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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Four Days Out: Harris, Trump Both Hold Rallies In Battleground Wisconsin, Trump Defends Cheney Remarks, Calls Her a "Disaster"; Supreme Court Rules Pennsylvania May Count Back-Up Votes When Mail Ballots Are Rejected; How Philly's Suburbs Settle Close Races In Pennsylvania; Trump Hints At Big Healthcare Role For RFK Jr. If He Wins; Florida Accused Of Overreach As It Uses Taxpayer Cash To Fight Abortion Issue. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired November 01, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM BIANCO, ECONOMIC ANALYST, BIANCO RESEARCH PRESIDENT: You notice that and it is either going to dissuade them from voting because of the press or energize them to vote because they think their candidate is going to win. I don't think that these betting markets are going to change anybody's opinion. Such a waste of time to manipulate these markets which is why I push back on that argument.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, well, Jim, thank you very much, I'm glad to see you. We'll see what happens over these next few days. Have a good weekend and all of you, I hope you have a great weekend, thanks for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:31]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, new polling and the last before the election on where the race stands and how it might change over the next four days.
Also, Liz Cheney and Vice President Harris respond to what the former president about Cheney last night and the former president's follow up to CNN's question about it today.
Plus, Trump says vaccine falsehood promoter Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. would have a "big role" in health care if he's elected. What role would that be and apparently it may include vaccines.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
With just four days to go, the two candidates are both in Wisconsin tonight. Vice President Harris just wrapped up her second of three events in the state today in the town of Little Chute just outside in Appleton. She is heading to a Milwaukee suburb shortly.
The former president due in Milwaukee at the top of the next hour at the same venue where he accepted the Republican nomination this summer. Wisconsin and the other so-called blue wall states critical for both campaigns which is why we are starting out with new polling from Marist and CNN's John King to walk us through it. So, John, what is the new polling from the blue wall states show? JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, remember those blue wall states Trump won them in 2016, he was president. Joe Biden flipped them back in 2020, he's president. So, let's look at the new polling. And I'm going to do it in the context of our map that shows the path to 270 electoral votes.
Let's look first at the new Marist poll that you just mentioned. And if you're a Democrat, tonight, you're looking at this and you're happy. I'll add the caveat. It's just one poll, so be careful. But look at this in the end, Harris at 50 to 48 in Pennsylvania, 51 to 48 in Michigan, 50 to 48 in Wisconsin. No clear leader within the margin of error. But significantly, Harris at 50 percent or more in all of those polls.
Donald Trump about where he was in 2016 and 2020. He is consistent across these states and over the campaign. So just one poll. But if you're a Democrat, you think maybe were closing strong. So, let's average them out. Let's be safe. That's the best way to do it, is you take -- as we do in our CNN Poll of Polls, the last five reputable polls in each of these states. And you have no clear leader, a dead heat in Pennsylvania, maybe a slight Harris edge, but again, 49 to 46 and then 49 to 46 in Wisconsin. So, if you're Kamala Harris, nothing is easy, Anderson.
But you're seeing these polls, our CNN polls this week had her ahead with Pennsylvania tie ahead and the other two. Marist has her ahead in those other two Wisconsin, Michigan and a tie here.
If you're the vice president and you hold that lead you've had in Wisconsin for some time, even though its narrow, you hold that lead you've had Michigan for some time, even though its narrow and you can somehow win here where I am, which is very close to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, those three states alone, with all the other likely and solid Democratic states, would get the vice president of the United States to 270 and she would be the next president.
Not easy. Not done. But that is her easiest path and this recent polling does show its more than a viable possibility.
COOPER: And if the blue-wall states go to Trump?
KING: Well, let's flip them, right. If you imagine 2016 again, they're that close. They are that close. The Democrats are happy in the end. But it is just as conceivable looking at those numbers that Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania go back to Donald Trump.
Now, in our current map, that would only get him to 263. It wouldn't get them all the way to 270. But let's be real about this and realistic about this. If Donald Trump is winning all three of those, it is a very safe bet, that he's winning at least one, if not two or more of the remaining states.
Now, Nevada would not be enough electoral votes to get Trump over the top. You see, would just get him to 269. But again, if he's winning, the blue wall states again like he did in 2016, he's going to be the president, without a doubt. COOPER: As we mentioned, you've been in five swing states in five days. Have voters said anything that surprised you because you've been following up with a lot of these same people over the year.
KING: There's one common theme that comes up with Democrats and Republicans. Both think there's a secret vote out there. Republicans tell you that there are people who voted for Biden, who voted Democratic. They're mad about inflation. They don't think Harris is ready to be president. And they're not telling anybody, but they're going to vote Trump.
And then you meet other people and some have walked up to me and even said, this is happening in their own family, where they're in Republican families but the woman, the partner is going to at least the woman is going to vote for Kamala Harris because of the Dobbs decision, because of reproductive rights, because of Donald Trump's toxic character sometimes.
So both sides think there's a secret vote out here. I'll tell you here in Swarthmore, this is a very liberal community. This is one of the suburbs where the vice president has to run it up. One thing you do find here, and you find this among a lot of Democrats, is a little bit of anxiety. It is this 2020 where you run it up in the suburbs and you win the close races, or is it 2016, a lot of people have raised this question, where a little bit of sexism and maybe a little bit of racism now in Harris' case, kicks in and cost her just a little bit of the vote. So Democrats are both more optimistic and more anxious all at the same time.
COOPER: All right, John King, we'll see you a little bit later talking to Pennsylvania voters in your "All Over The Map" series. Right now, though the back and forth over what the former president said last night to Tucker Carlson about former Republican Congresswoman current Harris supporter, Liz Cheney.
[20:05:07]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She's a radical war hawk. Let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her okay. Let's see how she feels about it. You know, when the guns are drained on her face.
You know they're all war hawks when they're sitting in Washington in a nice building saying, oh gee will, let's sent 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Cheney posted her reaction on social media quoting her, now, "This is how dictators destroy free nations. They threaten those who speak against them with death."
Vice President Harris also weighed in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Anyone who wants to be president of the United States who uses that kind of violent rhetoric is clearly disqualified and unqualified to be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, later today, when asked by CNN's Kate Sullivan about Cheney interpreting his remarks as a threat in her life, the former president said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think that Liz Cheney is a disaster. All she wants to do is blow people up. She's a war hawk and a dumb one at that. And if you ever put her into the field of battle, she'd be the first one to chicken out. She wouldn't fight. She'd chicken out so fast. And that's all I'm saying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, joining us now CNN political analyst, "New York Times", senior political correspondent Maggie Haberman, also CNN political commentators Adam Kinzinger and David Urban and Ashley Etienne, former communications director for Vice President Harris.
Maggie, earlier today, the former president said more about Cheney on Truth Social, saying in part she wouldn't have the guts to fight herself. "It's easier for her to talk sitting far from where the death scenes take place, but put a gun in her hand and let her go fight and she'll say no thanks."
Obviously, coming from a guy who avoided the draft in Vietnam, alleging bone spurs, that's one data point in all of this. How do you see this back and forth today?
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think it's helpful to the Trump campaign. I mean, they're spending the entire day talking about this. He's had to clean it up. His aides have been talking to reporters about it, at least one of his stops in Michigan, he posted on Truth Social. The clip is playing over and over again.
You know, he appeared to be talking about the long-standing criticism of people who send others into war that they wouldn't go themselves. And, Liz Cheney has been called a hawk before but he did it in a particularly violent way. And so, of course, this is going to get attention in the final days and it shouldn't really be a surprise.
I will say, Anderson, he has also reposted or re-truthed or whatever you call it on his website another user -- saying that she was guilty of treason and calling for a military tribunal. So, this is, you know, in keeping with the kind of rhetoric he's been using for a while.
COOPER: I mean, he's also talked about, you know, Mark Milley and what would happen in past days about the death penalty for treason. Congressman, you're a veteran of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Conservative former House Republican like Liz Cheney, who endorsed Kamala Harris. What's your reaction?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, Anderson, I've also lived threats like this, maybe not directly from him but I get them every day. This isn't a joke. This isn't something that we can, you know, sit around and somebody try to excuse as he really meant she'd die on the battlefield.
A couple of big points here. First off, we get told we can't call Trump a fascist. And we can't say he's a threat to democracy because, oh, my God, that's going to create violence. But he can say Liz Cheney on a battlefield or he didn't say battlefield with nine guns pointed at her face, an oddly specific number by the way, and you can tell in his mind he may have been thinking about battle, but then he's visualizing nine guns pointing at Liz Cheney's face.
So look, I've lived this stuff. We're talking about people's lives here. Why we can't just have a grown up for once doesn't have to go that route. And lastly, let me say this, if Donald Trump is saying that anybody who is scared of battle somehow can't have an opinion or can't do anything regarding national defense then what the hell is he doing running for president?
Because there is nobody watching this show right now that believes that Donald Trump wouldn't be scared to death if he was on the field of battle. So, now he's saying since he would be scared to death, he can't send people into war. He is not qualified to be president for any number of reasons. But just add this to the list now, too.
COOPER: David, you're a graduate of West Point, I should point out, awarded the Bronze Star for your service during Desert Storm. What do you make of the Congressman's perspective?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So which Congressman, so listen, Anderson, I am glad that you played the entire clip, right? A lot of people weren't playing the clip and I think that's how this got spun up.
The Congressman knows, he's a veteran, he knows and he knows this well, the biggest responsibility you have as a member of Congress or in the government are the young men and women in our Armed Forces, right, putting those people in harm's way.
And that's what the president is talking about. Whether or not we should put young men and women in harm's way and it's easy. Liz Cheney's father who by all accounts lied to the American public, lied to the world about the first, about the first AUMF that was enacted in 2002 and which stood in place until just a few years ago, which was used over and over and over again.
[20:10:31]
COOPER: Authorized Use of Military Forces.
URBAN: Yes. So, it was used over and over again and the Congressman knows this. There's big debates about this. The Congressman put forth his own AUMF to take up arms against Ukraine if needed. But these are things that should be debated full-throatedly amongst our Congress and leaders and Donald Trump is making that point.
Listen, if we're going to spend our most precious resource, we need to make sure that people have a full-throated discussion and it's not just kick a can down the road for 20 years, like we did in Afghanistan.
We had 21-year wars in Afghanistan and that's why people are weary today about further entanglement and getting caught up in more wars. And I think that's why unfortunately, like I support Congressman Kinzinger and I feel the same way about Ukraine, but unfortunately the American people, lots of them don't because they've been misled in the past.
COOPER: He said none of that -- but go ahead, Congressman.
KINZINGER: Well, what is pointing nine guns at her face have to do with the fact that Congress should debate stuff and yes, Congress should debate that, unfortunately, with Donald Trump, he never came to Congress, Donald Trump made decisions as he does under Article II of the Constitution, but to say nine guns pointed at her face, she doesn't have a right -- all she wants to do is get people killed. And this guy is scared to death of the battlefield, too.
And yet, he wants to be president. He's scared to stand up and use the military evidently, because if you'd be frightened on a battlefield, you're unqualified. It's a garbage thing and to defend it makes no sense to me. This is people's lives we're playing with and, you know, cheap political points.
URBAN: I just think that he's greeted -- he's greeted grieving families at Dover. I haven't, I don't know if you stood there. I've not done that. I've not made those phone calls. I think that's a pretty big responsibility that every president has and I think that changes you and it changes the way you look at things.
COOPER: Ashley, I mean, how much do you expect the Harris campaign to emphasize these comments moving forward or do you think today was it?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: No, I mean absolutely, they're going to continue to sort of seize on this opportunity because, you know, it serves as an example of the corrosive nature that Donald Trump has had on not just our nation, but our nation's politics. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's repeatedly, his words have repeatedly led to violence and you know, there's no question left about who Donald Trump is.
So from my perspective, I think the campaign is going to lean into to the point that there's a choice here in this election and, you know, if Donald Trump wins, it really says more about the character of this nation than it does about Donald Trump, that people are going to go into the booth and affirm that this is the person that they want representing them in the world. They're going to condone this type of action and corrosive, violent, dangerous actions from the president. I mean, actions I wouldn't even condone from my nine-year-old.
So for me, it really leaves this -- begs this question of the 48 percent that's holding firm behind Donald Trump, where, you know, what is beyond the pale anymore?
If it's not, you know, inciting an insurrection, you know, being -- violent rhetoric toward members of Congress, the worst economy in modern history, what is beyond the pale anymore if not this kind of stuff?
COOPER: Maggie, is it clear to you how the former president is feeling about the race right now? I mean do you have any sense of -- is he confident? How is his advisers feel, at least?
HABERMAN: Yes, he's very confident and most of his advisers are very confident. There is a tier of people around the campaign not necessarily directly in it, who are a little more anxious. They're not quite certain what to make of what they're seeing in terms of some of the data and they're not quite certain what to make in terms of what they're seeing of Trump's upcoming schedule.
He's going to North Carolina apparently several times in the next couple of days. These were late adds to his schedule. You don't normally go to a battleground state four times in three days if you're not at least somewhat concerned about shoring it up.
So, you know, all of these states are within margins of error. And again, the Trump team has felt very good about it based on their read of early vote data. But the two campaigns have very different models that they're using of what the turnout looks like and who is voting for whom. And one of them will be right and one won't.
Can I make just one more point, Anderson --
COOPER: Yes.
HABERMAN: -- as we're having this conversation about Donald Trump and things he says and so forth.
Donald Trump has been -- this is not some new version of Donald Trump, this is not a new person who's running this cycle. He is the same person he has always been. He is a person with much less of a filter than he had before.
The language is much darker. He is often more rambling and more incoherent, but he is somebody who has often glorified violence. He has been saying things like this since the 2016 campaign. It's not like, you know, he might be at a 60 now and he was a 30 before. He certainly was never a zero.
[20:15:24]
And so, the degree to which people who were around him and supported him and tolerated it throughout the presidency or throughout the 2016 campaign, I understand that what happened in the aftermath of the 2020 election was unlike anything we have seen before, and that was a breaking point for a lot of people, although not by any means most Republicans. But he's not significantly different than who he was before though.
COOPER: We're going to pick up this conversation shortly. We'll have more from the team.
Next, breaking news from the Supreme Court on voting in Pennsylvania. It's important what the court just said about mail-in ballots and what it could mean in one of the most hotly contested states of the campaign.
And later, what voters in the Philadelphia suburbs are telling John King about their choice this election, as well as echoes of 2016, when Hillary Clinton tried and failed to win Pennsylvania, more on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:36]
COOPER: More breaking news tonight, in this case, concerning perhaps the pivotal state in the election, Pennsylvania, where every vote is going to count and if 2020 is any guide, so will every court ruling, including the one tonight from the Supreme Court, which gives voters whose mail-in ballots are rejected for technical reasons, it gives them a backup option.
CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig joins us now. Can you just elaborate on what the court said?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Okay, to understand this ruling, Anderson, you have to understand how mail-in balloting works in Pennsylvania. I brought some visual aids.
So, if you are a voter in Pennsylvania. First, you fill out your ballot, not an official ballot. You fill out your ballot. Then it goes into a small envelope called the secrecy envelope. Then you have to take that small envelope and put it into a larger envelope called the declaration envelope.
And then you have your package ready to go, you mail it in and you're good. If you do that, your vote will be counted.
The problem is, a lot of voters in Pennsylvania, thousands forget the secrecy envelope and they just take the ballot and they put it in the declaration envelope. Now, under the law of Pennsylvania, this ballot would be void, it's no good. Democrats didn't like that. They sued and they won.
And the Pennsylvania Supreme Court said if a person just sends in the ballot without the secrecy envelope, then the voter can still go cast a provisional ballot on Tuesday on election day. Now, Republicans didn't like that. So Republicans asked the US Supreme Court to step in and just an hour ago, the US Supreme Court said, no, we're not stepping in. So it goes back to where we were, which is this. If you are a voter in Pennsylvania and you think you've sent in your ballot without the secrecy ballot, you think you screwed up somehow, you can still go to the balloting place, the voting place on Tuesday and put in a provisional vote and it will be counted.
COOPER: But would you know, I mean, if you're -- how do you know?
HOENIG: So, great question. Some counties in Pennsylvania will notify you. They will send you a notice saying hey, we got your mail-in ballot. You screwed it up. Its void. Therefore you can go cast a provisional ballot.
Other counties don't give the notification. So, I guess it's just one of those moments of, oh no, did I maybe send it in wrong? In which case, again, that's what a provisional ballot is for. It's a just in case ballot.
COOPER: So, this was decided on the what they called the emergency docket. There were no noted dissents -- Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, they wrote a brief separate statement explaining their decision.
I want to put up on the screen what they said. They said "... even if we agreed with the applicant's federal constitutional argument, (a question on which I express no view at this time), we could not prevent the consequences they fear." What does that mean?
HOENIG: So, first of all, this decision tonight not to get involved by the US Supreme Court. It was nine-zero. Some people I think were expecting the six to three conservative liberal split, nine-zero.
Now, the three of the conservatives issued a separate decision and essentially what we saw just there is those justices said it's sort of too little, too late. They said this dispute actually goes back to a primary from last year, and it only affected a handful of ballots. And even if we were to put that on hold that wouldn't bind statewide officials in the general election next week.
So, this is a big win for Democrats, right? As you said, I mean, Pennsylvania is the most important state. There are thousands of people who mess up the way they send in their ballots.
COOPER: Is the Supreme Court prepared for potential flood of litigation in this election?
HOENIG: They'd better be. I mean, they're in session now. We've already seen two big rulings by the Supreme Court today. This is all happening, by the way, important to understand what's called the emergency docket.
So, were not going to see necessarily the standard briefs and briefs the other way and then arguments. They're going to be ruling very quickly. And a lot of times like this case here, it's an emergency application. So the parties are saying just step in and block this. But I think this is an interesting indicator from the Supreme Court. I think there's a lot of skepticism out there that they were going to want to inject themselves, maybe in favor of the Republican candidate. That's not what they did tonight.
COOPER: All right. Elie Hoenig, thanks so much.
HOENIG: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Joining us right now are veteran pollsters and communications strategist, Frank Luntz, also Kristen Soltis Anderson, who is a Republican pollster and CNN political commentator.
So, Frank, we mentioned at the top of the program the new Marist polling showing Harris leading Trump in so-called blue wall states of Pennsylvania, Michigan Wisconsin, all within the margin of error? Do you take anything away from that?
FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATION STRATEGIST: I take that it's impossible that it's so close and that it is impossible to figure out the mindset.
To me, I'm not looking as much at the polling anymore because that's determined. I don't believe there are any more undecideds. There are still non-committed. There are still persuadables, but if you're undecided, you reject both candidates. You don't like them. You're not voting for them.
To me, I'm trying to figure out what the turnout is going to be and the group that I'm watching more than any other are young women.
If they come out in significant numbers, if they make a bigger percentage of the overall voter pool, then that is great news for Harris that may propel her.
The other group that I'm watching are Latinos. Some of that has been muddied over what happened in Madison Square Garden earlier this week, but the Latino population is voting in good numbers in the Western States and that's critical in Arizona and Nevada. What they do could also be decisive.
[20:25:31]
COOPER: Kristen, the Marist poll also found a significant gender gap in each state. The gender gap, I think 12 points in Pennsylvania, 17 in Michigan, 21 in Wisconsin, with Harris having the advantage with women. Trump having an advantage with men. How impactful could that be? Do you buy any of this right now? What are you looking at?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I certainly expect there will be a gender gap. There was a gender gap four years ago when it was Trump versus Biden. So it wouldn't surprise me if we see a gender gap that's that big this time around. I think the question then will be turnout. And we know that women make up a majority of voters. But after the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe versus Wade, we know that women turned out in even bigger than expected numbers for a midterm especially those younger women that Frank talked about.
If that materializes, that could be a problem for Trump, which is in part why he's made reaching young men such a big part of his strategy. Young voters, both male and female, have not really been into Republicans over the last decade. Trump is trying to turn that around, knowing that he's probably not going to do well with young women. But can he try to run up the score with young men?
COOPER: Frank, have polls, you know, a lot of people, you know, know that in past years, Trump over performed in some polls, have pollsters figured out a built in, you know, mechanisms? I'm not sure how it would be done to compensate for that?
LUNTZ: You have to ask every pollster because their strategies are different. And frankly, I don't believe in this so-called shy Trump voter this time. That Trump people are not afraid to voice their point of view. And all the focus groups I've been doing up to up to right now.
Trump people are very loud, very vocal very willing to acknowledge who they voted for or will vote for and very willing to participate. That they've underestimated Trump in 2016. They underestimated Trump in 2020 and what we don't know is whether these pollsters have overcompensated and gone too far to address this hidden Trump voter, and that distorts the data.
COOPER: Kristen, I saw a recent, I think it was in "The New York Times'" op-ed where you said that despite most of the polls showing Trump and Harris in a dead heat, that they that these polls don't all tell the same underlying story. What are your theories on that underlying story? How this might unfold.
ANDERSON: So, this election could wind up being very close, but it could also turn out two very different ways under the surface about where America is heading. On the one hand, this election could be a reboot of past elections where we see familiar divides, old and young voting differently, White and voters of color voting very differently.
But Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have scrambled the deck a little bit. Harris has been doing better among White voters with college degrees. Donald Trump a little better with voters who are Black and Latino, especially men who are more working class, and that would scramble the way we think about our political divides.
If we see a smaller generation gap, older, breaking more left, younger breaking more right because of young men, it would be very interesting to see what our new politics would look like with those divides.
COOPER: Well, Kristen, just on that point, I mean, there is -- we see a gender gap in early voting data in the battleground states. More women casting early votes than men. It is slightly narrower than at this point four years ago, right? ANDERSON: Well, I would be very cautious of looking at too much early vote data and I say this is someone who is a pollster. I love all these data but I'm the first person that will tell you there's a lot of uncertainty out of there.
And just remember, the benchmark we're comparing it four years ago. We were in the midst of a global respiratory pandemic, a lot of states have changed the way voting was accessible in their states and so it's possible that some of these patterns have changed.
Some Republicans who didn't want to vote early last time, may have come around to it. It's hard to read a lot into what this early vote data tells us.
COOPER: All right, Kristen Soltis Anderson, Frank Luntz, thank you. Always good to talk to you.
Up next, John King joins us again to share his discussions with voters in the suburbs of Philadelphia who could determine which candidate wins Pennsylvania and possibly the presidency.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:45]
COOPER: Philadelphia suburbs are going to be of keen interest Tuesday night. Enthusiasm for the vice president could be a tipping point in the stage she almost certainly needs to win the White House.
John King visited one community in his final all over the map report ahead of the election there. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Swarthmore is a postcard of suburban life. Leafy, friendly Philadelphia, just a 30 minute commute by train. Home to Shannon Elliott, her family and her small business.
SHANNON ELLIOTT, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: We have a beautiful college campus, woods, trails, close proximity to a lot of different things, but just often a quiet, close knit community.
KING (voice-over): This is southeast Pennsylvania, Delaware County, a place where Kamala Harris needs to win big if she hopes to claim the biggest of the battleground prizes.
ELLIOTT: A lot of the messages I get are more panic and so I feel panicked.
KING (voice-over): Elliot's vote is not in question.
ELLIOTT: I don't want to go back there. I see how he treats people and bullies people and these are things I tell my teenage kids not to do. Why would I want to see my president doing that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You need a sign. KING (voice-over): Harris needs to match or beat Biden's 2020 numbers
in the suburbs.
ELLIOTT: I'll fix it up.
KING (voice-over): But Elliot hears hints of apathy and of sexism. Hints of 2016.
[20:35:00]
ELLIOTT: I think people were afraid to vote for a woman once it got down to the final choice, and they made a mistake. And now here we are again with that same decision facing people. And I'm worried. I'm worried it's going to happen again.
KING (voice-over): Delaware County is reliably blue, but there are pockets where Trump runs strong.
KRISTIN CAPARRA, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: I'm most upset about the lack of a border and the lack of our sovereignty and how that's eroded in the last three years. And I feel as an American citizen, I'm underserved, over taxed. I'm kind of diminished.
KING (voice-over): Kristin Caparra, a registered Republican at the age of 18 back in 1988. The Philadelphia suburbs were red then, but Caparra is outnumbered in her Drexel Hill neighborhood now.
CAPARRA: We vote on different sides of the aisle, but we are proud Americans. The American flag is outside all of our homes. And so I'm very comfortable there.
KING (voice-over): This is her New Jersey beach cottage, Lola and Taylor, her friendly labs.
CAPARRA: Push onto your left there.
KING (voice-over): And this is back in Delaware County where Caparra teaches figure skating. She believes Trump will run stronger this year because of concerns about inflation, the border, and whether Harris is too liberal.
CAPARRA: Well, I think right now there's a very quiet Trump vote. He does have some bizarre behaviors, but at the end of the day, I feel he's patriotic and I feel he loves this country and my version of this country a little more dearly than the other side.
KING (voice-over): The suburbs settle close races here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And back with us with John King. Harris needs to win the suburbs by how much?
KING: By a ton, Anderson. 67 counties in Pennsylvania. Joe Biden carried only 13 of them. Only 13 of 67. How do you win by carrying only that small number? By running it up where people vote blue. Let me bring in the map and show you. And let's go through these
Pennsylvania count. The three collar counties right around Philadelphia. Bucks County is one of them. It's the most competitive. See how the president did in 2020. Look at how Hillary Clinton did four years before that. She won it, but not by as much.
Let's move to Montgomery County. She won it there pretty comfortably. But then come to 2020. Joe Biden won it by even more. This is where I am tonight, Delaware County. Look at that huge Biden margin. Four years before that, Hillary Clinton also won it, but not quite as big. In just those three counties. In just those three counties, Montgomery, Bucks and Delaware, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 162,000 votes.
In those same three counties, Joe Biden beat Donald Trump by 239,000 votes. What is the difference there. Let me come back to the 2020 map. Joe Biden got 76,000 more votes, a 76,000 vote advantage over Hillary Clinton in those three suburban counties. Right. How much did he win Pennsylvania by? 81,000 votes. Suburban math matters. Harris runs it up here. She has a chance.
COOPER: All right, John King, thanks very much. Coming up, John F. Kennedy, Jr. has endorsed a number of false conspiracy theories, particularly about vaccines. He also admitted to dumping a dead bear in Central Park. So, why does the former president want to give him a top position overseeing health care? Why does he keep mentioning it on the campaign trail? Our panel weighs in. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:42:32]
COOPER: The former president was in battleground Michigan earlier today said Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Would have a major role overseeing health care in a future Trump administration despite Kennedy's well documented history of endorsing medical conspiracy theories. Kennedy was standing right behind Trump as he was saying it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNDIENTIFIED MALE: You said last night you essentially let Robert F. Kennedy Jr. do whatever he wants with health care. What --
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's going to have a big role in healthcare.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: HHS, maybe?
TRUMP: In fact, we just -- we just left. In fact, I think he might be here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMLAE: He's right. He's right here.
UNIDENATIFIED MALE: You're comfortable with his views on --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will he run HHS? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're comfortable with his view on vaccines, Mr. President?
TRUMP: We'll be talking about a lot of things, but he's going to have a big role in health care, a very big role.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it HHS, maybe?
TRUMP: He knows it better than anybody. He's got some views that I happen to agree with very strongly and I have for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Trump's comments come a day after he specifically mentioned vaccines being a part of Kennedy's healthcare portfolio in a future administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He really wants to, with the pesticides and all the different things. I said he can do it. He can do anything he wants. He wants to look at the vaccines. He wants everything. I think it's great. I think it's great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was Thursday. Wednesday night, a Trump transition team co-chair appeared to endorse Kennedy's anti-vaccine theories in an appearance with Kaitlan Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Vaccines are safe. RFK. I mean, he --
HOWARD LUTNICK, TRUMP-VANCE TRANSITION TEAM CO-CHAIR: Why do you think vaccines are safe? There's no product liability anymore. They're not proven.
COLLINS: Kids get them and they're fine.
LUTNICK: Why do you think they're fine?
COLLINS: But because they're proven scientifically to --
LUTNICK: How about this? There was 1 in 10,000 people of autism. We all know so many more people with autism than added when were young. Oh, come on. I mean, his point is really interesting.
COLLINS: But vaccines don't cause autism.
LUTNICK: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now we should point out that after backlash to those comments, that guy Howard Lutnick issued a statement, quote, to be clear, my wife and I trust our doctors and following their advice have vaccinated our children and ourselves. However, not everybody trusts such advice or the FDA. We would be doing everyone a disservice if the government respected Bobby Kennedy's request to make full data available.
Kennedy's healthcare portfolio in a Trump administration, however, could expand passed vaccines. This was Trump last night in another battleground state, Nevada.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. we have. And he's going to work on health and women's health and all of the different reasons because we're not really a wealthy or a healthy country. We're not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:45:02]
COOPER: This afternoon, Vice President Harris responded while in Wisconsin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He has indicated that the person who would be in charge of health care for the American people is someone who has routinely promoted junk science and crazy conspiracy theories, who once expressed support for a national abortion ban, and who is the exact last person in America who should be setting health care policy for America's families and children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Back with us, Maggie Haberman, David Urban, and Ashley Etienne. Maggie, the fact that RFK Jr. is out on the campaign trail with Trump obviously suggests Trump thinks he can be helpful in these final days. Is there any concern you've heard inside the campaign about the actual prospect of Kennedy being a turnoff to swing voters or particularly women?
HABERMAN: No. In general, most people in the campaign are actually pretty happy about him. There are a few people who I think have questioned using him so heavily, but most of them think that the endorsement from RFK of Trump was a big moment for the campaign and it added to momentum at a crucial time.
Also, RFK Jr. is on the ballot still in Wisconsin and Michigan. So even though he's not a candidate anymore, I think that part of what Trump is doing is just trying to appeal to those voters. But do I think that RFK Jr. is likely to play some kind of a health role in the administration? I do. He has had this conversation with Trump before in late 2016 or early 2017 during the transition when Trump was elected then. Trump was very skeptical of childhood vaccines during his own presidential race in 2016.
So there is a like mindedness. And also when Trump says things like, I'm going to let him go nuts. Most federal agencies Trump didn't have that much interest in. He cared about the Defense Department, the Justice Department, and the intelligence community.
But beyond that, he wasn't especially focused on it. It was basically that he just wanted people to go out and succeed. And so I do think that you would see RFK Jr. playing some significant role. What exactly that looks like, I don't know, but I think it's real.
COOPER: I think we lost David Urban, but I'll go to Ashley. We'll try to get David back. Ashley, so we played Harris's comments about RFK Jr. being, quote, the exact last person in America should be setting health care policy. Trump was asked about that comment, said it's just sour grapes over a member of the Kennedy family supporting him.
Do you think this actually would appeal to Harris supporters? Is this something that would motivate people to vote?
ETIENNE: Yes. No, I don't think this will be a major factor, but really what it reinforces is this, you know, of who Donald Trump is.
It's to Maggie's point, I mean, Robert F. Kennedy just reinforces what we already know about Donald Trump. I mean, you know, the scary thing is that Donald Trump would stack his cabinet. I mean, this gets back to the choice. Would stack his cabinet with people who are not living in reality, who are conspiracy theorists, who are anti-vaxx, anti- science, anti LGBTQ, antisemites, I mean, a whole host of questionable people in his administration primarily because they wouldn't check his worst instincts. And that's the scary part.
And I mean, to Vice President Harris point, America deserves better than this. America deserves better than someone running HHS who does not believe in vaccines. And, you know, but again, what do we expect from Donald Trump? This is someone who misled the public in the middle of a deadly pandemic and half a million people died.
So it's what we've come to expect. But to Harris' point, America deserves better.
COOPER: David, I'm glad you're back. I didn't want to have any conspiracy theories that we had suddenly flipped you off the screen. So there's, I mean, what do you think of the RFK, I mean, influence? Is it -- do you think it's a turn off to some of the, like, Nikki Haley, you know, voters who might support him?
URBAN: Listen, Anderson, I think that there's a wide swath of Americans have a great distrust of our government, especially post- pandemic, because of all the things they were told. They had a healthy skepticism going into the pandemic. And then they -- I feel that they, you know, they feel that they were -- their fears were cast aside and they couldn't do search terms. The government censored them.
Listen, I think Bobby Kennedy is smartest when he's talking about actual health. You know, one in three kids today, one in three teenagers is pre-diabetic in America. It's incredible. Only 10 years ago, that number was in half. We've had a huge gain in kids being pre diabetic. Kids are getting fat. It affects military recruiting. It's incredible. Our military budget's 800 billion. We spend $400 billion in America on diabetes. Bobby Kennedy wants to talk about that.
Why are kids obese today? What are we eating? What are we feeding our kids? Why are Americans so unhealthy? I think if he talks about that and focuses on --
[20:50:00]
COOPER: But do you see him as head of HHS? I mean, what do you see?
URBAN: No. No. No, no, listen. I mean --
COOPER: Trump is saying he can do whatever he wants. Trump is saying he can do whatever he wants.
URBAN: He's not. Listen, Howard Lutnick is compiling a long list of very capable people.
COOPER: So what do you think he does?
URBAN: Very smart.
COOPER: If he doesn't --
URBAN: He'll be an advisor. He'll have -- he'll have some role in whether it's, you know, make America healthy czar. I don't know whether there's plenty of czars given out in every presidency. So I'd like to see him focus on those types of things. Making Americans healthy, eat healthier, getting pesticides out of our foods, making sure kids stay healthy.
Listen, diabetes is rampant amongst the African American community. They suffer disproportionately. So I'd like to see it addressed, you know, and rectified.
COOPER: Maggie, I mean, is that what the role is, that he's going to be like a cheerleader or something? Like, like a poo -- what is -- have you heard anything?
HABERMAN: It would be something more like that. He's not -- I don't expect that he's going to be the HHS secretary for a variety of reasons, one of which is that I think there is some concern that he would go through a difficult confirmation fight.
But I do think that if he comes into the administration, he will be in some kind of an over czar, whatever title you want to give it, overseeing these agencies. I think that is a real possibility.
COOPER: All right, thanks everybody. Appreciate it. Coming up next, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis facing criticism, accused of using taxpayer money to fight against the abortion amendment on the ballot next Tuesday. Details on that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:56:11] COOPER: This election, voters in 10 states have measures on the ballot to restrict or expand abortion rights, including Florida, and comes after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade two years ago, handing the issue, of course, back to the states.
In May, a new law took effect in Florida banning access to abortion past six weeks of pregnancy. The law was pushed by the Republican governor Ron DeSantis. Amendment 4, now on the ballot, proposes expanding abortion access to viability, which is about 23 for 24 weeks or to protect the life of the mother.
Now some of the opposition is coming directly from the governor, who's accused of using taxpayer money to actually fight it. Randi Kaye has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOV. RON DESANTIS (R) FLORIDA: Amendment 4 this is an intentional deception on the public.
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Florida Governor Ron DeSantis amping up his rhetoric against Florida's abortion amendment, known as Amendment 4.
DESANTIS: When you're dealing with constitutional amendments, your default should always be no.
KAYE (voice-over): Amendment 4, if approved, would do away with Florida's current six-week abortion ban signed into law by DeSantis, and enshrined the right to an abortion before viability in the state constitution.
LAUREN BRENZEL, CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR, YES ON 4 FLORIDA CAMPAIGN: It's incredibly unfortunate in the state of Florida to see taxpayer resources wasted on a political campaign.
KAYE (voice-over): DeSantis has brought the full force of his office and state agencies to defeat Amendment 4, and the state appears to be spending millions in taxpayer dollars to do so.
JASON GARCIA, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST: This is the government that is supposed to be administering these elections, not putting its thumb on the scale.
KAYE (voice-over): Independent journalist Jason Garcia has been working to connect the dots on the state spending.
GARCIA: It appears that the DeSantis administration is spending more than $19 million of taxpayer money. Much of that spending appears to be specifically related to Amendment 4, but what ultimately they are funding massive television advertising campaign.
KAYE (voice-over): Based on the timing and subject matter of the purchase orders in a state database, there is every indication that taxpayer dollars were used. But DeSantis' office has refused to answer reporters specific questions, including hours, about the money spent. Last month, Floridians Protecting Freedom, the organization running
the Yes on 4 Campaign, filed a lawsuit against the state accusing Florida's Agency for Healthcare Administration of launching a state run taxpayer funded website, proclaiming that proponents of Amendment 4 are telling lies. The group also accuses the state of using taxpayer money to buy TV advertisements like this one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Florida law puts women's health and safety first.
KAYE (voice-over): The state has also spent money sending cease and desist letters to TV stations that ran commercials encouraging Floridians to vote yes on Amendment 4.
CAROLINE, TAMPA, FLORIDA: The doctors knew if I did not in my pregnancy, I would lose my baby, I would lose my life.
KAYE (voice-over): The letters were signed by the general counsel for the Department of Health. According to this signed affidavit, he resigned after he was pressured to send more letters suggesting the stations could face charges. Letters he said were written by lawyers working for DeSantis.
A judge has since blocked Florida's health department from threatening TV stations any further over the ads.
BRENZEL: We certainly shouldn't be using state resources to threaten TV stations from airing the stories of women who need to access abortion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Randi Kaye joins us now from Florida. Any word from DeSantis office tonight?
KAYE: No word, Anderson, which isn't entirely surprising. This is usually how it goes with the DeSantis administration. But we did send them, Anderson, very specific questions about the money being spent to fight Amendment 4 here in Florida.
Now his spokesman did send a statement to POLITICO and I can share part of that with you. It says state agencies have the authority and dedicated funding, as he put it, to educate the public on important issues, especially those that impact the health and safety of women and children.
So he doesn't address the taxpayer money there, but he does say there's dedicated funding. It's also worth noting, Anderson, that this amendment needs 60 percent, at least 60 percent support to have it pass and to replace the near total abortion ban that's on the books here in the state of Florida now.
[21:00:08]
COOPER: All right, one more thing to watch for on election night. Randi Kaye. Thank you. Quick programming note, we're back on Sunday with a special pre-election edition of 360 that will be the same time, 8 Eastern right here on CNN. I hope you join us for that. I hope you have a good weekend. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
