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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Asked About Bomb Threats In Springfield, Ohio, Trump Says "Real Threat" Is happening At Border; Trump Suggests He May Change His Mind On Another Debate If "He's In The Right Mood"; Harris In PA On Day Two Of Swing-State Tour; Says She's "Feeling Very Good About Pennsylvania"; NFL Hall Of Famers, Raiders Coach Suggest Dolphins QB Consider Retiring After Third Confirmed Concussion. 8-9p ET
Aired September 13, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: But when you take a step back, I know you see a bigger problem with this beyond this moment and what kind of division that might cause. What is it?
JOHN HOPE BRYANT, PERSONAL FINANCE EXPERT, ADVISED OBAMA, CLINTON, BUSH: In 1972, you couldn't get a bank account because you're a woman. In 1972, you couldn't get a credit card. Your husband would have to qualify for a loan for you, guarantee it.
In 1972 -- we got beyond that stupid moment, and now a third of the entire economy is women. We have got to figure out whether were better together and you cannot demonize people and expect for us together work together when if he became president for all of us to aspire and come up together.
We're one America. America is not a country she's an idea. We can make it whatever we want. And that is not demonizing people. It's a dog whistle and it needs to stop.
BURNETT: All right. Well, on that note of hope, John Hope Bryant. Thank you very much for being with me tonight. Have a great weekend, John and to all of you as well thanks for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:01:04]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": In a press conference filled with falsehoods, the former president defends his ties to a true racist conspiracy peddler as the Ohio City, they're both pushing anti-immigrant conspiracies about is hit with bomb threats at local schools.
Also tonight, Vice President Harris campaigning in parts of battleground Pennsylvania that went deep red last time, and the reception that she got there today. Senator John Fetterman joins us live.
And later Dr. Sanjay Gupta and what a star NFL quarterback, just 26- years-old, is now facing after his third diagnosed concussion of his career.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
For a second straight day elementary school students in Springfield, Ohio were forced to evacuate their classrooms after another day of threats made against schools and yesterday, city buildings.
After a week of falsehoods, some of them inflammatory about, some of them are just flat out racist about the city made by Donald Trump, his running mate and their supporters, including by the former president today, who was offered multiple opportunities to try to tamp down the tension, correct the falsehoods, and disavow a particularly toxic follower and traveling companion of his.
His chance came at a press conference he gave this afternoon at his golf course near Los Angeles. In it, he claimed he won the debate. Our polling and some of his fellow republicans certainly disagree. So does his support Robert F. Kennedy, who said he lost on national TV.
He also made fun of moderator David Muir, again, he said he would win and solidly blue California if votes there would be counted honestly, they have been counted honestly, we should point out he repeated a false claim that California was diverting water into the ocean.
He accused Kamala Harris of lying about having worked in McDonald's in 1983, repeatedly mispronounced her name.
In other words, he said things which while they'd be outlandish if spoken by virtually any other candidate for any office ever were no pun intended par for the course.
And would sometimes obscure his other words that inflame and incite and can lead to dark places such as his turning a legitimate line of criticism over the pullout from Afghanistan and the bombing that killed 13 American service members into this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Their sons and daughter, just as though Kamala shot them with a pistol in her hand or his hand, they were killed by Biden and Kamala.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And if that weren't explicit enough, he's also implicating the president and vice president the attempt on his life. Saying in Tuesday's debate, "I probably took a bullet to the head because of the things that they say about me," which at least suggests he understands the impact that words can have.
Yet, even after Springfield, schools were evacuated for a second time today, he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Springfield, Ohio, 20,000 illegal Haitian migrants have descended upon a town of 58,000 people destroying their way of life. They've destroyed the place and people don't like to talk about it because -- even the town doesn't like to talk about it because it sounds so bad for the town they live there, they're proud. They love the town.
For years, it was a great place, safe, nice. Now they have 20,000 and actually heard today it is 32,000 the new number.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, keeping them honest in Springfield, the Haitians in Springfield or not, as he says, illegal, by and large, they live their lawfully complete with Social Security numbers and work permits under a federal program.
Now, instead of admitting that, the former president and his running mate have latched onto a right-wing internet meme about the Haitian community there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, They're eating the cats.
Well, I've seen people on television --
DAVID MUIR, ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT HOST: Let me just say here this...
TRUMP: The people on television say my dog was taken and used for food.
SEN. JD VANCE (R) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: I don't know which -- what are the full spate of animals that are being consumed there in Springfield, we've heard reports from a number of constituents on the ground that they have had pets abducted by some of the immigrants there.
[20:05:04]
TRUMP: Springfield, Ohio that you've been reading about 20,000 illegal Haitian immigrants have descended upon the town of 58,000 people destroying their entire way of life. This was a beautiful community and now it's horrible.
And illegal Haitians, they came in, illegal Haitian migrants taking over a beautiful place. Can you imagine you have this small little community all of a sudden you have 20,000 illegals in your community. Nobody knows where they come from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: But as you heard a moment ago today, without any evidence, he jacked that number up to 32,000. So he heard, he said. And also today, he vowed to deport them all but he got the country wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We will do large deportations from Springfield, Ohio, large deportations. We're going to get these people out, we're bringing them back to Venezuela.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So it's easy to let the comic opera aspect of him confusing the country he scorns it again, obscures the central fact that what he's saying is inflammatory and false with regard to Haitians' legal status in Springfield and the racist slur on their dietary habits.
Springfield area law enforcement this week went through 11 months of calls, received, and none, none, according to them concern pets being eaten. That's the real news along with school evacuations today and yesterday after rumors and the falsehoods that he and his supporters are spreading.
Here's what conspiracy peddler. Laura Loomer posted on X today, quoting now, "Elon Musk post video of Haitian woman confirming Haitians do in fact cats and do animal sacrifice and voodoo. This comes as the media is lying and saying Donald Trump lied about Kamala Harris' Haitian invaders eating peoples pets in Ohio. Its real and its happening."
Now, Loomer, you'll recall recently posted a racist tweet about the vice president's Indian heritage. She's been travelling with the former president recently on his plane to the dismay of other Republicans accompanying him to 9/11 ceremonies, despite having posted a video claiming the attacks were an inside job in her words. He was asked about her today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: What would you say your Republican colleagues or your allies who are concerned about your close relationship with Laura Loomer?
TRUMP: Well, I don't know what they would say. Laura has been a supporter of mine, just like a lot of people are supporters and she's been a supporter of mine.
She speaks very positively of the campaign. I'm not sure why you asked that question, but Laura is a supporter. I don't control Laura. Laura has to say what she wants. She's a --
REPORTER: Your allies have expressed concern.
TRUMP: Well, I don't know. I mean look, I can't tell Laura what to do. Laura is a supporter. I have a lot of supporters so, I don't know what exactly you're referring to.
REPORTER: Laura Loomer was traveling with you on your plane --
TRUMP: A lot of people do, it's a very big plane.
REPORTER: She made racist remarks about your opponent. She also espoused conspiracy theories about 9/11. Do you disavow those remarks?
TRUMP: Well I have to see what the remarks are. You're telling me for the first time -- (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He has to see what her remarks are as you saw from that tweet of hers today, her remarks on that subject are his remarks and despite being a big plane, as he said, based on it, is at a premium. Even more so, after his security detail was beefed up.
She's on the plane and by his side because he wants her there. But in a social media post late today, he signaled a possible change and you can make of it what you will quoting now, "Laura Loomer doesn't work for the campaign. She's a private citizen, longtime supporter. I disagree with the statements she made. But like the many millions of people who support me, she's tired of watching the radical left Marxists and fascists violently attack and smear me even to the point of doing anything to stop their political opponent, ME."
COOPER: So, a lot to get to joining us, CNN political commentators, Scott Jennings and Ashley Allison, POLITICO's, Meridith McGraw and Michael Eric Dyson, distinguished professor at Vanderbilt university and coauthor of the new book "Represent, The Unfinished Fight for The Vote".
Michael, why do you think this conspiracy theory about Haitian migrant population in Springfield continues to be so pushed by right-wing media circles and by the president, and former president?
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR AT VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY AND CO-AUTHOR, "REPRESENT: THE UNFINISHED FIGHT FOR THE VOTE":Well, in a word, it's part of the big autocracy, the rule, rein and tyranny of collection of bigoted figures. And by bigot, I mean as Howard Thurman said, a bigot is a person who makes an idol of his or her commitments, a fetish of their own particular beliefs.
And this man has come consistently denounced others. If you remember he called Haiti a shithole country. This is an extension of the same attempt to both smear Vice President Kamala Harris by refusing to call her by her rightful name.
That is a racist trope that has been deployed by many on the right, it's not an innocent mistake because if you mispronounce your name and you are corrected and you continue to mispronounce her name. It's the extension of calling Black people what you will call them regardless of what their names are.
[20:10:02]
But when you look even beyond that, this notion that Black people are consuming dogs and cats, because they are Haitian and then miss naming the country that he will deport them to. This is all a discombobulated bubble of bigotry that continues to operate within Donald Trump's imagination.
And unfortunately, many on the right wing, other conservatives have not called him on it, which means therefore they're complicit in his bigotry and an extension of his poisonous worldview. COOPER: Scott, I mean, the former president had the opportunity to
walk back his comments about this -- what he is saying about Haitians in Springfield.
He was asked about the bomb threats that have closed schools in the area. He chose not to address something that is actually happening there and affecting the lives of school kids there. Do you wish he would walk this back?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I wish he would stick to the facts of what's happening about immigration in this country. It is a legitimate debate to have about what's happening in communities where you have influx of immigration, whether its legal or illegal, and whether that's the kind of immigration system that we need.
I think that's a conversation the country is interested in having. And I think it gets diluted and frankly lost, the macro issues get lost when we get wrapped up in these other sidebar issues or these other issues that maybe aren't grounded in reality.
So yes, look, I think immigration and the economy are the two issues on which he can and might win the election. And the immigration issues we have in places all over the country, whether its Ohio or New York City or anywhere else are bad enough that you don't have to -- you don't have to dabble on things that are not true.
COOPER: Ashley, I mean, it's clear he believes there's a benefit in as Scott says, dabbling in these things which are not true. I mean these are racist tropes that he's dabbling with.
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and they're quite dangerous. I was speaking to a reporter today that was just back from Springfield, Ohio and was an African-American reporter and she said she'd been called the 'N' word while there.
His words have power and we have seen before when he inflames his base to either attack Black people in Buffalo or at a grocery store, or whether it is a Walmart in El Paso he is a leader, whether you like it or not, he is the leader of the Republican Party and we can have a conversation about immigration.
We can talk about it. It is the issue it's an issue that's been plaguing our country for 30 years because leaders have not -- on both sides of the party, quite honestly -- have yet to find a common ground.
And when there was a chance for once after decades of not doing anything, this leader, Donald Trump, instead of letting the party solve the problem or take a step forward, he stopped it. And then months later, he wants to inflame his base say that Black immigrants, not just any Black immigrants are eating their pets, which is akin to how people have looked at Black people as less than human. Haitian people. Laura Loomer's tweet about voodoo.
These are tropes that he is doing to get people excited to come out and vote for him. But I make a call to all of us. We can be better than this. We can have policy conversations and we can do them on debate stages. But I don't think we can do them in the right way when Donald Trump is there because he had an opportunity to do it.
And instead of sticking to the facts and talking about what he would do for America, he took that opportunity to push more lies and disinformation about Black people and Black immigrants and it's dangerous, and its reckless and he needs to be stopped by all people, Republicans and Democrats.
COOPER: Well, Meridith, how are elected Republicans reacting to the former president continuing to push this attack?
MERIDITH MCGRAW, POLITICO NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well for the Trump campaign, they see immigration as a winning issue for Republicans across the board. They see that Trump is up in the polls with immigration. And this falsehood came about because it was pushed initially by Senator JD Vance of Ohio and then was repeated again on the debate stage.
The Republicans are going to keep talking about immigration up until November, but what we're seeing in this is that there are real-world consequences for the falsehoods that are being spread about the city in Ohio.
We heard the mayor of Springfield say that they need help there. They don't need hate, and when you see elementary schools get evacuated, the City Hall get evacuated for bomb threats and citizens have concerns about their safety because of the threats, it goes beyond the debate about immigration as everybody else in this panel said, and goes to being real-world consequences for the people that are living in this town.
COOPER: Michael, it seems because the Harris campaign has kind of brushed off most of the former president's attacks as part of his normal playbook. I'm wondering how you see that -- I mean, is there anything in today's statement that they would want to respond to or for them is it better to not get involved in -- I mean, is that what they want? Is that what the Trump campaign wants?
[20:15:17]
DYSON: Yes, exactly. They're trying to bait the Harris campaign besides other nefarious intentions. And I think she's absolutely right. Do not step down to the level of your opponent at this point. And I think that she is wise to do so. The campaign will not allow Donald Trump to set the terms of it. But I wish when other Republicans are describing what is going on, as brother Scott just did so eloquently, that is untrue, but it's also racist.
And it's important to say its racist, not just untrue, because untrue is a kind of neutral description of an objective calculation about what's right and what's wrong. It's also morally heinous that a president, a former president of the United States of America, would continue you to race bait his opponent because she bested him in a debate. The Black girl beat the White boy, and now he is upset beyond the
telling, and he's incapable of controlling himself. And as a result of that, he's trying to make the nation pay, but Kamala Harris is absolutely right to continue to focus on her project and her agenda let others fight those battles in the trenches.
COOPER: Everybody stick around. Meridith McGraw, thank you for being with us.
Coming up next. We're going to have more. The former president reopens the door to another debate with the vice president while claiming victory again without any evidence for the first one.
Later, the Harris campaign looking to narrow his margins in reliably red part parts of Pennsylvania. We'll talk to Senator Fetterman from Pennsylvania. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:12]
COOPER: As we mentioned at the top of the program, the former president had a lot to say today, including about debating again, which just yesterday, he backed away from. Here's what he said on the topic this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AISHAH HASNIE, FOX NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What would it take to do another debate or do you need one?
TRUMP: I wouldn't need anything. I could do it tomorrow.
HASNIE: Would you do it on Fox News?
TRUMP: I've done two debates. Everything was crooked in the second one. I did great with the debates, and I think they've answered everything. But maybe if I got in the right mood, I don't know. Right now I'm leading and I'm leading in every single poll on the debates. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Back now with the panel, actually, obviously he's not leading in any poll about the debates, I don't know if anyone who really thought he won that debate.
Anthony Scaramucci was on the program last night saying hundred percent, he's going to want to debate again, he's going to change his mind. This is all just talk and negotiating tactic. Are you surprised at all that he now is suggesting perhaps or dangling this, if he's in the right mood?
ALLISON: No, I mean, it's Donald Trump at this point and I'm not surprised by anything he does. The thing that I think is interesting about his response is like, I could do another debate. Yes, it doesn't mean he will do it well, just like the last debate.
And so, he shows up, he prepares with people like Tulsi Gabbard and the last person in his ear is Laura Loomer. And when that happens and you still don't say that you don't want those type of people around you, you will probably have a similar debate performance.
Look, I saw the debate just like everybody else saw the debate. Donald Trump lost that debate. Now, does that mean that if the election were today, Kamala Harris would win the election? I can't say that, but anyone who was paying half a bit of attention on Tuesday night knows that Donald Trump spiraled after being thrown off his game, talking about crowd size, not talking about the economy, not talking about immigration, talking about crowd size, nothing that actually improves the quality of American's lives.
COOPER: It was more about crowd departure. I believe.
ALLISON: Thank you, for factchecking me on that Anderson, keeping me honest.
COOPER: The implication that people got bored and they left, that's what set him off.
ALLISON: Yes, that people who did not -- were not entertained by him. That's what concerns him, not what the quality of American life is. I'm not surprised he's doing it. Will we see another debate? I'm not sure but just because he shows up, doesn't mean he'll do a good job.
COOPER: Scott, as somebody who wants to see him win the White House, do you think he should do another debate?
JENNINGS: Absolutely not. I don't think there's anything to be gained. Look, he's done seven debates since 2016 in the general election. He lost three according to the snap polls. This is all the polling to Hillary Clinton. He did win the electoral college. He lost two in 2020, he did not win the election. This one our poll had him losing 63 to 37, even though he did pick up a couple of points on the economic questions.
So, what are the odds that the next one is going to go better? And also, what are the odds that Kamala Harris, I mean, what you're depending on is that she fails she didn't fail at this one. And so, even if you just sort of fought to a draw, does that actually get you anything?
When you're managing a campaign, you're like well, I got to get something out of this time expenditure and so my advice, leave it be, grind it out, fight her to a national draw in the national polls. And if you do, you're almost a hundred percent assured to win the electoral college, you don't need another debate to do it.
COOPER: Michael, I mean, the Harris campaign obviously immediately said that they wanted another debate. Do you do you think it's good for Harris to do another debate? And what do you -- what are you hoping you see from her campaign that you haven't seen so far, if there is something? DYSON: Yes. No, I think obviously, it would be great because she would
best him again. Her rhetorical mastery was on display there. Her ability to goad him, to prod him, to bait him, and for him to effortlessly step into her trap.
It was a masterclass in that regard, but also in the second debate, she might be able to kind of expand upon her own vision about what America is, to reinforce it to the public.
[20:25:00]
Because what's interesting here by every metric, she's beat him in debate, she's clearly more articulate, she's more highly intelligent, her capacity to express herself shows a self-possession and a moral disposition that are superior, she's better at business it seems than he is. He just sucks at everything and yet he is in competition.
Must be great to be a mediocre White guy, who blew a lot of money, who people believe is the leader of choice for this nation. So she can continue to puncture holes into that fantasy that has been blown up on the helium of exaggerated belief and what he represents.
And I think she can remind America that our true destiny as Americans, White, Black, or whatever color we are, is to come together and to love each other with that model we have, 'e pluribus unum', out of many one.
So, it's certainly to her advantage to do so, but I doubt if Donald Trump wants to step back into that ring and get pummeled the way he was.
COOPER: Ashley, Michael spoke to this before the break, during his presser today, Trump mispronounced Kamala Harris' name at least 27 times, something, he and a lot of his allies have been repeatedly doing before she even began the campaign.
He obviously knows how to pronounce the vice president's name. Is this all just part of a piece of trying to make her into an other?
ALLISON: Absolutely. And you know, maybe everybody didn't watch the DNC, but there were two little girls who were able to explain the simple phonics of their aunt's name.
Kamala Harris, one word, 'comma' like that's in the sentence and 'la' like 'la, la, la, la, la; they explained it to us.
If he's not smart enough to remember that, then is he smart enough to be the president of the United States? Probably not.
If he is not responsible enough to learn someone's name, is he responsible enough to be the president United States, probably not. But what he is doing is trying, like you said, to otherize her, to say something like, oh her name is so foreign that she can't be one of us. She couldn't lead us. She's not a part of us, but we have a yet again, an opportunity to say that is not who we are. We are going to judge people on their merits, on their qualifications, on their ability to improve the quality of my life.
And I'm going to ask them questions by their proper name and get it right. But this is just Donald Trump's -- like the vice president says, same old tired playbook.
COOPER: Michael, I want to ask you about your new book. It's called "Represent: The Unfinished Fight For The Vote". You take the reader through the history of the struggle for voting rights in this country by telling the stories of politicians and activists who made it possible advance that cause.
I'm wondering what the parallels you draw between those efforts and the political situation today.
DYSON: Well, when you think about an indigenous woman like Zitkala Sa, when you think about a Mabel Ping-Hua Lee, a woman who went on to get a PhD from Columbia. When you think about Frederick Douglass, a rhetorical master, most eloquent man of the 19th century three, or Elizabeth Cady Stanton, there as a feminist arguing.
America has always been at his best when we have come together to leverage the authority and the validity of our citizenship in the name of true democracy.
But look at the election of 1876, when you got the birth of the red shirters and they were out there riding rough shot against African- American people who were simply trying to vote.
And then, congressmen and senators were going on the floor bragging about how they had undercut and suppressed the Black vote. And to the extent of killing Black people to preserve White Supremacy.
And on January 6th, we saw that re-issue itself again, from post- reconstruction to what's going on in this third reconstruction as Dr. Peniel Joseph calls this. This is a ready example for us to look at, what we point out in this book is our opportunity to make America truly what it is meant to be.
Not make America great again, make America better and better than it's ever been, because we're committed to the fundamental principles that have defined us as a nation from the very beginning.
COOPER: Michael Eric Dyson, Scott Jennings, Ashley Allison. Thank you.
Up next, Vice President Harris in Pennsylvania today, a state she likely must win. Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman was with her at one stop, who is going to join us to talk about what is shaping up to be a very close race there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:44]
COOPER: Vice President Harris wrapped up day two of her post debate tour of swing states in Pennsylvania. She visited two counties that the former president won in both his previous elections. She said she's feeling very good about Pennsylvania. Those were her words and said this a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are witnessing a full on assault on other hard fought, hard won, fundamental freedoms and rights, like the freedom to vote. The freedom to be safe from gun violence, the freedom to join a union.
(CHEERING)
HARRIS: And the freedom to love who you love openly and with pride.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: In a moment, Democratic Senator John Fetterman joins me. He was at today's first stop with Vice President Harris, but first our Senior Data Reporter, Harry Enten, on the state of the race. So how are the candidates doing in Pennsylvania?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: You know, if you had asked me a month ago, Anderson, I would have thought and said that Kamala Harris was a slight favorite to win in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. She led in the majority of the polls there. There was a small lead, but it was pretty clear and consistent across the polling data.
You now look at the polling that's come out over the last 15 days, and we've seen movement in Donald Trump's direction. Now, obviously, these polls were conducted before the debate, but the bottom line is, a tie in the CBS News/YouGov poll, a tie in the CNN poll.
[20:35:05]
So, a month ago it looked like Harris was favored. Now, in all honesty, I have no idea who's going to win.
COOPER: How does the electorate break down in terms of Republicans and Democrats? And over the years, how has it changed?
ENTEN: Yes. Republicans have done an extremely good job of registering voters. You know, if you go back four years ago and you look at the party registration in the state, Democrats had about a 600,000 voter advantage. Look at where we are now in September of 2024.
Republicans have closed that gap significantly. That lead that Democrats have, it's still an advantage, but it's down by -- down to only 200,000 voters, 3.5 million to 3.3 million. Republicans have closed that gap by 400,000 voters.
So the bottom line is the electorate that Joe Biden won with four years ago is not the same electorate that Kamala Harris is going to have to win with in November if she wants to win in Pennsylvania. It's a significantly more Republican electorate, Anderson.
COOPER: And what about the electoral map? Let's take a look at that in terms of the importance of Pennsylvania.
ENTEN: It's Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania. I feel like Tim Russert, but in 2024, talking about the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Because the bottom line is this. If you take the betting favorites in all the states and you give Kamala Harris Pennsylvania, she gets to exactly 270 electoral votes.
But, Anderson, if you take away those 19 electoral votes and you give them to Donald Trump, guess who wins the election? It's Donald Trump with 281 electoral votes. The bottom line is Kamala Harris was in Pennsylvania today. She'll be going back over and over and over again, and she'll be joined by Donald Trump because the bottom line is whoever wins Pennsylvania is most likely going to win the presidency.
COOPER: All right. Harry Enten, thanks very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Joining us now Pennsylvania Democratic Senator John Fetterman. Senator, thanks for being with us. Given what we're seeing in the polls from Pennsylvania, how confident are you that Vice President Harris will be able to repeat President Biden's win there?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): I do believe. And I've been consistently saying that the Vice President is going to win in Pennsylvania and ultimately become our next president. But I've been saying the same thing since 2016, that this is going to be incredibly close and it's going to come down in many sense, like a coin toss at this point.
And the polls and some of the other different kinds of factors, it's going to be very close. And that's what I've been consistently saying. And I feel really good about it. But at the end of the day, that dynamic really hasn't changed. And I don't expect it to it.
COOPER: Is -- are there -- I mean, do you think every -- most people, I mean, the vast majority of people have made up their minds and it's a question of getting people out or is there room to finding people who traditionally haven't come out to vote and get them out to vote and are there a lot of undecideds left, do you think?
FETTERMAN: I do think a vast majority of people have decided that and you have Donald Trump talking about eating the dogs and eating the cats and those kinds of bizarre things and now palling around like an absolute nut like Laura Loomer and those kinds of things. But there's a lot of people that really like that, or they want that.
And some people may can't understand why somebody would want to sign up for four more years of that mess. But it's going to be close. Look at -- in 2016, you have Clinton. She was supremely qualified and won three debates, actually won all three of the debates and she lost by 45,000 votes and Joe Biden actually won by 80,000 out of millions and millions of votes. So, it's been close in the last two elections, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's not the same situation in 2024.
COOPER: You accompanied Vice President Harris to one of two Pennsylvania counties that she visited today that Trump won by double digits in 2020. I know you've been a proponent of Democrats going to red counties where Trump is popular. What do you think resonates particularly there and who there is persuadable?
FETTERMAN: Well, these are incredibly important kinds of counties. Like we were in Cambria and, you know, the drive in there from Pittsburgh area when I drove for the -- to the rally in Johnstown. You see a lot of Trump signs, and you see a lot of enthusiasm on the ground for Harris and Walz as well. It just shows how divided we are in Pennsylvania.
And you got to show up in places like Erie or Cambria or in Wilke- Barre or in Bucks County, all across Pennsylvania. And I really think it needs to be like a trench war and the kind of small counties and small markets all across Pennsylvania to reach the reachable kinds of voters there.
And I think a majority of Pennsylvania are going to realize that, that Harris and Walz is the kinds of ticket that is really true. The new way forward through that. Unless you want like a person who's talking about eating dogs and other kinds of bizarre things.
COOPER: I know you've said that you don't think fracking will be a defining issue in Pennsylvania. Is zale (ph) an issue, obviously, that matters to voters there? The Vice President says, you know, her position is what it is, that she is not going to ban fracking.
[20:40:03]
How -- I mean, do you think that is enough? Do you think that makes a difference?
FETTERMAN: No, it's not -- she's not going to ban fracking. And I know she's very supportive of the energy industry as well. But fracking is -- it is an issue, but it's not a defining issue. It's talking about one significant, it's a very distinct -- it's the choice there in 24, as it's the same that kind of a choice. And it's going to be a gut check kind of a thing.
And a majority of people will decide that they want four years of Donald Trump kind of chaos and debasement or did you want a new way forward like that's Harris. And I think a majority of people will do that, but it is going to be very close.
I wish I had a different kinds of something more exciting to say that I've been saying for eight years parts of this, but I am optimistic. And you see, you know, it's undeniable. There is significant energy on the ground for Harris here. I've witnessed it in a couple of different kinds of events all across there.
And tomorrow night, I'm going to Westmoreland County dinner, and that's an important kinds of county. It's a red county, but there's a lot of support there as well too. And you got to fight and scratch for every last vote in those kinds of counties that it might be read on a map.
But it's not the color, it's actually the margins there. And if we're able to blunt some of those Trump margins and those deep red counties, you know, 81 percent, those can be lethal if that's across Pennsylvania. But if you blunt those down into the 70s, into the 60s, that's why Harris is going to be our next president.
COOPER: Senator John Fetterman, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
FETTERMAN: OK.
COOPER: Up next, should a star NFL quarterback retire after his third concussion? Some other big name former players are urging him to do just that. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:46:22]
COOPER: Renewed concerns tonight about player safety in the NFL. At least two Hall of Fame players and a current head coach have suggested the star quarterback, the Miami Dolphins, should consider retiring after his third diagnosed concussion.
Tua Tagovailoa struggled to get up after this collision with a Buffalo defender late in the game last night. And this is not the first time this has happened. During the 2022 season, he was brutally thrown down, his head hit the ground. That game, he was carried off the field in a stretcher. It was his first of two diagnosed concussions in just that season.
It came about four days after a controversial decision to let him continue to play after he was seen stumbling and shaking his head following a hit. Now, the NFL and the Players Association updated its concussion protocol because of that incident.
Incidentally, the Bills defender involved in last night's hit was safety Damar Hamlin. You may remember that name. He collapsed last year during nationally televised Monday night game after taking a shot to the chest during a tackle. CPR was performed on the field after he lost his pulse. He needed resuscitation and defibrillation and later a ventilator.
Early this morning, he wrote on X, "My love and prayers with Tau fasho," slang for sure. "Sending you strength and healing for a speedy recovery. Much love broski."
Our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us. So what is your reaction when you see this hit, Sanjay?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's brutal. I mean, it's just, I think for anybody, it looks brutal. I think for a neurosurgeon like myself, it's particularly horrifying. If we can show that again, you showed some of this already. And I just want to point out a couple of things when you actually see what happens to Tau.
So this is just normal speed, what people saw, but this is slowing it down. Now watch as he lowers his shoulder and the amount of force, you can actually see his head and his cervical spine, on top of his spine actually sort of be pushed back as a result of that. And then after that, there's a significant rotation as well to his neck, and then he falls to the ground.
We subsequently learned that he was on the ground for a couple of minutes. But look what happens with his right hand over here, Anderson, that's called a fencing position. It's a fencing position like that. And that's something that's involuntary. It's a reflex that occurs and it's happening because of this injury to the area between the brain and the spinal cord, an area known as the brain stem.
So let me just show you here quickly. This is the brain. We saw that significant force on the top of the head here and then the rotation. These pathways between the brain and the spinal cord down here have to run through the brain stem and those areas are disrupted.
So this is a significant traumatic brain injury. It's a traumatic brain injury. That's what it is. That's what you have to call it. And as you pointed out when you're talking about this, there are different criteria that are the sort of sort of no-go criteria. I mean, someone is absolutely not returning to the field.
As a result of what's happened Tua in the past, they actually revise some of that criteria. So in addition to loss of consciousness, confusion, amnesia and seizure, there's also the fencing position. And something known as ataxia, which is basically stumbling, unable to get your balance.
So he, you know, he met a lot of criteria for that and it was really scary to watch, Anderson.
COOPER: I mean, in 2022, he had multiple concussions. They're talking about whether he would retire then. What kind of effect do multiple concussions have on the brain of a 26-year-old?
GUPTA: Yes. Well, you know, first of all, it's interesting. You know, I think when you look at the concussion research, what we're starting to learn is that there are some people who just are more easily concussed than others.
[20:50:01]
The biggest predictor, if you're going to have a concussion, is whether or not you've had a concussion in the past. And the former chancellor at UNC, Dr. Kevin Guskiewicz, won a MacArthur Genius Grant for this work. But he found that when you've had three concussions, which we know that he's two had talked about, has had at least three concussions, it raises the risk three fold for having another concussion.
And I think that's what's got a lot of people concerned. I mean, he is just someone whose brain is more easily concussed. What the long term impact is hard to say. I mean, we don't have a lot of data on people that have had that many concussions in such a short time and severe ones at that. But clearly, you have a long term cognitive impact in addition to the short term effects that we're seeing there.
COOPER: And when does, I mean, does he go back on the -- when can he -- is he allowed to go back on the field?
GUPTA: Yes. So, you know, the protocols are a little bit vague in this regard and they're sort of handled player to player and even team to team. But if I had to sort of summarize it, what happens is people are slowly allowed to do certain things. They may start to do some limited activity. They may start to do some aerobic activity, slowly doing more and more practice.
But here's the thing. Each time you sort of go up in stage in terms of what you're doing, if someone develops any symptoms, if they have any of the symptoms that I just showed on the previous screen, obviously, but even if they develop things like headache or things like that, then they sort of get downgraded again. You have to sort of work through all the stages that you're looking there on the screen before you can actually return to play.
There's no definitive timeline. A lot of people are asking this about him, in particular, but there's no definitive timeline.
COOPER: Yes.
GUPTA: I think people are worried about him, obviously, but they want to see how he progresses through these phases.
COOPER: Yes. It's so disturbing to see that.
Sanjay, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
GUPTA: Yes.
COOPER: Coming up next, the latest chapter in Donie O'Sullivan's continuing series, "Misinfonation." How a 24-year-old went from being a so-called Bernie Bro to embracing some pretty far-right ideas. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:36]
COOPER: As we've seen with Laura Loomer this week, the spread of misinformation, conspiracy theories, has flourished on the alt right. In this Sunday's "The Whole Story," Donie O'Sullivan continues his "Misinfonation" series, introducing us to some people who were once pretty far left, who've gone online and gone in a whole new direction.
Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the pro- Palestinian movement, one of the biggest voices online isn't a former diplomat, regional expert, or even a Palestinian. It's a 24-year-old white kid from California named Jackson Hinkle.
JACKSON HINKLE, AMERICAN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, at all. Just like you're not prepared to admit that Israel's a terrorist organization. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're wrong.
HINKLE: Kim Jong-un is a peace seeking leader.
We're going to de-NATOfy Ukraine --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
HINKLE: -- and we're going to de-nazify you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just sound completely bonkers.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And the people in the established Palestinian movement just want him to stop. He and his followers call themselves MAGA communists. And that isn't supposed to be a joke.
(CHEERING)
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The crowd here was mostly male and mostly white.
HINKLE: I will just say once and for all, so Piers Morgan never has to ask me again. No, I do not condemn Hamas. Very simple.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Jackson's social media following skyrocketed after the October 7th attack on Israel.
HINKLE: I've been to Russia, I've been to China. Their major cities are much nicer.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But Jackson had barely started speaking about Gaza.
HINKLE: Now Russia's better and stronger than ever before, and their leader has a very high approval rating.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Before he launched into pro-Russia and pro- China talking points.
HINKLE: The more America supports real terrorist entities like Israel, real terrorist countries like Ukraine, the more that we strengthen our actual enemies.
Most of what is said about Vladimir Putin in the mainstream press is just factually not true.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Jackson has become a darling of the Kremlin and Russian state TV. He's made multiple trips to Russia this year.
HINKLE: We're in Tokmak, which is just a few kilometers away from the front line in --
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But Jackson wasn't always like this. Just a few years ago, he was a soft spoken Southern California kid, a Bernie Sanders supporter, who even ran for city council as a progressive.
O'SULLIVAN: Why do you think the Russians like you so much?
HINKLE: I speak truth.
O'SULLIVAN: You are, in some ways, the quintessential American man, right? You're a surfer guy, California. So, for the Russians or the Chinese to have somebody like you, to go over there and basically shit all over America --
HINKLE: No, no, no. No shitting on America. I love this country. I love the people. I just want it to be better.
O'SULLIVAN: Is there not a way to do that without having to fly back and forth to Moscow and seem to be embracing authoritarian regimes?
HINKLE: Well, they're far less authoritarian than the United States.
O'SULLIVAN: Come on, man.
HINKLE: Ultimately --
O'SULLIVAN: You'd come --
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): -- we are -- no, no, ultimately, I live in the generation where for the first time there's going to be a lower standard of living than the previous generation. That's not good and it's --
O'SULLIVAN: And, I mean, I get -- I hear all that. You can't genuinely say that people in Russia and people in China have more liberties than people in the United States.
HINKLE: Well, there's no free speech.
O'SULLIVAN: You have a lot of free speech.
HINKLE: Really?
O'SULLIVAN: You do.
HINKLE: You think I have free speech?
O'SULLIVAN: You don't think you have free speech?
HINKLE: No. I mean, what's the public square today? It's obviously social media.
O'SULLIVAN: You have 3 million followers on X. You can post whatever you want. You're hosting events here. How do you not have free speech? What part of your speech is being curtailed?
HINKLE: Well, it's very simple. It's very simple. It's very simple. Yes, I have 3 million followers on X, but what about Instagram? I've been banned. YouTube, I've been banned. I was banned from Raya, a dating site.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Jackson's bans might have something to do with his repeated sharings of hateful posts and his celebrations of violence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, the full report is on Donie -- with Donie O'Sullivan. Don't miss the whole story. That's "Misinfonation: The Lost Left," Sunday night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern Pacific. It is fascinating.
That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
