going on? And she doesn't answer. Then she sent us an audio recording, say you hear a lot of shooting and screaming. She sends it to us.

COOPER (voice-over): This is the recording Amit sent them at 2:05 p.m. We want to warn you, it's disturbing.

IZIKSON: She's screaming, please make it stop. They are here. Please make it stop.

LEORE, AMIT MANN'S SISTER: (Inaudible) means please, please, please.

IZIKSON: Please make it stop. And she's calling the name of -- Shahar is the member of the kibbutz that was murdered. Probably she saw him dying and then she understood they are coming for her.

LEORE: That she is next.

IZIKSON: She's next, exactly. So, in a desperate move, I called her on the phone. And she answers and she's telling me, they shot me in the legs. And she's telling me, they murdered everybody in the clinic. And she's telling me, they are on me.

LEORE: On top of me.

IZIKSON: On top of me.

LEORE: On top of me.

IZIKSON: And I'm crying and I'm telling her, Amit, what do you mean? What do you mean? And she's telling me, I don't think I'm going to make it. And that's it. The call goes down, and that was the last time we heard from her.

COOPER (on camera): That was the last thing she said to you, I don't think I'm going to make it.


COOPER (voice-over): It was two days before they found out for sure Amit was dead. Her family buried her this week.

LEORE: At least we got to say good-bye.


LEORE: So many other families.

IZIKSON: We got to say good-bye. We got to bury her. There are so many dead bodies that are missing. We try to find comfort in that things. And also that she died doing what she loved the most, which is save lives.




COOPER (voice-over): The other thing Amit loved was singing. And before we left, Haviva and Leore wanted us to hear her voice, not as it was in those final awful seconds of her life, but as it was when she was at peace.



COOPER (voice-over): Amit was just 22 years old.


COOPER: And we'll be right back.