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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
House Republican Confronted Over "Offensive" Post About Haitians; Interview With Rep. Steven Horsford (D-NV); Trump Rips FBI, Suggests Iran Tied To Assassination Attempts; Harris, Trump Pitch Dueling Economic Visions, As They Campaign In Battleground States; Hurricane Helene Expected Make Landfall as Cat 4 Storm. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired September 25, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I want to show you these graphics because the storm is looking very impressive on satellite, but not only is it growing and strengthening in intensity, it's growing in size as well. And that's going to be key to the storm because we will feel the impacts well outside of the center and it's also going to be responsible for pushing this threat of hurricane storm force winds inland, as well as the potential for life -- a catastrophic and dangerous flooding that we anticipate here across central portions of Georgia in to South Carolina as well.
Erin, this is so kind of a triple punch here. We've got storm surge, catastrophic winds, and extreme rainfall according to the National Weather Service in Atlanta.
Erin, lot's to think about.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Really terrifying for so many people.
Derek, thank you very much -- that image and just looking at how high that water is going to go in just hours. Thanks for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:48]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, it started with the former president, but now the ugliness is coming from inside the House. How one congressman amplified hateful campaign against Haitian immigrants, what top Republicans are saying in his defense and what the chair of the Congressional Black Caucus plans to do about it, keeping them honest.
Also tonight, the two candidates, they're dueling economic messages and the former president's claims about the two attempts on his life and Iran.
Plus, the very latest on Hurricane Helene now forecast to reach Category 4, heading for the Florida Panhandle.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight keeping them honest with politics specifically the brand of it, which runs on falsehoods and fear, and frankly racism.
The latest example, Louisiana Republican Congressman Clay Higgins, this guy. Now, he doesn't have much of a record of accomplishment in the House, but today, he certainly got noticed.
This is what he posted on social media, quoting the congressman now, "Lol, these Haitians are wild, eating pets, vudu, nastiest country in the western hemisphere, cults, slapstick gangsters, but damned if they don't feel all sophisticated now, filing charges against our president and VP. All these thugs better get their mind right and their ass out of our country before January 20th".
So, a couple of things to unpack here, Vudu, by the way is a streaming service that's and by Fandango. He obviously meant the religion, voodoo, but just knows nothing about it.
More importantly, he is slurring an entire country and everyone from that country -- men, women, and children -- people who are in this country legally, and Americans of Haitian dissent.
He seems particularly riled up that a Haitian-American organization would have the temerity to have taken legal action. "Damned if they don't feel all sophisticated now", he tweeted.
Late today, he took down that tweet and House Speaker Johnson said that Higgins regrets the post.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): He was approached on the floor by colleagues who said that was offensive. He went to the back. I just talked to him about it. He said he went to the back and he prayed about it, and he regretted it and he pulled the post down.
That's what you want a gentleman to do. I'm sure he probably regrets some of the language he used, but, you know, we move forward. We believe in redemption around here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Yes. He went to the back and he prayed real hard about it and he regrets it.
Nevertheless, House Democrats brought a motion to censure the congressmen with this objection from Majority Leader Steve Scalise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For what purpose is gentleman from Louisiana seek recognition.
REP. STEVE SCALISE (D-LA): First of all, the tweet has been deleted already and removed, but I object to --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For what purpose -- SCALISE: I object to the motion and if we want to go through every kind of tweet from the other side we'll be happy to do it and you will be called.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gentleman has not been recognized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The censure motion has been pushed back until after the election. Now, Clay Higgins' language might surprise you, but it's not difficult to figure out the source of his inspiration about Haitians eating their pets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats. They're eating -- they're eating the pets of the people that live there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And of course, no evidence. That has been debunked. But again, these are not original ideas Congressman Higgins is coming up with, like when he said they better get their asses out of the country, we all know where that came from too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Do you think Springfield will ever be the same? I don't think -- the fact is and I'll say it now, you have to get them the hell out. You have to get them out. I'm sorry, get them out -- can't have it, can't have it. They destroyed it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And before Congressman Higgins was in Congress, he was in local law enforcement in Louisiana. That's right, he had the power to arrest people.
And if you read up on him, you'll see he has something of a track record on outrageous statements and other things. As the co-founder of Harvard University's Niemann Media Lab discovered, the congressman has cited in a newspaper article in "The Bayou Brief" back in 1992, when he was voting for former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke to be the governor of Louisiana.
Now back then, there were -- a lot of people who said they just didn't believe the Duke was the racist he was, being made out to be in the liberal media and they were going to vote for him, but apparently not Clay Higgins, he knew full well and voted for him anyway.
He told a reporter, "Regardless of the fact that David's a homeboy and all that the boy is a Nazi and that's a real problem," and then the reporter noted that Mr. Higgins voted for Mr. Duke anyway, in the governor's race. Joining us now is Congressman Steven Horsford, a Democrat of Nevada and chair of the Congressional Black Caucus. Congressman, thanks for being with us.
When you read this post from the congressman, what was your initial reaction?
[20:05:29]
REP. STEVEN HORSFORD (D-NV): Anderson, thank you for having me on. When I read it, I thought of the Haitian immigrants, Haitian Americans all throughout this country, those in Springfield and in my district in Nevada and all across the country who are living today in fear, who feel harassed, who feel singled out and targeted by the former President Donald Trump, by Senator JD Vance, by Representative Higgins.
And it's this type of racist intolerance, this divisive rhetoric that must stop. It's why I have filed a resolution to censure Representative Higgins. It's time to turn the page as the Vice President Kamala Harris has said against this divisiveness that pits one group of Americans against another.
COOPER: Congressman Higgins has told CNN that he stood by his comments adding quote, "It's all true. I can put up another controversial post tomorrow. If you want me to. I mean, we do have freedom of speech. I'll say what I want." He also said, "It's not a big deal to me, it's like something stuck to the bottom of my boot. Just scrape it off and move on with my life."
Speaker Johnson claims, he prayed about it and regretted it and took it down. Maybe he had another talk with Jesus and decided he's standing by it.
The censure motion, is that -- that's now off the table until after the election. I mean, is that kind of finished?
HORSFORD: No it's not and it's not about the next election, it's about the fact that this type of divisive, racially charged hateful rhetoric needs to stop right now. There are children who are Haitian immigrants who are Haitian-Americans who do not feel safe going to school because they are targeted right now.
My colleagues Representative Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick and Fredrica Wilson and Ayanna Pressley and Maxwell Frost, who are members of the Haitian Caucus, joined with the Congressional Black Caucus and other members, just earlier this week to push back on JD Vance and these made-up stories, that it's not even true, what they're saying.
And it's time for this to end. But guess what, it's this type of divisiveness that is actually tearing our country apart.
COOPER: I understand that according to sources who witnessed the interaction you and Congressman Higgins had a heated exchange on the House Floor. Can you say what did he tell you when you talked to him? HORSFORD: Well, I was supporting my colleagues who were trying to compel him to understand how his words are affecting the lives of actual people today. People who contribute to our communities, who are entrepreneurs, who are nurses and doctors, people who don't deserve to be targeted.
Let's just start with that. They didn't do anything wrong. And I asked him specifically to remove his post and he's like, I'm going to pray about it. What do you need to pray about? Just do what is right and stop this hateful rhetoric that is causing people to feel targeted. He told me no, and that is when I said, if you refuse, I will take this to the floor, we will move for a resolution to censure you, and that is exactly what we did.
And sadly, the Republican leadership were more focused about silencing me than holding him accountable. And he used his official platform, the property of the House of Representatives, he probably thought he was posting on Truth Social but in fact, he told everyone exactly what it is he believes.
We are going to follow through on this. It is not about the next election. It is about every day people in America feeling targeted. Today, it's the Haitians. Who will it be tomorrow? Will it be you?
COOPER: You know, what's interesting about this is, I mean, in the statement to CNN, he certainly seems sort of proud of this, or his bluster, which is -- he's made a career of it when he was in law enforcement and sort of being the tough-talking sheriff guy, despite moving around a lot from different departments.
But this is just -- I mean, there's a long history of this in this country and in many countries of demonizing immigrants, of I mean, it was Irish, it was Italians in the early days of mass immigration to the United States.
I mean, there have been -- there have been people like this throughout our history who have said exactly these same things. It's remarkable that this continues, that in this day and age, this still -- and I guess it can use because it works. It works to demonize a group like Haitians. Clearly, Donald Trump thinks it works, JD Vance thinks it works because that's why they're continuing to do it. And this guy thinks that works too.
[20:10:30]
HORSFORD: Well, the majority of Americans are ready to turn the page against this. The Vice President Kamala Harris has said it time again, we're tired of people dividing us, targeting one community, and pitting them against another. We want to build up our communities, not tear them apart and I know, Haitian immigrants, I know Haitian- Americans in my home state in Nevada and people all across this country who are here, they've been vetted, they've gone through a legal process to be here, it's comprehensive. They have children who are trying to attend school. There are nurses and teachers and first responders in our community. It is this type of racist, hateful, intolerant rhetoric that must end whether it is against Haitian immigrants or anyone else. We should be against all forms of hate.
And what is so astounding to me is that Republicans in Congress just don't get it. We're over them and we're ready to turn the page and move our country forward towards one that represents a multiracial, multigenerational society that reflects all of us and the contributions that we make.
COOPER: Congressman Steven Horsford, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
Joining us now, CNN political commentators Ashley Allison and David Urban. Also, "Washington Post" national columnist, Philip Bump.
Ashley, what does it tell you about the climate right now that a sitting congressman felt comfortable enough to post something like this. And apparently stand by what he said?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's a reminder that racism and hatred is still very much alive and well in our country. It's also a reminder that there is a leadership vacuum in the Republican Party right now.
And I say that because the reason why he had the gall to post that and then have to side whether or not he was going to take it down is because his leader was the one who came up with it, or his leader's running mate rather came up with it.
And so, when you don't have leaders who tell you what is right and wrong, you end up with situations like this.
Now, the thing that is so unsettling about this is you mentioned in your piece, Anderson, is that this man was law enforcement. This man had the power -- he carried a gun. He had the power to walk in the street and enforce the law and most likely we have the justice system behind him. He now can make laws that are rooted in racism and discrimination.
And so, in this moment there is an opportunity in November for us to decide which direction we want this country to go in. You do not have to like every policy of Kamala Harris, but at least Kamala Harris wants to be in conversation about the direction -- the positive direction, and work together right and left, Black and White.
So, there's an opportunity here to begin to turn the page. It's not going to end the book of racism in our country, but there is a chance to turn the page and say enough with this nonsense, enough with this racism. Let's move forward to a better day in this country.
COOPER: I mean, Philip, again, there's a reason why this is being repeated by Trump and Vance. I mean, there's a long history of this. It does tap into something that's very primal and very, I guess effective. PHILIP BUMP, NATIONAL COLUMNIST, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes, I mean, the Trump campaign has long been, I mean, his motto literally make America great again, is a call back to America used to be better, used to be different.
And it's very much -- there is an unsubtle appeal to White American families getting together or not having to worry about immigrants in the community and so on and so forth. That has always been an undercurrent to his politics and something that he reinforces, as we've seen polling as well.
I think this incident is fascinating, in part, because we've reached this point where unless you say the N-word people like, well, I'm not sure if that's racist or not. I mean, like, you can't -- you don't get much more explicitly racist than what just happened there. And yet, Republican leadership isn't willing to hold him to account.
I mean, even just a few years ago, we saw Steve King from Iowa, who was this just sort of dabbling and White nationalist mean you sort of ahead of the trend, if you will, in the GOP. And he's held to account by Republican leaders in and eventually lost his GOP primary, which seemed like a sort of rejection by the party.
But now of course you have Donald Trump and you have JD Vance and there's a poll came out yesterday from KFF, three in 10 immigrants say, they feel as though their lives have been made worse because of Donald Trump's rhetoric.
COOPER: David, I mean is, you're a Republican does this -- is this -- who is this guy? I mean, is this something that the leadership should be standing by?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, Anderson. Look, the guy -- it's a clownish remark. It's hateful, despicable, full stop, right? There's no defending that remark. It is the worst of America. It's not the best of America, it's the worst and he's a member of Congress. He should be ashamed for putting it out.
Listen, there are legitimate concerns about immigration, about illegal immigration, not legal immigration, but illegal immigration. There are concerns about the town of Springfield being overwhelmed, their school district not being able to do their legitimate concerns. We should have discussions about it.
[20:15:23]
Here on Nantucket, a tiny island, about 15,000 year-around residents. This past last week, the ICE came over and took four sexual predators. Gotaways who are here on the island, raped two kids, two children were raped by these gotaways, sexually assaulted, two others -- two other gentlemen who had sexually assaulted women here on the island were taken away, four gotaways on this tiny island, picked up and plucked and taken away by ICE.
It is a real problem in communities across America. We should be having a full-throated discussion about it in an intellectual way, in a constructive way. There is a problem, we need to figure out how to get illegal immigrants out of the country. They should not be here, right?
Legal immigration is a great thing. We're not going to deport everybody who's here. I know that's a plan, but we need to think about there are lots of violent people here in America who are committing crimes, right now.
And if the congressman wanted to focus on that, Laken Riley, there's a long list every day we can go through and talk about real incidents. We're not making things up and demonizing an entire group of people --
COOPER: Well, yes, as you know, actually violent crime is down, you know, car robberies, shoplifting has been up -- violent crime is down.
URBAN: Anderson, all I'm saying is --
COOPER: And -- and as you know, also, migrants generally commit -- do not commit crimes at the same level -- commit crimes at a lower level -- than the US population.
URBAN: Anderson -- I'm not -- I'm saying it is an issue in the immigrant community here in Nantucket of two young children raped, two other women, were sexually assaulted. I'm telling you it's a problem here. I've talked to folks in the community. They are concerned, they're nervous. There may be other folks like that here.
So while it may not be a big deal for lots of people it's a big deal in lots of different communities of color across America as well.
COOPER: Yes, Ashley, what do you make of that?
ALLISON: Look, what David just described is awful. I don't know those cases and we do have an immigration policy, but Republicans don't want to have that conversation because if they did, then JD Vance and Donald Trump would not be talking about the lie about immigrants eating pets, but that's what they're doing. They are not setting a -- they're saying deport them all.
So, let's have this conversation, but we have to have it in good faith. We have to have it and actually let the win-win bills come up that a conservative senator wants to pass, that your candidate doesn't kill the bill if you actually want to have immigration.
So I respect David, but I don't take the remarks that are actually being applied. That maybe how you feel, but that is not how the leader of your party is moving right now. And so, what we need in this moment is to hold him accountable.
There was an opportunity for it not to be the person that would spread these lies, but that's who you all went with. So it's kind of hard to say, we want to have a policy discussion, but then we're here talking about lies and hate.
COOPER: Yes.
URBAN: We need to do it. We all need to do better.
COOPER: We've got to take a break and just ahead, a live update on the hurricane that's heading for Florida and could be a Category 4 storm soon.
Later, a special report, kids on politics, what the voters of tomorrow make of the campaign today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the first word that pops into your head when you hear the name Kamala Harris?
UNIDENTIFIED KIDO: Liar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the first word that pops into your head when you hear Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED KIDO: Pure evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:22:28]
COOPER: More from the campaign trail now, the former president today said he's going back to Butler, Pennsylvania, scene of first of two attempts on his life.
Yesterday, his campaign said he was briefed by the office of the director of National Intelligence about "real and specific threats from Iran to assassinate him in an effort to destabilize and sow chaos in the United States".
Today, he talked about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: As you know, there have been two assassination attempts on my life that we know of and they may or may not involve but possibly do Iran but I don't really know, I can't be sure because in the first case in Butler, Pennsylvania, a great place -- and we're going back to Butler by the way, we're going to go back and finish our speech.
The FBI has been unable to open the three potentially foreign based apps and at the second case, the assassin, had six cell phones in his car, yet the FBI has likewise been unable to penetrate their guard.
They break into apps all the time. They had no problem breaking into the apps of the J6 hostages.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: He's referring there to people now jailed in connection with the attack on the US Capitol, they are not hostages. They've been tried in a court of law and found guilty.
He also said that if he were president, he threatened to blow around cities, "to smithereens" if Iran were to harm what he called a leading presidential candidate, himself.
Perspective now from Andrew McCabe, former deputy director of the FBI, is there first of all, any specific evidence that suggest that there's a direct connection between Trump's assassination attempts and Iran at this point.
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely none that we've heard of. And we do know that the FBI and the director of National Intelligence just in the last few days, briefed the Trump campaign on an ongoing what we call threat stream, a concern that the Iranians are still interested in harming the former president.
So, that is really a very separate thing from these two very local solitary, not particularly adept guys who have tried it so far, so the Butler shooter was, you know, got pretty close to what he was trying to achieve. And of course, the gentleman at the golf course did not.
COOPER: It's amazing to me, I mean, Trump obviously, has long history of being very critical of the FBI and the Justice Department claiming today that they are "mishandling and downplaying" the investigation into his recent assassination attempt in Florida and suggesting that I guess that they're not trying hard enough to break into these cell phones.
It just seems ridiculous. I want to play what Attorney General Garland said yesterday.
[20:25:19]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MERRICK GARLAND, US ATTORNEY GENERAL: The attempted assassination on the former president was a heinous act. I'm grateful that he is safe and as I said, immediately after the event, the Justice Department would spare no resource to ensure accountability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: As someone who's been obviously the focus of Trump's attacks before. I mean, do you think they have a negative impact on the FBI and Justice Department's, credibility, their functioning?
MCCABE: Well they do. Now, to be very clear, they don't have a negative impact on how the FBI does its work. And I am a hundred percent confident that the FBI is pursuing every lead and pushing the investigations of both of those attempted assassinations as far as they can.
And to his credit, the attorney general has been incredibly consistent about his concerns about addressing political violence. So, there's no effect there, but the other -- but there is an effect in terms of how the public perceives what the FBI is dealing. For instance, when the former president consistently lies about FBI capabilities and FBI intents and says things about the FBI being political.
Those are falsehoods but they have a deleterious effect on people's perception of the way that the bureau and the department do their work and that undermines the effectiveness of these two critical institutions that we rely on to keep us safe. So he is harming America, not just the FBI when he does that.
COOPER: Trump, as I have mentioned, I mean, he claimed that the FBI -- while the FBI "had no problem breaking to the apps of the J6 hostages" as he falsely calls them. He says the FBI hasn't been able to open certain apps to the man who attempted to assassinate him in Florida.
I assume -- I mean -- would he know that with the FBI had told him that as part of a briefing, is that something that they would disclose to him?
MCCABE: It's possible that they would have shared that sort of an investigative update with him as he is the victim of both of these crimes. However, his case comments has suggestions that they're not working hard enough or they're not applying the full scope of their capability because they don't like him is absolutely absurd.
It shouldn't surprise anyone that the former president who, as I understand it, doesn't even use e-mail, isn't really aware of the complexity of trying to enter a foreign communications apps that utilize things like end-to-end encryption and very strong passwords.
It is not an easy science, it's one that the FBI spends an enormous amount of time on and not to beat a dead horse here, but the Bureau has been arguing for over a decade, has been warning the country and Congress about the seriousness of this very problem, which they've historically referred to as going dark.
That as encryption gets better and communications applications routinely apply end-to-end encryption. You get more and more spaces that are beyond the reach of lawful court orders. And so, it is harder for every law enforcement entity to try to access even with court authorization, you cannot access communications if they're adequately protected in some of these apps.
That's a big problem, but it's obviously when the president doesn't understand.
COOPER: Andrew McCabe, thank you.
Both candidates talked about their plans for the economy today. Speaking in North Carolina, the former president promised to lower corporate tax rates on companies making products domestically and continued to push for higher tariffs, which he believes other countries not importers and consumers would pay.
He also claimed Vice President Harris, "destroyed San Francisco," called her a communist, and called her the tax queen.
Speaking in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, she laid out her own economic plan, which is having middle-class tax cuts and tax credits. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Under my plan, more than 100 million Americans will get a middle-class tax break that includes $6,000.00 for new parents during the first year of their child's life.
To help families cover everything from car seats to cribs.
We will also help first-time homebuyers just get their foot in the door with the $25,000.00 down-payment assistance.
On average, it costs about $40,000.00 to start a new business, but currently, the tax deduction for startup is only $5,000.00, which is why as president, I will make the startup deduction ten times richer and we will raise it from $5,000.00 to $50,000.00.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The vice president also sat down with MSNBC's Stephanie Ruhle. The interview that just aired. Here's her answer. The former president's has promise to women Monday night to be in his words 'their protector'.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: So, Donald Trump is also the person who said women should be punished for exercising a decision that they rightly should be able to make about their own body and their future.
He also then chose three members of the United States Supreme Court, who did as he intended under the protections of Roe v. Wade. And now, in state after state, you see laws being passed that do punish women.
So look, I think the thing about Donald Trump is that you know, I don't think the women of America need him to say he's going to protect them. The women of America need him to trust them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:30:51]
COOPER: Back with the panel. Joining us is Republican Strategist Erin Perrine. Erin, I'm wondering what your reaction to the vice president's comments are there. And I mean, do you think that message resonates more with women than Trump's?
ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think that her message there is really inconclusive for women because she still is yet to really get into the policy specifics about what she plans with this economic agenda. Yes, she has talked about family tax credits. She has talked about home ownership, but how is she going to get there and how is she going to build a coalition to be able to get it done? Because while she has talked about wanting to eliminate the filibuster, it still exists in the United States Senate, and the American people, a quarter of them are still looking for her policy positions on whether or not they're going to be able to support her.
So right now, she needs to be able to also talk about the coalition she thinks she can build to make this actually happen for the American people. Unlike Donald Trump who has did there and renegotiated trade deals internationally. We saw NAFTA get renegotiated to USMCA under him. We saw the tax cuts and Jobs Act under him. We saw that he did pursue tariffs as well as a means to try and protect American jobs and the American economy. He was very focused on bringing jobs home to the United States.
So while Kamala may talk -- Kamala may talk in platitudes towards women, what women want and a woman like me would want is to know the specifics of her policies she is going to pursue.
COOPER: Ashley?
ALLISON: Well, I think what the vice president said is right on. We don't need Donald Trump to be our protector; we need him to stay out of our business and to trust us to make decisions with our body. And I think the vice president has been very clear on that. The person who has been unclear on where he would actually be on abortion is Donald Trump when he someday is going to support the Florida abortion ban and then some days, he's not. Some days, he's going to make people pay for IVF and some days, he's not.
So, I think he's been quite inconsistent and that is why you see the ongoing gender gap in terms of women having more support and more trust in Kamala Harris. But to the economy part, I think that the vice president has laid out her plan. Donald Trump has concepts of plans. He even said he has concepts of plans on the debate stage. And so, I think that when you are someone like myself, like an entrepreneur, and you hear about the tax break or you hear about the first-time home credit -- the tax credit you would get for buying a home, but you also hear about how she's going to fight for the middle class and how she comes about from the middle-class herself and her own lived experience makes her the type of fighter that we want.
I think that the American people are beginning and should start to resonate. I also think though she has to continue to acknowledge that they did inherit a very unstable economy because of COVID.
COOPER: Yeah.
ALLISON: But unstable because of the management of it, and that things are still hard and that she can make things continue to get better.
COOPER: Philip, I mean, obviously, the economy is an issue that I mean, you look at the polls time after time, Donald Trump ranked much more -- much higher on the economy, on economic matters than Kamala Harris does. I mean, the gap is really wide. She's got to narrow that gap. Has she done enough?
BUMP: Well, she actually has narrowed the gap in some recent polls. There's an AP poll that came out last week, and there is another one that was released this week, which suggested it was closer than what we might have expected.
COOPER: Still large, very -- double-digits I think.
BUMP: Single-digits actually in AP poll, which I think is remarkable. And I, you know -- look, I give voters the benefit of the doubt in general. I think though, this idea that voters are looking for a detailed economic plans as fallacy. And I'm back in 2015, Donald Trump said one of the smartest things he has ever said about politics, which is that it's the press that wants policy proposals, not voters. They don't really care about them. I think that's generally true.
And I think this charge that Harris hasn't released a policy agenda is sort of a fig leaf. And I think too it's meant to distract from the fact that Donald Trump's policy agenda is basically tariffs. And he only really started talking about that when everyone was focused on Project 2025, he didn't do these broad sweeping tariffs in the same way that he's promised when he was actually president.
So, I think that American voters, one of the questions I have is, are they saying that they're more interested in Harris' economic agenda and I think she'll do better a job because they're more prone to vote for Harris? Is -- are we getting the horse before the cart instead of the cart before the horse on this? And I think it's really unclear and I think that a lot of this is just sort of jockeying.
COOPER: President Biden was on the view earlier today, and I want to play something that he said about his vice president.
[20:35:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And as vice president, there wasn't a single thing that I did that she couldn't do. And so, I was able to delegate her responsibility on everything from foreign policy to domestic policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Ashley, I mean, do you think -- I mean, first of all, it's interesting how little we see President Biden these days. I mean, it's kind of remarkable when you think, I mean, how much has changed. Do you think it hurts Kamala Harris to have President Biden out there, if she -- does she -- does she gain much by having him out there?
ALLISON: I think the president resonates with a certain constituency, particularly white males in Philadelphia -- excuse me, in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin, in those blue wall states, he was polling better than the vice president was. So having him go out and speak to her in certain areas, I think is strategic. I also think the reason why we don't see as much as Joe Biden because he's not running for president and typically in election cycles, the president. He still governing and still doing the job of the president, but he's giving space for the vice president to create her own narrative, to create her own policy agenda. So, I think that in some places, having the president out there is good and then other places, she is the one running and she needs to be out there communicating what her vision is.
COOPER: Yeah. Ashley Allison, Philip Bump, Erin Perrine, thanks so much.
ALLISON: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up, next the latest on Hurricane Helene and the final preparations underway before it makes landfall. It is potentially one of the largest storms in a long time. Also tonight, a 360 Special Report, a conversation with 10- and 11-year-old students across the country to see if the future generation of voters is already polarized about our elections.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:40:45]
COOPER: The latest now on the potential devastating impact of Hurricane Helene now expected to make landfall tomorrow in Florida as a Cat 4 storm. Preparation is underway for a big storm surge and damaging winds. In Tampa, roads are backed up as residents evacuated ahead of the storm. Chad Myers joins me now at the CNN Weather Center in Atlanta.
So, this has gotten worse now since last time we talked 24 hours ago, where do you expect the worst impacts to be?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It really still looks like it's going to be the big bend of Florida, way up on top up there, just to the south of Tallahassee. But Tallahassee is going to take pretty much a direct blow from an eye wall or at least very, very close. So will Valdosta, Georgia and you are thinking, wait, Georgia? How can that be across the state line? This is going to hold together. This is going to stay a Category 2 Hurricane at least for about 100 miles inland.
So what we have right now, this is eight o'clock advisory. 85 five miles per hour and that's what we were at five o'clock. Let me be honest. This is probably not an 85-mile-per-hour storm right now, probably 75 or 80. It has flattened out over the past three hours. That is absolutely great because it could be a 95-mile-per-hour storm, but it's not there. We have two airplanes in the storm right now, hurricane hunters looking at it, not seeing it yet.
But I think it's going to recover as the night falls, the sunsets, everything kind of calms down, the sheer calms down. And then the forecast comes through as it comes all the way up to the west of Tampa at 1:30. Now, this it does not mean Tampa is going to get a Category 4 wind. Category 4 is only going to be confined to that eye wall itself coming up here into the big bend of Florida. And then really maybe Valdosta, you get a Category 2 and even up toward Atlantic, you might get a Category 1 gust. That's kind of how it works.
These -- the big number you hear, 130, 135, say very small confined area. But this is a wide storm with big impact. We are going to have hurricane-force winds, we are going to have a storm surge of 20 feet right where our Derek Van Dam is standing right now. And so, this is going to be a big impactful storm wind, tropical-storm-force winds over the entire state of Florida, hurricane force winds right there into the big bend.
But look at the wind all the way into Georgia, all the way into Asheville, Charlotte. You're going to see wind gusts over 80 miles per hour at times. So it's a lot of rain coming down as well. Could be a foot of rain, a foot of rain in the mountains, Anderson, that's going to cause significant flash flooding too.
COOPER: Yeah. Chad Myers, thanks so much. Let's go to Derek Van Dam, who joins us now live. Where are you and how bad could it get there?
VAN DAM: All right. Anderson, we are getting our first taste of what Hurricane Helene could bring to this area. We are in Apalachicola and the Florida big bend area. And we are getting this first taste and I want to make this pretty quick because the lightning has really picked up and there's actually some signs on the local radar that there could be a waterspout just off St. George Island, which is very near to where I'm standing.
But the National Weather Service from Tallahassee, very close to here, they look over this area using very strong verbiage, saying that it is increasingly likely that storm surge will become catastrophic or unsurvivable near Apalachee Bay, which is very near where I'm at. Now, if this storm surge measurement tool is any sign or indicator of what's to be expected here with a landfall in Category 4 storm, then we need to plan for the worst. This shading of blue is the storm surge inundation of a Category 4 Hurricane. This shading of yellow as a Category 3. This shading of red represents the water levels for a Category 2 storm here in Apalachicola.
What we are forecasting is 10 to 15 feet, where I'm standing, and that is twice as high as how I'm standing right now. This is just going to be an incredibly powerful storm, one that talking to local residents here, they fear could be one of the worst storms that they've experienced. And the reason this area is so vulnerable is because of the shallow nature of the Gulf of Mexico, which is directly over my shoulder. Anderson, you could go out 50 miles from here and still only have ten feet of water underneath you. Then that shelf drops off very quickly. So when you get a large expanding storm like this, well, it's going to push up that water once it reaches the shelf and it's going to inundate these very low lying areas like the Apalachee Bay region where I'm located now.
[20:45:00]
Now, this storm is not only strengthening, it is also growing in size and by the time this makes landfall, it will have tropical storm force winds extend over 400 miles from its center. This could rival some of the largest storms in U.S. history. Anderson?
COOPER: Wow. Derek Van Dam, I'm glad you're there. Thanks very much. We'll check in with you throughout the next couple of days. Coming up next, future voters and the state political polarization in America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHELEY LANDRUM, PSYCHOLOGIST AND ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY: Would your family let you go over to somebody's house who is really supportive of Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LANDRUM: No, they wouldn't?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LANDRUM: And why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because like my mom and dad don't like Donald Trump at all, not a single bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: As we all know, we live in very politically polarized times. The 360 team wondered if the division is affecting future generations of voters as well.
[20:50:00]
So, we decided to try to find out from them directly and teamed up with a renowned political scientist from Stanford and a psychologist at Arizona State University to design and conduct a study looking at polarization among fourth graders. Our experts asked us to find three schools, one from a town that went heavily for President Biden in the last election, one that went big for Former President Trump in 2020, and one in an area about evenly split.
So we ended up in blue New Jersey, red Texas, and purple Arizona. The researchers spoke to 80 kids over the course of more than 40 hours. CNN got permission from all the students' parents or guardians before talking with them, obviously, and kids offered their unvarnished opinions of the candidates. It was fascinating.
The experts first spoke to students in the spring before Biden dropped out of the race, then returned in the last two weeks to see how things that have change with Kamala Harris. The study found that some kids as young as ten are already extremely polarized. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LANDRUM: What's the first word that pops into your head when you hear the name Kamala Harris?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Liar.
LANDRUM: What's the first word that pops into your head when you hear Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pure evil.
LANDRUM: Which one do you think is more selfish?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like selfish, probably her.
LANDRUM: Kamala Harris?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, because girls are a little bit dramatic sometimes.
LANDRUM: And do you think that people in the United States are ready to have another four years of Donald Trump if he's re-elected?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LANDRUM: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I feel like all he does is like complain and like yell.
COOPER (voice-over): The researchers found that opinions of the candidates from these 10- and 11-year-olds spanned a spectrum as wide as America.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump, he has given his life and his heart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She even shook hands with Mr. Trump to greet him before the debate, start of the debate, which is pretty kind when you're going against your opponent.
COOPER (voice-over): The study was designed by Psychologist Asheley Landrum, and Political Scientist Shanto Iyengar. Landrum conducted all the interviews and showed the students pictures of the candidates, and asked them questions like --
LANDRUM: Which one of these two do you think is more honest?
Which one of these two do you think would keep us safer if they were elected?
COOPER (voice-over): Landrum also showed them an emoji chart and a feelings chart, and asked them questions like this.
LANDRUM: I'm going to ask you how much you like each of these two candidates.
COOPER (voice-over): The questions were phrased to promote more open- ended conversations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I live in an apartment, I want to get a house, but it's hard.
COOPER (voice-over): One thing that the kids talked a lot about, Former President Trump's legal issues. LANDRUM: How much do you like Donald Trump, using that scale?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably -- Donald Trump probably hates me for doing this. So --
(LAUGH)
LANDRUM: You really don't like Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, come on, he went to like jail, I mean.
COOPER (voice-over): To be clear, while Trump was booked and released from jail, he didn't spend time behind bars. 32 percent of all students brought up the former president's legal issues. In general, kids who said they'd support Donald Trump did not see his legal problems as a disqualifier.
LANDRUM: Hi, how are you doing today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good.
COOPER (voice-over): This was in May, before Trump's conviction?
LANDRUM: Should he be president again, still?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. Like we can say, for example, JFK, he cheated on his wife, but like people still loved him. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, both slave owners -- being a slave owner is really bad. It's a really bad thing, but they still had two terms. So, I think even though Trump has done bad stuff, he still deserves to run for president.
LANDRUM: Just curious --
COOPER (voice-over): And now.
LANDRUM: Which one of these two candidates do you think is more likely to do bad things?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Convicted felon against a liar, oh, who do I pick? I'd say Trump because he's a convicted felon.
LANDRUM: Do you think it's OK for somebody who is a convicted felon to become president of the United States?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
COOPER (voice-over): Many children were also very aware of the first assassination attempt on Former President Trump.
LANDRUM: And which one do you think is tougher? Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he did survive a gunshot.
LANDRUM: And does anything else make them tougher, do you think, or was it mostly his reaction to that? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's also pretty brave. I mean, if I was president, I was talking in front of a lot of people, I would be really scared.
LANDRUM: And why would something like that happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is like a lot of cruel people in world and stuff, and like whenever something like that happens to them, they will want to take it out on somebody else that they don't like.
LANDRUM: Yeah. And how does that make you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kind of like nervous because like, you never know, one day it could be you.
COOPER (voice-over): For Vice President Harris, students from both schools had a lot to say about her race and gender.
[20:55:00]
LANDRUM: So, do you think it matters more to voters that she's a woman or that she's a person of color?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't really like care about like what color she is. I just care like the personality and like what she wants -- what she wants like to do.
LANDRUM: Do you think people would be bothered at all by the fact that Kamala Harris is, you know, half black and half Indian American?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, because Barack Obama was elected twice, two terms, served all eight years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be good for us to have a black woman as president for the first time in history.
LANDRUM: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But my vote is kind of still on Trump.
COOPER (voice-over): 86 percent of all students our researcher talked to thought America was ready for a woman president of color.
LANDRUM: And do you think people in the U.S. are ready for a woman president?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. Because there hasn't been a president woman.
LANDRUM: Yes, there hasn't been one yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that she's a woman and she's black, that could help kids who are like her are different feel a lot more accepted.
COOPER (voice-over): Still, some students had different views about gender. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just feel like boys would probably be better as president. But she's pretty and stuff. But I just don't think a woman would be all right for a president.
LANDRUM: Yeah. So why do you think woman wouldn't be right for president in your view?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think because only boys have been president before and that they would be more stronger.
COOPER (voice-over): Overall, the biggest finding the children in the study were polarized with what researchers called more extreme responses from the blue state kids than the red state kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump, he did bad things. He's like Hitler.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He only wanted to be president, so that he can just control everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump is supporting January 6. Now, I remember that January 6 was a bunch of Republicans believing Trump, I feel like they thought Trump was a God. People got arrested. I think one officer died after -- afterwards. That was a big day.
COOPER (voice-over): The study found that these Democrat-leaning kids were about nine times more likely to express negative emotions about Donald Trump than Republican-leaning kids were about Kamala Harris. Why might that be? Psychologist Asheley Landrum has some ideas.
LANDRUM: So, Donald Trump is a very polarizing figure and it's very possible that the kids are reacting to their parents reacting to Donald Trump being a very different kind of political figure than what we've seen before. So, do the red state kids hold as strong of attitudes? Well, not when we are talking about Kamala Harris, in part that could be because they don't know that much about her.
COOPER (voice-over): Landrum was also curious about how kids saw their peers and the political divide.
LANDRUM: So, do you think that the kids that live in those two houses would be friends with each other?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can.
LANDRUM: They can (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no law breaking that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't matter if you are different by skin color or it doesn't matter if you're different by people, you can still be friends.
COOPER (voice-over): The study found that Republican-leaning kids were more open into visiting a Democrat-supporting household. The Democrat-leaning kids were about five times more likely to say, they would not want to go to a pro-Trump house. LANDRUM: Would they be OK with you going over to somebody's house who is really supportive of President Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LANDRUM: No? And why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we know that he's not -- he's not -- he does not like black people, so you will not -- they will not be happy to see me.
LANDRUM: Would you family let you go over to somebody's house who is really supportive of Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LANDRUM: No, they wouldn't?
(LAUGH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
LANDRUM: And why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because like my mom and dad don't like Donald Trump at all, not a single bit.
LANDRUM: Would you be OK going over to somebody's house whose family really likes Kamala Harris?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it'd be fine. It is just about the personality of the people.
LANDRUM: Would your family be OK if you went over to somebody's house who really liked Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I want to be real over here, he'll -- if I just went over there, (inaudible) I imagine be a good-old argument or a fight, maybe like food fight (ph) or something.
COOPER (voice-over): Let's not forget, this is a study about 10- and 11-year-olds and one issue they all had strong feelings on was Taylor Swift's endorsement of Kamala Harris.
LANDRUM: Are you a fan of Taylor Swift?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ew, no.
LANDRUM: No? So, Taylor Swift said who she wanted to vote for. Do you think that her vote is going to influence the election?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
LANDRUM: Yeah? Why do you think that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Swifties will follow her lead. LANDRUM: Do you think that her endorsement would impact the election?
(LAUGH)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LANDRUM: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
