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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Pres. Biden Speaks With CNN About Pausing Arms Shipments To Israel; House Kills Effort By Rep. Greene To Oust Speaker Johnson; NY Appeals Court Sets Final Briefs On Trump's Gag Order Appeal For May 20; President Biden Speaks With CNN About College Protests Over War In Gaza; Michigan College Students, Graduates On Their Feelings About The War And Biden; Whoopi Goldberg On Death Of Her Mother And Brother In Her New Book "Bits And Pieces"; Prince Harry Celebrates 10th Anniversary Of Invictus Games In London. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired May 08, 2024 - 20:00   ET



SCOTT GARDNER, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA-LINCOLN: There was - or perhaps infected salad, a salad with a tapeworm egg on it. He probably didn't have - the tapeworm actually growing in his intestine. The way this parasite works is it uses humans as the main host and pigs as the intermediate host. But if the person - if he had this - if he'd had a tapeworm in him, he could have been infected from one of the tapeworm eggs inside him, but more than likely it was probably an accidental infection from some hygienic problem in a restaurant or somewhere else.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right. Well, Professor Gardner, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. And thanks very much to all of you for being with us here, live from Milwaukee. AC360 starts now.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, CNN exclusive, President Biden one-on-one for the first time threatening to withhold certain U.S. weapons if Israel invades Rafah.

Also tonight, breaking news after weeks of talking about it, far-right Republican Marjorie Taylor Greene tries to unseat Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson. What members did about her motion to vacate his chair and what her fellow Republicans now might do about her.

Plus, what to expect from day two of Stormy Daniels' testimony and why the former president's defense team may now want to maximize her time on the stand.

Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with breaking news. President Biden today sat with CNN for a rare exclusive interview during a stop in the battleground state of Wisconsin. He talked about the election, which we'll get to in a moment, but he's making headlines right now for what he said about Israel's ongoing war with Hamas, which has become the focal point of college protests in the U.S. and abroad.

The interview comes with CIA Director Bill Burns, in Middle East at this moment, working on a ceasefire. Here speaking with CNN's Erin Burnett, President Biden for the first time laying out a new condition for aid to Israel.


BURNETT: I want to ask you about something happening as we sit here and speak. And that, of course, is Israel striking Rafah. I know that you have paused, Mr. President, shipments of 2,000 pound U.S. bombs to Israel due to concern that they could be used in any offensive on Rafah. Have those bombs, those powerful 2,000 pound bombs been used to kill civilians in Gaza?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of those bombs and other ways in which they go after population centers. And I made it clear that if they go into Rafah, they haven't gone on Rafah yet, if they go into Rafah, I'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities, to deal with that problem. We're going to continue to make sure Israel is secure in terms of Iron Dome and their ability to respond to attacks like came out of the Middle East recently. But it's just wrong. We're not going to supply the weapons and artillery shells used that have been used ...

BURNETT: Artillery shells as well.

BIDEN: Yes, artillery shells.

BURNETT: So just to understand what they're doing right now in Rafah, is that not going into Rafah as you demand yet?

BIDEN: No, they haven't gone into the population centers. What they did is right on the border and it's causing problems with right now in terms of with Egypt, which I've worked very hard to make sure we have a relationship and help. But I've made it clear to Bibi and the War Cabinet, they're not going to get our support if in fact they go in these population centers.


COOPER: Joining us now is CNN Chief National Security Correspondent, Alex Marquardt, also two former White House communications directors, Kate Bedingfield, who served in the Biden administration and Alyssa Farah Griffin, who served in the previous administration.

Alex, first of all, how do you think these comments are going to be received by Israel, because Netanyahu has made very clear how important they believe going into Rafah is.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I don't think that anything go down very well, Anderson, when they take full stock of what Biden is saying here. And I really think that this is the most significant shift in this question of American aid for Israel to date. Biden saying very clearly the U.S. will no longer send some of the biggest weapons that the U.S. has been sending to Israel, bombs, artillery, et cetera, if Israel goes into those population centers in Rafah.

Now, earlier today, Anderson, we heard from the IDF, they essentially had dismissed the holdup of one American shipment of bombs, essentially saying that they're working through it, so this is just a temporary delay. But Biden making very clear here that there is a change in American policy and that if Israel does not heed this American warning to not go into Rafah without a more comprehensive plan, that American support will stop on the offensive front.

Now, I've spoken to members of the administration tonight. The U.S. is making very clear they are differentiating between offensive and defensive weapons. Biden saying in the same interview that they will continue to help defend Israel, as we saw with the attack by Iran against Israel. They will continue to help with the Iron Dome system.


But there's now a major question of how much longer the U.S. will continue to support Israel offensively if essentially Israel defies the U.S. and goes into Rafah, goes into these population centers. It's a very, very stark warning.

COOPER: It seems like there may be room, some sort of wiggle room here, because the administration, the Biden administration has for a long time now been urging restraint from Israel in any action in Russia - in Rafah and elsewhere and trying to sort of move them more to, you know, sort of more targeted special forces type operations to try to root out or kill members of Hamas or obviously search for hostages.

Israel has called their operation in Rafah strategic strikes, which may just be a branding exercise. But if Israel was willing to maybe adopt more the tactics that the Biden administration wants, perhaps there's wiggle room there.

MARQUARDT: We've been told this for months, Anderson. I was in Israel back in December when Jake Sullivan, the National Security advisor, said that they anticipated that Israel would start switching to what he was calling a lower intensity phase of this war expected in January. And that simply hasn't happened.

And so this is a shot across the bow by the Biden administration. You could hear the President there in that clip saying that essentially this Rafah operation hasn't started in earnest. And the U.S. understands that Israel does want to take that part of the Rafah border with Egypt to better control that.

Israel certainly sees this Rafah operation, limited as it is right now, as a way to pressure Hamas to perhaps agree to a ceasefire deal. But, Anderson, Israel has made no bones about the fact that they do plan to go into Rafah, that there are four Hamas battalions there that remain and they can't eradicate Hamas without going in, while the U.S. does disagree and says you have to go in, in a much more strategic way, a much more tactical way.

And here the President is saying that - adding to that - we're not going to give you the weapons to do what it is that you want to do, adding to that pressure to go in much more tactically, Anderson. COOPER: Kate, you think back to President Biden's first visit to

Israel after October 7th, and the Israelis greeted that with joy and amazement over the support that Biden was offering Israel for what they were calling a total war against. This is obviously a big change.

Obviously, the President's under extraordinary political pressure here in the United States and globally. What do you think of this line he's now drawing?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think as somebody who worked for Joe Biden for a long time and watched him up close making these kinds of foreign policy decisions, I think contextually, it's important for people to understand that he doesn't make these decisions lightly. He doesn't make them in a knee-jerk way.

You've been discussing for the last few months, he and his team have been working directly with the Israelis to push them to a more tactical approach to Rafah. I mean, this is something that has been a priority for him as he's worked to try to discourage the Israelis from, you know, from conducting raids that have left such broad-based casualties.

So this is not something - this is not the kind of thing that Joe Biden says or does solely under political pressure. I think this is a reflection of where the conflict has moved over these last seven months now. You've seen him consistently put - try to put public pressure, particularly over the last few months, on Netanyahu and the Israeli government to try to minimize casualties.

And so this is - from what I can see, this is simply the next step. I mean, this is him saying, we're going to put action behind our words here. So I think, you know, as people are absorbing this and kind of understanding why Joe Biden is making this decision now, I think it's important to have that context that that is the way that he approaches this kind of decision-making.

And for him, it's less about the political pressure. If it were solely about the political pressure, then you would have seen movement from him over the last few weeks as pressure was ramping up on these college campuses. But that's just - that is not the lens that he uses to make these kinds of consequential decisions where he's weighing, maintaining American security interests in the region, standing by our ally in Israel and simultaneously trying to reduce the suffering that we're seeing in Gaza. Those are complicated things to balance. And so he's trying to strike that balance.

COOPER: Alyssa, Israeli officials have made the point repeatedly that any weakening or any lack of resolution by the U.S. in support of Israel plays into the hands of Hamas. Certainly at the negotiating table makes it less likely. I mean, there are a lot of Israeli officials who will tell you or believe that having a strong military response encourages negotiations, encourages Hamas to make concessions.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Alex alluded to that. I think is being - this announcement by Joe Biden is being panned by the right, the center and even some moderate Democrats.


John Fetterman called it disappointing because a key part of the Rafah invasion is using it as leverage, as a ceasefire is attempting to be negotiated. And what wasn't talked about in depth in this interview is there are hostages. There are also still American hostages.

So this sort of standoff-ish, as though America doesn't have a vital role in this, I think is not being received well politically. But Joe Biden could run into alienating the left who is not going to buy the IDF is not in Rafah. You see the explosions. You see that they are physically there in parts of it, though, on the border.

But then on the center right, the Nikki Haley swing voters who will determine this election feeling like he said he had an ironclad commitment to Israel. Yet this does not bring of an ironclad commitment.

COOPER: Alex, I mean, in terms of Israel's response to this, they have repeatedly or Netanyahu has repeatedly made the basically downplay the civilian casualties. And I mean, the - they are - they talk about the numbers of Hamas fighters that they claim to have killed. There's no way to independently verify that and the number of civilians killed as well.

Obviously, the images coming out of Gaza are horrific. The number of children. There's so many children in the population, so many women being killed. And we see these videos every single day. They are horrific to watch. I'm wondering what you made at the moment that President Biden acknowledge that civilians have been killed in Gaza as a consequence of some of these 2,000 pound bombs that the U.S. has supplied by Israel. I mean, it's a statement of fact.

MARQUARDT: It is a statement of fact. I think it's a remarkable admission. I mean, this has been the biggest criticism by people who want to see this war end as soon as possible, that the U.S. continues to supply Israel with the weapons who - and in turn they continue to carry out these strikes that have led to this enormous death toll.

Anderson, you're absolutely right that Israel has kind of quibbled with those figures. But even if you look at Israel's figures, around 15,000 Hamas fighters killed, you're still talking about around 20,000 civilians, most of whom are women and children. And so what you hear in that moment is the president really reckoning with the death toll that has happened in many ways at the hands of American weapons. And he said very pointedly, it's just wrong.

And so he kind of - he certainly wants to see that the killing with these American bombs and the U.S. has talked repeatedly about how the civilian death toll is too high. But until now, they really haven't taken any steps to constrain Israel. We've had this remarkable moment for the past few months where American bombs have been dropping on Israel. And at the same time American aid has been dropping in Israel.

The Pentagon is going through - to extraordinary lengths to build this pier off the coast of Gaza to get aid in. And so it's just been this remarkable contradiction. But I should also note ...

COOPER: But you said - by the way, just - you said aid and bombs have been dropping in Israel, been dropping in Gaza, you mean?

MARQUARDT: Sorry, into Gaza, yes.


MARQUARDT: The aid drops coming from the planes, from the Americans, aid coming in from the sea, from land, so it's just been incredible. Anderson, we should note, this is extremely symbolic. And this is a real signal to Israel, of course.

Israel could plow ahead and carry out an operation in Rafah on the ground and from the sky. They do have enough weapons to do that. They do have enough of these bombs. But this is a strong message ...


MARQUARDT: ... to Israel that we are no longer going to send these weapons if you go into these populated areas and continue to kill civilians, Anderson.

COOPER: Alex Marquardt, Kate Bedingfield and Alyssa Farah Griffin, thank you.

Now more breaking news, another attempted Republican on Republican mutiny on Capitol Hill. Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene trying to unseat House Speaker Mike Johnson and seeing her attempt to get smacked down. Now, the question is what just happened here.

Speaker Johnson has just weighed in, so as the former president on his social network urging Republicans to defeat her motion to vacate the speaker's chair, but only posting it at 5:59 PM, several minutes after the vote took place. CNN's Melanie Zanona has been talking to House members and her sources, and joins us now with the latest.

So how did House Republicans react when Greene called up this resolution and how quickly did they move to kill it?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, I can tell you, Anderson, that GOP leadership was completely caught off guard. I'm told that Marjorie Taylor Greene did not give advance notice to Johnson that this was coming. But Johnson knew all along that it was possible she would force a floor vote on this motion to vacate this week. So he did have a plan in place, which was to immediately schedule the vote the moment that she called it up and that is exactly what he did. And as you saw, that motion was easily defeated with the help of Democrats.

But even though it did easily fail, Republicans are still furious with Marjorie Taylor Greene for following through with this threat. And some are even calling for consequences. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. STEPHANIE BICE (R-OK): Right now, we're all focused on making

sure that this institution continues to function. And I think today we showed that we're tired of the chaos and the nonsense.

REP. MARCUS MOLINARO (R-NY): This pathetic rerun of an awful syndicated TV series needs to come to a close. I think that there needs to be - ultimately there needs to be accountability.


I don't think people should be - some people here think they're more important than everyone else, they are not, and there needs to be accountability for that.

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Look, I think it's idiotic. Moscow Marjorie has lost her mind, clearly the result of the space laser. There needs to be consequences, including the loss of committee assignments. Chip Roy and Thomas Massie, who serve on the rules committee, should both be removed immediately.


ZANONA: Now, Johnson has not advocated for any consequences, but he has said that they need to change the House rules next year. And he also said off the House floor today that he hopes after this vote they can put all these messy fights that have defined the 118th Congress behind them, finally.

COOPER: She'd had a bunch of meetings with Johnson over the last couple of days. Did she give a reason for trying to force this vote?

ZANONA: There was some sense that she was trying to find an off ramp, trying to find some resolutions, perhaps because Donald Trump himself, I'm told, called her over the last week and urged her to back down and to not follow through with this. So she did meet with Johnson several times this week. She laid out a list of demands in exchange for backing down. But Johnson was in no hurry to make a decision and he was also very clear that he was not willing to negotiate with her. He was just willing to hear out her ideas.

So ultimately, she decided to pull the trigger today, which is the last day the House was voting this week. And so we'll see whether she continues to force these floor votes in the future. But she has not ruled out doing so, Anderson.

COOPER: Melanie Zanona, thank you.

Coming up next, new developments in the hush money trial and the former president's fight against the gag order limiting what he can say about it. New details as well as about the defense's fresh willingness, it seems, to keep Stormy Daniels on the stand longer, despite everything she said to prosecutors yesterday or maybe because of it.

Also, my conversation with Whoopi Goldberg about her loss in the space of just a few years of her mom and her brother, the effect their deaths had on her and the remarkable story she tells about in her new book, "Bits and Pieces: My Mother, My Brother, and Me." We'll be right back.



COOPER: There's a major new development tonight ahead of Stormy Daniels' second day of testimony when the New York hush money trial picks up tomorrow. Though it will not affect the case immediately, it could in the weeks ahead.

Late today, a New York appeals court ordered both sides to submit final briefs by May 20th, 12 days from now, on the former president's challenge to his gag order. As you know, he's already been cited with contempt 10 times for violating it and has been warned he could face jail time if he does it again. His attorneys earlier today asked the appeals court to expedite their ruling on whether the gag order passes constitutional muster.

Now, before that happens, Stormy Daniels will be back on the stand tomorrow for another day of cross-examination by the defense. Tonight, what that might look like, what the defense could try to exploit and what tools are available to prosecutors for containing any damage from a witness who so far has been both compelling at times and problematic.

Joining me now, best-selling author and former federal prosecutor, Jeffrey Toobin, CNN's Kara Scannell who's been in court forever throughout this trial, former federal judge, Shira Scheindlin, and CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig.

Kara, what's the latest on the gag order?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So they made this filing today asking the appeals court to expedite their decision on whether the gag order was constitutional or not. The appeals court came back and said briefs due by the 20th. Now, prosecutors have said they expect to rest their case around May 21st. So it doesn't seem like there's going to be a ruling on this gag order while the prosecution is still calling witnesses. And of course, that is the issue here, whether what Donald Trump can say about any possible witnesses.

COOPER: Judge, what do you think of the gag order?


COOPER: I said, what do you think of this never-ending battle over the gag order?

SCHEINDLIN: It does seem to be a never-ending battle. But do I think ...

COOPER: Do you think (INAUDIBLE) ...

SCHEINDLIN: ... do I think the appellate division will cut it back? Possibly. There are parts of it that I think are a little bit vague, a little bit not totally clear. They may try to pin it down a little better. That's what I think. I don't think they'll overturn it. I don't expect that.

COOPER: What would be ways to kind of organize it differently?

SCHEINDLIN: Well, for example, you're not allowed to make comments about jurors. But is it a comment about jurors to say this is a heavily Democratic district? That's an example that's always stood out to me. That's not really talking about the jurors. It's a fact that this district where the jurors are drawn from is heavily Democratic and Trump got 12 percent of the vote.

So I understand his change of venue argument from the beginning. He sort of feels this isn't a venue for me to get a fair trial, just like the government isn't truly happy anymore in Florida. So I understand that maybe defining what it means to comment about jurors is something that could be a little bit pinned down. That's just an example.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: I think we're talking client maintenance here for the lawyers. I mean, Trump is obsessed with this gag order. These lawyers are trying to get him acquitted in this trial. They do not need to be arguing about this gag order, which, as you point out, any ruling will be after the trial anyway. This is entirely his obsession, his pushing for political, not legal reasons, the idea that he's some sort of First Amendment victim.

But I am sure his lawyers have said to him, can we not spend time on this and instead spend time on trying to get you acquitted? But I think this shows that this is Trump's political agenda.

SCHEINDLIN: Yes, but ...

COOPER: Well, that - I mean, to that end, do you think tomorrow that they are going to spend more time with Stormy Daniels than they might have otherwise?

TOOBIN: Well, I actually think that they've gotten most of what they need out of Stormy Daniels. She is someone who hates Donald Trump. She acknowledges that. She has a financial interest in the outcome of this case. She will make more money if Donald Trump is acquitted. What more do you need?

If they start asking her about her description of the sex between them, they're just going to let her repeat all of what she said. I just think less is more.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I agree with that. I know we have new reporting at CNN, Paula Reid. I think you too, Kara, right?


HONIG: Oh, sorry. All right. You have so many stories, it's - how can I keep it straight? But we have new reporting at CNN that they do plan to cross-examine her for longer than they originally intended tomorrow. I think that's a mistake. It's a common lawyer mistake. We lawyers, I'll plead guilty to this, sometimes do this, where if a little bit is good, more must be better and that does not apply, especially in cross-exam.

They are off to a very good start in the hour or 90 minutes that they cross-examined Stormy Daniels the other day. Pick up there, do another hour, just remind the jury that she's biased. She hates Trump. She is desperate to see him behind bars. She's told conflicting versions of this story before. Leave it at that. You don't need to go back in that hotel room. It's the last thing you want to do.


SCHEINDLIN: No, I agree with that, but I disagree with you in a way. It depends on the witness. Some witnesses wear down and wear out. She may blow it if they keep her going for hours and hours. She may just say something that's very, very strange and affects the jury. I don't think this jury likes this woman anyway. The more she talks, the less they may like her.

TOOBIN: One point about Stormy Daniels that is worth remembering, she has been a witness in - just in the building next door, your old courthouse ...


TOOBIN: ... where she was a witness against Michael Avenatti. She was the key witness in the case about him stealing from her and the jury loved her. The jury believed her.

SCANNELL: I covered that trial and I saw her testimony. And her demeanor is very different in that case than it is in this case.

COOPER: How so?

TOOBIN: Really?

SCANNELL: I think then, I mean, that was a case about her financial records and not getting her book advance. I felt she was very composed. She was very on top of her business. She seemed like a savvy businesswoman and just was able to tell the story differently. In this instance, she does seem more scattered, whether it's more nervous. Obviously, the stakes are different here. And it's a different type of issue.

She's talking, yes, it is about the payment, but it's also about her encounter with Trump. And she just comes across a little bit more uneasy with her question - with her answers, and that she was trying to appeal to the jury in such a way that they did not - her jokes didn't really land. She was trying to engage with them more and that didn't really (INAUDIBLE) ...

SCHEINDLIN: She strikes me that she has an agenda. She is trying to get this man convicted and that's coming through, at least to me.

COOPER: Her descriptions of the sexual encounter on the witness stand were different than in past - a lot of past interviews. The one I did with her on "60 MINUTES," for instance. This time, she said it was entirely - it was consensual. When I interviewed her, she certainly felt like, oh, what have I gotten myself into? This she talked about blacking out, which she described as sort of a losing feeling in her hands and stuff, not remembering certain moments of it.

In fact, at one point, the prosecutor said something to the effect of like, is that just a newly recovered memory, which is actually a term that's used?

HONIG: Right.

COOPER: Do you think they will go after that?

HONIG: Absolutely. That's how you cross-examine a story like this. You're not going to get Stormy Daniels to recant on the stand. She's not going to say, I made it all up. I don't think personally think she - I don't personally think she made it all up.

But the way you undermine it, you say, you sat down with Anderson Cooper. You spoke to him for however long it was. Where in there did you say anything about passing out? Where in there did you say anything about he was blocking the doorway? Whatever it is.

The other thing you do is she has made contradictory statements. She signed a statement in 2018 saying this affair never happened and I'm not denying it because I was paid hush money. I'm denying it because it did not happen. Now she will have an explanation. She says she felt pressured and scared and that's why she signed it, but this is the way real life cross-examination works. It's not all Tom Cruise getting Jack Nicholson to admit he ordered the code red.

TOOBIN: I'm only with you halfway on that.

HONIG: Okay.

TOOBIN: Because I think you're right that the statement, denying is a big problem for her and that is worth focusing on. But going over the sexual encounter, even though there are - what I would consider minor inconsistencies, I don't think if you were Donald Trump's lawyer, you want the jury thinking about what went on in that hotel room --


COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: ... all the time or much time at all. Do the money, do the bias, do her fixating on how much she hates him, but I would stay out of that hotel.

HONIG: I actually think I agree with you, but it'll be interesting to see whether Donald Trump's personal and political agenda compel his lawyers to get back into that hotel room.

SCANNELL: Well, and there's already the risk that if they do go down that road, the prosecution has a whole lot more they want to ask her. And the judge already put the guardrail there, but he said it's off if it goes there on cross.

COOPER: Kara, Jeff, thanks very much. Judge Scheindlin as well and Elie Honig, thank you very much.

We have more now of CNN exclusive interview with President Biden next as we look at how students in the battleground state of Michigan balance their feelings about the war with those about the president as part of John King's all over the map series looking at key voting groups in swing states. He joins us next.



COOPER: During President Biden's interview with CNN, he spoke about college protests over Israel's war against Hamas and their anger over his support for Israel.


BURNETT: Mr. President, signs at college campuses, some say Genocide Joe. Any of us that have gone to those campuses, sometimes we hear that chant. Do you hear the message of those young Americans?

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely, I hear the message. Look, two things. First of all, there's a legitimate right to free speech and protest. There's a legitimate right to do that, they have a right to do that. There's not a legitimate right to use hate speech. There's not a legitimate right to threaten Jewish students. There is not a legitimate right to block people access to class. That's against the law. That's against the law.


COOPER: Those demonstrations have been especially intense in Michigan, a state Biden won by less than three percentage points in 2020, which also features a high number of Arab American voters. John King recently returned to Michigan to discuss the war and President Biden with young voters there as part of his ongoing series, "All Over The Map" to experience the election through the eyes and experience the voters in key voting blocks and battleground states.

And John King joins us now. Now, I mean, it is tough to overstate the importance of Michigan.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Of Michigan and of the younger vote. And in Michigan, also you have the double whammy of the Arab American and the Muslim vote giant in the state. We were there five months ago. It was bad for the president. That was at the beginning of this. We were just back there, Anderson, and I will say it is worse because this is literally doubled trouble for the president.

I want you to look at this. This is the Arab American news and it talks about the protests on campus. You see here, 'intifada on campuses' they use. 'Intifada' is a word that really angers Jewish students, makes them feel unsafe. But you see it here in the Arab American newspapers here, it hurts the president. Young voters with Arab Americans in the state like Michigan, they we're key to his big win. And right now, six months to election day, giant trouble.


KING (voice-over): Protest amid the commencement celebration, a time- honored tradition on campus, but this one is complicated. Jade Gray and Anushka Jalisatgi are now University of Michigan graduates and now former co-presidents of the college Democrats, proud their school is part of a global statement.

JADE GRAY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN CLASS OF 2024: Was in my application letter that this was a campus of like a history of protests --


GRAY: -- a rich history of social justice movements.


KING (voice-over): Worried though about months of war and death, months of student anger at a president who can't afford to lose Michigan.

KING: How much is it going to hurt the president?

GRAY: However much he decides.

JALISATGI: Yes. That starts with calling for a ceasefire, for listening to his -- the student voters across the country.

KING (voice-over): This is from our first visit five months ago, protest against Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas conflict were just beginning.

KING: Is it fair to say you're glad the election is not tomorrow?

GRAY: Yes.

KING (voice-over): The election was nearly a year away then, six months away now.

GRAY: Michigan is up for grabs, and I did not think I'd be saying this right now. And I wish I wasn't saying that's right now --


GRAY: But I am -- I am genuinely concerned about which way Michigan will go.


KING (voice-over): Both hope a summer away from campus protests helps younger voters see a bigger picture. GRAY: I'm certainly not voting for the guy who is in court right now.


GRAY: And who incited an insurrection.


GRAY: And put three extremists on the supreme court, who therefore took away rights for the first time in history, who has demonized LGBTQ community.


GRAY: -- of which I'm a part of.

KING (voice-over): But right now, things are raw. Some friends talked about staying home or voting third party.

JALISATGI: Hundreds of thousands of people in Gaza and in across Palestine have been displaced, have been starved, have been killed. So I think it really does come down to people's own judgments on the motivations of the president.


KING (voice-over): Summer Matkin is home in suburban Detroit, processing freshman year at Wayne State.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you talk about politics for me?

KING (voice-over): Back in November, big reservations about the president's age, but zero out if the choice was Biden or Trump.

MATKIN: I'd go Biden.

KING (voice-over): Now, not so sure.

MATKIN: No matter how many Taylor Swift references you make, you'll never understand us. My thing is, I think he has handled everything with Israel and Palestine terribly.

KING (voice-over): Still leaning Biden, but part of a consequential debate with friends.

MATKIN: A lot of our generation is also considering going third party, but I kind of fear it's going to split up the votes and end up having it fall back on Trump, which I wouldn't want to happen.

KING (voice-over): Maya Siegmann began the school year, likely Biden, ends it definitely Biden. Happy with her grades, even more happy it is over.

MAYA SIEGMANN, MICHIGAN VOTER, WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: It was terrifying. It was terrifying. The escalation of other campuses has made me fear for my campus.

KING (voice-over): Siegmann offers nuance often missing when politicians discuss the campus protests. No problem with calls to end the killing or to speed up humanitarian aid. But fear when she sees banners like this, 'the intifada was a violent armed uprising targeting Jews."

KING: You're wearing your star David. You ever taken it off?

SIEGMANN: I did. I took it off actually for about a week or two, and then I put it on four or five months ago and never took it off.

KING (voice-over): A fierce supporter of Israel, but are fierce critic of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

SIEGMANN: I personally don't agree with how he is operating. I think that he is trying to prolong the war.

KING (voice-over): Ibrahim Ghazal also speaks with nuance. He is no fan of Hamas and acknowledges Israel's right to respond to terrorism.

IBRAHIM GHAZAL, MICHIGAN VOTER, WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL STUDENT: We don't want human rights violations. If you're going to conduct war, conduct it within the rule of law, international law. Now, that's all people are asking for, nothing more.

KING (voice-over): Ghazal is in two groups critical to Biden's Michigan math, a younger voter and an Arab American. He just wrapped his first year at Wayne State Law School.

GHAZAL: It's been stressful just seeing people that look like me and just human beings -- seeing human beings on my phone screen being killed day in, day out. And what's worse as an American, I have to see my government funding it, so stressful.

KING (voice-over): A Biden voter in 2020 who says the president is in deep trouble in Detroit, Dearborn, and other Michigan communities where Arab and Muslim Americans number in the tens of thousands.

GHAZAL: With older people, I would definitely say they're not voting for Biden. For younger voters, we're stuck in the sense that it's Biden or Trump. The only reason I haven't closed the door is because I think he still has an ability to change course and set a precedent for the future.

KING (voice-over): Ghazal's summer goals, take a break. Then study the third-party candidates and watch to see if the president truly does change course, or if the encampments are still a thing when classes resume in the fall.


COOPER: John, I mean, of all the battleground states, Michigan, his win was the most comfortable, I guess. You look at Wisconsin, it was only 20,000 votes. Is that enough in Michigan to offset these problems you have? KING: It's a great question. My answer would be, as of today, no. Pennsylvania was 80,000, Wisconsin; Michigan was 154,000. (inaudible) maybe the president has a little bit wiggle room here, but look at this. Trump's share 2020, 47 percent. Trump's share 2018 when he won, 48 percent if you round up both times. The third-party candidates hurt Hillary Clinton. The question is, will they hurt President Biden?

So, let's come forward to the Democratic primary. Remember, uncommitted was on the ballot in the primary. That was the protest vote against President Biden. It was largely students, it was largely Muslim and Arab Americans saying we don't like your policy here. Where was it the biggest? Wayne County. Winston, Wayne County, Dearborn. Dearborn Heights, Hamtramck -- this is where tens of thousands, more than 100,000 Arab American, Muslim American voters live here in Wayne County. It's also where at Wayne State University is. Uncommitted got 17 percent of the vote.

Washtenaw County next door, move over. That's Ann Arbor. That's the University of Michigan. That's the students. Uncommitted got 17.2 percent of the vote. So if the president wants to recreate this in 2020, the presidential win, he has to make up. You heard the student (inaudible) Ibrahim Ghazal, major policy shift. He's got six months. He's in trouble right now, but there's time.

COOPER: Yeah. John King, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Coming up, my chat with Whoopi Goldberg on 'Living With Grief' for an upcoming episode of my podcast, "All There Is" when she lost her mom and brother within five years of one another.


COOPER: She writes in her new memoir that she felt alone, missing the only people who truly knew her. In a powerful moment with me, Whoopi answers the question she asked in her book, 'Why did you all leave me here?' That's next.


COOPER: Whoopi Goldberg has been in the public eye for decades as a comedian, actor, co-hosted "The View." She is truly one of a kind. What you may not know about her is that behind the scenes, her remarkable mom, Emma, and her brother Clyde were her anchors. Their connection was extraordinarily deep all their lives. Whoopi's mom died in 2010 and her brother a few years later. Their deaths had a profound effect on Whoopi and still do.

And she writes incredibly lovingly about them in a new memoir titled " Bits and Pieces: My Mother, My Brother, and Me." The book is out this week. It is beautiful. I recently spoke to her for a future episode of my podcast, "All There Is." The full interview will be available when the next season is released, not sure when that's going to happen, but soon. But I wanted you to hear some of what Whoopi had to say.


COOPER: You wrote -- you said -- after your mom died, you said she prepared me for this day, but I would never be ready. I wasn't ready to not be her kid. And you also said it took a while to settle in on me that my mom's death has been the most devastating experience of my life. It was an acute trauma, I still think about her every single day.

WHOOPI GOLDBERG, AUTHOR: Yes. But I figured out -- one of the reasons I also thought I should write the book is because I didn't think I was responding correctly.


GOLDBERG: And I couldn't figure out why. I couldn't figure out why it wasn't more devastated and then a couple of days ago, I figured it out.

COOPER: A couple of days ago?

GOLDBERG: Yes. I figured it out a couple of days ago. There was nothing left unsaid with us. So, there was no there was no angst to find, there was that thing that I've seen in movies where I see people go through. I didn't go through it because my experience was, you know I adored and loved you and you we're the center of my life, and the same with my brother. And we said it to each other all the time.

COOPER: You said I'm not in any rush to go wherever they went, but a lot of days, I'm just sort of walking through it, getting where I need to go and doing what I need to do. I had no clue that things would change so dramatically for me once they we're gone. Was I so tethered to my mom and brother that I can't find my own bearing? It feels that way. They were my home base, my reality check because they both knew me from the start. And you also said it's not like either one could have done anything about dying. But from time to time, I feel like why did he all leave me here?


COOPER: I asked (inaudible)?

GOLDBERG: Yeah. Yeah. But the answer to that is because we have stuff we got to get done, that's why, and we're not supposed to -- this is not our time. It's not our time. We got kids and grandkids and they need to know us. They need they need to know us, that's why, that's my belief, yeah.

COOPER: But yeah, that -- I found myself asking that question, like -- yeah. Why did you leave me?

GOLDBERG: Yeah, why did you leave me? There were three of us.

COOPER: I also realized when I asked that, that it's very much -- it's the question like the 10-year-old me is asking.


COOPER: It's like the angry question about hard-hearted child of, like, why did you all leave? GOLDBERG: Yeah.


GOLDBERG: Yeah. And I once flirted -- once flirted with thinking about leaving and then I thought, how -- what a terrible thing that would be to do to my kid, to knowingly do to my kid who actually likes me? You know, she is a really good person and a fine woman and she has raised -- she and her husband have raised three fine, very bizarre children. And why would you do them? Why would you leave them with that? So --


GOLDBERG: -- decided not to --



COOPER: I'm glad.

GOLDBERG: Yeah, me too, I think.

COOPER: You know when somebody dies, people don't know what to say. And I've been doing this pocket-sized (ph) don't know what to say a lot of times.


COOPER: But I'm better at it now, but what are you -- you wrote the book about writing to people and -- what do you say to people? When you have a friend who lost a loved one or --

GOLDBERG: Well, I say no one -- no one who hasn't lost this way can understand. So you can't be mad at them for not saying the right thing, because even you don't know what the right thing is. So just let people love you. Let them come love you and just appreciate that they're not going to know what you're feeling, they are (ph) going to get (inaudible) can't read your mind.

But, know that all of these things are going to be coming at you and you're going to get really pissed off because you could -- why are you -- why are you talking to me like this? It is because they don't know what to say, you know? So I just recommend saying I was so sorry and hug somebody or write them a note, say I don't know how to deal with this because it's never happened to me. Be honest.


COOPER: Whoopi Goldberg is amazing. I love her and her book is lovely and remarkable. And if you think you know her and if you like her and you think you know her, there's a lot you can learn about her that's extraordinary, that's in this book, and her amazing, amazing mom, Emma, who was a -- sounds a lot like my mom. We'll be right back.


COOPER: -- London where his estrangement from his dad, the king, is ongoing and especially apparent today. More from CNN's Max Foster.


MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Arriving at St. Paul's Cathedral in London, Prince Harry here to mark ten years of the Invictus Games.

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: There are varieties of gifts but the same spirit.

FOSTER (voice-over): Notable in their absence from the service, close members of the royal family, Harry's celebrity friends stepping up instead. Prince William was neither expected to meet his brother on this trip. But Harry had reached out to his father. The king wasn't available due to his busy schedule, according to Harry's office. British media called it a snub.

As Harry was taking to the (inaudible), the king made his own public appearance, just a few miles away at Buckingham Palace's first garden party of the summer season. Father and son, so close, yet still so far apart. They haven't seen each other since a brief visit in February after the king announced he was being treated for cancer.

Shortly before Harry arrived in London, an announcement from the palace that underscored the increasingly close working relationship between William and Charles. The Prince of Wales was officially being handed the Colonel-in-Chief title of Harry's former army unit.


FOSTER (voice-over): Harry has had a strange relationship with the royal family since he and his wife, Meghan, stepped back from royal duties in 2020. The Duke has since been highly focused on the Invictus Games, an international sporting competition for wounded veterans, established in 2014.

HARRY: 10 years is a real thing. It's our birthday at Invictus Games Foundation. I'm really very excited and thrilled.

FOSTER (voice-over): Wednesday's event in London will be followed by a trip to Nigeria where Harry will be joined by Meghan. Both of these appearances unusually choreographed with the media, marking a fresh push to highlight the couple's work.

Max Foster, CNN, London.


COOPER: Just ahead, new video after tornado strike parts of eastern and central U.S.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: New video from police in Michigan after at least one tornado hit a town outside Kalamazoo Tuesday night, significant damage occurred in homes and businesses. Officials there say more than a dozen were injured following a tornado. Right now, authorities south of Nashville, Tennessee say, a large tornado has hit. There are reports of significant damage along Interstate 64 in the area. We'll continue to follow the story. The news continues. "The Source with Kaitlan Collins" starts now.