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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Harris Takes On Fox News, Spars With Anchor; Trump: "All I Do Is Report,"; At Univision Town Hall, Trump Refuses To Back Off False Claims About Haitian Migrants Eating Pets In Springfield, Ohio; Elissa Slotkin And Mike Rogers Locked In Tight Battle For Michigan Senate Seat; Elissa Slotkin Warns Harris Is Underwater In Michigan; Family Of Menendez Brothers Call For Their Release. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired October 16, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN, CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: For all the anxiety among Democrats, several things fit into that category. Third party candidates, certainly one of them, Jill Stein, is on the ballot here, but so is RFK, Jr. so some Democrats wonder if he will still siphon off votes from the former president, even though he's out of the race.
Erin, the bottom line across the blue wall, these states are incredibly margin of error races that's why both candidates will be spending a lot of time here for the next three weeks -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, certainly what the polls show, razor thin. Anxieties so high.
Thanks so much to you Jeff, and thanks so much to all of you for joining us. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, after campaigning in Pennsylvania with Republican supporters, Vice President Harris goes on Fox, how she handled some tough questions.
And a look at two battleground states tonight for the second day in a row, early voters turn out in record numbers in Georgia.
And in Michigan, we'll speak to a congresswoman reportedly warning that Vice President Harris is "underwater" in Michigan polling.
And later, 35 years after killing their parents, will Lyle and Erik Menendez get a new chance to go free and look at new evidence coming to light.
Good evening. Thanks for being with us, 20 days until the election and a busy night for us. A town hall with the former president airing later tonight on Spanish language television and just a short time ago, Vice President Harris was interviewed on Fox.
Speaking with Bret Baier, the vice president was asked about a number of hot-button issues for conservative leaning voters, including the border and was asked, once again, what makes her different than Joe Biden?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX, CHIEF POLITICAL ANCHOR: So you're not Joe Biden, you're not Donald Trump, but nothing comes to mind that you would do differently?
HARRIS: Let me be very clear. My presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency. And like every new president that comes in to office, I will bring my life experiences, my professional experiences, and fresh and new ideas. I represent a new generation of leadership.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The interview followed a campaign rally in Washington Crossing in Pennsylvania. The vice president appearing with notable Republicans who have endorsed her. One of those Republicans joins us now former Georgia Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan. He is now a CNN political commentator. Also with us is Machalagh Carr, former chief of staff to Kevin McCarthy and CNN political commentator, Jonah Goldberg, co- founder and editor-in-chief of "The Dispatch."
This interview is all about appealing to Republican voters who may be disenchanted with President Trump's, so we have three Republicans with us.
Geoff, how important was it for the vice president to distance herself from President Biden and do you think she did a good job?
GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think we first got to start off. She dove into the deep end of the pool with Fox News and Bret Baier, and she did extremely well. She answered the questions on message and you know, look, the Republicans she's trying to track down right now at this point in the campaign are not the Republicans she's going to flip from Trump to herself. She's just trying to flip those Republicans that weren't going to show up and vote and just sit on the couch.
I think they heard a message today that was consistent and they were able to figure out do they want somebody who's more liberal than they are, or somebody who lies to them every day. And I think at the end of the day, more Republicans that sit in the middle are going to flock toward somebody that they can legislatively work with that's more liberal =, but doesn't lie to them every time he opens his mouth.
COOPER: Jonah, I want to get your overall impression of just how you think this did or did not appeal to any persuadable Republicans? I do want to, before that, just play this back-and-forth they had over the Biden-Harris record on immigration and border security.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: Looking back, do you regret the decision to terminate remain- in-Mexico at the beginning of your administration? HARRIS: At the beginning of our administration within practically hours of taking the oath the first bill that we offered Congress before we worked on infrastructure, before the Inflation Reduction Act, before the CHIPS and Science Act, before any -- before the bipartisan, Safer Communities Act, the first bill practically within hours of taking the oath was a bill to fix our immigration system.
BAIER: Yes, ma'am. It was called a US Citizenship Act of 2021 --
HARRIS: Exactly, and so --
BAIER: -- it was essentially --
HARRIS: -- but I -- may I please --
BAIER: -- that way the citizenship for the -- yes, ma'am --
HARRIS: May I finish responding, please.
BAIER: But you -- but this --
HARRIS: --but you have to let me finish, please.
BAIER: -- you have the White House and the House and the Senate and they didn't bring up that bill.
HARRIS: I'm in the middle of responding to the point you're raising --
BAIER: Okay.
HARRIS: And I'd like to finish.
BAIER: Yes, ma'am.
HARRIS: We recognized from day one, that to the point of this being your first question, it is a priority for us a nation and for the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: How do you think she dealt with that and general overall?
JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, look, I think she dealt with -- I think that was one of her shakier moments. I think that moment, as well as the entire interview is really kind of a Rorschach test for a lot of people.
If you went in thinking negatively about Kamala Harris, you came out feeling like your priors were confirmed; if you went in thinking positively about her, you thought your priors were confirmed, if you didn't like Bret Baier of Fox News, ditto, right?
[20:05:05]
And I think, she could have had a better answer on the substance at the same time, I'm not sure that the answer that she gave is going to move a single voter in any significant regard. It sounded like she knew what she was talking about to people who don't pay a lot -- close attention to this are not deeply bought in to it, and it sounded like she didn't to people who are in the other side of the argument.
I think the dueling interruption stuff probably helped her because, I mean, I know this shocked you, Anderson, but a lot of normal voters don't like the media these days, and it's not just like the mainstream liberal media, it's the media and politicians pushing back and not taking guff from reporters, even Bret Baier, who I thought was in his rights asking the question, probably plays well for her. It plays tough. It probably plays well to the voters that are gettable for.
So I think I understand why we're talking it. I don't you can about it. I don't think that necessarily three days from now. I mean, if you look on Twitter, you would think the campaign is over for either Trump or Harris. And I think those reactions are all ridiculous.
COOPER: Machalagh, how do you think she did? I mean, do you think this interview could win over some Nikki Haley voters on the margins?
MACHALAGH CARR, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO KEVIN MCCARTHY: So, it's interesting, I don't think that when you're looking at who she was trying to reach here, right? The voters who are die-hard Republicans, she wasn't trying to go to them. She was trying to see if there was anybody in the middle worthy and able to still persuade. And what we see from the polls is that those people that are undecided, the two percent in some states, the six percent in other states that are honestly undecided, they're undecided because they care about policies, they want to hear more details and more specifics. Specifically, on what she's going to do about the border and immigration and the economy and we didn't hear any specifics.
To Jonah's point just now, it sounded like she knew what she was talking about if you're not really paying attention, but her inability, this far into the game to say how she would differentiate herself from Joe Biden, which is the ultimate question when you're trying to be a change candidate, I think she ultimately did more harm than good by doing that interview.
COOPER: Geoff, I want to play the moment when Trump's enemy from within remarks came up, let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: He's the one who talks about an enemy within -- an enemy within talking about the American people suggesting he would turn the American military on the American people.
BAIER: We asked that question to the former president today, Harris Faulkner at a town hall and this is how he responded.
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I heard about that. They were saying I was like threatening. I'm not threatening anybody. They're the ones doing the threatening. They do phony investigations. I've been investigated more than Alphonse Capone. He was the greatest -- no it's true. We know particularly -- it's called weaponization of government, this is a terrible thing.
BAIER: So --
HARRIS: Bret, I'm sorry, and with all due respect, that clip was not what he has been saying about the enemy within that he has repeated when he's speaking about the American people that's not what you just showed.
BAIER: Well he was asked about that specific --
HARRIS: No, no, that's not what you just showed in all fairness and respect to you.
BAIER: No, no, I was telling you that was the question that we asked him.
HARRIS: You didn't show that and here's the bottom line. He has repeated it many times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean, Bret Baier did not actually show the clip where he actually does talk about the enemy within. So, it was interesting choice that they made in that.
The vice president was correct, I mean, Harris Faulkner played for Trump that clip of his enemy within. Harris Faulkner actually played that clip for the former president, then asked him, Mr. President, Kamala Harris' said, you sounded unhinged and unchecked power is in our future. What do you say about that? And Trump actually doubled down on this. So let's watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is the enemy from within, and they're very dangerous. They're Marxists and communists and fascists. And they say, I use a guy like Adam Schiff because they made up the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. If you have a smart president that they could all be handled. The more difficult are the Pelosis, these people, they're so sick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Again, interesting choice by Fox not to actually play that part of the answer, but CNN is also reporting that Fox News did not disclose that the female audience that selected for was billed as an all women town hall was packed with local Trump Republican supporters. But I'm wondering what you make of how Harris handled herself in that moment, Geoff.
DUNCAN: Well, first of all, that's just classic Donald Trump. I mean, to say something absolutely unhinged and then try to back away from it as needed. But look, I mean, is he talking about a governor that maybe doesn't go his way, is he talking about a witness who testifies against him, is he talking about a legislator who votes against his agenda, is he talking about a lieutenant governor that doesn't call a special session to usurp democracy? I mean, this is what he's referring to and to me, it's just -- it's unimaginable to think that we're even in this point, but we are, and we've got to fight hard down the finish line to get Kamala Harris into the White House, not because I agree with their policies, but because she's the best next step for America.
[20:10:09]
I got to spend a bunch of time around Kamala Harris today. I got to have a private meeting with her. I got to listen to somebody talk to a bunch of Republicans, and be able to have a real conversation about consensus.
I was able to thank her for making it easier for people like me. She's doing the fundraising. She's performing well in debates. She's answering the questions, she's doing the interviews.
This is unhinged from Donald Trump and we cannot let him have another hall pass to destroy this country. He's already destroyed the party. Let's not give a chance to destroy the country.
COOPER: All right, everybody stay with us. We're going to have more on this. Coming up, we'll show you more of the vice president's to interview.
Also, speak with a congresswoman, now a Senate candidate in Michigan reportedly warning that Harris is, in her words, underwater in her campaigns polling. Elissa Slotkin joins us ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:22]
COOPER: We're talking tonight about Vice President Harris' interview with Fox News' Bret Baier. I want to play a moment when the issue of transgender people came up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIER: Are you still in support of using taxpayer dollars to help prison inmates or detained illegal aliens to transition to another gender?
HARRIS: I will follow the law and it's a law that Donald Trump actually followed. You're probably familiar with -- now it's a public report that under Donald Trump's administration these surgeries were available to on a medical necessity basis to people in the federal prison system. And I think frankly that ad from the Trump campaign is a little bit of like throwing, you know, stones when you're living in a glass house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jonah, obviously, this is a reference to a comment she had made. I think, when she was running back in 2019 or so. How effectively have Trump and allies in the media leverage this issue which is, I mean, it's an issue, it is not really a front and center for issue except in this campaign against Harris?
GOLDBERG: My thinking is, it is pretty effective. If you talk to people in Trump world, they think it's one of the most powerful messages. You can't watch a lot of football games without seeing these ads. They think it's working on the way that all this talk about young Hispanic and Black men hemorrhaging, not hemorrhaging, but migrating in some numbers to the -- away from Harris. And they think this is one of the things that drives it because it's a culturally conservative message for that crowd.
Do I think the campaign, the election is going to hinge on it? Not really, except for the fact we're talking about such tiny numbers and just to get back to an earlier point, I agree that they're only like four to six percent of undecided Republican types in this election. But the real, the real motherlode of votes for both campaigns is to get people who like Trump or who like Harris to choose between staying home and voting.
And I think that that's what Harris is trying really, really hard to shore up. And so, is Trump and they're going to very different constituencies for that. So, again, I don't think this ad is going to -- that ad or this part of the interview is going to have that huge an effect.
COOPER: Machalagh, what else stood out to you in this interview?
CAR: I think what I'm seeing more of is just a lack of authenticity. We see it over and over again and to Jonah's point from earlier, it's good that there's a lot of attempts to shore up different constituencies different little buckets where the polls are saying they're not doing well, or that they think they can get a little bit more with Kamala Harris, it's men.
She's having a hard time with men and so now we're seeing that go to Fox News. That is men watch Fox News. We have enough trouble with African-American men. Go on Charlamagne tha God, let's see if we can get some people there.
I think the problem is, is that what they want to know is where she stands and even in that most recent clip, she didn't answer the question. She didn't tell you what she thinks, she didn't tell you -- it's all about I'm not Donald Trump and that will get you so far, but I don't know if we're at the ceiling of that. And I also don't know if the undecideds are going to be convinced on never substantively answering a question.
COOPER: Geoff, I mean, do you do believe that? I mean, do you believe that it's not enough that there's not enough specifics.
DUNCAN: Look, I think the folks that are still persuadable, the 10 percent in the middle and is probably much even tighter than that just want an adult in the room. They want somebody that shows up to work to actually work and not to pander and not to play, not to try to self- endear themselves. Kamala Harris, even in the Bret Baier interview, she showed up as an adult, right? We talk about all these gotcha moments and these fringe issues that are small fractions. I mean, look, this whether or not Ukraine is a free and sovereign nation is on the ballot in November, whether or not NATO and Western Europe remains free and unchallenged by Vladimir Putin is on the ballot in November.
Whether or not Americans have to pay $4,000.00 more because Donald Trump and Vance, 2,000 percent taxes on foreign tariffs. I mean, that's on the ballot, that to me is where the persuadable group is going to sit there and say, you know what, I've got a choice to make. I can either sit here and let the same thing play out with Donald Trump again, chaos and confusion.
Or I can make the bold crazy move of voting for a Democrat for the first time. And still be a Republican. I just voted for Kamala Harris. That's it.
COOPER: Jonah, do you see a double-standard? I mean, that Donald Trump doesn't answer a question. He answers the question he wants to be asked. He rambles, he has no specifics on anything. And never really has. People talk about Kamala Harris' appearance a lot.
Donald Trump these days is a different shade every day with a weird line down because he doesn't bother to put whatever he's putting on his face to make it that color that we're looking at right now. there. Fully consistent. Is there a double here?
[20:20:22]
GOLDBERG: It's not even a double-standard. There's one standard for Donald Trump and it's maddening, right? He lies constantly, he says things that are outrageous, and then he takes offense at people who offer mild criticism of him. And that's because he comes from the world of celebrity. The logic of celebrity applies to him. Everyone else is susceptible to logical politics and it's why we're unfair and disruptive to the system.
But it's also baked in and I wish I knew how to deal with it, but I think it's just part of the political reality.
COOPER: Yes, Jonah Goldberg, Geoff Duncan, Machalagh Carr. Thank you so much, appreciate it.
Coming up next, the former present dodges responsibility for his lie about Haitians in Ohio, yet again, eating pets, then amplifies those same lies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:25:23]
COOPER: As we mentioned earlier, CNN has learned that Fox's all-women town hall with former President Trump was packed with his supporters, which Fox did not disclose.
At the event, he declared himself the father of IVF, and claimed the real father of it, Robert Edwards, who was awarded the 2010 Nobel Prize in Medicine for his accomplishment might take issue with, were he still alive.
He also doubled down on, as he mentioned on his description of political opponents as the enemy within. And we'll talk about all that shortly.
First though, keeping them honest, how more than a month after it was initially debunked, he has just doubled down on his lie about Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So that was, September 10th. It was a lie. The former President had reason to know it was when he said it, his running mate's campaign had been told it was a lie the day before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRYAN HECK, SPRINGFIELD, OHIO CITY MANAGER: I had a call from one of Vance's staffers and asked, hey, are the rumors true? Are pets being taken and eaten by the immigrants in your community? I said no.
I said there's no substantiated evidence or proof that this is happening. It's a baseless claim. So no, it's not happening.
And then to see that continue to be re-tweeted by Vance himself the next day and then sitting there watching the presidential debate to see that that is the lie that's being shed on our community even though we've told them that it's not true, it's untrue, that's difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was a day before Donald Trump took the lie about Springfield's Haitian community national on the debate stage.
Tonight, Univision is going to be airing a taped town hall with the former president. The network released several clips, including this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
INTERPRETER: My question to you, very respectfully, is, do you really believe that these people are eating the peoples pets?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. TRUMP: Well, thank you very much. This was just reported. I was just saying what was reported. That's been reported and eating other things too, that they're not supposed to be.
But this is -- all I do is report. I have not -- I was there. I'm going to be there and we're going to take a look and I'll give you a full report when I do, but that's been in the newspapers and reported pretty broadly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, obviously, what newspapers including "The Wall Street Journal" which he probably has -- he reads or maybe or has somebody read has actually been heavily reporting is that the story is false. It began when a Springfield resident told police that she suspected her Haitian neighbors of chopping up her cat after finding meat in the backyard. As it happens, the cat, Miss Sassy, had been hiding in the basement and was found days later.
And as you saw from Springfield city manager, a moment ago, he told the Vance campaign a day before the debate at the pet eating stories were baseless, but the former president isn't repeating any of that. He's repeating a lie that he claims has been reported.
Knowingly, he's repeating this, but saying he's only repeating reports of what a lot of people are saying as he often puts it. Here he is back in 2011 defending his false claim that President Obama was not born in this country then doing what he did tonight, tacking a new falsehood on top.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TRUMP: The fact is, a lot of people are troubled with this just like I am.
COOPER: Yes, but a lot of people believe 9/11 didn't happen or --
TRUMP: The governor said that he saw -- the governor, the previous governor said that he saw the birth certificate. Now, they're saying, oh, it wasn't a birth certificate or certificate of live birth. There was supposed to be a birth certificate. I don't think it exists, Anderson, I hope it exists, but I don't think it exists.
COOPER: It wasn't the previous governor, the health director for the previous governor who we just interviewed on camera says, yes, she has actually seen it and it doesn't say --
TRUMP: Well, that's fine. Then you know what Obama should do, instead of spending millions of dollars on lawyers, he should say it's okay to release my birth certificate.
COOPER: You've said this millions of dollars on lawyers --
TRUMP: No, he can do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: He also claimed that he hired detectives and flew them to Hawaii to investigate this, which was also a lie, he did not.
That bit at the end claiming that President Obama was spending millions of dollars on lawyers over this. That wasn't true either. But as you saw with the remark tonight about Haitians in Springfield, "eating other things too" It is the way Donald Trump operates and has for years.
Perspective now from former California Republican Lieutenant Governor, Abel Maldonado, also legendary journalist and author, Carl Bernstein; and Republican strategist and Harris supporter, Ana Navarro.
So, I mean, Ana, I mean, the former president did this with birtherism. He did this with Springfield, This is clearly, I mean, this must, he must feel this work for him and it probably does work for him.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It probably does work for him because I think his followers just don't care. And it's, you know, there's a complete double standard if Kamala Harris lied with this, if Joe Biden had lied like this, they would have said he had dementia and they would have pulled him off the stage. Donald Trump, number one, never expresses regret, never apologizes, never admits that he was wrong. So that's number one.
[20:30:30]
And number two, if his lips are moving, the likelihood is he is lying. And he repeats the lie over and over and over again. He did it with January 6th. He did it with the -- with accepting the results of the election. What bigger lie is there than that? I mean, the other day I heard him lie about how he is responsible for lowering the price of insulin to $35, something that the Biden administration did. It is one of their top accomplishments. Just repeats it and repeats it on a loop and thinks that if he repeats it enough, people will get tired of seeing it as a lie.
COOPER: And Carl, repeating lies does work. I mean, repeating lies works.
CARL BERNSTEIN, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: It works, and it's the fundamental of his campaign. But what we now see in these closing weeks is that this is a campaign in which there is going to be a reaffirmation of regular political order in this country, or there's going to be a real triumph of fascism in which good, well-meaning Republicans have allowed themselves to get carried down this path and go along with this rhetoric. That is really what is --
COOPER: You really believe that?
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. Listen to General Milley saying of Donald Trump, fascist to the core, the most dangerous man in America. General Milley is a pretty level guy. Let's listen to what Donald Trump is telling us, he is telling us what he's going to do.
COOPER: General Milley, by the way, was the guy who stood next to Trump when he marched out of the White House --
BERNSTEIN: To the church.
COOPER: -- and held up the Bible that somebody handed him.
BERNSTEIN: Yes.
COOPER: And Milley regretted doing that because he was in uniform and he felt it was, looking back, felt it was inappropriate. But it is extraordinary that the top -- the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff under Trump is calling him a fascist.
BERNSTEIN: And other senior military leaders.
COOPER: The list is long.
BERNSTEIN: What we're really looking at here though is the first seditious president of the United States now seeking reelection in which he has told all of us what he will do. Court marshals for these generals. Adam Schiff, a Congressman, he wants tried for treason. He's not kidding around.
COOPER: So, Abel, you're shaking head. You don't believe that?
ABEL MALDONADO, (R) FORMER CALIFORNIA LT. GOVERNOR: No, I respectfully disagree with Carl. I -- General Mill -- speaking on General Milley, he was like, you just stated, he was standing him -- with him next to the Bible and so forth, and while --
COOPER: Which he regretted.
MALDONADO: Yeah, but a lot of these people, Anderson, when they're working for him, he's a good guy. President Trump's good when they're working for him. Donald Trump hasn't changed in his whole life. In 2016, when he ran, Donald Trump --
COOPER: Well, I don't think they're saying he was good when they were working for him. They've left and they're saying what they saw was completely terrible (ph).
MALDONADO: No, but what I'm saying is that they're only coming after President Trump after they leave, or he's been -- or they've been fired, one of the two. And on this --
COOPER: Wait a minute, so you believe highly decorated General Milley, General Kelly, who was the chief of staff, whose son died serving this country, you believe that they are making stuff up because they --
MALDONADO: No, no, I'm not saying that.
COOPER: Well, you are.
MALDONADO: What I'm saying --
COOPER: You're saying they're only saying this after they've left.
MALDONADO: You know, what I'm saying, Anderson, they worked for President Trump.
COOPER: Right. So they saw him --
MALDONADO: While they were in the White House, President Trump was a good president.
COOPER: Well, they are not saying that.
MALDONADO: And then, now, all of a sudden --
COOPER: They are not saying he was a good person.
MALDONADO: While they were cashing his check, they were working for him, they were, I mean --
COOPER: Actually General Milley was working to Pentagon. He was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
MALDONADO: But he worked at the pleasure of the president. I mean, at the end of the day, he was working for President Trump. All of a sudden, either Trump fires folks or --
COOPER: Actually, most people in the military are serving the country and -- or have sworn to defend the Constitution, not the president of the United States.
MALDONADO: But, Anderson, this is -- I'm talking how I feel, how people all of a sudden come after President Trump. Like on the dog thing, we --
COOPER: But what do you -- how you feel is not factually correct. So, you're saying things which are not factually correct.
MALDONADO: No, I really believe it's correct. I think a lot of people believe it's correct. The polls say it. I mean the poll is supporting it.
COOPER: No, right. But, what people feel and what polls show is not actually factually correct. I'm -- you're saying that they -- you are saying he was great while they were serving under him, and then for some reason, later on they're saying he's not, that's not factually correct.
MALDONADO: OK. They went to work for him for a reason, obviously, at the pleasure of the president. They went to work to help America, to help President Trump. And all of a sudden they have a disagreement, they move on, and then he's a fascist. He's a bad person.
COOPER: Well, I don't think we can know why they would work for him because I think a lot of military people would say they went to work for an administration because they felt they could perhaps temper that administration's policies.
MALDONADO: But Anderson, temper President Trump? I mean, Donald Trump in 2016 when he ran, you know who he was. You know who he is. That's who he is. Trump is not going to change ever. BERNSTEIN: Is he a fascist?
MALDONADO: I mean, no, he's not a fascist, Carl.
NAVARRO: But --
MALDONADO: He's not.
[20:35:00]
BERNSTEIN: Does he say fascistic things?
MALDONADO: I mean --
BERNSTEIN: Does he say fascistic things?
MALDONADO: I mean, come on, he's a New Yorker. He's a fighter. He's a leader.
BERNSTEIN: New Yorkers who fight don't usually invoke fascism. Does he say fascistic things day after day?
MALDONADO: I don't see --
BERNSTEIN: I ask you.
MALDONADO: Carl, I don't see that.
COOPER: But also, Abel, by the way, you're from California, the Central Park, the kids in the Central Park Five, they were actually New Yorkers. So, the idea that Donald Trump's a New Yorker and this is what New Yorkers say is just bullshit.
MALDONADO: Well, I mean, I'm from California and I mean, we look at New Yorkers, they're fighters. They're strong. They tell it like it is. They'll say it out loud. They're very --
COOPER: That's a comic book. I mean, again, we're just like, there's 8 million people in the city. And so the idea -- anyway.
NAVARRO: Listen --
MALDONADO: But, look, on the dog thing too --
NAVARRO: All of these people --
MALDONADO: You know, he said it, it was reported.
COOPER: Right.
MALDONADO: It was reported to him.
NAVARRO: And then, it was amply (ph) reported that is wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: It was reported.
MALDONADO: That's what he says.
BERNSTEIN: It was never reliably reported.
MALDONADO: Or somebody told him.
BERNSTEIN: And he's got a hell of a big staff that can find out very quickly.
NAVARRO: OK. And you think somebody would --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: So by saying it's reported implies it's been reported by some reputable report as opposed to --
NAVARRO: The owner of Miss Sassy.
COOPER: Miss Sassy saying, oh, I think this might have happened. And then, Miss Sassy actually turns out to be in the basement, which I'm very grateful for. But again, he's doubling down on this a lot.
MALDONADO: He never gives up. I mean, president Trump never gives up.
COOPER: Does that not worry you that --
MALDONADO: He will double down.
COOPER: Right. Does that not worry you that the person who may lead a country never admits a mistake or never is willing to give up, in your words, meaning --
MALDONADO: Anderson, I lived --
COOPER: -- acknowledge factually what they're saying is not the case.
MALDONADO: I lived for four years under President Trump. America lived four years under Trump. We didn't see -- I mean, we live pretty darn good when he was there.
COOPER: Again, you're just changing the --
(CROSSTALK)
MALDONADO: The wars, we were safe. I mean, I can go --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I ask, does it not concern you that anybody, Democrat or Republican, I think all politicians should admit mistakes and I admit mistakes and I try to apologize for things. Shouldn't everybody do that? MALDONADO: We're all different. We're all different. Every mind is --
COOPER: You can't say anything negative -- MALDONADO: Every mind is a different world, Anderson.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: What's interesting to me about this is, I mean, I get this from surrogates on all sides, but I find it more with Trump surrogates, the refusal to just say what you actually believe. Like, oh yeah, that's wrong, you shouldn't do that. Like, it seems like you feel an obligation to just blanketly approve everything he does. Is there anything he's done that concerns you?
MALDONADO: Well, I mean, I'm here to talk about, you were -- we're discussing the dog and the cat and so forth. And I kind of believe him when he says it was reported that this was going on.
COOPER: So there's nothing you could point to, just as Kamala Harris has asked, is there anything that would make her different than the Biden Administration?
MALDONADO: Well, I mean --
COOPER: Is there anything that you think Trump should not do or has done badly?
MALDONADO: Well, Anderson, I mean, when it comes to inflation, he lowered inflation. When it comes to the border, he sealed the border. When it comes to, I mean, crime --
NAVARRO: He didn't seal the border.
MALDONADO: -- he lowered crime.
NAVARRO: But you keep saying that for the answers.
COOPER: So, the answer is --
NAVARRO: No.
MALDONADO: On the main issues, no.
COOPER: All right, thank you. Coming up next, I'm going to speak with a Congresswoman and Senate candidate reportedly warning that Harris is underwater in her campaigns, polling in the state of Michigan. Elissa Slotkin joins us as she is locked in a close race with her Republican opponent. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:42:23]
COOPER: Battleground state Michigan could not only end up determining the results of the presidential election, but also which party controls the Senate. Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin is running for a Senate seat there and is locked in a close race with her Republican opponent, former Congressman Mike Rogers. And according to a clip obtained by Axios, Congresswoman Slotkin warned donors last month that her campaign's internal polling shows Harris is "underwater" in Michigan.
The Harris team seems to recognize just how important it is for her to win the state. Yesterday, she was in Detroit for a radio town hall. She'll be campaigning in Grand Rapids later this week. In just a moment, I'll get more on Harris' battle in Michigan from Congresswoman Slotkin and her own Senate race. First, here is Manu Raju on the high- stake Senate race.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. ELISSA SLOTKIN, (D-MI) SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm concerned about all of us running
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Democrats in Michigan are running the gauntlet. As the GOP woos blue collar voters, the war in Gaza splits the Democratic coalition and the economy drives voter anxiety.
RAJU: How nervous are you about November?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very nervous.
RAJU (voice-over): So as she battles former GOP Congressman Mike Rogers for a key Senate seat, Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin is sounding the alarm.
SLOTKIN: Michigan, we know what happened in 2016 when Democrats took Michigan for granted and we went the wrong direction.
RAJU (voice-over): Michigan could determine control of the House and Senate, and Slotkin and Rogers are in a dead heat.
MIKE ROGERS, (R-MI) SENATE CANDIDATE: Let's elect Donald Day Trump.
RAJU (voice-over): Even as both candidates align themselves with the top of their tickets --
SLOTKIN: When the vice president comes, you go.
RAJU (voice-over): Slotkin is trying to show some separation despite backing the Biden-Harris agenda.
SLOTKIN: I'm not immediately saying, rah, rah, I'm on board. I can have those conversations with Kamala Harris when we disagree. Mike Rogers can't disagree with Donald Trump.
RAJU (voice-over): Rogers who served in the House for 15 years had been a Trump critic, particularly after the 2020 election and January 6th.
ROGERS: I think we lost the Georgia two Republican Senate seats because of Donald Trump and his chaotic leadership style. I think yesterday broke the spell that so many people had about Donald Trump. Clearly, his actions led to that --
Well, you're damn right he had responsibility for this. RAJU: You even said that he was clearly responsible for the acts of January 6th. Do you stand by any of those (inaudible)?
ROGERS: Well, I didn't say he was clearly responsible, but here's the thing.
RAJU: But do you stand by your criticism that you had after 2020?
ROGERS: Even Donald Trump said, I was tough but fair. I'll take that all day long. We're going to have differences amongst our party members all the time. All my criticism is out there and I'm not walking away from anything.
[20:45:00]
What I am telling you is, now, we have choices.
RAJU: I guess, the criticism you'd get is that you evolved on Trump for political expediency, to align yourself, because you need to win this state.
ROGERS: I think that's nonsense. Look at the issues, I wouldn't line up with Kamala Harris on anything, nothing.
RAJU (voice-over): But as Trump said this last week --
DONALD TRUMP, (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Our whole country will end up being like Detroit if she's your president.
RAJU (voice-over): Rogers had no complaints.
RAJU: Where you OK with what he said?
ROGERS: You know what? This is interesting. I spent a lot of time in Detroit and here's what the people of Detroit have been telling me. They are frustrated that they are not making improvements. $38,000 in median wage in Detroit, $68,000 out-state.
RAJU: He sort of said that the rest of the country would look like Detroit.
ROGERS: No. What he was talking about is there are schools that are failing, and the Democrats every year, keep saying I'm going to help you, and their schools have deteriorated.
RAJU (voice-over): Democrats seizing on those remarks.
SLOTKIN: What do I think of someone who comes to Detroit and then dumps on Detroit? It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
RAJU (voice-over): On the airwaves, Rogers facing Democratic attacks over abortion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm scared that Mike Rogers will continue to take away my rights. RAJU (voice-over): But it's Slotkin who has been on the defensive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Slotkin voted to allow states to ban gasoline- powered vehicles. That would crush Michigan's economy.
RAJU (voice-over): She has fielded relentless criticism for her votes to allow state limits on gas-powered vehicles, prompting her to cut ads like this.
SLOTKIN: I live on a dirt road, nowhere near a charging station, so I don't own an electric car.
RAJU (voice-over): Another challenge, an Arab American group is now urging the state's sizable Arab population to sit out of the Presidential and Senate races over Israel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The voters in our community are very angry.
RAJU (voice-over): All as a GOP group seeks to dampen Democratic support by targeting Arab Americans with ads saying Harris and Slotkin will always have Israel's back.
Manu Raju, CNN, Warren, Michigan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Join us now is Michigan Democratic Congresswoman, U.S. Senate candidate Elissa Slotkin. Congresswoman, thanks very much for being with us. Axios reported that you've warned in recent weeks that Harris numbers are underwater in Michigan. Can you talk about what data you've seen and what's -- how you view things tonight, both in her race and in your race for Democrats?
SLOTKIN: Yeah, thanks for having me. I mean, look, we've had so many polls just over the last few weeks, internal, public polling, and they all have the races in Michigan exceptionally close. Some have me winning by a couple of points within the margin of error, some having her win within the margin of error. It just -- it's going to be a nail-biter. Our independent voters, our swing voters almost always help decide elections here in Michigan and it's going to be a nail- biter.
COOPER: Back in August, you said it was hard to overstate the amount of energy in Michigan that had been generated by Vice President Harris' entrance into the race. Has her -- is there a way -- do you believe that her campaign should be trying to harness that energy or improve on it?
SLOTKIN: Oh, I mean, I think her coming to the top of the ticket was like splitting an electron. It just like created its own energy. We saw voter registration and volunteerism go up precipitously. So, I think they have seized upon that. I think now, we're into traditional swing state fight. We're in for those voters who maybe don't know her as well, who are just trying to figure out who they're going to vote for. And in Michigan, we have a lot of split ticket voters, people who really vote the person over the party. So, I think what you're seeing with her coming back and back and back, which is great, is her trying to make sure to get to every corner of our state. That's what you need to do. We know in Michigan, if you sleep on us, we will go the other way. So I think she's trying to sort of show with her own presence how much she cares about the state.
COOPER: What is the ground game like in Michigan for Democrats, for Republicans? What is the voter turnout efforts? What is that machine like?
SLOTKIN: Yeah, I mean, the best thing that she did was the day after she fleeted up to the top of the ticket, she kept all of the Biden folks, the 200 and staff, 50 offices, just a plan that was sort of already in place. She inherited that, made it her own, but kept all those people on, so we didn't miss a beat on the field operation. So we've got just hundreds of thousands of doors being knocked, mailers are out, phone calls are happening. I mean, it is -- you come to Michigan, it is hard to miss that we are in the last 20 days of a hyper-competitive election.
On the Republican side, the Republican Party has basically collapsed in on itself like a dying star in Michigan. I mean, they've had a real trouble at the top of their party, financial troubles. And so, the only door knocking I see from them are paid volunteers, people -- not volunteers, paid staff who go and knock doors. So, the ground game is there. But it's wall-to-wall attack ads. Detroit media market is the most expensive in the country right now because of everyone wanting to pay to get ads on there, myself included. So, it is -- the energy here is intense around these last 20 days
[20:50:00]
COOPER: We're seeing record-setting early voting in Georgia in the last two days, double the first day what it was in 2020. It's a different part of the country, obviously, but like Michigan, it is a swing state. Do you think those early numbers signal something about voter interest/enthusiasm?
SLOTKIN: I hope so. We're actually seeing the same thing with people turning in their absentee ballots here in Michigan. We haven't started early voting, but it's just been amazing how many more ballots have already been turned in, how many were requested. So, we think that portends good voter turnout. And now, it's just literally about that ground game and making sure everyone's sort of key voters really come out.
COOPER: Congresswoman Slotkin, thank you for your time.
SLOTKIN: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up, a new twist in the Menendez brothers' case that captured national attention more than three decades ago. They've been in prison ever since. New evidence being weighed in the case and what their surviving family members have to say about what should happen to the brothers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:00]
COOPER: After more than 30 years in prison, relatives of the Menendez Brothers held a press conference today, calling for their release following new evidence in their parents' murders. The brothers were sentenced to life without parole in 1996. They've long claimed they suffered years of physical and sexual abuse from their father. In a newly released undated letter shared by the LA County District Attorney, Erik Menendez wrote, he's "been trying to avoid dad" and adds, "I never know when it's going to happen, and it's driving me crazy. Every night, I stayed up thinking he might come in."
The brother's attorneys argue the letter corroborates the sexual abuse claims. More on the case now from CNN's Jean Casarez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LYLE MENENDEZ, CHARGED WITH FIRST-DEGREE MURDER: Hello, is this emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, police.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lyle Menendez made the original 911 call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the problem?
L. MENENDEZ: I'm trying to kill my parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pardon me?
L. MENENDEZ: I'm trying to kill my parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were they shot?
L. MENENDEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were shot?
L. MENENDEZ: Yes.
CASAREZ (voice-over): A wealthy Beverly Hills couple dead in their home. It was 1989. Their sons, Lyle and Erik Menendez were 21 and 18 at the time. Law enforcement was working to track down who committed this horrific crime. When Erik's therapist's mistress said she knew the truth, she overheard Erik confess to the crime, and all of it was on tape.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I planned the perfect murder. I carried out the perfect murder. Do you remember telling Diane Sawyer that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Law enforcement got the recorded therapy sessions. And in March 1990, Erik and Lyle were taken into custody. Three years later, it went to trial. LESLIE ABRAMSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I want to see him walk down a street not in chains, not in shackles, and not with a deputy sheriff standing next to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are human beings and they had the right to live.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The brothers admitted they killed their wealthy parents with shotguns, one night, as they were watching television at home.
L. MENENDEZ: I ran around and shot my mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where did you shoot her?
L. MENENDEZ: (Inaudible) I shot her close.
CASAREZ (voice-over): But they alleged it was after years of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of their father.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, do you recall the first time that he wasn't nice during the sex?
L. MENENDEZ: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you were 11?
L. MENENDEZ: I was 11.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The jury deadlock during deliberations, a mistrial was declared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are still unable to reach unanimous decisions.
CASAREZ (voice-over): The retrial began in 1995. Lyle chose to not testify this time, but Erik did, saying the brothers had been repeatedly raped by their father for years. But Erik and Lyle were both convicted.
DOMINICK DUNNE, JOURNALIST: Both brothers are guilty of murder in the first-degree. There was no weeping that was at all visible or audible.
CASAREZ (voice-over): They each got two life sentences without the possibility of parole and so far have served more than 30 years.
DAVID CONN, PROSECUTOR: We felt all along that it was a strong case, and eventually they would be convicted of first-degree murder. I felt satisfied that they were sentenced to life prison for the rest of their lives.
CASAREZ (voice-over): Appeals have gone nowhere. But now the defense asked that this verdict be looked at with a fresh set of eyes.
MARK GERAGOS, MENENDEZ ATTORNEY: I think we're at a point now where any reasonable person taking a look at this case believes they should be out. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Jean Casarez joins us now. I mean, how likely is it they'll be released?
CASAREZ (on camera): Think there's a possibility. There's just this momentum that is building because Kim Kardashian went to the prison. The family wants them to be released. There's been a Netflix recreation, and there's just this momentum. However, it's a judge that determines if they will be released. This is a legal case. It's not policy. Right? It is a legal case. And the judge needs to look to see if in fact, there is new evidence which would be a letter that has been discovered since the trial that Erik wrote his cousin before he murdered his parents saying, my dad is doing things to me.
And then there's also the fact of rehabilitation. The District Attorney Gascon is saying that they've been rehabilitated. There's a law in California, and you can tell that Gascon, who is up for reelection, is really going to look at this case fast.
COOPER: There are actually two life sentences for the judge to consider for the killing, both of the father and the mother.
CASAREZ (on camera): This is such an important point. It is two life sentences, and they are alleging that their father sexually assaulted them. The new evidence could go toward that conviction. But with their mother, they said that they murdered her because they believed she knew what the father was doing. So what about that conviction? It's all up to a judge.
COOPER: Wow. Jean Casarez, thank you so much. Appreciate it. You saw Dominick Dunne in that piece -- his son, Griffin has actually written a remarkable book about growing up with his dad and his mom. I highly recommend it. The book is by Griffin Dunne. Jean, thank you so much.
The source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. See you tomorrow.
