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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Soon: Harris Faces Undecided Voters At CNN Town Hall, Aired: 8- 9p ET

Aired October 23, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: And thanks to all of you as always for being with us, but please stay with me because I'll be joined by my colleague Jake Tapper for a special edition of "AC360" starting now.

[20:00:24]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Good evening, I'm Jake Tapper along with my colleague Erin Burnett. Welcome as we count down together to the main event. CNN's Presidential Town Hall with Vice President Kamala Harris begins very shortly.

A major moment in this unprecedented race is about to happen here in Pennsylvania, the battleground with the biggest electoral price. A critical slice of the electorate might ultimately reach their decisions tonight with only 13 days left before election day.

BURNETT: And, Jake, you know, it is going to be an audience full of undecided and persuadable voters who are going to be able to put their questions and concerns directly to the Democratic nominee.

And you know, we actually haven't seen Harris in this setting very much. This is a major primetime town hall. Of course, Jake, because she only entered the race. I mean, can you believe it, 94 days ago.

TAPPER: And this may be the last big live event of its kind before election day. There are no more debates. This could have been a debate night if you remember, the vice president accepted CNN's invitation, former President Donald Trump opted to not.

He also chose to not appear for a solo town hall of his own. So it is Vice President Harris' stage alone this evening.

BURNETT: That's right, important to note that Jake, we did hope to do that debate and we did, of course, invite Trump for a town hall.

Trump is in battleground, Georgia though, right now as his campaign is facing one of its biggest challenges in these final days, which is the reemergence of Trump's longest serving chief-of-staff, General John Kelly, who was coming out with an 11th hour warning about Trumps praise for Hitler, saying that he would govern like a dictator if elected again.

And the vice president has seized on that today, she could do so again tonight in this town hall, the main event is, Jake, you were saying kicks off at nine Eastern -- Jake. TAPPER: Let's first go to CNN's Jeff Zeleny, who has more on what to expect during tonight's town hall. Jeff, set the stage for us.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, as you said, Donald Trump will not be on stage, but he will be at the center of the conversation and he certainly has been really for the last several days as Vice President Harris has been seizing on every remark he made, including talking about the generals. Of course, those new reports in the waning days of this campaign.

The vice president has a couple of objectives tonight. Talking to her advisors, they said she still wants to persuade some of those undecided and persuadable voters over to her side. She also wants to motivate some people who are likely to vote for her, but are either have not yet made a plan to do so, or are ambivalent about voting at all.

She has 13 days left to do it, even as millions of Americans have voted more than a million here in battleground Pennsylvania, more than 25 million across the country. So her objective is to fill in some of those blanks, really try and close the sale with some of those voters here, but there's no question the former president is at the center of it all. She calls him unhinged. She called him unstable.

Millions and hundreds of millions of dollars of television ads are behind a similar message here. We're learning that she's going to be closing next week with a campaign speech on The Ellipse. That of course is the spot just outside the White House, where Donald Trump gave his speech on the morning of January 6, 2021 that led to the attack on the Capitol.

So this is now he is central part of her message. The question is, is that going to move voters? So many voters as we travel around are concerned about the economy, they're concerned about immigration, inflation. She is closing, of course, with really drawing sharp distinctions with the former president talking about democracy, abortion rights as well.

But tonight, those unscripted questions from those undecided and persuadable voters certainly will be revealing as she tries to fill in some more blanks and get more voters to her side. Advisers believe this is a deadlocked race in all seven battlegrounds, none more important than right here in Pennsylvania -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much. Let's discuss with my panel, John King, let me start with you.

So we just learned that Kamala Harris plans to give her closing argument at The Ellipse where Trump gave his speech right before the Capitol was attacked. What do you think about that decision?

That's obviously a decision focused on portraying Donald Trump as an existential threat to democracy and not on pocketbook issues which I think a lot of undecided voters are really focused on.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think their challenge to fill in the back part, to use that event, to use this event, but then she used that event at that site. Hallowed ground even before January 6th. You're at The Ellipse, you're right there, the White House, the National Monument is right there. The Capitol is right up the road.

It's one of the most spectacular places. It is a stage of American democracy. This one of the places where, no matter how long we've lived in Washington, DC, you walk by that, you stop, you pause and you say, wow. So can she make a wow-moment of this? Yes, draw the contrast with Trump.

[20:05:12]

You do not want that man standing back here. You did not want him living in that House, right there. You do not want him effecting what happens up there and you point to the monuments and you just say, think about this.

That's important. It's incredibly important to frame the choice and to remind people what they don't like about Donald Trump. But as, Jeff noted, when you travel these color counties right here around your hometown of Philadelphia, you still run into voters who don't want to vote for Donald Trump, but are not convinced they should vote for her.

And if you read her website, I like the housing plan. She says she's going to close the border. But who is she? Is she a president? That's the bigger challenge. We can go through a lot of issues and voters will mention issues, but can you close your eyes and say if Kim Jong- un launches a missile, if there's another pandemic, or there's some crisis we are not even thinking about in the age of AI, is she a president?

A lot of voters say he's done the job. I don't like a lot of the stuff that comes with it, but he's done the job.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT AND ANCHOR OF "NEWSNIGHT WITH ABBY PHILLIP": There is not going to be any one thing that Kamala Harris does between now and election day that's going to make or break this race for her. The challenge right now is that she has to do both things, which a lot of candidates actually are not in that position because her campaign started 90 days ago, right?

So, she is both persuading and she is turning out voters and so in that process, that means that she really just has to be everywhere all at once for a lot of voters, a huge swath of the electorate. That is harder than it sounds, and it just means trying everything, penetrating in every possible way because the people who at this moment don't know what they're going to do, aren't sure if they're going to leave their houses. They are not on the campaign website. They're not going there.

They need to get this information in all the different ways as they're walking through their lives, as they're there on the internet, their scrolling through. So, it's an incredible challenge of just real stamina, I think right now, for the Harris campaign to just be out there. DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And that word 'persuade', that is such an important word because it's what the Harris campaign is still doing. And this is the point you were making, Abby, is that we're so close to election day that at this point in most campaigns they feel, the campaigns feel that the people who are going to vote for them have already decided. And it's just getting out their voters.

TAPPER: Right, GOTV, Get Out To Vote.

BASH: They're doing that but they're not convinced that there aren't people who are not yet sure about her who can -- who are still gettable. Which is why this kind of event is so important to the campaign.

TAPPER: Let's talk about that. The one thing I was going to say is like Georgia, Donald Trump lost Georgia by 11,000 votes. In 2016, he won, which one was that in Michigan was it 10,000 votes. I forgot to Wisconsin --

PHILLIP: Fourteen thousand.

TAPPER: Anyway, my point is, this Town Hall actually could have huge impact on the election.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Well, and that's why it's going to be so interesting to see how she is on stage tonight. How she conducts herself. Obviously, she has a lot of experience with town halls. She's done many of them with CNN. It was a very different kind of town hall when she was doing it in 2019 and running to the left in her primary for the Democrats.

But coming out tonight, you how does she handle Donald Trump? How does she handle these questions from the voters that we're talking about that she's trying to reach, that are persuadable that are undecided, and what that looks like.

I think the choice to go to The Ellipse is an interesting one because that was of course a day where so many of Donald Trump's, members of his administration, his own cabinet resigned that day. But how this has been remembered now four years later by even those same people is completely different.

I mean, Betsy DeVos, who is his Secretary of Education, resigned because of how he acted on January 6th. She was at a donor dinner with him the other night just to give you a window into the insight of how a lot of the Republicans who disavowed him that day have come back into the fold.

So how does she handle that in terms of rubbing up the Democratic base and getting them excited, but also seeking to turn out those disaffected Republicans that she has been trying to reach.

TAPPER: That's such a weird thing to resign from a Cabinet because you're so shocked and stunned by the appalling behavior that happened on the Capitol and then go to a donor dinner four years later. COLLINS: Yes, but how many Republicans, do you know who were out there that day so -- you know, and that they thought Trump was losing his influence and now here he is obviously within steps of the White House again.

BASH: And it's not just the boldfaced names like a Betsy DeVos or people with very deep pockets like a Betsy DeVos. It's also rank and file voters. It's the Harris campaign that is telling us that the way they see Donald Trump is more popular than ever.

I mean, how many times have you guys heard over the past eight years from Democrats saying, well, he's got this ceiling and he's not going to get above the ceiling. They're not saying that anymore.

KING: He still may have that ceiling.

BASH: He might but they're not so sure.

KING: Yes, but the question is, can he get to 50? And I would argue, the data tells you no, and anecdotally probably not, in most of the battleground states, can Donald Trump get to 50? But the question is, can she get to 49.5? And this conversation, it doesn't hurt her, but it doesn't necessarily help her.

We are talking about Republicans who left Donald Trump coming back to Donald Trump, there are Republicans like Lindsey Graham who left him ten times and come back ten times.

[20:10:09]

This conversation does not -- but it doesn't help her. Again, George W. Bush ran on compassionate conservative Barack Obama was hoping change. Bill Clinton was putting people first run on your side. What is Kamala Harris, Donald Trump is close the border, cut your taxes, right?

That's how people process it. What is Kamala Harris? What's so --

PHILLIP: That's why I don't think -- if The Ellipse speech ultimately is another kind of reference to January 6th, and that's it. I think that would be a huge mistake, because that's not the territory that this election is being decided on.

Right now, the voters who are not sure what they're going to do, they probably don't like Donald Trump very much. But to your point, Jake, they need to understand that she is a sturdy leader.

They want to believe that she can be president, that she can handle what the presidency comes with and there is something about, you know, if you are going to do this, if you're going to create a symbolic moment to show that you are in the space that represents American democracy, that's a good point to make, but she has to convince people that she has the gravitas for the job and for some voters, for all kinds of different reasons, some of them, some of it sexism, some of it is other things, for a lot of voters that is still an unanswered question. TAPPER: Yes, and also they want to know what is she going to do for me?

PHILLIP: Yes.

TAPPER: Milk is $7.00 a gallon so --

PHILLIP: Absolutely. Can she handle those economic challenges?

TAPPER: Right, exactly. Everyone stick around. We got a lot more to talk about, much more to come as were getting close to the start of our town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris.

Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg is here with insight on Harris' closing strategy in these final days.

Plus, brand new early voting numbers, actual votes.

And we're going to check in live on the ground in Georgia where Donald Trump is responding to his longest serving chief-of-staff, Marine General John Kelly tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:16:20]

BURNETT: And welcome back, we're counting down to CNN's town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris. She just arrived at the event site. Her opponent, former President Trump, is in battleground Georgia tonight and our Alayna Treene is traveling with the Trump campaign.

She's just outside Atlanta where he's holding a rally tonight. Alayna, he is responding to his former chief-of-staff, to General Kelly, what's he saying?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER : Yes, well, so far, during these remarks on stage, he hasn't, but he did post on Truth Social. I can read you some of what he wrote on his social media website today. He said, excuse me, but essentially he was attacking, I don't have that quote right in front of me, but essentially he was attacking John Kelly, arguing that he was making these comments because he's fell out of favor with Donald Trump.

He claimed that none of this was true. Essentially, everything that we had been hearing, his aides were saying as well. I have some in front of me. So, here's what Trump said. He said, "Thank you for your support against a total degenerate named John Kelly, who made up a story out of pure Trump derangement syndrome, hatred. This guy had to qualities which don't work well together."

Again, he went on to attack him as being dumb and other things, but I do want to talk about what's happening here in Georgia tonight, Erin, because there has been some very interesting comments made here tonight.

First of all, this is a massive stadium and there have been very high profile speakers that includes people like Tucker Carlson, RFK, Jr., Charlie Kirk, who is the founder of Turning Points Action, who is putting on this rally tonight. You also heard from Tulsi Gabbard and country music star, Jason Aldean.

But one thing that is new that I haven't heard us when Tucker Carlson was speaking tonight, he started to say that if Donald Trump were to win, it would be like, "Daddy's home." Daddy is coming home and he said that Trump, like God loves all of his children talking about the mainstream media in his words. And Democrats and said that Trump would need to give them a good spanking.

Now, this is something that crowd went wild for here. There are thousands of people here. And when Trump came on stage, as you can see speaking behind me, they started screaming and chanting "Daddy's home" and "Daddy Don."

So this is something I have not heard at a Trump rally so far, but I can tell you the vibe in the room tonight does almost feel like a mini RNC and we have heard Trump so far. He's just going through his typical stump speech. He's talking about how bad Harris is for the border. He's talking about his record on the economy, but I'm sure were going to hear some of those personal attacks increase any moment now on Harris. As we've been hearing over the past several days -- Erin.

BURNETT: Thank you, Alayna, and of course, we're waiting to hear what he will say on that. And that's where I was going to begin, but then --

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Daddy?

BURNETT: -- I guess you're supposed to call her Daddy and you call him and he answered now, I mean, okay Daddy's coming home.

AXELROD: Yes, that's weird.

BURNETT: Oh my God.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I could not think of a worse closing message, if you're trying to woo female voters. It's like they're actively chasing out of tent of the Republican Party by being as creepy as humanly possible.

So first, call it referring yourself as Daddy and giving people a spanking, I can't believe I'm saying that on television. And then attacking a former four-star general and a gold star father as a low life and a low IQ person. I mean, that's your closing message about a week-and-a-half out from the election day.

I can't imagine that's what Urban would have advised.

AXELROD: You know, what's been interesting throughout this campaign and we've talked about it here before, is it's like the campaign is doing one thing and he's kind of doing whatever he feels like doing in the moment. The campaign has had a very disciplined message from start to finish on their TV ads and they have to do with continuation of Biden policies. She's out of the mainstream and so on.

And then he just -- rather an amplifying those messages because he'll say it off the prompter, but then he says something that's kind of crazy, that gets covered, that's what people are talking about.

[20:20:16]

BURNETT: Well, now I guess I just want to blame Tucker Carlson for that one.

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm going to blame Tucker Carlson for that. It's Tucker's fault. Listen America, it's Tucker Carlson's fault, it's Tucker Carlson's fault, not Donald Trump's.

Listen, I like the joyful Donald Trump, all right, we saw -- I like the Donald Trump, if it was me, if I was in charge of this, I'd have Black barbershops in the Bronx. Winner, winner chicken dinner. Steelers' game, the Steelers' game, Popeyes' or what where would we go, where should we go, okay.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't know, you can go to your therapist, it's where you'd go.

URBAN: Okay, listen, so, the Steelers' game, right, the McDonald's, he's on offense. The Al Smith Dinner. He's really good, he's on offense, he's winning in that situation, those situations, people see Trump there like, I like that Donald Trump, I like that version. He's on offense, Kamala Harris is out calling him Nazi, Hitleresque, she's on defense.

JONES: By the way, that's not Kamala Harris, it's actually the former head of the joint chief-of-staff and his own chief-of-staff.

URBAN: I thought that was the chief-of-staff.

JONES: Well, his own chief-of-staff and I think that it's very -- it should be very sobering because yeah, he's a great con-man, Donald Trump. He distracts you with all kinds of shenanigans and silly stuff and he puts his clowns up on stage and say nonsense, and we talk about that.

Meanwhile, literally four-star generals are screaming that they are afraid that this man is going to do grave harm to America. And so, it's not an accident that you've got people like Tucker Carlson talk about Big Daddy or whatever because he knows we're going to be talking about Big Daddy and not about our Constitution --

ERIN: Yes, Daddy is unusual, if you've given him Big Daddy, maybe we could've taken that particular one.

AXELROD: Here's my question. I feel as deeply as anyone about that. I think if you really ask Dave Urban, who's a career military guy, I think he has great respect for John Kelly and so I --

URBAN: I feel sorry.

AXELROD: But the question is, is all this stuff going to move the voters they need to move? And I have -- I mean, that's the bet they're making.

I'm wondering whether it's better for her to be in suburban malls than the National Mall. I'm wondering whether she should be talking as much about the stability of family finances as the stability of Trump.

Making the point that because he is so -- you know, he's not going to spend one minute thinking about your housing prices or how do you pay for taking care of your mother because he's going to be filled with vengeance and he's going to be doing all that, so that's the crazy that relates to people's lives.

I hope in this town hall meeting that she addresses some of it.

JONES: I hope so too and I also just want to give Kamala Harris some credit for some courage here, because people a few months ago, if you look back, oh, she's hiding, all she's doing is getting up on stages and giving speeches. She won't ever talk to real people. She don't ever talk to a reporter, then she talked to every reporter on earth, she talked to Charlamagne tha God. She talked to everybody and people at the shop about that.

And now, most people would not take the kind of risk she's taking tonight. She is walking out into an unscripted environment. Anybody could say anything at any time and you're going to see in real-time who she is and it's a teabag theory of politics in that whatever is in you comes out in hot water.

AXELROD: You never heard that yourself though.

BURNETT: David, I want to say that Trump is Trump -- we wanted to have a debate tonight, we were eager to be having that debate, he said, no, she said, yes. He also is not doing a town hall and she is.

URBAN: Yes, because I think he feels like he doesn't need to. He's doing these rallies. Listen, when you're thinking of momentum in your head you'd do the things he's doing right now. When you're behind and you think you're behind, you do the things she's doing.

BURNETT: But where --

URBAN: Listen, let me just say this, about what Van said, Kamala Harris has been out there. She's been doing lots of interviews and she's been doing pretty terribly at them. Different worldview, okay. I watched the other night with one of our -- with Hallie Jackson on NBC asking simple questions, couldn't give her answers.

She was asking her about who you support -- you said you're supporting for --

GRIFFIN: Okay, with due respect though, Donald Trump was on Fox News and he's asked what's your appeal to Nikki Haley voters, he spent the entire time trashing Nikki Haley and saying how badly he beat her.

AXELROD: Maybe he misunderstood the question.

GRIFFIN: But Kamala Harris, speaking at The Ellipse to remind people of January 6th and him citing that violence is to cater to the 158,000 Republicans who turned out in a primary in Pennsylvania to vote for Nikki Haley to say this is a permission structure because --

URBAN: You know what, I would say 148,000 of them were Democrats probably, I don't buy it.

AXELROD: The question is, how much are they at this point, do you think those hundred -- do you think the Nikki Haley voters have forgotten January 6th?

GRIFFIN: I think that they need to be reminded of the stakes of this election. I do, I hear from them constantly and I get that I live in an echo chamber as a Nikki Haley voter. I've never had so many lifelong Republicans who are not supporting the Republican nominee. And it's the decision are you leaving the top of the ticket blank or you biting the bullet and voting for Harris?

[20:25:09]

BURNETT: And a quick follow though, why has he waited so long to appear on stage with Nikki Haley, and not just that he disparaged her in the interview as -- you pointed out in Fox.

URBAN: No, I think it's a joint decision. I don't think Nikki Haley is rushing to join Trump on stage, I think -- she's got a political future, she wants to figure out what she's going to do in her life, and so, I think that she's just trying to --

BURNETT: All right, well, we'll all be here all night because, of course, we are getting ready for the main event and all over the map, we're going to get an early read on who has voted so far. We will keep hearing record day after day after day. So, who are they? More from CNN's special coverage coming up in a couple of minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:14]

TAPPER: Welcome back. We are only 30 minutes away from CNN's Town Hall with Vice President Kamala Harris. Election Day is less than two weeks away. Millions of votes have already been cast. Let's check in with CNN's Pamela Brown, who's at the voting desk. Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, the margin is razor thin in key battleground states according to the polls, and events like tonight's Town Hall in Pennsylvania could be what moves the needle for some voters. So far, more than 24.7 million Americans have already voted in this year's presidential election, according to data from 47 states and D.C., and we still have just under two weeks to go for early voting. Let's take a closer look here at the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

I know, Jake, that's where you grew up, a place that very well could decide who wins this election. 1.1 million voters have already voted early. 61 percent of those voters are registered Democrats compare with 29 percent of registered Republicans. Overall, the early voting number is down there compared to 2020, and that's the case for registered Democrats, as well as you see here on this pie chart. But when it comes to registered Republicans, that number is actually up compared to 2020.

Now, Pennsylvania won't start processing mail-in ballots until Election Day, but election officials I've been speaking with there are optimistic. We're going to find out sooner than in 2020 when it took five days. I spoke to Philadelphia City Commissioner before coming on, and he told me that new technology to open ballot envelopes more quickly, combined with fewer mail-in ballots this cycle, will lead to a faster count in Pennsylvania's largest city, Jake.

TAPPER: Pamela, do we have any indication at all as to why more Republicans might be voting early this cycle than they did in 2020?

BROWN: Well, Jake, for starters, there was definitely a change in the GOP's rhetoric around early voting compared to 2020 when, as you'll recall, Donald Trump railed against it. Now, Trump appears to be encouraging it, saying in an interview earlier today that he will be voting early himself and his running mate, Senator J.D. Vance also said today that if Republicans don't vote early and by mail, they're going to "Get killed at the ballot box."

So, we can't say for sure if that rhetoric is behind more early voting in some battleground states like Wisconsin, where on its first day, today, the numbers exceeded the first day of early voting compared to 2020. The Elections Commission says more than 97,000 people voted compared to more than 75,000 in 2020. We should know -- we don't have the party breakdown in Wisconsin, and just like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin won't start processing those mail-in ballots until the morning of Election Day, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Pamela Brown, thanks so much. Appreciate it. John King may be here with us, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the magic wall with him --

(LAUGH)

TAPPER: -- a little baby wall. John, give us a look at where the electoral map stands right now.

KING: So, let's start. We do have the magic tablet. We have the mini magic here. Let's start with where we are. As Pam just noted, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and you know this, all of us know this from past elections, but it's Jake Tapper's birthplace, it matters the most. So where are we right now? Let's just tap down in here.

We're in Delaware County. Joe Biden won 63 percent of the vote here, right? These suburbs, when I started doing this, used to be Republican or Republican leaning. They are safe blue territory now, but watch this number on election night, right? In the first election in the suburbs, post the Dobbs decision, does Donald Trump improve his standing in the suburbs? Let's say Donald Trump doesn't have to improve his standing in the suburbs a lot. Look at 2016, 37.2. You say, oh, John, that's just a point. That's just a point, yeah. But a point here and a point or two there makes a difference.

Donald Trump needs to improve his standing in the suburbs to have a chance to win the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Vice President Harris, the flip side, if you're going to lose a little bit in urban areas, maybe black men goes down a little bit, maybe Latino men goes down a little bit. Can you boost it in the suburbs in the first post-Roe election? This place and this race is a defining challenge. So where does that matter when you come out to this map? It all matters because as we know, as we come to the race for 270, and we can get into this more throughout the night and the next 12 days, here's where they are right now. 226, safe we believe for Harris. 219, safe for Trump.

Well, of all the yellow states, the battlegrounds, this Pennsylvania is the biggest prize, 19 electoral votes. If Harris can do that, and that Michigan, and that Wisconsin, just hold the blue wall, she is most likely the next president of the United States. So, this is the biggest prize. If Donald Trump gets this, it makes her math a lot more complicated, his math a lot more easy. So Pennsylvania is the biggest price, which is why she agreed to do the Town Hall here, which is why both campaigns are spending more money here than any other state. There's other ways to get there, but if you're trying to get to 270, getting that 19 is huge.

TAPPER: I'm just having a flashback right now because I remember 2020, Donald Trump did better in Philly in 2020 than he had done in 2016.

KING: Yes.

TAPPER: But of course, his campaign rhetoric was they stole it in Philly.

KING: Right.

TAPPER: That's not where he lost the election.

KING: No, he did not.

TAPPER: He actually did better in Philadelphia. It was all the suburban voters that he was alienating.

KING: Same in Wisconsin. Hillary Clinton did better in Milwaukee than Joe Biden did. That was not the problem. It is Joe Biden surged in the suburbs. That was the post-COVID, we want an adult in the White House election.

[20:35:00]

And Joe Biden won higher in the suburbs, and Joe Biden did better with some of the white, blue collar workers in other places. Again, on the margins, moved it just a little bit. Voters who say if Donald Trump can get half a point more here or a point more there, why does that matter? Because these elections are decided, again, by so -- such a close margin. Let's quickly -- just to this state. I mean, think of how big Pennsylvania is, right? Think of how big Pennsylvania is.

TAPPER: It's very big.

KING: It's the 2016 map -- was decided by 44,000 votes, right? That's half the crowd in an Eagles game or a little more than half the crowd in an Eagles game. You come back to 2020, 81,000 votes.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: (Inaudible) is not a family game (ph)?

TAPPER: I don't know, on a good day.

(LAUGH)

KING: 81,000 votes, I mean, that's literally a football crowd decided this state in 2020. So, that's why everyone matters and every margin within these subgroups, including right here in the suburbs matter.

COLLINS: And the Trump team is trying to read into the early voting. I mean, obviously, Trump has changed. I mean, he goes back and forth despite what Lara Trump says, despite what J.D. Vance says, Trump goes back and forth on early voting. He says he's going to early vote himself, I should note, and has in the past.

But this shows that they're trying to read into these numbers just as much as we are. But it's such a different election than 2020. We're not living through a pandemic, that it is hard to know, you know, what the numbers signify.

KING: The more people who vote early, the better you can target in the final days because you know who has voted. That's all public record.

TAPPER: Right.

KING: And so, then you can go knock -- you know, if none of you vote and I want you all to vote for me, I have to knock on all four of your doors if you haven't early voted. If two of you have early voted, I only have to focus on two of you.

BASH: Well, Chad, Abby --

KING: That's why the campaigns want you to early vote.

(LAUGH)

TAPPER: You have my vote, John.

(LAUGH)

TAPPER: Do not -- do not bother me at home. Do not door knock.

(LAUGH) TAPPER: Everyone stand by, Secretary Pete Buttigieg is here. He is going to talk about the stakes for Vice President Harris this evening. We're also going to get his reaction to what we heard from John Kelly, Trump's longest serving Chief of Staff, in "The Atlantic" and "The New York Times," as Harris prepares to face voters in this critical battleground, Pennsylvania. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:41:25]

BURNETT: All right. In less than 20 minutes, Vice President Kamala Harris will answer questions directly from the very voters who are expected to determine who will be the next president. This is room full of people who say that they are undecided and persuadable in Pennsylvania and they are there waiting to be with the vice president at CNN's Town Hall. With me now is Pete Buttigieg, and I should note he is here in his personal capacity as a surrogate for the Harris campaign. And I appreciate your time, sir.

So, what do you make of the fact that Vice President Harris has the stage to herself tonight, right? We had hoped this would be a debate between her and former President Trump, and of course, then perhaps that there would be a Town Hall with President Trump after the vice president. But, she is the one who accepted the invitations to both, so she is there alone. What do you think the significance of that is for her?

PETE BUTTIGIEG, (D) UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION AND FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, the significance of it is that, clearly, he does not want to have to compete with her in a debate and he does not want to have to explain in a Town Hall environment his unpopular positions. Remember just about everything he's about, his proposal for tax cuts for the rich, his proposal for tariffs that would increase the prices that families pay, the fact that every woman in America had their national right to choose taken away by Donald Trump, any of the Project 2025 agenda, this is really unpopular stuff.

So I'm not completely surprised that he pulled out of what was supposed to be a debate tonight. I mean, look, he won't even go on CNBC, let alone "60 Minutes." She's of course doing the opposite, finding voters anywhere she can, talking to everybody from Fox News to 'Charlamagne tha God.' And I think she's going to have a great opportunity tonight as well to demonstrate that while you have one candidate who is focused on himself, you got another candidate in the Vice president who is focused on voters, on the American people, on our everyday lives. And this will be a great opportunity for her to demonstrate that focus.

BURNETT: So he is actually -- what he's doing instead is a Town Hall in Atlanta where he is speaking right now. Up to this moment, he actually has not mentioned General Kelly or Harris in the context of this reporting from Jeffrey Goldberg in "The Atlantic." But he did post earlier on his social media website about John Kelly, and here's what he said. He called him a total degenerate, who made up a story out of pure Trump derangement syndrome, hatred. The guy had two qualities which don't work well together. He was tough and dumb. The problem is his toughness morphed into weakness because he became jello with time. He continues to call John Kelly as a low life and a bad general, whose advice in the White House I no longer sought and told him to move on.

You know, you obviously, former military, what's your response to what Trump is saying to John Kelly tonight?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, of course it's an insult to the military. It's an insult to veterans. But he's also telling on himself, right? One of the most important things that a president does is choose key personnel. Donald Trump has often claimed that he's good at that, which he would need to be in order to be a good president. He chose John Kelly, and not for some random appointment to some obscure board. He chose him to be his number one advisor, his Chief of Staff, the most important official in the White House. By the way, he did that because John Kelly has a reputation as a great general and a great leader. Let's also remember that General Kelly, his son gave his life in the defense of this country.

[20:45:00]

There's no question in who is credible between the two of them. Donald Trump who has told more documented, provable lies than any modern American politician or General Kelly who is a person of integrity and who you can tell, didn't do this lightly. I cannot think of another time in American history, certainly in my lifetime, when a president or a candidate for president was denounced by his own Chief of Staff. Again, this isn't some random liberal group saying these things about Donald Trump.

BURNETT: No, it's not.

BUTTIGIEG: -- telling these stories, you know, we're talking about his own Chief of Staff and a whole bunch of other people from his Secretary of Defense to his own vice president who are not with him --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: All of that is true. Does it give you any pause though that General Kelly, of course, remained Chief of Staff even after this incident happened? It's not as if he resigned over it or walked away over it. I mean, we're only finding out about it now.

BUTTIGIEG: Well, I think, somebody in that role, I'm sure, was torn by the idea that on one hand there's this kind of adults in the room theory, right? That you can restrain his worst impulses, and on the other hand, the desire or duty to step away. But I think the most important thing to remember is that being with Donald Trump is generally a one-way trip. People either stay with him in order to preserve their own power or sooner or later, as a matter of conscience, they say that he has no business being in office.

And again, there has never been a case, at least that I can think of, of this many Republicans saying vote for the Democrat.

BURNETT: Right.

BUTTIGIEG: And there's definitely never been a case of a president's own top officials either staying quiet or directly saying watch out, this person is a danger.

BURNETT: You know, obviously, Trump made lock her up a crucial part, right, a central part of his 2016 campaign. And now, given what's going on with him legally, what may happen with the January 6th investigation, he could be going to prison if he loses this election. In that context, I want to play for you what President Biden said yesterday about Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: It sounds like if I said this five years ago, you'd lock me up. We got to lock him up.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Politically lock him up.

(APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: Lock him out. That's what we have to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: He caught himself. The addendum there is relevant, but he did say, we got to lock him up. Did -- does that make you feel uncomfortable?

BUTTIGIEG: Well, he was quick to clarify what he meant. He's also somebody who has taken care to stay out of the doings of the Justice Department because that's the right thing to do and to have no involvement in those kind of criminal justice processes. Obviously, this is a very different circumstance from that of Secretary Clinton because unlike Secretary Clinton, Donald Trump was accused and convicted of a crime. But that's a process that will continue to play out in the criminal justice system.

I think the bigger question here is, is this somebody who's fit to be president? And when you have everybody from Democrats to Republicans to some of his closest members of his inner circle saying, no, he's not, that's a pretty clear answer. But again, what I'm looking forward to tonight is that she'll have a chance not only to prosecute the political case against Donald Trump and why he shouldn't be returned to office, but to talk about what she's going to do to make people better off.

I think this is especially important in the attention environment that we're in right now, especially with all of the distraction that Donald Trump is showing out there, right? At the end of the day, this election is not about Arnold Palmer, it's not about McDonald's. It's not about Elon's tummy, this is about you, your job, the prices that you are paying and why they would go higher under a Trump plan, the housing that we need in this country, and how Kamala Harris going to build more housing, a woman's right to choose, and what Kamala Harris will do to bring back that right, and all of the other issues that are actually going to affect how our lives go.

BURNETT: OK. Pete Buttigieg, I appreciate your time and thank you very much for joining us ahead of, this consequential CNN Town Hall, which is just a few moments away. Tonight's event giving Harris really an eleventh hour chance. We are less than two weeks away from Election Day, people voted in early voting in record numbers, even just today. This Town Hall is important. It's coming up in a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:54:15]

BURNETT: And here we are, just moments away from that screen taking over. That is where Kamala Harris is going to take direct questions from a group of undecided and persuadable voters. That's what they all have said they are, at a CNN Town Hall. Part of Harris's final pitch today has been highlighting Trump's reported praise of Hitler, the danger a second Trump term could pose. She has been using that word 'dangerous', which has been a big emphasis for her over recent days.

Coming, as CNN has learned, Former President Obama shared a similar message at a fundraiser for Harris this week. He described Trump as "somebody who white nationalists explicitly rally around", quote from the former president there. And on that note panel back along with Jay Carney, Former White House Press Secretary under President Obama. So Jay, he's been out there now several times. And I actually have listened to a few of them.

[20:55:00]

So he's got a speech, he's got a message and then he adds to it. But he's got a message that he's putting out there. How effective do you think he is right now?

JAY CARNEY, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think President Obama is very effective in reaching voters and urging them to go to the polls. I think he's very motivating. I think he's more popular than he has ever been, and I think he's probably the most effective surrogate that Kamala Harris has. I think what's notable is the message that was reported out of a closed fundraiser is different from what he's saying publicly, because I don't think that the message here is winning. One is to talk about how Donald Trump is unfit for office.

He is, when you have two four-star generals, highly respected, who served under you say so, I think that's disqualifying. But the swing voters don't want it. They've decided on that issue already. If they're undecided about Donald Trump's fitness for office, they're not looking for more information about that question. They're looking for what President Obama talked about at the convention, which is he's whining about his problems, not thinking about yours. And then you go right to the economic message. You go right to the women's health message, and you just hammer it and hammer it. That's what's going to move voters

BURNETT: Van, is she -- is he turning voters out for her?

JONES: Yes, but I really agree with what was just said. The people who are movable now are looking at their pocketbook, and Kamala Harris has a great plan for them. Donald Trump's economic plans are horrible and hers are great. If we talk about that people, the people who are --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: They both have projected to add trillions of dollars to the Federal Act (ph).

JONES: Well, yes, the debt, but will I be able to get my mom help? Will I be able -- will I have to pay a lot more for stuff I want to buy because of these stupid tariffs? So I think at the end of the day, Kamala Harris needs to make, like, I want you guys to do well, I want you to be financially successful. I've got plans to do it. And use the contrast to talk about what she's going to do for you.

CARNEY: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: And her biggest obstacle she has to overcome is about 30 percent of voters who want to know more specifically about her policies, and there are specific questions. Would you extend our support extending Trump's tax cuts, or would you approach it differently? There are some things that I think she could get tonight that specifically hit people's pocket books that are going to resonate with independent voters. And she's gotten -- she has so far been able to articulate some forward-looking visions, and she has closed the margin on who would handle the economy better.

BURNETT: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: This recent AP data has voters supporting her just as much as Donald Trump on that. But she needs a more forward-looking agenda that separates her from Biden and distinguishes her from (inaudible).

AXELROD: I'd so agree with what Jay said, and I don't think -- I think you can fall into a trap if you're just listing proposals. You have to talk about the experience of people in this economy, and she needs to make that connection here and talk about how her policies will actually help. She's got practical policies on housing, on taking care of an elderly parent, on the kinds of things that people talk around -- talk about around their kitchen table. And there are a lot of families in this country who are talking about that, not democracy rather.

URBAN: Look, I'll just say this, with respect to both you guys. Barack Obama's a great surrogate, right? Kamala Harris has to actually -- she got to make this, she's got to close the deal here. On the way over here today, my Uber driver from Ghana, who's been here 10 years, doesn't know who I am. I'm asking him kind of, what are you paying attention to in the election? How are things going?

BURNETT: He going to vote? I mean -- (CROSSTALK)

URBAN: He can't vote. He's in a green card. He said, all my friends -- obviously, he's from Ghana, African-American guy. He said, all my friends -- I said, who are you voting for? I can't vote. All my friends are voting for Trump. I said, really? Why? He said immigration is terrible. He said it's killing us. I can't -- I'm working five jobs, I can't make it -- I can't make ends meet. And then he said the economy. He said it costs me so much to fill up the car, to put food on my table. He said these guys aren't doing enough to help us. That's my only (ph) anecdotal point.

BURNETT: So, Jen, what does she do tonight about that?

URBAN: She's got to address that point, right?

BURNETT: What does she do tonight about that? Beyond saying, I'm for you, right? I mean, that's part of -- that's not --

(CROSSTALK)

CARNEY: I think she has to -- here's a piece of documented evidence that she can point to, which is the economist who say, overwhelmingly, that Trump's economic proposals will drive inflation up and hers won't, certainly not to that degree. She can actually, in this case, take partial credit while distancing herself from the sitting president for the impact of the policies that have reduced inflation significantly in the last year and a half.

I think -- and then I think she has to talk about -- I think the affordable housing proposal she has is novel and meaningful to a lot of voters. The $25,000 injection to help --

AXELROD: Small business.

CARNEY: -- for small business, these things are meaningful to keep --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: But Jay's such a good press (ph).

JONES: You need.

(CROSSTALK)

CARNEY: You and I hope.

BURNETT: I'm going to say what's going on with the gold market, the treasury market, and everything out there's? It is pretty terrifying right now. I don't know what it means. I mean, it's not going to change the next few weeks here, but --

(CROSSTALK)

CARNEY: What I don't -- what I hope she doesn't do is spend a lot of time talking about the comments that Trump has made about admiring Hitler's generals or whether or not he's unfit for office. That's out there; it's getting plenty of attention. She needs to talk to voters.

AXELROD: The extent she's talking about his instability, it should be this is what I'm focused on and that's what he's focused on.

CARNEY: Right. Yeah.

AXELROD: I'm going to focus on you. He's going to focus on his vengeance thing of the day, and whose problems is that going to solve, or is that going to solve?

BURNETT: All right. Well, here we are. It's about to begin, and we're going to get to see exactly what case she makes because it is time now for the big event.