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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Harris, Obama, Springsteen, at Star-Studded Georgia Rally; Trump Campaigns in Nevada and Arizona; 12 Days Out: Harris, Obama, Springsteen At Star-Studded Georgia Rally, Trump Campaigns In Nevada And Arizona; Sen. John Fetterman (D-PA), Is Interviewed About Criss- Crossing Rural Pa Counties To Drum Up Votes For Harris; Residents In Western North Carolina Struggling To Recover From Hurricane Helene As Winter Approaches. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 24, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00]
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I will tell you as I travel our country, there is an overwhelming call for a fresh start. For a new generation of leadership that is optimistic and excited about what we can do together. There is a yearning for a president of the United States who will see you, who gets you and who will fight for you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
In my whole career, I have put the people before partisanship. I never once asked somebody, are you a Democrat or are you a Republican? Instead, I always ask, how can I help you. And that is a major difference between Donald Trump and me, and between the two very different, extremely different visions that he and I have for our nation.
One, he is focused on the past and himself, the other, ours, focused on the future and you. Together, we will build a future where we bring down the cost of living and that will be my focus every single day as president of the United States.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
Because look, while inflation is down and wages are up, prices are still too high. You know it and I know it. And unlike Donald Trump, who had $400 million served to him on a silver platter and still managed to file for bankruptcy six times, he talks about being a good businessman, come on.
Unlike him, I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood with a working mother who kept a strict budget and did everything she could to make sure my sister and I had all that we needed. I come from the middle- class and I will never forget where I come from, which is why my common sense plan will lower the prices you pay on everything from prescription drugs to groceries to housing.
On the other hand Donald Trump will raise costs on you and your families. In fact, independent economists have analyzed our plans and found that mine will cut your costs and strengthen our economy; his will increase inflation and lead to a recession by the middle of next year. These are independent economists. Nobel laureate, prize winning economists, who have reviewed our plans and are very clear.
And his agenda is all laid out in Project 2025, a detailed and dangerous blueprint for what he will do if he is elected president and look, Donald Trump intends to impose a 20 percent Trump national sales tax on every day basic necessities which will cost the average family nearly $4,000.00 a year.
On the other hand, I will take on price gouging corporate price gouging. I've done it before and I will do it again. Donald Trump will give massive tax cuts to billionaires and the biggest corporations exactly like he did the last time he was president. I will give middle-class tax cuts to 100 million Americans, including $6,000.00 during the first year of a child's life that will also lift Americas children out of poverty.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
Donald Trump will get rid of the $35.00 cap on insulin for seniors. He will cut Medicare and Social Security, in fact, economists have reported he will bankrupt Social Security in just six years. My plan is a plan to support our seniors so that they can grow older with dignity and their families, you are not overwhelmed by the cost of home health care.
And on top of that, my plan will bring down the cost of housing, cut taxes for small businesses, where are the small businesses in the house --
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
You are the backbone of America's economy, all of you. And we will lower health care costs because I believe healthcare should be a right and not just the privilege of those who can afford it.
[20:05:17]
Donald Trump on the other hand intends to end the Affordable Care Act or like we like to call it Obamacare and he wants to take us back to when insurance companies have the power to deny people with preexisting conditions. Well, we are not going back. We are not going back.
(PEOPLE CHANTING "WE ARE NOT GOING BACK")
We are not going back. No we are not because we will move forward and it is time to turn the page.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
Ours is a fight for the future and it is a fight for freedom, for freedom, like the fundamental freedom of a woman to make decisions about her own body and not have government tell her what to do. And we remember how we got here, Donald Trump hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe versus Wade, and they did as he intended and now, in America one in three women lives in a state with a Trump abortion ban.
I don't need to tell the folks here, except for Virginia in every state in the south including Georgia, there is a Trump abortion ban. Many would no exceptions even for rape and incest and let me tell you the idea that someone who survives a crime of a violation to their body would be told they don't have the authority to make a decision about what happens to their body next. That is immoral, it is immoral, it is immoral.
And everybody here knows, one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government should not be telling her what to do, not the government.
If she chooses, she will talk with her pastor, her priest, her rabbi, her Imam, but not the government, not some folks up in a State Capitol telling her what to do with her own body. And notice Donald Trump still refuses to even acknowledge the pain and the suffering he has caused. He insists that, "everybody wanted for Roe versus Wade to be overturned" which is just a further example of how out of touch the man is.
Everybody wanted this, women are being denied care during miscarriages. Some only being treated once they develop sepsis. They didn't want this. Couples just trying to grow their family have been cut off in the middle of IVF treatments. They don't want this. Women have died because of these bans, including a young mother of a six- year-old son right here in Georgia, her family is here with us tonight and we speak her name: Amber Nicole Thurman.
And you all have heard me say, look, I do believe Donald Trump to be an unserious man and the consequences of him ever being president again are brutally serious. These are just some of the consequences of the Trump abortion bans and what he does and what he's likely to do. And I pledge to you when Congress passes a bill to restore reproductive freedom nationwide as president of the United States, I will proudly sign it into law, proudly.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
[20:10:15]
And across our nation we are witnessing a full-on assault on other hard hard-won freedoms and rights, fundamental freedoms and rights. Like Georgia knows, attacks on the freedom to vote, attacks on the freedom to be safe from gun violence, the freedom to breathe clean air, and drink clean water, the freedom to love who you love openly and with pride.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
And as Atlanta knows well, generations of Americans before us led the fight for freedom. And now, the baton is in our hands. It is in our hands and so I'd like to speak in particular to all the young leaders that I see here this evening.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
I see you, I see you -- and to you I say, you all have grabbed the baton, I've seen what you do and I see how you are doing it because you are rightly impatient for change. You who have only known the climate crisis are leading the charge to protect our planet and our future.
You, young leaders who grew up with active shooter drills are fighting to keep our schools safe. You who know now fewer rights than your mothers and grandmothers are standing up for reproductive freedom and I know it is because for you I say to our young leaders, this is not theoretical, this is not political, this is your lived experience.
And what I love about you is you are not waiting for other people to figure this out. So I see you and I see your power and I know so many of you are voting for the first time and know that our future is so good with you all at the helm and I'm so proud of you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
Can we hear it for our young leaders and first-time voters?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
So listen, so much is on the line in this election and this is not 2016 or 2020. The stakes are even higher because over the last years and in particularly the last eight years, Donald Trump has become more confused, more unstable, and more angry. You see it every day.
He has become increasingly unhinged but last time, at least there were people around him who could control him. But do notice in this election they're not with him this time. In fact, just this week, America heard from John Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general who was Trump's White House chief-of-staff who said that as president, Trump praised Hitler.
Take a moment to think about what that means, that Trump said, "Hitler did some good things" and that Trump wished he had generals like Hitler's, who would be loyal to Trump and not to America's Constitution. This is not 2016 and it is not 2020, including because just a few months ago, the United States Supreme Court told the former president that he is effectively immune, no matter what he does in the White House.
Now, just imagine Donald Trump would no guardrails, he who will claim unchecked and extreme power if he is reelected. Who has vowed that he will be a dictator on day one. Who calls Americans who disagree with him. I'm going to quote "the enemy from within." You know what that harkens back to? He's calling Americans "the enemy within" who said that he would use the military to go after them and he who has called for "termination of the Constitution of the United States". Let us be very clear, someone who suggests we should terminate the constitution of the United States of America should never again stand behind the seal of the president of the United States of America. Never again. Never again.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
[20:15:59]
(PEOPLE CHANTING "WE'RE NOT GOING BACK")
So, America, there is a huge contrast in this election. Just imagine the Oval Office in three months picture it in your mind it is either -- so, but there's a choice that everybody has. So let's imagine if for a moment it's either Donald Trump in there stewing over his enemies list or me working for you checking off my to-do list. You have the power to make that decision. It is your power, it is your power.
(PEOPLE CHANTING "KAMALA.")
Well, 12 days, all right. So, okay, we've got work to do, we've got work to do, so Georgia, listen, it all comes down to this. We are here together because we know what is at stake. We are here together because we love our country, we love our country and I do believe it is one of the highest forms of patriotism to fight then for the ideals of our country and to fight to realize the promise of America. That's why we are here.
And as the great congressman, John Lewis reminded us democracy is not a state, it is an act. So, Georgia, now is our time to act and to together we will win. We will win. We will win.
(PEOPLE CHANTING "WE WILL WIN.")
So, election day, is in 12 days, okay, 12 days and early voting has already started. So Georgia, we need you to vote early, please vote early. Go to IWillVote.com and get all the information you might need because folks, the election is here. It is here, it is upon us and the choice is truly in your hands. Your vote is your voice, and your voice is your power.
So Georgia, I ask you are you ready to make your voices heard?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
Do we believe in freedom? Do we believe in opportunity? Do we believe in the promise of America? And are we ready to fight for it?
And when we fight, we win. God bless you and God bless the United States of America.
(CHEERING APPLAUSE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": You've just been watching a very energized Vice President Harris conclude what has been a star-studded rally in the suburbs of Atlanta, including foreign president Obama, along with Bruce Springsteen, also Spike Lee, Tyler Perry, and Samuel L. Jackson. The point of course, to get Harris voters excited and out to the polls.
Joining us now is Erin Perrine, former director of press communications for Trumps 2020 campaign; Jamal Simmons, former communications director of vice president Harris; "New York Times" senior correspondent Maggie Haberman, author of "Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and The Breaking America;" and journalist Gretchen Carlson.
Maggie, obviously, a lot of stars on stage with her, Bruce Springsteen, all the others. We have seen that obviously in campaigns before in the closing days. It didn't work for Hillary Clinton. Where do you see the race right now, 12 days?
[20:20:29]
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I have no idea. I mean, honestly, I think anybody who says that they actually know what is happening is not telling the truth. There are people who are extrapolate --
COOPER: It's so nice to hear somebody actually say that.
HABERMAN: I can sit here a whole hour and say it if you want over and over again.
COOPER: You'll be sitting here for 12 days, saying that, I can tell you.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Plus one --
HABERMAN: Look, there's a certain amount of early voting data right now. And you are hearing both parties weave into it and offer versions of what they think it is. The issue is and you can certainly look at Nevada and say the number of Democrats who are turning out or not what Democrats would like it to be so far.
We don't know what that means in terms of as we get closer to election day, whether there is going to be a rush of voters on election day. The same with Georgia, there is a lot -- there's more Republicans than Republicans usually have an early voting.
In 2020, Donald Trump told voters don't vote early, you should go on election day. So, I don't know if we are reverting to pre-COVID patterns or if every Democrat is voting Democratic and every Republican is -- I have no idea where this race is -- this was obviously a big night for Kamala Harris. I should note that I am an avowed Bruce Springsteen fan. I've been very public about that. So, take that what you will, but she is trying to energize voters to go out.
Barack Obama remains the most popular Democratic politician out there. So, I understand why she's doing this? Will it be enough? It may not be. It comes down to the candidates themselves. But this is where I see the race.
COOPER: Jamal, you worked with her. What do you see?
SIMMONS: Yes, nobody else can make the case for her -- what Maggie was just saying. Nobody else can make the case for a candidate except for that candidate.
Here's what we don't know about this election. There will be Democratic men who vote for Donald Trump. There will be Republican women who vote for a Kamala Harris. We don't know how many there would be of either. And the person I think who steals the most voters from the other is probably going to be the next president of the United States.
It's going to take us a while to get to that number to find out exactly how many there were.
COOPER: I want to play a clip from last night's debate. Gretchen -- townhall, excuse me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Do you think Donald Trump is a fascist?
HARRIS: Yes, I do, and I also believe that the people who know him best on this subject should be trusted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Gretchen, what was particularly interesting about that is the first time she has actually said that she has quoted Mark Milley on the campaign trail. She was talking about General Kelly earlier in the day. The White House said that President Biden thinks Donald Trump is a fascist. Why do you think she is now taking that extra step?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, CO-FOUNDER, LIFT OUR VOICES: Because I think that internal polling is showing that somehow this line of attack is working on the inside for her. I mean, as you noticed when she came out on the stage with you last night, she focused at least nine minutes talking about this and really attacking Trump.
Now you have to also take into consideration Trump was not there. And so, I think she was also trying to prop him up to be in place because he decided not to show up. And that's the way in which she attacked him. But Jamal would know more about the internal polling. It has to be happening. It's why she went and did the press its conference earlier in the day to comment on the Hitler comments that he had said.
And so, somebody must be saying that that's working and resonating with the voters.
COOPER: Do you think it's working?
SIMMONS: Yes, I'm hearing research that -- from research that they are believing this is actually working. The more this race is about Donald Trump, the better it is for Kamala Harris. People are in the mood for change. The question is, is a change from Joe Biden or the change from Donald Trump and the Kamala Harris team needed to be changed from Trump, that makes her the new way forward and a change candidate.
COOPER: I don't know -- I want to play something that former president Trump said at a rally today in Arizona criticizing undocumented workers crossing over.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're a dumping ground, we're like garbage can for the world that's what's happened. That's what's happened to us, we're like a garbage can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Obviously, it's not just rising in other races. Of course, that might be considered calling America a garbage can, a dumping ground, calling people crossing over garbage. Where do you think the race stands?
ERIN PERRINE, FORMER DIRECTOR OF PRESS COMMUNICATIONS, TRUMP 2020 CAMPAIGN: I think Maggie's is right. I think there's no way to know at this point who is going to win. To her point regarding the Nevada numbers, Republicans are outpacing at a two-to-one right, right now for multiple days in a row, again, early 12 days left, who knows what the final days look like.
But we're also seeing more broadly nationally where women are outpacing men at voting at this point the early vote. If that maintains that way on election day, Donald Trump's going to have to do a massive get out the vote effort to get men to the polls because it's very clear they've done a targeted effort to get young men to join the Trump team and these are lower propensity voters and we were talking about this.
It's very hard to know if the polling is going to be accurate because there is such a play for these low propensity the voters. So, while everything is very close right now, and we're not going to know, we probably won't know on election night either. I think this is going to be the hardest one to tell just because there's so many variables in this at this point.
[20:25:22]
COOPER: As who has studied Donald Trump or written about him in your book, how does he seem to you now compared to six months ago in this campaign?
HABERMAN: Well, six months ago was before the assassination attempt in Butler, and it was before President Biden dropped out of the race. And I think that those were two seminal moments for Donald Trump. He has you know, there's a lot of discussion, there's no question that he is more incoherent, more rambling and he's older and so, I do think that's a part of and the speech lengths are very, very long. They've been timed. I don't personally think that there is some market huge difference in
who he was eight years ago as a person as to who he is now. I think people actually had a pretty good sense of who he was and he said many of the same things then. The language is darker now. He seemed angrier and he seems a little more focused on talking openly about revenge than he was earlier this year, more than a little earlier this year. And that, I am struck by, especially as a closing message.
COOPER: Do you get the sense that people around him in the campaign are concerned about at all?
HABERMAN: There are people in the campaign who would likely have been trying for a while to get the rally speeches down to something closer of what it was in 2016 which was under an hour now, I think on average 82 minutes and sometimes much longer.
They're concerned about some of the rhetoric and whether it will turn people off. They have been this whole time. I mean, there are a lot of -- I shouldn't say a lot. There is a segment of voters who clearly have made up their minds about Donald Trump. And so, what the campaign needs is for them not to say, you know what, I have to go vote for Harris because I just can't sit on the sidelines. They need them to just not vote.
CARLSON: But he's been talking like that for eight years.
HABERMAN: That's my point.
CARLSON: The point is for an undecided voter, you're not really undecided because of his rhetoric has not turned you off up until this point after eight years of it, then you're really not undecided. You're still wavering between potentially Trump and Harris, but he has not offended you with his rhetoric.
HABERMAN: I don't completely agree on that. I think there are people I generally agree, but I do think there are people for whom I don't think we have long memories anymore. I do think a lot of people have some fondness for his presidency, which was the last time that pre- COVID, they felt great in their lives.
So, I don't actually know that people necessarily remember every single thing that's mattered.
COOPER: It's interesting to hear former President Obama reminding people, a million people died during COVID, that there's hundreds of thousands of people, there's tens of millions of people who had been affected by COVID through the death of somebody that they loved. We as a society have completely forgotten that. No one wants to her about COVID anymore.
If you see somebody in a mask and airport, everyone's like, who's that freak and yet it was just a few years ago. I thought it was interesting to hear Obama reminding people of it and the death rates in Canada versus what they were under Trump in the US.
SIMMONS: And that is the challenge, right? To keep people and to get refocused on it? You know, we elect presidents, not just to do tax policy and to make sure that health care works in the good times.
We elect presidents because something's going to happen, something is going to happen while they're in office that we can't predict. And we need somebody who's sitting in the chair, who can figure out what the right thing to do based on advice and to make a call. And I think that's what the campaign is trying to remind people that this guy doesn't really have the judgment.
And that's what makes the Hitler conversation from General Kelly so important. It makes the 'enemies from within' conversations so important because Donald Trump in his own words is telling you that he doesn't have the judgment that agrees with what most of us believe, because Hitler was kind of a bad guy, we don't want to we like him.
COOPER: By the way, I do occasionally wear a mask in the airport. I don't want everybody out there to think I was calling somebody like, that was actually me, I've got to say --
SIMMONS: Just because you're hiding, with the hair --
COOPER: Well, that's also --
SIMMONS: The hair will give you a way every time.
PERRINE: I think to Gretchen's point, when it comes to the closing message here, right? What Kamala is doing is using her closing message more as a base play because people will have heard Trump's rhetoric. They know what to expect from him. And if they haven't been turned off by it to this point, the likelihood that they are persuadable voter who would be turned off now seems very, very low.
So what she's doing with this January 6th democracy conversation is trying to gin-up the Democratic base because there are clearly issues. She's got problems in Michigan. They have Arab-American leaders calling around saying don't vote for Trump or for Harris right now in Michigan.
I mean, there is a lot going on and so she's trying to gin-up the base and then when she does these rallies and these bigger events, she's trying to get those more persuadable votes.
COOPER: Erin, thanks very much. Everybody thank you.
Just a reminder, Hillary Clinton joins Kaitlan Collins tonight on "The Source," that's at nine o'clock with insights as the first woman to be nominated for president by a major US party have to share with the second that's coming up.
Still ahead this hour, what former President Obama said tonight about racism in America in the Georgia rally as the Harris ticket reaches out to Black voters. I'm talking with author and radio host, Charlamagne tha God, and podcast host Angelo Ryan, also Senator Fetterman joins me ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: -- former President Obama said tonight about racism in America at the Georgia rally. As the Harris ticket reaches out to black voters. I'll talk with author and radio host Charlamagne tha God and podcast host Angela Rye and also Senator Fetterman joins me ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Again, Vice President Harris, former President Obama sharing the stage earlier tonight in Georgia, their first campaign event together with 12 days until Election Day. And at one point, the former president shared this message with the crowd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, politics, it's not going to solve all your problems. No president is going to eliminate poverty in one term or eliminate racism because those problems are hard. It -- it takes steps, a little bit at a time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:35:13]
COOPER: Joining us now, radio host, Charlamagne tha God. His latest book is "Get Honest or Die Lying." He's also founder of the Black Effect Podcast Network. Also with us, Angela Rye, co-host of the podcast Native Land Pod.
Charlamagne, I saw -- I mean, you did a great interview with Secretary -- with Vice President Harris last -- last week.
CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, AUTHOR, "GET HONEST OR DIE LYING": Thank you. You did a great one last night.
COOPER: Last -- in that, you talked about former President Obama, and it was one of the first kind of, it was the first day he was kind of out. And you said he was out there last week waving his finger at black men. I'm wondering, in the comments, it seemed like he did not do that in the comments. Now, he doesn't seem to have done that again. Do you think he went too far with that? Because you were asking Harris about it as if maybe there was something not great about that.
THA GOD: Yes. I -- I didn't like it simply because, you know, black men were always the second largest voting bloc, you know, behind black women when it comes to Democrats. And, you know, when you look at 2016 and 2020, you know, 52 percent of white women, you know, voted for Donald Trump in 2016, 55 percent of white women voted for Donald Trump in 2020. So I feel like, you know, to Liz Cheneys and Hillary Clintons, they need to be out there waving their finger at white women and telling them, hey, don't vote against your interest again in 2024. So that's -- that's why I didn't necessarily care --
COOPER: And nobody criticizes them for not wagging their finger. THA GOD: Yes. And -- and not -- not only does nobody criticize them for not wagging their finger, nobody ever says, hey, black men, thank you for always showing up for us, you know? So it's like, I don't understand why they're trying to make black men the scapegoat in 2024.
COOPER: What did you think after interviewing Harris and what do you think she needs to do in the next 12 days?
THA GOD: I think she needs to continue, you know, saying that message that President Obama was saying just now, like, you know, I think that you don't have to -- you don't have to promise the world to people. People just want to know that they have individuals who are in office who actually care about them, who actually have empathy for them and who are trying to make their lives, you know, just a little -- a little bit better at a time.
Because like President Obama said, they're not going to eliminate poverty. You know, they're not going to, you know, destroy systemic racism within a presidential term. I think if she just continues to go out there and just be honest with the American people, I think it'll resonate.
COOPER: Angela Rye, what -- what do you think has to be done in the next 12 days?
ANGELA RYE, CO-HOST, "NATIVE LAND POD" PODCAST: I think that honesty is imperative right now. I think there was a remarkable moment that you actually just showed from last night's town hall with you, Anderson, where you asked Kamala Harris if Donald Trump was a fascist. And she said, yes, yes, I do.
There has been more heat from the media on her answer and less attention pay -- paid to what his former White House chief of staff said, John Kelly, that he is in fact a fascist. When you look at one party rule, religious nationalism, ethnic nationalism, that is what Donald Trump is striving for. And if we're honest, that is what the Republican Party writ large has been building toward for a long time.
Donald Trump, as Harry Reid once said, is merely the Republican Party's Frankenstein. I remember being on this network, Anderson. I'm sure you don't -- you do quite a few interviews, but I was on with you when Donald Trump --
COOPER: I remember -- I remember my interviews with you. You were great.
RYE: No, no, no. I'm just going to reference one specific.
COOPER: For a while.
RYE: It has been a while, but in 2016, I remember being on air with you and saying that Donald Trump was racist and there was immediate blowback. How could you say he's racist? What facts do you have? There is a laundry list of facts to support the fact that this man traffics in racism and he is a fascist. And I think the most important thing that we all can do as American citizens, that the media can do, is ensure that we are calling a thing a thing.
We know what it is. We see what it is. It is not just the responsibility of the candidates in the race to tell the truth. God forbid one of them ever even touches the truth. But it -- it's really respond -- it's important that we lean into that responsibility right now.
COOPER: You know, Angela raises a good point, Charlamagne, and I'm going to flip it a little bit. I think that her saying that she thinks Donald Trump -- that she believes Donald Trump is a fascist got a lot of headlines because it was the first time she said it. She's been going along for days saying Mark Milley said he's a fascist. This person said this.
You raised the question of authenticity in your interview with her. And that was an authentic moment where she says, yes, I do think he's a fascist. And I think that's why it -- it had a -- a reaction. You know, Donald Trump, he, you know, for any -- for whatever you think about him, if you like him, if you hate him, he is certainly who he is. He's shown us who he is every single day.
THA GOD: Yes, which is a fascist and it's crazy because you still don't have news networks having that conversation.
RYE: Yes.
THA GOD: Like when somebody says -- when somebody questions Kamala Harris' blackness, or is he a DEI hire, you all will have roundtable discussions about that, asking that question. How come you're not having roundtable discussions asking, is Donald Trump a fascist? Actually, not even asking it, stating it.
I mean, when you look at the things that he's talking about doing, jailing journalists -- journalists, jailing his political opponents, turning the military on American citizens. The guy said he wanted to terminate the constitution to overthrow the results of an election. How come that is not the topic of discussion on networks like CNN every day?
[20:40:00]
COOPER: But do you think that, I mean, you were raising this with Kamala Harris about her own authenticity, about her own willingness to -- to just, you know, say things that aren't, you know, crafted. Do you think she needs to do more of that? You know, Trump is going to go --
THA GOD: Do I think she needs to keep calling Trump a fascist?
COOPER: Apparently --
THA GOD: Yes.
COOPER: -- apparently Trump's going on, is going to tape a thing with -- with Joe Rogan. Do you think she should -- should do that? THA GOD: I think that she should keep calling Donald Trump a fascist. And I think that Americans need to keep looking at the rhetoric of Donald Trump, because I don't know why we're even thinking about electing somebody who's talking about putting people in camps. I don't know why we're talking -- why we want to elect somebody who's talking about mass deportation.
I don't know why we're having this conversation about somebody who wants to terminate the constitution to overthrow the results of an election. Aren't we supposed to be a patriotic country? Whenever somebody like Colin Kaepernick takes a knee in this country, everybody talks about, oh, that's so unpatriotic. But a guy can say he wants to terminate the constitution to overthrow the results of an election and nobody cares.
Like even -- even -- even me bringing it up now, you -- you brought it back to Kamala and Joe Rogan, Anderson, who gives a damn?
COOPER: Well, I mean, I think you give damn who's elected president. And --
THA GOD: Yes, especially if that president is a fascist that's talking about putting people in camps. That's talking about, once again, terminating the constitution to overthrow the results of an election. That's talking about, you know, jailing his political opponents. Like that rhetoric doesn't scare people?
COOPER: We -- we talk about this every single, this is what, I -- I've been talking about this every -- every night.
THA GOD: I don't think y'all have enough conversations about it. I feel like I heard more on this network about, is Kamala Harris black than I do about, you know, Donald Trump being a fascist. Am I -- Am I wrong, Angela?
COOPER: Honestly, that's bullshit. I'm sorry.
THA GOD: Oh, I like that.
RYE: Go ahead, Anderson.
COOPER: No, no, I'm not -- I'm not, look, I'm a huge fan of yours.
THA GOD: OK.
COOPER: But to say that we're sitting around talk -- discussing, is Kamala Harris black, like, I -- I mean, that's --
THA GOD: Oh, I've seen that. I've seen folks around table discussions a lot. Now, that's bullshit, Anderson, for you to say that you all don't have those conversations.
COOPER: I -- I've never asked somebody, is Kamala Harris is black?
THA GOD: Oh, I'm not saying you. I said the network.
RYE: Not you. He said the network. He did say the network.
COOPER: I don't think anyone -- I don't -- I don't think any anchor on this network has been going around saying, is -- is she black?
THA GOD: You all never have never had a --
RYE: It's definitely -- it's definitely been --
COOPER: We -- we have been -- look, I'm sure we have had, you know, nutty people or -- or people who have strongly held beliefs who I may disagree with, who somewhere on some panel have said something.
RYE: Yes.
COOPER: But I, you know, I will just speak up for -- for what I do on the show. I do believe it's important to get people different viewpoints, as long as they're willing to have a legitimate conversation. And so -- so what I don't like are surrogates who come out and spout talking points that they don't even believe, and those are people I try to eliminate from having ever on the air again.
THA GOD: I think no network has honest conversations about Donald Trump. You haven't had -- nobody's had honest conversations about Donald Trump since 2016. I saw last night, they were talking about, you know, the double standard that exists between Donald Trump and the vice president.
But it's always a double standard with Trump, whether it's with Hillary, whether it's, you know, against Biden, now with -- with Kamala. We talk about him being a threat to democracy, but we don't treat him like one.
COOPER: I mean I don't know what you've been watching, but like I don't know of any Trump supporters out there or people like him who are tuning in to me every night to try to get, you know, to -- to be validated in their opinions. Like I -- I don't know I -- I -- I don't know. I disagree with --
THA GOD: I don't think -- I don't think it's about validating. What do you mean, validating the Trump?
COOPER: Well, you're saying like that we're not, that -- that I guess you're saying I'm not discussing all the things he is saying and doing and pointing it out and talking to, you know, what John Kelly. I mean, this is what -- this has been discussed. There's nobody --
RYE: Anderson --
COOPER: Let me just say, there is nobody on the planet who does not -- has not heard and seen pretty much everything Donald Trump has said and knows --
THA GOD: I don't believe that. I don't believe that.
COOPER: -- knows who he is, whether they believe it or not, whether they care of it. THA GOD: When the Vice President said that to you last night, she said, I don't think enough people know. I -- I 100 percent believe enough people have not heard his rhetoric. What do you think, Angela?
RYE: I was just about to say, can you all tag me in? I'm never doing this --
COOPER: So I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
RYE: -- ever again.
COOPER: Angela, yes. It's -- it's the problem of being on satellite. Yes. Talk, please.
RYE: I know. It's the problem. No, I was just going to say, you know, I think what you're saying is fair that there have been round table discussions where you all raise this. I think the problem is it would be nice for, you know, you to cut the camera and say, I'm looking right here right now. You all Kamala Harris is a black woman. Let's move right along.
COOPER: Yes, yes.
RYE: But -- but -- but I was going to say to your -- your colleague's credit, Jake, right after the town hall yesterday, he said that you all had the opportunity to critique what Kamala Harris policy proposals were, what her positions were, what her recommendations were, whether or not she answered her question fair enough, because ta-da, she's the only one that showed up for the town hall. It was supposed to be a debate. He said that.
I think that the point is we don't hear those things enough. And it has been a threat. We cannot say, oh, you know, Kamala is going on with Joe Rogan or no, I'm sorry. Donald Trump is going on with Joe Rogan, but Kamala's choosing Club Shay Shay debated. Like it -- it's like, what is he going to say when he goes on?
COOPER: I know. Here -- here's but -- here's -- here's what -- here's what I've been saying --
RYE: Yes, yes.
COOPER: -- which is it is a double standard because Kamala Harris has policies and she talks about her policies. And you may think she doesn't talk in detail enough about her policies and plenty do. And I -- I pushed her on that last night. I quiz. I try to look at the policies from different, but she's got stated policies and you can look them up. Donald Trump does not have policies.
[20:45:14]
THA GOD: There you go. That's what I'm talking about.
COOPER: Yes. And we say, I mean, this is nothing new. We talk about this all the time. He doesn't have --
THA GOD: I agree with you.
COOPER: -- he does not have his policy -- in the 2016, his policy for Iraq was taking Iraq's oil by using U.S. soldiers to surround the oil fields --
RYE: That's right.
COOPER: -- and extract the oil somehow and bring it to America. I mean, literally. And I was like, that's not a thing. So that's been going on now. That's what --
THA GOD: What you just did -- what you just did what I would like to hear more pundits do, because a lot of times we ask --
COOPER: But -- but --
THA GOD: -- we ask answers.
RYE: He is the host.
COOPER: All right. But -- but let me -- right.
THA GOD: We say things -- we say things like --
COOPER: But -- but let me tell you.
THA GOD: Do you think Donald Trump is a fascist like, we -- I think we kind of --
COOPER: But -- but, you know what, I don't -- I'm not a pundit.
THA GOD: OK.
COOPER: I -- I'm not interested.
RYE: He's the host.
COOPER: I don't think my opinion is particularly interesting -- interesting for viewers out there. I'm interested in --
THA GOD: I disagree.
COOPER: OK. I quiver with it.
RYE: I disagree with that too, Anderson.
COOPER: You can quiver with it. But I believe in asking questions and probing people's arguments and trying to reveal people's arguments, what's true and what's not. And I like -- I'm not on MSNBC for a reason. I'm not on some other network for a reason, on CNN, because I want to talk to Republicans. I want to talk to Democrats. And I want to learn from them. I don't think I have the answers. I'm willing to change my mind. People can convince me of stuff all the time. I -- I -- like, I'm not a -- I don't even know why I'm talking about myself. I don't know why I'm talking about myself.
RYE: No. But -- but Anderson I want to -- I want to tell you this --
COOPER: But -- but my point is, I think what we're doing here is important because I do think in this country where, you know what, I got so many, I don't look at comments about myself, but I -- I was looking up some co -- comments about my grief podcast and I came across this whole inundation from people who are Harris supporters saying to me online today, like, how dare you? What a betrayal that you would ask her these questions. And I'm like --
THA GOD: No. You did your job.
COOPER: -- you misunderstand what my job is. I'm not on MSNBC or I'm no disrespect. They -- what they do is they're very talented, but it's -- I don't watch it. I'm not interested in watching what these overpaid blow dried anchors think. And I include myself in that overpaid blow dried, although I don't blow dry. I am overpaid. But I don't want the -- I'm not interested in the anchors opinion. I'm interested in facts and letting the viewers' make up their own mind. So anyway, I'm sorry this devolved. It's something that's been successful.
RYE: I -- I like that you said that, but I will just say in this moment, some of what we're talking about tonight, Anderson, is not actually an opinion at all. It is just the facts. And you are one of the most trusted voices on television. And it is important in those moments where, you know, those conversations devolve into nonsense, particularly on the other side of the aisle, their conspiracy theory, they won't even say her name right.
That has to be checked in the moment because that is what fascism looks like. That is how we start sliding down a very slippery slope. And we cannot afford to be here. The election is 12 days away and this should not be even what is on the ballot, but democracies on the line. That is not a partisan issue. It is the truth. And I think that's, what's important for cable news networks in particular to be saying, whether you're on "Fox," you're on CNN or you're "MSNBC." For all of us, that is our responsibility and our patriotic duty.
THA GOD: And now that I know you can literally call bullshit, I want to hear it --
RYE: Literally.
THA GOD: -- I want to hear it more.
COOPER: Charlamagne tha God, thank you. Angela Rye, thank you so much.
RYE: Thank you Anderson.
COOPER: I appreciate it. All right. I'll speak to Senator -- Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman, who's been very polite to wait. His new polling signals just how tight the race is. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:52:51]
COOPER: A new Pennsylvania poll from Franklin and Marshall College shows Trump at 50 percent and Harris at 49, which falls within the poll's margin of error, indicating there's no clear leader. Joining me now, Democratic Senator from Pennsylvania, John Fetterman -- John -- Senator Fetterman, I appreciate your time. Where does the race stand in Pennsylvania tonight from your view?
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): I mean, I'm not surprised by that poll. I wouldn't be surprised if the poll had Harris up two or Trump down or vice versa. You know, it's really going to be a coin toss.
And I've been saying that same thing, even if we go back to 2016, when Trump is going to be on the ballot, you know, especially in Pennsylvania, it's going to be a really, really close race. And that's where we are right now. So I wish I had something more, you know, more provocative. But it -- in a sense, you know, there are people, you know, of all these hot takes here or there. But at the end of the day, we're kind of arguing about a coin toss.
COOPER: Do you -- what -- in terms of obviously then the critical factor is getting voters out, do you have a sense of what the ground operation for Democrats is like in your state?
FETTERMAN: No. I -- I -- abs -- absolutely. It's, you know, the -- the Democrats have an amazing game ground right now. And there's a lot of -- a lot of real, real energy on the ground.
But what's also true is that the -- the Trump side has the same things as well. And -- and Trump has done some events that have really penetrated, you know, like the McDonald's thing and -- and going to like the Steelers games and those kinds of things. So, I mean, that's why it's -- it's just, you know, we're -- we're locked up.
But -- but I really would like to remind anybody, you know, anyone, any of the reachables, you know, like if -- if anyone is considering voting for Trump, and here is what the risk right now. And that is, and I use the metaphor of a slot machine. And if, you know, hey, you know, we -- we pull -- we pull the arm on November 5th, and you get a 777, you know, and then there's the jackpot.
And then that is if -- if he wins, and then the House follows that. And he -- yes -- we -- they carry the House. And then the Senate majority goes to the Republicans. And now imagine that the -- the ja -- the jackpot is that the Supreme Court that's at a six to three, a six to three. And I think one of the first things that would happen if that happens, then the filibuster is going to go.
[20:55:15]
And I really, you know, I do think that Trump would drop it. And then all of the kinds of laws, whether it's about, you know, payback or whatever you want to remake American society, you know, they would be able to pass a lot of these laws. And if they all end up in at the Supreme Court, the -- the Supreme Court has demonstrated that they are going to, you know, follow his agenda. And his -- they're going to -- they're going to rule on his side and a lot of these issues.
So if -- if anyone is not alarmed by that, there's really not much else I think that could happen. You know, we're living in a perpetual kinds of October surprise. And that's why it's going to come down to a gut check. It's a gut check for -- for some people that haven't really finally decided at that. It's like, you know, what do I want? Do I want that kind of a risk? Or do we want, you know, like kind of a -- like a president and a new way forward for like Kamala Harris? Or do you want that -- that kind of a risk on that?
And -- and again, I'm not going to criticize people that vote for the other side. I don't understand that. But it -- it doesn't matter at this point, it's going to happen. And it is going to be incredibly close. And it's -- I know it can't -- I wish I could be more comforting or whatever. But I -- I -- I just think that's -- I have to play it straight.
COOPER: Yes. Well, we appreciate that. Senator Fetterman, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Twelve days to go.
Now an update on the recovery efforts in North Carolina from Hurricane Helene. Here's CNN's Meena Duerson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, like I said, they actually got flooded out the Wednesday.
MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been a month since Hurricane Helene hit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it's dry and it's warm, he's probably got no choice but to stay there right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There we go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
DUERSON (voice-over): And here in the mountains of western North Carolina, volunteers are still working to help their neighbors recover.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last few nights have been below freezing. They got hit pretty hard.
DUERSON (voice-over): John Council (ph) has been organizing relief and making home visits since the storm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It takes a certain type of person to carve out an existence here.
DUERSON (voice-over): Council is checking on people like Ruthie Baker, whose mobile home was parked by the riverbank the night of the floods. RUTHIE BAKER, NORTH CAROLINA STORM VICTIM: We moved when we saw campers, tiny homes and cars floating away. It did tear up the bottom of the camper. So right now it's largely fix the insulation in the bottom so that we can try to stay warm.
I'm really worried about winter. Everybody's kind of on the same lane of we don't know what's going to happen, but we're scared.
DUERSON (voice-over): Staying warm is the challenge on everyone's minds. Immediate recovery efforts were focused on getting power and water back and clearing the roads.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you find everything else you need? But last week, the area got its first snow and temperatures below freezing.
ASHLEY GALLEHER, OWNER, ZIONVILLE RAMP COMPANY: These are incredible right now.
DUERSON (voice-over): What are you hearing from people at the resource desk when they come in?
GALLEHER: Heat is a big one because it got cold really early this year.
DUERSON (voice-over): Ashley Galleher turned her skate shop into this massive relief operation.
DUERSON: We heard just while we were there, two people come in looking for heaters.
GALLEHER: Yes, it gets really cold. We've had frost the last couple of mornings.
DUERSON: How are you seeing this fit together with like federal relief efforts?
GALLEHER: That's been a challenge. I'll say social media, misinformation, lack of trust.
DUERSON (voice-over): That lack of trust has led some of the neediest to lean on local efforts, while deeply skeptical of FEMA.
GALLEHER: We had over 300 people visit our site and they had nine people visit their site.
DUERSON: Nine?
GALLEHER: Yes.
DUERSON: And you built this barn?
RONALD WISE: I built this barn.
DUERSON (voice-over): Ronald Wise is 96 years old.
DUERSON: And I'm guessing it didn't always look like this. WISE: No, it never did look like that.
DUERSON (voice-over): And has lived here for almost 80 years in a house heated by a wood stove.
The storm unleashed mudslides that destroyed his barn, wood splitter, and firewood he's been stockpiling for the last decade.
DUERSON: You had enough wood to last you till you're over 100?
WISE: Yes.
DUERSON: And now what do you have?
WISE: I have one winter, maybe.
DUERSON (voice-over): This area was already squeezed by a housing crisis. Many who were flooded can't find or afford other options and are living with mold or sleeping in tents.
DUERSON: What are you most concerned about?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have people in unlivable homes. The biggest needs this winter are honestly going to be surviving it.
DUERSON (voice-over): For volunteers like Sherry Trice, the first frost of the year was a warning sign of the danger to her community as the storm slips out of the headlines.
SHERRY TRICE, VOLUNTEER: People need heat. People need money. And people need our nation to pay attention and not forget about Appalachia.
Meena Duerson, CNN, Boone, North Carolina.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Yes. So much lays ahead with winter coming. Just a reminder, Hillary Clinton joins Kaitlan Collins tonight for The Source. What insights is the first woman to be nominated for president by a major U.S. party have to share with the second, that is coming up at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
And also a new episode of my podcast, "All There Is," which is about grief and loss, came out on -- on Wednesday. You can find it online right now at cnn.com/allthereisonline or point your phone right now at the QR code. There's also a grief community group there. You can chat with others, help you feel less alone in your grief. I hope it helps.
The news continues, The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts right now.
