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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Source: Elon Musk Joined Trump-Zelenskyy Call After Election; Trump Weighs More Picks For Incoming Cabinet; DOJ Announces Charges In Alleged Iranian Plot To Kill Trump; Trump Won More Black Voters Than Any Other Republican In 48 Years; Judge Grants Smith's Request To Pause Trump Jan. 6 Case; House Republicans Tell Special Counsel Investigating Trump To Save Records Related To Investigations; Trump Names First Woman Chief Of Staff In White House History. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired November 08, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: His comments about Taiwan needing to pay the US for protection. This is a transactional approach that they are keenly aware of here and raises a lot of doubts about whether the US would actually intervene if China were to attack.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All of this now, something we may -- we all live through and see how it goes.

Will, thank you and thanks so much to all of you as always. Anderson starts now.

[20:00:34]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360: Donald Trump talks with Ukraine's president and Elon Musk is on the call. The question tonight, what was said and what was it about Trump's prior promises to quickly end the war.

Also tonight, details on what federal prosecutors say was a plot by Iran to assassinate Trump before the election.

And later, after two years of more than three dozen felony indictments, Special Counsel Jack Smith is winding down the government's cases against the president-elect.

Good evening, thanks for joining us.

The President-elect Trump prepares to name more people to his administration, perhaps including some of the names that we will show you. There is new reporting tonight on some of the moves he is already making, as well as talks that some of the government are having about worst-case scenarios involving him as commander-in-chief.

Defense officials tell us that informal discussions are underway at the Pentagon about how the department might respond if the new president ordered active-duty troops onto US streets or fires large numbers of nonpolitical staffers. That news coming as we learned that when the president-elect spoke by phone with Ukraine's president on Wednesday, Elon Musk joined the call.

Ukraine's military, you'll remember relies on Musk's Starlink communication satellite. It has been critical in the fight there. "The Wall Street Journal" earlier reported that Musk had also been in regular contact with Vladimir Putin since the 2022. Both he and the president-elect have talked publicly about Ukraine making concessions to end the war with Mr. Trump arguing recently that Ukraine should have made a deal with Moscow even before Russian troops invaded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Any deal, even the worst deal would have been better than what we have right now. If they made a bad deal, it would have been much better, and it didn't need to happen.

Those buildings are down, those as it is are gone. They are gone and we continue to give billions of dollars to a man who refuses to make a deal, Zelenskyy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: According to AXIOS' Barak Ravid who broke the story, Trump told Zelenskyy he would support Ukraine but did not go into details on policy. Ravid reports, according to sources, that Ukraine's president came away from the call, "Somewhat reassured by what he heard from the president-elect."

Now between that, the Pentagon reporting, the behind-the-scenes jockeying for new positions in the administration, there is a lot to get to tonight. With us is Kaitlan Collins, anchor of the "The Source" and the top of the next hour, she is back from Mar-a-Lago.

So how much do you read into the fact that Elon Musk was on the phone call with Zelenskyy?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: I think for people who have been covering Trump in this campaign over the last few months, Anderson, it's not surprising because Trump has become quite enamored with Elon Musk and often wants to keep him involved in the conversations and discussions he's been having.

He was pretty heavily involved these last few weeks at the campaign, certainly, in Pennsylvania. And I think having him on the call with Zelenskyy just speaks to Elon Musk's influence and what that could look like in a second Trump term.

And obviously, he has stake in the game here since Ukraine is using his Starlink satellite communications service, which I should note, that is a contract with the Pentagon that expires at the end of next month. We will see what that looks like after that. But obviously, he has a lot of stake in this game.

And so, just for his presence to be on that call is notable because it is on with the world leader and the president-elect and the world's richest man who has major defense contracts. It also just speaks to how much influence Elon Musk has right now in

Trump's orbit.

COOPER: What is that jockeying for position like right now in this transitional period at Mar-a-Lago?

COLLINS: It is kind of remarkable because one, it is moving very quickly. That is what almost every single person I have spoken to about this, about just what's the current state of the jockeying, it changes sometimes by the hour, who is up and who is down as Trump is viewing who to put in these positions. Something he is taking seriously, I should note, this time around.

He says that his staffing choices in his first term were some of his biggest mistakes he had ever made. Citing people like Bill Barr, the attorney general. And so, he is taking it very seriously and because of that people know that in order to influence Trump you need to be right in front of him, either on the phone or in front of him having these conversations.

And so, there is a lot of jockeying having behind the scenes. A lot of alliances are being formed between people who are trying to say , if we stick together we can kill this other person off for this job and so often, when Trump makes these calls, it depends on the person who has the biggest influence on him when it comes to that.

COOPER: And are people literally at Mar-a-Lago kind of hoping to get face time?

COLLINS: Yes, they are all over Palm Beach, Anderson. I mean, it's kind of remarkable. I spent time there when Trump was president covering him and it's everywhere you go, you see potential Trump Cabinet members or West Wing officials hanging out at certain hotels or coffee shops or restaurants because a lot of them booked flights after Tuesday night's win because they knew how important it was to be down there.

It's kind of hard to get trump on the phone right now so a lot of them are just showing up and trying to get in front of him.

[20:05:22]

COOPER: As we mentioned, CNN's reporting that Pentagon officials have been holding informal discussions about how the Defense Department would respond if President Trump issued orders to deploy active duty troops domestically and fire large squads of apolitical staffers, which are obviously possibilities that came up on the campaign trail. What is your sense of how much he wants -- how likely any of that might be?

COLLINS: I think it's very likely. I think that when it comes to, you know, the way they talk about it is these career employees who were working at federal agencies. When you talk to a lot of those people, they are not majorly political but they are people who worked for a long time. There are thousands of positions and they have said, frankly they don't know how certain facets of the Pentagon are going to work if those people just disappear in two weeks from now.

And so, I think that's a question of, how much of the hollowing out they actually do that Trump and Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy had promised to do when it comes to the federal government. But at the DoD specifically, one thing I'm keeping an eye on is who Trump is going to pick us as his Defense secretary because he was very frustrated with several of the ones he picked the last time he was in office.

He took to the end of Mark Esper's term as the Defense secretary. He was calling him Mark 'Yesper' saying that he just says yes to everything and kind of ridiculing almost, or not even almost just out right in public. And so, he certainly wants someone that he has more cohesion with as Trump people would put it, essentially someone who does more of what he wants and less pushing back at the Pentagon.

COOPER: All right, Kaitlan, we will see that the top of the nine o'clock hour. One of Kaitlan's guests is going to be former Trump National Security adviser, John Bolton.

Joining us now, CNN political commentators, Ana Navarro, Scott Jennings and Van Jones, also journalist Gretchen Carlson, co-founder of Lift our Voices.

I mean, Scott, Elon Musk obviously critical in the campaign. What do you make of him joining this call? Apparently, according to Barak Ravid, he was also in a call with the leader of Turkey.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That doesn't surprise me at all actually and of course, Donald Trump can put anyone on the phone that he wants. I mean, I assume a lot of these calls are congratulatory in nature. And so, as furthermore policy driven calls take place, I would expect there to be other policy and administration officials or designated officials on the calls.

But in some juncture, Trump won and he has got a cadre of advisers that's obviously going to include Elon Musk and so, I don't think anybody should be surprised by this or alarmed by it either way.

COOPER: Ana.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's a little weird, right? Elon Musk seems to be everywhere at all times. He's like secretary of everything and at the same time he's like First Lady. The other day I saw this picture of him. It was a picture of Trump with his entire family except Melania, but Elon Musk was there and now you hear about this.

There is obviously also conflicts of interest. This is somebody who has contracts with the Department of Defense. This is somebody who has Starlink that's a big part of what's going on in Ukraine.

I find it a little weird but as Scott said, they won, he gets to do whatever he wants and if he wants Elon everywhere, all the time, that's what's going to happen.

COOPER: I mean it is, it's unusual but not surprising, I guess. GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: I think Elon Musk will go down as the

single most important and influential person in the Trump administration. He is in charge now of the information flow with X or misinformation sometimes. He is in charge as we saw with what is going on in Ukraine. He is basically in charge of the entire communication system over there, so it lives and dies with him.

Apparently, President-elect Trump is going to put him in charge of slashing costs and getting in to the federal bureaucracy and trying to figure out what departments and people to cut. I mean, he's basically going to be in charge and influencing every aspect of the government and I think that he will be the most influential adviser, non-paid that Trump will have.

COOPER: It's also interesting -- because again, there is -- you know, people have to go through Senate confirmation, there is people who have to submit all their background information. It seems like there is going to be a number of people just with that kind of a portfolio, an open portfolio without any really --

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You're so old-fashioned, Anderson.

COOPER: Like actually, I'm not saying -- I'm just --

JONES: Vetting of people to make sure they don't have conflicts of interest or make sure they don't have foreign governments with dirt on them, that's old fashioned. You win, you do what you want, that's the new way.

The reality is we're in a new -- people are trying to calm me down. They'll say, this is no big deal, this is all normal. This is not normal, this is a totally weird, this is bizarre.

The privatization of certain parts of American life, including our space program has real upsides because Elon Musk has done an incredible job with his space program. The problem is, he also has a conflict of interest with having this many government contracts and ordinarily, you wouldn't want any by with those kind of conflicts of interest helping to make policy.

[20:10:23]

But, we don't care anymore apparently but there are downsides to this new way. And also, Elon Musk has a disproportion amount of power and leverage over Ukraine anyway.

Ukraine wanted to go much more hard against Russia and Elon basically just pulled the plugs and you cannot go hard against Russia, so you already have a private citizen dictating the terms of the war for a whole sovereign nation sitting next to the president of the United States at a phone call.

This is all weird, it might work out great, it might work out perfectly, but let's not pretend this is normal. This is all really weird stuff. COOPER: The thing about the Pentagon, discussions at the Pentagon. I

don't know what level this is, it just seems like it's informal discussions I guess it's understandable they would have those discussions, it also, I mean, Scott, is it --

JENNINGS: Look, I don't like this because what's Donald Trump supposed to think, you know, he is sitting down there, he is the president- elect and now, he's going to read the newspaper tonight that the unelected bureaucracy of the federal government is having meetings at some level about how to thwart or counterman the commander-in-chief?

I don't care if it's at the Pentagon or at the HUD or Ag Department, it doesn't matter. The unelected bureaucracy of this government answers to the civilian and duly elected leadership that we just -- and if you were in his shoes and you just won the popular vote with a clear mandate and now you're going to read that these unelected bureaucrats are plotting against you, what would you think if they have a problem --

CARLSON: But I think there's a reason for that though --

JENNINGS: Let me finish, if they have problems, they should not have meetings that then leak to the press. If they have ideas or things, they should call the president's office and say hey, we like to have some discussions for planning purposes, but secret meetings that leak, terrible way to get off to a start with the new administration.

CARLSON: Well, I agree that that's maybe not the best way to do it, however, Trump has set them up to be in this situation where they think that he's coming after them. And he's talked about using the military --

JENNINGS: He won, he's the president, they are not.

CARLSON: Yes, but this is not necessarily --

COOPER: Well, first of all, we are discussing something we don't really know details of, so I just want to put that out. It's not I mean, you're portraying like it's a cabal of people plotting this, the other flipside of is, you can look at it as for planning purposes as you said, they want to figure out, okay well, in fact, if these are called, what mechanisms are there, what actually happens, if all these people are fired, I mean don't they need to panic for this?

NAVARRO: I've actually, been part of a transition right, when Jeb Bush was elected governor. Every department should be right now making plans on what the handover is going to look like, should be having meetings. I think there's an added concern because of Project 2025 and because some of the things that Donald Trump has said about eliminating and going after even career folks.

And so, what does that mean? When career folks who have the institutional memory, all of a sudden are gotten rid of, what does that mean?

COOPER: Essentially because these career folks is what Steve Bannon's called the deep state.

JONES: Yes, and I think you are making an important point. I have heard from people who are just regular old career people, they went to college, they got a degree in political science and have been working for the government for 14 years in their department and now they are concerned that if they don't swear a loyalty oath to Donald Trump not the Constitution, they might get fired.

These are just regular people, maybe they voted for Trump maybe they didn't. But this is a new thing, and so, if people are responding in ways that are different, it's because the president has said things that are different.

When you're labeled a deep state just because you've got a job working in some bureau some place. That is very, very scary for people.

CARLSON: And already today,

JONES: They are not to talk about it, they are --

CARLSON: You have Senator Mike Lee who is up for a potential high post with the president, you have him saying that the executive branch should be able to take over the Federal Reserve.

COOPER: Oh my God.

CARLSON: So, already, you have the Fed chair saying, over my dead body it is not going to happen because it has to remain independent. Already on, just two days after the election, we are talking about that.

COOPER: The Chairman of the Federal Reserve has said publicly he would not step down if Donald Trump won.

JONES: It's so important because you don't want the president to be able to say, hey buddy, put up a bunch of money. Hey buddy, like that's -- you are going to really undermine the dollar on the world stage if the Fed is just a puppet of the White House.

These institutions that give us this great life, we don't know what they are. It's like having a house and you don't know how it was built.

NAVARRO: Can I ask you something? If he wants to do all of this stuff that we're talking about, right, get rid of some of these officials that are just regular people. He wants to do these things that he has talked about doing. Where is the check and balance? Who is there? What is there to provide check and balance because there is no ethics czar. He has got the Senate. He is going to have the House, the Supreme Court has given him immunity. He won the popular vote.

Who is going to -- I mean like, the "Real Housewives" would say, who is going to check me, boo?

[20:15:20]

JENNINGS: The president is the unitary executive over the executive branch --

JONES: That's a theory.

JENNINGS: And he should have wide latitude to operate the executive branch the way he sees fit. There is a separate branch of government called the Congress and there's another one called the Court. They do check and balance each other and that's the way it's going to work and I think there's a lot of sort of freaking out going on. We just had the election on Tuesday.

JONES: And I was speaking out then, too.

JENNINGS: But he needs to be allowed to build a government and Democrats and the rest of the bureaucracy and everybody else in Washington needs to understand, he may do things a little differently but that's no reason to try to thwart the duly elected president of the United States.

JONES: But you need to lay out a theory, this unitary executive theory, that is a theory and it's not the theory that we've operated under at least since FDR, which is that you do not have the president of the United States asserting authority to fire everybody down to like the Post Office service people because those people, they've got civil service protection. You know why? To prevent patronage and to prevent corruption, and to prevent a president of the United States from being able to sell positions to people and that's being taken out.

CARLSON: I think that he was given a mandate to do deportation first or handle immigration, tax cuts, I think those things will happen first and I think the American people will be upset. They don't even understand the idea that he may be coming after federal employees nor do they care about it.

COOPER: Gretchen Carlson, thank you. Scott Jennings, Ana Navarro, Van Jones, is going to stay with us. We will be looking closer at the former president's successful effort to win support from Black voters.

Next, though, what we are all learning about the alleged Iranian plot on candidate Trump's life, the arrest made and how authorities broke the case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:47]

COOPER: The 2024 presidential campaign has already been darkened by attempts on Donald Trump's life, one in Butler, Pennsylvania where shots were fired and a man at the rally was killed. Another, one of his golf courses in Florida, when an armed man was arrested before any shots were fired.

Today, the Justice Department announced charges in another alleged plot. This one hatched in Iran to kill candidate Trump. CNN's Alex Marquardt has the latest. So, what do we know about this plot? ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well these

are murder for hire charges, Anderson, issued against three men. These were orders from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, the IRGC tasking a man named Farhad Shakeri with assassinating former, now future President Trump.

Now, the orders were given, we understand, to Shakeri who is an Afghan national believed to be at large in Iran. He actually spent time here in the US growing up and then he spent years in New York State Prisons and that is where the Feds believe he met many of his future accomplices including two of the co-defendants who were named in the documents that were unsealed today.

Now, Shakeri allegedly had a meeting with an IRGC official just a month ago on October 7th. He was told to come up with a plan to assassinate Trump before the election. He was told that you only have a week and if you don't do it within the next week we will wait until after the election because they assume that he was going to lose the election and that it would be easier to kill him after the election.

Now, Shakeri says he didn't plan on coming up with that plot within that timeframe and we know that because he was actually speaking with the FBI not once, but five times, Anderson, in the past few months. That's where they got a lot of this information, but this is not the first plot as you know, not the first Iranian plot to try to kill Trump and his allies.

A Pakistani man was charged back in August with plans to assassinate government officials, the Feds are believing including former President Trump.

COOPER: And what are federal authorities saying about other targets?

MARQUARDT: That Trump was not just the only target, in fact the main target they say was Masih Alinejad. She is a very prominent anti- regime human rights activist, a prominent journalist who lives here in the US. She has been on CNN a bunch of times and Shakeri we're told tasked his two accomplices here in the US, American nationals who are not in custody with tracking her down.

They followed her to Fairfield University where she was due to give a speech. They tried to track her down in Brooklyn where they thought she lived. He was going to pay them $100,000.00 for carrying this out. That attack never was carried out. Then there were two others of note, Anderson, two American-Jewish businessmen, the IRGC wanted killed.

There were going to offer $500,000.00 to Shakeri for each one and then another plot they wanted mounted if you will in Sri Lanka to kill Israeli tourists. And it got to point where just last month the Israeli and American governments issued warnings to their citizens there.

Now, this raises all kinds of questions about what future President Trump will do in response. As we know he went after the head of the Quds Force, Qasem Soleimani, killing him in a drone strike back in 2020 -- Anderson. COOPER: Alex Marquardt, appreciate it.

Joining us now a CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe, senior national security analyst and former deputy director national intelligence Beth Sanner and CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller.

Andrew, try to put this in perspective for us. How extraordinary is it to see a foreign government targeting a former candidate and now, the president-elect.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, it's remarkable, Anderson.

It is certainly not the kind of thing you see every day, but I have to say that we have seen the Iranians trying to act out in similar ways, not targeting a president or presidential candidate, but targeting other political figures in the United States.

In 2011, we uncovered a plot put out there by again the IRGC Quds Force to assassinate the Saudi ambassador to the United States here in DC. A similar plot, the use of a low-level criminal to hire criminal associates and distance the plot from official IRGC members.

So, that's really what you are seeing here, most of the complaints, a fascinating document is focused on a plot to assassinate the dissident in Brooklyn New York and then towards the end of the complaint, they talk about the tasking that he gets in this fall just towards in October actually to kind of shift his focus to then candidate Trump, and it's not clear what sort of action was actually undertaken to accomplish that.

[20:25:14]

COOPER: Beth, I mean this is not the first time the Iranian government has tried to kill President-elect Trump. Do you think there are more plots out there from Iran, that we don't know about?

BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Absolutely. What stage they are in is unclear, but Iran has been bent on taking retribution as Alex said for the killing of this IRGC general, the most important general in Iran, in charge of regional activities, all those proxy forces killing him in 2020, January of 2020. They've been at this and there have been active threats against, you know, a number of senior US officials.

Those threats haven't gone away, and some of those officials are not really fully protected by the US government the way that President Trump is.

So Iran is definitely emboldened and they are not going to give up. That is their MO.

COOPER: John, this seems obviously like an extremely dangerous step for Iran to be doing.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well it is and I mean --

COOPER: Desperate.

MILLER: That too, if you look at on these levels, you know, the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force in New York has worked all of these Iranian plots that Andy and Beth were just talking about. The NYPD Intelligence Bureau has done, the surveillance is there, arrested a guy with an AK-47 --

COOPER: Outside the activist's house in Brooklyn.

MILLER: Exactly. The Counterterrorism Bureau, the license plate readers, the video. There has been a massive effort to protect her, but that is a dissident who has been a bur in the side of Iran that they are on their third or fourth plot for.

As you ask, elevating that to a former president, a president-elect, a future president, you have to understand where Iran's head is here. As Beth would tell you in the intelligence analyst world, they talk about mirror imaging. You can't assume that the adversary is going to think with the same logic that you think about the same things.

Iran is in a position where they vowed revenge from the Ayatollah, to answer for the death of Soleimani where president Trump, when he was in office sent that missile. We've since seen the Israeli decimate Hezbollah, their main arm on the Israeli border, assassinate the leader of Hamas in the president's guesthouse in Tehran, and none of these revenge plots have worked out.

So, it's possible that they would do something so outsized, so foolish as to target someone like a president.

COOPER: Otherwise they are losing, they look weak in the region.

MILLER: That's, Karami, they're losing face, they are becoming a paper tiger. So, as unreasonable as it sounds to us, knowing that the retaliation would be crushing, this is something that they keep going at.

COOPER: Andrew, the President-elect Donald Trump is not the only target for this alleged assassin, does it surprise you how many people were originally targeted?

MCCABE: It's an incredible tale. It's worth reading the affidavit supporting the indictment, just to see the sort of detail that's in there. But yes, I mean, they start out really focused on the dissident, and then the next thing you know, if you believe the main defendant, Shakeri who is relating this to the FBI in a series of phone conversations that I can only describe as completely bizarre and that in the entirety of my career I have never seen a terrorism case with the main subject.

COOPER: Explain why is this guy giving this evidence to the FBI?

MCCABE: That's a great question and it's not explainable from the affidavit that we have. We know that they talked to something like five times. He is in Tehran allegedly and conducting these very revealing conversations directly with the FBI, calling the FBI from Iran, which is not a very good thing to do.

COOPER: So, this guy is Iran, talking to the FBI on the phone?

MCCABE: That's correct, yes, these were telephonic interviews that took place over presumably several weeks while he was in Tehran. So, there is a lot of questions there as to what would have been his motivation to engage directly with the FBI and reveal all of these very incriminating facts.

It's also clear from the affidavit the agent specifies that on a number of facts, he lied them. He lied about some things, tried to correct things later, didn't correct everything. So his credibility is definitely questionable. Now, the statements that he makes about targeting President-elect Trump come at the very end of the affidavit.

It is two very brief paragraphs. There is no clear evidence that action was taken. So you kind of have to -- I'm not trying to minimize this in any way. It is incredibly serious and if he is telling the truth, it indicates that Iran has a persistent interest in trying to kill President Trump. That is a terrible thing, but really, we need to drill down a bit on what the story is behind this source.

COOPER: Andrew McCabe, Beth Sanner, John Miller, thanks very much.

Coming up, we have breaking news, a new CNN projection in the key Senate race, the president-elect also once questioned whether Vice President Harris was Black and that was in response to a question about Republicans calling her a DEI hire. So, a question might be among some voters, why his support among Black men in battleground Pennsylvania more than doubled. Omar Jimenez is taking a look at that tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:30:37]

COOPER: CNN can now project that incumbent Democratic Senator Jacky Rosen will survive a challenge from Republican Sam Brown. This leaves the balance of power in the Senate at 52 Republicans and 46 Democrats, with two races still outstanding.

On the presidential side, just over one in five black men who voted for President-elect Trump, not much different than in 2020, but black men accounted for 41 percent of the total black vote this year. That's up from 33 percent in 2020, according to CNN exit polls and one of the many hard facts facing Democrats since Tuesday's election night loss.

Omar Jimenez is in Philadelphia with more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Have you actually noticed a shift among black men here in Pennsylvania?

LINWOOD HOLLAND, REPUBLICAN WARD LEADER, PHILADELPHIA: Definitely.

JIMENEZ: And what do you mean?

[20:35:02]

HOLLAND: I mean, when I was growing up, people used to say that the Republicans were for businesses and the Democrats were for the regular and working class. I don't think that's the same right now. I think maybe the roles have flipped a little bit.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Linwood Holland is a Republican ward leader here in Philadelphia. This election, he says, he has more Republican voters in his community than he's used to.

HOLLAND: And I've been in some places where some guy says, you know, I kind of like what he's doing. And they might talk, smack too, you know what I mean? So it doesn't bother them what he's saying. They, you know, like his macho image, I guess, or whatever he's doing. And they just want to be like, I want to be part of something different.

JIMENEZ: Now, to be clear, the overwhelming majority of black men in Pennsylvania supported Vice President Kamala Harris for president and supported President Joe Biden in 2020.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Now in 2020, based on CNN exit polls, just 10 percent of black men in Pennsylvania supported Donald Trump. This election though, that number jumped to 26 percent in the state. That's the biggest increase of any of the swing states. Nationally though, the shift was much smaller, going from 19 percent of black men in 2020 to 21 percent in 2024.

JIMENEZ: Have you noticed a shift within the black community just in conversations you've had over the last four to eight years?

CALVIN TUCKER, CHAIRMAN, PHILADELPHIA BLACK REPUBLICAN COUNCIL: Yes, absolutely. From 2016, you know, there was quiet support, but it was groundbreaking to vote another way. In 2020, it became more of a reality, you know, that there is an option here, right? In the next cycle, if that doesn't work, then we do something else, but we can't be permanently buried in the morass of voting one way for the rest of our life.

JIMENEZ (voice-over): Calvin Tucker is a Trump ally and chair of the Philadelphia Black Republican Council. He also believes economic reasons ranked above anything the former president has said.

TUCKER: You may misinterpret something someone says or, you know, you may -- I'm not voting for your attitude. I've worked for people that have not been as favorable to my -- to me as an individual, but at the end of the day, I can get a check and feed my family.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: And Omar joins us now. Did anyone speak to other issues than the economy? Was the economy front and center? JIMENEZ (on-camera): It was really front and center, but I asked one of them actually about the insurrection and to him, he said it wasn't really an issue. I asked why. He said because to him, Trump didn't explicitly call for violence, despite the violence that we end up -- that we did end up seeing from some of his supporters who were there to see him.

Now, while those two voices and profiles weren't necessarily representative of the majority of Black voters here in Philadelphia or Pennsylvania or black women, more than 95 percent of black women supported Vice President Harris or President Biden the past two cycles based on exit polling. It did give a little insight to some of what we saw from some black men this election cycle, who, as we see from some of the polling numbers this time, seem to up their support --

COOPER: Yes.

JIMENEZ (on-camera): -- for now the President-elect Trump.

COOPER: Omar Jimenez, appreciate it.

Perspective now from Van Jones, former special adviser to President Obama and Republican strategist Joe Pinion. Van, I mean, it's interesting, just the numbers in Pennsylvania, in particular, versus nationwide. Economy?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: All those people are sellouts. No, I'm just joking. That's the problem, though. Is that for too long, Democrats were trying to bully and shame people into voting for a party that we forgot people are sitting on a white hot stove with not enough money in their pocket, a lot of problems that haven't been resolved when it comes to education, community safety, and people got tired.

And one of the things the Democrat Party is going to have to do is actually listen more and lecture less when it comes to African American men.

JOSEPH PINION III, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, look, I think we talked about it a little bit outside, the old founding ethos of the black congressional caucus is that black people have no permanent friends and no permanent enemies, only permanent interest. And the reality is that for the better part of the last 50 years, black people writ large have made a permanent friend of the Democratic Party.

And finally, there are black men who realize that stove got a little bit too hot. The outcomes they were looking for had not been achieved. And when they decided to even raise their hand and say we're considering going another way, they were not greeted with concern, they were greeted with disdain.

They were called everything but a child of God, in the name of trying to preserve these values that the Democrats claim that they want to uphold. And so, yes, those numbers show two things. One, the frustration of black men that disproportionately are dealing with failing schools, dealing with issues with the criminal justice system. [20:40:03]

But they also show the Republican Party, it turns out when you spend money in pursuit of the black vote in a diligent and earnest way. As you saw in Pennsylvania, as you saw in Wisconsin, that needle does move. Because as you saw, moved a lot more in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin than it did nationally because that's where the money went.

COOPER: I mean, did the Republican Party spend a lot of money reaching out?

JONES: Yes. Well, absolutely. We woke up in a body bag. We -- the online outreach to African American men, the targeted outreach to African American men, you began to see it in people's conversation. You started hearing African American men who aren't even political saying the same exact thing over and over again because the Republican Party was spending money on ads, on -- and outreach, on streaming services and all kinds of stuff I'd never even heard of before.

And the Kamala Harris campaign wound up spending a bunch of money on TV ads. And the TV ads sucked. They did not appeal to anyone. And it -- but it was dial tested and it was all supposed to -- the data dummies were up there telling us these are great ads, but nobody liked the ads.

So this is -- people are now saying America is this racist, sexist, fascistic country because of this outcome. Listen, we've always had some racist, sexist, fascist people in the country. That's not what happened. What happened is you had some key parts of this coalition, especially black men who were not handled properly.

I can tell you right now, what was the agenda for immigrants? Comprehensive immigration reform. What's the agenda for women? Abortion. What's the agenda for transgender people? Dignity and respect. What was the agenda for black men? You still can't tell me. And that was a problem on our side.

And when somebody walks away from you, you can blame them, you can blame yourself. The Democratic Party now needs to start listening. Black men have good ideas. Black men have given the majority of our vote to this party, but we deserve more respect than we got. And when you don't give people respect, they don't stick around.

COOPER: Joe, do you -- is there something you think those voters expect now from President-elect Trump?

PINION: Look, I think there is a hard truth American politics. Is that if you feel as if nothing changes, at least let me vote for the person where the rising tide can perhaps lift all boats, including some of the boats that are a little bit rickety. And I think that black men remember that we did have 7 million jobs pre-COVID underneath President Trump, that we did have record low unemployment for black people under President Trump.

So those are real numbers. You can try to poke holes in them, but the financial reality that I think a lot of people were facing underneath President Trump, it felt better and the inflation that we have experienced certainly as a part of COVID didn't help.

JONES: The prices were higher but unemployment was actually lower and black building was actually better under Biden. The prices were what did us in. But let me just say one thing. Donald Trump has an opportunity to lock this in or to screw it up.

And if Donald Trump does what he said he's going to do, he will screw it up. Because the only thing Donald Trump promised black men, more stop and frisk, death penalty for drug sale, so -- hold on a second. More stop -- mandatory stop and frisk. Death penalty for drug sales and a whole bunch of other awful stuff.

COOPER: Real quick, I get --

PINION: The good times are over. No, look, I think --

JONES: We will see.

PINION: -- he promised that we're going to have school choice for every single family that calls this nation home. If you're looking at 80 percent of black children not able to do reading at grade level, not be able to do math at grade level, that is far and beyond the greatest thing he can do for the black community.

JONES: We'll see.

COOPER: Joe Pinion, Van Jones, appreciate it.

Coming up, what likely happens now in the special counsel's prosecution of Trump for election interference. This House Republicans put Jack Smith on notice. Details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:47:18]

COOPER: We've got the clearest indication today the federal prosecution against Donald Trump for election interference is likely winding down. Special Counsel Jack Smith asked for and was quickly granted a pause in all upcoming deadlines to assess how to move forward. Smith says he could have a decision on how to resolve the case by December 2nd.

Justice Department policy precludes prosecution upsetting presidents. Also, Trump said he would fire Smith if re-elected. Now remember, this is how Smith characterized the four federal charges against Trump in August of last year.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

JACK SMITH, SPECIAL COUNSEL: The attack on our nation's capital on January 6th, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy. It's described in the indictment. It was fueled by lies, lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the U.S. government, the nation's process of collecting, counting, and certifying the results of the presidential election. (END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: What a difference a year makes. Today's decision came the same day that two House Republicans, Jim Jordan and Barry Loudermilk, warned Smith in a letter to preserve all documents. The letter reads in part, "The Office of Special Counsel is not immune from transparency or above accountability for its actions."

I'm joined now by former Federal Prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin. So effectively, these cases are over. What happens to Jack Smith?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: The federal cases are just really over. I mean, there is never going to be a trial on January 6th. There is never going to be a trial on the Mar-a-Lago classified information case. As for Jack Smith, his investigation is over, whether he personally gets fired. You know, he's a Department of Justice employee, you know, he could maybe have a job there, but he will leave that investigation at the beginning of the Trump term next year.

The interesting question is, you know, what does Congress want with him? I mean, what does Congressman Jordan -- you know, that's -- there's an implicit threat there.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: But --

COOPER: I mean, can he be jailed somehow?

TOOBIN: I, you know, I -- as long as the rule of law exists in something like its current form, there is no way you can imprison Jack Smith. However, what you could do is call him in to testify. And there I would say to the Republicans, be careful what you ask for, because if Jack Smith has a forum to talk about these cases, it's -- I doubt it would go so well for President Trump.

COOPER: The other question is, will Jack Smith release a report putting evidence out there that he would have presented in court?

TOOBIN: Yes. I think that there's a certainty. In fact, I'm sure what that office is doing now, instead of preparing for trials, they're preparing for the report. Remember, Robert Mueller, who was a special counsel in the same -- under the same, you know, authority, issued a big report. Robert Hur, who was the -- who investigated President Biden's classified information, he also did a report.

[20:50:09]

That report, I am sure, Smith's team is rushing to get to Merrick Garland so that he can release it before the next administration --

COOPER: Would garland necessarily release it?

TOOBIN: I think it's a certainty. I mean there might be some review for classified information, but he would certainly release it perhaps with some redaction.

COOPER: It's interesting Elon Musk, of course, decided to weigh in on this in response to Jim Jordan's letter. He said that "Jack Smith's abuse of the justice system cannot go unpunished".

TOOBIN: Well, this is consistent with that letter from Jim Jordan, that there is this attempt to somehow put Jack Smith on trial. As I said, I don't know what you could possibly do, but I think this is the swagger of the victorious side in this election coming out. But in, in fact, I don't --

COOPER: What about the Fulton County, Georgia election interference case?

TOOBIN: You know, the -- apparently, the Trump team moved to dismiss that case. That case has been in a slow boat to nowhere for months. I mean, that case has basically been a disaster. Certainly while Trump is president for the next four years, it cannot go to trial. I don't think it's ever going to go to trial.

COOPER: What about the New York hush money?

TOOBIN: Well, that's -- that case is coming up on sentencing.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: But there is a legal issue that Judge Merchan has to resolve first, which is whether the Supreme Court's decision in Trump versus United States means that that case has to be retried. I think he will probably rule in favor of the government saying it doesn't have to be retried, but that is likely to be appealed, and that will delay the sentencing, I think, pretty much indefinitely.

However, I think Judge Merchan is smart enough that if he, in fact, gets this case to sentencing while Trump is president or even before Trump is president, he can't sentence him to prison. He can't sentence him to community service. It could only be a fine because you simply, in our system, can't have a president under that kind of restriction.

COOPER: Jeff Toobin, thanks very much.

TOOBIN: All right.

COOPER: Up next, what we know about Susie Wiles, who will be the new White House Chief of Staff, the first woman to hold the critical post.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:12]

COOPER: One of President-elect Trump's first decisions this week was to name his campaign co-chair Susie Wiles as his new White House Chief of Staff. Wiles would be the first woman ever to hold the powerful and important role. With more on who she is, here's Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Come here, Chris (ph). Susie likes to stay sort of in the back, let me tell you. The ice babe. We call her the ice babe.

RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump's newly minted chief of staff, Susie Wiles, does not enjoy the spotlight like her boss. The 40-year veteran of Republican politics prefers to operate behind the scenes.

JOE GRUTERS (R), FLORIDA STATE SENATE: She's a steady hand and she's a loyal foot soldier.

KAYE (voice-over): On her LinkedIn page under specialties, Wiles listed this, "Creating order from chaos." A skill that came in handy while running Trump's presidential campaign.

SUSIE WILES, AMERICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT: Candidates matter. What they stand for matters.

KAYE (voice-over): That was Wiles in 2020 speaking to CNN Affiliate WPLG after she delivered a win for Trump in Florida as head of his campaign operation in the state. She rarely gives interviews. Wiles first successfully ran Trump's Florida campaign in 2016. Then again in 2020.

WILES: The traditional republican voter coalition just simply can't. I don't believe elect Republicans any longer. So beginning to bring into the tent a larger number of Hispanic voters.

KAYE (voice-over): After his presidency, Wiles served as Trump's de facto chief of staff, then led his 2024 campaign. One of her goals, keep a close eye on who had access to the former president. Wiles has a string of political campaign success stories.

In 2010, she helped Rick Scott eke out a win to become governor of Florida. In 2018, she was tapped to save Ron DeSantis campaign for Florida governor. He won by 32,000 votes, the closest governor's election in state history.

After that, amid tensions, Wiles was ousted from DeSantis inner circle. She went back to work on Trump's Florida re-election team, but was dismissed at DeSantis's urging. In 2020, Trump brought her back amid concerns about his campaign's standing in Florida polls. He ended up winning Florida by more than three points against Joe Biden.

GRUTERS: Susie Wiles is the political version of Muhammad Ali. She does not lose. She is a relentless fighter.

KAYE (voice-over): That fighting spirit was instilled early on. She grew up with two brothers and is the daughter of professional football player turned television broadcaster Pat Summerall.

PAT SUMMERALL, PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL PLAYER: There was another way to live this life that I didn't have all the answers.

KAYE (voice-over): In his autobiography, Summerall shared that in 1992, during an intervention about his alcoholism, Wiles read a letter telling him at times she was ashamed they shared the same last name. Summerall got treatment after that.

Before agreeing to her new role in the Trump White House, CNN has learned Wiles insisted on certain conditions. Top of the list? More control over who has access to the Oval Office.

GRUTERS: She wants to make sure that the president's priorities are first and foremost followed through on. And that she don't want distraction. She is laser focused.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: And Randi joins us now from West Palm Beach, Florida near Mar- a-Lago. What is her overall style like that might benefit the Trump White House?

KAYE (on-camera): Well, Anderson, when I spoke with Senator Joe Gruters today, he told me that she has a very specific demeanor. She's very calming, but she's also a great leader. And that should play well in the next Trump White House. It will set the tone for the next Trump White House.

And if she has any say, as expected in the hiring of others there, she will likely make sure that they have the same DNA and will try to keep the chaos out of this next White House. He also said that Donald Trump likes to surround himself with winners, and that likely played into this as well, because Susie Wiles is certainly a winner. She has a stack of campaign victories here in Florida, and certainly the most recent presidential election and he likes that about her.

But Anderson, of course, keep in mind that Donald Trump in his first term went through four chiefs of staff. So although she is anti-chaos, it seems, we'll see how it plays this time around. Anderson?

COOPER: All right. Randi Kaye, thanks so much.

That's it for us. The news continues. I hope you have a great weekend. "The Source with Kaitlan Collins" starts now. See you on Monday.