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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

White House Reveals Acting DOGE Administrator; After Drama On House Floor, GOP Advances Trump's Budget Blueprint; Ukrainian Official: Deal Reached With U.S. On Resources And Rebuilding; Ed Martin, Tapped To Be D.C.'s Top Prosecutor, Was An Organizer In The "Stop The Steal" Movement; Voters Erupt At GOP Town Halls In Several States; "Roll Over And Play Dead": James Carville's Advice For How Dems Should Capitalize On Voter Reaction To DOGE, Trump; Source: Israel Trying To Extend First Phase Of Ceasefire And Hostage Deal; Hamas Video Shows Two Captives Watching Other Hostages Being Released. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired February 25, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It says in a new statement that the private jet pilot's taxied onto the runway without authorization. It is investigating this incident, along with the National Transportation Safety Board.

The NTSB investigated about 13 other so-called runway incursions since the start of 2023, just another one in a big long narrative -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Pete, thank you very much. I mean what a miracle and just the calmness by that Southwest pilot, holy cow.

Thanks for joining us. Anderson starts now.

[20:00:33]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, Musk has the chainsaw and the power, but the White House says he's not running DOGE. And after days of fumbling to say who is. Today, they finally came up with a name.

Also tonight, breaking news on Ukraine, after refusing to sign earlier versions of a deal, President Zelenskyy seems ready to sign something and may visit Washington on Friday to do it.

And later, what are Democrats to do, with so much power amassed in Trump's hands? James Carville has an idea, play dead, he says, he'll explain tonight.

Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight, keeping them honest, with the chaos surrounding and emanating from the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, right down to who actually runs it.

It sure seems like it's this guy, Elon Musk. He's the one holding court in the Oval Office and running around with that chainsaw. We learned today he's the one expected to sit also in on the President's first Cabinet meeting tomorrow. And it's his computer wizards. Some as young as 19 with nicknames like "Big Balls" who have been seizing unprecedented access, presumably under his direction, to systems and data across the government.

But today, a White House official revealed that Elon Musk does not actually run DOGE. No, instead, the acting director of DOGE is this person, Amy Gleason, who previously worked at the U.S. Digital Service, which is the agency DOGE was repurposed into at the start of the administration, which is odd because people have been asking for who is in charge for quite a while, and even earlier today, they weren't able to answer that question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Who is the DOGE administrator?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So, the President tasked Elon Musk to oversee the DOGE effort. There are career officials, and there are political appointees who are helping run DOGE on a day-to-day basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, that was her first answer. Reporters then tried again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: I wanted to ask about a federal judge yesterday was saying that they didn't know who the DOGE administrator was and was asking the lawyer for the administration who it was -- and the lawyer responded, I don't know the answer to that.

Can you tell us who the administrator of DOGE is?

LEAVITT: Again, I've been asked and answered this question. Elon Musk is overseeing DOGE. There are career --

REPORTER: Is he the administrator?

LEAVITT: No, Elon Musk is a special government employee, which I've also been asked and have answered that question as well.

There are career officials at DOGE. There are political appointees at DOGE. I'm not going to reveal the name of that individual from this podium. I'm happy to follow up and provide that to you.

But we've been incredibly transparent about the way that DOGE is working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Incredibly transparent, she says. And we've certainly heard that before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: So all of our actions are maximally transparent. In fact, I don't think there's been -- I don't know of a case where an organization has been more transparent than the DOGE organization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Keeping them honest, it's a strange thing to say about an agency that, until now, would not even reveal who's in charge of it, or for that matter, even say how long this acting administrator has had the job. The White House official who told us about Miss Gleason's position did not give a time frame.

In any event, whoever is at the top of the org chart and why ever DOGE and the White House would not say until now, Elon Musk is both the face of the agency and it seems the power behind it. Even though he's neither been elected nor Senate confirmed and as we reported, is not being required to publicly disclose any conflicts of interest.

He is the one most recently behind the e-mails demanding federal workers list their five accomplishments in the prior week and threatening their jobs if they don't. The latest deadline for that is at midnight tonight, which has created a lot of confusion for federal employees about what they're supposed to do, which the President seemed to only add to today when asked if employees had to respond to the e-mail or not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you see this voluntary, like OPM has said, or mandatory?

TRUMP: Well, it's somewhat voluntary, but it's also, if you don't answer, I guess you get fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Certainly clears things up. One IRS employee described to us the confusion all of this is causing bedlam was the word they used. Some departments and agencies, including Justice, State, DHS, the FBI and Pentagon are telling staffers not to respond to the e-mail. Elsewhere, people are simply confused about what to do.

Our chief said it was mandatory, one staffer at the Department of Veterans Affairs told us. Then OPM said it became voluntary. Then I guess Trump just told us it was mandatory again.

Another VA staffer told CNN they had to attend multiple meetings on the directive, which they said interfered with actually doing their jobs.

Another government worker told us about the room set up at one facility so that janitors and others without computer access could go online and justify their positions.

And there could be more of all of this ahead. CNN has learned that the Office of Management and Budget and Office of Personnel Management are expected to direct agencies to prepare for large scale firings. That's according to a source familiar with the plans. [20:05:12]

Now, whatever that might mean in numbers and human impact is unclear. What is clear from recent days and weeks is that whatever is being done in disrupting government functions and no doubt the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and their families.

To that point, we learned today that 21 staffers at DOGE who worked there when it was the U.S. Digital Service have resigned in protest of DOGE's efforts.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins has more. She joins us from Washington.

Is the confusion about who runs it? And do people have to respond to this e-mail justifying their existence? I mean, is that confusion a byproduct or is it intentional?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's not clear. It seems to not be intentional because, I mean, even these Justice Department lawyers, when they were inside the courtroom yesterday, were being grilled by a judge asking them, who exactly is running this? What is Elon Musk's responsibility?

That really gets at the heart of why this matters, because this could be a very key issue that starts playing out, Anderson, as were seeing a lot of these federal workers here who have been fired or agencies that cant disburse money that was given to them by Congress winding up in court.

And that's why the administrator could prove to be such a critical link here, and why reporters have been asking the white house who exactly it is that has been running DOGE.

And so, learning tonight, getting this confirmation, as we did from a White House official that it is Amy Gleason someone who has worked previously in the White House and in administrations and worked for what DOGE was before it was named DOGE by Trump on his first day in office. It was this office created by President Obama.

Amy Gleason has this background in health care. She actually was on the task force that that was run by Doctor Birx during COVID for coronavirus, when the CDC wasn't really putting everything together. And now, she is running this.

But to give you a sense of, you know, the question of the extent of her role in what that looks like, you know, when she was reached for comment today, "The New York Times" noted that she was on a pre- scheduled vacation with her family.

And so, it has raised questions about the timing here, because reporters have been asking for the better part of two weeks now, this question and just today in the Briefing Room, the White House was not ready and not able or willing to reveal that information.

And so, I think it gets to the extent of whether or not this is just simply someone whose name is on paper that is part of this and what its actually going to look like in court when it comes to Elon Musk being the person leading the initiative here.

Because when you talk to White House officials, they say, yes, it is now Amy Gleason who is the acting administrator. But, of course, Elon Musk, if you look at his Twitter feed, he has been the one directing a lot of this publicly, but also behind-the-scenes.

COOPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks very much. See you at the top of the hour on "The Source." Your guest is going to be I know, Senator Elizabeth Warren.

Right now, some perspective from Scott Galloway, NYU professor of marketing and co-host of the "Raging Moderates" podcast.

Scott, I mean, does -- what Elon Musk is doing make sense to you in terms of the stuff with DOGE and working in these agencies?

SCOTT GALLOWAY PROFESSOR OF MARKETING, NYU STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Well, it doesn't make sense from its stated goal of saving money. "The Wall Street Journal" came out with an analysis yesterday that said, it's not going to be $60 billion in savings. The real number is $2.7 billion.

Elon Musk has taken $15 billion in subsidies in direct grants from the federal government. So, just the numbers here are just don't add up. It's strategically quite elegant in that I believe DOGE and all the outrage over it and all of the kind of media attention is essentially a weapon of mass distraction, trying to get the American public to look away from the fact that the Trump tax cuts would add $900 billion a year in deficits.

COOPER: Do you do you think that's working?

GALLOWAY: Unfortunately, I think it is. I think a lot of Americans have suffered or have gotten one of those e-mails saying your phone is being turned off, please clear out your desk.

The corporate world is full of injustice and firings. That's part of capitalism. So, I think the Democrats would be better messaging around the incompetence and the misdirect, as opposed to the injustice here.

COOPER: How long do you think this relationship between Musk and Trump will go on for?

GALLOWAY: You know, I just have no idea. I think what this represents is something scarier. And that is -- the reality is, Anderson, is that these cuts won't affect you or me. We're blessed. Were lucky. We're good at what we do and as a result, we're wealthy. And in a capitalist society, the wealthy have access to rights.

Anyone in my life will have access to rights, must have their own lawyers if anyone comes for them. If things get scary in the United States, if we continue to kind of have these bricks of fascism be laid, and the mortars and difference among the wealthiest and most powerful, because the reality is you can buy rights with wealth.

And when we have the wealthiest man in the world who probably just won the election, it's just more evidence that peoples' rights are a function of their wealth no longer living in America or the Constitution.

[20:10:13]

So, my fear is that the wealthiest among us have this sort of unholy alliance where we're not really speaking up in a full throated way. We're showing up to the Inauguration, we're giving a million dollars to the inauguration committee under the auspices of shareholder value, not recognizing, yes, those people are going to be fine.

The wealthy are going to be fine. They can move to Dubai, they can buy rights. Their kids are going to be fine. Their kids are going to always have a certain level of democracy. What we need is a series of class traitors amongst the wealthiest, who realize that the very American ideals that gave them so much prosperity, that gave them so much wealth, are severely under threat right now.

I think it is incredibly embarrassing that we have this domino of cowardice among the wealthiest, especially in tech, who have decided not to say anything because they have gone into ChatGPT and uploaded their W-2's and realized that the tax cuts are going to be enormously beneficial for them.

It is time for the wealthiest who control this government and who have access to Donald Trump, to realize that what got them here were American values that are severely under threat.

And I apologize for being so preachy, but I think there is a complicitness among the wealthiest in America who are complaining under their breath, but not really standing up as evidence by being paraded at his inauguration.

Apple's stock doesn't need to go higher. Bezos doesn't need any more yachts or people dancing around in thongs on his goddamn deck. On his deathbed, he's not going to regret being worth $90 billion versus $120 billion. He's going to regret not standing up for American values.

COOPER: The last time we talked, you spoke of a growing kleptocracy. Have you seen any signs of that slowing? Because I don't think I have.

GALLOWAY: Amazon is paying $41 million for the Melania Trump biography and about $28 million is going directly to their bank account. You have, Linda Yaccarino has decided to threaten IPG and Omnicom with government retribution to get in the way of their merger if they don't advertise on her platform.

This is not only a kleptocracy, but it's reminiscent of early 30s, where industry became basically entered into this alliance with the leader at that time, Adolf Hitler, who said, I will bust the unions if you give me money.

There not only needs to be a separation of church and state, there needs to be a separation of state and business. And what we see is the most powerful people in business are bending a knee and giving in to this ridiculous pressure where they have said -- okay, the incentives are to bribe this guy, kiss his ass, engage in this type of one-sided support and he will give me money.

COOPER: Scott, you're really depressing me, man. Is there any is there any --

GALLOWAY: Sorry, Anderson.

COOPER: I know, listen, I mean, like --

GALLOWAY: Let's talk about what could go right.

COOPER: What could go right?

GALLOWAY: This is the time to rise up.

Well, I'd like to think that the people -- it takes more. if you're in Europe on a boat partying and you might be with people in the Gulf, you might be with people from -- you might be with tech brothers, you might be with oligarchs from Russia. And you're fine.

But if there aren't class traitors, if there aren't people who speak up from big tech and the most powerful business people who are now responsible for two-thirds of our economy and say, I am not going to engage in this type of kleptocracy, this type of pressure, I'm not going to engage in this. Enough already.

Yes, your share price might go down, you might be worth less. But I would like to think that Americans are seeing in these town halls. I'd like to think that people are recognizing that a tax cut for the rich, such that people in the most, the greatest level of need get their medical benefits cut. That is a trade we did not sign up for.

And I'd like to see, we are seeing signs of people saying enough already. This is not what we bargained for. Republicans and Democrats don't need to come together. They need to come to the rescue.

COOPER: Scott Galloway, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

GALLOWAY: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, much more ahead tonight.

There is breaking news on Ukraine. After refusing to sign earlier versions of a deal to hand over a lot of their mineral resources. Now, it seems there is a deal they'll sign and Volodymyr Zelenskyy is coming to Washington for it.

CNN's Fareed Zakaria joins us for that.

Also tonight, the new D.C. U.S. Attorney, he swore an oath to support the Constitution, but he's now calling himself President Trump's lawyer. What you may need to know about Ed Martin, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:19:06] COOPER: We have breaking news now out of the Capitol about what appeared to be after what appeared to be a legislative near-death experience.

Earlier tonight, House Republicans regrouped and have just passed a Budget Resolution in line with the president's agenda. CNN's Manu Raju joins us now with the latest. So, what happened?

MANU RAJU, CNN HOST, "INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY": Yes, this has been a whiplash night. In fact, the Speaker had been struggling all day long to try to lock down the votes in this razor-thin Republican majority. And for a moment, it appeared he did not have the votes. He was going to pull this all together from the House floor. But then there was a change.

The change came that they were able to convince some members who had planned to vote no, to ultimately vote yes. And right now, the House is on track to adopt this Budget Resolution, which is essential. They must pass this first in order to move the larger Trump agenda.

That includes everything from a sprawling overhaul of the tax code to more than a trillion dollars in spending cuts to billions of dollars, hundreds of billions of dollars in spent in new border security measures, defense policy provisions as well. But they first need to adopt this budget blueprint.

Some folks on the far right and the hard right of the conference had demanded even deeper spending cuts. And so, all day long, they've been trying to reassure its members. We have been told that President Trump himself was on the phone with some of these skeptical members.

[20:20:19]

Ultimately, some of them got assurances and some of them simply changed how they were going to vote. One member, Victoria Spartz of Indiana, told me just a couple of hours ago, Anderson, that she was a hard no, but then she just voted in favor of adopting this Budget Resolution.

Another member, Warren Davis had indicated he was concerned about how spending issues would be dealt with to keep the government open past March 14th.

He appears to have gotten some commitments there, but they did lose one Republican vote. Thomas Massie of Kentucky, who has criticized this measure by saying that it would essentially explode the budget deficit when Republicans are saying that they would do the opposite with this plan, and that's all that the Speaker could afford to lose in this vote, one Republican vote. And that's what he limited defections to, to get this across the finish line.

But, Anderson, this is actually supposed to be the easy part to pass this broad blueprint about where they want to proceed. Now, they have to actually draft the legislative details to fill in all the blanks on spending cuts, on overhaul of the tax code, on what they want to do on the border, everything, and reach an agreement across the other side of the Capitol with Senate Republicans, who have a completely different approach on how to proceed.

So, this is still months in the process, but still a major hurdle now cleared by the Speaker when it appeared like they were going to trip over that hurdle and see this plan collapse and have to scramble to figure out a Plan B, but now they have what appears at the moment this vote is not closed yet, but at the moment they have the votes to get this initial plan to the next phase of this effort to move ahead with Donald Trump's sweeping legislative agenda -- Anderson.

COOPER: Manu Raju, thanks very much. We have more breaking news tonight.

A Ukrainian official tells CNN that the U.S. and Ukraine have agreed on a deal over natural resources and reconstruction. The source saying that agreement was reached after, "everything unacceptable was taken out of the text and it is now more clearly spelled out how this agreement will contribute to Ukraine's security and peace."

Again, that's according to a Ukrainian official, who also says that Ukraine's President Zelenskyy now plans to travel to Washington. Here's what the President said about the visit and the agreement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I hear that he's coming on Friday. Certainly, it's okay with me if he'd like to, and he would like to sign it together with me. And I understand that's a big deal. Very big deal and I think the American people, even if you look at polling, they're very happy because, you know, Biden was throwing money around like its cotton candy and it's a very big deal. It could be $1 trillion deal. It could be whatever. But it's rare earths and other things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: A big deal, the president said, to which you might add, in all kinds of ways.

Here to talk about it, Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS." What do you make -- first of all, all these apparent deals, especially given Zelenskyy had rejected an earlier version that apparently demanded a $500 billion share of Ukraine's rare earth minerals in exchange for the aid that the U.S. has already provided. I mean, his earlier descriptions of some of the details of this deal were quite onerous.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN, HOST OF "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS": Yes, it was almost a kind of -- it was the kind of thing you extract from a country once you have humiliated and is lost in a war, you know, it's the kind of terms that people, you know, the allies took from Germany after World War I.

But it does seem like most of that is taken out. I mean, frankly, it looks like Zelenskyy got what he wanted, which was the most onerous parts of the of the deal have been taken out. It sounds from what I've heard and you know, we don't know. But from what I've heard, it's a kind of joint exploration of Ukrainian minerals and things like that. Money goes into a fund, 50 percent of that fund can be invested in Ukrainian projects or Ukrainian U.S. projects. That part I'm not sure about, but it does sound very different from the kind of, I mean, essentially what Trump, proposed to Zelenskyy sounded like a kind of protection racket, which is we've been protecting you, we've been giving you this. Now, you've got to pay up. And that doesn't sound -- it feels like the deal is now very different from that.

COOPER: Right and Zelenskyy was also previously claiming that for every dollar that the U.S. was going to give moving forward, Ukraine would have to pay back $2.00 on every dollar.

The question is, you know, security guarantees, it doesn't seem like security guarantees by the U.S. are in this part of the deal, which is something obviously Ukraine would have liked. Is -- I mean, we saw the vote at the U.N. just yesterday. Where the U.S. is now siding with Russia in this vote, not to name Russia as an aggressor, which was just a remarkable turn of events and turn of U.S. foreign policy.

[20:25:03]

ZAKARIA: It's staggering, I don't think we've ever seen a reversal like that and, you know, the United States was voting with Russia, with North Korea, with Belarus, even China and Iran abstained because China and Iran have both made clear that they do not want to seem to be legitimizing, you know, aggression that takes territory away in a formal way.

So, the United States was actually more pro-Russian on this vote than the Chinese have been.

COOPER: President Trump claimed on Monday that he had specifically asked Vladimir Putin about sending European soldiers to Ukraine as peacekeepers and that Putin, "has no problem with it."

Today, the Kremlin signaled that's not true, referring reporters to statements Russia's Foreign Minister made saying that any deployment of troops under a foreign flag is unacceptable.

ZAKARIA: What strikes me as bizarre about this is why President Trump is trying to get Russia's approval in advance on these things. You know, the United States should set out what it believes are the terms for a just and fair peace. It should marshal its allies in Europe, it should put together the requisite military, economic, political power and then present that to Russia as part of the deal.

There is -- President Trump does seem to have this strange affection affinity soft spot for Putin. Why are we checking with him? Why are we pre-negotiating with him before negotiating? I think that the Russians are, of course, not going to like this. The Russians want to conquer Ukraine. They've made this clear time and time again. They have now spent hundreds of billions of dollars and lost maybe 200,000 men in this effort. Of course, they're not going to be comfortable with anything that suggests an independent Ukraine that is sovereign, democratic, anchored in the West. The question is, can you create circumstances where they have to live with it? Because that is what the Ukrainian people want, and that is what Europe wants and that's what the western world wants. A Ukraine that gets to choose its own destiny and not have to return to becoming a kind of colonial province of Russia.

COOPER: Fareed Zakaria -- Fareed, thanks so much.

Up next, meet Ed Martin. He's the interim U.S. Federal attorney who doesn't just act like the president's attorney. He says it point blank.

Plus, James Carville has advice to Democrats, it's the exact opposite of what almost three-quarters of Democratic voters say they won the recent CNN poll, he joins us ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:32:00]

COOPER: So Ed Martin is the Trump-appointed interim U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. The Justice Department described his job this way, quote, "United States Attorneys serve as the nation's principal litigators under the direction of the Attorney General of the United States of America". They work for the country, in other words, not the country's president.

Yet Mr. Martin is now describing himself as the president's lawyer. And that certainly seems to have endeared him to the president, who now wants him to be the U.S. attorney for Washington, not just the interim one.

So who is Ed Martin? Well, he was an organizer with the so-called Stop the Steal movement, who spoke at a rally in Washington the day before the Capitol attack.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ED MARTIN, TRUMP-APPOINTED INTERIM DC US ATTORNEY: Thank you for standing with all of the patriots next to you. And thank you for standing for our president. But remember, what they're stealing is not just an election, it's our future.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: Martin also represented some of the January 6th rioters. He became the first U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. in at least 50 years to be appointed without experience as a judge or a federal prosecutor, according to The Washington Post. And he makes no bones about where his loyalty lies.

This is what he said online yesterday. Quote, "As President Trump's lawyers, we are proud to fight to protect his leadership as our president, and we are vigilant in standing against entities like the AP that refuse to put America first". The AP is the Associated Press.

Along those lines, Mr. Martin recently offered to file charges against anyone who threatens members of the Elon Musk team. And last week, in an internal email obtained by CNN, he said he was launching what he called Operation Whirlwind, saying, quote, "We must protect our cops, our prosecutors, our DOGE workers, the president and all of the government employees from threats against our nation".

Here now to talk about this is former federal prosecutor and CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Elie Honig. Is he qualified to be the U.S. attorney?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No, but if only he was just unqualified, we'd be in a better position where we are here. You know, I've taken a deep dive on Ed Martin over the last several weeks since he took office, and I'm sounding the alarm bells here, and I don't do that often.

Ed Martin brings a toxic blend of traits to the job. One, he's never done the job before. Now, that's not automatically disqualifying, but he doesn't know what he's doing and he doesn't understand the big principles, as reflected in what you just showed. Calling yourself the president's lawyers goes against everything the Justice Department is about.

Two, he brings this startling arrogance to the job. If you look at his public statements, everything is chest-beating. Everything is, I'm going to tear you down. It is not becoming of a prosecutor. And it suggests to me an amateur who's trying to act like a tough guy.

And then finally, and I think most problematically, he is explicitly political. He is bringing a political agenda to seek out and seek vengeance on those who've wronged Donald Trump and Elon Musk.

COOPER: What is that job supposed to be? What are you supposed to do?

HONIG: Yes. You are -- well, you get the privilege. It sounds corny, but you get to stand up in court and say, representing the United States of America. So there's really two components of it. One is the criminal prosecution angle, where you're supposed to bring cases without regard to politics.

This guy is doing the -- or threatening to do the exact opposite. And then there's a civil component where you defend the U.S. government in suits.

[20:35:05]

But the whole notion of without fear or favor, that's another cliche we like. I mean, his public statements have been almost entirely geared towards, I will avenge Donald Trump. I will avenge Elon Musk. I will avenge DOGE.

COOPER: It seems because even Pam Bondi said during her confirmation hearing that her client is the people of America. HONIG: Yes. Well, she's right. She's right. And look, she's been a prosecutor. I have plenty of criticisms of her so far. Number one being she sort of checked out all that. She didn't even know what was happening with Eric Adams.

She needs to reel in this guy, Ed Martin, because Pam Bondi has been a prosecutor for a long time. He has not. And I think that's a very telling difference right there.

COOPER: And just in a traditional presidency, the Justice Department, they're not supposed to even have a whiff of White House politics. I mean, they're not supposed to pay --

HONIG: Yes.

COOPER: -- have connections at all.

HONIG: You're supposed to be separate. There's actually policies in place that both at the White House, traditionally and DOJ that limit the contact and basically say we're supposed to be separate. And, you know, one of the things that this guy has posted that I think is really outrageous is he's basically threatening people.

He's threatening Jack Smith. He's threatening anyone --

COOPER: He's threatening the lawyers who represented Jack Smith.

HONIG: Right. So it's sort of like anyone who touched anything to do with any Trump prosecution or with any January 6th prosecution. The first thing he did when he took office was fire a whole bunch of January 6th prosecutors.

By the way, he had defended January 6th cases. That's OK. But it's obviously there's a conflict of interest. And then it's not enough for him to just fire these people. He then said, and we're going to investigate you all criminally, you prosecutors.

COOPER: He will have to pass through confirmation if he's going to be the permanent U.S. attorney.

HONIG: He will. He will need a majority vote in the Senate. Look, I believe he has no qualifications to do this job. I believe regardless of which party the senators are coming from, they should vote no, especially given the way he's handled it thus far.

But basically every nominee above the Matt Gaetz line so far has gotten through. So --

COOPER: He also clearly attracted the attention of President Trump because originally this was just an interim position. Trump had somebody else in mind --

HONIG: Yes.

COOPER: -- according to a report. HONIG: Yes. And this is one of the most sensitive and important federal prosecutor's offices in the country. This is D.C. So all the political stuff passes through there in some respect. All the January 6th cases, every member of Congress, a lot of statements that get made. And one of the things that he's really doing is he seems to be aggressively policing speech, right?

One of the things he's threatened to do is he said, I'm opening a criminal investigation of Chuck Schumer and Representative Garcia, both of whom made, you know, inflammatory political comments. But that's not criminal.

He is trying to take speech he does not like and threaten to make it criminal using his badge. He sees himself as almost this private police force for Trump and for Elon Musk. I see very bad things, very dangerous things ahead, especially if he gets confirmed.

COOPER: Elie Honig, thanks very much.

HONIG: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: Appreciate it.

A recent CNN poll shows that many Democrats are frustrated that Democratic leaders aren't doing more to challenge the Trump administration. But James Carville has a different take. He joins me in a moment. Also later tonight, the hopes that the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas can be extended.

We'll talk to two brothers of two Israeli hostages who were forced to record a propaganda video for Hamas over the weekend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:42:35]

COOPER: Over the past week, the most conspicuous reaction to the dismantling of the federal workforce and to the president's conduct in office has come at town halls held by several Republican congressmen.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

REP. MARK ALFORD (R), MISSOURI: Government employees are going to be let go. And that's just the reality of it. And I'm -- I feel bad that people have been laid off. I truly do.

REP. SCOTT FITZGERALD (R), WISCONSIN: The end result of the fraud and abuse that has been discovered already.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So I would like to know, rather, the people would like to know what you, congressmen, and your fellow congressmen are going to do to rein in the megalomaniac in the White House.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEOCLIP) COOPER: And that last clip was from Georgia Congressman Rich McCormick's town hall last week. He told the Atlanta Journal of Constitution yesterday that the DOGE spending cuts are, quote, "moving a little too fast".

Democrats are clearly struggling to figure out what to do in these early days in the new administration. A recent CNN poll found that 73 percent of Democratic voters said the party's congressional opposition to Trump was, quote, "too little". 22 percent said it was the right amount, and only about 5 percent called it too much.

James Carville, in a new op-ed for The New York Times, suggests the party, for the moment, do nothing. Quote, "With no clear leader to voice our opposition and no control in any branch of government", he writes, "it's time for Democrats to embark on the most daring political maneuver in the history of our party, roll over and play dead. Allow the Republicans to crumble beneath their own weight and make the American people miss us".

The legendary Democratic strategist joins us now. So James, it seems like a pretty big gamble you're suggesting, just roll over and play dead. Doesn't that risk sending the signal that Democrats have no idea what to do and are just giving up?

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, it would be a risky strategy if there wasn't such a thing as a calendar. So we know on March 14th, they have to produce a budget. Then we know they have to have reconciliation. And most importantly, we know they're going to have to extend the debt limit.

They're having to do all this with a two-person House majority. My point is, just lay back, play possum. And when it's time, then go. And I think the House Democrats, I have to tell you, I'm giving them credit. I think that they're playing this thing very smart.

And one of the reasons I really wanted to write this piece is to ask Democratic voters, just give them a little space. Give them a little space. That -- when it's time to come back and fight, breathe me, they're preparing for it. But for right now, just give them a little space and we'll be fine. I really believe that.

[20:45:08]

COOPER: What would that fight look like? You say, give them time and they'll come back and fight.

CARVILLE: Well, so -- yes, right. So what it's going to look like is, so you go to the debt ceiling, they're going to have -- first of all, they're going to add -- we're going to talk about adding at least $4 trillion or $5 trillion to already the existing largest debt we have.

They're not -- they just can't do it any other way because they're going to try to do the tax cuts. Then once they go to Hakeem, that's what you call a military stack in arms. All right, that, then they're going to have to get Democratic votes, I think, to pass a -- might need them to pass a budget, all I know, but they're definitely going to need it to pass the debt ceiling.

And once they do that, my sense is, the Democrats have -- are working on a plan. And I think it's a very well, from what I can tell, it's a very well thought out plan. But we just as Democratic voters and -- we've got to give these people a little breathing room, a little space. And I think they're prepared to maneuver here.

And I don't -- and I think we just got to let -- we've got to let the whole thing fall down as it's doing right now. Look at -- here's the lowest rated president at this point in polling history. The stock market has gone down. The grocery prices have gone up.

Consumer confidence has plummeted. I mean, this thing is disintegrating right in front of our very eyes, and we don't want to stop it from disintegrating right now.

COOPER: But things like cutting, you know, fraud, waste, abuse, I mean, whatever you think of Elon Musk and DOGE, what they're doing, and obviously --

CARVILLE: Right.

COOPER: -- a lot of the stuff they've claimed, they've cut, you know, it actually was mistakes. It was, you know, they said it was, something was cut of $8 billion. It was actually, you know, $8 million --

CARVILLE: OK.

COOPER: -- or whatever it was. That's popular. I mean, the -- even the idea of cutting waste and abuse just -- you're just saying ignore all that? Just let -- I mean, there's very little transparency --

CARVILLE: Well, first of all, you're watching these town halls, these organic, they're not ignoring it, and that's fine. That's very coming up. You know, 47 years ago, my daddy died. He was the personification of a minor federal bureaucrat. He was a postmaster in a third class post office.

If he would have told his family and his children that he did not earn a noble living, we'd have clawed your eyes out. And you see in this all over the country, they are demeaning, patriotic, hardworking federal employees. And some are postmasters, some are customs inspectors, some are park rangers, some are FBI agents, some are enormously talented people.

And who's going to be for waste, fraud, abuse? He hasn't come on anything. Is the federal budget at $6 trillion? Some people say $7 trillion. It's $6 trillion or $7 trillion. They claim they found $80 billion, but they really haven't. I don't -- they might have $8 billion.

This is ridiculous. I mean, if he has something that he's found, that there's abuse or waste, then you should get rid of it. But, you know, President Clinton did reinvent government. It took him five years, and they had congressional approval to do that. There's ways to go about this, but demeaning the entire federal workforce as being useless is not the way to do that. And come November, you don't have to worry. These voters in Virginia are coming out of the woodwork, as you see in right now.

COOPER: James, I think I'm probably one of the few people outside of Carville, Louisiana, who's actually been to the Post Office that your dad worked at. Was that --

CARVILLE: All right.

COOPER: -- that was that like the general store in Carville? Was that he was the postmaster at?

CARVILLE: It was. Yes, there -- right.

COOPER: I've been there.

CARVILLE: He could sell you a 3 cent stamp, yes --

COOPER: Yes.

CARVILLE: -- and a quart of milk or a can of beer at the same time. But I'm saying there are federal employees all over this country, and their families and their dependents and their spouses are very proud. I'm so glad you came to Carville. It was in the movie, which CNN so graciously ran twice.

And, you know, I can say it's 47 years ago, and all my family are all texting each other today. And no one said Daddy was a postmaster in the third class post office. That was an honorable way to earn a living.

COOPER: Yes.

CARVILLE: It still is a very honorable way to earn a living, I might add.

COOPER: Yes, it sure is.

James Carville, I appreciate it. Thank you.

CARVILLE: Thank you, Anderson. You bet.

COOPER: Coming up next, Hamas releases video of two Israeli hostages and their families want the video shared. We'll show it to you. And the brothers of the hostages join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:54:24]

COOPER: The 42-day truce between Israel and Hamas is set to expire this Saturday, and an Israeli source says that Israel is trying to extend the first phase in hopes of getting more hostages released. No movement, apparently, it seems, on negotiations for the even more difficult second phase of the deal.

Sixty-three hostages remain in Gaza, and just under half of those are believed to be alive. The next release, the remains of four hostages, is expected on Thursday.

Steve Witkoff, the U.S. Special Envoy, is returning to the region this weekend. But Hamas says any talks are, quote, "contingent" on the release of 620 Palestinian prisoners and detainees who were expected to be freed last Saturday.

[20:55:00]

Israel delayed their return, saying it wouldn't happen until Hamas will ensure the next release of hostages will take place, quote, "without the humiliating ceremonies" that include videos of hostages.

On Saturday, Hamas released a heavily edited propaganda video showing two Israeli captives in a vehicle who were forced to watch other hostages being showed off and released. The two men are Evyatar David and Guy Gilboa-Dalal, and they were kidnapped by Hamas at the Nova Music Festival.

It's important to note, we usually don't show these videos, but the families of both these men want it shared. And here's a portion of it.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

EVYATAR DAVID, KIDNAPPED FROM THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVAL (through translation): Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. Please save us, please get us home.

GUY GILBOA-DALAL, KIDNAPPED FROM THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVAL (through translation): I want to go home.

DAVID (through translation): Get us home, please, please.

GILBOA-DALAL (through translation): Our friends are going home after 500 days that we were together.

DAVID (through translation): We have been here 500 days.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: More now from Eli David and Guy Dalal, who are the brothers of those hostages. I spoke to them earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: Your families gave permission for that video to be broadcast in Israel, which is obviously a difficult decision. How did your brothers look to you?

ILAY DAVID, BROTHER OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE EVYATAR DAVID: They look sick, terrified, pale, almost yellow. They look - they were begging for us to save them, to help them. The terrorists who filmed them, showed them the releasing parade that they do for the hostages. They saw their friends waving to the camera and go to the Red Cross vehicles. And then they just slammed the door in their faces and put them back inside the tunnels. It was sick. They are not only suffering because they are being held under inhuman conditions. They are also being tortured mentally. And those Barbarians are just holding them and doing whatever they want to them.

And those are our younger brothers, baby brothers. And we'll do anything to protect them and save them and bring them back to our parents.

GAL DALAL, BROTHER OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE GUY GILBOA-DALAL: The hardest part, I think, seeing this video at the beginning was that they looked half the size they were when they were kidnapped.

COOPER: Half the size.

DALAL: Half the size, yes. They both look so skinny right now. And after speaking with the hostages that were them, we understand that they are cuffed most of the times. They are unable to move. They almost don't eat in there. They don't get food.

COOPER: You said they're cuffed?

DALAL: Most of the times, yes. I think we both hoped that when we'll see them, we will see that they were kept in better conditions because of the price that they are worth to Hamas. But that is not the case.

COOPER: It's obviously a propaganda video that they're making, but your families wanted people to see it. Can you explain that?

I. DAVID: We want to see -- we want the world to see Hamas' cruelty. They have to let them go immediately, and we have to show the world that we have to save those people. Evyatar, Guy, there are also 20 other young men being held down there and 40 other hostages.

We have to bring them back. And for them, every day is eternity. And I think America understands that. The -- President Donald Trump understands that. His team understands that. And we see his commitment to the subject.

We understand that they want this agreement to continue. Our brothers are not in the -- they are not at the current list of the first stage of this deal. Because --

COOPER: The first stage is completed in terms of, from the Israeli side, of handing -- of hostages being handed over. It now has to be negotiated, the second stage.

I. DAVID: Exactly. So we actually -- we don't know when Evyatar and Guy are coming back. We have no idea.

DALAL: Yes, I would just like to relate to your previous question. You asked us why we approved so quickly to let these videos out, to publish them. And I think there are two main reasons why we chose to do that. The first reason is we want the world to see Guy and Evyatar are alive. They are alive and they're speaking to us. They're asking us to release them.

The other reason, and for me, maybe it's a more selfish reason, but I think that after Hamas did what they did and they keep playing psychological tricks on us and they're torturing us psychologically, both the hostages and the families of the hostages, I think that Israel needs to make a statement. This cannot keep going.

You can't keep doing that. The next hostages that would be released must be Guy and Evyatar. Must be Guy and Evyatar to prevent this from happening again, to make them realize that they can't take any hostage and make a cynical show out of him.

That's a torture, both for us and the families. It's not about the faces. It's not about the deal. It's simply about being human.

COOPER: Thank you so much for talking to us.

DALAL: Thank you so much for having us.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: Well, that's it for us.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.