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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Gaetz Resigns from House After Trump Taps Him for Attorney General; Interview with Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-CT); Trump Taps Matt Gaetz as Attorney General, Faced House Ethics Probe Until Resigning Today; Trump Appoints Two Vocal Immigration Hardliners After Promising Mass Deportation on Day One; Trump Picks Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence; Missing Wisconsin Kayaker Likely Faked His Own Death as Per Sheriff. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired November 13, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: One senior military official telling me today that it's not a serious choice, another top former Pentagon official highlighting Hegseth's lack of any executive experience or working in Defense policy.
Erin, you have to remember that this is a massive bureaucracy. The Defense Department is the biggest employer in the country with a global presence of some three million personnel.
At the same time, assuming that Hegseth is confirmed, that military official told me, "He is the president's choice and we're going to have to make it work." -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Alex, thank you very much and thanks to all of you for joining us. Anderson starts now.
[20:00:38]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the president-elect names Congressman Matt Gaetz to be his attorney general. He is already well known to the Justice Department which has once investigated him and to the House Ethics Committee which until moments ago still was.
Also tonight, what so many of the nominees have in common mainly tied to Fox News is frequent guests or hosts, Geraldo Rivera joins me to talk about some of the nominees.
And, what happened to the husband and father reported missing while kayaking in a Wisconsin Lake in August? His body was never found. Now, a sheriff says he may have staged his disappearance and is urging the missing man to come forward.
Good evening, thanks for joining us.
We begin tonight with the remarkable fact that the next attorney general of the United States if President-elect Trump has his way with someone until tonight facing an ethics probe. He is Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz whom the president-elect named late today. And the word was applies because within the last hour, we learned Gaetz has now resigned from Congress which ends a House Ethics Committee investigation into him looking into allegations that he may have and these are the committee's own words, I quote, "Engaged in sexual misconduct and illicit drug use, accepted improper gifts to spend special privileges and favors to individuals with whom he had a personal relationship and sought to obstruct government investigations of his conduct."
He denies the allegations. He was also investigated by the Justice Department, the one he might soon be in charge of concerning sex crimes allegations which he also denies. The DOJ ultimately decided not to pursue criminal charges against him.
Now, this is who the president-elect who himself is about to see two federal cases against him go away chose to be the nation's top law enforcement official. Here's some of the reaction at least from one Democratic senator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Matt Gaetz is dangerously unqualified. This is going to be a red-alert moment for American democracy.
Matt Gaetz is being nominated for one reason and one reason only because he will implement Donald Trump's transition of the Department of Justice from an agency that stands up for all of us to an agency that is simply an arm of the White House designed to persecute and prosecute Trump's political enemies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Senate Republicans meantime were not of one voice on the appointment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Reaction to Matt Gaetz as AG.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Yes, I don't know yet. I'd think about that.
RAJU: Do you have concerns about it?
GRAHAM: We'll see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, not exactly taking a stand.
A former member of the committee Republican Chuck Grassley had no answer when asked about Gaetz by reporters. He just stood there in silence. John Cornyn, a former judge said "I'm still trying to absorb all of this." Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana said, when asked, merely said Happy Thanksgiving.
Senator Lisa Murkowski when asked said that Gaetz is an "unserious candidate." Adding, "If I wanted to make a joke, maybe I would say no, I'm waiting for George Santos to be named."
Others Senate Republicans even those who publicly clashed with Congressman Gaetz over the years were more sanguine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I completely trust President Trump's decision making on this one, but at the same time he's got to come to Congress and sell himself. There is a lot -- to the Senate and sell himself. There is a lot of questions that are going to be out there, he has got to answer those questions and hopefully he's able to answer the questions right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, that's Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma today. It's the same senator who once said this about Congressman Gaetz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MULLIN: He was accused of sleeping with an under-aged girl. There's a reason why no one in the conference came and defended him because we had all seen the videos he was showing on the House floor that all of us had walked away of the girls that he had slept with.
He bragged about how he would crush ED medicine and chase it with an energy drink so he could go all night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So, let's just show what he said now about Gaetz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MULLIN: I completely trust President Trump's decision making on this one, but at the same time he's got to come to Congress and sell himself -- or to the Senate and sell himself. There are lots of questions that are going to be out there. He has got to answer those questions and hopefully he's able to answer the questions right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right. Now, the president-elect's pick for attorney general, allegations or not, investigations or not, it all may be moot either because Republican senators will simply bend to the new president who after all helped them regained control of the chamber or the president-elect may try to, if he can, skip the confirmation process all together, maybe made him an acting official, if he can figure out a way to that. Something which he's talked about. [20:05:13]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's easier to make moves when they are acting.
CBS NEWS REPORTER: So, you are going to shake up?
TRUMP: Some, and some not. Some are doing a fantastic job. Really, I like acting because I can move so quickly, it gives me more flexibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was him talking about acting secretaries back or heads of departments back in 2019.
Either way confirmed or not, if the president-elect wants to make Matt Gaetz attorney general, he very likely can or as Elon Musk said today on social media, "The hammer of justice is coming."
The president-elect also picked former Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard to be the Director of National Intelligence, she's an Iraq war veteran who has in the past expressed views sympathetic to Russia and Syria, and it's only Wednesday, so there's two more days to the weekend.
"The Source's" Kaitlan Collins has been talking to her sources about all this, starts us off tonight.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Four more years, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, I'm just -- short time horizons just to get through the week. How much of a surprise is Matt Gaetz? I mean, I think I know, it's quite a surprise.
COLLINS: In a world where people are used to being surprised by their boss and Donald Trump and basically everyone in his orbit kind of operates that on a daily basis, certainly those who have been around him for four years, or eight years, Anderson. This one was even a huge surprise to people who have been working on the transition.
I've been in Palm Beach, I just got back this morning and I've been covering it closely and talking to a lot of people who have been involved in it. This is not a name that had come up for almost anyone in any of the discussions or interviews or talks that they have been having about who was going to head the Justice Department? Obviously, one of Trump's biggest priorities, one that he's been thinking about for months now before he was even re-elected, he had been thinking about who he would put in this position.
So, this one was a shock to essentially all of them and so that is really the big question tonight of what this looks like going forward. But, Anderson, it was about 24 hours ago that I had heard from sources that Trump was unhappy with basically everyone that had been brought to him as a potential candidate for attorney general.
He had interviewed many them. One of the interviews was described as disastrous to me, and so essentially he was wish casting about for who he was going to put in this position. And the two qualifications that he wanted which was someone who is fiercely loyal to him and someone who would be compliant with what he wants to happen at the Justice Department and that is what he got in Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz and made that announcement today.
But of all of the decisions that he's made about his Cabinet, Kristi Noem was made pretty quickly, to the surprise of a lot of people, this one maybe even half that kind of a timeline.
COOPER: Well, I mean, there were questions being raised yesterday about Kristi Noem's qualifications to be head of Homeland Security. I mean, now, in the sunlight of Matt Gaetz's nomination, that seems like a rational choice.
Do we know if the president-elect is concerned about getting Matt Gaetz confirmed?
COLLINS: It's not clear. I was asking people about this, because, yes, this is a 53-seat Republican Majority in the Senate, it should be pretty easy for anyone Donald Trump picks to get confirmed in that kind of an environment. It's not the same kind of Republican-led Senate that it was when he took office even in 2016.
I mean, this is a Senate that is very much in his making. A lot of these are his hand-picked people that ran in races that he backed that are now going to be voting on this Cabinet nominees once he is formally in office.
And so, that's really the question tonight. There are still some voices out there. People like Lisa Murkowski or Bill Cassidy of Louisiana who seem to have a lot of skepticism not just when asked about this pick for attorney general, but also Pete Hegseth to run the Department of Defense.
So that's really going to be the question here because essentially as a Republican senator, is it viable to buck the Republican president on his pick, and if you're triaging and picking just one of them to break with him on, which one do they pick? That is going to be a real question that is facing Senate Republicans sooner rather than later.
But also, I would note, you know, you saw all the Senate leadership fight that happened today with John Thune coming out on top. It's quite a day to be John Thune and to know you are now the Senate Republican Majority Leader that is going to be dealing and advising your members on all of these questions.
COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins, thank you.
Joining us is Senator Richard Blumenthal, he is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee which is expected to run point on Matt Gaetz's confirmation hearing if there is one. Senator Blumenthal is also a former US attorney and a former attorney general of Connecticut. Senator Blumenthal, what is your reaction to the prospect of Matt Gaetz becoming attorney general?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): The only reason for Matt Gaetz's nomination is he's a Trump puppet. His loyalty to Trump is the only credible reason that he has been proposed. He will weaponize the Department of Justice for retribution, Donald Trump's words. He is highly dangerous as a potential National Security risk.
Remember, Anderson, as you well know, the Department of Justice is in charge of prosecuting espionage, terrorism, sabotage, all kinds of National Security threats, and I am hopeful that Republicans will take this major test of their integrity, their devotion to country above politics and stand up to Donald Trump. But I am very clear-eyed, based on their very un-reassuring history that they're going to cave, unfortunately, to Donald Trump's will.
[20:10:35]
COOPER: So you think he could pass Senate confirmation?
BLUMENTHAL: He could pass, if Republicans fail to vote the way many of them are saying their consciences would dictate. There are a lot of furrowed brows and wringing of hands, but we've seen this movie before. In fact, we've been through it with the Mueller investigation, with the impeachments, two of them, procedures and Republicans have failed to live up to their conscience and conviction and put devotion to country ahead of politics.
COOPER: The president-elect has already said he wants his Senate allies to push through his nominees even if necessary through a recess appointment, which many people may not know about, sort of in the weeds, but they would essentially bypass the confirmation process, what, if anything, can Democrats do about that, given that you'll be in the minority?
BLUMENTHAL: I think he's going to at least begin the confirmation process. We have tools to expose his shortcomings, a Senate hearing will happen. We're not going to rely just on the FBI vetting that we may see. We'll do our own factual investigation. We'll do tough questioning and try to elevate this issue to the American public so they can see the security risk and the potential retribution is on Donald Trump and ultimately on Republican colleagues to stop.
COOPER: But this is the American public who voted Donald Trump into office and he was talking about all this stuff in the election. It's not as if, you know, it's a surprising choice in its zaniness, but it's not particularly surprising given all the things he has said during the actual campaign. I mean, nobody should be surprised that he wants retribution or would set up the Justice Department for that, I don't think, would they?
BLUMENTHAL: You know, that's a really important point. No one should be surprised by his defiance of the rule of law and the norms of our democracy, but it's one thing for him to talk about during the campaign, it is another for it to happen in real life.
And Republicans have a majority now. It's on them to stop this degradation and potential danger to the country and we're going to fight hard to bring this issue to the American people and show that this unserious candidate could have very serious consequences in terms of going after political enemies and silencing protests and all kinds of National Security threat that we need to be very careful to avoid in our democracy.
COOPER: Senator Blumenthal, thanks very much.
Perspective from journalist and Lift Our Voices co-founder, Gretchen Carlson; also, former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin; senior and political commentators Alyssa Farah Griffin and Scott Jennings; and former Pennsylvania Congressman, Charlie Dent, one- time chairman of the House Ethics Committee.
Jeff Toobin, surprising, not surprising --
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It is surprising, but I think -- what I'm reminded of today is eight years ago when President- elect Trump picked Jeff Sessions to be his attorney general, very conservative, very distinguished, a senator, he'd been a senator for a long time, he'd been the US attorney, but he committed one sin that was unforgivable which was he recused himself from the Russia investigation, which was absolutely the proper thing to do, deferred the case to his deputy, Rod Rosenstein, who appointed Robert Mueller. And that investigation was an affliction for Trump.
He wants an attorney general who will under no circumstances ever turn over anything to a special prosecutor and do his bidding and protect Trump whose engagement with the legal system has been a constant of his entire life.
COOPER: Alyssa, were you surprised with this?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think, to your point, this is what he ran on. I think I thought he would have gone with a more subtle name, maybe somebody who is a loyalist, but not as polarizing as Matt Gaetz. But the question now is, does the Senate, the Senate Republicans in particular truly believe in its constitutional advising consent role?
I can think of about four Republican senators who I think would potentially stand up to this: a Todd Young, a Lisa Murkowski, a Susan Collins, a Bill Cassidy. There, I don't think is a single Republican senator who actually thinks that this is the right choice and a qualified choice and somebody of the moral character to be attorney general. The question is, is the political will there? Do they want to cross Donald Trump this early in time.
[20:15:20]
And if I could just -- say quickly, my really only running with Matt Gaetz, I don't know him personally was in the outer Oval Office when Donald Trump was president, he was about to walk in and meet with him. He was holding a folder and I said, what's in that folder, just so I'd see who is about to give to the president of the United States. It was conspiracy theories about Joe Scarborough murdering his intern and he presented it to Donald Trump, who then tweeted about it, causing duress to the family of this woman who died tragically and no involvement obviously of Joe Scarborough, that's the character and the judgment of this individual.
House Republicans know it, Senate Republicans know it, but will the political will be there?
COOPER: I mean, that's chilling if that guy is the guy who is going to be running the Department of Justice.
GRIFFIN: I mean, just a stunning lack of judgment, character and integrity.
GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST, CO-FOUNDER OF LIFT OUR VOICES: And I actually do know Matt Gaetz because I worked with him on my bipartisan legislation in passing two laws recently. But I think the biggest story of today is that Senator John Thune is now the Senate Majority leader. And why is that so important, because Rick Scott is not. That would have been all wheels off the rails with MAGA.
So now, that responsibility is on Senator Thune to lead the troops into making good decisions, up against recess appointments. Remember, Trump earlier this week said to all three candidates who wanted to be Senate Majority Leader, will you all agree to do recess appointments and they all said yes.
So will Senator Thune now backtrack on that with a Pete Hegseth up for Defense, with a Matt Gaetz up for attorney general.
The other interesting thing is the House Ethics Committee, two days away from releasing the report on Matt Gaetz, then he resigns tonight, so the big question in my mind tonight is will that Ethics Committee give that report to the Senate before the confirmation?
TOOBIN: The point about recess appointments is that if that's the way it proceeds there is no confirmation hearing and the possible embarrassment of these nominees who don't really know a lot about their subject won't have to be subject to questioning.
COOPER: Scott, I saw you on CNN earlier moments after the Gaetz news broke. Even you seemed surprised.
Do you think this is a smart choice?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, smart -- interesting question. I mean, I think based on what I've heard tonight, Gaetz starts out at a deficit in the Senate that would be probably difficult to overcome. It doesn't mean maybe a confirmation hearing could change some minds, but it just strikes me that this is an uphill climb to get confirmed, which then puts you in this recess appointment idea, which I also think, candidly, is going to be difficult for him to do, meaning the president-elect. So, I think everything he's announced which I don't really have a problem with anything that he's announced, this Gaetz thing strikes me as the most problematic, if you're looking at it from a political and legislative affairs matter. So I am really sort of shocked by it.
One question I have, and I haven't seen anyone answer it yet is, I read that Matt Gaetz resigned from the Congress effective today, but he resigned from this Congress. He just got elected to the next Congress, and I don't know exactly how that works. I mean, I assume because he just got elected to the next Congress. He is still entitled to show up and be sworn in January.
I've called a couple of people to find out how that would work, but to me --
COOPER: So, a rather unique situation.
JENNINGS: It is very unique because he has resigned from the current Congress having just gotten elected to the next one. So, I'm also wondering about how that might work.
COOPER: Yet again, Donald Trump makes history.
JENNINGS: Yes. Absolutely. There are lots of questions swirling. My general view is of the people that have been deemed controversial, I actually think Hegseth and Gabbard have a more than a fighting chance at being confirmed. Gaetz is the one who I would think starts under the line and is going to have a more problematic path if it advances that far.
COOPER: Congressman Dent, do you share Scott's belief that this might be too far for enough Senators -- Republican senators?
CHARLIE DENT, (R-PA) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Oh, goodness, yes. I mean, this is a gobsmackingly bad nomination. I mean, I would be less surprised, in the words of Chevy Chase if my face was stapled to the floor. I mean, this is really a bad nomination. I can't imagine any circumstance under which Matt Gaetz would be confirmed. I suspect, he will have -- Donald Trump will have to withdraw this nomination,
And by the way, to answer Scott's question if Gaetz resigned today and decided to be sworn in in the New Year, then the Ethics Committee could still release that report. They have the report and so, by the way, I'm sure that's the reason why he resigned. They are probably about to drop sanctions on him and these reports are pretty darn ugly.
COOPER: And because he resigned, they wouldn't release the report anyway.
DENT: The House loses jurisdiction over any member once that member is no longer serving. But I'm curious to see if the Ethics Committee might release it anyway, and I say that because this investigation was unusual and at the Ethics Committee, several months ago, announced what specifically they were investigating and not investigating about Matt Gaetz. They never talk about an ongoing investigation because he antagonized them. So, I am just curious to see if they might release it anyway. I don't think it's ever been done before, but this is kind of unprecedented.
[20:20:33]
COOPER: Scott.
JENNINGS: Anderson, one thing about this appointment and some of the other appointments, you know, Donald Trump feels -- he's feeling his oats. He's feeling powerful. He's feeling decisive.
COOPER: That's for sure.
JENNINGS: Yes, he doesn't feel like he owes anybody anything. He obviously doesn't feel like he needs to negotiate any of these things even with the Senate that has to confirm them. I mean, this is a guy who is feeling fully powerful as the president-elect and certainly within the Republican Party.
And so, if this is an attempt to provoke a showdown, who is going to actually run this party and will you let me do it? It's an -- it sets up a very, very interesting showdown over a very controversial subject matter.
Now, again, we'll see how this all plays out. I have the feeling, the sensation that something else is afoot here, but that to me is Trump is signaling to Washington, DC, I'm not running again and I'm beholden to no one. I'm not beholden to the Congress, I'm not beholden to the Republican Party, and so, I'm going to do what I want to do and I'm not negotiating my hard core positions with anybody.
COOPER: Yes, I want to hear what you think is afoot, actually, but we're going to take a short break and we're going to continue with this conversation because this is pretty big.
Later, a former Trump friend, Geraldo Rivera join us, his take on the recent appointees quite a few of them are former Fox colleagues and guests.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:25:46]
COOPER: Tonight's breaking news, eclipsed a photo-op which now feels like it happened three decades ago. The president-elect returning to the White House for the first time since he left under a cloud and in a huff nearly four years ago.
His meeting with President Biden described by White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre as "very cordial, very gracious and substantive," I almost she was almost going to say very demure, but she didn't.
Again, kind of ancient history, now that the president elect has picked one of his provocative defenders, Matt Gaetz to be the next attorney general of the United States. We should note that CNN has just confirmed what we were talking about before the break, which is at the House Ethics Committee was due to meet this week to vote on releasing report about Gaetz.
Back now with the panel. This also -- there's another theory which you do want to talk about.
GRIFFIN: Okay, my theory is this. Listen, I actually think Gaetz will get confirmed in the Senate even Tommy Tuberville seems stunned by it. Some of the most conservative MAGA senators.
COOPER: So, you think there are senators who would actually stand up.
GRIFFIN: I think there is a potential that his nomination could be blocked, but listen, what's happening, we are not talking about other controversial picks who may not be as glaring as Matt Gaetz. But Tulsi Gabbard, there are a lot of folks in the intelligence community who are horrified by this.
This is someone who has espoused Russian propaganda before, she's been an Assad apologist, traveled to Syria and basically tried to whitewash his crimes against Syrians. That's very concerning to a lot of people that she would literally be overseeing the entire intel apparatus.
And then, Pete Hegseth, a veteran, I'm grateful for his service, a nice guy, I've met him and this is not a person prepared to lead a three million-person workforce at the Pentagon. And I would just say this, Donald Trump does have a mandate. He was elected, you know, Scott talks about this but if he's trying to actually ruffle feathers and get change at the Pentagon, you don't send someone in who has never stepped foot in the Pentagon, never worked there.
He is going to be out maneuvered by top brass, the joint chiefs are going to run the place and it's just -- this is not a qualified person for this role.
COOPER: Is it possible that this, the Gaetz announcement was made to deflect and make these others seem more palatable?
CARLSON: Potentially, but look, I think Trump is just going hard core with his loyalists. Going more on Pete Hegseth, look, he enthusiastically supported and embraced Trump's baseless claims about the 2020 election, he defended the rioters saying they were just fighting for freedom, he says that he is going to deny women combat roles in the military. So I guess we're really going back to the dark ages now.
Even his own colleagues at Fox seem to be incredibly surprised, Steve Doocy who I used to sit next to on "Fox & Friends" before I was hooted for doing nothing wrong, he actually said, is this real -- this morning. So, I think what would have been more real is, Trump was going to put him in charge of Veteran's Affairs in 2016.
COOPER: Which is a much smaller --
GRIFFIN: Which is a much smaller, and by the way he's done a ton for veterans and he is a decorated veteran. That would have been plausible.
TOOBIN: I have a theory, Donald Trump nominated Matt Gaetz to be attorney general because he wants Matt Gaetz to be attorney general. And I just think he plays his games to win, and we'll see what the Senate does, but I don't think there is any sophisticated strategy involving other candidates here. This is his candidate. He's going to do what the Justice Department what Trump has said he wants done at the Justice Department, and I think it's as simple as that.
COOPER: Scott, do you think moderate Senate Republicans are going to get onboard with some of the foreign policy positions Gabbard has taken? I mean, like Alyssa mentioned -- Russia and Syria.
JENNINGS: Yes I think, those are going to be hard questions that she has to answer in the confirmation hearings and there is a significant chunk at the Senate Republican conference that is just not going to have her world view on a lot of these issues.
Now, whether they're able to accept someone with a different world view and go ahead and to judge qualified and say -- well, the president deserves his staff and vote to confirm, that's an open question, but I do think her confirmation hearings are going to be more difficult. Not as difficult as Gaetz, but certainly a rocky ride.
On Hegseth, I have a different opinion. I think it's a perfectly fine choice. I think a lot of Republicans look at the way the Pentagon has been run for the last four years and they say are you happy with the results of the last four years given the disastrous Afghanistan pull out, the spy balloons that have fallen over the United States, the fact that we participated in building a Gaza aid pier that was a nothing more than a political PR stunt that cost $300 million and the life of a US soldier.
They look at these things and they say, hey, maybe it's time for an outsider to come in and put a set of fresh eyes on this.
Hegseth is a veteran, 20 years Iraq, Afghanistan, two bronze stars, Princeton, Harvard.
Look, you could do worse in my opinion than finding someone who has been as dedicated to this country as Pete has been. So, I have a different opinion on him than the rest of the panel, but again, he has to also show up and talk about his qualifications of management because it is largely a management position, but I'm just telling you, the Republican Party is not interested in doing the same old same old over at the Pentagon. They want to shake up and that's what Trump gave them.
[20:30:46]
COOPER: Congressman Dent, I mean, on Hegseth, obviously, the Pentagon is a huge bureaucracy which -- there's criticism of the size of it, the bloat of it. Is he ready for that sort of management and that sort of maneuvering in such an organization?
DENT: Well, I get -- look, I appreciate Mr. Hegseth's service to our country, but I remember serving with people like Bob Gates, who was the Secretary of Defense, and I remember Bill Cohen. These people were really very serious, substantive, experienced people. And I just -- look, the VA would've been a better place for Hegseth. The Pentagon is not the right place.
And if I could say one thing too about Tulsi Gabbard's appointment, look, she -- I served with her and she -- when I was Chairman of the Ethics Committee in January 2017, I just ended my term and she called me because she wanted to go to Syria, and I had to approve the travel. I couldn't approve it because I was no longer chairman. But my point is, they were going to try to use her as a propaganda tool. And I -- and she went anyway.
But it was -- I would've advised her not to. I was surprised she wanted to go, given what was going on. And I know she also opposed the assassination of Soleimani, which is one of Trump's big achievements while he was president, and I think she called it unlawful, maybe unconstitutional, an unconstitutional killing. So her worldview, I think, is not even in agreement with Donald Trump's view in many cases.
COOPER: There's also now, the outstanding question of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and where he may end up. There are people that have scoffed about the idea of him heading HHS.
DENT: But, I mean, if it is true that Trump is seriously considering recess appointments where none of these people have to be confirmed, then he can put them anywhere he wants. Whether he really -- this was sort of a last-minute marriage between Kennedy and Trump. The issues that Kennedy has talked about, especially about food is something that Trump has absolutely no interest in, the McDonald's connoisseur that he is, and whether he really wants to expend political capital on Kennedy's behalf is I think much more an open question than these other appointments.
COOPER: Yeah. Everyone thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Up next, want a job in the Trump Administration? There is one resume builder certain to get you noticed by the President-elect, a stint on Fox, it seems. Veteran journalist and former Fox Anchor Geraldo Rivera joins us next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:37:15]
COOPER: Matt Gaetz was once a frequent presence on the returning president's favorite TV news network, Fox News. Sometimes he shares with several of his fellow nominees, including DNI pick Tulsi Gabbard who's a Fox contributor, Pete Hegseth Trump's pick for Secretary of Defense. He was a co-host on the network's "Fox & Friends Weekend" for almost a decade. Mike Huckabee, his choice to be the U.S. Ambassador to Israel, is a former host obviously, on the network. And Tom Homan tapped as Border Czar on Sunday is a contributor. It's a practice that goes back to Trump's first term with contributors like John Bolton who also served in the administration.
Joining me now, Emmy and Peabody Award-winning journalist, Geraldo Rivera, who worked at Fox News for more than two decades.
GERALDO RIVERA, NEWSNATION CORRESPONDENT AT LARGE: Hey, Anderson.
COOPER: It's great to see you. What -- first of all, what do you make of the choice of Matt Gaetz for Attorney General?
RIVERA: I think it's a horrible choice. I think he's a real creep. I think that the House Ethics Committee, if he does indeed go through with this nomination, should release its report. He is accused credibly of sex trafficking a minor and obstruction of justice. Just, I can't believe that the president picked this guy who gives me the creeps just to look at him after knowing what he did. Ask Kevin McCarthy, the former house speaker, what he thinks.
COOPER: Yeah.
RIVERA: -- of Matt Gaetz. To have this guy releasing him in the Justice Department archives, files, is going to dig up his own cases, with confidential interviews, with purported victims. I just think it's a -- I don't understand why President Trump -- President-elect Trump would pick someone so absolutely obnoxious, that it casts appall over all of his other controversial, but I think, defensible choices.
COOPER: Gaetz obviously denies all those allegations against him, and the DOJ decided not to move forward with any charges. But I mean, I was trying to imagine what a lot of attorneys at the Department of Justice would do if, I mean, career people at the Department of Justice would do if Matt Gaetz ran the place. I mean, I assume there'd be a fair amount of resignations, but maybe that would be something Gaetz would like, because it would allow them to bring in more people, new people.
RIVERA: Well, I think that this is where the hammer of retribution and revenge will fall, Anderson. I think he will be on the Department of Justice. There's such resentment within the Trump camp for all of these prosecutions against him, Jack Smith and so forth. I think that this is where he's going to go in there and I disagree that there'll be resignations. I think that people love those jobs. They're careerists. They hang in and they've prosecuted these cases.
[20:40:00]
They feel righteous about it. But I think that he's going to go in there flailing around and I think that this would -- that people would be jumping out of the windows when they see this guy. And to your point about him not being charged on these cases, that's why I think the House Ethics Committee report is so critical. And he has now resigned from Congress. So the House Ethics Committee has lost jurisdiction over him. I think that's why he did it. He did it because the release of that document was imminent, within days.
So now, do we not get to see this report that the House Ethics Committee says is so incendiary? Now, this is going to be the Chief Law Enforcement Officer. I remember Bill Barr, I think, was the most important man in Washington during President Trump's first term. I believe that he held the whole administration together. It is a vital role. It's a political role plus a legal role. And now, you have this, probably the most controversial member, certainly the most controversial male member of the House of Representatives. And now, he's going to be the Attorney General, the president's lawyer, I just think that this is really a bad move by President-elect Trump. He got a mandate, but he didn't get a mandate to go creepy.
COOPER: Trump had said in the past, where's my Roy Cohn according to a number of reports, maybe he thinks this guy will be his Roy Cohn. The choice of Pete Hegseth, you know him obviously from Fox. He obviously has a long history of service to the country in the military, hasn't run an organization of this size and this complexity. What do you think of him? What do you think of this as a choice? And do you think, even if you like him personally, he's capable and will be successful running that organization?
RIVERA: I've spoken, from my years as a war correspondent, I have very good contacts in the military and I've spoken to the retired, very high-ranking officers with deep Pentagon and war-fighting experience, and they voiced misgivings about him running this 3 million strong department. So I get that. But I know Pete Hegseth, Major Pete Hegseth, a two-time awardee of the Bronze Star. This is a combat veteran who loves other veterans, who has a wonderful rapport with them and with military families.
I think it would be a very, very steep learning curve for Major Hegseth. But I think that if anyone can do it, he can do it. He's courageous. He's patriotic. He's smart. He's well educated. He cares deeply about it. We look at -- certainly, I look at him and I see a kid, but he is in his mid-40s. He is done a lot. He -- it was great being opposite him on the couch. We never agreed on very much. But, I think that he can do it.
And same with Tulsi Gabbard. I think that the Congresswoman can do it, another combat veteran. I think that she will also have a tough time learning all the DNI stuff with all those multiple agencies reporting and so forth. But I think that she's also a sincere person. Mike Huckabee, the new designated Ambassador to Israel, Mike believes that the Jews should get the whole of the holy land, that there shouldn't be a two-state solution.
And yet, I believe that he is such a sincere and honest person that I think that he will grow into that role as ambassador. These guys, Gabbard and Huckabee and Hegseth, that's one thing. Matt Gaetz is totally different, Anderson. Matt Gaetz is someone whose entire life goal has seemed to me to be disruptive, to be honorary and wild and crazy.
COOPER: Yeah.
RIVERA: I just -- I keep going back to the word creepy. And I think that that best describes him. And I hate to be so dogmatic about it, but I just don't see an upside at all, and I don't know why President Trump did it. COOPER: Geraldo Rivera, I appreciate your time. It's good to have you on. Thank you.
RIVERA: Thank you, Anderson. Thank you very much.
COOPER: Thanks, Geraldo. Coming up, another signal today the President-elect is intent on keeping his campaign promise about mass deportations, that as our Rosa Flores talks with two Hispanic families with mixed legal status and what Trump's return to the White House might mean for them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:48:38]
COOPER: Today, President-elect Trump made official what CNN has been reporting for several days, namely that Stephen Miller will join Tom Homan in taking the lead on the issue in the new administration on the mass deportations, fulfilling an often-mentioned campaign promise. Rosa Flores has more now on what this could mean for Hispanic families facing deportation, even those who supported the President-Elect.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How many of you are U.S. citizens? How many of you support Donald Trump? You're undocumented and you support Donald Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I support Donald Trump for the economy.
FLORES (voice-over): Two Hispanic families with mixed legal status in Houston with two different takes on President-elect Donald Trump's return to the White House. This is the Espinoza's (ph) first gathering since Trump's win.
FLORES: How many of you fear that deportation could impact your family?
FLORES (voice-over): Cesar Espinoza (ph), a husband and father, was a DACA recipient until this summer when he got a green card. His sister and brother-in-law are DACA recipients. His sister-in-Law is a green card holder, and the rest of his family here are U.S. citizens. Some who are not present are undocumented.
FLORES: You're a green card holder; your wife is a U.S. citizen. Why are you afraid of deportation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just became a green card holder after years of being in this country.
[20:50:00]
I don't think people understand the fear. It's a constant shadow hanging over our heads.
FLORES: What was your reaction to Donald Trump winning? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cried a lot. It was -- it was emotional. Have my family, like if they're going to be here or they're not going to be here. And how do you tell all of our kids, like my nephews, they're also our kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To tell people that this doesn't live in kids and children's mind and teenagers, in young adult's life is a lie.
FLORES (voice-over): Helacio Velazquez (ph) is an undocumented mechanic who has worked in Houston for 25 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh.
FLORES (voice-over): He plays in this park with his two U.S. citizen children, ages five and nine, and stands by Donald Trump.
FLORES: So you support Donald Trump because of the economy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the economy, yes.
FLORES: But you don't support the anti-immigrant rhetoric?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not support of the anti-immigrant action.
FLORES: Do you support his mass deportations?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It is not human.
FLORES: Are you afraid that you could be deported in this mass deportation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid.
FLORES (Voice-over): Espinoza (ph) runs a migrant advocacy group and says many people are afraid and have called him in tears.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think there's a heightened sense of fear.
FLORES: Explain why Latino men are going to Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats forget the promise when these guys are in the office in the Washington. The Latinos want a better nation.
FLORES (voice-over): Espinoza (ph) believes some of the Latino support for Trump was a vote against the prospect of the first black female president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's still a lot of machismo. There's still a lot of misogyny. And something that we need to say aloud is there's a lot of anti-blackness.
FLORES (voice-over): Velasquez (ph) says he hopes Trump finds compassion for immigrant fathers like him who are not criminals.
FLORES: If you get deported, would you regret your support to Donald Trump? He's saying that he wouldn't regret supporting Donald Trump.
So, you're really not thinking about yourself. You're thinking about your children and the future of your children?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I want the better for my children. FLORES (voice-over): Cesar (ph) says he feels guilty for bringing so much uncertainty to his family.
FLORES: What's it like for you to see your wife go through this and the emotions that she's going through?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I apologize to her a lot. We fell in love right away and we got married almost right away because when you know, you know.
FLORES (voice-over): We asked Velasquez (ph) and Espinoza (ph) the same final question.
FLORES: Do you have a plan in case you get deported?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I respect that decision. I leave the country. I'm not coming back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a plan. We've talked about it openly with our family.
FLORES (voice-over): Turns out these two Hispanic families with two different takes on Trump's win have the same plan if they get deported. They would go to Mexico as a family.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLORES (on camera): As for how organizations across this country are preparing for possible deportations, first of all, nationally, the ACLU and LULAC, they're preparing for the legal fight to challenge some of these policies in court. And then there's organizations, for example, in California, who are calling for immigration reform. And in New York, organizations who are switching their mission a little to focus on the possibility of mass deportation.
And Anderson, I talked to some organizations here in Texas on the border who say that if the federal government is actually going to deport a lot of migrants in this massive way, that they should do so with dignity. Anderson?
COOPER: Rosa Flores, appreciate it. Thank you. Coming up next, a Wisconsin man vanishes while kayaking in a lake, which is only the beginning of a very strange story, next.
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[20:58:00]
COOPER: Tonight, authorities in Wisconsin believe a husband and dad who was reported missing while kayaking back in August is actually alive and likely staged his disappearance and fled overseas. Local sheriff is urging the missing man to come forward. More on that from CNN's Whitney Wild.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Green Lake, Wisconsin, in the middle of August, Sheriff's deputies began searching for missing kayaker Ryan Borgwardt. The husband and father of three had been on a fishing trip about an hour north of his home and never returned. They found his capsized kayak, car and other belongings, his set of keys, wallet, license, even his fishing rod and tackle box turned up, but no Borgwardt.
SHERIFF MARK PODOLL, GREEN LAKE COUNTY, WISCONSIN: We continued our search throughout and it continued through 54 days.
WILD (voice-over): Keith Cormican is a diver for the non-profit organization. Bruce's Legacy. They assist in recovery operations for drowning accidents.
KEITH CORMICAN, DIRECTOR/DIVER, BRUCE'S LEGACY: I had been on the water for actually 23 days. They had about probably eight to 10 days of just reviewing the data.
WILD (voice-over): Local and state authorities, along with volunteers, also helped in the search using high-end sonar equipment, drones, even cadaver dogs. But Borgwardt's body never turned up. So the Green Lake County Sheriff's Department pursued a different theory. Borgwardt faked his own death and fled the U.S.
Sheriff Mark Podoll says a digital forensic search of Borgwardt's laptop revealed that he replaced the hard drive and cleared his browser history on the day of the disappearance, and there's more. Investigators found that the 44-year-old moved funds to a foreign bank, changed his email, communicated with a woman in Uzbekistan, purchased airline cards, and took out a $375,000 life insurance policy in January.
The Sheriff's Office says deputies later discovered that Canadian officials ran Borgwardt's passport the day after he was reported missing.
PODOLL: Due to these discoveries of the new evidence, we were sure that Ryan was not in our lake.
WILD (voice-over): Podoll says they don't know who the woman in Uzbekistan is, but they believe Borgwardt is likely in Eastern Europe. His department is also investigating if any crimes were committed.
