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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
News Conference At Apalachee High School Shooting In Georgia; Father Of Alleged Georgia School Shooter Arrested; Two Students, Two Teachers Killed In GA School Shooting; Economy Center Stage In Presidential Race As Trump Unveils New Proposals Ahead Of Debate With Harris; Police Pressured Him To Confess To A Murder That Never Happened. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired September 05, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Ukrainians we spoke to left asking why? To just terrify them or is it simply sport for the Russians.
PETRO YATSENKO, UKRAINIAN COORDINATION CENTER FOR THE TREATMENT OF POWs: The main reason is to made Russian soldiers believe they -- it's very dangerous to surrender Ukrainian forces because Ukrainian soldiers will kill them like Russians killing Ukrainian prisoners of war.
This force on them not to surrender, but go forward to their death.
WALSH (voice over): A horror, not always publicized or fully accounted for, yet being felt steadily by Ukrainians as they struggle to hold the Eastern line.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN.
(VIDEO TAPE ENDS)
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: That was horrific to watch. Well, thank you for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:48 ]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening.
We start with breaking news. A dramatic development in yesterdays mass shooting at Apalachee High School in Georgia.
We are waiting a news conference by authorities that is to take place any minute. We have just learned the father of the 14-year-old suspect in that shooting has now been arrested in connection with the shooting.
You can see authorities are gathering. We'll bring you that press conference as it begins, let's listen in.
CHRIS HOSEY, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION DIRECTOR: We wanted to come back and update you on the progress of the case this evening, appreciate you being here. In coordination with District Attorney Brad Smith, the GBI has arrested Colin Gray, age 54, in connection to the shooting here at Apalachee High School.
Colin is Colt Gray's father that was arrested yesterday. He is charged with the following: Four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree murder, and eight counts of cruelty to children.
Mr. Gray, these charges stem from Mr. Gray knowingly allowing his son, Colt, to possess a weapon. This is a very difficult time, as we know for students and parents and so many I know of students and parents here in this county and around this state are afraid.
You all have likely seen reports of incidents of other students making threats today at various schools around our state. In each of these incidents, police and law enforcement took charges, they made arrests, acted very swiftly as we take incidents like this very seriously across this state.
This is a time for all of us as a community and a state to come together and remain vigilant. Students must be supported and encouraged here in this community across the state to contact a member of their school faculty with any and all concerns of suspicious activity that they may see.
Local, state, and federal law enforcement will continue to work together around the clock in relation to this incident here and any other incidents that come up around this state that raise concern to the safety of our students, faculty,, and citizens here in the state of Georgia.
Additionally, Colt Gray that was arrested yesterday for this incident has now been charged with four counts of felony murder and again, we will continue to work tirelessly to finish -- complete this investigation as we move forward.
I will go ahead and mention to you, and as I say, sometimes I'm going ahead and apologize to you because as you all know that this is a murder investigation. It is a very serious investigation, one that we take serious, one that we will continue to diligently work on and be very thorough with it, with the GBI and our local partners here.
So, you'll have to forgive us if we don't answer a lot of the questions that you ask. I know you have many and we wish we could answer many of them for you, but we still obviously want to maintain the integrity of this investigation because it has a long way to go for it to be finished.
Again, I also want to remind everyone that we need to continue to pray and support the victims that were involved here. The school teachers, the faculty, the students, obviously, those that lost their lives, their families and those that were injured.
So, I'd like to call on the sheriff to come and give you a brief update on the status of those that were injured from yesterday's event. Thank you.
JUD SMITH, SHERIFF BARROW COUNTY, GEORGIA: Thank you, Director Hosey. As Director Hosey said, I'd like to say that obviously we're lifting up those families, our hearts are hurting for them, our kids our students, our teachers, but the nine injured, I am very happy to say will make a full recovery and that's a testament to the response that we had in my opinion, the response that medical staff happened -- that responded with, in my opinion and we're very happy to say that they will make a full recovery after that response.
[20:05:17]
Again, please lift up our community, please keep these children, these teachers, we call them teachers, but I call them heroes. We met with them today, emotions are very high, obviously, but we told them that we love them, we love our teachers and what they do and were very happy at the fact that they stood in the gap between evil to protect their children and we want to include them and to say the lives that were saved as well yesterday.
But I wanted to report to you that all nine people that are injured will expect to make a full recovery.
Thank you.
REPORTER: Are they still in the hospital?
SMITH: Several of them are still in the hospital, some have been released.
REPORTER: Director, can you please explain, did the father actually give the gun to the suspect?
HOSEY: Well, I'm going to leave it as that, while I mentioned it in the release that he knowingly allowed him to possess the weapon.
REPORTER: Director, can you tell us about how the arrest happened today. Did he turn himself in? Did you guys made contact with them. How did that go with investigators this afternoon with that arrest?
HOSEY: I'm honestly not familiar with the details. All I can tell you is that he is in custody at this time.
REPORTER: Do you believe that anyone else would be arrested in this case or is that --
HOSEY: It's difficult to say at this point in time, we're obviously still investigating this, following all leads, all evidence and we'll see where it takes us as we progress forward.
REPORTER: Do you believe that the arrest should have been made sooner?
HOSEY: The arrest was made when we had the probable cause to make the arrest.
REPORTER: Do we know when his first court appearance will be?
HOSEY: I'm not sure. No. REPORTER: Did the dad bring him to school?
HOSEY: I'm not sure about that either. I'm sorry.
REPORTER: Are you able to explain the charges and how he has more charges than the suspect of the shooting?
HOSEY: Not in great detail. The biggest thing as I mentioned earlier is that he is in custody at this point in time. His charges or directly connected with the actions of his son and allowing him to possess a weapon.
REPORTER: Sheriff, will he be housed in your facility? Is that where he will be held? How is that --
SMITH: He'll be held in the Barrow County Detention Center?
REPORTER: Will his mugshot be available tonight or will it take some time before them all to get a mugshot?
SMITH: That depends on how long it takes us to book him. But if it's available, we can get that to you all tonight, if not tomorrow.
REPORTER: Sheriff, you said some good news that some have been released, do you know the numbers of patients that's been released victims?
SMITH: I don't want to speak to that because I don't know the exact number, but I know that -- I want to just report that all nine would make a full recovery and be able to leave the hospital.
REPORTER: Sheriff, there were nine people that were injured, do we know if they are a mix of students and teachers or staff or are they just students?
SMITH: I believe one -- two were adult teachers and the rest which would be seven would be students.
REPORTER: Director, can you explain whether there's precedent for charges like this?
HOSEY: I'm sorry.
REPORTER: Can you explain whether there's precedent in the state of Georgia as far as the GBI is concerned for the father or a parent to be charged for the crime --
HOSEY: I don't have any details on any history of it, but I would venture to say it's not something new.
REPORTER: Can you tell us about the evidence that led to these charges?
HOSEY: No, ma'am, that's part of the ongoing investigation. I apologize. REPORTER: Sheriff, after all this time with him being able to talk with investigators, you were pretty strong yesterday when saying this was an evil act, it's very sad obviously but, looking back at what to the 14-year-old has been able to say to investigators over the last 24 hours, can you reflect on just what this community is facing now after what he allegedly did at the school?
SMITH: Well, we're facing heartbreak, we're heartbroken. A young person brought a gun into a school, committed an evil act and he took lives and he injured many other people, not only physically but mentally.
But I'm proud of Barrow County. I'm proud of our superintendent. I'm proud of these teachers. I'm proud of these schools. And I'm proud of where I live and we'll get past this.
You see behind me, up here on the hill we've got a vigil going on at our flagpole. I welcome you to go see those kids and those young people that are hurting.
REPORTER: Director, can you please explain whether you're still expecting more charges?
HOSEY: I think I answered that earlier. Our investigation is still ongoing, so we'll see where things go with our investigation and I'll leave it that.
OFFICER: Thank you so much, that's all we have for tonight. Continue to follow the GBI on X. Please monitor our website.
We do not anticipate another update, but as you can see, it is fluid. Things are developing. Again, we appreciate your patience and your support and your continued prayers for the victims. Thank you.
[20:10:06]
COOPER: So you were hearing from authorities there, limited in what they will say, but the father of the shooting suspect has, like his son now today, been charged four counts involuntary manslaughter, four second degree murder, as well as charges related to cruelty to children.
I'm joined by Isabel Rosales who's been covering the story in Georgia, former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin is with us, and John Miller, our chief law enforcement intelligence analyst, also, Dave Cullen, who authored a definitive book of one of the most infamous mass school shootings in US History, "Columbine".
John, first of all, what are you learning?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, we began to learn and this is based on reporting by Ryan Young down at the scene and Mark Morales here in New York, that this gun, an AR-15 platform, was something that the father, who was just charged, Colin, gave to his son as a Christmas gift in December of 2023. Now, that has extraordinary significance on a number of levels. Number one, it is just several months after we learned that the Jackson County sheriff went to the house, interviewed the father and the son about the FBI reports that he had made an online threat on a Discord --
COOPER: All right, the son allegedly had a Discord account in which he made online threats --
MILLER: -- to do a school shooting.
COOPER: The local authorities contacted by the FBI interviewed both the son and the father --
MILLER: That's right.
COOPER: -- who denied any such threats.
MILLER: Right. Colin said, that wasn't me on the computer, the son said I would have never done that. But it did come from an account that the provider said belonged at that location and to those people.
COOPER: Discord, by the way, they said they removed that account in May of 2023.
MILLER: Exactly. But that posting showed rifles of --
COOPER: Then talked about shooting up the school the following day.
MILLER: And pictures, so, you really have to kind of -- when you look at a case like this, which is going to be about negligence and indifference to the probability of what could happen. Factor that in that that occurred before he gave them this gun as a gift.
The other thing we can say in context is at the time he gave it to him, they were -- Colin and his wife were in the middle of a very contentious divorce and child custody case with allegations and counter allegations and arrests and --
COOPER: The wife had accused -- this alleged shooter's mother had accused the alleged shooter's father, her husband, of abuse -- verbal and a hostile environment.
MILLER: And then in the course of that, she was also arrested in a car where she was charged with possession of methamphetamine and other drugs.
So, what you're seeing is an environment that might not be the ideal environment for a 13-year-old or a 14-year-old to possess basically an assault weapon.
Now, the father's argument was he doesn't have unfettered access to it. But if you listen closely to the interview with the sheriff at the time in Jackson County, they were talking about, well, he has access to it, but not when its loaded. And when we use it, we use it together. I just took him on his hunting in trip and so on. But it clearly is a factor here that he did have access to it and the ammunition because we know what allegedly happened.
COOPER: There's reporting also that as part of an eviction proceeding that had occurred, that authorities had actually remove guns from the home --
MILLER: --and then returned.
COOPER: -- from the father and then ultimately returned them again. This interview with police took place in May. It was -- now according to Ryan Young and others reporting in December around Christmas, that the father after having been interviewed by police, went and got an AR-15 style weapon for his son.
Jeff, I mean, this is rare, although not unheard of.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Second time in American history apparently that a parent has been charged in connection with a mass shooting by a minor.
I think people may remember in Michigan, just in April, the Crumbley family, it was again, a shooting where a minor shot and killed four people and in an unprecedented case at that point, the parents, Jennifer and James Crumbley were charged with involuntary manslaughter. The same initial counts as in this case.
The facts of that case involved, was there recklessness? Was there foreseeability? There was an issue in that case of not getting mental health assistance to the boy, which the school had recommended.
Obviously, John is talking about the evidence we know. The key issue in the case against the father here will be the recklessness, foreseeability, how he handled the gun in relation to his son.
What's different from the Michigan case and certainly John dealt to me when I heard the charges here in Georgia. Is that it's not just involuntary manslaughter, which suggests just recklessness. The father in this case is also charged with second-degree murder, which suggests a much higher level of intentionality which prosecutors will have to prove --
[20:15:32]
COOPER: Would that imply knowledge of a possible attack?
TOOBIN: It could, but even knowledge, I think it would be hard to make it rise to second-degree murder. Second-degree murder, in almost every case that I'm aware of involves knowing an intentional -- it is intentional murder.
And that obviously, we're just getting the evidence in this case, but that's a much higher road, much more difficult charge to prove than involuntary manslaughter, which is really just about recklessness, carelessness, which certainly based on the facts that John are laying out, that seems like a very makeable case against his father. But second-degree murder, very different.
Isabel, I mean, you've been reporting now on this all day. This news just broke, just a minutes before we went on air. What are you hearing about reaction to it? What have you been hearing throughout the day?
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and I spoke to Sheriff Jud Smith earlier today and he had told me that any option was possibly on the table, including charging Colt Gray's father in connection to this deadly shooting.
One of the big questions I had after that interview with the sheriff is just how much Colt Gray is talking. The sheriff told me that he was read his Miranda Rights and that he just kept talking and talking, even saying I did it.
The sheriff told me that Colt Gray did not deny carrying out that shooting. And of course, we have that stunning reporting from Mark Morales and Ryan Young that the Jackson County Sheriff's Office spoke to the father.
CNN obtained that audio of that investigation. The father saying, no, my son did not have unsupervised access to these guns? Yes. We like to hunt, the son denying, no, I would never write something like this. Not even joke about it.
But then we have here around Christmas time, around the holidays, six or seven months later the father buying him, according to our law enforcement sources, buying him the same gun that was used to carry out this heinous attack.
COOPER: Let me --
ROSALES: So, the question becomes --
COOPER: Sorry, let me just -- that audio that you mentioned, we have that from that police interview. I just want to play that.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
INVESTIGATOR: Do you have weapons in the house?
COLIN GRAY, FATHER OR COLT GRAY: I do.
INVESTIGATOR: Are they accessible to him?
COLIN GRAY: They are. I mean, there's nothing -- nothing loaded. But they are. We actually do a lot of shooting. We do a lot of deer hunting. He shot his first deer this year. You know, so, like I'm pretty much in shock to be honest with you. I'm a little pissed off to be even really honest with you if that is what I said.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
COOPER: So that is so -- sorry -- go ahead.
ROSALES: Yes, so sorry, Anderson, the question becomes, how does a 14- year-old get access to these guns and carry out this attack?
Colin Gray was the adult in the household. You have deputies knocking on your door, talking with you about these very serious accusations, multiple tips saying that your son may be involved with sending out these threats.
We have new reporting too about that incident report from 2023, that Discord account that John Miller was mentioning, that the FBI linked to Colt Gray, where he referenced the -- whoever wrote the post, referenced plans for future mass shooting, writing, "I'm committing a mass shooting and I'm waiting a good two to three years. I'm ready."
Posting images of the gun, expressing desires to target an elementary school, expressing frustrations with the acceptance of transgender people.
So, how is it that these accusations, these threats are brought to your attention and then later on you end up purchasing a gun for your son?
So, the question becomes, what was the inaction that was taking in terms of locking away guns or the action taken by this father in terms of buying him a gun that could have possibly led to this shooting. They're going to have to prove that in court.
COOPER: Dave Cullen, your book "Columbine" really opened my eyes to so much about mass shootings in America. It's a definitive study of what happened to Columbine, which we hear that this alleged killer, this young man looked at other school shootings.
[20:20:07]
And that is a common thing we hear in all of these school shootings that oftentimes they go online, they look up and they even look back to "Columbine" in a sort of idealizing way, looking at the two killers at "Columbine".
I'm wondering what your -- first of all your reaction is now to the arrest of the father.
DAVE CULLEN, AUTHOR, "PARKLAND": Well, a couple of things. I'll come back to the arrest.
Yes, I researched this for the 25th Anniversary, we did in for a new preface and I believe they were -- there are 82 documented cases that we know of, that the shooters directly said in the writings or anyways that they were inspired by Columbine or used it as a model.
But much more than that, I think five or six of the shooters, it went five generations deep. So, they studied the -- county shooting whose killers studied, I think Northern Illinois, who studied Virginia Tech and Columbine.
There's this, you know, we have it in the book. This is incredible web and there's actually an "Atlantic" piece you can link to. This incredible web, where all roads are leading back to Columbine and they're almost studying these kids.
And either they've learned because the people -- well, first of all, they've learned that bombs usually don't work. So they stopped that and just gone ahead for shooting and maximizing that.
Yes, but it's horrible and they're reenacting this myth of Eric and Dylan as heroic figures who stood up from the nobodies everywhere against bullies and the whole thing is -- there's huge -- tens of thousands of kids online in this community doing this. And you know --
COOPER: Yes, John we talked -- have you -- do you think this is going to be something that we hear more of parents being arrested?
MILLER: I think it is. I mean, you're watching states create laws, not all states, about requiring the securing of firearms. The school, even on its website, the school district that was attacked said we get threats, we get unverified threats. But the biggest threat to human life is unsecured guns in the home.
And this is from the perspective of Georgia, where it's not unusual to have guns or rifles in the home, where people go hunting where it's for sports. And they said, you know, these, need to be secured.
If you look at the history, we were just talking about in Newtown, Connecticut, you know, he got the gun that he wasn't supposed to have access to and killed his mom. She was his first victim before he did the massacre at the school.
Remember the story in Virginia of the first-grader who showed up to school and shot his teacher with a gun that was not secured, that mother was charged in that case. In the Fort Lauderdale case, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas School, you know, that shooter got the gun from home where he was with his dad.
So, this is a recurring theme that you have guns and you have kids, they have to be secured. It sounds obvious, but I think parents in these cases are going to be looking at their own liability.
COOPER: I mean, it is kind of incomprehensible to me that a father or a responsible -- any responsible father would have the police show up at his home talking about his son doing this. It seems like there's some evidence that his son was on this Discord thing and then months later go out and get an AR-15.
TOOBIN: Well, and I think that's one reason why he's being charged here.
It's also worth mentioning, I mean, at this point, we almost take it for granted. Assault weapons don't have to be legal. Assault weapons like this were illegal in this country from 1994 to 2004. Bill Clinton signed the assault weapons ban, but it only lasted for 10 years.
There have been many efforts to make assault weapons illegal, which would limit this problem considerably about kids having access to them. But we live in a country where the Second Amendment is very much in ascendancy and limiting access to any kind of weapon is very difficult.
COOPER: Yes. Thank you, everybody.
In a moment more on this talk. The prosecutor will first charge parents in a mass school shooting, Karen McDonald, and later my conversation with a childhood friend and a fellow coach of the high school coach who was murdered yesterday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:29:19]
COOPER: The breaking news that were following right now, the father of the accused Georgia school shooter has been arrested and is facing several charges, including four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with yesterday's shooting at Apalachee High School.
Just moments ago at a press conference, the director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said the father knowingly allowed his words, his son to have a weapon.
Joining me now, Karen McDonald, the Oakland County, Michigan prosecutor who pursued homicide charges against the parents of a school shooter who killed four students at Oxford High School in 2021.
Miss McDonald, thank you for being here. I'm sorry, its under these circumstances. First of all, your reaction action to these charges against the father of the alleged shooter.
We should note that they stem from him knowingly allowing in terms of, according to prosecutors, his son, to have a weapon.
KAREN MCDONALD, MICHIGAN PROSECUTOR, OAKLAND COUNTY: You know, it's unclear exactly what the facts are. I don't know any more than you do.
But my reaction is rage. Because, you know, the prosecution of the Crumbleys was never ever meant to be a floodgate of charges against parents because it was such an egregious set of facts.
[20:30:34]
And so I -- I'm -- I think I share the emotions of the entire country that even after that well publicized case, we're still here. So it's enraging that somebody that this could still happen when it's so easily preventable, so easily preventable. I just don't understand that.
COOPER: It is -- I mean, you're -- you know, the -- anybody who's a parent, I think, would find it hard to believe that a parent would make the choice to give their child a weapon for Christmas after law enforcement has already been at the house questioning you and your son about threats that were made likely by your own son. In the case that you prosecuted, you talked about how egregious it was. When you first got that case, was it clear to you from the get go that this would be something that should be brought and that charges should be brought?
MCDONALD: It was clear to me from the instant I discovered and -- well, and asked the question like every other parent is asking, where did he get that gun? And those answers led to an Instagram post bragging about the present. And so many more details, the visit to the school of concern that -- I mean, all of it. We don't need to go over it again.
But it was -- I -- it really just came from a place of -- this flies in the face of what we know is right and wrong. You shouldn't walk away from that after four children were killed and several others injured and hundreds terrorized and say, well, it's just not a crime. It is a crime. And two juries agreed with us on that.
Didn't really think about what precedent it was setting and candidly, Anderson, I really -- I'm just as shocked if nothing else. You would have hoped, I would have hoped, that at least the highly publicized details of this case would at least deter parents and make them think twice. And actually I think it did. I really -- I do believe that's happened.
You know, these are allegations. We don't know the facts. I -- as a fellow prosecutor, I don't want to engage in --
COOPER: Sure. I understand/.
MCDONALD: -- and opining about the right and wrong of the charge because we don't know the evidence and these are allegations. But on the face of it, what we do know it's just -- you know, I have all these parents and people that have just reached out to me, continuing to reach out to me as I'm sitting here and just experiencing such trauma and sadness that this is happening and it's so -- it seems to be so similar to our case and, yes, it's hard.
COOPER: Well, I know you believe that it has been and certainly hope that it will continue to be the prosecution that you did. A, you know, a wake up for parents out there, this case obviously should be the same regardless, I mean, whatever happens with these charges in particular, but again time and time again, we've thought there'd be wake up calls and there haven't been.
But Karen McDougal -- McDonald -- I'm sorry, go ahead.
MCDONALD: There's something we can do, Anderson. There's something we can do. This is, you know, I started a foundation called allofus.org and we can prevent gun violence. But it's not just one thing. And access to weapons, obviously, you know, it would have taken -- it's 10 -- as I demonstrated in the closing argument in Crumbley, it takes us in 10 seconds to install a cable lock.
But there's a lot we can do to prevent gun violence, and we have to just stop waiting for another tragedy and then argue about access to guns. We really have to approach it like, what it is, which is a public health crisis. And I just want to lastly say on behalf of -- I know these parents and teachers and students that are reaching out to me, our hearts are with these victims and all the kids in that school.
We are here to help. We are here to support. And it's tragic.
COOPER: Yes. Karen McDonald, thank you very much.
[20:35:01]
As we're learning more about the investigations yesterday, shooting the communities, remembering those who were killed, we want to take a moment to talk about them tonight. We remember 14-year-old student, Mason Schermerhorn, also a 14-year-old student, Christian Angula -- Angulo, whose family described him as a very good kid, very sweet and so caring.
Christina Irimie, is known to be very active in the local Romanian community. One of her students remembering her as a real nice teacher, who liked to tell corny jokes. And math teacher and football coach Richard Aspinwall, whose students have described him as a really sweet and a good guy.
Earlier, I spoke to Matt Tanner, one of Richard's close friends, who said they were like brothers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Matt, first of all, I'm so sorry that we're talking under these circumstances and I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. First of all, how are you? How is everyone holding up?
MATT TANNER, FRIEND OF COACH RICHARD ASPINWALL: Yes, it's tough as you can imagine. But we've -- we're very blessed with a group of friends that we have. And we've been surrounded by those folks and we've tried to be there for his family as well. So it's made it a little bit more manageable.
COOPER: Can you just talk a little bit about Coach Aspinwall? What he was like? I understand you've known him for a long time.
TANNER: Yes, we met way back in middle school. We --
COOPER: Wait, when you were kids in middle school?
TANNER: First time we met -- oh, yes. Oh, yes.
COOPER: Wow.
TANNER: We've -- he's like a brother to me. We met after football practice one day. I was a year older than he was and we were both outside by ourselves. Everybody else had gone from practice, you know, back before cell phones and supervision rules and we're just sitting there. So that's how we met.
My dad showed up finally and I asked him if he wanted a ride. He said, sure. And all these years later, you know, been best friends.
COOPER: You were best man -- you were each other's best man in your weddings. Is that right?
TANNER: That's right. Yes, we were --
COOPER: Wow. I mean, that's incredible to have known him since middle school. What was he like?
TANNER: He always had a smile on his face. He had a laugh that was contagious. I can remember one time in school over the announcements. It was either announcements or the morning news, Remember "News For You." I think that's what it was called way back then.
And that somebody looped a video of him laughing when he was in probably seventh grade or so. So if you ask anybody that knows him about his life, it was contagious, it was full of life, and it was just awesome.
COOPER: He has two young daughters. I read that he loved being a girl dad. It sounds like --
TANNER: Yes.
COOPER: -- he was a tremendous father.
TANNER: Yes, he -- man, he loved those girls. He would do anything for them. Family was really big for him, really big to him. And you know that, you know, most folks always want to find a way to be -- to leave it better than you found it and do better than was done for you. And he really took that to heart.
And, you know, he'd played with the Barbies, he'd do the hair, he'd sip the teacups. He, you know, he was in the floor. He was very, very involved, very present father, you know. You know, he was a superhero to those girls.
COOPER: Was he the same guy that you knew middle school and was he the same little kind of inside the same kid he was in middle school?
TANNER: Absolutely. I think that's one reason why we got along so well is because, you know, we're kids at heart. We always have been and, you know, he didn't change. He's the same. He was the same then. He brought people together just his personality and who he is. Our friend group today has been together about 20 years and they all came through him pretty much.
COOPER: And you helped him get his first coaching job, is that right?
TANNER: I did. When I graduated and took my first job, he was working at a store in town and I just asked him, I said, hey man, I think I can get you on with us. You know, as a community coach, and if it's something you want to do, maybe we can find a way to make it a career. And he was like, sure, why not? So we moved from South Georgia to North Georgia and that's where it all started.
COOPER: Did you ever think something like this could happen in this community.
TANNER: Oh, no, I don't think anybody ever does. You know, you don't think it will ever happen, especially don't think whatever happened to you and you hope that it don't, you pray that it don't. You always feel for the folks that it does happen to.
But he's -- I don't know. Nobody deserves it. But, man, he's the least deserving of all the folks that don't deserve it. You know what I mean? He just heart of gold, help anybody, give the shirt off his back.
[20:40:04]
You know, had -- was passionate about everything that he did. Yes, man. So -- but he gave his life saving the kids, man. So that -- I could see him doing that, too. That's him in a nutshell.
COOPER: I know a GoFundMe has been set up for his kids, for his family. We're putting that up on the screen.
Matt Tanner, thank you for talking with us.
TANNER: Thank you.
COOPER: I'm just sickened by this and so sorry that we're talking under these circumstances. I wish you continued peace in the days ahead.
TANNER: Yes, sir. Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: All right.
As we mentioned, a GoFundMe was created to help Richard Aspinwall's wife and two daughters. You can contribute by visiting the page on your screen at gofundme.com/f/assist-shayna-aspinwall-in-this- difficult-time.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: ?We just got new information about the fundraising number that Vice President Harris's campaign is expected to report for August. A source telling CNN the final number will be more than double what the Trump campaign already reported. The Trump team said they took in $130 million last month.
That information comes the same day that the former president delivered a speech before the Economic Club of New York, which was billed as his vision for the economy. Keeping him honest, much of what he said involved either nostalgia for his first term in office, or mirrored comments we've heard in his previous campaigns, including to cut taxes, as well as regulations, without a lot of specifics.
He also leaned heavily on the idea that tariffs can pay for trillion dollar tax cuts, despite the fact that idea has alarmed many mainstream economists. No details on how he plans to get gasoline, quote, "below $2 a gallon." But the most interesting comment he made today may have been his response to a very clear and concise question on how to help Americans afford the expense of child care. It's kind of an absolute word salad.
Here's just part of his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you commit to prioritizing legislation to make child care affordable? And if so, what specific piece of legislation will you advance?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I would do that. And we're sitting down. You know, I was somebody, we had Senator Marco Rubio and my daughter Ivanka was so impactful on that issue. It's a very important issue.
But I think when you talk about the kind of numbers that I'm talking about, that -- because child care is child care, it couldn't, you know, there's something you have to have it in this country. You have to have it. But when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that I'm talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that they're not used to, but they'll get used to it very quickly.
And it's not going to stop them from doing business with us, but they'll have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country. Those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers that we're talking about, including child care, that it's going to take care. We're going to have -- I look forward to having no deficits within a fairly short period of time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So the question was on specific legislation for child care. He actually went on for another 53 seconds with that answer but you get the gist.
[20:45:04]
Joining us now, Jamal Simmons, a former communication director to Vice President Harris. Alyssa Farah Griffin, former Trump White House Communications Director, Scott Jennings, a former special assistant to President George W. Bush.
What did you make of the economic speech today?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that specific answer was as unintelligible as any of the worst moments in the Biden debate, that afterward, many of us said, Joe Biden should consider stepping aside. There was not a policy proposal. I think he was referring to extending the child tax credit when he referred to his daughter, but couldn't remember what the specific policy was.
And this is a very real issue to American voters. If you're, you know, a couple that has kids, many parents choose to forgo one parent working because it's actually cheaper for one to stay home. You also have the sandwich generation where they're helping with their aging parents as well as dealing with their children.
And there was not a single answer offered there. So, you know, if this is the kind of message we should expect in the debate, I think the American public is going to realize he's really short on details and doesn't have a lot of answers. I imagine his folks are putting some policy papers in front of him to try to clean up what he's trying to say there.
COOPER: Scott, I mean, it's interesting to have a speech, you know, at this, you know, group, you know, his vision for the economy. And yet, again, you know, so many of his supporters say they want to hear specifics. There's just not a lot of specifics.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he wasn't crisp on that one specific issue, I'll admit. But he did lay out a series of things, making his tax cuts that he passed in his term permanent. He talked about terminating the Inflation Reduction Act which by the way Joe Biden admitted today they totally lied about. He admitted they should have called it a climate change bill.
But he talked about terminating that and giving back unspent funds. He talked about cutting regulations. He talked about unleashing more domestic energy production. So he did give a speech today that gave you an idea of the kinds of economic principles that he would put in place.
COOPER: Right, but it's easy with a broad brush --
JENNINGS: -- (INAUDIBLE) inflation, they would improve the economy.
COOPER: It's easy with a broad brush, Jamal, to say, as he did in 2016 on day one, I'm going to eliminate Obamacare. It's going to be so easy and immediately we'll have something else that, you know, I mean it's easy to say all this stuff, the devil's in all the details.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is. It's funny to me because they clearly have been trying to lay on the Vice President this mantle that she's not serious. That --
COOPER: I mean, she's certainly had some word salad answers in her past.
SIMMONS: Of course, of course, of course. But, you know, she's been on this campaign and she's doing rallies and nobody's paying attention. She's been putting policy out and people are getting it. The Trump campaign is trying to put policy out, but it's just not really working because the candidate won't stay on it.
So instead, you know, Al Gore called. I think he wants his policy back. He put out this efficiency thing with Elon Musk as the head of the efficiency council, which sounds a lot like Al Gore's reinventing government proposal back in 1993 that cut $100 billion out of government spending. I think Trump is recycling things because they just don't have anything new, and they're just reacting to what the Harris campaign is doing.
COOPER: Do you think, I mean, Alyssa, do you think that idea of, you know, Elon Musk, like, overseeing the government -- I mean, does that appeal to voters you think?
FARAH GRIFFIN: I don't know that it -- well, I can't speak to if it appeals to voters, but I can say this, it's not going to happen He's not going to go. He's not going to go through an SF-86 process a background check to disclose his assets and then go work in the federal government and have to give up certain investments.
So it's kind of just something you say to target a certain segment of the voter population that loves Elon Musk. But Donald Trump is really throwing things at a wall to see what sticks. It's much like this announcement and proclamation that he's going to make IVF either paid for by the federal government or he's going to force insurance companies to cut that.
COOPER: He's also going to release the JFK files, which he also said he would release in 2016.
FARAH GRIFFIN: I remember sitting in the Oval while he was discussing in 2020, releasing the JFK files and it never happened. Then there's many of these things, by the way, that he talks about require acts of Congress. We don't know what the makeup of Congress is going to look like, but it certainly won't be easy as we learned with repealing Obamacare.
COOPER: Scott, the first ballots in North Carolina are supposed to start going out tomorrow. That may be delayed because of a request from RFK Jr. to have his name removed from the ballot. If it's decided that his name remains on, do you think that could hurt Trump in North Carolina? Because, I mean, obviously, RFK Jr. is supporting Trump and wants his followers to vote in the battleground states for Trump.
JENNINGS: Yes, I mean, obviously, if a few thousand people, you know, choose that line on the ballot and the race is decided by a few thousand folks, yes. I mean, I look -- I think all these states are going to be incredibly close. So any kind of things that happen with the ballots names on, names off could make a difference.
If I may just go back on the efficiency issue, I actually do think voters want to hear a president of the United States say, you know, maybe the federal government does need to be more efficient. Maybe we do waste money. Maybe it's too big. Maybe we need to take a look top to bottom to see if we've been stacking bureaucracy on top of bureaucracy for so long that we have no idea what's working.
So I think, as a matter of what will voters say to this, and I don't know if Elon Musk is going to run it or the right person to run it or whatever, but they do believe, they do believe that outsiders, business people, folks from the private sector might have something to say about how government could run more efficiently.
[20:50:07] It's one of the allures of Trump in the first place. Trump the businessman. It's why they think he would be good at managing the economy. So I do think there's some appeal to it politically.
COOPER: But we've all been around long enough to know that every person running for president has talked about, you know, waste and inefficiency, and that's how they're going to, you know, reduce the deficit. That's how -- I mean, that's always been the throw line in debates of like, well, I'm going to be relentless on, you know -- it also, the Elon Musk reference goes back to 2016, when Trump was talking about Carl Icahn, that Carl Icahn's going to be in the government, and, you know, it's going to be all these business leaders that he reaches out to, that didn't really pan out.
SIMMONS: I mean, I'll just tell you, Al Gore spent five years, from 1993 to 1998, a 2,000 page report that collapsed and combined 800 agencies, saved $100 billion. I was in the 2000 campaign for Al Gore. It didn't work out very well, right? It wasn't that good. American public just doesn't really care that much about that when they have real concerns for their own personal lives they want the president to address.
COOPER: Jamal Simmons, Alyssa Farah Griffin, thank you, Scott Jennings, always.
Up next, a CNN exclusive investigation on how a man's simple call to the police to help find his missing father ended up with him accused of murder and on a psychiatric hold. A CNN investigation ahead. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Tonight, a story you'll only hear on CNN. It's about a man named Tom Perez who called police for help. He thought his father was missing, but police came to believe he'd killed his father. And what happened next is stunning. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In August 2018, Tom Perez called Fontana, California police to report his elderly father missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, this is CSO Pina with Fontana Police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we're going to put him in the system right now as a missing person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh no, no.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): But 36 hours later, Perez was placed on a psychiatric hold for trying to take his own life. And the Fontana Police Department had gotten him to admit to a murder he never committed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. TOM PEREZ, INTERROGATED BY POLICE FOR 17 HOURS: I was now in their little box of horrors, their little box as they call it.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Perez has never publicly spoken about what happened, until now to CNN.
PEREZ: I felt like they were my captors. And I had nothing. There was nothing I could do.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Detectives at the Fontana Police Department brought Perez in for questioning over his missing father. He soon became their prime suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really concerning to me that he hasn't been back yet.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): They were convinced Perez's father had been murdered at the home the two shared. Police said Perez appeared suspicious and they suspected a violent act based on broken furniture and that some of his father's things were discarded.
They also said they found some blood evidence inside the home. Perez told police the mess was from home renovations and they were getting rid of things before selling it. After searching the home, police asked him to go to the station. That's when detectives turned a missing person's call into a 17-hour interrogation to get a confession.
When they were not successful, they recruited Perez's close friend to help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, they got you on murder, dude. They got you on murder.
PEREZ: Impossible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doing good, colonel (ph).
[20:55:06]
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): When the friend, who later said he regretted his involvement, didn't get a confession, the interrogators brought his pet dog Margo into the room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You killed him? And he's dead. And your dog sitting here looking at you knowing that you killed your dad.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Detectives suggested that Margo might need to be put down after witnessing such a traumatic event.
PEREZ: Just wanted to help her, not let go. And then they took her out of the room sometime after that. Felt like the end of the world for me.
Wait a beer?
JEFF NOBLE, PEREZ HIRED POLICE EXPERT: I've never ever seen a situation where the police bring a dog this size through the police department, they transport it there, walk it through the police department, bring it into interrogation room and use it as a tool in order to seek a confession. It's unconscionable. It's simply unconscionable.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Throughout the interrogation, Perez says he was suffering from mental health issues but was denied medical help.
PEREZ: Are you going to bring me my doctor? You want to take me to E.R.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't need to go to the E.R.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): In the footage CNN reviewed, police lead a sleep deprived and exasperated Perez into a confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you stab him?
PEREZ: I didn't think that I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if you did, where would you have stabbed him?
PEREZ: It might have been in the belly.
JERRY STEERING, PEREZ'S LAWYER: They got him to affirm suggestions they made to him. Like, well, you stabbed them. OK, I stabbed them.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Distraught, psychologically beaten and overwhelmed with grief, Perez says he tried to take his own life using his shoelace.
PEREZ: They attacked me right at the very things that I love most, my fur baby, my father, and it doesn't seem like there's anything left. I couldn't see the reason to continue with more pain.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): But his father wasn't dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Margo, I believe, was following me.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Police learned from Perez's sister that their father was unharmed, but Perez remained in the interrogation room.
STEERING: They learned that Tom's father was alive and well, and was at LAX airport, ready to take a flight to go visit his sister. They didn't have the nerve to look him in the face. They didn't have the nerve to tell him his dad's OK.
PEREZ: They let me in that mental anguish and just suffer continually.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Police put him on a psychiatric hold at a hospital where days later he finally learns his father is alive.
PEREZ: A younger nurse came over to my bedside and says, I know it's -- it doesn't says in your file that not to speak to anybody, any family members, but your dad's on the phone, and I went, what? She handed the phone to me, and I just dropped to the floor crying because he was alive.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Five days of hell. After he called the police for help, he is reunited with his father.
THOMAS PEREZ SR., PEREZ'S FATHER: And he said, Dad, is that you? Is that really you? I said, yes. We had tears in our eyes.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): Seeking accountability for what he endured, Perez filed a federal lawsuit against the city of Fontana.
NOBLE: Police officers are trained that they can engage in deception. But when you go over the line and you engage in deceptive action, it would cause an innocent person to confess to a crime they didn't commit, that's where the line is crossed.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): One of the detectives defended his actions in deposition video exclusively obtained by CNN.
SGT. KYLE GUTHRIE, DETECTIVE ON PEREZ CASE: I don't think that the police department would say we did anything wrong. We were just attempting to get some information from Mr. Perez, and that we had been with Mr. Perez all day. And we're running out of things to say to him to try to get the answer about where his father was located.
PROKUPECZ (voice-over): There is no indication that there has been an internal review and none of the officers involved have been disciplined. Several have been promoted. Earlier this year, Perez settled with the city for $900,000.
The city issued a statement to CNN saying, "The settlement included no finding of wrongdoing." The city added that Perez was not isolated as claimed. He was given his medication and fed multiple times.
For Perez and his father, the trauma continues.
PEREZ: No amount of compensation will ever compensate me for what I went through, ever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Shimon joins us now. What happened after Perez was released from the hospital?
PROKUPECZ (on-camera): The investigation didn't end. I mean, they were so convinced that something happened in that house that the police, within an hour after Mr. Perez was released from the hospital, they went to a court and got a warrant, put a tracker on his vehicle, on his car --
COOPER: Hut his father was alive.
PROKUPECZ (on-camera): But his father was alive. But they were, for whatever reason, they were so convinced that something happened and they didn't give up for weeks. They kept investigating him. It's pretty crazy, right, Anderson? I mean, incredible story.
COOPER: Yes. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow.
The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
