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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump's Choice To Lead DEA Withdraws Days After Pick Announced; Hegseth Faces Tough Road To Confirmation; South Korea's President Declares Martial Law Then Un-Declares It After Six Hours; Stowaway Flew From New York To Pars Last Week; Sources: Kash Patel, Trump's FBI Pick, Has Been Targeted In An Iranian Hack; New York City Suburbs Debates Decision To Remove Fluoride From Drinking Water. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired December 03, 2024 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now, there are still a lot of questions and Hannah Kobayashi's family is still looking for answers. They released a statement that reads in part, "Our family remains hopeful that Hannah is safe," and urges everyone to continue the search. "The search is far from over and we are committed to doing everything possible to bring her home safely."
They also say "don't fall for speculative conclusions." I mentioned, lot of conspiracies around this one -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: I'm sure, the least of course, a deeply unsettling story. Thank you very much, Nick. And, thanks so much to all of you as always. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:40]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, breaking news on the president-elect's pick for Defense secretary, now facing growing Republican skepticism and growing allegations of a drinking problem.
Also tonight, what just happened in South Korea as the country's president declares martial law, then un-declares martial law, leaving a bulwark of democracy looking like anything but.
Plus, with all the security at airports, the latest on how one woman stowed away on a US flight and made it to Paris without a ticket including video of the very moment the stowaway's ruse was uncovered mid-air.
Good evening. Thanks for joining us. Before even getting to the new difficulties facing Defense secretary or Defense secretary designate, I should say, Pete Hegseth's nomination, there is breaking news on the end for another top pick, Chad Chronister named to head the Drug Enforcement Administration, said late today he is bowing out. The Hillsborough County, Florida sheriff said on social media, "As the gravity of this very important responsibility set in, I've concluded that I must respectfully withdraw from consideration."
Just last week, he called it, "the honor of a lifetime" to be nominated. Just a week and a half ago, another Floridian, obviously Matt Gaetz, backed out of the running to be attorney general. And now, after several damaging reports on his alleged drinking problem, alleged sexist behavior, and alleged financial mismanagement in a job related to veterans, Pete Hegseth's Pentagon nomination is drawing more doubts from the very same Republican senators who support a Republican nominee would ordinarily take for granted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Some of these articles are very disturbing. He, you know, obviously has a chance to defend himself here. But, you know, some of this stuff is going to be difficult. Time will tell. I like Pete, I've known him for a very, very long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Senator Joni Ernst, a Republican who serves on the Armed Services Committee, says she'll have what she called a frank and thorough discussion with Hegseth when she meets with him. Republican Kevin Cramer of North Dakota called the drinking allegations, "concerning" but said he was leaning yes on the nomination, telling CNN's Manu Raju, "I'm interested in who Pete Hegseth is today and who he is going forward."
Susan Collins of Maine had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): As a I've repeatedly said to you, I believe that we need an FBI background check to evaluate the allegations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, to that point, late today, we learned that the transition team has signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the Department of Justice, permitting just that which in turn was followed by word that Hegseth will be appearing tomorrow in defense of his nomination on Fox.
CNN's Kaitlan Collins starts us off tonight with that not far from Mar-a-Lago. So, what more can you tell us about the fate of his nomination?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: It seems to be getting more difficult by the day, Anderson. Now, that doesn't mean that he's going to be pulled and we haven't heard anything like that yet. But when you're hearing from people who are Trump's closest allies on Capitol Hill like Lindsey Graham, as you were there talking about the difficulties that they believe that Pete Hegseth is going to be facing when that confirmation hearing does happen, if it happens, that's a sign of really just the trouble and it's certainly not lost on people at Mar-a-Lago.
I've been speaking to them about this nomination, Anderson, and how they're feeling about it. And even they have raised concerns as more has continued to come out necessarily because of the pile up and the questions of what this means for Republican senators given they can only afford to lose three of them and plenty of them are sounding skeptical on Capitol Hill today, more so, even than they were about two weeks ago when all of this first started and there were questions about what this was going to look like.
And so, I think that's the thing to watch, a sign that the Trump team is taking seriously the concerns that you heard from those Republican senators is that they are sending Pete Hegseth out to do media tomorrow.
I'm told that he's expected to do a Fox News interview likely tomorrow is what I'm hearing. And that's notable, not because obviously, you know, one, he did used to work there, but two, none of the other Cabinet picks are out doing interviews. They have been all told to hold off from doing any media, focus on their confirmation hearings and then once those happen, then they can go out on television.
And so, its notable that they're sending him out to try to alleviate some of the concerns that you're hearing from those officials. And, Anderson, I will say, obviously, there have been the questions of sexual assault allegations that Pete Hegseth has denied, but also the other reports that are coming out regarding Pete Hegseth's drinking. I've covered him for a long time. He abstains from drinking, never has, and he looks critically at people who do drink heavily. That has always been a factor of his.
And so, that is something that I heard from several people inside Trump's orbit today, is how he's going to receive those reports.
[20:05:06]
COOPER: The president-elect's transition team, as we mentioned signed an agreement with the Justice Department to allow background checks for his nominees. Have you heard anything from the Trump team about whether they think Hegseth could actually pass a traditional FBI background check?
COLLINS: I've heard from some people that they think, actually, this could potentially be helpful to Pete Hegseth. Maybe, it could help clear up the concerns from some of those Republican senators. But also, there's a question of whether or not his name is actually one of the ones submitted by the Trump team to the FBI to conduct that background check, because what this means by signing this agreement that typically incoming presidents sign when they win the election to have the DOJ go ahead and start carrying out these background checks, is that they'll have them submit these names that they are going to nominate to Capitol Hill to the FBI.
Now, that does not mean they have to submit all of them. There's no legal requirement actually for Trump to do so. And I also think, Anderson, one other question that is still raised tonight is whether Trump trusts those background checks. He obviously has a very hostile attitude toward the FBI. That's part of why it's been nearly a month since he won the election and they're just now signing this Memorandum of Understanding. And so, even if an FBI background check came back, it doesn't necessarily imperil someone's nomination in Trump's eyes because he doesn't trust that, he's overridden concerns before for security clearances. He did so with Jared Kushner, his son-in-law the first time around.
And so, I think that's really the question here of what that looks like now that they have signed this agreement, they will move forward. But whether or not they submit all the names is something that still remains to be seen.
COOPER: And Trump also announced his choice for deputy Defense secretary today as we mentioned, his choice for DEA administrator withdrew from consideration. What more about this number two at the Pentagon?
COLLINS: Anderson, I'm sorry, I think I lost your audio. I'm not sure what your question was there as we're hearing it.
COOPER: Sorry, we're short on time. We will move on. Kaitlan, we'll see you at the top of the hour at "The Source" at 9:00 PM.
Joining us right now is CNN senior political commentator David Urban. We should mention that David serves on the board and as an advisor to two companies that Trump deputy Defense picked, Stephen Feinberg's Cerberus Capital Management. His investments in Feinberg was named for the job late today.
Also with us, CNN political commentator Van Jones and journalist and "Lift Our Voices" co-founder Gretchen Carlson.
Gretchen, at this point, does it seem like Pete Hegseth will survive this process?
GRETCHEN CARLSON, CO-FOUNDER, "LIFT OUR VOICES": Look, I think the pivotal moment today was Senator Lindsey Graham coming out and questioning this aside from what you played, he also said that he wants to make sure that every young woman who joins the military feels respected.
And the reason that jumped out at me is because I've worked with Senator Lindsey Graham on three bipartisan bills, two of which passed into law and they were both about sexual misconduct. So, the idea that Senator Graham would not be taking pause right now is not surprising to me at all.
COOPER: Van, I mean, you heard what Graham said. Do you think this will survive?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, it's hard to know. But, I mean, you got to think about what is this job? If you're running one of the biggest departments, the biggest bureaucracies, the most powerful in the world, the Department of Defense, you've either got to be able to be excellent on the inside, an unbelievable administrator, able to deal with moving chess pieces all around the world or you've got to be a great public face. You've got to be able to go out there and recruit people and stand up.
He's got two black eyes on that public face, and he can't run anything but his mouth.
COOPER: So, right, there is a very damaging article in "The New Yorker," a very well-researched about allegations made at two veterans organizations, nonprofits, very small, one of them was a very small organization that he essentially, according to the reporting, was essentially forced out of --
JONES: Exactly.
COOPER: -- financial mismanagement.
JONES: Right, so he's not a great public face at this point, and he can't run anything but his mouth and the small things he had to run, he ran badly. So, you start wondering why is this guy in charge?
COOPER: David, I mean, how much longer do you think the president- elect will be okay with this kind of drip-drip-drip of bad headlines about this Pete Hegseth?
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, listen, Anderson, I don't suspect that President Trump will ever cut Pete free. I think it's going to be up to Pete to determine at one point if and when he decides to, that he doesn't have the votes. And I think, look, I think it's very smart for him to go on Fox tomorrow and explain himself. He is kind of fighting this one hand tied behind his back.
A lot of these reports are, you know, not sourced they have no -- they're anonymous sources and, and kind of whispers down the lane. And so, I think that its smart for him to go out and give his side of the story and try to win some of these senators back.
He's doing it, you know, senator, by senator, he needs to get a good whip count and know what it looks like there in the Senate and he's going to have to answer a lot of tough questions when he gets to, you know, the Armed Services Committee.
I think that, you know, Kaitlan was talking about the FBI background checks. They may not mean much to the folks at Mar-a-Lago, but they do mean a lot to the senators. And I think they paid a great deal of attention to that. And I think that that will provide a great deal of weight.
So, I think that if he does get FBI background check and vetted, it's not there's no pass or fail. They just presents a bunch of -- they bring a big file up and give it to each senator to read, and they take it with you when they leave. I think that's important. And I think it's important for Pete to get a hearing to be able to stand on his own two feet and answer those questions.
[20:10:25]
You know, to Van's point, we had a current secretary of Defense was missing. He wasn't at work for seven days, and the entire Department of Defense didn't even know it. The president didn't know it. The current secretary of Defense oversaw the most -- one of the most regrettable military withdrawals from Afghanistan, from any country, but from Afghanistan. And so, you know, I don't know that the, you know, what people say, what are his requirements?
He's got the faith of the president. He's got the ear of the president. He's got the confidence of the president. I think that's a lot.
COOPER: David, does it concern you, I mean, as somebody who obviously you have a military background, you know, very big on veterans causes and organizations that two of the organizations he worked with that he according to the reporting was essentially pushed out of?
URBAN: So, Anderson, I think he needs to answer those questions. I would like to hear the answers, but I'm not just going to I'm not just going to take, you know, at faith from a report in "The New Yorker" and say, well, that's it. That's the like the tablets that were handed down by God to Moses. Right? I want to hear Pete's side of the story. Let him explain it.
COOPER: Okay, Margaret Hoover is on the air with -- she was on, worked at one of these organizations and spoke publicly.
CARLSON: But, there's so many allegations. I mean, it's not just about financial mismanagement at these two organizations. It's the sexual misconduct claims. It's the alcohol alleged problems. I mean it just keeps coming out. I just can't believe that this would ever go to a hearing.
And the thing I've been thinking about today, aside from why we even teach our kids to have morals and values, is that I mean, why would Pete Hegseth put himself in this situation? And the only answer that I can come up with is that when you work at Fox, it's kind of like a bubble. And maybe he just felt like none of this would ever come out and that Trump really didn't have any repercussions for some of the alleged sexual misconduct things that he had in his past as well.
COOPER: Yes and the reporting by Jane Mayer, Van, you know, a whistleblower report that claims when Hegseth was president of "Concerned Veterans For America," he was, "repeatedly intoxicated while acting in his official capacity to the point of needing to be carried out of the organizations events."
As Gretchen was saying, there are other accusations of sexual impropriety, misconduct, and also treatment of women at these organizations. You know, being drunk in a bar chanting about killing Muslims, the list is a long one.
JONES: Yes. I just don't get it. I mean, the Republican Party is supposedly a party that wants America to be strong, wants America to be Great, wants to put America first. I don't think any of the people who voted for Donald Trump, who run small businesses, would hire this guy to be a floor room manager. He's just not coming across as the type of person that you would want in any position of authority and we'll just have to see. I do think that maybe we're in an age where a personal valor doesn't matter in the military anymore, but I don't think we're there yet.
CARLSON: I'm going to tell you who should be the pick and that is Senator Joni Ernst. And she's having reservations, right now. And here's why, she's a veteran. She's a sexual assault survivor, and she has a history of voting against people who have sexual misconduct allegations against them. She would be a slam dunk victory for President Trump.
And I've heard through the grapevine that she's number two on the list.
COOPER: David, what does it take to run the Department of Defense? I mean, it's obviously a huge bureaucratic organization. I mean, is it traditionally somebody who has management experience? What do you think it takes?
URBAN: Look so, Anderson, it's up to the United States Senate to determine what it takes, right. That's the advice and consent role. The secretary has to provide sound judgment, has to provide the president with good advice. The secretary has the deputy secretary, has lots of undersecretaries, deputy assistant secretaries. So, it is running a huge organization. But you manage, you know, small people who end up running a huge organization.
Look, Pete's going to have to explain a lot of things and President Trump's going to have to determine how much political capital he wants to expend here. You know, as any politician, this president, has a limited amount of political capital to burn. And you've got a lot of nominees -- you've got a lot of nominees you want to get through. And at some point you're going to make a judgment, and Pete Hegseth is going to count heads, and you're going to see whether or not the votes are there, whether to get to even a hearings.
So, I think that, you know, the senate will ultimately decide as they always do. I think the FBI background checks are important here to give the senators a lot of confidence. I think, Pete Hegseth is going to want to hear from him tomorrow and see what he has to say.
JONES: But you know, but even the proposed deputy secretary is worrisome. I mean, it's not like a billionaire war profiteer. That's kind of like a party guy as well. So, I mean, I don't understand who's going to be running the department.
CARLSON: Yes, but that's petty compared to the other stuff that we're facing.
COOPER: All right, Van Jones, Gretchen Carlson, David Urban, thank you.
[20:15:21]
Coming up next, a live report and new developments within the last few minutes from South Korea, where the sudden declaration of martial law shocked the world. And the sudden end to it, leaves more questions than answers about one of America's leading allies.
And later, how a stowaway from New York to Paris got on board, got caught and why she couldn't stay on the flight that was supposed to take her back. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:03]
COOPER: The South Korean president's chief-of-staff and more than 10 of his senior secretaries have just submitted their resignations, according to his office, the president himself has not yet resigned. The breaking news again, just moments old, follows hard on the heels of a remarkable and remarkably brief flirtation with martial law today.
It ended six hours after it began. The president, bowing to pressure from lawmakers and mass protests in the streets. South Korea, as you may know, became a democracy in the late 1980s after decades under military rule.
CNN's Mike Valerio is in Seoul for us tonight. What is going on there right now? And is there any more clarity about why the president did this?
MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, right now were in the middle of a protest with a couple hundred people steps away from the National Assembly, one of the main centers of the drama that unfolded over the past couple of hours.
We have one of the new late edition newspapers that's come out with a headline that encapsulates the feeling that so many people have right now. It says in Korean, "President Yoon's Martial Law: A Betrayal of the People" and that's exactly what so many people here, myriad citizens of Seoul and surrounding area, are saying right now.
In terms of the why question, Anderson, why this happened and why we got here, the best guess and best analysis that we can marshal right now is that the president of South Korea felt as though, he was backed into a corner facing myriad scandals, many scandals here domestically with a popularity, a favorability rating under, I repeat, under 20 percent. And in his words, a Parliament, you know, a couple of yards behind me that wasn't able to play a part in furthering his domestic agenda.
So, a huge miscalculation on his part to take control, to take power, take control of the situation and everybody would agree here, a terrible way, Anderson.
COOPER: Fascinating, Mike Valerio, appreciate it. Joining us -- stay with us also, Mike, CNN's national security analyst and former deputy director of national intelligence Beth Sanner joins us also, William Cohen, who served as Defense Secretary during the Clinton administration.
Secretary Cohen, I'm just trying to put this in a global perspective for us. How dangerous is political instability in South Korea at a time when North Korea is testing new missiles with longer range? And obviously, China getting increasingly more aggressive against Taiwan?
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER CLINTON DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well, it's pretty serious, Anderson. As you pointed out, just the threat of the North Koreans over the years, but especially in recent times when they're firing off more and more missiles and getting greater and greater range of those missiles. So with the possibility of striking the United States with a nuclear weapon, so that's dangerous enough.
But it poses a danger to the entire region. Japan is certainly going to be concerned about this, as other countries in the region. So, instability is not good and I think this reflects an act of impulsiveness. I think he acted impulsively and you're supposed to have a plan. If you had plan A to impose martial law, what's plan B? There's no plan B, and that's why it's -- President Biden was not called on it. His own Parliament wasn't called to let them know what was going to take place. His own party didn't know about it, so it had to be an act on his part coming late at night impulsively, not thinking it through. And he's paying a consequence for it now.
COOPER: Yes, Beth, to that point the announcement clearly, appears to have called the Biden administration, the intelligence community, by surprise, if this was just an impromptu decision, it's a pretty crazy impromptu decision to make. If you haven't really planned out the institution of martial law in a country that, you know, has not had martial law in decades.
BETH SANNER, CNN NATIONAL SECRETARY ANALYST: Yes, note to self don't text after 11:00 PM.
COOPER: Yes, it's like a late night decision, of all the late night bad late night decisions people have made, this seems like a huge one.
SANNER: It seems like a huge one, and it absolutely will be. There is no way in the world that he is going to get out of this politically alive.
You know, his chief-of-staff resigned, all senior staff has resigned. His party has demanded his resignation. So, now it's just a matter of how long does this take? And then we're going to see this period of 60 days from when he declares, because I don't think we're going to have to go through the impeachment process. So he's going to resign, and then there'll be elections within 60 days of that.
And so, that's going to put us at, elections in South Korea, one of our most important allies. What has been an absolute bulwark for us working with Japan in this trilateral arrangement on that peninsula and in the region and that, you know, we don't know how that's going to turn out.
The reason that Yoon was so important to us is because he was a willing player in that, and the next person may or may not be. So, there's a lot at stake.
COOPER: Mike, the entire South Korean Parliament voted unanimously to undo this martial law declaration. What are the consequences for South Korea's president?
[20:25:07]
VALERIO: Well, you know, he's lost so many of his allies and there is a fear -- I think it's fair to say, Anderson, just talking to all of these people, South Korea is so proud of how far the country has come since 1980, since the last time there was martial law spread throughout the country.
We now have K-Pop, K-cinema, you know, South power is so strong that South Korea exerts and I can tell you there are people from grandmothers and students and everyone in between who's gathered here, they are really afraid and concerned that this is a blemish on South Korea's reputation.
The world now knows that things are incredibly unstable here and there are allies of President Yoon Suk Yeol who are concerned, and people in the opposing party who are concerned that North Korea, perhaps could see this moment as a moment of weakness and do something that, you know, we don't even want to go into that realm of possibility.
But so there is serious concern about what this has done to the reputation of South Korea and the ripple effects that this means going forward.
COOPER: Secretary Cohen, obviously, there are tens of thousands of US Troops stationed in South Korea. I know a spokesman for the Pentagon has said that and I'm quoting right now, "There has been essentially no impact on US Forces." What impact do you think continued instability there could have on US Forces in the region or to the, as you know, we talked about this, this kind of trilateral alliance?
COHEN: Yes, I assume the Korean Forces will be enhancing their security alert and go on to a higher level of status of warning. I think the American troops will remain calm but very vigilant, watching as things unfold. So, I think, we'll keep an eye on North Korea. We'll keep an eye on what is taking place in the region.
But I want to add just one comment of optimism here this is democracy that worked. The Korean people have said we like freedom. We like democracy. We don't want anyone to take that away from us.
And so, what the president tried to do is imposing martial law, become a dictator as such, because he was frustrated that he couldn't get his budget through. He couldn't get his Cabinet approved or not impeached.
So, democracy in that sense, worked with the people, spoke out and said, no. You'll work with a system democracy, it can be messy but dictatorships are a menace. And that's the choice they have made here.
So, I think that sends a signal to all of our allies in the region that, yes, we have a problem here for the time being. I think it will be corrected. In the meantime, we'll be on alert and I think the region will be relatively safe.
If the North Koreans start to do something and move in an adversarial way, we'll be ready for that. So, I think it will calm down over time. And as Beth has said, 60 days will pass. They'll have a new election and democracy will be in action again.
COOPER: Beth, what do you think about North Korea, I mean, Kim Jong-un often employs hostile rhetoric, obviously against South Korea and the US, do you think they will try to do something using this as an opportunity?
SANNER: I do, I think that they see, you know, Korea watchers have been worried for some months that Kim would take advantage of the US transition and to do something, you know, actually kinetic, actually an attack on something like an island or something like that in around the transition to put a real dilemma on Trump's plate at the beginning of his administration.
Now, I think that there actually is even more likelihood that that will happen, but I'm not sure it will happen before the South Korean elections because in a way the North Koreans aren't dumb, if they do something before the election, it actually could encourage South Korean voters to gravitate more to the conservative party rather than to the progressives who are more accommodating to the North Koreans.
So, were looking at a window. I think, in early in the Trump administration, where we really have to be on our toes and in alert because Kim is definitely gunning to make things difficult.
COOPER: Yes, Beth Sanner, Mike Valerio, William Cohen, thanks so much.
Coming up next, an update on the woman who allegedly stowed away in a Delta Air Lines flight to Paris out of New York. How she got on this is hard to believe, and the airline removed her from a scheduled return flight earlier today. We'll have the details on when she might get sent back to the US.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:58]
COOPER: The Russian national accused of stowing away on a Delta Airlines flight to Paris out of New York last week remains in France. She is believed to have evaded multiple security checkpoints and boarded the plane with no valid travel documents or even a ticket.
The 57-year-old woman was expected to return to the U.S. earlier today. An airport official tells CNN she boarded a flight but was removed by Delta. And that was not the first attempt to send her back.
Polo Sandoval has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help him.
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is video taken on Saturday, the first time authorities tried returning the 57-year-old Russian national to the United States. A passenger's cell phone video captured the woman causing a disturbance before the flight took off from Paris.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help me here. I don't want to go to the United States.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): She was removed from the New York bound flight recalls Gary Treichler who was sitting right across the aisle.
GARY TREICHLER, PASSENGER: What I saw was basically this lady that was progressively getting more and more irate and raising her voice louder and louder and was ultimately restrained with handcuffs and yellow twist ties and held down by three individuals, stewardess, and a lady that represented Delta security.
[20:35:09]
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Delta Airlines not commenting about its decision to kick her off today's flight or elaborating on the initial security breach. In a previous statement, a spokesperson for the airline wrote in part, "Delta is conducting an exhaustive investigation of what may have occurred."
TSA says before stowing away on this flight last week, the woman slipped past TSA officers at JFK checking boarding passes. They had she (ph) and her carry-on bags were screened, but that she somehow bypassed I.D. verification at the gate.
A source familiar with the incident said she evaded detection in flight because the plane wasn't full, though passengers previously told CNN she hid by moving between lavatories. The next attempt to fly her to New York is planned for tomorrow, according to that Paris airport official, who adds French security personnel will be escorting her.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: Polo Sandoval joins me now. So where has the woman been held in Paris and what do we know about her?
SANDOVAL (on-camera): Well, Anderson, until she's brought back here to New York, she will continue to be held where she's been for the last week, really, which is especially designated section there at Paris's Charles de Gaulle Airport, specifically reserved for people who do not meet requirements to enter France.
In fact, by at least one account, this woman does not meet the entrance requirements to enter Europe altogether. In fact, we have learned recently that she had recently petitioned for asylum in France but had been denied, Anderson. So clearly there's either something or someone that's essentially drawing her to France. What that is, that's still unclear tonight.
COOPER: Polo Sandoval, thanks so much.
Among the outstanding questions in this bizarre saga is how this stowaway managed to sneak past multiple security checkpoints at JFK and board a flight without a ticket in the first place. I want to get some perspective now from John Miller, CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst.
Do you have any idea how she was able to get -- I mean, there's so many layers of getting through security.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So investigators have gone through the video and, you know, if there's next to an -- next to a casino the place with the most video cameras is going to be an airport especially at the security checkpoint.
So, what they see is they pick her up, trailing a flight crew down that special lane that flight crews go through their screening in. But as she approaches the place where she has to show her airline identification, which of course she doesn't have, she breaks off from the flight crew, not a Delta crew, from another airline.
And there's a gap there where there's a stanchion that divides their area from the regular screening area, and she goes through that gap, or under a stanchion and then goes through the regular airport security screening. So she hasn't presented a ticket at the normal passenger entrance.
COOPER: Yes.
MILLER: She hasn't presented one at the airline one, but she's gone --
COOPER: Right.
MILLER: -- through the security. When she gets to the plane. Now, she's in Delta's territory, she seems to -- looking at the video, get in the middle of a group. It looks like a family, according to investigators who have seen it. And then they're presenting their tickets and passports in a pile to the gate agent who's then --
COOPER: Right.
MILLER: -- going through them. And as they sweep onto the plane, she does too. So it sounds like she had a plan, it looks like she executed it very well, and that she took advantage of the massive crowds.
COOPER: So, how do you fix that problem? I mean, who does the buck stop with? Who's responsible for that?
MILLER: Well, it's the buck stops in two places. One on the TSA. They've got to look at that gap. They've got to look at, you know, who's watching those spaces. Important to remember, she did go through security screening, but she didn't go through an ID check on the getting on the plane and that's on Delta, right?
That's where that gate agent has to check those passports, visas, plane tickets --
COOPER: And would she face charges for boarding a -- stowing away in a flight?
MILLER: So she could. That's a $4,500 ticket by most estimates, so that could be grand larceny. There's civil penalties from TSA, which they could assess her. So tomorrow, when she comes back, she'll be interviewed by the FBI, other law enforcement agencies. And they'll confer with Delta and --
COOPER: How do they even get her back if she's going to keep causing a problem on a plane? I mean --
MILLER: So, she'll be with four U.S. TSA air marshals and a Delta corporate security person. And I think they're going to try again.
COOPER: Sounds like a great flight to be on that one.
John Miller, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Coming up, the CDC considers the initiative to put Florida in public drinking water one of the greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. I'll take you to one community though in New York that recently opted to remove it, that's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:44:04]
COOPER: More breaking news tonight, the president-elect's office picks this time Kash Patel, his choice to head the FBI. CNN's Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach for more. What have you learned?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, we're told that Kash Patel was told by the FBI that he had been targeted in an Iranian hack. Now this comes from two sources. One of the sources telling us that they believe that at least some of Patel's communications were compromised.
Unclear how much, unclear how big this hack was, but this is just the latest in a series of complications and a series of hackings that we have seen from foreign governments, whether it be the Chinese hackers who targeted some of Trump's inner circles on their phone, as well as the Iranian hackers who have targeted many of Trump's lawyers, for example, as well as his inner circle.
Don Junior, saying he was informed by the FBI that he was one of the biggest targets for Iran. Now, I will quickly read you the statement that we got from Kash Patel's spokesperson at the transition, Alex Pfeiffer. He said, "Kash Patel was a key part of the first Trump administration's efforts against the terrorist Iranian regime and will implement President Trump's policies and protect America from the adversaries as the FBI director". Anderson?
[20:45:11]
COOPER: All right. Kristen Holmes, thanks very much. More to learn on that.
Another controversial Cabinet pick also taking the spotlight. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is the president-elects choice for HHS Secretary. His support for removing fluoride from public drinking water has been a boon to anti fluoride activists. Days before the election, Kennedy tweeted, "On January 20th, the Trump White House will advise all U.S. water systems to remove fluoride from public water". The next day, Trump told NBC News the plan sounded OK to him, whether that will actually become policy is unclear.
Our Jason Carroll spoke with residents of one New York City suburb wrestling with the fluoride question after a decision to remove it from the water supply.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
SUSAN SIEGEL, YORKTOWN, NY RESIDENT: The anti-fluoride people are very outspoken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just don't want it in my body.
LINDA MILLER, YORKTOWN, NY RESIDENT: The science shows that we do need fluoride in the water.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Public health is not adding something to water and going, OK, we did our job.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You've just heard some pointed opinions about fluoride in drinking water. No shortage of those here in Yorktown, New York. It's a suburb of New York City, population about 36,000. And it's a town really divided over the issue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi!
CARROLL (voice-over): These women call themselves the Poison Squad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You nice and cozy?
CARROLL (voice-over): They say they want their water the way it is now, without added fluoride.
CARROLL: All of you are drinking water. How are you feeling about that?
MELANIE RYAN, YORKTOWN, NY RESIDENT: You mean the fluoride free water?
CARROLL: Yes.
RYAN: I feel amazing.
CARROLL: Yes.
RYAN: I feel like it's one less toxin that I have to worry about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll cheers to that, because that's how I feel. Let's cheers.
RYAN: If you want fluoride, you can have it. It's in your toothpaste. You can go to your dentist, you can have it put on your teeth as many times a year as you want. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really, truly think it should be a freedom of choice.
CARROLL: If you were able to have a conversation with someone who disagrees with you on this subject matter, and they were to say to you, well, look, I hear what you're saying, but I want to have a choice.
L. MILLER: What I would say to that person is that's not how public health works. Public health works because it is directed toward the public for the public good.
CARROLL: Since the 70s, the town has been adding fluoride into its water supply. But in 2012, the system that does that here at this water treatment facility failed, and it needed to be upgraded. Well, it took 12 years to do that. So for 12 years, the town had no fluoride in its water, but then they got it up and running again.
And, in fact, this is the pipe that does it, that sends the fluoride through this pipe out into the water supply. And in August, it was up and running again. They turned it back on, but a month later, it was turned off.
CARROLL (voice-over): That responsibility fell to Ed Lachterman.
ED LACHTERMAN, YORKTOWN TOWN SUPERVISOR: I would have lost sleep if I didn't do it.
CARROLL (voice-over): He's Yorktown's town supervisor, and he was one of four town board members who voted to stop adding fluoride to the water supply.
SIEGEL: If you can't believe EPA, or the NIH, or the CDC, I don't know who I'm supposed to believe.
CARROLL: So the board voted four to one against you. You were the only one who said yes, I'm in support of fluoride.
SIEGEL: The board did not listen to science.
CARROLL (voice-over): The decision to stop fluoridating the water was a controversial one.
DAN STRAUSS, YORKTOWN, NY RESIDENT: You unilaterally stopped fluoridation. On what grounds?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is now no question that fluoride is a neurotoxic.
LACHTERMAN: I think it's generational, to be honest with you, like the younger generation wants purity.
CARROLL (voice-over): Some of it may be fueled by a federal judge's order for the EPA to review possible risks of fluoride and its impact on IQ in children. But that ruling was based on studies looking at fluoride levels nearly double what's found in U.S. drinking water. Double the amount found in Yorktown's water, which was 0.7 milligrams per liter, the national standard. And while scientists agree on the adverse health effects of high levels of fluoride, there's also strong evidence showing low levels of fluoride is safe.
But science shows more research may be needed. And it should be noted. The CDC and the American Dental Association point to numerous studies showing low level fluoridation in water reduces tooth decay by at least 25 percent. Calling it, "One of the greatest public health achievements of the 20th century".
L. MILLER: It's the dosage that is important. It's the dosage that counts.
CARROLL: Would there be any acceptable level, low level of fluoride that would be OK with any of you in the water or no?
RYAN: No.
CARROLL (voice-over): And then there are questions about RFK Jr.'s influence over the debate. President-elect Donald Trump's controversial pick to head Health and Human Services says he plans to end fluoridating water in his first 90 days in office.
SIEGEL: Oh, I think certainly the RFK has magnified the issue and made it more of a national issue.
CARROLL: Was the discussion given a boost by RFK for any of you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
RYAN: No. This came before RFK was given his platform.
CARROLL: Interesting.
[20:50:03]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't really notice RFK or anybody. I was just focused and tuned in on my children and what was best for them.
L. MILLER: I wonder if this isn't a reflection of things that are happening in the country in general. This increasing distrust of science that we're seeing.
CARROLL: Do you feel like at this point, sort of the battle is over for you?
SIEGEL: I haven't given up.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
COOPER: And Jason Carroll joins me now. I mean, it's an interesting debate. Where do things stand right now with that?
CARROLL (on-camera): Well, look, again, 12 years in Yorktown without any fluoride in the water there. And one of the leading dentists there in the town who we spoke to, who did not want to go on camera because, you know, it's become a divisive issue, but he made it very clear, no fluoride in the water there means that these children are going to have more tooth decay, more cavities, more root canals.
And the worry is that it's not going to stop with fluoride. That today it's fluoride, tomorrow it's going to be something else like vaccines. The next day, who knows?
COOPER: All right. Jason Carroll, thanks very much.
Coming up, the latest episode of "All There Is" my podcast about loss and grief just got posted wherever you get your podcasts. I talked in this episode with Alex Van Halen about his brother, Eddie Van Halen, with whom he formed one of the most successful rock bands in history.
He talks about Eddie's life and death, and he still feels he communicates with his brother who died four years ago. We'll play part of that interview in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:55:59]
COOPER: An all new episode of my podcast about grief and loss, "All There Is" has just been released. It's available now wherever you get your podcasts. Right now, you can point your phone's camera at the QR code at the bottom of your screen and follow the link that pops up.
This week is about the life and death in 2020 of one of the greatest guitar players ever, Eddie Van Halen. On the podcast, I talked with his brother Alex, who was with him at the end and at the beginning of his life. They created Van Halen together. They co-founded the band. Ed, as Alex called him, on guitar, Alex on drums.
Here's part of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: How has grief been for you?
ALEX VAN HALEN, AMERICAN MUSICIAN AND DRUMMER: You know, I always thought of myself as kind of a stoic kind of guy, you know, tough. You know, I was the elder in the family, so I had a certain role to play.
COOPER: You were the protector?
VAN HALEN: Yes.
COOPER: Do you feel like you are grieving? Or do you feel like --
VAN HALEN: I'm grieving all the time.
COOPER: -- you're trying to put it aside?
VAN HALEN: I'm not running from it, because that doesn't solve the problem. COOPER: It's there, you feel it.
VAN HALEN: Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It's just -- it's -- times can be overwhelming. And the more I dwell on it, the more complicated it becomes. When I'm alone and I put on a piece of music and I hear him play, I just break -- I break down. That's it, you know, uncontrollably.
But knowing what I know about the human body, you just let it happen, otherwise it'll happen in the line at the grocery store.
COOPER: You were able to be with your brother at the end. He had a stroke and is that --
VAN HALEN: Yes.
COOPER: -- the end?
VAN HALEN: He had a massive stroke. We were in the room with him when he actually took his last breath. We just sat there and everybody was in their own head space. All I know is that when he stopped breathing, I didn't hear anything. I didn't see anything.
There were no bells. There were no angels. It was just, it stopped. And then the room was empty. And then they pulled the plug because he was on a ventilator. And because of COVID and the restrictions of the rules, they immediately carved the body off and that was it. Then we didn't see him anymore.
A very uneventful ending to an eventful life. This is going to sound a little out to left field, so to speak, but he communicates in different ways with me. And I can't really go into that because the moment you mentioned it, it breaks that bond. It's kind of a really thin thread of signs.
COOPER: There's a lot of people who feel signs and see signs.
VAN HALEN: Yes.
COOPER: And it gives great comfort. And it's only recently that I've begun to, excuse me, if I -- my voice cracks, it's uncontrollable. I've recently begun to actually feel my brother and my dad who died long ago. But I've actually started to sort of feel them inside me in a way that I never have before. And it's an extraordinary feeling.
VAN HALEN: The first real direct, if you will, communication, if you will, was more of a smell. His unique fragrance was everywhere. And I couldn't figure out rationally, where is this coming from? Is it the closet? Is it the clothes? Is it the stuff that he washed with?
But it's just -- and it shows up everywhere. Or maybe it's just my mind wants to smell that? I don't know, but it was there. And lately, it's been fading a little bit.
COOPER: But the feeling it leaves you with is positive. VAN HALEN: Oh yes. Yes. You know, in a lot of different cultures, death (technical difficulty) and I prefer to believe (technical difficulty) your podcast. You can also point your camera at the QR code on the screen right now. Click on the link.
Another way to access it this season is to go to our online grief community that we just started on CNN.com/allthereisonline. You can connect with me there and others living with grief. You can leave comments, share your own experience as well. Watch the video version of this podcast and listen to all the podcasts there.
The videos are also available on the CNN channel on YouTube. I hope all of it makes you feel a little less lonely in your grief.
The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. I'll see you tomorrow.
