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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Harris Has Focused On Shapiro, Walz In Final Hours Of VP Decision; No Clear Leader In Harris-Trump Race; Harris Brings New Energy To Dems In AZ, But Still Faces Challenges Mending Cracks In Biden's 2020 Coalition; Trump Calls ABC News Correspondent "Nasty, Terrible" After Confrontational Interview With Black Journalists; Top Trump Ally Repeatedly Defends Trump Attacks On Harris Heritage. Aired: 8-9p ET

Aired August 05, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELISA RAFFA, CNN METEOROLOGIST: So heavy rain like this is going to continue to be a problem specifically in the Lowcountry of Georgia and South Carolina, where up to 20 to 30 inches of rain possible, but just looking at what happened here today. We've got a trashcan that you can't barely see the top of. We have 15 inches of rainfall in just a couple of hours here. This is a community town center where they usually hold public events. It is totally inundated, all of that water making it to the doors of these businesses, taking debris with it in the streets.

So much of this community looks like this and again, the fear is that more communities will look like this in the coming days -- Dana

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Just horrible. Elisa, thank you so much for that report. Thank you for joining us. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:38]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on 360, then there were three or is it down two? New reporting as Kamala Harris narrows down her VP choices.

Also tonight, after markets tumble on recession fears, will the closing bell toll for she? The latest on the political impact.

And later, we are tracking the deadly conditions in the south where Tropical Storm Debby could dump two-and-a-half feet, that's right, feet of rain and cause major flooding before it's all over.

Good evening, everyone. John Berman here, in for Anderson and there is news happening or about to happen on many fronts tonight. Let's start with this posted late today on social media from Harris' campaign spokesperson Kevin Munoz, "We understand the excitement and interest here." he writes, "but VP Harris has made no decision on a running mate yet."

He was responding to a local reporter saying "she had." Now, that was posted at 4:26 PM, we don't know whether that is still operative here at 8:01 PM. What we do know is the vice president spoke yesterday with these three of the governors of Pennsylvania and Minnesota and Arizona Senator Mark Kelly.

And as CNN's Jeff Zeleny report momentarily, it could now be down to just two of the three. But whomever she chooses, the announcement will come at a moment when her two weeks of political good fortune may have run out, not with a bang or a whimper or a poll, which had been promising, but a bell.

Stock markets here and overseas took a beating with the Dow and S&P indexes recording their worst day since 2022. The slide began Friday when the government reported weak jobs numbers for July. And even though markets are higher since he left office, and in fact, they're still up quite a bit for the year, the former president was quick to pounce with a flurry of posts on his social media network, quoting one of them, "Voters have a choice -- Trump prosperity, or the Kamala crash and great depression of 2024. not to mention the probability of World War IIII if these very stupid people remain in office."

Remember Trump he says, was right about everything. Just a quick factual point according to government figures, the US economy grew by an estimated 2.8 percent in the most recent quarter and has been growing steadily since the end of the pandemic. So we are not in a recession, let alone a depression or a great depression, or on the brink of World War III.

That said, Donald Trump is not wrong in sensing that in presidential politics, very little matters more to an election, than how voters perceive the state of the economy. So with that, as the backdrop, let's start things off with CNN's Jeff Zeleny in his new reporting on the VP search. Jeff, I was texting you a few minutes ago saying, who is it? Who is it? You told me, I had to wait until you were on TV with us tonight. So, what is the latest you're learning?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: John, one thing I can tell you by tomorrow night at this time in this program, we will have seen already Vice President Harris and her running mate and the chemistry that they either do or don't have after their first rally in Philadelphia.

That is their first event, but I am told we are going to learn who that candidate is, whoever he may be earlier tomorrow morning. The campaign I'm told is planning on releasing a video message delivering the biggest news of her campaign so far.

Why are they doing it like this? They are simply trying to build their list of supporters. Look, for the last two weeks or so, she's been on a rocket ride in terms of signing up volunteers, raising money. They want to continue on that path. So, who are the contenders?

Our reporting suggests that the final contenders after she's gone through a variety of the Democratic bench are two governors, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, Both of whom met with the vice president. we are told over the weekend at the Naval Observatory here in Washington.

She also met with Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, But I am told that she is focusing on these governors. Governors, in particular, from different parts of the country. Yes, Josh Shapiro, as we know, comes from Pennsylvania. That is where she is heading tomorrow, so that might be an indication that it could be him or perhaps not.

She will need him regardless whether she picks him or not. But those 19 electoral votes are so important.

And Tim Walz, I was a bit of a late bloomer in this contest, but has caught many Democrats -- the attention and imagination of many Democrats here. He is well known in the Midwest and that is where she needs him. She is going there on the second stop of her trip this week across battleground states to neighboring Wisconsin.

[20:05:03]

So, those are her top contenders, we are told. But again, this is her decision and her decision to make.

John, the campaign is trying to approve its loyalty to her. This newly founded campaign by not allowing any leaks to happen and by allowing her to roll this out on her own terms, so they would like this to be unveiled tomorrow morning in a video message and then have their first appearance tomorrow night in Philadelphia.

BERMAN: I actually have to say, given the tightly sealed nature of this, that's quite a bit of information you've been able to dig up so far and also, you've got some info about what the campaign likes or how each candidate has done well in the vetting.

ZELENY: Right, I mean, look, these are conversations and chemistry that the vice president is looking for and it's really extraordinary. We've not seen for 24 years a sitting vice president interviewing running mates of their own, it was back to Al Gore and Joe Lieberman in 2000.

So, of course, she knows what she's looking for in a vice president, in a running mate. So, those are the kind of conversations that she was having with them. And of course, history will show us a lot more about this extraordinary process over the last 15 days or so.

She's been campaigning out with a lot of these candidates, these candidates have been campaigning. In fact, Tim Walz tonight in Minneapolis, right now, is at a fundraiser for the Harris campaign. So, they are working right up to the end. We do not believe that they know her decision either.

But again, John, history as you well know, often sheds more light on this very secretive process. But this is a decision that could really set into motion for the Democratic Party should they win in November.

I think it's going out years into the 2030s. Think back to that 2008 decision by Barack Obama to pick Joe Biden that got us where we are today. Had he picked someone else that night, maybe Tim Kaine for example, as he was thinking about, it, would have been an entirely different situation for history

BERMAN: All right, Jeff Zeleny, go work the phones, we are on here until 9:00 on back on the air at 7:00 AM, so, if you don't get anything, now, come back then. We'll see you.

With us now, CNN senior political commentator, David Axelrod also 2020 Trump campaign press communications director Erin Perrine and CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers.

David, let me start with you. Tim Walz, Josh Shapiro, and then there were two. What is the fact that it being these two tell you?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well look, I think, one thing it tells me is she's got two distinctive paths here because Tim Waltz would be the safe driver award choice. He has no sharp edges. He's well liked in the party. He's, obviously, gone on a charm offensive over the last week. He has been on everything but "The Home Garden Network" and he's done very, very well and you hear people talking about him. He's got this folksy style and so on.

Josh Shapiro, a little more edgy, dynamic in some ways. But he's the governor of a state that has 19 electoral votes. A state that both Republicans and Democrats say she has to win in order to become president of the United States. Highly unlikely that she'll take a different path. It could happen. Highly unlikely. So he's a very popular governor in that state. She's going to win Minnesota. He's very popular in that state.

And so, it would be a math decision in some ways to do it. But the left has been resistant to Josh Shapiro and they've run a very strong campaign to try and block him. So, it would be also a kind of a declaration of independence on her part to say, I love you, but this is my choice. I'm going my own way.

BERMAN: Bakari Sellers, you're pretty close to the Harris campaign. A: Do you have any special insight you want to share with us tonight? B: If Tim Walz is the safe pick, can Kamala Harris afford a safe pick right now?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well A, I don't have anything to share with you all and 'B' or 'A' and '2', as we say down in Denmark, South Carolina, I do think Tim Waltz is the do-no-harm pick. And I love Josh Shapiro. I love Tim Walz. In fact, the governor of Minnesota was -- he wasn't anywhere in my top three or four choices and I've echoed that two people who would listen.

My favorite choice is someone who Jeff Zeleny says out of the race, which is Mark Kelly. I think Mark Kelly's resume, I think the things Mark Kelly brings to the ticket in the fact that he brings Gabby Giffords with her is probably the best choice of the three. And so, we'll see if that holds up.

But at the end of the day, David is right in the fact that there is no pathway that Kamala Harris becomes president of the United States of America without winning Pennsylvania. However, you have to look at the blowback that comes with Josh Shapiro being the nominee, and that blowback means that college students go back to campus and the question is his response to the protests?

You have to look at October 7th, where -- and the unique part about this is -- this is the funny part about this online conversation. Myself as a Black guy from South Carolina, Josh Shapiro and Tim Walz, and Mark Kelly all have the same views on Israel.

[20:10:11]

However, the blowback that Josh Shapiro has gotten is something that I deem to be unfair, but it is what it is. And so, the question is, do you want to stop momentum or do you want to be able to continue the momentum you have? But at the end of the day, I've said end of the day twice, but this is what Ax said earlier, this is her decision to make. That's her gut. Who is her governing partner, who's our best governing partner?

BERMAN: Look, and we should just know Josh Shapiro is the one of these things and not like the other. He is the one who is Jewish there even though the four people you listed there all have largely the same view on Israel.

Erin Perrine, great to see you tonight. You've been involved in VP vetting before. How much does it come down to the resume or electability or just chemistry?

ERIN PERRINE, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN PRESS COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: A lot of it comes down to chemistry, but there is a very thorough vetting process that goes into the vice presidential selection. I was with Paul Ryan in 2012. I was on his team and help put all that information together for him to be Mitt Romney's running mate.

We sent five binders of information full of financial information, family information, history. It took a long time to put together out to Boston for Mitt's team to be able to go through. And then later on they asked for additional information. My concern for Democrats here is they've a very truncated short runway here of 15 days since Joe Biden announced he was dropping out and to try and do a very thorough vetting process on a VP nominee.

You're already seeing some of that opposition research blowback start right now on Josh Shapiro where a paper he wrote when he was 20-years- old at the University of Rochester in my hometown of Rochester, New York, is already being brought back out and he's having to try and defend that.

How much are they going to miss in the vetting process due to the truncated timeframe that's going to put their VP nominee even if they believe it's safe into a heavy scrutiny phase that they weren't prepared for.

BERMAN: You know, it's interesting brining up vetting, sorry, go ahead Ax.

AXELROD: No, I'm just going to say there's no doubt what Erin is saying is true and this is a hazard of the short timetable, but Donald Trump had months and picked JD Vance and there was a huge apple dumped on JD Vance.

So time doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're going to make the right decision.

BERMAN: That's sort of what I was just going to say. I mean, they had all the time of the world. Trump had all the time in the world. picked JD Vance clearly, it looks like he probably missed some stuff in the vetting, like Vance talking about childless cat ladies.

AXELROD: Or he ignored it.

BERMAN: Or ignored it to the point Usha Vance, the wife of JD Vance had to come out today. This is what, two weeks after the pick was made, three weeks after the pick and tried to clean it up. Listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

USHA VANCE, WIFE OF JD VANCE: The reality is JD, made a quote, I mean, he made a quip and he made a quip in service of making a point that he wanted to make that was substantive. And I just wish sometimes that people would talk about those things and that we would spend a lot less time just sort of going through this three-word phrase or that three-word phrase because what he was really saying is that it can be really hard to be a parent in this country and sometimes our policies are designed in a way that make it even harder. And we should be asking ourselves, why is that true?

What is it about our leadership and the way that they think about the world that makes it so hard sometimes for parents?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You know, Erin, the old saying goes, if you're explaining, you're losing, I don't know what the saying is, if your wife is explaining something that you said repeatedly by the way.

PERRINE: That means she's right. That's what it is. It means she's right.

BERMAN: As someone married for over 20 years, I can tell you. Yes -- no, in general.

Bakari, you're laughing. What do you make of what Usha Vance had to do there?

SELLERS: First of all, if I said something that dumb, my wife wouldn't roll, she wouldn't go out there. She wouldn't roll with me. She'll be like you have to go explain this dumb stuff on your own. But I think that both guests are correct and at the end of the day, this is a unique situation because we're a big tent party and were actually asking cultural questions and were asking questions about how far this country has come.

So let's be extremely blunt. I mean, let's think about Pete Buttigieg. Is the country ready for someone who is gay to be vice president of the United States who has an amazing husband and amazing children? You think about Josh Shapiro, the question is, is the country ready for three Jews or three individuals who are Jewish to be in the White House?

I mean, those are questions that people are asking and at the end of the day, I believe the answer to both of those questions resoundingly is yes. And I think Democrats have to embrace that, embrace that diversity, embrace where we are, embrace that we can push back against the underbelly of the country.

Whether or not she chooses Tim Walz, who is kind of a folksy Midwestern governor or whether or not she picks Josh Shapiro or whether or not she picks a war hero and an astronaut in Mark Kelly, or whether or not she picks Pete Buttigieg. I think you're examining the diversity of the country and the answer to every question I just asked you is the country ready for it? I think the country is ready for it. The answer is yes.

BERMAN: And we will soon see whether those questions will be asked because of decisions that have been made. Guys stick around. We got a lot more to discuss here, including on the economy, including on the VP pick. We're going to talk more about these past we mentioned and what Kamala Harris has to choose from in search of the 270 electoral votes she needs to win.

John King is at the Magic Wall for that, and later he's all over the map, John King is this time talking to voters in Arizona about the new choice they now have.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:19:18]

BERMAN: All right, as we wait for her running mate rollout and the attention it brings, we're also talking about the potential challenges ahead for Kamala Harris. Namely, that concerns about the economy could slow what has been a the two-week political role for her.

Right now, CNN's Poll of Polls, which includes the four most recent surveys that meet our standards shows no clear leader though polling, it runs only through last Friday and of course, presidential elections are contested state-by-state, which could be why Pennsylvania is popular governor is the top contender right now for the VP spot.

It is definitely why we are glad CNN's John King is at the Magic Wall for us, 270 electoral votes, that's what you need to win. Vice President Harris, what's her best path right now?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So let's walk through a couple of scenarios you were discussing with the panel. Number one, what I've done here is the yellow states on the map. Those are all states won by Joe Biden, Nebraska's second Congressional District won by Joe Biden in 2020. I've turned them into toss-ups here just for the sake of the conversation.

So, the blue wall strategy, right? That's the one say, Democrats have to win. That's the one that involves Pennsylvania. If Kamala Harris were to win Pennsylvania, win Michigan ,win Wisconsin, in the last five presidential elections, John, those three states have gone together.

They've gone together. So, 1-2-3. That would get her to 269. If she could win those three, even if she lost, Georgia, lost Arizona, and lost Nevada, that would get into 269 and she would only need, I'm saying only, it would be tough, but she could win with Nevada's second Congressional District.

So most Democrats say that's the way to do it with the exception of 2016, when Donald Trump won those three, those have been reliably Democratic states for the most part in presidential politics for the last 20 years or so. That's why they say that.

[20:20:52]

But is there another path if Donald Trump repeated his 2016 performance and took those three states. There he's at 279. Trump would win with what he has now, this is where and Axelrod knows this well. This is where you would need the full and the new Obama Sun Belt strategy. Obama won North Carolina in 2008. He lost it in 2012, but he won it in 2008 with historically high African American turnout. Can you then do that in Georgia as well? Go over and get it in Arizona, you need Latino voters here as well in Nevada.

So, you can do it, you can do it with the Sun Belt strategy and lose the blue wall. But most Democrats, I think all Democrats would tell you it's more risky. It would require a much more perfect campaign. and the thing that would require most is getting astronomical African American turnout and winning back on the Latinos who drifted away from President Biden.

BERMAN: It's like diving, the technical difficulty goes the way up if you try to do the Sun Belt strategy opposed to the Rust Belt there, how much money are we talking about being spent right now in these key states after President Biden dropped out?

KING: So, forgive me for turning my back. I want to stretch this out. This is the thing to watch, right? The money goes where the campaigns think they can play. So, is North Carolina actually going to be the play, right now, the Harris campaign, this is ad spending since Joe Biden got out of the race. So this is spending aimed to help Kamala Harris when you see the blue sign, this is Trump spending here.

If you're really competing in North Carolina, watch in a week or two or three has that number gone up. Right now, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona, and then to a lesser degree in Nevada, the traditional battleground states, if you will.

Again, Obama won North Carolina in '08. Democrats have wanted it since, but they haven't been able to get there. So watch this as it goes forward, but you see, everyone says Pennsylvania will decide it, well the campaign seem to agree, look at how much more money is going into Pennsylvania than anywhere else.

BERMAN: We're talking about a third party candidate, Robert Kennedy, the placer of a dead bear in Central Park. When he is in the polls where do things happen? KING: So, let me stretch this out again. Forgive me, this is a little harder to see. Here's my big question. These are four different polls, so I want to tell people at home, this is not apples and apples. So this is not, we have to be careful about this, but these are four polls taken going back to mid-July through just the other day, right? And you see Harris has gone up a little bit. Trump, they're very close, right up here, They're competitive.

What am I looking at here? To see if this continues This is Robert Kennedy over here at six percent by the time you get over here, he's at two percent. Again, they are different polls, different methodology so be careful about this. I'm raising this as a question, not to say data shows this, but if this continues to go down and the other, these are the other third-party candidates, Cornell West, Jill Stein, down just a little bit in the last several weeks. If that trend continues, most people would tell you that is better for Kamala Harris because there's not or at least there's not yet proof that this majority support for Trump or Trumpism in the battleground states, right?

So, if you come back to this map in 2020 and you look at it, what happened, right? Let's come up to 2020 and look at the presidential race here. Boom, Joe Biden gets to 49.4 Trump is at 48, right. In 2016 what happened? The third party candidates took Hillary Clinton down a 47 and Trump wins with 48.

So the third party candidates going down is at least at the moment, if it continues helpful to Harris as we go into this next phase.

BERMAN: John King stick around, I want to bring the panel back with us and I want everyone to shout questions at John or each other as you'd like. I'm going to do a substantive anchor prerogative though here, because you're talking about this tight margins, John. Minnesota, Pennsylvania, last few elections -- Shapiro versus the other elections in the state at the time, how has he done?

KING: So, if you go back and look at governors' races, You'd have to go back a little bit. Let's find a Shapiro race here in Pennsylvania. We had to go back. And I hope it's loaded in here for me, I have to come forward here and you find governor's race. Well, here let me just bring out the state here and come up to '22 and we get to the governor's race and here we go. So here's Josh Shapiro.

You just saw what happened there, right? Again, a weak, people would say Republican opponents, so be careful about this, but watch when I switch to the presidential map. Just watch up in here, so you see the blue here, right? Now, we come back to 2020 and bringing the presidential map, there's more red right here, right?

So, what does Josh Shapiro do? He runs a little bit stronger in these White working class places, in places where Donald Trump does really well, a little bit stronger.

Now, Tim Walz has done and the same thing in Minnesota. This is one of the things your questioning, does that transfer over? That's one of the reasons that Mitt Romney picked Paul Ryan and they lost Wisconsin. So let's be careful about this, right? It doesn't always translate. [20:25:06]

But if you're thinking about going into those smaller communities, going on local television markets, into Pennsylvania or Michigan, or Wisconsin, that's one of the reasons you debate Shapiro and Walz based on their past electoral history.

Have they run in places where Trump has hurt the Democratic Party. For both of them, the answer is yes. Does that translate to a presidential race? Big question mark.

BERMAN: All right, I heard some chuckling there in the background. Bakari, you first.

SELLERS: No, I was just chuckling because -- what happens if both of those candidates only marginally improve your chance or outcomes in both Arizona, Mark Kelly, or Pennsylvania with Josh Shapiro. What happens with Black voters in places like North Carolina and Georgia? Is she trending enough? Are we seeing enough from Black voters to get her to the levels of 2008?

And what do those numbers look like for her to be able to pull off a victory in what has been fool's gold. David Axelrod, Messina, Plouffe, they actually were able to win North Carolina and Florida. Democrats have somewhat of a fool's gold mentality. Is that something we can do?

KING: Well, as you know, a bunch of Obama veterans just went in to the Harris campaign. So, we'll see how they look at the data going forward. And I would say this Bakari, any conversation, you know this, everybody in this conversation knows his, any conversations today are theoretical. Let's watch these conversations after the VP pick, after the Democratic Convention, after people process the Olympics and we come out of labor day.

But you can't wait, especially because she started too late. You can't waste any day between now and then. So here's more of that. North Carolina 2020, Biden was pretty competitive, 50 to 49, right? It's a very competitive state, but you need that extra magic that turnout to do it.

If you go all the way back to 2008, Obama didn't crack 50, he just barely beat John McCain. Look how close that is, but it's doable if you're near perfect in turnout. When you start late -- is the history of Kamala Harris, the first woman of color, does it match up with the first president of color?

Of course, it's not exactly the same, but can they create that kind of excitement? I can tell you, I was on the ground in Pennsylvania last week, Arizona, just the other day at the moment, there's a ton of Democratic excitement. Can you sustain it for 97 days?

BERMAN: Erin, very quickly, you had something?

PERRINE: Yes, when you look at the map right now in states down-ballot and how that will affect the ticket upwards, we are going to see that there was going to be a split between Biden voters and those down ticket. But in states like Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

In the Senate races right now, Republicans are going to already reserve time for airtime, but they are being vastly outspent by Democrats. Do you see that there will be more split ticket or less split ticket voting with Harris at the top? And how much that spending in those down-ballot races might affect the saturation to help Harris maybe bring that whole ticket together.

KING: So, that is a defining question in the sense that just pop up a Pennsylvania. You also have you, Bob Casey running against a strong Republican opponent. We could go out to Ohio, Sherrod Brown running against what most people believe is at least a decent Republican opponent.

The Jon Tester -- he's more trouble in a state Trumps' going to win by 15-16-18-points. There has not been any ticket splitting in the last few years. Susan Collins is the last one in a presidential election to survive in the state of Maine when the state went blue and she won.

The question is, do the rules apply anymore? This is the question I ask myself all the time. This is my tenth presidential campaign. So you say, my experience tells me Sometimes you say my experience tells me nothing because we're in a brand new world.

When Biden was the nominee, all of those Democrats were going to argue for ticket splitting. They weren't going to run campaigns, separate themselves from Joe Biden. Now that Harris is the nominee, they're going to give her a chance, they're going to give her a chance. And if she's competitive, they're going to try to ride with her. If they see that she's not, that's when you'll see those breaks.

BERMAN: Ax, I want to leave one question with you here, the economy.

AXELROD: Yes.

BERMAN: The stock -- the stock market by the way, isn't the economy and lower is reacting to economic news here. How much of a concern is that? How much of a weight could stock market turmoil be?

AXELROD: Well, look, it depends what it leads to. You know, you talk to smart people around the market and they say this was a correction that was long overdue. It's not a prelude to a recession if we were to dip into a recession obviously, that could very well affect the election.

And so, I'm sure that the folks over at the Harris' headquarters are watching this closely, but probably the Fed will pretty quickly lower interest rates and things will stabilize. But, you know, you could see Trump's already out there exploiting it.

BERMAN: Yes, the minute it happened, he was. All right, David Axelrod, Erin Perrine, Bakari Sellers, thank you all. Thank you for making my life so much easier too and thanks to John King, who's sticking around for one minute more.

Can a new face at the top of the ticket re-energize Democrats in battleground Arizona. John, talks with door-to-door canvassers as part of his "All Over The Map" series, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:33:44]

BERMAN: All right, we wanted to get a better sense of how the change at the top of the Democratic ticket is playing out on the ground in the states where this election may be decided. Our John King went back to Arizona as part of his "Series All Over the Map" that tracks the election through the eyes and experiences of voters in battleground states and who are part of critical voting blocs.

John is still with us.

KING: Happy to be here.

BERMAN: What do the voters in Arizona say?

KING: The Democratic energy is real. It's off the charts. So when you hear people in Washington and New York say it exists, I can tell you, yes, it does exist on the ground. The challenge for Harris, though, there are some young voters and some independents who drifted away from President Biden.

And in a place like Arizona, you need them to win. The big challenge is, can she get them back?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): Door to door in the scorching desert heat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's hot out here though. Not much of a shadow in the middle of the day.

KING (voice-over): Looking for votes in a place where everyone matters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just going around talking to voters.

KING (voice-over): This is Pinal County, Arizona. It is rural, Republican, and the pre-canvassing meeting --

JACOB DIALS, RAZE CANVASSING MANAGER: Stay safe, hydrate.

KING (voice-over): -- includes a reminder, a lot of Trump voters aren't happy when a progressive comes calling.

PABLO CORREA, CO-FOUNDER, RAZE: We know it's getting hot out there. We definitely know it's not just the temperature, we just keep it moving. You know, tell him thank you. Have a good day.

KING (voice-over): Pablo Correa and Jacob Dials also walked these streets in 2020 when Joe Biden won Arizona by just 10,000 votes. This year, things were looking rough. But now this handout is a keepsake.

[20:35:09] KING: Ever had a campaign year like this?

CORREA: Ever had a campaign year like this?

DIALS: No.

KING (voice-over): A new version with Kamala Harris is at the print shop.

DIALS: Now we're hearing conversations about, like, oh, I already told my friends, my family, my neighbor to go out and vote, versus, yes, I'm going to go out and vote, probably.

KING (voice-over): The canvassers are more excited. Democratic voters, too.

CORREA: It's palpable. Now there's excitement. And if you can throw excitement on top of duty, there is something closer to home with Harris at the top of the ticket.

DIALS: It's way easier to support a candidate who you can actually see go out and campaign and you like, you have, you know, that energy around you.

KING (voice-over): Melissa Cordero is proof of the new energy. She's much more active, she says, since her phone started humming at late July, Sunday, Biden stepped aside.

MELISSA CORDERO, ARIZONA VOTER: I mean, just red dots all over my phone screen. You know, everybody's like, did you, did you, you know, did you see this?

KING (voice-over): Cordero is an Air Force veteran active in a group called Common Defense. She was loyal to Biden when we first visited four months ago. Excited to work with fellow veterans and other friends to back Harris now.

CORDERO: Not all veterans are for Trump. Not all veterans are MAGA crazy Second Amendment people. There are ones out there that truly believe in democracy and we want things like our reproductive freedom. I think Kamala coming in and has brought this, like, just energy that wasn't there.

KING (voice-over): Sustaining that new energy for three months is one giant Harris challenge. Cordero also hopes for contrasts with Trump on immigration and other pressing issues here.

CORDERO: Jobs, money, rent caps, all the things that, you know, cause a lot of stress.

NICO RIOS, ARIZONA VOTER: There's a lot of art down here.

KING (voice-over): Nico Rios was too young to vote in 2020, but supported Biden. He's 19 now, compares Trumpism to fascism. Eager to vote, but not for Harris.

RIOS: I can't commit to the Democrats. I used to think that they were better. I just don't anymore.

KING (voice-over): Rios sees both Harris and Trump as too harsh on asylum seekers and other migrants. But his biggest issue is the Hamas- Israel conflict. Rios supports a socialist candidate who opposes any aid to Israel.

RIOS: There's nothing that Kamala can do in the next, what, two, three months that can wash that blood from her hands, in my view.

KING (voice-over): Harris can't win battlegrounds like Arizona if she doesn't reverse Biden's slide with Latinos and with young voters. Rios does see some shift, but doubts Harris can do enough.

RIOS: I've certainly had friends ask me or had conversations about, you know, what's Kamala's deal? Is she better? Is she this? Is she that? And so those conversations are certainly happening. I just don't know if they're happening in the numbers that the Democratic Party was hoping for.

KING (voice-over): Tucson is Pima County, reliably blue, but independents like Ray Flores help settle competitive races. He remains just where he was when we first met in March. Planning to vote third party.

RAY FLORES, ARIZONA VOTER: Lose the Libertarian Party right now.

KING (voice-over): Flores sees both major parties as too focused on power and personalities, as engines of division, not solutions.

FLORES: It's not, hey, let's win. It's humiliation, it's destruction. I kind of feel glad that the Olympics is going on right now. I like when I see our country shaking hands and hugging other countries, and I wish that politics had the same respect for the competition that sports does.

KING (voice-over): El Charro Steak is one of a dozen restaurants Flores owns. He was in Europe on a month-long family vacation when Trump was shot at and when Biden stepped aside.

FLORES: I think our brand is important and it was being laughed at. I didn't like that. We were the butt of the joke.

KING (voice-over): Back now to catch up on business and a changed presidential race.

FLORES: I do look forward to seeing some sort of debate between them. I think that would be more than good television. I think it would be eye opening to see how they respond to each other. This is a whole new game, right? So this is a fresh new -- and I think we should all kind of peel back and look at this in a fresh new way.

KING (voice-over): A race with more fire and more energy now. A new option, perhaps enough to warrant another look at the menu.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BERMAN: More fire, literally. Arizona, obviously not just a swing state, John. It's also a border state. How big of an issue is immigration there right now?

KING: It's a big issue, John, but it's a complicated issue. Look where that piece ended. Pima County, down here where Tucson is. Blue in the last presidential election. That's right along the border. Two of the four border counties in Arizona are blue.

Maricopa, the largest population county, is blue. So, it's not automatically an issue that hurts the Democrats, if you will. Come forward to 2020. Mark Kelly wins the Senate race against Blake Masters. That was a Trump immigration message from Blake Masters.

Look at the governor's race. Close, right? But Katie Hobbs wins the governor's race over Kari Lake. Very close race, but again, it's much more complicated. When you go to these border states, yes, most, even Democrats say, stronger border control, more agents, stop illegals from crossing the border.

However, they're much more nuanced and they don't like, a lot of them don't like anyway. Donald Trump's harsh language about immigrants because guess what, a lot of immigrants live here and a lot of families from here have relatives just south of that border.

[20:40:04]

BERMAN: John King, it's been so great having you on going over all this and everything else tonight. Really appreciate it.

KING: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. Coming up, more on the expected vice presidential announcement. The congresswoman who co-chair this election that picked Kamala Harris as President Biden's running mate, she will join us.

Plus, the repeated attacks by the former president and his allies on the biracial heritage of Kamala Harris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So, former President Trump today once again attacked the ABC News correspondent who questioned him last week during a confrontational interview at a gathering of black journalists. Rachel Scott kicked off the interview at the National Association of Black Journalists with a question about why black voters should support him after the language and false attacks he has long used against journalists and politicians of color.

This is what Trump said about the appearance during an interview today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:45:03] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did it because I thought it was a good thing to do, and they had a journalist, I don't know. I didn't know who she was, but she was nasty. She was a terrible person. You know, she's with ABC fake news, which is one of the worst. ABC is one of the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

TRUMP: And she is horrible. So she was very nasty. And frankly, if I owned that network, I would fire her so fast, it was so inappropriate. And I actually --

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The attack on an excellent black female journalist comes a day after a top Trump ally, Congressman Byron Donalds, went on national TV and defended the former president's unfounded birtherism like attacks on Vice President Harris and her biracial heritage. These comments occurred at the same conference of black journalists.

The former president said Harris, quote, "happened to turn black" and that it was, quote, "all of a sudden George Stephanopoulos from ABC would have none of it."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: She has a Jamaican father and Indian mother. She's always identified as both. Why are you questioning that?

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R), FLORIDA: Well, George, first of all, this is something that's actually a conversation throughout social media right now. There were a lot of people who are trying to figure this out. But, again, that's a side issue, not the main issue. The main issue --

STEPHANOPOULOS: Sir, one second. You just did it. You just did it again --

DONALDS: -- Kamala Harris is Vice President of the United States.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Why do you insist on questioning her racial identity?

DONALDS: You want to talk or you want me to talk?

STEPHANOPOULOS: I want you to answer my question.

DONALDS: George, George, now that you're done yelling at me, let me answer. He talked about it on the stage yesterday in Atlanta for what, two minutes?

STEPHANOPOULOS: So questioning somebody's racial identity for a couple minutes is OK?

DONALDS: George, I'm going to tell you again, he brought it up. AP is the one that wrote the headline when she first came in to the United States Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I'm joined now by Congresswoman Lisa Blunt Rochester, a candidate for U.S. Senate and co-chair of the Harris campaign. She was also co-chair of both the Biden-Harris campaign four years ago, as well as the VP Selection Committee.

Congresswoman, I do want to ask you about Trump and Byron Donalds attacks here in just a moment. But, first, I want to tap into your experience vetting vice presidential selections. You were in the room where it happens. So what is happening tonight at quarter of 9:00 p.m. at the vice president's residence?

REP. LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER (D-DE): Well, first of all, John, let me say how exciting it is to be on the potential eve of an exciting announcement. And, you know, as you mentioned, I had the opportunity and the great privilege of serving as one of the four members of the VP Selection Committee.

And for Joe Biden, he was very clear. He wanted someone who was qualified. He wanted someone who would be ready on day one. And Kamala Harris fit that bill. She was ready on day one then and she's even more ready today.

And he also wanted someone -- the word he used besides the vetting and making sure the background checks and that the person had the great qualifications -- h wanted someone who was, in his words, simpatico with him. And basically that's somebody that, you know, they worked well together.

At the end of the day, when the lights are about to go off and they're leaving the White House, this is the last person in the room that he talks to and gets advice and back and forth. And so, Kamala Harris fit that bill. And I know that she is looking for someone who will do the same thing that will be simpatico with her, and only she can make that determination, but who also will be a strong advocate for the American people.

So we're excited because all of the candidates are well suited, well qualified, and for Democrats we're in a very good position. Very good position.

BERMAN: So you can't govern if you don't win, and it's hard to win without Pennsylvania. So, do you think that gives an edge to Governor Shapiro just down the street from you?

ROCHESTER: Well, it's funny because I was waiting for the question if I wanted to break some news. And the breaking news is that Kamala Harris makes great decisions. I think, you know, it's important, even when we're looking at these candidates, you are thinking about who is going to be great in campaign and help you to win. But you're also thinking about who can govern because that's the most important piece of this is, who can govern.

And so I know that she's going to be looking at both who is going to be great on the campaign trail, but also again that person who could be ready on day one. It's unfortunate that, you know, President Trump couldn't even say that his own vice presidential pick would be ready on day one because he didn't think the vice president is important.

We happen to believe it is an important first decision, one of the first biggest decisions that you will make as a candidate, and it shows who you are as a president.

BERMAN: We'll have to get together and talk about what really qualifies as breaking news, but we'll leave that aside here for just a moment, Congresswoman. Look, these attacks that President Trump seems to keep making on the biracial heritage of the Vice President and his campaign and campaign surrogates seem to be making. What does it tell you about him and them?

[20:50:16]

ROCHESTER: You know, first of all, what I recall from the question was, why should black people trust you? And, basically, he gave us more reasons to not trust him. You know, I thought about this. Someone said to me, Lisa, why weren't you so horrified, upset? And maybe because I wasn't surprised.

You know, you could either look at it as political, that this is birther 2.0, and this is what you do when you're trying to distract because you don't have good -- a good track record, and you don't have good policies for the future because you're thinking of Project 2025, and gutting social security and Medicare and, you know, taking away a woman's right to have bodily autonomy, or maybe it's personal, it's really who he is.

And either of those events, it makes clear to the American people why he should not be on the ticket or back in the White House. And as Jim Clyburn, my good friend said, this race is not just the most important. It is the most consequential. The decision of who we put into the White House will have consequences for the next, not just decades, but possibly generations for our climate, for jobs, for all of it.

And so, we're telling people, especially now we got Democrats for Kamala Harris. We got white dudes for Kamala Harris. We got Republicans for Kamala Harris. We're telling everybody we got to do our part. We're moving from worrying about all of this to work. We got to work so that we can win. That's our goal.

BERMAN: Congresswoman Lisa Blunt Rochester from Delaware, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate your time.

ROCHESTER: Thank you.

BERMAN: Next, a new advisory just released on Tropical Storm Debby and what it looks like on the flooded ground as parts of the south brace for what authorities warned could be catastrophic rainfall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:12]

BERMAN: All right, more breaking news tonight. A slow moving tropical storm, Debby, is bringing torrential rain to parts of the southeast tonight. The National Weather Service is warning and they're just released 8:00 p.m. Eastern advisory of, quote, "potentially historic rainfall" and, quote, "catastrophic flooding" for parts of Georgia and the Carolinas in the days ahead.

Forecasters say up to 30 inches of rain could fall in some areas. That's 2.5 feet. This is what Debby left behind in western Florida after coming ashore as a hurricane. At least four deaths are reported there, one in Georgia in connection with the storm.

CNN's Isabel Rosales has more on the damage done by Debby and the ongoing threat it still poses.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pounding rain, whipping winds, powerful current.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The water hasn't quite made it up to the (INAUDIBLE).

ROSALES (voice-over): Tropical Storm Debby no longer a hurricane after making landfall this morning as a Category 1 storm. The Big Bend of Florida seeing first impact.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: We have seen significant storm surge. We have seen inundation. We have seen and will continue to see flooding in very parts of the state of Florida.

ROSALES (voice-over): But Debby is still bringing life-threatening storm surges and rain as it crawls inland. More than a month's worth of rain has already fallen in Florida, triggering at least 10 flash flood warnings. Hundreds of Sarasota residents were transported from flooded homes by water rescue teams.

DESANTIS: There's going to be a lot of water that's going to be dumped throughout the state, and we're going to see effects of that, not just today, but in the ensuing days.

ROSALES (voice-over): Though rain will likely be Debby's biggest danger, strong winds and potential tornadoes will continue to be a threat. Four storm related deaths now confirmed in Florida, a teen crushed by a tree that fell on his mobile home and multiple driving fatalities, including a tractor trailer driver who lost control in a wet roadway near Tampa, plunging off a bridge and into a canal.

The second death blamed on Debby's severe weather conditions. The storm did wash up one rather unusual find, 1 million worth of cocaine near the Florida Keys, according to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a once in a thousand year potential rainfall event. ROSALES (voice-over): Debbie is slowing down in speed and officials are expressing concern over the amount of rain forecast as it continues into Georgia and South Carolina.

In Savannah, emergency crews are already receiving their first call for a water rescue.

WILLIAM HANDY, DEPUTY CHIEF, SAVANNAH FIRE DEPARTMENT: You just saw one of our marine units, our water rescue teams, roll out to a vehicle stalled with people trapped in the vehicle.

ROSALES (voice-over): After preparing for the impact of 20 inches of rain in just two to three days.

HANDY: There's been a lot of behind the scenes prep work. Working with the city as a whole with them clearing out the obstructions of drains, working with the city to make sure we have sand for the residents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We flood so easily here.

ROSALES (voice-over): Residents in Savannah heating the warnings and bracing for unprecedented flooding. Multiple sandbag stations ran out of supplies Sunday night and resupplied by the county.

ADRIAN HILL, HOMEOWNER: The storm sitting on top of us for 24 to 48 hours. And I know that's just going to be a lot of precipitation, a lot of rain coming down. It's just going to be -- it's going to be unheard of, really.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: And Isabel Rosales joins us now. Isabel, so much rain. What can we expect in Savannah in the next couple of hours?

ROSALES (on-camera): Hey, John. So the concerns are for potential tornadoes, historic rainfall and coastal flooding. So if forecasts verify when it comes to all of that expected rainfall, that water has to come from the West here into the Savannah waterway.

So the big question here is, can the river have and handle the capacity for all of that water to get out? If not, that's a big issue. That is when you get serious flooding. And that is what has officials here so concerned to the fact that they've instituted a curfew that is set to take into place here in just under an hour.

Officials warning residents here to prepare for flooding they have not ever seen in their lifetime. I spoke, John, to the mayor here of Savannah. He says that he will not sleep while Debby is knocking here. And the moral of the story is that this is not a sprint. This is a marathon. Debby crawling just 6 miles per hour.

BERMAN: Isabel Rosales, stay safe there in Savannah. Thank you so much.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.