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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Alleged CEO Killer Indicted On Murder, Terrorism Charges, Motive Of Wisconsin School Shooter a "Combination of Factors;" House Intel Committee Members Receive Classified Briefing On Drones; Rep. Himes After Drone Briefing: No Indication Of "Any Illegal Activity Or Any Particular Danger"; CNN Investigates Mystery Drones Over NJ; Russian General Killed In Moscow Explosion; Source Says Ukraine Responsible; 25 Films Named To National Film Registry For Preservation. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Erin, you referenced a photo where the shooter seems to be wearing a shirt with the German rock band KMFDM, whose lyrics were also cited by the Columbine School shooter.

At the time of the Columbine shooting, Reuters reported that the band issued a statement of sympathy for the Columbine victims and said their lyrics are actually meant to stand against violence.

Now, in this Facebook post that seems to be from the shooter's father, someone seems to be commenting, is that your child? And he says, sure is and that they've been enjoying that shooting range that they joined -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Natasha, thank you very much for that new image, and thanks so much, as always to all of you. Anderson starts now.

[20:00:41]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right, tonight on 360, murder in the first. Why authorities decided to seek that rare for New York charge against the alleged CEO killer and what they will need to do to make it stick.

Also tonight, the search for what motivated a 15-year-old girl to open fire at her school, killing a classmate and teacher and wounding many more.

Plus, keeping up with the drones. What a congresswoman and former navy chopper pilot makes of what is or what is not out there, and why she thinks the government needs to be doing more.

Good evening, John Berman here in for Anderson.

Tonight, Luigi Mangione the man accused of murdering health insurance CEO, Brian Thompson execution style, on a Midtown Manhattan sidewalk faces the toughest charge New York State has in its penal code, akin to a terror charge.

First degree murder, which, if a jury convicts, could get him life in prison without parole.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This was a frightening, well-planned, targeted murder that was intended to cause shock and attention and intimidation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That was Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg, explaining why he took the rare step of making first degree murder one of the 11 charges against Mangione he brought before a grand jury.

Under New York's code, this would brand the killing a political act in Mangione if convicted. Something, as we said, akin to a terrorist and as New York's police commissioner warned in no uncertain terms, not the folk hero. Some have tried to make him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA TISCH, NYPD COMMISSIONER: There is no heroism in what Mangione did. This was a senseless act of violence. It was a cold and calculated crime that stole a life and put New Yorkers at risk. We don't celebrate murders and we don't lionize the killing of anyone and any attempt to rationalize this is a vile, reckless, and offensive to our deeply held principles of justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: NYPD Chief of Detectives Joseph Kenny weighed in as well, with a previously undisclosed piece of information about Mangione's mother, who in mid-November had reported her son missing to police in San Francisco.

Several days after the Thompson killing, a New York police sergeant on the joint NYPD, FBI task force saw a photo of the suspect, connected it with the missing person report and asked Mrs. Mangione about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: It was one of four tips that they had received that day and they were vetting it. Part of that vetting process was that they reached out to Mangione's mother in San Francisco very late on the seventh. They had a conversation where she didn't indicate that it was her son in the photograph, but she said it might be something that she could see him doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What a tantalizing new detail there and that is not all we are learning tonight. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins us from outside the Manhattan DA's office with the latest.

Shimon, what more can you tell us about these new charges?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, John, as you said, this is the most severe possible charge the district attorney could have brought against Mangione. It certainly caught some by surprise.

This enhancement, the terrorism charge, which essentially means he is now facing life in prison without the chance of parole. You have murder in the first degree. In order to get to murder in the first degree, they needed that terrorism enhancement and that changes the ballgame completely.

He's also charged with counts of murder in the second degree. There is also an act of terrorism associated with that charge. There is the gun charge for the ghost gun that police found on him and there are other charges as well, but they are far minor and will really not have any role.

But this is certainly a significant step here by the district attorney making a very clear message to what we're seeing out there on social media.

And also just the gravity of this, the level of which these investigators moved in this case and now the DA bringing this rare charge in a terrorism enhancement tells you how seriously the district attorney feels about this case and really just what's going on in the country and just what has happened here to the CEO, Brian Thompson.

BERMAN: You could hear it in all their voices today when they were speaking. When can we expect Mangione back in New York, I should say?

[20:05:00]

PROKUPECZ: Well, it could happen Thursday, John. He's expected to be in court in Pennsylvania. That's where he is, Altoona, Pennsylvania, that's where the police found him. That's where he was arrested, being held on that gun charge.

We're told he's no longer fighting his extradition. So that means things will be sped up. Things will move much quicker.

He will appear there on Thursday. It is likely that the NYPD detectives, the same detectives that have been working on this investigation nonstop, will be there in Altoona, Pennsylvania, to put their handcuffs on him and then drive him here to New York City. And then on Thursday, he could be back here in Manhattan and at some point after that, will face a judge here for the charges of murder one and murder two --John.

BERMAN: A lot of activity in the next few days. Shimon Prokupecz great to have you with us, for sure.

With us here tonight, criminal defense attorney and former Manhattan prosecutor Jeremy Saland, former federal prosecutor Jessica Roth. She's currently on the faculty at New York's Cardozo school of law. Also, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.

And John, let me just start with you. What do you think was behind the DA's decision to charge the case in this way? JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT: I think the facts of the case, it's a unique case in that, you know, we have seen mob hits on the street, but I can't remember another case where we saw a lone gunman allegedly involved in extensive planning walk up behind somebody, the father of two, for the specific purpose of executing him because of his position as the head of the largest health care insurer in the United States, and that, according to the district attorney, is an attempt to coerce or influence the public or citizenry or an industry towards change, which is included in the terrorism charge.

BERMAN: Jeremy, inside the courtroom, what will prosecutors what will the DA's office have to prove to make this stick?

JEREMY SALAND, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: As John just said, there's that necessary element. It's not just the intent to kill. It's not just the pre-planning to kill, but that objective and goal in the Penal Law, 490 of the Penal Law, Subsection 05 defines sort of three categories related to terrorism.

I maybe objectively or subjectively believe this is a bit of a stretch. If I'm somebody, you kill a police officer, that's one thing. If you kill a witness to a crime, that's something else too, that would rise to this first degree homicide or murder.

But this is, I think if I'm someone who's brother or sister or sibling was murdered on the street, why should CEO's murder be treated differently than my loved one? I think it's trying to send a message, but I think it's going to also potentially cause them problems. And that's why they kept also that regular if you will, murder two.

BERMAN: But even with the motivation, the idea of a political motivation in the writing, Jeremy.

SALAND: That may be true, but the argument on the flip of that is whether it rises to the level of insanity and that mental defect, that is something you're going to argue. But is this something that Luigi had been planning and had railed against for years or decades, or is it something that recently, in his mind he has a mental health issue, came to this place?

That's the difference between really terrorism. When I think of terrorism, you know, someone overseas or even a lone actor in this particular case.

BERMAN: We'll circle back to insanity in just a moment. But I do think also the nature of these charges deals with the idea of possible nullification of a jury that might be influenced by politics, Jessica.

And before Karen Friedman-Agnifilo was hired as the attorney, she was on AC360, and she was saying shed be worried about jury nullification, were she prosecuting the case, noting the, "outpouring of support and sympathy for Mr. Mangione".

So, talk to me about how, if you would be concerned about that and how these charges may be play there. JESSICA ROTH, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK, Well, I think one reason why this charge was brought is because it does sort of up the stakes in terms of the penalty that he's facing. He'd be facing mandatory life imprisonment on this terrorism first degree murder charge or second degree murder charge with the terrorism enhancement.

And so, by including that, the district attorney is setting up the conditions for a plea to a lesser charge, where he actually has the possibility of at some point getting out of prison.

And so, it could be a plea to that sort of regular second degree murder charge that doesn't have the terrorism enhancement. If there isn't a plea, it's also setting up the conditions for a jury compromise on that lesser charge.

And so if there are people in the jury room who either are not satisfied that the standard for terrorism is actually satisfied or in some way are sympathetic to the defendant, they might be willing to convict him on a lesser charge.

BERMAN: Yes, they're going to hear a lot in that courtroom about terror. Now, since you both were speaking about the insanity thing, let me play a little bit more about what Agnifilo again said here on AC360 about that possible defense. This was before she was on board with the defendant, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, LUIGI MANGIONE'S LAWYER: There might be a not guilty by reason of insanity defense that they're going to be thinking about because the evidence is going to be so overwhelming that he did what he did. And I hear what you're saying about being radicalized. I hear what you guys are saying.

But as a former prosecutor in that office, I would be concerned that you have someone who is a valedictorian of his class. He was brilliant his whole life. He comes from this great family. I mean, something changed, right? Significantly, something changed and they're going to, I think, potentially have a not guilty by reason of insanity potential defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:10:15]

BERMAN: All right. So, how compelling is that defense and again where do the charges that we learned today play into that?

ROTH: Well so I think again this goes to Jeremy's point about the level of planning and detail. It's hard to sort of reconcile both an insanity defense, which is a really high standard under New York law, requires essentially showing the person didn't know the nature and quality of their actions, or whether they knew what they were doing was wrong. And somebody who engages in this kind of very careful planning and execution, literally of that kind of plan. And so, I think that, legally speaking, he's facing an uphill battle in making out an insanity defense. On the other hand, it may be that the defense strategy is just to get it to the jury for consideration in the hopes that it will essentially find some basis for the jury to acquit him.

SALAND: I generally agree with that. I think one of the angles that Karen very well may take is that you can still plan, you can still not be fully aware.

The law doesn't require that you are completely aware of the consequences of what you were doing, but that, even with that planning, he was still ill. And I would add also that there may be the approaches, even if it doesn't reach that legal bar, it will be used to mitigate the conduct, to say, hey, let's pull it back down, even if it doesn't find its way into a courtroom.

BERMAN: I always get nervous when John Miller is checking his devices, because it means there's some new information coming in. You are getting some new information about what's going on inside prison with Mangione.

MILLER: So our own Danny Freeman, who's covering Philadelphia and this case, said, you know, since he's been there, he's gotten 33 pieces of mail, six messages. Let me just make sure I didn't get that wrong. But 33 e-mails, eight pieces of mail.

So, it's part of the sign that you have both shown cognizance of that there is developing more than the profile of a suspect. There is developing the cult of personality, where before he's even really been arraigned on a murder charge, he's already getting what I'm going to suggest is likely fan mail as a bounce from what we're seeing on the internet.

BERMAN: What does that mean for both the prosecution and defense here? Because this is a reality. I mean, look, we hear from the law enforcement how upset they are that this guy is being lionized here, but it's happening. So what does that mean for the prosecution?

MILLER: And I want to circle back to the earlier point, which is he walked up behind a man who, whatever business he's in and however reviled that business may be, he shot in the back, who was the father of two, who was a human being. And that seems to be skipped over in the lionizing of him, to use the police commissioner's word.

ROTH: So the lionizing of him is incredibly disturbing.

And I think it goes back to why the district attorney and he said in the in the press conference that was part of why they were bringing such serious charges was to express their incredible -- the seriousness of this case.

But going back to the problem that the lionizing poses, I think the jury selection process is going to be really challenging, and there may be people there who actually are trying to get onto the jury because they are sympathetic to him. And so, I think that that process of voir dire is going to be even more important than it is in a different kind of case.

BERMAN: And I also think we'll be watching every step of the way, every time he walks into public. What will he say? Will he chose to speak out or act out and continue to play to the crowd here?

MILLER: And in addition, 157 deposits into his prison account from outside people.

BERMAN: All right, friends, thank you very much, John. Do not go far. I want to get your assessment of the new developments tonight in the case in Wisconsin, the school shooting in Madison and all we are learning about what motivated the 15-year-old girl responsible.

Plus, the latest on those suspected drones over parts of the East Coast, with intelligence officials briefing some lawmakers and plenty more in Congress speaking out about what they think is out there. We're going to speak with one who knows her way around the skies, Congresswoman and former navy chopper pilot Mikie Sherrill joins us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:18:28]

BERMAN: All right. This is video from just moments ago. A vigil outside the Wisconsin State Capitol in Madison, not far from the Abundant Life Christian School, where a 15-year-old girl armed with a nine millimeter pistol shot and killed a classmate, a teacher, and wounded six others before taking her own life.

In addition to the vigil, community members have also begun setting up a memorial outside the school and try even just a little to comfort one another as trauma gives way to grieving and the search for answers begins. More on that part from CNN's Whitney Wild in Madison.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHIEF SHON F. BARNES, MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT: We were brought together by a tragedy.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Madison, Police Chief Shon Barnes, solemnly addressing the shooting Monday, where a 15-year-old female student opened fire inside Abundant Life Christian School. Finding a motive remains a top priority for law enforcement. So far, it appears to be a combination of factors.

BARNES: We're looking into her online activity. We're asking anyone who knew her or who may have insights into her feelings leading up to yesterday to please contact the Madison Area Crime Stoppers.

WILD (voice over): Chief Barnes, also addressing reports that the shooter may have left writings that some on the internet have called an online manifesto.

BARNES: We have detectives working today to determine where this document originated and who actually shared it online.

WILD (voice over): The tragedy unfolded when a second grade teacher, not a second grade student as police originally reported, called 911 at 10:57 AM.

DISPATCH: Abundant Life Christian Church, 49-01 for engine five and medic five for a shooter.

[20:20:04]

WILD (voice over): Officers arrived within minutes at 11:05. They reported that the shooter was down and a gun was recovered.

DISPATCH: MPD is saying everybody can come in, all EMS, can come in, shooter is down.

WILD (voice over): Madison police say the shooter opened fire inside a study hall with students from recovered mixed grades using a handgun, killing a teacher, a student and wounding six others before turning the gun on herself. Law enforcement are working to determine how she obtained the weapon.

Officers searched the shooter's home Monday afternoon and are looking into her online activity. Chief Barnes says her parents are cooperating and they don't expect to charge them at this time.

BARNES: We also want to look at if the parents may have been negligent, and that's a question that we will have to answer with our district attorney's office.

WILD (voice over): Monday's tragedy has traumatized this small religious school. Some students describing the terror they felt after hearing gunshots.

ADLER JEAN-CHARLES, SIXTH GRADE STUDENT: She just waited until the police came and then they escorted us out --

WILD (voice over): And a heart breaking account from this second grader who says she could hear cries from a teacher wounded in the leg.

NORA GOTTSCCHALK, SECOND GRADE STUDENT, ABUNDANT LIFE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL: She was going like "Ah, my leg, help, help.

REPORTER: Do you know that teacher?

GOTTSCCHALK: Yes.

REPORTER: What was it like to hear that? Were you scared?

GOTTSCCHALK: I was really scared and I was really sad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Understandable. Whitney Wild joins us now from the Wisconsin Capitol. Whitney, what did you see tonight at the vigil there? WILD: John, we saw an outpouring of community support. We saw people hugging. We saw tears. We saw prayers.

And what I think is so striking about the vigil tonight was that these were people from well beyond the Abundant Life Christian School community coming together to try to show their support for people who are deeply grieving tonight -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Whitney Wild, you've been there since the beginning. Thank you so much for your reporting on this.

John Miller is back with us. Also joining us, Former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe. John, we heard from the Madison police chief. I talked to him this morning. He said that he's trying to determine the motive here. What they're trying to do is determine the motive.

And they called, maybe a little bit of caution toward the idea of this so-called manifesto. What's your reporting there?

MILLER: Well, the question that they're grappling with is A is it real? And the second question they're grappling with is, so if it is real, and it was posted just before or after the shooting, who posted it? It appears, according to the chief, that another person may have posted it, which means if that person saw it and it is a legitimate document, why didn't they come forward to say something that could have stopped it?

Then there's the final and larger question, which is if police determine that's the manifesto, what do we do with it? And I think the lesson that we've learned after all these shootings is, you don't want to release that. You don't want to share it with the public. You don't want it posted on the internet, because that becomes a template for the next shooter.

BERMAN: Again, we're so focused on motive here, but we may never learn these details because it may do more harm than good in the future. Important note there, john.

And we got some new information that I want to read, just to make sure that I get it right. We just learned that the shooters father posted a photo on Facebook of his daughter at a shooting range, I think, with him in August.

And in that photo, which were not going to show here, she's wearing a shirt with the name of a band whose lyrics were cited by the student gunman who carried out the 1999 Columbine massacre.

So, talk to us about what the significance is at a shooting range with the father, and then the t-shirt, which may or may not hearken back to one of the worst school shootings in US History.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure, so, John, actually, the t-shirt is the is the piece of this new reporting that really grabs my attention because it just seems highly unlikely that there would be a coincidence that she happened to, you know, listen to or follow this band and not be aware of the connection to Columbine. And I say that because Columbine really reigns supreme in the minds of many of these shooters. And honestly, many young people who follow the history of the Columbine shooter and the experience at Columbine and people who visit it annually. It is a highly symbolic event, and particularly for young people who are disillusioned and dissatisfied and maybe struggling in some ways, and they start to kind of look up to these guys in a very, very destructive way. So, I feel like that the t-shirt is a really significant piece of information.

As for the father's, you know, teaching his daughter how to shoot, taking her to the range, you know, it's hard to know without more detail how much significance to put on that. That is certainly something that hundreds of thousands of Americans do every year with their kids.

[20:25:00]

My father did it with me and my brother when we were kids, and I don't think in and of itself, it's an indicator of anything that may be influenced. Where she ended up and the decisions she made this week. But again, we need to know more about that.

Really the most important detail in that scenario is how did she this get possession and control of this nine millimeter handgun? You know, that's is -- if they were going shooting a lot and she had free access to those guns, that's something that will inform us and will maybe shed some light as to whether or not her parents will be held accountable for this in some way.

BERMAN: Well, i asked the police chief this morning flat out, you know, was this the parents' gun? And he wouldn't answer me. He would say, were still looking into that. But what's the likelihood that they still don't know the answer to that question? Wouldn't that be one of the easiest things to determine most quickly?

MCCABE: You know, my experience tells me that, you know, the ATF has probably gotten back to them with a pretty thorough trace in terms of the purchase and ownership history of that weapon. If they've been talking to the family productively and cooperatively over the last 24 hours, it's impossible to think that they haven't asked those questions and gotten some answer to it.

So, yeah, I would expect they know a lot more about that than we do at this point. We haven't heard from the prosecutor yet, and that will really be the indicator as to whether or not, the town and the state is thinking of pursuing some sort of charge against the parents.

BERMAN: So, John, to the question of the t-shirt. You said to me as we were coming back from break, it all goes back, as Andrew said, there it all goes back to Columbine.

MILLER: And I mean, when you look at these shooters and you do these search warrants and you're involved in these cases and you peel back, you learn those two things. We talked about this yesterday for a minute. They don't snap. These things aren't sudden, they're studied and you know. They all research by and large, the vast majority start their research with the Columbine killers and look at others.

And what are they comparing. They're comparing body counts. They're comparing -- some of them have actually worn the t shirts that the Columbine shooters wore in their actions. And everybody knows those names.

This is one of these things where rather than focusing on the motive, rather than focusing on the gun, um, we need to kind of reprogram people in and around schools to focus on what are the behavioral indicators that someone is in crisis like this, and how do you interrupt it before the planning stage is complete?

BERMAN: You know, and to that end, Andrew, the investigation into the parents, as the police chief said to me and has been saying all day, look, they are still looking into that. They haven't ruled anything in or out yet.

I imagine one of the questions will be, did the parents know about the T-shirt? And if they even knew about the existence of the t-shirt, did they know about the connection? Then, what did they know about the guns and how were they locking up the guns? How do they go about that part of the investigation?

MCCABE: So John, you hit on a great point. The relevance of the -- whether or not the parents, if this shooter was focused on or really, you know, really following the Columbine, the history of the Columbine shooters and the t-shirt is evidence of that. If the parents knew about that interest in the Columbine shooting, then that makes their -- and if they also allowed the student to have like free uncontrolled access to firearms, that makes that decision look more reckless, and would then make it I would say more likely that they would get charged for something.

So as we saw with the Crumbley case in Michigan, it's a very complicated mixture of facts. It's not just that the student did the shooting. It's not just that the parents ultimately purchased and provided the gun to him, but also that the parents knew that he was struggling, knew that he needed mental health, but didn't get him that sort of health, knew that he was carrying the gun, you know, so it's the layering on of those facts that raises the specter of accountability or seeking accountability from the parents.

BERMAN: And we just don't have any visibility yet what the police think or investigators think about that, or whether the parents had any idea at all, because police have been very careful of what they've released publicly there, because clearly it's an ongoing investigation.

Andrew McCabe, John Miller, thank you so much for helping us understand all this new information just coming in.

Next, there is still no definitive explanation for the possible suspicious drone activity over parts of the East Coast. Lawmakers on Capitol Hill received a classified intelligence briefing today. We'll have the latest on that. I'll be joined by new jersey congresswoman who has firsthand experience in military aviation. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:33:54]

BERMAN: The federal government is under increasing pressure to share more information with the public about possible suspicious drone activity over New Jersey and parts of the East Coast. Videos of what appear to be unidentified aircraft began going viral last month. The House Intelligence Committee had a classified briefing about this all today.

This is what Ranking Member Congressman Jim Himes told Jake Tapper just after.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

REP. JIM HIMES (D), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: And I asked probably in 12 different ways, is any of this federal government operations? You know, there's a lot of rumor out there that this is radiation sniffing or chemical sniffing. This is not a federal government operation.

We're very, very confident of that. Most of them turn out to be regular aircraft. Yes, some drones, recreational, commercial. People are seeing stars. You know, there's, again, no indication that there's any illegal activity or any particular danger or malign activity.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: Well, I'm joined now by New Jersey Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill. The congresswoman is a former Navy helicopter commander and out with her own five-part plan of action to improve communication with the public about drone activity.

Congresswoman, you heard your tri-state colleague, Himes, Congressman Himes say, not nefarious, not a government operation. Do you share his confidence on those two points?

[20:35:09]

REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): So I spoke to Himes after his briefing. I also had a briefing from the White House today. And I think what we know today is that this was going on for really a month until it seemed as if we started to get some responses.

There still doesn't appear to be the coordination I would like to see between all of the government agencies, even at the White House briefing. You know, myself and Pat Ryan, two military veterans, were just sort of asking questions. And I don't think either one of us felt like even the White House briefer had the information that we had from being on the ground and speaking to our military bases.

But it does appear as if sensitive equipment is finally on the ground after, as I said, almost a month to get it there. We are better tracking the drones. The information that the FBI has received, they are now tracking carefully all of the reports and tracking those reports. They have not identified any threats at this time. But again, we have still quite a bit of work to do as we are behind the power curve here. So that's what we know at this point. And I think we can feel very good about that to date.

But I think what we don't feel good about, what I don't feel good about, is a sense that this took too long, that communications still -- and I'm still hearing this on the ground from law enforcement -- communications are still not flowing appropriately to everyone who needs to understand where the investigations are leading and then get information to the public about what is being found.

And then we need a plan going forward. We really need to have a better operation going forward. What we've seen here at this time is we have like 1980s-era policies to combat a current threat, and that's not acceptable.

BERMAN: Well, but there is a difference, you agree, between bad communications and then bad stuff in the sky, correct? And you're more confident it's bad communications right now than there's bad stuff in the sky.

SHERRILL: Well, I think I feel better about that right now. I feel like we are moving towards that at this time. I'm still, though, not convinced that because -- it's not just bad communications with people on the ground. It's not just bad communications with the people of New Jersey.

I worry that our government organizations are not communicating well with each other, which is why going forward, we need a better plan of how we are going to address this, who is going to be in charge, which agency, who is going to lead the other agencies. And then how are they going to get the equipment we need very nimbly, very quickly on the ground so that the FBI can track this.

And at this point, I do feel better about that. I feel like we have the equipment on the ground. We are tracking it. We are not finding the threats that people are worried about. Yet, I still feel as if we still have to have more information.

I would like more confidence in what is being communicated to me is all of the information that the agencies have, that they are collating it all together, and an understanding of if anything remains outstanding that we're concerned about.

BERMAN: And this is all part of the plan that you proposed, yes?

SHERRILL: Exactly. That is correct. This going forward has to work better. We can -- it can't take a month for people to get the equipment on the ground we need. It can't take a month for people in government to start accepting that people are seeing things in the air and responding to just that.

BERMAN: You've seen a lot of stuff in the air. It was part of your job for a long time. So when you look up, are you willing to accept what John Kirby has told us, what others have told us, that a lot of what people are seeing are planes and helicopters? Not all, but a lot of what people are seeing.

SHERRILL: Sure. I think that's right. I think most people in New Jersey think that's true. A lot of what is being said -- we have a very heavily trafficked state. We have major international airports. We have smaller airports. We have helicopters going overhead.

Look, I think we are all willing to accept that the majority of air traffic over the skies in New Jersey at night are actual commercial air -- you know, is actually commercial air traffic. And then I also think that we know there are a lot of hobby drones.

You know, my kids have received drones for Christmas a couple of years ago, but we want to know those larger scale drones. Is there any evidence of that? Is it simply law enforcement now patrolling the skies, which they are doing with their own equipment? Or is there something else out there?

And I think at this point, with the equipment that we now finally have on the ground in New Jersey, we are starting to track what's going on in the sky and we are not seeing any threats. We are not seeing any signs of any threats.

[20:40:02]

I feel very good about where we are headed. I still want to see better communication and be assured that all of the government agencies have come together, have responded to this and understand what's going on and understand what's been happening in our skies over the past month.

BERMAN: And I assume you were not pointing the finger at your own kids here, even though they, like so many others now, have drones that they're flying at all hours --

SHERRILL: They have been grounded. Right now, as we are going through this and trying to determine this --

BERMAN: Yes.

SHERRILL: -- my kids' drones have been grounded.

BERMAN: Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill, we appreciate your time. Thanks so much for being with us tonight.

SHERRILL: Thank you.

BERMAN: So we sent CNN Aviation Correspondent Pete Muntean to do his own investigation into what's happening in the skies over New Jersey. Pete is a pilot with extensive expertise in identifying aircraft. This is what he found.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We are on the lookout for drones, with drones, where fears first took off -- New Jersey. Ocean County Sheriff Sergeant Kevin Fennessy is one of about a dozen drone officers responding to calls and now tracking flights from inside this major crimes command center, now turned into a drone war room.

SGT. KEVIN FENNESSY, OCEAN COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: It's wild, the amount of air traffic over New Jersey and especially over Ocean County.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The sergeant says, sure, many of the calls the department gets are actually airplanes, helicopters, medevacs, planets, even stars. But they have seen things they just cannot explain. A sheriff's lookout drone tethered to the ground captured this video.

FENNESSY: We had something coming at us. And as it's coming at us, it stops, you know, just like a 180 in the air and then drives away and then comes back and does like a giant U around us. So that's not normal for aircraft.

MUNTEAN: So this is really happening.

FENNESSY: We think so. You know, it's definitely something that whatever we're seeing, we can't figure out what it is.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The federal government reiterated Tuesday that the vast majority of purported drone sightings are, in fact, airplanes or drones flying legally with no threat to public safety. But don't say that to the folks on this boardwalk who were not shy to tell me about what they have seen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's drones. Too many people have seen them to it. Not be real.

LAURA BENEDICT, SEASIDE HEIGHTS, NJ RESIDENT: I haven't seen -- I do think it's legitimate, but I don't believe that nobody knows where they're coming from.

MICK WEST, WRITER AND UAP ANALYST: I haven't seen any legitimate drone sightings in this current flap around New Jersey.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Science writer and conspiracy expert Mick West investigates possible drone sightings and says that you can, too.

WEST: If you can get the details, the date, the time and the location, you can actually look up what was in the sky at that point and look at what direction they were looking in. And you can see, you know, that it was actually just a plane.

MUNTEAN: We're on the boardwalk. The sun is set and the sky has really come alive. You can see almost why folks are reporting so many drone sightings.

Off in the distance over the Atlantic Ocean there, I can see several planes. I'm corroborating here with the same app that they use over in the command center. This is called ADS-B Exchange showing within about a 20-mile view planes broadcasting their position live.

There's an Atlas Air cargo flight that just left not too far away from here going out over the Atlantic Ocean. There's a Delta flight that's coming in over the Atlantic, turning north to go into JFK. And then another really bright light above those two. That is Jupiter. But it's the things that cannot be explained so easily that have folks here really concerned.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Deputies like Kevin Fennessy hope the truth is still out there.

FENNESSY: We're not drone hunters. We're just trying to see if we can figure out what's going on, where they're coming from and try to put this to bed.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

MUNTEAN (on-camera): The Pentagon is deploying drone systems to two military bases here in New Jersey. Naval Weapons Station Earle is the closest, only about 25 miles away from where I'm standing. The goal is to detect and identify drones, not shoot them down.

The idea (ph) is to jam the signal between the controller and the drone itself in hopes that the drone will essentially land on its own. John?

BERMAN: Pete Muntean, that was one of the coolest stand-up show-and- tells I've ever seen. Thank you so much for that. Appreciate it.

One quick note before we go to break. Last Thursday and Friday nights, we aired a video posted on social media of what was claimed to be a drone in the skies over New Jersey. We have since learned it was created digitally. We regret that error and we are no longer airing that.

Coming up, a key Russian general is assassinated in Moscow. We will tell you who is claiming responsibility. We've got a report from right inside Russia next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:49:04]

BERMAN: A stunning assassination in Moscow today. A key Russian general was killed in an explosion outside an apartment building just a few miles from the Kremlin. Russian officials say a bomb was planted in an electric scooter.

A source with knowledge of the attack tells CNN that Ukraine's security service, Ukraine's, was responsible. Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov was the highest-ranking Russian military official that Ukraine is believed to have killed since the war began. Russia has classified the killing as a terrorist act.

CNN Senior International Correspondent Frederik Pleitgen is in Moscow tonight with the details.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): One of Russia's top generals and an aide just seconds before the fatal blast. We're not showing the moment of the explosion in this video obtained by CNN.

PLEITGEN: Russian investigators say the bomb with about 300 grams of TNT was hidden in an electric scooter parked just outside the entrance of that building. As the general and an aide walked out, it blew up, killing them both.

[20:50:01]

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Russian investigators say the device was detonated remotely. The blast so powerful it shattered windows several floors up in buildings across the street.

At first, we thought that cement might have been unloaded or something similar, this resident says, but the blast was so loud it did not seem like construction work. It was very scary.

Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov was the head of Russia's nuclear chemical and biological defense forces, often accusing Kyiv of planning to use chemicals on the battlefield. The Ukrainians, for their part, accused Kirillov of overseeing the use of chemical substances against their forces and have claimed responsibility for assassinating him, calling the general, quote, an absolutely legitimate target, and saying such an inglorious end awaits all those who kill Ukrainians.

The general is not the first, but the highest ranking Russian military official the Ukrainians claim to have assassinated. Moscow furious, launching both a terrorism and a criminal investigation.

Investigative actions and operational search activities are being carried out aimed at establishing all the circumstances of the crime committed, the spokesperson said. Asymmetric warfare, like this brazen drone attack inside Russia two days ago, is how the Ukrainian forces are trying to level the battlefield, as Vladimir Putin's army has been making significant gains on nearly all front lines.

The lieutenant general's assassination comes just hours after Putin met with his top military brass, ripping into the Biden administration for its support of Ukraine.

In an effort to weaken our country and impose a strategic defeat on us, the United States continues to pump the virtually illegitimate ruling regime in Kyiv, full of weapons and money, sends mercenaries and military advisers, and thereby encourages further escalation of the conflict, Putin said.

And Russian politicians have vowed revenge for the general's killing while acknowledging his death is a major loss.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BERMAN: And Fred Pleitgen joins us now from Moscow. Fred, what are U.S. officials saying about this attack? PLEITGEN (on-camera): Hi there, John. Well, the U.S. is definitely trying to distance itself from all of this. Both the Pentagon and the Secretary of State are saying that the U.S. had no role in this, has no further information on all this, and had no prior knowledge of this either.

So the U.S. definitely saying that America was not involved in any way, shape or form in all this. And that probably is also quite important because the Russians are actually trying to pin the blame, not only on the Ukrainians, but on the West as well.

There were several top-level Russian politicians who are saying that they believe that there is a link to the West. And there was one senior Russian senator, John, who came out and said that he believes that all of this shows the desperation, not just of the Ukrainians, but of their Western backers as well.

And went so far to say that he believes that all this could complicate any sort of talks between Moscow and Washington once the Trump administration comes into office. John?

BERMAN: Fred Pleitgen, you were right in the middle of it all day long. Thank you so much for being with us tonight.

And coming up, what a "Dirty Dancing", "The Social Network", and the original "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" have in common? We'll explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:37]

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody puts baby in a corner.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: That's damn right, nobody puts baby in a corner. But they now can see her in the National Film Registry. "Dirty Dancing", along with 24 other films, are this year's additions to the film archives maintained by the Library of Congress. That includes relatively recent popular and critical favorites, including "The Social Network", and of course, the franchise favorite performance by Ricardo Montalban of 1982's "Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan". Khan.

Joining me now to discuss the ancient Gillingham proverb that revenge is a best serve cold, Harry Enten. Nice to see you.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Nice to see you. Fantastic acting.

BERMAN: All right. So how can I get a film on this list?

ENTEN: You know, I was really hoping. I submitted a name. You know, the public can submit some names. I submitted "Baby Geniuses 2". It didn't quite work out for me. But the bottom line is, it's just really, really rare.

You know, this year we were talking well over 6,500 films, I believe, that were sort of nominated to potentially be part of the film registry. And look at this. Only 25 were added. Only 25 out of more than 6,700.

And so what we're dealing with here is, I think if you do put it out in a percentage point, it's like 0.4 percent or something along those lines. It's just incredibly, incredibly difficult. So the fact that these 25 were added is quite a testament to their popularity and also their cultural relevance.

BERMAN: What stands out to you about the list?

ENTEN: You know, what stands out to me about the list is just sort of the time span of this list. You know, you have to go all the way back to 1895. I want to get this name right, Annabelle Serpentine Dance.

In fact, I believe it was hand color, you know, tinted. That's how long ago that film was. It was a short little film. And it spans all the way to 2010. And there it is right there. And look at that. Look at that. Isn't that amazing?

BERMAN: It is.

ENTEN: It is. It's a wonderful short film. And you look at that, and then you sort of go to the newest film, which is the, you know, "The Social Network" in 2010, which is about social media. So you have, you know, a hand color tinted film on the one end, and then a film about social media on the other. It truly spans the ages.

BERMAN: Just show us how classy you are that you're focused on Annabelle's Serpentine Dance, while I'm focused on "Up in Smoke", Cheech and Chong's. I'm like, from like 1970? I saw that on the list, and I'm like, is that what I think it is? Are we finally giving --

ENTEN: Yes.

BERMAN: -- that film the recognition it deserves?

ENTEN: Absolutely right. That's what I love about this list. There's no film that's too highbrow or too lowbrow for it. I'm not saying "Up in Smoke" is lowbrow at all. I think it's genius. Do you have a favorite on the list?

ENTEN: You know, I love "Dirty Dancing". And part of the reason I love "Dirty Dancing" is, you know, it's about the Catskill Mountains. In fact, my Nana Esther ran a hotel up in the Catskill Mountains in the 1960s when "Dirty Dancing" took place.

Nana Esther, mwuah, I love you wherever you are right now.

BERMAN: If there's one thing I did learn from "Dirty Dancing", it is that dancing can solve everything.

ENTEN: We're going to find that out after the show. BERMAN: Harry, thank you for being here. I've had the time of my life.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.