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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Soon On CNN: First And Only Debate Between Vance, Walz, Soon: Vance, Walz To Debate Hours After Iran's Attack On Israel; Some Trump Allies Urging Him To Commit To Second Debate; Soon On CNN: First & Only Debate Between Vance, Walz. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired October 01, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the young voters that both campaigns desperately want to come out for them will be watching them, seeing how they feel about the specific moments and then we will be talking to them after the debate. See if they've made up their minds and see what moments really stuck out to them -- Jake.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, Phil. Go blue.
We're getting closer to the start of the Vice Presidential Debate. Our coverage continues, right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:01:41]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": The political spotlight is on New York City as vice presidential nominees, JD Vance and Tim Walz are about to confront one another on the debate stage.
We are standing by for the start of what is likely to be a contentious faceoff that could have a unique impact on the 2024 presidential race.
It is debate night in America on this special edition of AC360. Welcome. I'm Anderson Cooper, along with Jake Tapper in New York.
Jake, this debate is taking place in the midst obviously, of a new international crisis.
TAPPER: Anderson, Israel is assessing the damage from this major attack by Iran with nearly 200 missiles spotting above Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and Haifa on the West Coast of Israel. Many of the missiles apparently intercepted by Israel, some by the United States. US officials are monitoring this tense and dangerous conflict.
The vice presidential nominees likely have already been briefed on this as well, as they head into their first and only debate.
We're soon going to see how Ohio Republican Senator JD Vance and Minnesota Democratic Governor Tim Walz would address the situation in the Middle East and other urgent issues as they make the case for themselves and for their running mates, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. This is currently the last agreed to debate of the 2024 presidential campaign, adding to the anticipation tonight with only with election day only five weeks away -- five weeks away today, we're going to get some updates from the Middle East where our correspondents are standing by with new information.
And also, here in New York, our anchors, correspondents, and analysts are counting down to this debate, which you're going to see live on CNN less than an hour from now -- Anderson.
COOPER: And first, this hour, I want to check in with M.J. Lee covering the Harris-Walz campaign. What more are you hearing about from the Walz camp about the governor's strategy tonight?
M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, you know, you'll often hear Harris campaign officials saying that JD Vance and Donald Trump have a casual relationship with the truth, that their statements are sometimes unfounded in reality or facts.
And I am told by sources that preparing for potentially false assertions made by Vance on the debate stage tonight has been a significant part of Walz's debate preparations.
Now, sources will acknowledge that this is not an easy task. There's certainly no clear playbook on how to navigate this. You know, on the one hand, they feel like some real time fact checking can be really important.
But on the other hand, there is a bit of weariness to the governor using his precious time on the debate stage to give unintentionally more oxygen to unfounded claims.
And the bottom line, Anderson, is that Democrats have no idea going into tonight what might end up taking on a life of its own, sort of like Trump's claim after the last debate, that there were Haitian migrants in Ohio eating people's pets, that obviously ended up becoming a story line of its own, and they simply can't predict what that version of tonight might end up being -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, now, let's go to Kristen Holmes new reporting on Senator Vance's strategy. What are you hearing, Kristen?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, one of the things that JD Vance's team has been preparing for these potential deflections from Governor Tim Walz.
His team, his advisers, believe that of Walz's main strengths is disarming his opponent, particularly on the debate stage, using what they call folksy charm that sometimes Walz uses this even for deflections in different answers. They were trying to prepare JD Vance to deal with that.
One of the ways that they did this was by having Tom Emmer, the House Majority Whip who played Tim Walz, who's known him for ten years, study his mannerisms and use them effectively against JD Vance during these mock debates to try and disarm him. [20:05:13]
But I was told by a source earlier today, they believe Vance is "unflappable". Now, as for the former president, I do just want to quickly note that he is getting on his plane shortly to go to Texas. He's expected to watch the debate, watch Vance in real time as he heads down to Texas and respond on social media -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Kristen, thanks very much. Over to Kaitlan Collins now, with a look at the rules for tonight's debate. So, what are the guidelines that the candidates have agreed to follow?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, when these two candidates are on stage tonight here in just an hour from now, for the first time in this face to face that they both have spent weeks preparing for.
Initially, of course, JD Vance thought he would be facing Kamala Harris on the debate stage, and now he will be facing her vice presidential pick in Governor Walz.
But when they're on this stage tonight, expect this to last about 90 minutes. Two commercial breaks that are expected to happen there won't be any cheering from the audience because there will be no audience in the room just like in the last two presidential debates, there is not going to be anyone in there watching except for the moderators and a few reporters.
Their microphones will not be muted, Anderson, but the producers do have the right to shut them off if there's too much overlap in the talking to where you can't actually hear what one of the candidates is saying during this debate.
The other thing you'll notice is neither one of them is going to bring anything on stage with them. No props are allowed, no pre-written notes from either of them on that stage. So, they will have a pad and some paper and a pen to write in case they take notes during that debate.
But as this gets started, they're going to get straight to the questions, Anderson. There's no opening statements that are expected to happen, but you will see closing statements and because Senator Vance won a virtual coin toss that CBS News had the other day, he has elected to deliver his closing statement last.
So, you'll see that back and forth, a very typical debate format where they each have two minutes to answer the question about a minute to respond.
We'll see if that actually sticks. of course, often it gets lost in the shuffle of the actual debate but that is what everyone is going to be watching when the two of these candidates get on stage.
They are pretty experienced debaters actually, even though they've never had certainly this level of scrutiny for any of their debates. And, Anderson, I will note, I am in what is known as the spin room. This is where surrogates come after a debate happens to spin their so- called and respective candidates performance.
I will tell you, it's more like a store spin closet. It's very snug in here. So, once all of these surrogates are in here, because about each half, five on each side, they'll be in here.
One interesting thing to note, Anderson, Senator JD Vance himself will be here in the spin room after that debate tonight. So, well hear from him how he thinks he did -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Kaitlan, thanks very much. Back with the team here in New York. Let's talk about the vulnerabilities of each of these people.
First of all, JD Vance, he's obviously gotten a lot of attention for childless cat ladies, got a lot of attention for the cat comments. I just want to take a look at some of those comments he's made about Haitians -- these false stories he's been spreading about Haitians in Springfield, Ohio, and how it sort of evolved over the weeks. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JD VANCE (R) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: I don't know which -- what are the full spate of animals that are being consumed there in Springfield, but I know that geese are certainly among them.
And we've heard reports from a number of constituents on the ground that they have had pets abducted by some of the immigrants there.
The American media totally ignored this stuff until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat memes. If I have to--
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: But it wasn't just a meme.
VANCE: -- if I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that's what I'm going to do, Dana.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, David is this still a vulnerability for him? I mean, obviously, he thinks this works. Do you think it'll be brought up tonight?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I think that they think this is an incendiary thing that will arouse the base that is not participating right now. They're doing better among voters who are on the sidelines and haven't committed to voting. I think this is a strategy. I think it also risks driving people away.
And one of my questions about this debate is, does Walz use that quality of his that sort of, you know neighborly quality of his to have what, you know, sort of a Joseph Welch moment? Welch was the lawyer you'll remember who embarrassed Joseph McCarthy in the 50s. And it really started McCarthy's descent and he said to McCarthy at long last, sir, have you no decency?
He wouldn't say it quite that way, but does he challenge Vance on what they've inflicted on this town in Ohio?
COOPER: One thing we've heard from early on particularly was the whole weird note, idea. Let's play some of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: He's just a strange weird dude.
These guys are just weird.
These guys are creepy and yes, just weird as hell.
These ideas that they're putting out there, they are weird as hell.
It's an observation, and I didn't come up with it. This is a tool, I'm a teacher and you're trying to get things in. This is the emperor's wearing no clothes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:10:05]
COOPER: Obviously, the danger of him using it tonight is something that JD Vance can obviously prepare for.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, right, and I think it's something that actually is super effective on the campaign stump. And it works at, you know, kind of a rally environment.
A debate's a very different format. I think he'd actually be much better off to litigate the substance of like the Haitian migrants eating pets, talking about how that's damaging to a community that's there legally talking about the actual issues and kind of elevating it. That's much better for this format.
But I'm thinking about the fact that Donald Trump is going to be live Truth Socialing this, and watching it in real time. JD Vance knows he has an audience of one.
And so the question is, is he going to play to the general election voters that they actually need to bring over, which means probably not making Donald Trump the happiest on Truth Social or play to the Truth Social viewer watching him.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, the most important thing that you do in the campaign is you pick who your vice president is going to be. And so, you can tell a lot about who the president is by the VP. Donald Trump has picked somebody who's been a flop, somebody who's been an embarrassment, someone who is the least popular vice president and maybe the least popular politician in America, and who has no character, who has no decency, who has no integrity, who has destroyed the lives of Haitian children, who are being ridiculed, whose lives have been negatively impacted by his shenanigans here.
And so, I think Coach Walz has a responsibility tonight to come out and do exactly what David said.
This is not acceptable behavior on the part of anybody in our American life. And I'm very glad that you have someone like Coach Walz who has stood up for underdogs, who stood up for gay kids.
He is used to standing on decency and standing up to bullies and he's got to do it tonight.
COOPER: David, what do you expect?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So, look, I think at the end of the day, the winner or loser will be determined on who represents their principles the best, right? Because nobody's voting for either these gentleman, right, at the end of the day. They're here to defend Kamala Harris' record and her positions and Donald Trump's record and his positions.
So nobody cares about the individuals there. I mean, they'll get into the character, there will be some attacks, I'm sure, on whether you know, with Walz was in Tiananmen Square at the time when this went down and at an army supply closet, you know, and guard duty. There will be -- some of those things will come up. The cats and dogs will come up.
But at the end of the day, Americans want to hear, right, about those bigger issues, the kitchen table issues where immigration, the economy, the big things that they care about at home, that's what they want to hear litigated tonight.
They don't want to hear the personalities. They'll see a little bit of it, that's what I think.
AXELROD: I'm sure you're right that that's what Americans want to hear. But cats and dogs actually was something that Donald Trump said on a debate stage. And it really speaks to that issue of immigration and trying to inflame people with false narratives and conspiracy theories.
And it had an ancillary damage to human beings. The governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine, I applaud him for this. He stood up for the Republican governor, stood up for the city of Springfield, spent time there. The mayor, Republican, stood up for the city. And they don't care. And that that is an issue.
URBAN: That is an issue and look, there's a lot of better ways to talk about it, right, I'd rather talk about the ICE report that just was released on, you know, the gotaways. There are real issues that we could talk about on immigration.
Hopefully we focus on those. There are a lot of bad folks wandering around this country. We don't know where they are, right, right now. And I think, you know, we should we should talk about that. We should have a debate on those kind of substantive issues.
GRIFFIN: And by the way, I'll say, but one thing we haven't talked about is Donald Trump's the oldest candidate for president in modern history, and this is one of the least qualified vice presidential candidates.
JD Vance is a junior senator who's been in the Senate just a couple of years. And while I think we're all saying don't underestimate him because he's genuinely a smart guy, this is not somebody who has long credentials, even in the private sector, much less the public sector.
So, he needs to show up and convince people that a 78-year-old president, God forbid, on day one, he could step in and himself be the president of the United States. That's a tall order.
AXELROD: You know, those talking points, Dave.
URBAN: I know another senator who wasn't there too long -- four years, got nothing.
COOPER: How both candidates will handle the dramatic escalation in the Middle East as Iran launches about 200 missiles into Israel.
Stay with CNN for tonight's debate. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:11]
TAPPER: Welcome back to New York and CNN's live coverage of the Vice Presidential Debate.
We are now less than an hour away from tonight's showdown between JD Vance and Tim Walz. You will see it all here on CNN in just a moment.
But first, let's go to Tel Aviv, Israel and get a live report.
Officials there are assessing the damage from today's huge wave of Iranian missiles fired into Israel.
CNN's Jim Sciutto is joining us now from Tel Aviv as I said, Jim, what is the latest?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Jake, both US and Israeli officials have described this attack as ineffective, largely repelled by Israeli and US forces. But were learning in the aftermath that some missiles or perhaps pieces of missiles after impacts with interceptors did get through.
Perhaps the closest call, one that took place just to the north of us here in Tel Aviv right near the Mossad headquarters. You can see it in the distance there and I believe we have closer pictures, the headquarters of the international intelligence services of Israel coming within about a kilometer of there. And there have been other impacts at air bases and elsewhere.
Israel might count itself that there weren't casualties on its territory. There was someone killed in the West Bank.
Right now, attention turning to how Israel will respond. Israeli officials have said there will be serious consequences. And the menu of potential targets for Israeli retaliation range from air defense installations inside Iran to oil refineries right up to and including the possibility at least of strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities.
That would be at the top end of the spectrum, one that would be viewed certainly by Iran, but others in the region as a potential escalation of this.
Those facilities are ones that Iran protects and holds very dearly. The region on pins and needles now as they wait for Israel's response.
[20:20:12]
TAPPER: All right, Jim Sciutto in Tel Aviv, thank you so much.
Let's talk about this insertion of a major issue of huge consequences into the debate, it wasn't as if it wasn't going to be asked about, but now it really brings it up first foremost.
JD Vance has been debating foreign policy now for several years. He's a senator. This is even though Governor Walz served in the National Guard and served abroad, although not in a war zone. This is kind of a new issue for him. He doesn't talk about it quite a bit in his status as a governor of Minnesota. You have some new reporting on how he's preparing.
BASH: They scrambled as they saw what was happening in Israel, scrambled to come up with some lines for him, understandably. I mean we know what the lines out of the administration are. It's probably going to be very similar to what we are going to hear from him on the debate stage.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's really surprising to hear, though. I mean, this issue --
BASH: Which is surprising?
PHILLIP: -- that they're scrambling.
BASH: Well, what I mean by that is not that -- it's not, I don't mean to suggest that they weren't already preparing for this issue, but this is like obviously next level.
PHILLIP: It is next level. I do think, though, that this is the central argument against the Biden-Harris presidency on foreign policy issues, which is the world is in chaos and it is all Joe Biden and Kamala Harris' fault. And so, that is what we can expect to hear from JD Vance tonight.
The question is, what is Tim Walz's response going to be to that. And it's not clear, and to your point, Dana, I mean, this and Jake as well, this is not really a thing that he spent a lot of time talking about.
I mean, I also think -- I don't think we should have high expectations that we will get any groundbreaking foreign policy answers from either of these two gentlemen.
BASH: It's going to be about leadership.
PHILLIP: And a lot of talking points, frankly.
BASH: And I just want just went back to look at what Trump said in his statement, right after the strikes happened in the noon hour. And his first sentence is the world is on fire.
PHILLIP: Yes.
BASH: I would be shocked if we don't hear that from JD Vance. So, it's about leadership.
TAPPER: The Democratic response is not a good one, but it does -- but this is what it is. And I would be surprised if Tim Walz does not say this, which is that after they won't -- he won't mention this part of it. But after Trump struck Soleimani, the general in Iran, and killed him with a drone operation, Iran fired on Americans.
PHILLIP: Yes
BASH: Yes.
TAPPER: That was just this is January 2020. They were on about a week later, maybe six days later, fired on Americans and about a hundred of them got traumatic brain injuries.
PHILLIP: Yes.
BASH: Sure.
TAPPER: Now, Trump was asked about that, I believe today and he made a very glib dismissive comment about them getting headaches.
Now, obviously, our service members getting traumatic brain injury from a strike by Iran is not headaches. If I were Walz that's where I would go because there really isn't any other terrain that's any good on this issue because the world does seem on fire.
BASH: And you take that, but while you were talking, I was told that JD Vance has just entered the building. Go ahead.
PHILLIP: Well, you know, I think that the Trump world would like to memory hole that particular event, but it's probably not enough to be honest, which I think is the point that you're making for Walz to simply say that and dismiss the argument. I mean, there does need to be some articulation of what is the path forward here, because it's not another Biden term, but it's another Harris term that might be a continuation of the policy.
And if it's not he's not going to be the one to announce it tonight but I think that's going to be the question is, what's the change? Is there going to be a change to the foreign policy?
BASH: And so far, it's been very, very clear from Kamala Harris that there's going to be on foreign policy almost no change. She doesn't want -- she is opening up some cracks of daylight in economic policy and some other policy, but not on foreign policy.
TAPPER: Immigration.
BASH: And immigration.
TAPPER: So, you know, it's interesting. So, there obviously was an attempt by the Biden administration to engage with Iran and it obviously hasn't worked. I mean, it just hasn't. I mean, I'm not saying that any policy with Iran has worked because it really hasn't, but you do see that Iranian proxies Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, other militias in Iraq and Syria have become emboldened.
And there is a strong argument by Republicans against what's happened. Now, I mean again, you could look at -- you could go back decades and try to find one policy that worked and you won't find one.
BASH: Yes. No, that's true and I think the thing that we're going to at least I'm going to be watching for at every step of this debate is as much as it's going to be the two of them on stage, it's not about them. It's about the people at the top of the ticket and the question is whether or not JD Vance can turn what happened today into a negative of Kamala Harris.
[20:25:10]
I was watching Jim Sciutto in Israel, and I was thinking about one of the books he wrote, I think is "The Madman Theory", which was something that a lot of people talked about when Donald Trump was president, about whether or not there's something to the fact that there are countries and there are leaders despots, our adversaries who weren't really sure where he was going to go. And maybe that did keep him in check.
I don't think that JD Vance is going to say, this is a madman. You know, that my guy is a madman but you can be sure he's going to talk about Kamala Harris is weak on foreign policies.
TAPPER: You seem to say that the Iranians were afraid of Donald Trump.
BASH: Yes.
TAPPER: He's going to end -- although I would add, that the intense sanctions regime that the Trump administration was imposing probably -- PHILLIP: And he is going to say probably that Israel had more respect, Netanyahu in particular for Trump than they do for Biden.
TAPPER: Stay with CNN, as we cover both of the major breaking stories unfolding this evening.
For updates on the Iranian attack on Israel. You can go to CNN.com while you're watching the Vice Presidential Debate right here live on CNN.
Still ahead, how Senator JD Vance and Governor Tim Walz are going to try to portray each other as extreme.
Plus, were going to talk with Republican Senator Katie Britt of Alabama and the Democratic Governor of Illinois, J.B. Pritzker. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:27]
COOPER: We are closing in on the start of the only vice presidential debate of the 2024 campaign for the White House. Stay right here to see Democrat Tim Walz and Republican J.D. Vance face off live.
I want to go to CNN's Kaitlan Collins with some new reporting. Kaitlan?
COLLINS: Yes, Anderson, as we are watching this debate tonight, I should note that former President Donald Trump will actually be watching from his plane as he is headed from Wisconsin to Texas. That's where he'll be watching his running mate, Senator J.D. Vance take on Governor Walz.
And I should note, Anderson, that what we are going to watch tonight could be the last debate of this entire 2024 election cycle. That's because so far, Donald Trump has said he is not going to debate Vice President Harris one more time, even though she has accepted CNN's debate for an invitation, I should note, for a next debate that is going to happen and what happened just days away from the 2024 election.
But Anderson, behind the scenes, some of Trump's allies have been privately urging him to take her on one more time. They believe he would benefit from a second debate, looking at what happened in 2020 when they thought he did not have a good debate against then candidate, former Vice President Joe Biden, but then performed, they believed much better in the second debate.
They are hoping that could happen this time around. And one thing that they are watching for tonight is as Donald Trump is watching Vance on stage against walls, if that is a way that convinces Trump to actually decide to take Harris on one more time. It's a bit of a pressure campaign that's happening behind the scenes.
But, of course, whether or not Donald Trump actually does debate her one more time is ultimately up to Donald Trump. Anderson?
COOPER: Kaitlan, thanks. The historically closed race for the White House will all come down to it was all important, electoral votes. John King is at the magic wall mapping out the race to 270. John, what does it look like? Go ahead.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Anderson, the big question, do the vice presidential candidates move the needle in what is a remarkably competitive race for 270 electoral votes? Mark me down as skeptical, but this is an unprecedented campaign, so we shall see.
Where are we in the state of the race right now real quickly before I go through the states? National poll of polls. No clear leader. Maybe a slight advantages for Kamala Harris, but that's a national poll. We pick presidents state by state. So we have essentially a dead heat.
So then you look at some of these battleground states and you get the same picture. We'll pop these up. In Wisconsin, no clear leader, very close. In Michigan, the same. In Pennsylvania, in North Carolina, in Georgia. Again, we don't have enough polls to average out in the other Sun Belt states, Nevada and Arizona, but we know from individual polls it is as close as it gets.
So, can the vice presidential candidates make a difference? One potential theory, you have a senator from Ohio and a governor from Minnesota, the three blue wall states, the industrial, some call them rust belt states, are up for grabs. They are from the neighborhood. Let's watch how they talk about manufacturing and how they talk about jobs.
Now, how do the candidates get from where they are right now very competitively to 270? These states are absolutely critical for everybody. It's Kamala Harris's quickest path to 270. She's at 225 right now.
One, two, three and you win Nebraska's second congressional district, and you're done for the Democrats, right? But, but Harris can get there, unlike Trump, Harris can get there without any of the blue wall states. Trump needs to win one of those states unless he somehow flips in Illinois, or flips in New York, and that's unlikely to happen.
Because if Harris won North Carolina, not saying this is easy, Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada, she gets there without the blue wall states. And so, as we watch the race tonight, there are a hundred different ways you could go through these scenarios. I would just argue, Pennsylvania remains by far the biggest prize.
That's why they're spending the most money there. It's 19 electoral votes. If you win that, the candidate who wins Pennsylvania gets 19. Makes that path to 270 so much easier. But again, Harris would love to just sweep right here. Then she's on the verge of the presidency.
The Sun Belt states are in play. Will the vice presidential candidates move the dial? Not so sure about that, but we do know this. Number one, there's a pressing global issue that's going to come up a lot tonight. But when you travel in these states and these states, the number one issue in all of them, cost of living.
COOPER: Fascinating.
With panel here in New York. David Urban, I mean, do both candidates on the stage tonight try to paint the other as the most extreme?
URBAN: You know, I --
COOPER: Or both try to seem the most moderate?
URBAN: Yes, I think you're going to hear a lot about China tonight, right? And that we talked about this earlier that J.D. Vance I, my suspicion, will try to paint Tim Walz as the card-carrying member of the Chinese Communist Party. I mean, they did honeymoon in China. A little strange, you know, most people go to the Bahamas or, you know, on a cruise and they -- the Walz's honeymoon in China.
COOPER: Wasn't that the same as like the Bernie Sanders honeymooning in Soviet Union?
URBAN: But, you know, look, I don't know. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I think that's -- they're going to try to project him as, you know, talking about weird, they're going to try to project him as being so closely aligned with the Chinese Communist Party, the congressional investigation of him with ties to China, on and on and on.
[20:35:07]
And so -- and, you know, and I suspect that the Democrats will try to, you know, they'll continue back with the narrative on the cats and dogs and putting people at risk and he's too dangerous. So I do think they'll do that. But, again, it's about the principles here and how do they defend their principles.
Is Walz going to be asked to answer about, you know, do you support a taxpayer fund reparations? Where do you stand on paying for transgender surgery for illegal immigrants? Where do you stand on -- I mean, if he's asked those questions, is he going to be able to answer them? It'll be on the defense.
JONES: Yes, I think that people are looking for somebody to bring this country back together. The level of division, the level of fear. And also you were saying before the break, who was president really matters?
When you're picking somebody who's been -- who has nothing on his resume except for a phony autobiography, J.D. Vance, sucking up to rich people and doing a bad job on wall street, J.D. Vance, and then being in the Senate for a year and a half and has insulted women, Haitians and everybody else. That's who Donald Trump thinks America deserves as president if he falls.
So, I think tonight coach Walz has an opportunity to show that he can bring people together, that he can unite people, and he can also, I think, put this little bully in his place. He's been a coach of Whippersnapper, Upstart, Nasty Kids, and I think he's got to have one on his hand tonight.
AXELROD: You got to be -- you got to do that carefully because --
JONES: Yes, how do you do it?
AXELROD: -- you know, back -- well back, I can -- let me just say -- and you may remember this Tim Kaine debated Mike Pence, and they tried to turn Kaine into a snarling attack dog.
JONES: Didn't work.
AXELROD: And that's not who he was. And as a result, he had a very bad debate. There's no doubt that Walz needs to engage with Vance, and he can't let -- for example, you know, the China issue, Walz was one of -- maybe the leading advocate for human rights in China in the United States Congress when he was there.
He can't sit there and let him distort that --
GRIFFIN: Walz --
AXELROD: -- but he has to do it within the context of who he is and not try and become a snarling attack.
GRIFFIN: Well, in Walz's telegraph that he's nervous about this. The smartest thing he could do is make people believe he knows and cares about the issues that they do and that they have a plan to solve that. I would not be going for the dunking moments.
J.D. Vance's uphill battle is the fact that he's smart, he's educated, he's well spoken, he's not likable. You can't fix that off.
URBAN: You can say, but when your principal hasn't answered the questions, how do you expect the underline?
COOPER: I want to go back to the debate hall with Jake. Jake?
TAPPER: Thanks so much, Anderson. We're going to keep looking ahead to the debate coming up in just minutes. We have with us Republican Senator Katie Britt of Alabama. And I have to say it's debate wisdom that you set expectations for your opponent's high and for yourself low, but President Trump -- former President Trump has said that Vance is going up again -- I'm quoting now, quote, "going up against a moron, a total moron."
Is that how you see expectations?
SEN. KATIE BRITT (R-AL): Look, I think if you look at Governor Walz and he has been in the public eye for quite some time having served in Congress and then obviously now in the governor's mansion. So I don't think this is new to him at all and I think that he will be prepared.
TAPPER: So you're setting him in the other direction.
BRITT: Well, I think he'll be prepared and I think he'll be ready. But I think what the point is here though, is just many of his policies and positions he's taken lack common sense. And tonight, what I am hoping is that the American people have a chance to get to know J.D. The J.D. that I know, you know, not just my colleague, but someone I'm proud to call my friend.
So Wesley and I have enjoyed getting to know he and Usha as people and as parents. And I think he has a vision for this nation. I think he has a will and desire to execute. I think he has a story that embodies the American Dream, but I think it also shows exactly what he's fighting for.
And so it is my hope tonight that not only people get to see J.D. but also what we can draw that contrast between the lack of common sense of Tim Walz and his policies and then also the flip flops that we've seen from Kamala Harris. And I think tonight J.D. will expose that many of the things she's saying now are blatantly untruthful to where she actually stands.
TAPPER: So, one of the things that I'm sure will be brought up at the very least by Governor Walz, is that Senator Vance has not always had the same position, you're talking about flip flops, he hasn't always had the same position on Donald Trump that he has right now. I don't -- I could read you every quote, it would take an hour or two, it would infringe in the debate, so I won't do that.
But he's called them -- some of the quotes, Vance calling Trump a moral disaster, a total fraud, and he even suggested that Donald Trump could be, quote, "America's Hitler."
BRITT: Yes.
TAPPER: If you were Vance, how would you advise him to handle that line of attack, which I'm sure will come?
BRITT: Yes. I think he already has. I think he's answered those things head on.
[20:40:02]
I mean, he's done more any -- many media interviews than I think probably any other vice presidential candidate in front of him or before him. And so I think he's hit it head on. He said, look, this is what I thought, this is what I know now, and this is why I have moved in that direction.
That's very unlike what we've seen from Kamala Harris. You have Kamala Harris who said, for instance, when it comes to things like the border, that Trump's border wall was a medieval vanity project. She also said she would never vote for one's son.
Now she actually has a border wall in her campaign commercials. So, being able to rectify those two things, and you can say, well, maybe she changed her mind. If that's the case, she's been in office for three and a half years. She was the border czar. They never put one new penny to new border wall construction.
So, I think whether it's those types of flip flops or on energy, look, I believe we need to unleash American energy. We do it better, cleaner, and more efficiently than anywhere across the globe. That's President Trump's policy. That's what J.D. Vance stands for.
You see Kamala Harris now saying she's for fracking and for drilling. I think those types of things, those real policy answers --
BASH: Senator --
BRITT: -- I think are important.
BASH: Senator, I want to talk to you about the gender gap. There's always been a gender gap. I don't need to tell you're a Republican woman. But it's very, very wide right now. And recently, Donald Trump said that he said, quote, "I will be your protector," speaking to women. What woman do you think he's trying to reach in saying I will be your protector? What's he trying to do there? And do you think that's an approach that he should take?
BRITT: So when you look at President Trump's presidency and what he did for women during that time period, there were more women in the workforce than ever. We had the largest number of women start small businesses. He actually instituted paid family leave for federal employees, you know, taking a look at issues like child care amongst others, which we know doesn't just affect women. It affects parents in general.
When you look at things like making sure that our daughters have opportunity to grow and thrive in women's sports. You know, when you look at the fact that like, I, as a mom, want my kids to be safe.
BASH: But you want to be protected?
BRITT: And so, well, I do want my kids to be safe, and I believe that the commander in chief should be in command. And I think what he is saying there, Dana, is that right now, Joe Biden is not in command, and he has said that Kamala Harris has been with him in lockstep with every single decision.
And so when you're looking at the fact that it's not just our country, but the world is in chaos, and that can't be denied, whether it's Putin's aggression into Ukraine, whether it is the world being on fire in the Middle East, or whether it's Xi Jinping saying it's not an if, but a when I take Taiwan,.
Whether it's our border being unsecured, I'm sure that whether it's the story of Laken Riley's tragedy or sweet Jocelyn's tragedy or whatnot, you know, restoring security and strength, I think is essential for every American. And I think we want a commander in chief that understands and I'll do that.
TAPPER: Senator Britt, good to have you. Thank you so much.
BRITT: Thank you. I really appreciate it.
TAPPER: Don't be a stranger.
BRITT: OK, OK.
TAPPER: We've been trying to put you on State of the Union for quite some time. Anderson?
BRITT: Well, I look forward to coming on. I look forward to coming on.
COOPER: Jake, thanks very much.
We were talking about how each may try to paint the other as extreme or both portray themselves as more moderate than the other to try to get swing voters. I just want to show a little bit about the -- how Vance has gone after to Walz on some issues.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You actively encourage rioters to burn down Minneapolis during the summer of 2020, it's the biggest city in his country. And then, of course, his running mate Kamala Harris was offering to bail those writers out of prison.
Tim Walz's record is a joke. He's been one of the most far left radicals in the entire United States government at any level. Kamala Harris has bent the knee to the far left of her party, which is what she always does. She selected Tim Walz, a guy who wants to ship more manufacturing jobs to China, who wants to give illegal aliens driver's licenses, and who wants to make the fentanyl crisis that we just heard about so much worse because he refuses to do his job.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: All right, let's take a look at how Walz has tried to present J.D. Vance.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: His running mate shares his dangerous and backward agenda for this country. J.D. Vance literally, literally wrote the foreword for the architect of the Project 2025 agenda. You know it, you feel it. These guys are creepy and yes, just weird as hell. That's what you're seeing. That's what you see.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: So, Van?
JONES: I think that we're going to see a lot of that kind of nastiness, but at the end of the day, I think that coach Walz is going to be going for character, leadership, unity, and I think J.D. Vance is going to be going for distortions. That's what he does. J.D. Vance lies. J.D. Vance distorts. J.D. Vance demeans, that's his shtick, that's why Trump picked him, and that's what you're going to see tonight.
[20:45:02] URBAN: You're talking about a guy who lied about his DUI, who lied about his military record, who lied about -- I can't go on, I don't want to cut into the debate. The guy says, you're going to call him coach? I'm going to call him command sergeant major.
He lied about being a retired command sergeant major. I mean, you cannot acknowledge that, I mean, he's going to come out on the stage.
JONES: I don't like --
URBAN: He's going to come on the stage. You're going to have to answer those.
JONES: I don't like when he exaggerates. I think that's --
URBAN: No, that's not exaggeration.
JONES: No, no, no., no. I'm trying to --
URBAN: It's not an exaggeration.
JONES: I'm trying to give you a point here. I don't like that stuff. And I think it's a mark on his character and it's a little bitty squished. And then you've got a massive wall of demeaning, horrible conduct on the part of J.D. Vance.
AXELROD: Here's the strategic question. Vance will do what he just did. He will embellish. He will exaggerate. He may even lie about Walz's record. And Walz has a temper. Walz gets angry. How does that work in this debate? How does he handle those things?
This is the problem that people often have in debating Donald Trump or in dealing with Donald Trump because he's serially lies about stuff and you can't keep up with it. And here he'll be doing it about Walz. The question is, how does he deal with that?
URBAN: And David, your point --
FARAH GRIFFIN: Well, and this -- but --
COOPER: Listen to Alyssa.
FARAH GRIFFIN: The gender gap is very real. It's a gender canyon. And I would guess that J.D. Vance actually plays even worse than Donald Trump with some voters. So I'm going to be very curious how he deals with one of the most important issues this cycle, which is reproductive rights.
He's actually to the right of Donald Trump on it. He knows he has to stay within the bounds of saying throwing it back to the states, but he's expressed some positions that are going to be, I think he's going to be challenged on in a major way by a candidate who himself has talked about. He went through IUI with his wife.
That's going to be interesting to see if there's any way that he's even able to appeal to vote with female voters. Because again, a female vice presidential candidate on the Trump ticket would have been a much smarter move to that.
COOPER: I'm curious to see how much Walz tries to go toe to toe with J.D. Vance, like tit for tat or how much to Vance point he tries to sort of just do his own thing and answer his own questions. We'll take it. We'll see.
Jake, back to you.
TAPPER: Thanks so much, Anderson.
So joining us now, somebody -- I mean, this is the thing about being in a spin room. You just -- all these big shots right now. We had just a Senator Katie Britt. Now we have Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois. Thanks so much for being here.
GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): Now you're making fun of us.
TAPPER: I'm not making fun of you. You're a big shot. You're not a big shot? So --
PRITZKER: I'm big guy. Yes.
TAPPER: No, big shots.
PRITZKER: Oh OK.
TAPPER: So, I've heard David Axelrod, a Chicago native said earlier that he thought it was a mistake that Tim Walz, the governor, has not done as many interviews as J.D. Walz because that kind of gets you in good shape for a debate. What do you think?
PRITZKER: Well, he's been doing a lot of interviews. He's just been doing them regionally and locally. I mean, I think, you know, network television isn't the only place to do interviews. And so, that's where he's been. He's been out in the hinterlands, which is exactly where Democrats need to be winning back votes that have been lost to Republicans historically.
So I'm actually proud of the work that he's done. I think he's got some experience doing these kinds of interviews. And remember, he's been governor for, you know, six years before this, and then for 12 years a congressman. So, I -- look, I'm not saying that he's slick the way that J.D. Vance is.
J.D. Vance has been on the, you know, the floor of the Senate debating for a year and a half. It seems like, by the way, he can't hold a job for more than about a year and a half at a time. But he's been debating for a year and a half, and he had the campaign right before it.
And he's a guy who's Yale educated, and I think that slickness is going to serve him well, but poorly over the long haul, because we're going to fact check him.
TAPPER: Just in point of view, in point of fact, I've interviewed you more this week than I've interviewed the entire Democratic ticket this year, but that's a separate issue.
PRITZKER: OK, but the Democratic ticket has not been the Democratic ticket for very long.
TAPPER: Some of that.
PRITZKER: So I'll do --
TAPPER: Make them all three of them. Make it all three. So Governor Walz, speaking of fact checking, Governor Walz just tripped over another apparently false fact that he made -- claimed, that he said that in the past that he was in Hong Kong during the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, he was not -- this does seem to be something of a pattern.
I understand that J.D. Vance is no slouch to stories that are not accurate as well. Those are about Haitian migrants and dogs and cats. But how does he address this? I mean, he's, you know --
PRITZKER: Look, when you're in public life for a couple of decades, you're going to make a mistake here and there, and you're going to get called out on it in a presidential campaign.
TAPPER: Somehow you've avoided this.
PRITZKER: Well, here's what I know. On the other side of the ticket, you've got guys who are lying every day to the American people, and I think that's what really matters. Tim Walz is somebody who is trustworthy. He's the guy who lives down the street that you'd trust, you know, with your kids.
He's the, you know, the coach that everybody likes. He's a good guy, and he's been a trusted leader of Minnesota for some years now. And I think that's what really matters. You got, again, when you look on the other side of the stage, you're going to see J.D. Vance who's been lying over and over again and standing up for the biggest liar of them all, that's Donald Trump.
[20:50:01]
PHILLIP: Is that a window into what you think is the weakness here? I mean, I wonder, what's the opening if you are Tim Walz, when you got two white guys on a stage both from the Midwest, what is the opening? Is it that J.D. Vance is a flip flopper?
PRITZKER: I think the biggest thing that Tim Walz has got to do tonight, I understand the question, is he's got to show his heart. I mean, that is -- this is the guy, he's a Midwestern governor, I've known him now as a fellow Midwestern governor.
When he shows his heart, when he shows people who he really is, people love him, they fall in love with him. So I think that's the biggest job that he's got tonight. I also think that there is a big opening, and that's making sure that people know that J.D. Vance has been lying over and over again.
There's a record of this, I mean, literally his entire career. And the guy is just not ready for prime time. I think we've seen that.
PHILLIP: When you are talking about lying, are you talking about policy or other things?
PRITZKER: I'm talking about he lies consistently when he stands up and backs up Donald Trump on his lies, and when he has talked about Springfield, Ohio and the immigrants. And, I mean, that's -- when you're doing that over and over, and you're showing kind of the racism, the xenophobia that comes across in his beliefs I just think that that's going to be a big contrast.
And I, having said that I -- this is not going to be an easy debate, because when you're debating somebody who constantly lies, this is the problem is, you have to decide when are you going to fact check them on stage when you've got a minute and a half to get your message --
PHILLIP: Should he do it, in your opinion?
PRITZKER: It depends on what gets said, honestly. And I -- this is a very tough thing. As governor, I've had to debate people who are lying on the other side of the stage constantly. And sometimes you've just got to say, that's a lie, and move on. And sometimes you've got to actually go into the detail of it. It really depends on the issue.
PHILLIP: All right.
TAPPER: Illinois's own Land of Lincoln, Governor J.B. Pritzker, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.
PHILLIP: Thank you very much.
TAPPER: Anderson?
PRITZKER: Thank you.
COOPER: Thanks very much.
It is one of those questions, I mean, both from the moderator's standpoint and also from the candidate's standpoint. How much do you fact check? You know, the moderators have sort of I think in this one or say they will -- we have to their discretion --
AXELROD: I think they've probably worked on this a lot. How -- you don't want to chase rabbits down the hole. And so you have to decide, as J.B. Pritzker just said what is core stuff that you have to pursue, and what is just a diversion that keeps you from going to your message.
And that's one of the things that debate prep does for you. But he also said something else. The thing that Walz has is decency. And that's actually the thing that is a vulnerability of Trump and the ticket and he needs to play to that in this debate. I think if people sense that in him and they associate that with what Democrats are selling, I think that's a step forward.
JONES: And I think that he's got a lot to work with there. I mean, this is somebody who had a bare majority in his legislature and he got food in the bellies of kids in school. He can talk about that. He can talk about actual people he helped. He has used government to help people. He's fought for child care.
He's fought for voting rights. He has smart climate policies, but he's -- he can talk about actual human beings who've been benefited. And J.D. Vance can't talk about having helped anybody but himself. And so those are the kinds of things -- except for his military service, which is different -- but in terms of his role in government.
And so, I think that people are going to tune in and they're going to make a pretty quick assessment. And I think for, to your point earlier, to movable women, this is a guy who is -- his is the kind of masculinity, this is the kind of man you want from a husband, a father, a son, a neighbor. And I think he -- if he lets that shine through tonight, I think he gets some of those women say, you know what? I don't trust J.D. Vance to tell the truth.
I don't trust him on women's issues. I definitely can't trust J.D. Vance who basically, you know, signed off on Project '25. I can trust coach Walz.
URBAN: So all I'll say is this about that. His congressional district that he ran in twice and won when he was going to get redistricted, so he kind of ran for -- he ran for governor. The past two times he's run for governor he's lost his own congressionally.
The people who know him best, his district, where he ran, don't vote for him anymore. He's not the affable, lovable, bear huggable guy --
AXELROD: He serves six terms, by the way.
URBAN: Six term, whatever. He's lost it all -- he's lost his district over and over again as governor. So that --
FARAH GRIFFIN: I mean, and one thing, just like --
URBAN: People know him best, don't like him.
FARAH GRIFFIN: But on the J.D. Vance -- just a reminder, Mike Pence is not on this stage tonight. There is a reason that Donald Trump's running mate, who served for four years alongside him, knew him better than anyone at this table, and most people watching do, is not supporting him for president.
He certified the election results. J.D. Vance said he would not certify the election results. There's this sort of hanging over tonight's discourse is the fact that this is a person who stepped in when many other people probably wouldn't have wanted this role, frankly, because of what is required of being Donald Trump's --
AXELROD: Dangerous.
FARAH GRIFFIN: -- running mate. And he knows, he's very aware that his answers are being watched by Donald Trump tonight and he has to stay on message. AXELROD: Well, one thing I want to say, Katie Britt said, you know, she's -- she supported all those policies of the president. That's what vice presidents do.
[20:55:04]
Mike Pence dissented once in four years. Nobody talks about the Pence years. He dissented once from Trump and he almost was never heard from again.
FARAH GRIFFIN: But --
COOPER: Yes. Jake, let's go back to you.
TAPPER: Thanks, Anderson. And I have to say guys, as we count down to the last minutes, I don't know what we're going to see tonight, but I can't remember a debate where I have felt more animus between the two vice presidential nominees than this one.
I just don't recall it between --
PHILLIP: Not even between Harris and Pence?
TAPPER: Harris and Pence, no.
BASH: Yes, I think there's more this time, too.
PHILLIP: Yes.
BASH: Because think about it, out of the gate, J.D. Vance, one of the first things he did, was go after Tim Walz for his military service.
PHILLIP: Yes.
TAPPER: Well, for the misstatements he'd made.
BASH: Yes, misstatements that he'd made.
TAPPER: Yes.
PHILLIP: Yes. I've been kind of noodling this question of, you know, has Tim Walz been absent, and is there a strategy there? I mean, I'm willing to give that there might actually be something in. The fact that I'm not sure what Tim Walz is going to say on that debate stage, because he hasn't been saying a whole lot, especially nationally.
And if you're J.D. Vance and you're in the debate prep room and you're trying to prepare for what he's going to say to every single question, maybe there is something about the fact that they've really kept it close to the vest, that could give Walz an advantage tonight.
BASH: How about stay out of our business? Stay out of my business is his line, right?
PHILLIP: Yes.
TAPPER: One of the --
PHILLIP: But there are going to be a lot of questions on a whole lot of other issues as well.
TAPPER: One of the things that's interesting is the degree to which J.D. Vance is really part of the extremely online, right? And like, he's there for the base, right? I mean, he throws red meat to the base. He attacks reporters. He attacks the media. He attacks the Democrats.
And I'm sure that Donald Trump generally loves it. I mean, he -- there is no stronger attack dog. He's setting a new standard for attack dogs. Speaking of dogs, you have that whole fake, you know, thing about the -- about Haitians in Springfield. But we haven't seen what Walz is going to be. I mean, we -- he has done some attacking here and there, but it's -- he's really been more of a booster of Harris, it seems to me than he has been an attack dog.
BASH: Which, I mean, he's going to have to be a booster, and that's one of the fascinating dynamics here, is that he was picked for lots of reasons. One of the reasons is that he said very clearly he was very comfortable being the real number two to Kamala Harris, the real number two to a woman.
And I'm wondering how much of that either overtly or maybe the subtext of what J.D. Vance is going to say and do to Governor Walz is going to be about that -- about sort of --
PHILLIP: Yes.
BASH: -- the manliness of it all.
PHILLIP: He also has a distinct advantage of coming into this debate, Tim Walz does, as much more popular than J.D. Vance is, much more liked, generally. He's not as well known, but he's liked more. And J.D. Vance is underwater in his favorability among American voters.
And if you're Tim Walz, you're probably thinking, how can I exacerbate that problem for J.D. Vance? Make it -- make him seem more unlikable. That contrast I think is going to be key. It may not be explicit, but it might be implicit in, you know, trying to lean in to the Midwestern --
BASH: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- nice dad kind of vibe that he came on the scene with to begin with.
TAPPER: So, Vance has a real problem with women. He needs to build up support with women --
PHILLIP: Yes.
TAPPER: -- and Walz says the opposite image. He needs to, you know, he was -- one of the reasons he was brought on was to shore up Harris's support with men because, you know, he fishes -- BASH: Yes.
TAPPER: -- and he hunts and he was in the National Guard and all that. I wonder how much they're going to lean into either of those desires in their performances tonight.
BASH: I think they will. I think they definitely will. The question is how much is Vance going to try to make up for the way that he has -- not necessarily ingratiated himself with a lot of female voters. Some, but a lot, no.
And whether or not Walz is going to try to continue on that mission that you're very -- you're totally right, that was one of the main things that the Harris campaign saw in Governor Walz is try to close that gap that she has with male voters, particularly white male voters, particularly the populist white male voters that Donald Trump appeals to.
TAPPER: Yes, in Minnesota, but more importantly in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.
Stay right here to see every moment of the vice presidential debate live on CNN. Our debate coverage continues right now.
COOPER: We are less than a minute away from the vice presidential debate here in New York City. The Democratic and Republican nominees are getting ready to take their places on stage.
I'm Anderson Cooper. This is CNN's special live coverage of debate night in America.
