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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Trump Funding Freeze Remains in "Full Force" Despite Rescinding Memo; Kennedy Confirmation Prospects Unclear After Combative Hearing; FBI Director Nominee Kash Patel In The Hot Seat; Defense Secretary Revokes Security Detail And Clearance For Trump Critic General Mark Milley; American Volunteer Fighters Killed And MIA In Ukraine. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired January 29, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY ROBBINS, ENTREPRENEUR AND AUTHOR: If we've got a compelling tomorrow and I really believe it's going to take a long time, it's going to be rough. But LA is going to be a brand new city. Everything's going to be new at a whole different level.

And, you know, it's kind of the hero's journey. We know the oldest story in humanity is the hero's journey. You're living your life normally and then bam, something comes and disrupts it.

Somebody gets cancer in your family, your house burns down, something, and it's -- they call it the call to adventure because it makes us do new things. I had to go find a new home and we find new friends and we begin with new mentors and I started some new businesses and out of that house burning down a lot of incredible things came from it. I'm not namby-pamby about this positive thinking but if all you do is focus on loss, you'll have no future.

We've got to get people to turn that around and that's why I'm doing this Time to Rise Summit, where people can come for three days, three hours a day and show them what they can do, not just in LA, we'll do it for people around the world. We have 1.2 million people joining us starting tomorrow.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, well, Tony, thank you so much. It's always wonderful to see you and thank you.

ROBBINS: Thank you for the great work you're doing. We really appreciate you, Erin, for sure.

BURNETT: All right, and thanks so much to all of you. It's time for Anderson.

[20:01:08]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, confusion on top of confusion in a funding freeze now frozen by courts that appears to have turned into a loss of face for the new administration.

Also, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. nominated to lead the Department of Health and Human Services on Capitol Hill and in the hot seat about his past statements regarding vaccines and public health.

And later, Trump's retribution tour rolls on. Now, it's retired four- star general Mark Milley. He loses his security detail. But could he also lose one of those four stars?

Good evening.

The White House yesterday was claiming that there was no confusion or chaos over their federal funding freeze, but today they started backpedaling hard, which has in some ways only compounded the confusion.

Now, today, the Trump administration rescinded the policy, then qualified that leaving the unmistakable image of an administration barely a week old backing off a major fight. It began, but couldn't explain thoroughly enough even to some Republicans. So, let's review.

Now, on Monday night, the Office of Management and Budget's acting director issued this two-page memo. It was as far reaching as it was vague.

It called for a temporary pause for all agencies to, "identify and review all federal financial assistance programs," adding it includes and is not limited to what it called, "DEI woke gender, ideology and the Green New Deal."

Now, few outside the administration understood what that meant exactly, but the impacts were pretty quick. State Medicaid agencies reported they were unable to access federal funds. Senator Ron Wyden said his staff confirmed that Medicaid portals were down in all 50 states.

On Tuesday, the second memo was issued, and it didn't clarify matters. And ahead of Tuesday's 5:00 PM deadline, when the program was supposed to start, a federal judge sided in part with a group of nonprofits. She temporarily blocked the freeze on funds, and shortly before that, the administration said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: In other words, is this an attempt to pick a fight to prove that he can do this?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, absolutely not. As it says right here in the memo, which I have, and I'd encourage all of you to read it. It says the American people elected president Trump to be the president of the United States and gave him a mandate to increase the impact of every federal dollar.

This memo requires federal agencies to identify and review all federal financial assistance programs and supporting activities consistent with the president's policies and requirements.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Now, even after that briefing, the president's top domestic policy adviser, Stephen Miller, came on CNN to try and explain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, DOMESTIC POLICY ADVISER: The OMB guidance memo. If you read it, is as clear as day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: But it wasn't, which even some Republicans were saying. And then today, we learned in a new memo that the original memo that was allegedly clear as day had now been rescinded. Here is that new two sentence memo in its entirety.

"OMB memorandum M-25-13 is rescinded. If you have questions about implementing the President's Executive Orders, please contact your agency general counsel."

Okay, so that seems pretty clear. The original OMB memo is rescinded. That's what the memo says. OMB memorandum M-25-13 is rescinded. But shortly after that memo was released came this tweet from the White House press secretary, "This is not a rescission of the federal funding freeze. It is simply a rescission of the OMB memo. Why? To end any confusion created by the court's injunction, the president's EO, executive orders on federal funding remain in full force and effect, and will be rigorously implemented."

So the memo is rescinded, but not the executive orders on federal funding or freezing of federal funding, including those covering policies on DEI, the Inflation Reduction Act and foreign aid on which it was based.

But in addition to that first judicial stay, a second federal judge today said he would issue another block. In fact, he rejected the Justice Department's arguments that the new rescission memo rendered a legal challenge moot. He's putting off a final ruling until he gets more information from the states that brought the lawsuit.

Also today, the administration, in a statement, labeled any claim that the president's directives, that is, his executive orders are being rescinded, is a hoax and they blame the media for this hoax.

What is clear tonight is that the administration lost its footing in a battle it wanted to wage on spending, and now appears to be backing down or just trying to catch their breath.

Today, during a signing ceremony, the president was asked about the funding battle.

[20:05:30]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, government funding. Can you take a quick question on government funding -- the pause?

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think this is appropriate time, really. I respect that, but I don't think it's appropriate. I can just tell you government is doing very well and we're cutting way back, but this is not the appropriate time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I'm joined now by anchor and chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins. So, how is the White House trying to explain all this tonight?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, it's been a bit difficult given they have officials going out publicly defending this memo, blaming the media, saying that they're the ones who are causing all the confusion. And that is perfectly clear what this memo stated and what it impacted.

But in reality, behind-the-scenes, the White House was flooded with calls from lawmakers, from state officials who had questions about what exactly this memo that came out Monday night was going to impact. And those questions did not stop, especially yesterday, as the Medicaid portals started to shut down and across the country, even though the White House came out and clarified in a memo about 24 hours after the release, initially of the first one, that Medicaid would not be affected.

And so, certainly behind-the-scenes, they have seen kind of the whiplash here of all of the responses, not just from lawmakers or Democrats who have been critical of this White House, but even Republicans questioning what was going to happen here. How long this pause in federal funding and trillions of dollars was going to go on for, and what that was going to look like?

And so, all of this culminated today when we got that two-sentence memo saying that they were rescinding this freeze. And then the White House press secretary came out after that saying that they were not rescinding the entire freeze, just the memo that caused a lot of the confusion.

Basically, what they were arguing, Anderson, is that some executive orders that Trump had signed wanting to get, you know, this woke ideology, as they're describing it out of the federal government. Those executive orders are staying in place. Nothing has happened to them.

But really, it was this memo that had the biggest impact and that caused the most confusion starting on Monday night. And now, it has been rescinded, and we have not heard any indications that they are going to reinstate it.

COOPER: And there was other news from the White House today. Two things, really, the president signed a memo directing the government to prepare the naval base at Guantanamo Bay to house tens of thousands of migrants. And he also settled a lawsuit against Mark Zuckerberg's Meta, essentially Zuckerberg's Meta is going to pay $25 million, some of it for lawyers' fees, but the bulk of it to go to the president's future presidential library. COLLINS: Yes and a lot of key things happening in front of the cameras and also behind the cameras, that executive order he announced earlier today when he was doing his first bill signing of his presidency. This time around, that was the Laken Riley Act. And on that executive order on Guantanamo Bay, he said that they are going to open up 30,000 beds at Guantanamo Bay for detained migrants.

We know bed space has been a really big issue. I've been talking to Tom Homan, his border czar about this, saying very clearly, they need more money from Congress because they need more money for these beds. Every time they detain someone, they have to put them somewhere, they're not just immediately deported. It's a real question of how long that's going to take and what it's going to look like.

It was an idea that the Biden White House explored, but never really pursued any further. But after, Anderson, when he was behind closed doors, we did learn that inside the Oval Office today, I'm told, Trump signed the settlement agreement with Meta.

Now, the reason he had sued Meta was because, remember, after January 6th, they kicked him off the platforms of Facebook, Instagram, he was also kicked off Twitter, and he filed a lot of lawsuits essentially saying that they were violating his right to free speech and censoring him by doing so. It wasn't clear how these lawsuits were going to do in court, or where they would have ended up, Anderson.

But what is clear is that Trump obviously won the 2024 election. We saw Mark Zuckerberg start going down to Mar-a-Lago. He had dinner with Trump in November, where I am told this lawsuit that was still pending was discussed between the two of them.

And now Trump has signed this agreement today, which basically says Meta will pay out $25 million, $22 million of that is going to go to his future presidential library. The rest is attorneys' fees and to the other plaintiffs here. But it is a really stark acknowledgment to see Meta making this decision.

They did not comment when I reached out on this reporting earlier, but it does say a lot that that they are choosing to settle this. And of course, it comes after he donated -- Meta did a million dollars to Trump's inauguration and Mark Zuckerberg, as we all saw, also attended it.

COOPER: And Amazon is paying a lot of money for a documentary about Melania Trump, right?

COLLINS: Yes, it's pretty remarkable to see, of course, as we've been watching all the tech leaders trying to ingratiate themselves, really, because they've been watching the one who's above all of them, Elon Musk, doing it. I mean, he has a badge to come to the White House whenever he wants. He has office space next door to the West Wing.

And so, we've seen how all of these tech leaders, people like Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg and others have certainly been surrounding themselves with Trump and his inner circle. And I think settling this lawsuit really does say a lot, obviously. [20:10:27]

COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins appreciate it. Next hour on "The Source", Kaitlan is going to be interviewing Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Our next guest right now is Illinois Democratic Governor J.B. Pritzker, who Tuesday called the presidents freeze illegal and a demonstration of cruelty against people who depend on us.

Governor, thanks for being with us. First of all, what do you make of the White House walking back the freeze today, albeit in confusing fashion again?

GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): I have to say that the last 48-hours have been the among the most bizarre and terrible since I took office back in the middle of Trump's first term. We saw, you know, not only the memo on Monday night, which caused massive confusion, and we had people up all night trying to decipher what exactly would that mean.

And the memo, remember, said nothing would really go into effect until the end of the next day. When we woke up on Tuesday morning and all the systems had been turned off. We could not get Medicaid reimbursements. We had homeless shelters and Head Start programs that during the day told us we might have to close our doors for good because we can't get reimbursements from the federal government.

Meals on Wheels, so many other programs and by the way, when you talk about Medicaid, we're talking about something that's billions of dollars to states. We in Illinois, I mean, we're talking about literally something on the order of $15 billion that we would lose if they cut and eliminate Medicaid.

So, these are all things that happened on Tuesday. And as you saw. well, by the midday or late day, the press secretary, you know, as you outlined at the beginning of the program, was saying, oh, no, the confusion is caused by the media and then they rescinded the memo, and then they reiterated the memo by saying, oh, no, it's really in the EO, which says nothing about freezing, but that is in fact what they intend.

Look, if you want to add it all up, if you ask me, this is Project 2025. They are trying to put this into effect. The president said he wasn't going to do that when he was running for office.

COOPER: He said he didn't know anything about it when he was running.

PRITZKER: Right, and then, by the way, he appointed a whole bunch of Project 2025 creators and contributors, many people who don't really understand government. And here they are, I think it was all demonstrated yesterday, a whole lot of disarray in our federal government, and they don't understand how they effectuate the things, you know, that that happen in our states with the funding they provide.

And by the way, you haven't heard anything about lowering the cost of living for people. Have the price of eggs gone down? Has gasoline prices -- have those gone down? No. In fact, they've done nothing on those fronts. And so, I don't, you know, I guess I fully understand. I was about to say I don't understand, I fully understand what they're doing. It was obvious from the start, but I think the American people started to see it yesterday, and they're the ones, along with Republican governors and Democratic governors, that I think led them to rescind that memo and rethink what they're doing.

COOPER: Yes, Governor Pritzker, I appreciate your time tonight, thank you.

I want to get perspective now from Republican former governor of New Hampshire Chris Sununu; Democratic former congressman Mondaire Jones; and journalist Gretchen Carlson. Governor, are you clear on what the White House is, is doing here? I mean, and how they've handled this?

CHRIS SUNUNU (R), FORMER NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR: Yes, look, I think the messaging was pretty bad. It wasn't handled right. But make no mistake, I understand that J.B. Pritzker doesn't really understand cutting spending and finding efficiencies because Illinois, from a fiscal perspective, is I think the technical term is dumpster fire.

But when I became governor, I had a hiring freeze. I stopped spending for 90 days until we got a hold on it.

But you've got to message it, right. You've got to explain what you're doing, what programs are exempt from that and clearly the White House did not do that very, very well. So, you know, granted, the messaging is bad, but this is nothing new. Governors do this kind of thing all the time to get a hold on the fiscal responsibility. You can't find efficiency in government. You can't find wasteful spending in government unless you're willing to say, we got to dig in and cut spending.

They just didn't message it very, very well. They pulled back, which is the right thing to do. My sense is they'll go forward in some fashion. They'll have the secretary of this department and that department go forward with, you know, halts on certain grant programs and whatever it is.

New spending coming out that that may have been reallocated or appropriated for future years, hopefully not, you know, start putting the brakes on too hard for existing programs. But make no mistake, this is nothing new. They just didn't go about it the right way.

COOPER: But it does sound like they were putting -- wanting to put the brakes on existing programs right away. I mean, you heard people talking about Meals on Wheels, things that affect people, homeless shelters, according to the governor were concerned about staying open.

[20:15:24]

SUNUNU: Yes, but again, they didn't message it very well, but they were very clear in trying to re-message those public support programs were never supposed to be -- the Medicaid programs, the Meals on Wheels, the SNAP, that was never intended. And that's really their biggest folly, right? Because they should have been super clear about the public service programs that that they didn't want to touch and exempt from it.

It was just badly messaged and so, again, this is this is not going to end. They're going to keep reviewing these programs and hopefully be a little more surgical about how they go about it.

COOPER: Congressman, was this a messaging issue?

MONDAIRE JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, it's a policy blunder and I'm glad that the administration has at least talked about walking back its error. But then you had the press secretary say, "No, no, no, even though we rescinded the OMB memo, nothing has changed from what the executive orders have articulated."

So, I think it was appropriate for the judge today to say, given all of this continued confusion, we are going to issue a government wide restraining order until this White House figures out how to do its job, which is, yes, to communicate what it's doing, but also to explain on a policy level what it wants to do in terms of these cuts that it is talking about.

This is this is going to be an ongoing problem and Democrats, by the way, have to be responding much more quickly than what we've seen in Congress, for example, where only today was a so-called emergency meeting held to discuss how to respond to this. This was a decision that was announced late Monday night.

You've got to be responding to this stuff in real time, because what you're going to continue to see is chaos, which has a direct impact on the lives of the American people.

You talked about funding for cancer. There are members of Congress who got their earmarks, otherwise known as community project funding, for health care to, you know, to fill potholes, any number of things.

I spoke to a former member of Congress who said that her former constituent was supposed to be going through an NIH clinical trial. The former constituent is a 26-year-old who has cancer and couldn't even go to get treatment at MD Anderson. As a result of this chaotic rollout of a horrible policy.

COOPER: Gretchen, it's interesting because, I mean, there was a lot of talk before the administration came in that, you know, this time they've had time to prepare. They know how government works much more, and it's going to be much more streamlined. And perhaps it has been, but obviously, Democrats look at this as, you know, as a major screw up.

GRETCHEN CARLSON, JOURNALIST: Well, Anderson, let's be clear. I totally believe that the Trump administration knew exactly what they were doing, with all due respect to what both governors just said, this was a complete test of power. Look, the executive orders were only supposed to be asking questions of these federal agencies about gender identity and DEI.

This went way further when it took out Medicaid and Meals on Wheels. And so, you have to ask yourself, how far did this administration think that they could go until America actually was still alive and said, "No, this is not acceptable."

COOPER: All right, everybody, I appreciate it. I want to talk about Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s confirmation hearings today. It got combative as he confronted with his past controversial statements on vaccines, AIDS, antidepressants and more. We're going to play some of those moments and I'll speak with an emergency physician about whether Kennedy should be in charge of public health in America.

Also, retired four-star General Mark Milley, still under threat from Iran, is without his security detail tonight, part of President Trump's retribution against him and it doesn't stop there. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:23:14]

COOPER: A combative first day of hearings for an unprecedented nominee. Today, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., who has a lengthy history of inflammatory disproven claims about the efficacy of vaccines and even questioned whether HIV causes AIDS, could soon become the top health official in the land, overseeing a staff of more than 80,000 people.

His prospects unclear tonight, but as our doctor, Sanjay Gupta, said earlier today, Kennedy is applying to be the, "CEO" of the largest health enterprise in the world.

Democratic senators spent much of the day questioning him on his own controversial opinions and past statements.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): Did you say that Lyme disease is highly likely a materially engineered bioweapon? I made sure I put in the highly likely. Did you say Lyme disease is a highly likely militarily engineered bioweapon?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. US HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY NOMINEE: I probably did say that.

BENNET: Did you say that --

KENNEDY: That's what the developer of --

BENNET: Okay, I want all of our colleagues to hear it Mr. Kennedy, I want them to hear it. You said yes. Did you say that exposure to pesticides causes children to become transgender?

KENNEDY: No, I never said that. Okay, I have the record that I'll give to the chairman, and he can make his judgment about what you said.

Did you write in your book and it's undeniable that African AIDS is an entirely different disease from Western AIDS? Yes or no, Mr. Kennedy?

KENNEDY: I'm not sure if I made that --

BENNET: Okay, I'll give it to the chairman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, at one point, Independent Senator Bernie Sanders showed Kennedy and those in the hearing room, these two pictures, they are onesies sold by an organization founded by Kennedy, of which he was chairman as recently as December when he resigned. They showed two baby onesies. The one on the left is labeled "Unvaxed, Unafraid", the other, "No Vax, No Problem". They retail for $25.99 apiece. Here's Senator Sanders.

[20:25:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Can you tell us now that you will, now that you are pro-vaccine, that you're going to have your organization take these products off the market?

KENNEDY: Senator, I have no power over that organization. I'm not part of it. I resigned from the board.

SANDERS: That was just a few months ago. You founded that? You certainly have power. You can make that call. Are you supportive of this?

KENNEDY: I've had nothing to do with the --

SANDERS: Are you supportive of these onesies?

KENNEDY: I'm supportive of vaccines.

SANDERS: Are you supportive of these clothing, which is militantly anti-vaccine?

KENNEDY: I am supportive of vaccines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, Kennedy was also questioned about comments he's made tying school shootings to anti-depressants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TINA SMITH (D-MN): So, do you believe, as you've said, that antidepressants cause school shootings? This should be a simple question.

KENNEDY: I don't think anybody can answer that question. And I didn't answer that question, I said it should be studied along with other potential culprits --

SMITH: So your answer is -- so they may cause --

KENNEDY: -- social media, but I don't know, I would never make -- because there is no science on that. SMITH: The science shows that there is no link between school shootings and antidepressants, and in fact, most school shooters were not even treated with antidepressants. And of those that were, there was no evidence of association.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: So, that was some of what played out today. But we also want to get to the practical, namely, what would it mean for health care professionals if Robert Kennedy did indeed take the helm of health care policy in America?

For that, I'm joined by Dr. Craig Spencer, an emergency room physician and professor at Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Spencer, good to talk to you again.

As an ER doctor, were you satisfied with those answers from RFK Jr. in the hearing today? What is your concern about him, if any?

DR. CRAIG SPENCER, EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY: You know, I listened to all three-and-a-half hours of testimony today, and I came in as a skeptic, to be sure, but I left even more concerned. Now, I first want to say that there are things that RFK, Jr. points out that are correct. I say this as a physician and as a public health professional. The food supply in this country is disastrous, and it needs a rehaul.

Pharmaceutical companies have a lot of power and medications in this country are unaffordable for so many people and we do need to reframe how we think about disease, shift more towards prevention and management of chronic diseases.

All of those things, I think he's right on. The problem is, the risk versus benefit here just doesn't add up. And what I heard from him today is trying to evade things that he has said for the past few decades.

He has continued to support unproven therapies for COVID 19, for example, like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine despite the overwhelming evidence saying that those are not effective.

He's continued to insist the linkage between vaccines and autism. Again, despite a broad body of evidence saying that this is not true.

I'm concerned about his ability to run the advisory committee on immunization practices at the CDC, which he would do in this role. And that committee is who determines what vaccines we use for infectious diseases in the US.

He's denied HIV as the cause of AIDS, and I'm concerned about the global impacts for everyone around the world that relies on the CDC and the FDA as the gold standard for responding to disease outbreaks and making sure medications are safe. If he is in this position, we will all be a lot less safe.

COOPER: He tried to downplay his anti-vaccine comments in the past, and I just want to play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: News reports have claimed that I am anti-vaccine or anti- industry. I am neither. I believe that my that -- the vaccines play a critical role in health care. All of my kids are vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: He's tried to undermine vaccines for years, though. In a 2020 interview, he said he would give anything to go back in time and not vaccinate his children.

SPENCER: Absolutely, and as we've seen over the past week, when people tell you who they are, believe them. Despite what he said today, we know what he said over the past two decades, over the past two years, even over the past two months.

We all have concerns about what he has said and what he has linked and said about the vaccines, including COVID vaccines, other vaccines that I give my children that I recommend to other children and that have saved more lives than any other public health intervention in history.

My concern here is that he's saying he's for safety. Well guess what? So am I. I give these vaccines to my kids. I give these vaccines to other children. I want to make sure that we have the safety. We have regulatory bodies to do that.

The problem is, is that he's saying that he wants to be in charge of this, and he would at $1.8 trillion, he would control so much of our economy, our health care infrastructure, and we can't have someone in that role that does not believe in the life-saving potential of one of public health's greatest inventions.

COOPER: I want to ask you, you famously survived Ebola, This idea of cutting off all contact with the World Health Organization and ending PEPFAR, which has saved the lives of more than 20 million people infected with HIV, which does cause AIDS if untreated. What do you make of that? What would the impact of that be?

SPENCER: Let me be very clear. This is pure stupidity. As someone that has worked around the world battling disease outbreaks from Ebola, Hepatitis C, many others, I've seen the relationships that we've had. The CDC with the WHO, I've seen what -- where we benefit from having eyes on the ground and having those relationships.

[20:30:36]

At this point, our CDC folks can't talk to WHO folks about a Marburg outbreak in Tanzania, about a possible Ebola outbreak in the D.R. Congo, about what's happening with Mpox in countries around the world. We're not able to do that.

Getting rid of these programs, getting rid of those relationships, cutting things like PEPFAR, which Marco Rubio has stood up for, which Jay Bhattacharya, the nominee for the NIH, has stood up for, which has had broad bipartisan support in the 22 years that it has existed and has saved 25 million lives, this is just pure stupidity and people will die, and it will put us all in more danger.

COOPER: Yeah. I mean, a lot of these diseases are plane flight away from the United States, as you well know.

SPENCER: Absolutely.

COOPER: Yeah.

SPENCER: But, what we're seeing now, is we're seeing an externalization of the threats. We're saying that diseases come from other places and we're going to put up a wall to block them out. I have bad news. We've seen time and time again that that does not work.

COOPER: Yeah.

SPENCER: It will not work here, and we will regret it, I promise.

COOPER: Dr. Craig Spencer, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

Coming up next, President Trump has already revoked security details from former officials who criticized him. Now, he's apparently punishing General Mark Milley, eliminating his security and the new Defense Secretary, fresh from Fox News, is launching an investigation into Milley. Also, what to expect when President Trump's pick to lead the FBI heads to Capitol Hill tomorrow, we'll take a look at what Kash Patel has said already.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:45]

COOPER: President Trump's retribution against his perceived political enemies continues, first, our General Mark Milley, who was Joint Chiefs Chairman under President Trump and who is still under threat from Iran, is the latest former government official to have his security detail pulled by the president. Now, the general also lost his security clearance. And Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, directed the department's Inspector General to launch an investigation into Milley's conduct, which could result in a loss of rank.

All of this because the general dared criticized the president after he left office. Joining me now is Retired General and Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, Wesley Clark. How dangerous do you think is this decision to remove the security protection, and what kind of a message do you think this investigation sends to anybody else in the chain of command?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It's a really chilling message, Anderson. And first of all, it's -- pulling that security detail puts General Milley and his family at risk, at risk for actions that President Trump himself approved. And so, that's wrong. Apparently, there's an active threat environment against him and as long as that threat is active, he should have security protection. He was honorably retired by the Congress with his current rank. He served two Democratic presidents, one Republican president. He is probably the outstanding military officer of his generation. He represented the warrior spirit. His main effort as Chief of Staff of the Army was to improve soldier lethality. And he's the guy who changed the PT standard, so soldiers had to be more physically fit, more combat ready. So, he was a -- he's the epitome of the warrior leader that men and women in the Army respected.

So when this kind of an investigation is open, this kind of controversy emerges, it has a terrible effect on the men and women in uniform. They don't know what to think about it. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is, he is by law the principal military adviser to the Secretary of Defense, the President and the Congress of the United States. He takes oath of loyalty to the Constitution of the United States.

He's entirely different from, let's say, the Director of OMB or the Commerce Secretary. These are political appointees that the president puts in and removes at his pleasure. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff is there to provide non-political military advice and General Milley did that to the best of his ability, made some tough decisions. He went against political leadership in several occasions. He is everything that the U.S. Armed Forces --

COOPER: Yeah.

CLARK: -- was proud of and (inaudible). So this is a real, real (inaudible) moment.

COOPER: Have you ever heard of a, I mean, a general at his rank, of his -- with his record, who is honorably retired, losing a star in retirement?

CLARK: Not to my knowledge. We've never called someone back from retirement to -- he's already been investigated once, Anderson. There was an IG investigation run at the request of a Senator while he was still on active duty. And Inspector General looked at it, he said he has done his duty. There's nothing here. So, I hope that somehow the Trump administration will relook this and pull this back because we're very proud of the men and women in uniform.

They're very non-political. They serve whoever is in office regardless of partisanship. They give their best advice, they do it, and they risk their lives and their family's lives and welfare in doing it.

COOPER: Yeah.

CLARK: So, this is a very important moment in American civil military relations and in the history of the U.S. Armed Forces.

COOPER: Yeah. General Wesley Clark, appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up next, Kash Patel, who built a political brand on attacking the intelligence community, he's now been tapped to lead the FBI. We'll look at what he has said over the years with his confirmation hearing set for tomorrow. Also had American volunteer soldiers fighting on the frontlines in Ukraine and missing in action, a report from the front.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:44:05]

COOPER: Tomorrow, two more controversial Trump cabinet nominees will face a grilling on Capitol Hill, Tulsi Gabbard for Direct of National Intelligence and Kash Patel to lead the FBI More than any other nominee in recent memory, Patel has expressed hostility toward the bureau. He frequently criticizes the so-called deep state in podcast appearances and has made attacks on the intelligence community, hallmark of his political brand. Randi Kaye tonight has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KASH PATEL, FORMER ADVISER, TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: President Trump gets his home raided on a bogus WhatsApp warrant, which the FBI leaks to the media, and they go in there and they stage that photo display and everybody's like, oh my God, look at all this classified materials.

RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That was Kash Patel, President Donald Trump's nominee for FBI Director on a podcast called the "Shawn Ryan Show" in September last year. Patel's podcast appearances have a common theme, retribution for the so-called deep state.

[20:45:00]

PATEL: The mob in government is worse than the mob that Whitey Bulger ran. That we have to explain there's a deep state. I think there's a lot of rule and law breaking, and I don't know that it ever gets to the level of treason singularly with any of them. But what you have is a buildup of so many actions by the deep state that it becomes borderline treasonous.

KAYE (voice-over): The targets of his retribution, anyone he believes participated in what he calls 'Russia gate,' like the FBI and members of the deep state, who he says fabricated a Trump-Russia scandal during the 2016 election only to sabotage Trump.

PATEL: Everybody that participated in FBI, excuse me, at DOJ in Russia gate, all these people have clearances. They all still have clearances. Gone. Same thing at CIA. Same thing at DOD. Same thing at NSA. I mean, the list will be massive.

KAYE: And Inspector General later found no political bias in the FBI probe.

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Kash Patel is in the House --

KAYE (voice-over): Patel is a regular on Steve Bannon's War Room podcast and a frequent guest host, one of his favorite topics, what Patel calls the two-tiered system of justice.

PATEL: They are creating a two-tier system of justice. That is the theme we have to run on to destroy. The two-tier system of justice whether it's the FBI or Congress or the Jan 6 Committee, or DOJ, or the Intel folks in Hunter Biden's letter, they have bifurcated the system of justice in this country to weaponize it against people who pull the levers on voting day a certain way.

KAYE (voice-over): Over and over, Patel suggests the political system is corrupt and often pushes the false narrative that elections are rigged.

PATEL: But it's not right-wing conspiracy anymore. You have a federal district court judge issue a ruling in federal court that says that the FBI basically participated in censorship with big tech to rig presidential elections.

KAYE (voice-over): In this podcast, before Mark Zuckerberg ended fact- checking on Meta platforms, Patel accused Zuckerberg of censoring posts and attempting to rig this most recent election.

PATEL: They're in on it with the mainstream media, the Biden-Harris- Walz campaign and, of course, the FBI, to do one thing, to get as many votes as they possibly can, legal or illegal, to censor the truth from you no matter what the cost it is to your liberty and our constitution, just so they collectively rig the system and say, we have won the presidency of the United States.

KAYE (voice-over): Patel appears to be keeping track of so-called enemies that are part of the deep state. They include members of the media who he says spread election falsehoods.

PATEL: We're going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections, we're going to come after you, whether it's criminally or civilly, we'll figure that out. But yeah, we're putting you all on notice.

KAYE (voice-over): And what about the famed FBI headquarters in D.C.?

PATEL: I'd shut down the FBI Hoover Building on day one and reopening it the next day as a Museum of the Deep State. And I'd take the 7,000 employees that work in that building and send them across America to chase down criminals. Go be cops.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Randi Kaye joins us now. His hearing is tomorrow. Has he explained some of these past statements or --

KAYE (on camera): Not to us, Anderson. We reached out. I called, I emailed a representative for Kash Patel seeking a comment. I asked if he wanted to clarify any of those remarks or explain them any further. I did not get any response from Patel or his representative. But looking ahead to that hearing, Anderson, that you mentioned, there's no doubt he's going to be asked about what he considers government gangsters. That's the title of his book.

And in that book in Appendix B, there's about 60 names. There's a list and he says that's not an exhaustive list. He says that there are others that he calls corrupt actors that should be also part of that list. He also says the list doesn't include the entire fake news Mafia Press Corps. That's a direct quote. So Anderson, I'm sure he'll be asked about those government gangsters and also how he plans to punish those if he is indeed confirmed as FBI Director, Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Randi Kaye, thanks very much. We have a video coming up of American volunteer fighters on the frontlines in Ukraine, as more of them are killed and go missing. Here, how some of their families are being targeted by Russian trolls as they try to get them home for burial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:53:54]

COOPER: President Trump vowed that on day one in office, he would end the war in Ukraine. That didn't happen. Now, he has given his special envoy a hundred days to find a solution. Next month will mark three years since Russia's invasion. Almost since the start, American volunteers have been on the frontlines, fighting for Ukraine, and there's no exact count of how many. But the number of Americans killed and missing in action is growing. Some of their families find themselves targeted as they do whatever they can to try to get their loved one home for a proper burial. Nick Paton Walsh reports from Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice- over): America isn't sure it wants this war anymore, but some are still fighting it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move, move, move.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): This rare footage move of American volunteers in combat, who are increasingly dying and missing an action. At least 20 now MIA, five cases in just the last six months as they're used to urgently plug holes in Ukraine's defenses. Fierce fighting has raged around Pokrovsk in the east for months. In the horrific web of bunker defenses there, a three-man American team were pinned down after their mission to blow up a bridge fell apart in September.

[20:55:00]

Only one American survived, call sign 'Redneck'.

REDNECK, AMERICAN WHO FOUGHT IN UKRAINE: Artillery kicks in bright and early before the sun is even up, and then followed by two helicopters coming in, attacking us with rockets, and then a boatload of drones and the radios screaming at us, prepare to fight, prepare to fight, prepare to fight. PATON WALSH (voice-over): Russian footage shows the intense fight back then. A drone strike hit two of the three Americans, one died of his injuries quickly, but the third, Zachary Ford, seen here seemed to have been stabilized. Yet another attack was coming.

REDNECK: We weren't going to make it through another attack, so he started asking me to kill him so he wouldn't be captured. I refused. And then he called me over a couple minutes later, told me he loosened his tourniquets.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Ford was quickly dying from the blood loss.

REDNECK: He wanted to see the sun, so I laid him down with his head towards the door, so he could look out and see the sun. And I just held his hand. Where (ph) he looked at me and he said, "Never let it be said that the bastards killed me."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In order to pay the tribute to the warriors, the fathers, or the people of Ukraine.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): The bodies of other fallen Americans have endured a public distressing fate, most are veterans, some keen to use their experience, others to help Ukraine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was respected and loved by everyone.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Honored here in Kyiv, former U.S. Marine, Corey Nawrocki, who was killed in Bryansk, Russia in October alongside another American. Their bodies were posted on social media and even Corey's mother trolled online before lengthy negotiations returned their remains to Ukraine Friday.

SANDY NAWROCKI, MOTHER OF DECEASED U.S. MARINE: Oh, gosh. A whirlwind of emotions like relief, but sadness. It's almost like a weight has been lifted off my shoulder because, sorry, because now, I don't have to worry about what I think they might be doing to him over there.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): But pro-Russian trials didn't just post images of Corey's body.

NAWROCKI: They had posted a picture of my house, my full address. They would post all these nasty comments and smiley faces and stuff like that.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): Texan Lauren Gyome (ph) helps identify dead foreigners, often through a gruesome t trawl of morgues. She said foreigners are increasingly used in the toughest spots to fill urgent gaps in Ukrainian manpower.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has increased dramatically in the past six months, and most of that is missing-in-action cases. We find that foreign operators do fill the gaps of very difficult, high-risk, high- reward operations. We think it is a reflection of how the battlefield looks right now.

PATON WALSH: Drones, artillery, impossible to get the bodies back. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): One of her first missions was getting Cedric Hamm, a veteran from Texas, home. He died in Sumy region, was sent home with honors in Kyiv, and found through his tattoos. His mother reads his old text messages.

RAQUEL HAMM, MOTHER OF DECEASED U.S. FIGHTER: I met people whose homes were blown up. I met people whose women were raped in front of them. I think God understands I'm doing a good thing. And that was my greatest fear, that my son was going to be used as a symbol of hate because here he was as a foreign fighter helping Ukraine. And I'm just -- was so overwhelmed with joy that my son was located, that we were not going to have to wonder.

PATON WALSH: What do you remember as being the darkest moment for you?

HAMM: Knowing he's not going to be around, pretty much that.

PATON WALSH: I'm so sorry.

HAMM: It's OK. It's just he was super funny and like, could do anything and everything that I asked him to do. Very good son.

PATON WALSH (voice-over): A war so much of America feels distant to, here, so very close to home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PATON WALSH (on camera): And as soon as we said, so many of these military veterans (inaudible) miss soldiering. Some urgently want to use their experience to help Ukraine. But what's been startling in reporting this story is to hear of the ghastly circumstances on the battlefield in which bodies and sometimes the injured even are abandoned, cannot be evacuated.

The drones, the artillery, the intensity of the conflict, but also too, how so many of these foreigners seem to be being deployed to the hotspots of the frontline to urgently make up holes in Ukraine's manpower, startling shortages in infantry we constantly hear about. And that's really, I think, playing to Russia's advantage here, Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Nick, Paton Walsh, be careful. Thank you. That's it for us. The news continues. We'll see you tomorrow. "The Source" with Kaitlan Collins starts now.