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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump's Team of Loyalists Taking Shape as More Choices Revealed; Trump Taps Rep. Elise Stefanik for UN Ambassador. Elon Musk Has Been Seen At Mar-a-Lago Almost Every Single Day Since Trump Won Election; Trump Makes Recess Appointments Litmus Test In Senate Leadership Race; Jury Reaches Verdict In Delphi Murders Trial. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired November 11, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: ... rode their bikes to Tiananmen Square and we know how that ended with a massive government crackdown by the military. But it is shocking because the government initially rushed to promote this trend. They were excited to see students out there having fun, going to get those delicious soup dumplings. Yet, when it got too big, too popular we now have this.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes, it's absolutely fascinating. All right, thank you very much, Will Ripley, for that. And thanks to all of you as always. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:31]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, breaking news, the president-elect chooses a national security adviser and is tapping two hardliners to carry out mass deportations of undocumented migrants.
Also tonight, superstar tech-reporter, Kara Swisher on Elon Musk's outsized role at Mar-a-Lago right now and on the Trump transition. Her thoughts on what's in it for him and whether the bromance will last.
Plus, how this of a man on a bridge led to his arrest and now conviction in the murder of two teenage girls, one of whom recorded this video and helped catch her killer.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
We begin with the breaking news. The president-elect has asked Florida Congressman Mike Waltz to be his National Security adviser. Congressman Waltz is a decorated Green Beret, an Afghan combat vet who chairs the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Readiness.
Named earlier today, former New York Congressman Lee Zeldin to run the Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA. Candidate Trump campaigned against wind power and electric vehicles and promised to kill or cancel many EPA regulations. Now, the League of Conservation Voters which is an environmental advocacy group says that as a congressman, Zeldin supported what they considered pro-environment bills 14 percent of the time.
Over the weekend the president-elect named Tom Homan as borders czar. Homan served as acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the first Trump administration and was a strong supporter of the administration's family separation policy.
Earlier this year at a conservative conference in Washington he vowed that if chosen he would, "run the biggest deportation operation this country has ever seen." Regarding the possibility that some of those facing deportations might have children born in this country who are therefore American citizens. Here is what he recently told CBS News' Cecilia Vega.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CECILIA VEGA, CBS NEWS: Is there a way to carry out mass deportation without separating families?
TOM HOMAN, TRUMP "BORDER CZAR" PICK: Of course there is. Families can be deported together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Homan will be joined in the deportation effort by Stephen Miller, whom the president-elect is expected to name as one of his deputy chiefs-of-staff.
Miller was an architect of the first Trump administration's family separation policy. He also supported ending birthright citizenship which is enshrined in the 14th Amendment. And at last month's Madison Square Garden rally he was upfront about what would have been called his America First views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, FOUNDER, AMERICA FIRST LEGAL: Who is going to stand up and say the cartels are gone, the criminal migrants are gone, the gangs are gone, America is for Americans and Americans only.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Also today, the president-elect named Congresswoman Elise Stefanik to be his United Nations Ambassador. The congresswoman you will recall helped oust and then replaced Liz Cheney as Republican conference chair.
No doubt, more picks to come in the days ahead, not to mention plain jockeying for advantage in Mar-a-Lago. CNN's Kaitlan Collins is nearby with that that and the breaking news. Let's talk more about the president-elect's choice to be his National Security adviser.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is obviously a critical one, Anderson, given everything going on in the world. The National Security adviser's portfolio is often quite wide and they are dealing with whatever crisis arises at the time. Jake Sullivan, Biden's Natural Security adviser of course, has been dealing with Russia's war in Ukraine and now Israel's war in Gaza. And those are likely to be two crises that Mike Waltz is going to inherit, as Donald Trump's fifth National Security adviser.
Obviously, he'll follows a long line of the four that we saw Donald Trump have his first term in office, starting with Mike Flynn, and ending with Robert O'Brien. Obviously, two there in the middle, H.R. McMaster and John Bolton, that Trump had fallings out with, including John Bolton, who is now one of Donald Trump's biggest critics and did not vote for him in the 2024 election.
But Mike Waltz is a congressman from Florida, he is an ardent defender of Donald Trump, he's actually the first Green Beret to ever serve in Congress. So, he is bringing that experience from that, from the House Armed Services Committee that he chairs here with him in this position, and so that will be something that is critical, as we are watching all of this take place and as he is in this position.
I will say, he is someone who backed Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the election in 2020, but when you look at it from a foreign policy perspective, which is what he will be weighing in on from a West Wing office, with Donald Trump in office, he certainly has more of a Mike Pompeo sense of the world than maybe more of a JD Vance kind of America First policy.
So, that is obviously something that we are going to be watching closely as to which ideology wins out when Trump is actually in office.
COOPER: How much influence does Stephen Miller or is Stephen Miller expected to have as deputy chief-of-staff for policy particularly on immigration? He was obviously a key player in the first administration.
[20:05:12]
COLLINS: I would expect Stephen Miller to have a lot of influence in a second Trump term. He certainly had it the first time. He often minimized or downplayed his role and the advice that he gave to Trump. He was not someone who would really disagree with Trump in meetings on policy, but often would either speak to him in the Oval Office or pull him aside and make his views clear.
He did a lot of the speechwriting for Trump in his first term, so often, you know, what you would hear from Trump's mouth when he was speaking at rallies or White House events, those were Stephen Miller's words that he had put there.
So, they are very closely aligned on policy and from what I have heard, this time around, now that he will be deputy chief-of-staff in the White House, elevating him from the role he had last time, I would expect him to have a lot of say so, because he is someone who stuck by Donald Trump's side when a lot of people left after January 6th and after he had lost the 2020 election. He was someone who was there, often defending him on television, certainly traveling with him, and has remained closely aligned, and obviously as someone who is expected to be a very influential voice on the mass deportation pledge that Trump has promised this time around.
He is also someone, Anderson, with that family separation policy that got so much backlash for the Trump administration the last time around, he has still defended that policy, arguing instead that if it had only remained in place longer it would have worked.
COOPER: What is your sense of jockeying among Trump allies and Mar-a- Lago? Last time we talked, you were saying they were kind of everywhere, not just at Mar-a-Lago, but in hotels all around trying to get some FaceTime or face time with somebody who has FaceTime.
COLLINS: Yes, it was kind of a free-for-all, as it typically is with Trump around. It has been more streamlined, mostly during the day where Trump has been sitting down with his transition team and actually going through the names of candidates. But also, Trump is on the phone and he is seeing guests at Mar-a-Lago, he's having those interactions and it has been this moment where he seems to have decided on someone for one job and at the last minute changes it to another, or someone falls out of contention and then they are brought back into the fold.
So, keeping up with sources on this, it is a bit of a juggling act, just in the sense of even the people we are speaking to do not always know who is ahead or who is going to get the nod. Sometimes they are surprised by reporting that we have to go out on who gets the job.
And so, it is kind of very much still a jockeying sense behind-the- scenes. Some people might say, okay, well, that is just staffing, that is not important, but in a Trump White House, staffing is everything.
Certainly, this time around, it will be even more so. Because he said it was one of his biggest mistakes his first time around, Anderson.
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, thank you.
Be sure to stay tuned for "The Source" at the top of the next hour. Kaitlan's guest is going to be Brandon Judd, former president of the National Border Patrol Council, which represents roughly 17,000 Border Patrol agents and staff.
Joining us now, CNN political commentator Ana Navarro, journalist and "Lift Our Voices" co-founder, Gretchen Carlson and Matt Mowers who served in the first Trump administration.
Gretchen, I'm not sure how many people remember Stephen Miller from the first Trump administration, but he has certainly been a central figure in immigration policy.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST : Yes, and also one of the things that Kaitlan, I'm sure knows but didn't mention was he was the architect of the 2017 Muslim travel ban, as well which was also controversial. But to her point, we saw this as well with Susie Wiles who he named
chief-of-staff. These are people who have stuck with him through thick and thin, and especially in those dark days in 2020, when he lost the election and a lot of people left his side.
I think what is very important about Stephen Miller is that he has never gone astray from his strong stance on immigration. So, I think, with these picks, as well as Tom Homan, the former acting director of ICE, I think that Trump is going full force ahead with these mass deportations.
The other night you asked, how is that going to happen? You know, we are getting more information on that now. The military may build detention centers to house these immigrants. Stephen Miller was on the record as saying that they might put all of these immigrants on empty land in Texas near the border.
They are going to no doubt use the National Guard to help with these efforts and they will also penalize the sanctuary cities, who may not help them in their states to be able to do this by taking away federal funding. There is something called the Byrne Justice Assistance Grant, gives $250 million annually to state and local governments, they might say, no more of that. if you don't help us with this mass deportation.
COOPER: Ana, nobody can say Trump did not say that is what they wanted to do. There were signs at the Republican convention, not just hand scrawled signs, printed out signs that they passed out, saying master deportations.
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This remind me of 2016, when he ran promising that he would appoint conservative Supreme Court Justices, and he did. This time he ran promising mass deportations and from these appointments, it seems like he is going to deliver.
So, anybody that thought this would be a more unifying, softer, furrier, warmer Trump who would perhaps want a second chance to be president of all Americans is waking up this morning and realizing that that's not going to happen.
[20:10:26]
I think there is a lot of fear, certainly a lot of fear among the immigrant community, a lot of fear amongst DREAMers, and I think their fear is well-founded.
And look, mass deportations means a lot more than just criminals, right? I don't know anybody who is against immigrants who have come here and committed crimes and by committing crimes I don't mean crossing the border, by committing crimes, like I mean crimes that would be crimes regardless whether they were committed by US citizens or immigrants. I don't know anybody who is against those people being deported.
But if you're talking about mass deportations and the things they are describing, it is going to go much deeper. It is going to mean your friends and your colleagues and your relatives, and the children that go to school with your children.
It is going to mean people who do essential work in the United States that nobody else wants to work. Backbreaking work, disgusting work, like you know, killing chickens. Disgusting work, like working in a dairy farm. That is what it is going to mean. And I don't know what that means for the economy, but folks are about to find out.
COOPER: Matt, Stephen Miller was talking about -- building up to a million people deported a year. A lot of folks have looked at and said that look, that goes way beyond just people to Ana's point who have committed a crime, once they're here in the country.
Do you think that is -- that had a lot of blowback last time, but do you think people are more accepting of it this time?
MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: I do, and look, I have known Stephen Miller for a long time and even though he disagree with him on policy well now, he's a smart guy, he knows this subject matter, he can get into the minutiae of knowing how to enact these policies and there is no surprise that Donald Trump would choose him along with Tom Homan to implement what he was talking about on the campaign trail.
And look, they have talked about, and President Trump has even said, that they would prioritize those who are drug dealers or those who have committed crimes, those who are may be connected to criminal gang activity. But to your question, Anderson, Americans are living with the real world impact every single day with over that fact that there are over, I believe, it is 15 million illegal immigrants who have crossed the border and they have seen the impact in their own communities.
Whether it's crowding of schools, whether it's pulling the welfare net, and Social Security and health benefits and the rest of it, hospitals and emergency rooms being crowded, and so Americans, because they have been living it so much and not just on the border anymore.
Look, a lot of folks were criticizing Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott for what they did in saying that if this is going to be a Texas and Florida challenge, it has to be an American challenge and start putting those who crossed the border illegally on buses to New York City, well, those folks in New York City are now seeing the impact as well with overcrowding of schools, and stretches on global benefits.
So yes, I do think the American people are saying, this is in large part why Donald Trump got elected.
COOPER: I just want to play what Stephen Miller said about mass deportations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, "THE INGRAHAM ANGLE": When will the deportations begin?
MILLER: As President Trump said, they begin on Inauguration Day. As soon as he takes the oath of office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: To Matt's point, the sending, the busing of people who had crossed over by some of the border states by some of the governors there and some of the mayors, that was roundly criticized by a lot of Democrats and others.
It was very effective in terms of, you know, Matt saying, waking up people in a lot of other states of what the states on the border or facing, whether you think it is waking up to or just people seeing this and not liking it in their city, it certainly had a huge impact.
NAVARRO: It was, it was very effective. Apparently, was also accusing Haitians of eating dogs and cats, and accusing the Venezuelans of having taken over Aurora, Colorado, and all of the things that he said were very effective in driving fear into the hearts of Americans, and then driving them to the polls because of fear.
The problem is, Anderson, people talk about the cost of immigration, and they don't want to talk about the benefit of immigration. If you think there are a lot of people who say they voted because of the price of eggs. If you think eggs are expensive now, go do a raid in a poultry farms in Gainesville, Georgia, or Arkansas, and then we will talk about the price of eggs.
[20:15:02]
COOPER: All right, we have to take a quick break. Coming up next, two big names that have been explicitly ruled out of the next administration. Also, Elon Musk hanging out at Mar-a-Lago by the President-elect's side and weighing in on hirings and who knows what else.
We will talk to tech reporter, Kara Swisher who was known and reported on Musk for years.
And later, conviction of the murder of two Indiana girls and the video which played a part that one of the girls recorded before her killing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Again, our breaking news tonight, the choice of Mike Waltz to be the president-elect Trump's next National Security adviser. It comes after many interesting sidebars including this dis-invitation over the weekend on social media, quoting from the president-elect now: "I will not be inviting former Ambassador Nikki Haley, or former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, to join the Trump administration, which is currently in formation. I very much enjoyed and appreciated working with them previously and would like to thank them for their service to our country."
[20:20:15]
Back now with the panel. I mean, it is so interesting the idea that, you know, there would have been an olive branch. Nikki Haley volunteered to campaign for him, but she committed the ultimate sin which was running against him in the primary.
CARLSON: And saying the things that she said about him. Telling the truths about him during that time.
Look, that was quintessential Trump putting that post out. It made it seem like Mike Pompeo and Nikki Haley had asked for a position in the administration.
Maybe probably not. Look, Nikki Haley is going to run for president again in 2028, I believe that is why she was forced to endorse Trump, because she needs his MAGA base if she wants to have a future political career, and not surprised at all, neither of them need to serve this administration.
NAVARRO: Okay, Gretchen, Gretchen, Gretchen. She was not forced to do anything. She is a grown ass woman. She chose to do this for her political ambitions.
CARLSON: Because she wants to be president. That's right for her political ambitions.
NAVARRO: So, Kamala Harris lost an election. Nikki Haley has lost every modicum of dignity. Because, after first criticizing him, then she took it back, then she ran against him, then she endorsed him, then she practically begged him to let her campaign with him, and now, he is saying, "Bye, Felicia." I mean, it truly is, I find it incredibly embarrassing, a woman who had such a bright future, was one of the rising stars in the Republican Party.
But I think what Trump is making evident, through this -- that tweet is that he wants loyalty, 100 percent loyalty from everybody he appoints, and that he wants MAGA people, not neocons, not people who are considered foreign policy hawks, which I think both Pompeo and Nikki Haley and Marco Rubio --
COOPER: Matt, what do you think of Lee Zeldin being named the EPA administrator?
MOWERS: Well, look, I think it's a good choice. Certainly, I mean of 2016 and the transition was kind of like a shotgun wedding, this one has had a long-term engagement. None of the people that he is choosing are strangers. These are folks that Donald Trump knows. He has known Lee Zeldin for a long time. He thinks highly of him. I've seen them campaign together. He calls him The Great Lee Zeldin. I'm not surprised that Congressman Zeldin ended up in the administration.
And I think it actually speaks to the other nominations and other appointments that he has already made. These are all people, who while you can disagree with on policy are eminently qualified for these positions, right? There is no one here who does not pass the litmus test for a pedigree, but they also happen to be people that Donald Trump trusts.
And you need that, I don't care what administration it is, if the president of the United States does not have trust in his Cabinet, they cannot function effectively. And because of the nature of the transition last time, he did not have that relationship with his Cabinet secretaries.
It is not that folks cannot push back. I have heard plenty of stories and seen it firsthand when someone disagrees with Donald Trump, as long as it is done in a way which is constructive, he usually receives it pretty well. But at the end of the day he is the president of the United States, he gets to make the decision and the Cabinet implements that.
NAVARRO: And also a big difference is that this year, everybody that he has named so far has been in government in one shape or another, so, they come with a level of experience and knowing how to do things that, you know, in 2016 he had a bunch of rich people who had never been in government. This is a completely different --
COOPER: Speaking of rich people, he has Elon Musk now. Musk wrote on X about Elise Stefanik getting the nod for UN Ambassador. He wrote, "Elise is awesome but it might be too dicey to lose her from the House, at least for now."
I am going to talk to Kara Swisher more about Musk. It is fascinating to me that he is weighing in on kind of a granular level, publicly, about this, about Rick Scott in Florida.
CARLSON: We said this the other night on this show, I think he is going to be the most influential adviser to Donald Trump. It depends on how long they last together, because they both have huge egos, but with regard to Elise Stefanik, look, she was a moderate Republican when she was first elected 10 years ago.
COOPER: She was not a pro-Trump Republican.
CARLSON: She was not, and then she became hard MAGA in the last four years. She has been one of his biggest vocal defenders, but I think she made her mark for the ambassador job at the UN when she was so incredibly forceful with those college presidents who came to testify before the House Committee about the campus protests, about the Israeli-Gaza War.
Two of those presidents resigned after they were questioned in part by at least Elise Stefanik. She has also been a very staunch critic of the UN, so it will be very interesting to see her, I think in that role.
NAVARRO: It is interesting to think though that Kamala Harris was promising a Republican in the Cabinet and Donald Trump is imposing litmus test on loyalty to him, and loyalty to the ideology, for lack of a better term that he espouses.
COOPER: Matt.
[20:25:20]
MOWERS: I'll just say really quick if I could answer that. I think every president expects most of their Cabinet to be pretty loyal to them and what the American people voted for. So, it's really not all that different than what most presidents ask of their Cabinet members. I'll say one thing on Elon Musk too, you know, this actually I think this is a good thing for Donald Trump. He is bringing in advisers who are from outside, and will keep private sector advisers.
I mean, look, Elon Musk has now been relied on by NASA to get astronauts out to space, to be able to actually run a number of the functions that the US government has been unable to do. We are now seeing Elon Musk is stepping up with Starlink in Ukraine.
And so, I think this is actually a good thing. It shows outside ideas and ultimately despite the fact that yes, everyone, so far, has government experience, you need to keep some outside perspective in order to actually deliver on the mandate he was voted for.
NAVARRO: It has been reported that Melania is not coming to the White House meeting on Wednesday, I wonder if Elon Musk is coming instead.
COOPER: Matt Mower, Ana Navarro, Gretchen Carlson, thanks so much, appreciated.
Up next, how strong is the political alliance between Elon Musk and the president-elect.
Tech journalist, Kara Swisher joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:46]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Newly released video we want to show you now of Elon Musk at Mar-a-Lago on election night, his family mixing with Trump's family.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We have to get Elon with his boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
TRUMP: That gorgeous perfect boy.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: The video was released today by one of the President-elect's granddaughters on her video blog. And on Twitter, Kai Trump posted this picture of her with Musk and his child. She writes, "Elon achieving uncle status".
As our Kaitlan Collins reported earlier, multiple sources tell CNN that Musk has been at Mar-a-Lago every day since Trump won, weighing in on appointments like Elise Stefanik, dining with Trump and on calls with at least two world leaders. I'm joined now by long time tech journalist Kara Swisher, who's interviewed Musk many times and reported on him for years. She's also co-host of the Pivot podcast.
So Kara, by most accounts, Elon Musk has been spending quite a lot of time at Mar-a-Lago. He seems to be camped out there --
KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
COOPER: -- since President-elect Trump won. What do you make of their post-election alliance?
SWISHER: It's feels like that movie with Richard Dreyfuss and Bill Murray. I think it's called "Where's Bob" or "What's Bob", or he's not leaving. He's come as a guest for the weekend and is not leaving for the election. He came as a guest for the election.
COOPER: You've said you don't expect this alliance to end well. Why not?
SWISHER: Well, you know, I think the problem is we have two very narcissistic people who like being dominant and so there can be only one like they say in Highlander and that would be President-elect Donald Trump versus Elon Musk, even if he's the world's richest man.
COOPER: I mean, what is in this for Musk? Is it -- I mean, obviously, there's the attention which he seems to like. There's -- but there's also government contracts. I mean, his business relies a lot on the U.S. government.
SWISHER: Yes. Yes. He already had those. I mean, I think it's, you know, $15 billion or some number, and of course the government stepped in to save Tesla when it was in trouble by giving it a loan. And so he's long, long standing.
And I remember when he got the first space contract, he called me because he was delighted that he was sort of beating up on the old guard, like the Lockheeds and everybody else and the Boeings. And so he was thrilled to be innovative.
And I think that's exciting. That's the exciting part of Elon Musk. The not so exciting part is this feels like crony capitalism, right? That he's like hanging out at the manor with the boss and then he'll get extras for it. And so I think a lot of people are worried including people who compete with him as he's gotten this definitive advantage that seems a little strange.
COOPER: Well, I mean, you bring up people compete with him. I was thinking about Jeff Bezos and, you know, Sam Altman and people over at OpenAI which I guess --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- they've had a falling out. I don't quite know --
SWISHER: Very big. COOPER: -- the current status of their relationship But what does it mean for them?
SWISHER: You know, it's certain status is complicated, but that's not good. It's not good. He's attacked and sued OpenAI, obviously, and made all kinds of accusations against Sam Altman. So if you're OpenAI, you've got to be worried.
If you're Reid Hoffman, who was a big backer of Kamala Harris, you have to be worried. You don't know what they could do, right? And I think that the uncertainty is the problem, but you certainly have to, you know, you have to cozy up to the Trump administration because this is an administration that operates in a very transactional way.
And so Elon understands that. He also wants some influence for his various ideas about reforming the government, which I think he'll run into a buzzsaw of more difficulty than in just bossing people around wandering.
And he has a tendency to wander into a company and then kick all the trash cans and scare people, right? That's his thing. But I don't think it's particularly helpful when it comes to government because you can't blow up rockets every day. You can't do that.
COOPER: And Musk obviously owns X, formerly Twitter. Trump owns Truth Social. There's --
SWISHER: Well --
COOPER: -- talk about, you know, some sort of --
SWISHER: Emerging them.
COOPER: -- emerging, is that -- do you think that's well (ph)?
SWISHER: Well, it would be an interesting thing. First of all, Truth Social has no business to speak of whatsoever. I think my podcast makes seven to 10 times more than they do like, and they're not profitable. They're losing subscribers. And the same thing with Twitter.
I mean, evaluation on that has been brought down rather considerably, but he's not using it as a business. He's using it as an influence and propaganda vehicle. That's what he's -- that's why he bought it and that's what he's using it for. So it hardly matters what he paid for it because he's so rich.
And so, I think, you know, merging would be interesting and then taking it public and it being kind of a meme stock.
[20:35:03]
I mean, you could take two really broken business models and put them together and still do well in the stock market. So that would give a, you know, a lot of money to Donald Trump. That's for sure. And Elon can monetize this thing. And he has all these fans and you can see it. They're not businesses, though. Just be clear, Anderson. They're terrible, terrible businesses.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, do you have any sense of why Elon Musk has gone down this like conspiracy rabbit hole? I mean, he was -- you know, at some point a couple of weeks ago, he was posting things about QAnon, I mean, like --
SWISHER: Yes.
COOPER: -- promoting QAnon.
SWISHER: Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't know. I don't know.
Anderson, I talked to him all the -- I used to talk to him all the time until he blew up. And that's an experience I don't -- I share with many people like Reid Hoffman, Sam Altman, they were very close to him and then they weren't.
There's lots -- the Silicon Valley is littered with people like that. And then there's the enablers who stick with him because they, you know, they're going to get well, the getting is good. Why not attach yourself to this guy who's so rich?
I don't know. You know, we had a very unusual interview. We had many, I think, eight, six or eight or something like that. But one of the last ones, not the very last one, was during COVID. And I felt a shift in him that was rather significant. He was very obsessed with the deep state and the government.
California was keeping him from his thing and he had a very dramatic idea about his company, which at one point he told me if Tesla didn't survive, humanity was doomed. And I was like, OK, sure.
Like it was hard to like -- and I thought, is he kidding? Is he -- I didn't think he was kidding actually at the time. And so he got very attached to that idea that he was a savior.
COOPER: Kara Swisher, thank you so much.
SWISHER: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Coming up, a verdict in a murder trial that gained national attention after two teenage girls in Indiana were found dead in the woods in 2017. How the crucial video that you see, this video from a cell phone of one of the victims led to today's conviction.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:41:17]
COOPER: A fight over Senate confirmation of appointees has become an early test of Republican loyalty to the President-elect. The President-elect has demanded the successor to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell allow recess appointments. Now, this would let him bypass the Senate confirmation process and install anyone he wants in government, including those who may otherwise not be able to win support even in a Republican-led Senate.
On Sunday, he tweeted, "Any Republican senator seeking the coveted leadership position in the United States Senate must agree to recess appointments in the Senate. Without which, we will not be able to get people confirmed in a timely manner. Sometimes the votes can take two years or more. This is what they did four years ago and we cannot let it happen again. We need positions filled immediately."
Joining me now, CNN Anchor and Chief Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju. So Manu, this is kind of in the weeds for some people, but can you just explain what a recess appointment is. And if there's any precedent for what President-elect Trump is demanding?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's really not a precedent, especially if he tries to push through a whole slew of his nominees, and essentially bypass the building behind me, the United States Senate. Remember, the advise and consent, that is the constitutional authority given to the senators as they weigh the president's picks for his executive branch appointments.
And typically that process takes a lot of time. It requires a vetting, a background check, votes in the committee, votes on the Senate floor could take about a few minutes, a few months in order to go through that process.
What Donald Trump is suggesting here is simply get rid of that process altogether and allow for himself to use his own authority to install those appointees without the Senate having any votes at all. And in order to do that, he needs to get the Senate and the House to agree to go on these extended recesses.
Now, over since 2007, the Senate has not been going on those recesses because they've tried to deny presidents the ability to essentially bypass them, to probably take away power from the Senate. They said they don't want the presidents to do that.
But now Trump is telling the Senate Majority Leader candidates, saying, you need to do this because I have to get my nominees in place very quickly. And what we've seen from these candidates running to be one of the most powerful people in Washington to be the next Senate Majority Leader.
They're saying they're fine with that, Anderson, that they will defer power to the President-elect and allow him to do essentially what he wants in the confirmation process. So, we'll see how this ultimately pans out. And if there's any pushback from other Republican senators because they would be giving up significant amount of authority if they were simply to allow the president to put in place whoever he wants.
COOPER: So, I mean, it's just pretty incredible. It's -- so there would be no embarrassing hearings, essentially, where a candidate would be questioned by Democrats or Republicans about their past positions, about their qualifications. There would be none of that. Is that what you're saying?
RAJU: Yes. I mean, if that's exactly what he's saying. Now, it's not entirely clear if that's the extent to which he would go through this. And if that's exactly what he's saying is his tweet, which you just read, who didn't really get into the weeds of that, but potentially they could do that if he's talking about simply appointing someone through a recess appointment without going through that process.
And Anderson, but that is exactly what the vetting process is for. If they find red flags throughout the process, that's when senators will vote no. They will actually scuttle a nomination. And Anderson, also, Donald Trump will have at least 52 seats in the Senate, probably could have 53 depending on how the Pennsylvania Senate race turns out.
He's probably already going to get most of his nominees confirmed, except for maybe a few that may run into trip up in the confirmation process. But what he's saying here is that he doesn't want to go through any of that. Let's just get his nominees in place and let the Senate watch him do it.
COOPER: Manu Raju, thanks so much.
Joining me now our CNN Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten and two former Communications Director Ashley Etienne, who worked for Vice President Harris and Doug Heye, who was at the Republican National Committee.
[20:45:07]
Doug, what do you make of this? I mean, what's a rational explanation, I mean, a real explanation for why the President-elect would pre- emptively demand the Senate prepare to step aside and let him use these recess appointments? He says it's for speed. Is that all there is about this?
DOUG HEYE, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Oh, I think that's most of what it is. It's for speed because as this process does get slowed down, we learn more about a lot of these candidates and quite often they don't get confirmed because there are various problems that come up and we've seen that in Republican administration, Democratic administration.
I've worked in the United States Senate and have worked on hearings and confirmation processes and Supreme Court confirmations. It's a very long process, but also it depends on who you nominate. So we know that Marco Rubio is now looks to be the pick for the Secretary of State.
Yes, he would have a vetting process. It's probably going to be not as much of one, even though it's a very important position because he's a member of the club. He's a member of the Senate. They typically go through the last I think senator who didn't go through with Senator John Tower back in the 1980s or early 1990s, I believe, but so it's a very rare thing to do.
Look, Donald Trump wants as much power as he can get. That's not a surprise to anybody. But what we've seen in recent years, and this certainly predates Donald Trump, is the House and the Senate both have willingly ceded power from the legislative branch to the executive branch.
And I know, Anderson, when you start talking about this branch versus that branch, you get in political nerd talk very quickly, but this has been generations of this happening, and it's why the president, whether that's Donald Trump or Joe Biden or anybody else, has a lot more power today or come January 20th than they've had in the past. And that just continues and continues.
COOPER: Ashley, what do you make of this idea?
ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: No, I actually think it's quite smart what the -- what President Trump is suggesting because he, here, here's the real reality. Who -- no matter who becomes the Senate leader, they're going to have to strike a balance between one being loyal to Donald Trump and protecting the interests of the institution and the majority.
It's all about maintaining the majority. So how that leader does that is going to be interesting. So when we think about nominees, here's how it could play out to your point. You know, he could -- the benefit of the recess appointments is his nominees don't have to go through public scrutiny, media vetting, all of those things, but it also protects some of those outliers in the Senate that are going to be up for re-election.
Senator Collins, Murkowski and Cassidy, for example. Some of those members are going to be in very tough spots. So it might work to their advantage to not have to take some of these tough votes on some of these, you know, sort of contemptible people who Donald Trump could put in these cabinet secretary positions from white nationalists to conspiracy theories.
It protects them from having to take those tough votes and actually protects the Senate and Republican majority. So I think it's a smart move.
COOPER: Smart, but, I mean, doesn't -- I mean like things like ethics -- like ethical breaches, things like that? I mean --
ETIENNE: What does any of that matter post-Trump? You know what I mean. A Trump White House, none of that matters anymore.
COOPER: Wow.
ETIENNE: And especially not in the Senate where the Senate is going to be loyal to the president. They're going to put his interest before anyone else's, and even that of the country, and that has nothing to do with ethics. It has everything to do with what Donald Trump wants.
COOPER: Harry, in terms of core Trump supporters, what does the Senate look like for President-elect Trump?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, you know, Senate Republicans, right? You -- way you can see the core Senate support for him is, did they endorse him in the primary or not? You know, you go back to 2016. There was one Republican senator who endorsed Donald Trump.
That was Jeff Sessions, who eventually Donald Trump got tired of and got rid of. Compare it to this time around, right? Compare it to this time around, the 2024 primary. How many Republicans endorsed Trump during the primary season? North of 30.
The clear majority of Republicans did. If last time around Senate Republicans tolerated Donald Trump, this time around they L-O-V-E Y-O- U him. They love him. They're going to willing to let him do basically anything they want and what we're hearing tonight from Manu's reporting is exactly that.
COOPER: And given the GOP sweeping victories, are there many Republicans have to worry about aligning themselves too closely?
ENTEN: No. No, way, man. No way, man. You know, you go back again, make the comparison between the 2016 and 2024 primaries, back in the 2016 primary season. About 60 percent of Republican senators were from states that Donald Trump won during the primary season.
This time around, it's 100 percent. It's 100 percent. There's no problem with Republicans aligning themselves with Trump. And more than that, in terms of the general election, I think only Susan Collins is the one Republican from a state that Donald Trump won in the general election.
So no, Republican senators want to align themselves with Trump. They love them, and their voters love them.
COOPER: Ashely, do -- I mean, Republicans in the Senate, or for that matter, the House, there's no incentive to really push back on any incoming president on anything at this point. I mean --
ETIENNE: You're absolutely right.
[20:50:00]
I mean, that's why Democrats are so devastated and we're all mildly depressed, me included, is because the win in the victory on Tuesday was so sweeping that they sort of have cop launch to do whatever they want to do right now. And it's kind of a depressing state for us to be in and for the country to be in, in fact.
COOPER: All right. Well, I appreciate all of you've been with us. Thank you.
Still ahead at long last conviction in the double murder of two teen girls in Indiana. Their bodies found after they vanished during a hike. How cell phone video recorded by one of the teens helped convict her killer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:08] COOPER: More breaking news tonight, the New York Times is reporting that the President-elect is expected to name Senator Marco Rubio of Florida as his Secretary of State. The Times citing three people familiar with his thinking. The paper also reported Mr. Trump could still change his mind at the last minute, but appeared to have settled on Senator Rubio.
Well, more on this at the top of the next hour.
Now to Indiana and a verdict this afternoon and what became nationally known as the Delphi murder cases. Two teenage girls, just 13 and 14 year olds, were found dead in the woods in 2017 in their town. The case was cold for many years and then two years ago, this man was arrested.
Thanks in part to this cell phone video that was recorded by one of the teens who was murdered. He went on trial, was found guilty today of two counts of murder and two counts of felony murder. Randi Kaye has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): February 13th, 2017, two young girls go missing in Delphi, Indiana. 13-year-old Abigail "Abby" Williams and 14-year-old Liberty "Libby" German. They disappeared after going for a hike on the Monon High Bridge. The next day, a gruesome scene was discovered in the woods.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is considered double homicide investigation.
KAYE (voice-over): The girls' bodies were found partially covered by sticks less than a mile from the bridge where they were last seen. Their throats had been cut. On Libby's cell phone, investigators discovered video of a man, a major clue to who killed the girls.
Libby had just happened to catch him in the frame. The man became known as Bridge Guy because he was on the bridge at the time the girls disappeared. On the video, the man's muffled voice says, guys, down the hill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, down the hill.
KAYE (voice-over): A few days after the murders, Delphi resident Richard Allen put himself at the scene, telling police he'd been on the trail at the time and saw three girls. His name and his tip sat untouched for five years.
In 2022, a volunteer receptionist came across Allen's tip and noticed the time he said he was on the trail, matched the time the girls were thought to have disappeared. That quick thinking receptionist alerted the detective in charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We really thought, like, there wasn't going to be any answers.
KAYE (voice-over): The Carroll County Sheriff later said despite the tip, Allen got lost in the cracks. Turns out, he'd never left town. Allen was working at a local CVS pharmacy. Investigators matched an unused shell casing found at the scene to a gun at Allen's home and charged him with the girls' murders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today is not a day to celebrate, but the arrest of Richard M. Allen of Delphi on two counts of murder is sure a major step in leading to the conclusion of this long term and complex investigation.
KAYE (voice-over): In court, CNN affiliate WLFI reports that a pathologist testified about the girl's wounds, saying Abby's throat wound was seven inches long, and that it likely took five to 10 minutes for Libby to bleed to death, according to affiliate WRTV.
The girls had not been sexually assaulted, the expert said. An Indiana state police detective assigned to the case testified that Allen had confessed to the murders more than 60 times while in prison awaiting trial. At one point, he said a white van scared him off so he didn't sexually assault the girls.
A prison psychologist testified that in his cell, Allen had attempted to beat his head into the wall and was consuming his own feces. She noted he was suicidal. The defense zeroed in on that in an attempt to show Allen confessed only because he was losing his grip on reality in isolation.
In their closing argument, prosecutors noted that Libby German had always said she wanted to help police solve crimes. In the end, with that cell phone video of Bridge Guy, she helped solve her own.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: That's so awful. What comes next?
KAYE (on-camera): Well, Anderson, Richard Allen will be sentenced on December 20th, and he's facing up to 130 years behind bars. But still, even as that verdict was read, our affiliate reports that he sat there motionless.
But in terms of the evidence, Anderson, there was a lot of testimony about those 60 confessions that he gave while he was in prison awaiting trial. And the jury actually got to hear some of those confessions, and that was pretty powerful.
And there was also this one eyewitness who testified that she had seen a man on the trails, on the bridge, and she said he was muddy and bloody, and that is something that seemed to play well with the jury as well, Anderson.
COOPER: It's incredible to me that they had this, you know, this account, and it was a receptionist who was, you know, going over this case, who discovered it.
KAYE (on-camera): Yes, it sat cold for five years and he had put himself in the middle of this case. As we said, he went to the police and he told them that he was on the trail. So -- COOPER: Yes.
KAYE (on-camera): -- they would look at anybody in any investigation, anyone who comes forward, they're going to look at.
COOPER: Yes. Randi Kaye, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
That's it for us. The news continues. I'll see you tomorrow. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
