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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Acting US Attorney in New York, 5 Others Quit After Being Told to Drop Adams Case; Trump: "I Don't See Any Way" That A Country in Russia's Position Could Allow Ukraine to Join NATO; Trump Attacks McConnell's Mental Capacity; Casts Doubt On Childhood Polio Case; McConnell Has Voted Against 3 Of Trump's Cabinet Nominees-More Than Any Other Republican; Senate Confirms RFK Jr. As HHS Secretary, A Victory For Trump Amid Controversy Over Kennedy's Views On Vaccines; When Will Two Astronauts On The International Space Station Since June Be Able To Come Home?; NASA Astronauts On ISS Talk About Their Families. Aired: 8-9p ET
Aired February 13, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: ... approval ratings, look at this, minus 39 points. I lined up a slew of different politicians nationwide. Mitch McConnell is by far the least popular and look at Donald Trump all the way on the other side of that ledger plus three. Donald Trump, a lot more liked by the American public than Mitch McConnell is.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Harry Enten, thank you very much and thanks as always to all of you. AC360 with Anderson starts now.
[20:00:28]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, stunning high level resignations from Department of Justice, six attorneys involved in the prosecution of New York's Mayor Eric Adams resign after bosses of the department ordered corruption charges against the mayor dropped.
Also tonight, the president asked what if anything Russia should give up to end the war they started in Ukraine and he doesn't come up with a single sacrifice Moscow should make. And later they thought it was going to be a short trip into space but they've now been on the International Space Station since June.
Tonight my fascinating and fun conversation from space with the astronaut, Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore, just how much longer will they be up there?
Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with the breaking news: Today's resignations from the Department of Justice after being ordered to drop corruption charges against New York Mayor Eric Adams.
Quitting today, Danielle Sassoon acting US Attorney for New York's Southern District. Also stepping down. John Keller, acting head of the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section and Deputy Assistant Attorney General Kevin Driscoll, the department's top career prosecutor.
Then this evening, we learned from sources that as many as three additional public integrity prosecutors also quit.
All of this follows what happened just three days ago, when the new Acting Deputy Attorney General, Emil Bove, a former attorney for President Trump, ordered Danielle Sassoon to dismiss the charges against Adams. Bove's memo to Sassoon laying it out raised eyebrows in that he said the DOJ reached its determination, "without assessing the strength of the evidence."
Now, instead, Bove said that the case, which was supposed to go to trial this spring, would have distracted the New York mayor, Mayor Adams from supporting the federal government's crackdown on migrants.
Now, on this broadcast Monday night Law Professor Jessica Roth paraphrased the argument that Bove was making.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA ROTH, PROFESSOR OF LAW AT CARDOZO SCHOOL OF LAW: It's because we want Mayor Adams to be able to pursue the president's immigration policies unfettered by worrying about this prosecution, and also because we think that the prosecution itself was in some ways politically tainted when it was brought from the outset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, Roth went on to call that highly unusual. But tonight, the resignation letter by Danielle Sassoon goes further, and it is blistering. Quoting now, "Adams has argued in substance, and Mr. Bove appears prepared to concede that Adams should receive leniency for federal crimes solely because he occupies an important public position and can use that position to assist in the administration's policy priorities."
What's more, she recounts a meeting at which she suggests that Bove did not want anyone having a record of what was actually discussed. Quoting again from her letter, "Adams' attorneys repeatedly urged what amounted to a quid pro quo, indicating that Adams would be in a position to assist with the department's enforcement priorities only if the indictment were dismissed. Mr. Bove admonished a member of my team who took notes during that meeting and directed the collection of those notes at the meeting's conclusion."
So, it seems like they confiscated the attorneys notes, that wasn't the only bombshell from Sassoon, who, we should note, has some very conservative credentials. She's listed as a contributor to the conservative "Federalist Society," and she clerked for the late Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. So it's hard to paint her as some sort of Deep State stooge and she is relatively new to the job. She isn't some Biden era agent hiding out in the DOJ.
As for the bombshell, she reveals they were going to have further charges against Mayor Adams. She writes, "As you know, our office is prepared to seek a superseding indictment from a new grand jury under my leadership. We proposed a superseding indictment that would add an obstruction conspiracy count based on evidence that Adams destroyed and instructed others to destroy evidence and provide false information to the FBI."
Late today, the president was asked about it at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Did you personally request the Justice Department to drop that case?
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I didn't. I know nothing about it. I did not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The president was talking to CNN's Kevin Liptak a few moments later, responding to someone else's question. He turned back to Kevin and added this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: That US Attorney was actually fired. I don't know if he or she resigned, but that US Attorney was fired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, two sources familiar with the matter tell CNN that Emil Bove had plans to fire her, but she quit first. Did the president order her firing? That is certainly another question to ask him.
In any event, the president certainly knew about the Adams case, was sympathetic to the mayor, and certainly made it clear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know what it's like to be persecuted by the DOJ for speaking out against open borders. We were persecuted, Eric. I was persecuted, and so are you, Eric.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:02]
COOPER: Emil Bove responded to Sassoon today, saying he's put attorneys who worked the case on leave. Mayor Adam's attorney weighed in, denying any quid pro quo and saying, "We offered nothing and the department asked nothing of us."
As for the mayor, who made a pilgrimage last month to Mar-a-Lago and conspicuously attended the Inauguration two days later, he met today with ICE Director Tom Homan and promised to use his executive power to allow ICE officers to return to the city's jail on Riker's island and increase cooperation between local law enforcement and federal immigration agencies.
So, lots to talk about with us tonight CNN chief law enforcement intelligence analyst John Miller; CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig, who served as a federal prosecutor with the southern district; and CNN's Kara Scannell; and former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe.
Kara, let's talk a little bit more about what Danielle Sassoon said in her letter to Emil Bove.
KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT. Well, I mean, as you laid out, she's very transparent about what happened in those meetings. So, she's making the public record here about what transpired and sort of the pressure that she was under and just what Bove was doing without even her input.
COOPER: It's a very detailed like, I think six pages or eight pages, right?
SCANNELL: It's an eight-page letter, very single spaced, a lot of detailed information in there. But she writes in there, "It is a breathtaking and dangerous precedent to reward Adams' opportunistic and shifting commitments on immigration and other policy matters with dismissal of a criminal indictment."
She actually says that this amplifies the argument of the weaponization of the Justice Department by playing favors for people that they like, who are in line with their politics.
COOPER: She's essentially suggesting that it's the Trump Department of Justice which is now weaponizing.
SCANNELL: Right, and saying that, you know, she still stands behind this. She dispels that the prior US attorney was motivated, saying this investigation began before him and that they followed all the proper channels. They went through DOJ to get sign off from higher levels within main Justice in order to do that.
I mean, she also lays out what is going to be potentially some issues here, which she says could be embarrassing for the department because they have to bring this whoever. Ultimately, if its Bove himself or if he gets someone else to write a motion to dismiss to the judge, and the judge is not likely to rubber stamp this, he's going to want more information, because this is not based has been transparent on the legal arguments and the legal merits of the case.
But really about the political use that Donald Trump hopes to gain from staying in with Eric Adams and even pointing out that one issue here is that its improper for a prosecutor to hold something over someone's head and to hold a criminal indictment over Eric Adams, and to see if he does comply with what Trump wants, saying as Bove directed that this would be dismissed now, but could potentially come back later after the November election.
COOPER: It's like a Sword of Damocles over Eric Adams if he if he does something the Trump administration doesn't like, they can just bring back the charges. Elie, I mean, it was remarkable three days ago when we learned that the charges had been dropped or were supposed to be dropped. This is stunning.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, we're way beyond unusual here. This is thoroughly unprecedented. I mean, we've never seen anything like this. And what's so unusual here? I mean, this is what happens when politics infects prosecution. And what jumps out to me is this detail, the political motive here, it is not even disguised. It is explicit.
And to put a point on it, what Emil Bove says in his letter to the Southern District of New York is, the reason we need to dismiss this case, as Kara said, is so that Mayor Adams can continue to support our immigration agenda.
Well, what if Eric Adams had said, I'm actually not on board with the immigration agenda? By Emil Bove's logic, then no dismissal in that case. And so, this is what Danielle Sassoon means in her letter when she says it's a quid pro quo. The exchange is right out there. Its overt and its overtly political. It's the worst thing that can happen to DOJ.
COOPER: So, what happens now? Do they -- does Emil Bove and the Department of Justice in DC just hire somebody else who will sign these documents?
HONIG: This is not over, because, as Kara said, DOJ has to find somebody. They'll find somebody, there's 6,000 prosecutors. Bove himself will sign it, but DOJ has to submit a paper to the court saying we want to dismiss. Here's why, but then the judge has to sign off.
I'm telling you right now, a judge is not going to sign off on this. I don't -- I'm not big on predictions. There's no way a judge signs off on this. Then you get into a situation. What happens? Because DOJ is going to say, all right, judge, but we're not sending anyone to prosecute the case. So, it's going to be a showdown ahead on this.
COOPER: John Miller, I mean have you seen anything like this recently or in recent decades?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I don't know what -- I mean, you'd have to go back to, you know, the Saturday night massacre of Watergate, where Nixon ordered the firing of the Watergate prosecutor and the attorney general wouldn't do it so he was fired and the deputy attorney general. And so, it went till they found Robert Bork, the solicitor general, who said, I'll fire him.
But I mean, this in an ongoing criminal matter and a public corruption case. Here's the --
COOPER: I mean, it's a high profile involving the mayor of New York.
MILLER: Here's the thing, though. It's the personality factor here that gets me. When I was in the New York City Police Department running the NYPD, half of the JTTF.
COOPER: The Joint Terrorism Task Force.
[20:10:06]
MILLER: The Joint Terrorism Task Force, we picked up the January 6th cases. The head of the National Security branch in the US Attorney's Office was Emil Bove. And when we needed search warrants, we went over there. When we needed subpoenas, we went over there when we needed preservation orders.
All the legal process we needed and what we got from Emil Bove at the time was, you know, we need more cases. You know, we've got to pick up the pace here. We've got to get these guys.
So how you go from that guy to Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer in the Manhattan DA's case to deputy attorney general in an acting capacity, where he is now behind firing -- the move to do a mass firing of the same FBI agents he was directing on the January 6th case as the chief.
COOPER: I hadn't realized he was directing January 6th cases.
MILLER: Yes. He packaged up all of those investigations and sent them to the US attorney in Washington but all the process we got to do that was directed by him. So now, you see him, you know, on the other side of that coin and trying to shut down a case from his own old alma mater, the Southern District of New York, where he was a chief under a US attorney, where they did cases like this.
It's such a complete reversal that it's a little bit of a shock to the system of former and current federal prosecutors who say, we don't do that.
COOPER: Andrew, have you heard cases where the acting attorney general tells an attorney from the Justice Department to not take notes and actually, like, takes their notes?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, no and in any reasonable world, that does not happen. Very sensitive meetings take place at the Department of Justice every day on National Security matters. Sometimes on matters where people in high level, white-collar cases, maybe political corruption cases come in with their attorneys and they make kind of a final pitch to DOJ to avoid getting indicted or something like that.
Notes are taken, notes are retained, there's nothing -- it would be insanely irregular for a senior Justice Department person to say, okay, give me everybody's notes before you leave room. That's like an organized crime meeting, right? Nobody wants to leave any evidence behind. But to be clear, what is happening here is not just politicization or weaponization. We use that word a lot lately. This is corruption. This is corrupt at its core.
They are trying to use the levers of the criminal justice system to achieve a political result. It doesn't get any more corrupt than this. COOPER: What is specifically the corruption?
MCCABE: The corruption is using what they have control of with the Department of Justice controls is the criminal justice system right? Who gets indicted? How they get tried, how strong those cases are. They are taking that system which they are obligated to use for the public benefit, and using it instead to achieve some corollary political result, in this case, immigration enforcement, that is, immigration enforcement and your willingness or ability to engage in it has nothing to do with the case that the grand jury indicted.
They indicted the case based on the facts that were presented to them and the law. And the way those two things are applied and now the case goes forward. The mayor has every opportunity to present a detailed, full throated defense of himself at trial, that's how the process works. They have completely derailed the process here and demanded the dismissal of this indictment to achieve a political result completely outside the system. It's outrageous on any count.
COOPER: I've got to say, Kara, I mean, I'm no lawyer, but I read Sassoon's eight-page letter and it's very convincing and also, she comes off seeming very responsible and ethical. I mean, she's relatively new to this job. It's not like she wanted to get out of here or she's some old holdover who's been there for 40 years. Is she in trouble? Like, can she -- is there some -- can she be?
SCANNELL: I don't think so. I mean, she's left the department. What Bove has done is put the members of the team, the line prosecutors on administrative leave, saying that he's going to have them investigated under the auspices of the Office of Professional Responsibility and which could ultimately, depending on the recommendation, result in their termination. But I don't see what recourse they really have against her personally. I mean, she does have the conservative credentials that they would have expected her to perhaps follow in line, but she's also saying that she has these credentials because she's following the rule of the law.
HONIG: That's what I found so chilling about Emil Bove's response, when she pushed back in that eight-page letter. And this goes to your point before, John, the response was, well, now everyone around you is fired too. And were going to investigate all of you not criminally, but internally within DOJ. I mean, that's a very serious thing. And if we look big picture over what's happened in the first not even month of this new DOJ.
[20:15:10]
Okay, let's take the lesson here. All the January 6th rioters have been pardoned. Eric Adams has gotten out of this case for explicitly political reasons. That's on one hand. On the other hand, all the January 6th, all the Jack Smith prosecutors have been fired. A lot of the January 6th prosecutors, not Emil Bove, but all the other ones, a lot of them had been fired.
So the message is as clear as can be. We're going to reward you or punish you for your political views with the prosecutorial might of the Justice Department that goes against everything that's written on that door at the DOJ building.
COOPER: Elie Honig, Kara Scannell, John Miller. Thank you, Andrew McCabe as well.
Coming up next, more breaking news which will likely please Vladimir Putin. The president when pressed, cannot come up with a single sacrifice that Putin should make to end the war in Ukraine.
Later, the president takes fresh aim at fellow Republican Mitch McConnell, the only Republican who voted against RFK JR. For HHS secretary. Trump questioned McConnell's mental fitness and if he ever actually had polio as a child.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: More breaking news today, after President Trump suggest it was unlikely, Ukraine would get back Territory lost in the war. He once again parroted Russia's rationale for the war that Ukraine wanted to join NATO, effectively ceding ground before stated desire for peace negotiations could even start.
[20:20:12]
Now, earlier tonight, he was also asked in response of what should Russia give up?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: You have suggested, with regards to the Russia-Ukraine War, you've suggested several things that Ukraine should give up the idea of NATO membership, territory that was seized back 2014 by Russia. What should we give up?
TRUMP: Russia has gotten himself into something that I think they wish they didn't. If I were president, it would not have happened. But as far as the negotiation, it's too early to say what's going to happen. Maybe, Russia will give up a lot. Maybe they won't. And it's all dependent on what is going to happen.
The negotiation really hasn't started. But I will say as far as NATO is concerned, from many years before President Putin, I will tell you that I have heard that Russia would never accept that. And I think Ukraine knew that because Ukraine wasn't then and never requested to be until more recently. So, that's the way it is and I think that's the way it's going to have to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, this comes the same day Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth appeared to walk back comments about Ukraine not joining NATO, that he made at NATO headquarters in Brussels on Wednesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U DEFENSE SECRETARY: I want to clear about something as pertains to NATO membership not being realistic outcome for negotiations. That's something that was stated as part of my remarks here as coordination with how we're executing these ongoing negotiations, which are led by President Trump. All of that said, these negotiations are led by President Trump. Everything is on the table in his conversations with Vladimir Putin and Zelenskyy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I'm joined by anchor and chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins; also chief national security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh.
Kaitlan, it is pretty remarkable that Secretary Hegseth, on his first big international trip yesterday, point blank, says Ukraine's not going to join NATO. And then today, now, walks it back.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, his comments yesterday were extraordinary when Secretary Hegseth made them because it was really laying down a marker of the future of what the negotiations could look like and it was before we even knew that President Trump was set to speak with President Putin yesterday.
That only came hours later that we found out about a 90-minute call and got the reality of that and no Zelenskyy call. And so, to see Hegseth soften those comments today was equally remarkable because it raised a question of what that meant. We had asked questions back in the White House yesterday if those comments by the Defense secretary were taking bargaining chips off the table, because those are two things that Putin clearly wants in these negotiations.
And so, I asked President Trump about that today in the oval office. He himself also acknowledged that yes, Hegseth was softening his comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Did you ask Secretary Hegseth to walk back his comment saying Ukraine won't join NATO and won't go back to pre-2014 borders because those are bargaining chips you could use?
TRUMP: No, I didn't know. Somebody told me to, but I thought his comments were good yesterday and they're probably good today. They're a little bit softer perhaps, but I thought his comments --
COLLINS: Was that at your direction?
TRUMP: I thought his comments yesterday were pretty accurate. I don't see any way that a country in Russia's position could allow them just in their position could allow them to join NATO.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: So the president was acknowledging that he was kind of easing up on them. But then Trump himself agreed with what Secretary Hegseth said yesterday that it is unrealistic for NATO to have Ukraine join as a part of this, and also those pre-2014 borders, which is before Russia, illegally annexed Crimea, that, that was unlikely as well. And so, he himself was kind of laying down the markers as they were hoping that these talks would move forward from here.
COOPER: Yes and Nick, I mean, you spent so much time covering the war in Ukraine at the front lines. You just heard President Trump again was asked this afternoon with Prime Minister Modi about what Russia should give up and negotiations again seem to blame the war on Ukraine's goal of joining NATO, which is a line Russia has been using. How much daylight is there between President Trump's position and the Kremlin's position on this?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, it's eerily familiar, it seems how much conversations you'd imagine with the Kremlin -- but not privy to what was said between them but how much of that he appears to reiterate in public. Just a recap, Russia invaded Ukraine. It appears to be in a strategic decision about trying to ensure that the country and its orbit stay very much so Ukraine turned ambitions to get close to the European union and for the future possible join NATO, bu tit's a very long unrealistic path.
That wasn't the reason why war started. And so yes, we're seeing increasingly things that the Kremlin would like to have become part of US policy being spoken by Trump. He appears to be a bit fuzzy on the details of NATO membership, but it's something certainly with Zelenskyy has reached for recently as a bid to try and get some sort of security guarantees if there was a future ceasefire.
[20:25:14]
And the fascinating thing about Hegseth's comments is that the idea that Ukraine cant join NATO or get a 2014 borders back is a reality is not accepted by the European allies of Ukraine, but it was one that they were going to lay out in public. But essentially the bluff of it was part of negotiating strategy.
In the same day that Hegseth called Trump the best negotiator in the world he basically showed the hand entirely and that leaves me wondering whether this actually may have been more by design. It may be about Washington making sure that publicly they're saying things Putin wants to hear as part of a process he may not be privy to a stage -- Anderson.
COOPER: Kaitlan, President Trump also said today, that he'd like to see Russia rejoin G-7 and formally the G-8 before Russia's membership suspended because they annexed Crimea and invade it. Did he go in to why he wanted to see them back in this group?
COLLINS: So this is a long standing position, actually, that he's had. I've talked to over the years. He felt this way, his first time in office but what's notable about him reiterating it today and pretty forcefully for why he thinks Russia should be involved today, is that it happened after Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022. And of course, after all the deaths, the Ukrainian deaths that Russia has caused by invading and keeping his troops there and continuing to bomb Ukraine even in the last 24 hours. Trump's argument was that in all of these G-7 meetings, it feels like the leaders are always constantly talking about Russia and that is something that they are discussing. So, his argument that he was making in the Oval to us today was why not have Russia there. If we're already talking about them and whatnot.
But, of course, The reason that they were kicked out of the G-7 and last it was known as the G-8 was because they went in to Crimea and took that land. I asked the president what his response would be if Russia invaded, took over land, sovereign land that was not theirs when he was in power given he was criticizing Obama for what they did.
He didn't really get into the details there, Anderson, but it does speak to how he views Russia and instead of kind of pushing them aside or ignoring them and not having conversations with Russia with Putin until they have made some concessions here or withdrawn some troops. The president is ready and willing to have those discussions, to have those talks, and to also go and meet with them even as we've seen other European leaders, or even President Biden himself, reject that notion because of the invasion of Ukraine.
COOPER: Nick, if the US stops supporting Ukraine in the way that it has been over the last several years in terms of money for weapons and continuing the war, would they be able to wage this war longer?
WALSH: In short no, really. I mean, the Europeans certainly have said that funding is guaranteed through this year. Europeans don't have the kind of industrial capacity to supply weapons at the scale that Ukraine needs.
Yes it's more a drone war than it has been. So, some of this is homegrown now in Ukraine, but the money simply isn't there. The Europeans might be able to tap into frozen Russian reserves and use that but that's deeply problematic.
So without the United States, yes, there is an enormous problem on the Ukrainian battlefield. And look, you've just got to remember there is a moral issue here as well. We're dealing with Ukrainian military that are short of infantry that are losing on the frontline. And now they're hearing their key supporter. They've always known Trump wasn't a huge fan of this conflict. But parroting at times, what seems to be Kremlin, notions about how the war started.
And I want to draw your attention to one thing he said last night, Trump called into question the future of Zelenskyy, essentially saying that you'd have to have elections soon and talked about how his polling was not good, to put it mildly. That essentially started an electoral race, I think it's fair to say in Ukraine. Trump is saying Zelenskyy won't be there forever and he is going to have to hold. A vote in wartime and a leader who is now trying to run a war at the same time.
So, these words, while they seem often in isolation in the Oval Office, part of that kind of show we're seeing of Trump involving himself in the peace process here, are going to have very immediate consequences in a war where there are currently 200,000 people in trenches trying to kill each other.
COOPER: Nick Paton Walsh, Kaitlan Collins. I'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source." Thanks, Nick, appreciate it.
Coming up next for us, Mitch McConnell's vote against RFK Jr. For HHS secretary. The president's reaction which included questioning a well- documented part of McConnell's life, his childhood battle with polio.
Later, astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, a fascinating conversation with them ahead in space. How they are doing after eight months in space. They thought it was going to be a pretty short ride, and the chances they now have to finally come home.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:34:12]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. today became Secretary of Health and Human Services. His swearing-in came shortly after every Republican, but one voted to confirm him, that one being the former Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.
Now, Secretary Kennedy has a long record as a vaccine skeptic at best. In a statement explaining his vote today, Senator McConnell said, I will not condone the re-litigation of proven cures, and neither will millions of Americans who credit their survival and quality of life to scientific miracles.
Well, today, talking to CNN's Kaitlan Collins, the President had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I feel sorry for Mitch. And I was one of the people that let -- he couldn't -- he wanted to go to the end, and he wanted to stay leader. He wasn't -- he's not equipped mentally. He wasn't equipped 10 years ago mentally, in my opinion.
He'd let the Republican Party go to hell. If I didn't come along, the Republican Party wouldn't even exist right now. Mitch McConnell never really had it. But he's not voting against Bob. He's voting against me, but that's all right.
[20:35:08]
He endorsed me. You know, Mitch -- do you know that Mitch endorsed me, right?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, THE SOURCE: Well, he did have polio --
TRUMP: Do you think that was easy? What?
COLLINS: He had polio, obviously. And his -- TRUMP: I don't know anything about he had polio. He had polio.
COLLINS: Are you doubting that he had polio?
TRUMP: I have no idea if he had polio. All I can tell you about him is that he shouldn't have been leader.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Joining us is CNN Senior Political Commentator Scott Jennings, who served in several senior campaign positions for Senator McConnell, also CNN Political Commentator Jamal Simmons.
Scott, as somebody who's been close to McConnell for a long time, what is that like to hear?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, I don't love it. I mean, these guys obviously aren't friends and they're not going to be friends. And, you know, they represent different wings of the Republican Party.
I've been friends with Senator McConnell since I was 17 years old, and --
COOPER: Wow.
JENNINGS: -- he's served the country well and served our nation well. And he's obviously coming down to the end of his career here. On this vote today, look, I don't think he cast it based on any grudges. I think he had a personal story regarding his polio experience that led him to cast this vote.
I would note he did vote to put the nomination on the floor as he did the other people that he's voted against. So he didn't try to obstruct the Trump Cabinet here. But he cast his personal opinion, which all the senators do.
My anticipation is 90 percent plus of the time he's going to be with Donald Trump on the issues of the day, whether it's energy or immigration or taxes. But, you know, on this one today, it was personal. He's had a personal experience and that led him to cast his vote.
So, you know, I don't love it when two people that I like are fighting. But, you know, my hope is that in the future, they'll be able to work together on the big ticket issues facing the country.
COOPER: Jamal, I mean, it is amazing that -- I mean, Mitch McConnell has stood up on his beliefs on RFK Jr. and also Hegseth and also Tulsi Gabbard. That the president sees that as a personal attack on him is fascinating to me. Not surprising, but it's interesting.
JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was going to say, have you been watching the news --
COOPER: Yes, I know. Yes, I know. SIMMONS: -- for the last couple of years, maybe 10 (ph) years? Listen, Donald Trump obviously has a perspective about getting his people in office. And he wants to. When Mitch McConnell was the majority leader, he was kind of his, you know, ace in the hole in the United States Senate. And he helped him get some of the things done he needed to get done.
Now what we're seeing is a Mitch McConnell who really if I don't give a flying fig was a person, it would be Mitch McConnell, right? And that is what he is up to right now. He is sort of saying what he thinks or voting the way he thinks. And the rest of us are kind of sitting back and acknowledging it.
I wish he would have had that kind of perspective the last time we had an impeachment vote, because if they had done that last impeachment vote, and Donald Trump would not be president of the United States.
COOPER: Scott, what do you -- what is behind Senator McConnell's, you know, vote against Pete Hegseth and Tulsi Gabbard?
JENNINGS: Well, he's been pretty clear about how he felt about these nominees on Hegseth. He didn't believe that he was qualified on Gabbard. He laid out a few issues on which he strongly disagreed with her, such as the -- her views on Snowden, who is a traitor to the United States, by the way, just as Mitch McConnell said.
And on RFK, I do think this whole issue of the polio vaccine was deeply personal to McConnell. In each case, he voted to allow the nomination to come to the floor. So he voted on the cloture piece. But he just obviously had a difference of opinion with Trump about whether they were right for the job.
Now, Trump got all three. And I would point out that he's going to get his entire Cabinet and that all three of these people now have a chance to serve our country. And McConnell, specifically with Hegseth, is going to have a chance to work with him in his role as chairman of Defense Subcommittee on Appropriations.
He'll be the one funding the Pentagon. And so they're going to have to work together. And I think they will work together. So I think in the long run, what you're going to ultimately see is that Mitch McConnell is a loyal Republican, and he's going to try to achieve Republican and conservative outcomes, whether it's on immigration, energy, national security or taxes.
And I think the vast majority of the time, he and Trump are going to be on the same page, maybe on a few issues they won't be. But, obviously, you know, the Republican Party is as unified on most policy as it has ever been under Trump. And they're on the cusp of being able to do some great things. I think McConnell will be part of most of it.
COOPER: Jamal, it is interesting to try to figure out what HHS is going to -- what the public health system in America is going to look like under Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
SIMMONS: It is interesting. Listen, I always approach government thinking about what's going to make America stronger. What's going to prepare our kids to be able to compete in the future as they go forward? There's so many things that we can't predict.
But there are things that we know. We know that the world is safer now that we have a polio vaccine. We know we all got back to work and were able to go back to school because there was a COVID-19 vaccine. So the question is, is science going to govern what HHS does and what Secretary Kennedy allows? Or is it just going to be his personal feelings or some random rumor he's heard on the internet?
[20:40:03]
And I would just hope that the president, President Trump, listens to the scientists and they all pay attention to the data so that the country can be safer.
COOPER: Jamal Simmons, thank you. Scott Jennings as well, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Up next, when can they return home? A conversation with astronauts Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: This week, two astronauts aboard the International Space Station learn they may finally get to come home. Commander Suni Williams and Captain Butch Wilmore have been there since June. Their departure date has been in flux since they had technical issues with the Boeing Starliner spacecraft they arrived in.
In a world in which things are so polarized, it was a pleasure today to be able to spend a good chunk of time talking with these two remarkable American astronauts. So we're going to play you a lot of my conversation with them, because it's fascinating to hear about what their lives in space are like. And frankly, they deserve as much attention as they can get for their sacrifices.
I spoke to Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
[20:45:09]
COOPER: Commander Williams, Captain Wilmore, thanks so much for joining us. You've been up there since last June. How are you doing?
CMDR. SUNITA "SUNI" WILLIAMS, NASA ASTRONAUT: We're doing pretty darn good, actually. You know, we've got food, we've got clothes. We have great crew members up here. You know, of course, it was a little bit longer stay than we had expected. But, you know, both of us have trained to live and work on the International Space Station, and we've -- I think we've made the most of it.
COOPER: Commander Williams, what does it feel like to be floating around all that time? I mean, I was going to ask the captain, but his hair is pretty short. What -- I mean, your hair is up all the time. Is that -- does it feel weird?
WILLIAMS: You know, it's a lot of fun. I like my crazy hair up here. It sort of -- it gets a little Einstein look, so it's pretty cool. Both of us have lived here before, and it is just amazing how when you come across the hatch after you've been here, it's like, oh my gosh, I remember what this is all like.
I remember feeling what it's like floating, and I think both of us adapted really quickly. And I think, I'm hoping the same will be true when we come back home.
COOPER: Yes. How much time does it take to adapt when you land again?
WILLIAMS: Yes, that's going to be a little bit hard, as usual. I've been up twice before for long-duration missions, and it's almost a day for a day that you get that like fast twitch muscle action back again. But I think both of us will be a little bit sad when that feeling of space sort of leaves us after about 24 hours and we're not a little bit like motion sickness from coming back home.
That'll actually be a little bit sad when that goes away, just because that means that really physically the spaceflight came to an end.
CAPT. BARRY "BUTCH" WILMORE, NASA ASTRONAUT: And yes, you don't know it right now, Anderson, but gravity is really, really tough. That's what we'll feel when we first get back. Gravity's tough.
COOPER: Tough in what sense? Just on your body?
WILMORE: Yes, everything. I mean, we have no gravity. We don't feel the effects of gravity here. We're floating, as Suni has been saying. But when you get back, gravity starts pulling everything to your lower extremities.
The fluid that is shifting, I got a little puffy face. It's always that way when you're in -- when I'm in space. All that fluid is going to be pulled to my lower extremities. And it's really going to be different.
Even to lift a pencil, you don't even feel a pencil when you lift it. When we get back, even to lift a pencil, we will feel the weight.
COOPER: Wow.
WILMORE: That's the transition back. We all experience it when we come back to Earth.
COOPER: And what's the latest information you have from NASA about your return? Is it still your understanding you'll be brought home on a SpaceX spacecraft?
WILMORE: That's affirmative, yes. Right now, the plan is that Crew-10 will launch on the 12th of March. They'll come here, rendezvous and dock. We'll do a turnover for about a week and we will return on or about the 19th of March.
COOPER: And why can't you leave sooner? I mean, what will happen between now and March 12th when you're expected to depart?
WILMORE: We bring crews to and from Space Station. We have a cycle of period of time where those things take place. And to alter that cycle sends ripple effects all the way down the chain. We would never expect to come back just special for us or anyone unless it was a medical issue or something really, really out of the circumstances along those lines. So we need to come back and keep the normal cycle going.
COOPER: I'm not going to -- I don't want to get into politics at all, but I know you've been asked this question before. There's some who have suggested here, President Trump, that you were virtually abandoned by the last administration. Again, I know you've been asked this question before, but do you feel you've been abandoned?
WILMORE: We don't feel abandoned. We don't feel stuck. We don't feel stranded. I understand why others may think that. We've -- we come prepared. We come committed. That is what your human spaceflight program is.
It prepares for any and all contingencies that we can conceive of and we prepare for those. So if you'll help us change the rhetoric, help us change the narrative, let's change it to prepared and committed by what you've been hearing. That's what we prefer.
COOPER: I think it's -- I mean, I've read both of your records and they're extraordinary. I mean, all the stuff you guys have done in your careers is just amazing. I'm fascinated, though, by like a typical day for you. Like, how do you sleep? Do you sleep tethered to something?
I mean, I assume you're not just randomly floating around while you're sleeping. Are you in like a pod like in 2001 or one of those space move (ph)? That's how you sleep. I hope you don't snore.
WILLIAMS: So each of us have a sleep station, so it's, you know, from the old days, like sort of like a phone booth size, a little bit bigger than a phone booth.
WILMORE: A little larger than a coffin.
WILLIAMS: A little -- yes, a little larger than a coffin.
COOPER: Great.
WILLIAMS: And it's interesting, though, like it doesn't really matter once you close your eyes if you're upside down or sideways. And so we have one sleep station on the ceiling, one on the floor and two on either side.
COOPER: When you dream, do you dream that you are in space or do you dream that you're on Earth?
[20:50:05]
WILLIAMS: That's a great question, actually. My father was a neuroscientist and asked me that same question when I returned home the first time. And I didn't really think too much about it when I was up here. But I do dream that I'm up here at times when I'm here. And I do dream that I'm home as well.
I think it, you know, it must be based on your experience and what you're sort of familiar with. So a little of both. And what's I think sort of cool is I took note of all of this. And after I got home last time, I actually dreamed that I was in space a couple of times.
COOPER: Wow.
WILLIAMS: And that's pretty unique and that's pretty special.
COOPER: Are you able to stream movies or TV shows? Do you have Wi-Fi?
WILLIAMS: So we have TV shows and movies that are in like a library that's up here. So anytime anybody wants to watch anything in particular, like when we're like working out because it sort of makes the treadmill go by and the, you know, the stationary bike go by a little bit. So it's nice to do that a little bit.
We have those all the time at whenever we want. We do have some Internet connection up here so we can get some Internet live. We've gotten football. It's been this cruise go to this past fall. Also, you know, YouTube or something like that.
It's not continuous. It has chunks of time that we get it. And we use that same system also to make phone calls home so we could talk to our families and do video conferences even on the weekends as well. So it's -- they have -- this place is pretty nice place to live for the most part.
COOPER: And could -- why don't you just show us around just little bit?
WILMORE: It's Cooper 360.
COOPER: Oh, yes, sure. Of course. I bet you say that to all the anchors. Can you just show us around a little bit? Like what is that stuff around you? This is so fascinating to me. I love how you're moving. That's so crazy.
WILLIAMS: So just to give you an example of one of the experiments that we were -- we've been working on with folks on the ground, these are called Astrobees. So they actually can come off the wall and fly around, huge opportunities for people to test out, guidance navigation control on a quote unquote "spacecraft" in microgravity inside here.
So we have companies, universities, students all flying these Astrobees around at different times. Some of them are actually even grabbing on to other satellites that other pieces that we might have floating around and that might help us clean up space debris.
This right here is -- where are you going now?
WILMORE: Just looking down. WILLIAMS: Yes, going down -- the rest of the gym. This is a huge module that has all sorts of scientific experiments going on. We have a tray right here that does some combustion experiments, as well as over here. We've got a couple of little micro centrifuges over here that we have plants and animals in at times.
Right on the other side of Butch is a glove box where we've done some stem cell research as well as DNA sequencing. And behind -- right behind us, where you saw in the beginning, there's an airlock where it can take payloads out of the space station and then with the Japanese robotic arm, put it on a platform out there. And those could be Earth observation satellites.
So there's stuff throughout this whole station. And it's about the size, I'd say, like of a 747. The interior of that --
COOPER: All right.
WILLIAMS: -- as you fly through the space station takes about 30 seconds.
WILMORE: It takes me about 15.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: We're going to have more of my conversation with them ahead. I just think it's remarkable what they're doing.
Commander Williams and Captain Wilmore talk about their families and what it's been like being away from them for eight months and how they stay connected. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:58]
COOPER: More now in my conversation today with Commander Suni Williams and Captain Butch Wilmore, who have been aboard the International Space Station since June, months longer than expected after problems with their Boeing spacecraft.
We talked about what it's been like being away from their families. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: I know you have kids. How often do you get to speak to your wife, to your daughters? I mean, they must be, first of all, just so proud of you. And they must -- I mean, when kids in school ask, like, what do your parents do, you've got -- they must be top of the list in terms of what their dad is doing.
WILMORE: I appreciate you making that comment, Anderson. I really do. I'm proud of them. My daughter's in college, my oldest, my youngest is a senior in high school. I'm missing her senior year. That's the lowest, the downest point for me. But she's a trooper. My wife is something else. She's amazing. They're the ones that are really resilient in all this because, you know, their lives have been altered, too. You know, since I've been here, we've had a hurricane hit Houston. I had to replace my roof.
A tree fell down. Neighbors from -- and people from church came and cut it up and hauled it off. People cut my grass, all that. So, thanks to all of them. And like I said, my ladies are -- have been amazing. And just say hello to you all, Deanna, Daryn, Logan. And happy Valentine's Day.
COOPER: Is there anybody you want to say hi to or?
WILLIAMS: Sure. I would love to say hi to my husband. And also my niece and nephew who -- my niece is actually graduating from high school this year, too. And one of our other crewmates, his son is graduating from high school, too.
So, you know, we've all missed some time with our family up here. And that's unfortunate. But you know what? You know, they are also, like Butch said, very resilient and, you know, ready for, you know, to support us. And that is -- that's a huge task to ask them to do. But they're up for it.
COOPER: Yes. Well, I mean, you know, all folks in the military make tremendous sacrifices serving overseas and away from their families and their kids. And you guys are just -- you're doing incredible things and it's such a sacrifice.
And I appreciate talking to you and I appreciate all you're doing. Thank you. It makes us all proud.
WILLIAMS: Anderson, it's been a pleasure talking to you today. And thank you so much for being interested in the International Space Station and our space program. We have a lot of things to do in the future. And we're looking forward to having a bunch more space explorers join us.
WILMORE: Yes. Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. You take care.
WILMORE: Thanks so much.
COOPER: Stay safe.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Never had somebody flip at the end of an interview. How great are they?
Thanks for watching. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
