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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Biden Campaigns In Key Swing State Of Michigan As Fate Of His Re-Election Bid Remains Unclear; Rep. Hillary Scholten (D-MI) Speaks About Calling President Joe Biden To Drop Out Of Race; Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA) Discusses About President Biden Staying In The Race; Rescued Israeli Hostage Andrey Kozlov Speaks To CNN About Abuse, IDF Rescue; Sources: Former First Lady Melania Trump To Attend Republican National Convention Next Week; Judge Dismisses Charges Against Alec Baldwin After Defense Alleges Government Misconduct; Judge Dismisses Giuliani's Bankruptcy Case, Allowing Creditors To Try To Seize His Assets. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 12, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Looking right now at President Biden on stage at a high school gym in Detroit. That was a raucous rally. Chants "four more years," "don't you quit" throughout the rally. Let's just be honest, energetic, passionate, that is a Joe Biden that many donors and Democrats wish that they saw on that debate stage. Obviously, a crucial moment to watch. He just spoke there for about 35 to 40 minutes at that rally. You can see the response now.

And thanks so much to all of you for joining us. Let's hand it off now for our continuing coverage with Anderson Cooper 360.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: President Biden in Detroit, wrapping up a fiery defense of his candidacy, his stamina and his chances defeating Donald Trump in November. Speaking to chants of "we got your back," and "don't you quit" and "four more years." He talked for about 35 minutes.

Joining us now is former Ohio Democratic Congressman, Tim Ryan, who ran for president in 2020. Also two CNN political commentators, Ashley Allison who served as national coalitions director for the 2020 Biden- Harris campaign and Kate Bedingfield, former Biden White House communications director.

Congressman, it was 10 days ago that you called for Vice President Harris to replace President Biden at the top of the ticket. The President said again tonight he's not going anywhere. What did you make of his speech tonight and does it make you change your mind?

TIM RYAN, (D) FORMER OHIO CONGRESSMAN: No. Honestly, I didn't watch a whole lot. I just listened to it as I was sitting here. But I think the fact that a lot of the almost all of the Michigan representatives, senators, candidates were not there, I think tells a lot of us exactly what was happening on the ground.

Now, he's obviously going out. He's going to try to convince people, which is fine. He has a right to absolutely do that. But when I think about what the swing state numbers are looking like, Anderson, and in these swing states, the Biden campaign has spent already. The Trump campaign and the outside groups have not spent already, and you think about the debate, you think about the George Stephanopoulos interview. You think about the Putin and Trump comment last night. And you think about nearly a billion dollars behind those ads. That is going to shift public opinion and that's what guys like me are really, really worried about as we move forward into this campaign with so much at stake.

COOPER: Kate, I'm wondering what you made of the congressman's point. And also today, the head of the United Auto Workers urged Democrats not to, quote, "Put our heads in the sand and hide from reality."

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, the congressman may be right that some members of the delegation weren't there. But look at the voters who were there. I mean, ultimately, it's the voters who are going to decide this election. And I think you had an incredibly raucous, energetic crowd here that was really feeding off what the President was saying. And I think, crucially, you had the President really prosecuting the case against Donald Trump.

I mean, that's been a lot of the sort of the outstanding question over the last, you know, now almost two weeks since the debate has been, is he going to be capable of driving that message, is he capable of taking it to Trump and I think you absolutely saw tonight that he was. And he made a really aggressive case on, you know, the economic front. He really, you know, drove on, you know, Donald Trump is for the big corporate interests. I'm for you. You know, he had a really sharp argument there and delivered it passionately.

So look, I think there is no question that some of the swing state polling has moved since the debate. I think it would be foolish to deny that. But I also think the Biden team's theory of the case from the outset has been when this race, you know, comes into focus in the fall and people see the binary choice between Joe Biden, who's fighting for them, and Donald Trump, who only cares about himself, who spouts all sorts of crazy nonsense, who wants to take away your freedoms and your rights, who supported an insurrection on January 6th, that people are going to vote for Joe Biden.

And I think that there is time for Biden to make that case. And I think if he does what he did tonight, repeatedly in the swing states, he's going to be in a much better position.

COOPER: Ashley, one of the difficulties, you know, you can have events on a teleprompter or even in the press conference last night, where he was able to speak about foreign policy and for a very long period of time. I've talked to a lot of people who would very much wish Joe Biden was the candidate, but are holding their breath every time he has an event, fearful of what may happen and watching it in part to just see if anything happens. Is that tolerable for the rest of the nexts? I mean, it's - whatever happened on debate night, there's no reason to think it might not happen again, because we still don't know what happened on debate night. ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I mean, he was on teleprompter during the speech, but he also did like two other components of that trip that he was not on teleprompter.

[20:05:01]

And I got to say I watch the whole CNN broadcasted the whole event of him meeting and greeting with voters and he was pretty funny to me, if you asked me.

Look, let me tell you when I hold my breath. I hold my breath when Donald Trump talks about what he would do in Project 2025. I hold my breath when I remember Donald Trump being the president of the United States and I heard babies screaming because he had separated them from their parents. I hold my breath when I was sitting in the home for a year by myself, because I'm a single woman and I wasn't able to interact with people because Donald Trump told us to put bleach in our system instead of actually dealing with a worldwide pandemic. I hold my breath when Donald Trump tells us when neo-Nazis are marching in the streets of Charlottesville that there are good people on both sides. And I hold my breath looking at the Democratic Party saying, folks, we got a choice. We have a hundred and, what, 13 days before election for the most consequential election of our lifetime. Let's make our decision. You had an opportunity to run other people last year. You chose not to do that. That is not Joe Biden's fault. That is your fault.

So we are in a situation right now. I'm not saying it's wrong for people to be disappointed with Joe Biden's performance in the debate. But yesterday, today, he is coming out. He is rallying voters. And when you actually look at the polls, the race really has not changed that much since the debate. So we need to stay focused. I'm holding my breath that Democrats get themselves in line, make a decision what we're going to do so we can start talking to voters about the real threat, which is Donald Trump.

COOPER: Congressman, what do you say to that argument, which I've heard a lot from Democrats, who say, look, anytime you are talking about problems that President Biden has, you are not talking about, you know, issues that President Trump - former President Trump has. And that's wrong for you to do as a Democrat that - who doesn't want Trump.

So, Congressman, what do you say to those people and say, why are you, you know, adding more attention to the problems that President Biden has? Why aren't you only talking about former President Trump?

RYAN: Well, two things. One, and I don't disagree with anything that was just said. I completely agree with it. And we want to get that message out. I would just say that a major aspect of being loyal to anybody in any relationship that you're in, including the one that we're in right now, is being honest.

I mean, honest undergirds loyalty. And to see what we saw during the debate, to see the George Stephanopoulos interview, you know, to see what happened in those two slip-ups last night, and to know enough about modern-day politics and modern-day media that that's what's going to be covered because that's the narrative now, is whether or not Joe Biden's going to make it through an event, how's he going to mess up, how is it going to hurt our standing in the world, how's he going to be able to go against Putin.

And the main point is, you got to be honest because that's part of loyalty. The other piece is, we want this campaign to be about Donald Trump, and it's not about Donald Trump right now. That's what we want. And so put Kamala Harris in there. Let her prosecute that case. Let us let go of all this negativity and all these questions, and let's get someone in there that can actually prosecute the case.

Anderson, I cannot tell you how many Americans, and you know this, you've been reporting for how many years. Americans are dying for generational change. We've been having these same stupid fights since the Vietnam War, and it's time we look at those double haters in the polling. They don't want Biden. They don't want Trump.

As Democrats, we have an opportunity to give them somebody different. Let go of this negativity. Let's get a message that is elevated, that's aspirational, that can really tap into what's best in America, whether it's AI or blockchain or chip manufacturing. How do we light this country up?

And we can't do it if we don't have generational change, and that's my concern. And you put a generational candidate in for the Democrats right now, someone like Kamala Harris, who has the kind of skills and chops and experience that she has against Donald Trump, we will blow him out. We will win the House, and we will have a good chance of hanging on to the Senate.

Our base will be juiced. Young people will be juiced, and we'll have a great opportunity to get in these industrial states and make the case to working-class people, whether they're white or black or brown or gay or straight or men or women. They're going to come our way.

COOPER: Kate, as you know, CNN Jeff Zeleny reported, former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, former President Obama have spoken about the future of President Biden's candidacy. A, do you think the President would listen to either of them if they were to go to him and suggest that he step aside? And also, just what is the - how long can this go on for?

[20:10:00]

I mean, what is the time - how long - I mean, because it seems like this discussion can go on endlessly because for every event that the President does, you can see if you think he is, you know, impaired, there are things you can point to and - for evidence. And if you think he's just fine, there's plenty you can point to as well.

So it - from just watching events, it could go on for as long as people want to talk about this stuff. But from the political counter, when does this have to stop? A decision has to be made.

BEDINGFIELD: Well, first, can I actually just respond to the Congressman's point? COOPER: Sure.

BEDINGFIELD: Because I (INAUDIBLE) think this argument about generational change. Look, we had an open primary in the Democratic Party in 2019. Candidates of all ages and generations ran very competitively. Democratic voters chose Joe Biden. They liked Joe Biden's vision for the country. They liked what he was going to do to bolster the middle class. They liked the argument he was making against Donald Trump and then he came into office and made good on so many of those promises that he made on the campaign trail.

So I don't think that there is this notion that somehow Democratic voters and moderate swing, independent voters who are going to help decide this election are somehow only fired up by the notion of generational change. They're fired up by what Joe Biden has been able to accomplish and his vision for the country.

So I think I would just dispute that fundamentally that's what - that there's an outcry for that right now.

COOPER: Okay.

BEDINGFIELD: You know, to your question, Anderson, about how long this can go on, I would argue not very long. I think we have had two weeks now of people expressing themselves, raising their concerns. I think it has been a valid conversation. I think Joe Biden has been very, very clear he's not getting out of this race. He's given a number of performances over the last week that I would argue satisfy what people have requested of him, including what we just saw him do right there, which is essentially light up an entire gym in a swing state of people chanting and excited about his candidacy.

So, you know, I would argue this has got to come to an end. We need to unify behind the nominee and let's go turn all of this fire and energy on Donald Trump and not on each other.

COOPER: Congressman Ryan, Ashley Allison, Kate Bedingfield ...

ALLISON: Can I say what ...

COOPER: I - we - I'm sorry, I'm so tight on time.

ALLISON: That's okay.

COOPER: I've got a congresswoman waiting. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining us now is Michigan Congresswoman Hillary Scholten, who is calling on President Biden to leave the race.

Congresswoman, the President was defiant tonight in Michigan, insisting he's staying at the race. He seemed to be enjoying the give and take with the audience. At some point, do the calls for him to get out become moot?

REP. HILLARY SCHOLTEN (D-MI): You know, it's great to see that the President had a good day. You know, he's had a good 24 hours. But, you know, as I said in my statement, this is not about today. This is about tomorrow and the future.

And the President has had an incredible legacy, one that anyone would be happy to run on or retire on. And, you know, there is no greater legacy than one that he has built in his career in the Senate and the vice presidency. But we're talking about who is the best nominee for the next four years. And there have been serious concerns that have been raised and not been addressed in the last 12 days since the debate.

COOPER: You heard the comment from the head of the UAW expressing concerns about Democrats ignoring reality, referencing, you know, Hillary Clinton back as - you know, and the implication being that he knew then and others knew then that she wasn't going to win, but it was sort of forced upon them. There's the report ...

SCHOLTEN: Yes.

COOPER: ... that Leader Jeffries did not offer President Biden his endorsement during their meeting. I mean, what evidence do you see that anybody can change the President's mind?

SCHOLTEN: You know, I don't know. As I said in my statement, you know, this is the President's decision and the President's decision to make. It's not up to me to change his mind, but it is up to me to voice the concerns of my constituents and my voters, who have overwhelmingly been reaching out to me and expressing concern here about what's going to happen, right? What is going to happen ...

COOPER: Do you think he'll lose Michigan? Do you think he can win Michigan?

SCHOLTEN: You know, I am not a political pundit, but we certainly - you know, you can't ignore the fact that Michigan has been downgraded, right, from a lean Democratic race to a tossup. I leave that to the experts. You know, the Senate race has been downgraded. The presidential race has been downgraded. It's concerning.

COOPER: And I mean, you're not a pollster, but you are a politician and you talk to people all the time. So the - I mean, are you hearing this ...

SCHOLTEN: Yes.

COOPER: ... the frustration that you are voicing is representative of what you are hearing from your constituents?

SCHOLTEN: Yes, absolutely. I mean, we are hearing concerns on the ground. You know, I think, honestly, Anderson, even more frustratingly, you know, we're hearing people who are saying, well, I just don't know if I'll show up and vote, right? Young voters.

[20:15:04]

I'm a millennial mom. I've got two young kids. We want to be able to present to them an exciting vision for the future. You know, we want to go barreling into November knowing that we can win and not only win this election, but win the future of our country, not just manage not to lose, you know, to someone who threatens to bring in authoritarian rule to the United States.

And the stakes could not be higher. And, you know, I knew that I could not continue to hear these concerns to have them myself and not speak up. I want to be able to look my children in eye and say, in this moment, I saw a challenge. I knew that we still had an opportunity to respond and I did something about it.

COOPER: Congresswoman Scholten, appreciate your time. Thank you.

Coming up next, by contrast, we'll speak with one of the President's staunchest supporters, California congresswoman, Barbara Lee, joins us.

Also, a rescued hostage speaking out about the Hamas terrorists who kept him in - first in ropes and then chains in what the moment was like when Israeli commandos rescued him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:01]

COOPER: Just moments ago, President Biden offered critics of his political viability, a defiant rebuttal speaking to supporters in Detroit. Here's some of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Folks, you've probably noticed, there's been a lot of speculation lately. What's Joe Biden going to do? Is he going to stay in the race? Is he going to drop out? Here's my answer: I am running and we're going to win. I'm not going to change that.

In fact, yesterday, in the Marist poll released the national poll, it has me beating Trump 50 to 48. (INAUDIBLE) places, so much of my narrative, my campaign is falling apart, they say. I'm the nominee of the Democratic Party, the only Democrat or Republican who has ever beaten Donald Trump ever. I'm going to beat him again. I know him. Donald Trump is a loser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: It was met by calls from some in the crowd saying, lock him up, which is obviously harkening back to things that were said during the last election from President Trump's crowds. Yet, as passionate as they and the President evidently were, the President is facing doubts from within his own party still, from the congresswoman that we just spoke to before the break, from House - top House Democrat Hakeem Jeffries, who, as we mentioned, did not offer his own endorsement when he met with the President last night.

Joining us now, a colleague of Minority Leader Jeffries, as well as another prominent member of the Congressional Black Caucus, California congresswoman, Barbara Lee. It's good to have you here in studio.

REP. BARBARA LEE (D-CA): (INAUDIBLE) being here.

COOPER: A strong showing there by President Biden, clearly defiant, clearly he's telegraphing he is in this thing, he's not listening to what anyone's saying. How long can this go on?

LEE: Anderson, I think he is listening to what everyone is saying. And I believe that people really are seeing the real President Joe Biden. He did not sugar coat the debate. He was very clear about the problems and the difficulties with that debate. And we've known President Biden - I've known him for many years and worked with him. You know, he's known to make gaffes. Okay. Well, but look at who he is and what he has done.

Fifteen million jobs, insulin capped at $35. When you look at negotiating prescription drugs, when you look at the economy and how the inflation rates are beginning to come down and he's fought for people each and every day, ordinary people, working men and women, people of color. And so it's not just about what he's done and what he's delivered, but it's about the roadmap to the future. What he has done is an indicator of what he intends to do.

COOPER: I've spoken to a number of pretty big donors over the last couple of days who all obviously support President Biden, but are deeply concerned because you said the debate was clear, you know, what went wrong, but it's not really clear why it went wrong. And, you know, his jet lag has been one thing. His campaign said he had a cold, just a bad night.

You know, Speaker Pelosi had suggested, you know, was this just a one off or is this a condition and could this happen again. And could this happen if there is another debate just a month or two before the election.

LEE: Who knows why? That's speculation. I think what's important is ...

COOPER: But is it important to try to (INAUDIBLE) ...

LEE: It's important for people to understand what took place and important for him to be honest. And I believe that he has been honest. When you look at Donald Trump, who is a pathological liar, when you look at the fact that he wants to dismantle our democracy and establish a dictatorship, when you look at - and I was sitting on the floor of Congress on January 6th, that he almost formatted that - and a coup and tried to thwart the transfer of power.

When you look at the fact he's a convicted felon, yet the Republicans are sticking by him. They don't even care. I mean, you contrast that with all of the projections and discussion about the what ifs with President Biden. I'd say let's move forward with someone who has proven that he can deliver for the American people and also on the world stage. He understands foreign policy. He understands the world in which we live. And so I'm not prepared to tell anyone that I'm not going to wait and see. I'm going to continue to work because it's going to be the voters. And I think we saw in Michigan and other areas, it's the voters who are going to make sure that he's re-elected.

COOPER: So what do you think happens in the next couple of days? I mean, you know, there was talk of Speaker Pelosi, Jeff Zeleny who reported she had a conversation with former President Obama. There was a discussion a couple days ago when Chuck Schumer go to speak to the President.

I mean, is there any - do you - I mean, does this kind of drip, drip, drip go along? Is there some final resolution?

[20:25:02]

LEE: Well, I hope that we become unified as a party and move forward. We cannot allow Donald Trump to win.

Next, I just want to say, I think the discussions and the chatter and the different points of views are healthy for our democracy, Anderson.

COOPER: What are you hearing from donors?

LEE: I'm hearing - and let me tell you about donors, this is very important because we've got to get to public financing of campaigns period that - you know, and I'm hearing from some donors who - and you know, many have said that they weren't going to put money into the campaign anymore, weren't going to fund the campaign.

But, you know, President Biden, yes, relies on donors, but he has a large number of small donors and grassroots donors. And I believe at the end of the day, the larger donors will, you know, come back because they're going to see that - look at the polls, for example. The polls have him, if not neck and neck, just a bit ahead of Donald Trump is something else.

COOPER: Although in swing states - I mean, this boils down to swing states and there was that Cook report of, you know, showing a number of swing states not looking good for him. You think there's enough time for him to make that up?

LEE: I think so, and I'd have to rely on the voters of swing states. But let me tell you, I know myself and members of the Congressional Black Caucus, we had a very candid conversation with the President and, in fact, handled it appropriately. And I believe that everyone is going to help swing state voters and help candidates in swing states to make sure that we win.

No one said it was going to be easy, but I think when you contrast him with Donald Trump, that's not the only issue, though. But when you look at how he saved lives and livelihoods during the COVID pandemic, and when you look at how hard he has fought to make sure that the cost of living comes down, the cost of groceries, the cost of gasoline, he has to continue this work. And I'm adamant about that, Anderson, you know. And I don't get out there too often on - for too many candidates. And he's been a president you can talk to, and that ordinary people can look up to. And he has integrity and honesty, and he's smart. And, you know, he's 81 years old, and he's got a lot of experience and right now, the world needs experience.

COOPER: Congresswoman Lee, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

LEE: Thank you. Nice being with you.

COOPER: A remarkable new interview coming up with one of the four hostages rescued in that surprising daylight operation by Israeli defense forces last month. Our Bianna Golodryga spoke with him and joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:31:32]

COOPER: While President Biden touted a framework for a ceasefire and hostage deal between Israel and Hamas, today a source familiar with the talks tells CNN he said there is, quote, "still a long time to go," end quote.

In a new interview, Andrey Kozlov, one of four hostages freed in a stunning daylight rescue by the IDF last month, spoke to CNN about the months of intense psychological, also physical abuse, he says, he suffered as a hostage.

Kozlov is a Russian-Israeli citizen who was working as a security guard at the Nova music festival when Hamas attacked on October 7th. He tells CNN that he considers himself lucky. Other hostages he saw while captive were in worse shape.

Bianna Golodryga joins us now. Israeli doctors confirmed that he was subjected to psychological, physical abuse.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, physically he looked good, but when you ask him how they treated you and the other hostages, he said there were multiple incidents where they would abuse them verbally. One point, he had to sit under three blankets in the heat for hours on end for no reason when the bombing began, when the war began, and they could hear the IDF bombs, every single day.

He said that the captors were telling them that it was the IDF coming to kill you because you're a problem for them. And so they're trying to bomb you to find you to end all of this. They would say your family doesn't care about you. They're off on vacation.

One of the other captors was married. He said, your wife has probably found someone else. And while they knew that this likely wasn't true, when you hear it repeatedly, it really clearly got to them. And he said that abuse started from the day they got into Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOLODRYGA: Were you scared?

ANDREY KOZLOV, HELD HOSTAGE FOR EIGHT MONTHS BY HAMAS: It was condition of shock. I was not scared. I didn't realize, like, what's going on. And they took us, they tied up, hands like this, put us on the floor. And I started to explain them, like, Ya Russkiy. Ya Russkiy.

GOLODRYGA: I'm Russian.

KOZLOV: I'm Russian. Like (foreign language). I don't speak Hebrew. I speak only Russian and English to explain them, like, what can we do. Some guy was from the left side of me and he has like gun. I try to like touch him and ask him like, you ask, kill us.

GOLODRYGA: You asked him if they were planning to kill you?

KOZLOV: Yes, I asked him, like, it's only one thought that I had, like, what are they going to do with us. In couple of hours they brought Almog, like the same day. And in some moment, one guy, he was, like, I was really scared about him. I was really afraid.

And he took fabric from my ass and showed me with signs, like, I, tomorrow, you, I will film you, and I will kill you. It was in the first day of our being in Gaza.

GOLODRYGA: Your mom said that you were tied up like that for two months.

KOZLOV: The first three days was with ropes. Until middle of December, we were in chains.

[20:35:00]

GOLODRYGA: You were tied with chains?

KOZLOV: With chains. They were afraid that we will run away, like, maybe, I don't know. But in December, they took off and we were free.

GOLODRYGA: So tell me about that day of the rescue, June 8th.

KOZLOV: We were sure in that day, in 8th of June, that it was like regular morning. I was reading some book about Marco Polo.

GOLODRYGA: They gave you books?

KOZLOV: A couple. Like -- for, like, they gave us book only in April. They gave us also some stories about Quran. You can read, you cannot read, we don't care. So, we read it. Of course, we read because it's like to take our mind with something.

And sometimes, like, suddenly, like, in every window that we had, like, started to -- little explosions. And they're already inside, like, they -- and I was like, ah, what's going on? What's going on? You're like, you're a little bit freezed, you're in shock, you're afraid. Of course, of course. If they, if it is, like, Israeli army, I thought that they told us that if they come to rescue, we will kill you. Like, don't think that we will give them to rescue. I understood that it's a -- that's a hall (ph). I will -- I prayed, like, they had like couple of seconds to kill us. I mean --

GOLODRYGA: They were in the room with you.

KOZLOV: Not in the same room, but they have like 5 meters, like one shoot. But they didn't do this. Like, they were killed maybe in like five seconds. They started to ask our names, like, sham, sham, Probably you saw it in the video.

(Speaking Foreign Language)

KOZLOV: It's Israeli army. And some guy, he was Russian speaker. He asked me like, Andrey, Andrey. He told me in Russian. I will translate to you, like, I will go with you. You will go with me, only with me. 2 meters maximum from me. We will rescue. Today, you will be at home.

I was like, at home today? Already today? Really? You don't joke. He said, yes, yes, (INAUDIBLE). OK, (INAUDIBLE). Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it.

GOLODRYGA: Did you watch the video of your rescue?

KOZLOV: A lot of times.

GOLODRYGA: A lot of times?

KOZLOV: A lot. Even today.

GOLODRYGA: Why?

KOZLOV: It's something great. And it was something special for me. And it's my third birthday. The first one was on 7th of October. And the third one, in the 8th of the June. And of course I, like, I remember this. I made this tattoo. It's scars that I got from 7th of October when I fall from the cliff and some bushes cut my skin.

GOLODRYGA: We all saw the video of when you were reunited with your mother at the hospital. As a mother, it brought tears to my eyes to see how you fell down on your knees, hugging her. Do you know how difficult I would imagine you do, those eight months were for them.

KOZLOV: I was so afraid not to see them.

GOLODRYGA: You thought you'd never see them again?

KOZLOV: I was afraid. I imagined how -- that my mother and father and brother will not hear the words I love you anymore.

[20:40:08]

I know that 120 hostages are still there and fortunately for me, I was lucky. Unfortunately for them, they are still in Gaza and they don't know when they will come back. It's absolutely disgusting and terrible feelings.

I don't imagine how it, like, how to live in tunnels. We need bring them home as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: It's incredible to hear from him. How is he readjusting? I mean, I can't imagine.

GOLODRYGA: He said he's doing well. He's happy. He has good days. He says he has bad days too, and he just lets himself cry, and however long that takes. I asked him if he has spoken to Almog and Shlomi, the other two hostages who he was with for eight months. They were inseparable, and he is so grateful they were together.

And it was interesting because he said they haven't spoken. And they clearly just need to take this time to begin to try to readjust at home.

COOPER: Yes, incredible. Bianna, thank you so much for doing that. Bianna Golodryga.

Just ahead, details about what CNN has learned will be a rare return to the public eye next week from Melania Trump. Plus breaking news in the case against Alec Baldwin, which is now the former case. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:49]

COOPER: Sources tell CNN that former First Lady Melania Trump will make a rare appearance at next week's Republican National Convention. Not yet clear whether she'll speak or take formal part in the proceedings. As you know, she's been largely absent from her husband's campaign, did not attend his New York criminal trial.

Our Randi Kaye took a look at where she has been in recent months and how her last appearance at the RNC played out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you going to return to the campaign trail with your husband?

MELANIA TRUMP, FORMER FIRST LADY: Stay tuned.

RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That was Melania Trump in March this year telling reporters to, quote, "stay tuned" about her return to the campaign trail. Since teasing that possibility, Melania has mostly stayed out of the public eye. She was at Donald Trump's side at Mar-a-Lago in November 2022 when he announced his third bid for the White House, and the former president has been teasing her return for months.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's a private person, a great person, very confident person, and she loves our country very much. She'll be at the appropriate time. She'll be out there.

KAYE (voice-over): While also trying to explain away her absence, as he did on Megyn Kelly's podcast.

D. TRUMP: She's introspective and she's confident. She doesn't need to be out there.

KAYE (voice-over): The only person who decides if and when Melania gets out there is Melania herself. A source close to the former president tells CNN that Melania dictates her own involvement. "She is very selective and methodical in what she wants to do and how she presents herself."

On Super Tuesday, Melania was out of view while her husband celebrated at their Mar-a-Lago estate.

D. TRUMP: I want to thank my family for being here.

KAYE (voice-over): When the former president was on trial in New York for the hush money case, Melania did not attend. Nor did she show up for CNN's presidential debate in Atlanta last month. In recent months, she has appeared at private events, including a fundraiser this month for the Log Cabin Republicans, a conservative LGBTQ group, as well as an April fundraiser alongside her husband at the home of investor John Paulson.

At the upcoming convention, it's still unclear if Melania will have any formal speaking role, though she did at the last two Republican National Conventions. In 2016, her speech made headlines after it came to light that some lines had been plagiarized from the speech given by Michelle Obama at the 2008 Democratic National Convention.

M. TRUMP: My parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life. That your work is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values. Like, you work hard for what you want in life. That your word is your bond, that you do what you say you're going to do.

KAYE (voice-over): Days later, a family friend and staff writer for the Trump Organization took responsibility for the borrowed lines in Melania's speech and apologized. The Trumps rejected her offer to resign. In 2020, the Republican convention was upended due to the COVID-19 pandemic. So Melania Trump delivered her speech from the White House Rose Garden.

M. TRUMP: My husband's administration will not stop fighting until there is an effective treatment or vaccine available to everyone.

KAYE (voice-over): She also spoke about the American Dream and the love she says both she and Donald Trump have for this country.

M. TRUMP: There are no words to describe how honored, humbled and fortunate I am to serve our nation as your first lady. (END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And Randi Kaye joins us now. Has she commented at all about what she may do at RNC?

KAYE (on-camera): No. She hasn't commented and a spokesperson for Melania didn't respond to CNN's request for comment either. But really, Anderson, it's about more than just this upcoming convention. It's really about the next four months as this campaign winds down.

There are a lot of questions about what her role might be. Is she going to get out there on the campaign trail some more? Is she going to stump for her husband? We just don't know. But we do know that Trump -- the Trump campaign and Trump's close aides have said that she is in full support of what her husband is doing.

She supports the campaign. She supports what they want to do. She's just been very busy raising their son, Barron.

[20:50:01]

COOPER: All right, Randi, thanks very much.

Still to come, breaking news tonight in the criminal trial of actor Alec Baldwin and the surprising decision from the judge.

Plus, the bill comes due for Rudy Giuliani as the judge strips him of bankruptcy protection from creditors, what he owes, and the amount of money he says he needs every month to live on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A stunning decision today by the judge in the Alec Baldwin criminal trial. One that brought his prosecution over the death of cinematographer on the set of his Western Rust to a sudden end. CNN's Josh Campbell joins us now with the latest on the decision that shocked observers and reduced Alec Baldwin to tears in the courtroom. So what happened, Josh?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, shocking indeed. I was in the courtroom when this was happening. And as a judge appeared to signal that she was about to throw this case out, you can see people looking left and right kind of in disbelief as she went through her lengthy ruling. This all stemmed from a motion that Baldwin's team had filed, essentially accusing the state of misconduct of not properly handing over items of evidence.

[20:55:04]

And, you know, today was really strange in that you can essentially see the prosecution's case unraveling throughout the day. At one point, the prosecutor herself took the witness stand in order to try to defend the actions of the state. Another time, the co-special prosecutor in the case abruptly resigned today.

So you all kind of started to see this going hill for the -- downhill for the prosecution. The judge finally bringing everyone, all parties together making her ruling that, look, this case has to be thrown out. And as she described her decision, what she said was that this type of misconduct, not properly handing over evidence is a threat to the judicial system. The public has to have confidence in the judicial judicial system.

She said this is a wrong that the court cannot write. The case is dismissed. Afterwards, the special prosecutor that was left in the case came out and address reporters. She said she respects the judge's decision, but maintains that this evidence in question had nothing to do with the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARI MORRISSEY, SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: There is no reason to believe that the evidence that we discussed in court today was related to the set of Rust. It never left the state of Arizona. I understand that the court disagrees with me and I respect the court's decision. There is absolutely no evidence that any of that ammunition is related to the incident involving Ms. Hutchins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMPBELL: Now, as the ruling was read, Baldwin broke down in tears. He was comforted by his own attorneys. His family was sobbing. They were all embracing each other. Of course, on the other side of this equation is a family of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer who was killed. We have reached out to her representatives for comment, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, I mean this whole -- I mean, the prosecution case has been riddled with issues from the beginning. It seems like charges against him have been dismissed before. I mean, could prosecutors bring this case back again?

CAMPBELL: No, it's so important. The way the judge ruled here, she dismissed his indictment what's called with prejudice, which means that there is no way that they will be able to retrial Baldwin. Even if they wanted to, they can't correct their mistakes. There will be no prosecution of Alec Baldwin for this incident. Tonight, he's a free man, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Josh Campbell, thanks very much.

Now, the man formerly known as America's mayor, disgraced Trump ally, Rudy Giuliani, he defamed two Georgia election workers, was ordered to pay nearly $150 million dollars in damages, declared bankruptcy. Today a judge stripped him of bankruptcy protection, meaning creditors can now take action to collect. The thing is, he's living quite large.

CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten joins me now to break it down. So what do the court records show about the state of his spending habits?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, you know, they -- he essentially promised that in January, he'd try and keep his spending under control. Keep it to a little bit more than $40,000. He ended up spending nearly $120,000 he admitted in court documents.

What is he spending --

COOPER: $120,000 a month?

ENTEN: A month. In the month of January. What was he spending on? Well, you know, some of it is stuff like you and I might spend on, right? He spent money on Amazon, for example. But he was spending a lot of money on Amazon, perhaps as much as I spend a year.

I was looking at his credit card statement, it looked like he was spending more than $1,000, thousands of dollars on Amazon. He spent money on flights. He spent money on JetBlue, flying down from LaGuardia down to Florida. He also went to Smith & Wollensky. It's a very good steakhouse in New York.

COOPER: I'm familiar with it. I used to live near it.

ENTEN: Exactly right. But the fact --

COOPER: It's been around forever.

ENTEN: It's been around forever. But the fact is, if you're trying to contain your spending, it's probably not best to dine out at a place like Smith & Wollensky. It might be better to perhaps dine at a place like Sunlight (ph).

COOPER: And what about his assets, because most of his money, Giuliani says, is in his properties in Florida and New York?

ENTEN: Yes. So what is there beyond just his properties in Florida and New York? Creditors believe that there's a lot there. For example, he has Three World Series rings. If you know anything about Rudy Giuliani, you know he's a huge Yankees fan. Creditors believe that he might be underestimating how much those rings are worth.

They could be worth in total more than $30,000, for example. There are other places where he might, in fact, get some money. For example, I don't know if you know this, but Rudy Giuliani is now marketing a coffee.

COOPER: Yes.

ENTEN: Yes, yes.

COOPER: But, I mean, there's -- I mean, the judgment is $150 million. His apartment in Florida and New York --

ENTEN: That's --

COOPER: -- and a couple rings, that's not going to get close.

ENTEN: It's not going to cut it. But the fact is he's, you know, you're trying to keep just building all of this stuff up, right?

COOPER: And I think you have some polling about sort of his people's perceptions of him.

ENTEN: Yes, yes. So, you know, to me, one of the things about Rudy Giuliani was I grew up under his mayoralty, right? After 9/11, he was a hero to many people. His favorable rating after 9/11 was near 80 percent.

COOPER: He went after the mob early on.

ENTEN: He went after the mob. A lot of people credited him with cleaning up crime in New York City. Remember, the crime rate dropped tremendously during his mayoralship and his favorable rating was quite high. But look where it is now. Look where it's dropped to.

Look at this, 16 percent. You know, Anderson, I love looking at numbers. I love looking at polling. I have never seen anybody have a 60-point drop in their favorable rating over just 20 years.

In fact, Richard Nixon's approval rating after, of course, he resigned the presidency was north of 20 percent. So Rudy Giuliani is liked by fewer Americans now than Richard Nixon was when he was forced to resign the presidency back in 1974. Quite a fall from grace. It's quite honestly sad.

COOPER: Harry Enten, thanks very much.

ENTEN: Thank you.

COOPER: Appreciate it.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.