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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump Tariffs Gut Markets, U.S. Stocks Suffer $6-Plus Trillion Over Two Days; Interview With Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ); Federal Judge Orders Transfer Of Tufts PhD Student To Vermont, Denies Government Jurisdiction Claim; Federal Judge Orders Trump Admin To Return Man Who Was Mistakenly Deported To El Salvador By End Of Monday; 5-4 Supreme Court Allows Trump To Freeze Roughly $65 Million In Teacher Training Grants. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired April 04, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well, there's his response. All right, KFile, Andrew Kaczynski, thank you very much. And thanks so much to all of you as always for joining us. It's time now for "AC360."
[20:00:29]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, China retaliates and markets tumble and Americans pay the price. A brutal day two, the President tariff rollout tonight as the days ahead could bring the prices jobs in your 401(k).
Also tonight, they admit they made a mistake sending a father to that notorious prison in El Salvador. Now, a judge tells the administration to get him back. The question is, will they?
Good evening. Thanks for joining us.
At the end of a second punishing day for anyone concerned about their investments, their retirement, their jobs and the prices we all pay for virtually everything from coffee to clothing to computers and cars. All of it rides on the tariffs that President Trump rolled out on Wednesday, and the brutal reaction from markets ever since.
For a second straight day, markets tanked. And that won't be the last of it, according to the top economist who joins us shortly. Mark Zandi's warning: Brace for impact.
More impact because even the short term is bad enough. The DOW lost 5.5 percent of its value today. The NASDAQ 5.8 percent, the S&P 500 just shy of six percent.
In all, the last two days of trading have wiped out just around $6 trillion in investments from the S&P 500 alone, which is a big part of 401(k)s and other retirement savings.
Now fueling today's selloff, China's decision to match the 34 percent tariff the President imposed on their goods. Also, this warning from Fed Chairman Jerome Powell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: Well, uncertainty remains
elevated. It is now becoming clear that tariff increases will be significantly larger than expected, and the same is likely to be true of the economic effects, which will include higher inflation and slower growth. The size and duration of these effects remains uncertain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So much uncertainty, he said, that the Fed will essentially do nothing on interest rates until its clear what this all leads to, which in itself is doing little to reassure investors nor some Republican lawmakers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): And so I'm not going to bubble wrap it. What's happening is not good. Now, will it continue? Will we find a bottom and then it will start to go back up? I hope so. That's what I'm pulling for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Senator Kennedy also said we are, "in uncharted waters, we're in the economic unknown." As for the political impact, his Republican colleague Ron Johnson, who calls the tariffs a, "bold and risky move" for addressing global trade issues, also said he's already hearing from constituents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): What President Trump is initiating here, this is a long held belief that he believes that tariffs will correct those problems. But what's also indisputable is the markets are down about eight percent in just two days. And I'm getting all kinds of reaction from businesses, farmers in Wisconsin that are highly concerned about what's happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, it's not hard to understand why his constituents are connected to the global economy, whether its producers or consumers. According to the University of Wisconsin, farmers and food processors there exported more than $3 billion worth of products last year to more than 130 countries around the world.
Those products and most American products and services could get far harder to sell if other countries follow China's lead in imposing counter-tariffs and imported goods here will certainly cost more. iPhones, for example, according to the equity research firm Rosenblatt Securities, tariffs could drive up the cost of them by more than or up to 43 percent. Apple might absorb some or all of the costs, but companies like Volkswagen yesterday have already begun raising prices because of tariffs.
Former Vice President Pence is framing it this way online quoting now, "The Trump tariff tax is the largest peacetime tax hike in U.S. history. These tariffs are nearly ten times the size of those imposed during the Trump-Pence administration, and will cost American families over $3,500.00 per year.
As for his old boss, well, with the markets melting, he went to play golf again. He returned to Mar-a-Lago from a day at one of his golf courses. He arrived just after markets opened, left 32 minutes before the closing bell.
Earlier today, reacting to some unexpectedly good employment figures, he went online posting in all caps. "Great job numbers, far better than expected. It's already working. Hang tough. We can't lose!!"
Unclear whether the phrase its working refers to his tariff rollout. Unless the work in question involves erasing trillions of dollars in market value, raising prices already, and prompting a warning from the Fed chairman about rising inflation and a slowing economy.
And just moments ago, he posted this. "Big business is not worried about the tariffs because they know they are here to stay. But they are focused on the big beautiful deal which will supercharge our economy. Very important going on right now."
Joining us now, Congressman Josh Gottheimer, Democrat of New Jersey. He sits on the Financial Services Committee.
Congressman, thanks for being here. If tanking the global financial markets won't give the President and his allies pause about these tariffs, do you think anything will?
[20:05:17]
REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): I mean, people are panicked, Anderson. I was in a diner this morning talking to an older couple who are on a fixed income, and they are looking at their savings. Their retirement savings just disappeared before their eyes. That was before the end of today, which, of course, as you as you know, as you pointed out, 10 percent loss in the markets.
And that's -- people are looking at not just at their retirement savings, but also about what they're going to have to pay for everything. And so, they're looking at a $3,800.00 tax increase right now on, as you just said, on everything from coffee to cars to clothing, pretty much everything they buy. And they're struggling as it is, right.
So, to come around right now and whack people with more taxes, this tariff tax is crazy. Especially when President Trump ran on trying to make their lives more affordable. And all he's done with his chaos is increased prices on them. And so, I think they're all scratching their heads.
COOPER: You mentioned the couple you spoke to, the President did significantly better in New Jersey, your home state, than he did in prior elections. What do you say to those of your constituents who may say they trust the President, knows what he's doing and has an end game?
GOTTHEIMER: Well, I didn't hear a lot of that. I mean, I heard people say, I don't know how this is going to work, right? I mean, it takes years to build a manufacturing base. And these are a lot of the things they buy every single day. And when they start hearing the Fed chairman, someone pointed out to me this afternoon, they said, well, the Fed chairman saying interest rates are going to go up and there's not going to be, right, or there's not going to be cuts, and the economy is going to slow down and there's going to be more inflation and places like Moody's, you're going to hear from and Goldman Sachs and others said this could -- we could be looking at a recession.
I think you're going to see a lot of people panic and start to say, this is not what we signed up for. And that, I did hear from a Trump voter today who said, I did not sign up for higher costs, higher taxes. What's going on here with all this chaos? And, I think that's what you're going to see more of. And clearly the President just doubled down today on it.
COOPER: You remember the bipartisan Problem Solvers Caucus I don't know how much people speak to people across the aisle anymore these days in Congress, but do your Republican colleagues talk about these tariffs behind closed doors?
GOTTHEIMER: We still talk plenty and what I heard a lot from those I work with today are -- this is not a good direction, right. If you're representing farmers, you're the number one, right, export of soybeans to a lot of countries that's going to get crushed. And I think they understand that if people's 401(k)s keep dropping and costs keep going up, this is not a good recipe for their success. And that's the bottom line.
This chaos instead of common sense, the way the President's been running everything every day is now you see catching up in their pocketbooks and their wallets. And I think when they look at the prices of everything they're buying and they're going to whether it's the car prices and job losses, you're going to see people panic and start to question, finally, what this administration is doing that obviously, many of us have been saying now for weeks. This chaos is a disaster for our country.
COOPER: Republican Congressman Don Bacon from Nebraska told CNN he plans to introduce a bill in the House Monday that would aim to reassert Congress' power over tariffs. Do you think there's a level of economic damage, some sort of red line past which this Republican controlled Congress would actually take tariff power back from the President?
GOTTHEIMER: Well, I spoke to Don today. You know, we talked about this because the President using and claiming everything is a national emergency, and that's why he's put levy these tariffs everywhere from Canada to Mexico to 60 countries. I think you have a lot of people saying, wait, this is not the power we gave away and what the purpose was. And you saw senators, Republican Senators act the same way in their vote to take away, to revoke the 25 percent tariff in Canada. So, I think you're going to start to see and we just heard some of
those people that you played start to finally say, this does not work. This doesn't make any sense. This is hurting the families that I represent directly. And so we need a different direction here. The President may try to double down, but chaos over common sense is not the recipe for success for them.
And by the way, I just think as people face higher and higher costs and their 401(k)s and their retirement savings go down, you're going to see more panic from more Republicans in the coming days.
COOPER: Congressman Josh Gottheimer, thanks for your time.
Joining us now to talk about how this is playing out behind the scenes within the administration, CNN political analyst, Maggie Haberman, White House correspondent for "The New York Times." Interesting. The President chose to go play golf today. I mean, does he --
MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think long ago he stopped caring about certain optics. And he's made very clear during this presidency, he's going to do what he wants. And, you know, it's not just playing golf. He went down to a Saudi backed golf tournament that is his family business does business with to speak at some event related to that. So yes, all of this --
COOPER: -- and did not go to the return of service members.
HABERMAN: -- and did not go to the transfer of the -- the dignified transfer of remains of those fallen service members. He is not messaging this in a way that suggests that he understands what average people might be going through right now. And part of what you know it is, is he is convinced he is right, he is convinced he is going to show people he is right. He has believed in tariffs for 40 years. You know, he wanted to do this last time, and he was stymied by a bunch of advisers who were much more pro-free trade.
[20:10:36]
And now, he is going to do what he's going to do. He's doing it in a very different economy post-COVID. He is doing it on a much broader scale with these tariffs. And I think most significantly, Anderson, with a formula that does not make sense to a lot of people that, you know, once people were looking at what this formula was, it was difficult to comprehend. It's difficult for people in the administration to explain. And they will acknowledge that privately.
So, whether any of this impacts him and his approval numbers, I think is the question. If it starts to, then you will possibly see a change.
COOPER: There were a lot of options he could have done on how the formula was done. Do you know much about behind the scenes of how this was chosen?
HABERMAN: Yes, I mean, this was a formula that was -- I don't want to botch this and this is not my area of strength, but I believe that it was the trade imbalance, the trade deficit with a given country. And he's obsessed with the trade deficit with every country he would talk to in the first term. That was what he wanted to know about before he would talk to their foreign leaders. And then it was divided by some percentage of goods, I think, made in the U.S.
There were other formulas that were suggested. There were other people who wanted exemptions. There were some people who wanted certain exemptions. There were some people who wanted you know, commodities to be exempted. There was the auto exemptions discussion for a while.
Now, you just have these blanket tariffs with huge rates in some cases on goods that are not made in the U.S. in some cases. So, it's not even like its reciprocal.
COOPER: Maggie, I also want to bring in Mark Zandi, Chief Economist at Moody's Analytics. Mark, you warned about a possible recession because of these tariffs. Do you think as of tonight, that's where things are headed. What would -- what kind of benchmarks are you looking to that would indicate that?
MARK ZANDI, CHIEF ECONOMIST, MOODY'S ANALYTICS. Yes, I think we're headed down the rabbit hole. Very likely, you know, the tariffs are a massive tax increase on American consumers and businesses. I mean, if you do the arithmetic, it's the largest tax increase outside of the Vietnam War and World War II.
So it's going to be incredibly difficult for U.S. consumers and business people to kind of digest that. And here's the other thing, Anderson. It's a regressive tax, meaning it really hits low and middle income households a lot harder than high income households. And that's simply because low income households devote a higher share of their budget to imported goods.
And just to give you a number, if, the President implements all the tariff increases that he's already laid forth, the average American household will need to spend $2,100.00 more a year to buy the same goods that they're buying now. So, just kind of think about that in the context of the financial pressure that a lot of households are under. We're going under and, you know, I can go on and on and on. But, you know, we're mostly focused on the near-term consequences of this. But this has enormous long-term consequences.
I mean, the secret sauce of the American economy is our stability. We are the safe haven around the world. So, when things are going bad anywhere in the world or even here in the United States, money comes flowing into the United States. We are money, good. We're AAA, we're the safest place on the planet. And this trade war is completely shattering that stability. And we're going to lose that. And that will cost us dearly for generations to come.
So, this is this is a big deal. This is not just about here and now. It's about the long run.
COOPER: Maggie, he has talked so much about stock markets as a benchmark of things. If the country gets into recession territory, I mean, do you see any sign of him changing his tune on this, saying it's a negotiation and then starting to lead to piecemeal negotiations.
HABERMAN: Yes and I think do you've seen hints of that already in the last two days. He said something about deal making when he was on air force one traveling yesterday. He said something about Vietnam, I think it was wanting a deal on Truth Social earlier today. Everything is the starting point of a negotiation with him. He took a maximalist position here, but it will be he avoids blame at all costs, as you know. And so it certainly won't be, he who says, yes, this was a bad idea. Maybe we shouldn't have done it this way.
There will be some adviser, or maybe several advisers who get blamed. He will rail at Jay Powell, as you noted earlier, who had said that this is heading into inflation territory. He was talking on social media about how the rates should be cut. You know, I think that you will see action in that direction, but it won't do much to improve the country's fiscal outlook. If he does that. So sure, he will maybe pull back. But at that point, a lot of things will have happened.
[20:15:08]
COOPER: Mark, will it make a difference in the markets and therefore to peoples retirement accounts if the President does in fact negotiate with or quickly with other countries, or is there an element of fear now baked in foreseeable future?
ZANDI: Well, I mean, the damage has been done, but, you know, there's still an off ramp here. So, if the President is able to pivot and you know, he's done that in the past and we the trade war begins to abate. The tariffs come down. You know, the economy came into the year performing exceptionally well. Very good spot, four percent unemployment, full employment, we were rip roaring.
So, the fundamentals are good. So, if we can just get beyond the trade war, I think we can get our footing back. So, it's not all lost. It could happen. But I'll have to say, you know, with each passing day you know, growing more nervous that there's no going back here and it just feels like they're more permanent. I mean, just listening to kind of the conversation of rhetoric on so-called liberation day, it doesn't feel like these things -- he's going to take anyone's going to take the off ramp here anytime soon. So thus, there are very high risk that, you know, we're going down the rabbit hole, we're going into recession.
COOPER: Yes, Maggie mentioned what he said on Air Force One. Let's just play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Every country's called us. That's the beauty of what we do, we put ourselves in the driver's seat. The tariffs give us great power to negotiate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HABERMAN: My colleague, Jonathan Swan has a great term, which is this creates a begging economy in Trump's mind, which is that other countries come to him and to his administration and ask for help. You know, are these a negotiating tool or are these a revenue raiser? In his mind, the answer is, yes, right. He thinks they're both and the problem is that those two things don't work together.
And so, you know, it's hard to see him keeping these in place long enough to try to test the theory of whether they will be a revenue raiser. At the same time, they are talking about a tax cut for businesses, which he referenced before.
I just want to say I listened to Congressman Gottheimer saying that he thinks a lot of Republicans are going to suddenly start speaking out. I think that's an amazing amount of optimism, and we'll see.
COOPER: Maggie Haberman, thank you. Mark Zandi, really appreciate it. Thanks so much.
ZANDI: Yes.
COOPER: We're going to have more on the political fallout, how the administration is framing what could be a lot of pain for a lot of voters already is.
Later more breaking news in the case of the father of three deported to that notorious El Salvador prison. A court deadline for returning him. What the administration is saying -- what they're saying about it now?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:21:57]
COOPER: "Hang tough. We can't lose." That was the President's message today in all caps. With markets melting down over his tariffs. Late in the day, shortly after he left his golf course, he posted this also in all caps. "Only the weak will fail." As for one of his top advisers, here's what Stephen Miller said when asked whether tariffs and their impact could trigger a recession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY CHIEF-OF-STAFF OR POLICY AND HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: We inherited from Joe Biden an economy in total freefall. There has been zero jobs growth for American workers in four years. In other words, all jobs growth had gone to foreign workers. That is a depression, not a recession. That is a depression for the American worker. We had an economy that was in a state of calamity and catastrophe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, whatever you think of this guy or whatever you think of the President, his tariffs, his advisers or Joe Biden, or for that matter, the economy was not in a recession, let alone a depression. Rip roaring was how economist Mark Zandi put it before the break, the economy grew at 2.4 percent in the last quarter of 2024, and unemployment was a 10th of a point lower than it is now at 4.1 percent. But depression, that's how the administration is now trying to frame it.
For more on the politics of it all, were joined now by CNN political commentators Paul Begala and Shermichael Singleton.
So, Paul, President Trump campaigned in part on tariffs. He's been complaining for decades about the U.S. getting a raw deal in trade. Should voters and investors in American foreign governments, for that matter be surprised by this, have seen this coming?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, he campaigned a lot. He campaigned on Arnold Palmer's junk. I mean, but the most important thing that got him elected was the promise to lower prices. He repeated that promise again and again and again. The reason he won, much even more than the border, which was a huge issue, was the cost of living. And he's not delivering that.
In fact, he's going the opposite way. And they say, oh, the macroeconomy will turn around in time. People don't live in the macro economy. They live in the macaroni and cheese economy. Okay, and they're watching their life savings in a day going down 10 percent. Everything they worked for all their lives, 62 percent of American's own stock and a hundred percent of Americans eat, wear clothes, drive cars. And he's raising the prices even as he's crushing your life savings. I'm not an economist. That seems to me to be not very good politics, though.
COOPER: Shermichael, I mean, what should President Trump's message be to the millions of Americans, many of whom voted for him, whose retirement accounts, to Paul's point, are tied to the S&P 500, in part?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, Anderson, I think the President's critique of trade in general, having ravaged towns and cities across the country, is pretty spot on. I've talked about this for weeks on our network. I'm not a big free trade guy like many of my fellow Republicans. I think there are a lot of flaws with it, if I'm being honest. I mean, we traded cheaper goods for a lot of really great paying jobs.
The average manufacturing worker in this country makes around $30.00 an hour, and that doesn't include bonuses or overtime. And so, I think he's correct on that. My hope would be that this strategy is temporary, and I would want it to also be a little more strategic, specifically with the focus on China, because I think they're our greatest adversary and they're probably the greatest proprietor of really taking advantage of the United States, in my personal opinion.
COOPER: Does this seem strategic at all. So, you're saying it should be a little more strategic? I mean, is there any strategy here at all that you see? Because it seems pretty across the board, interesting calculus that he's using.
[20:25:19]
SINGLETON: Yes, I can't speak of the calculus. I don't work for the White House. But what I can say to answer that initial question in terms of what the President should communicate to the American people, I think it's simple. We do want to revitalize many struggling cities and towns across the country. We do want some level of reciprocal tariffs so that things are more evenly balanced out. I don't think that argument is wrong. I think most Americans could understand it.
But I do think, politically speaking, we've got to be a little careful here, Anderson, because I think if people start to feel this for too long, then the politics of this just don't look really great for Republicans. And then you sort of put Republicans, specifically those in the House, where our majority is really, really slim and a very tight position, particularly those in tight purple districts or in districts that Kamala Harris may have won. And I am worried about that.
COOPER: So, Paul, I mean, there are a lot of Americans who live in cities and towns, to Shermichael's point that were once industrial hubs and have seen factories shut down, jobs, go overseas, who might like the sound of President Trump saying he's going to bring all sorts of manufacturing and therefore jobs and tax revenue back to the U.S. What do you say to them?
BEGALA: Well, you don't expand your business by attacking your customers. The truth is, Joe Biden brought hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of factories and millions of manufacturing jobs back, but he did it with incentives, not with punishment, and especially not with punishment, hitting the American people.
I mean, you can't have high tariffs and low prices, and the American people want and need low prices. You know, tomorrow you're going to see this politically. By the way, Democrats already won in Wisconsin by ten points. The state that they lost by one. So, they gained 11 points in Wisconsin. They gained 15 points in those Florida districts. They gained 25 points in an Iowa District that I was looking at.
I mean the Democrats are beating the Republicans all over the country, and we suck. I mean, that's how bad the Republicans are with Trump and these tariffs. It's terrible for the country. I hope he repeals them tomorrow. But every Republican we put on the spot to vote, either to repeal the tariffs or to keep the tariffs. And I think it's a long way away. But this could be a landslide effect for the Democrats politically.
SINGLETON: I mean, Anderson, one possible way you could sort of insulate or protect the American worker or American consumer, you'd have to get Congress involved to do this. I'm not sure what the appetite is on the House side, but you could get Congress to pass some type of a tax incentive. So, let's say for a company, if you don't pass on these additional costs to the American consumer, then you will qualify for a tax rebate of some kind.
You could also look at subsidies similar to what we do with electric vehicles for car manufacturers. So there are some very creative ways, depending on how long this lasts, you could protect average working class people in this country. But again, I'm not sure what the legislative appetite is for such legislation. BEGALA: Forgive me for interrupting Shermichael, but those subsidies
were the Biden economic strategy. That's what the Inflation Reduction Act was. That's what the Chips Act was. That's what the bipartisan. I mean, we used those incentives and they worked. And now, Mr. Trump is instead just punishing consumers with higher prices.
COOPER: I got to leave it there. Paul Begala, thank you. Shermichael Singleton, as well.
SINGLETON: Thank you.
COOPER: There's breaking news in two cases tied to the President's deportation campaign. The Turkish graduate student that swept up near Tufts University outside Boston, that woman taken to Louisiana. Also, a court ruling and deadline in the case of the father of three who was mistakenly deported to a notorious prison in El Salvador.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:33:22]
COOPER: There's more breaking news. New developments tonight in two high-profile cases tied to the Trump administration deportation efforts. A federal judge in Boston has transferred the case against the Turkish graduate student at Tufts University to Vermont and denied the government's motion to have it moved to Louisiana where she's being held in an ICE detention center.
Vermont was chosen because that is where Rumeysa Ozturk was detained overnight before she was moved south. Her arrest last week near Boston by some mass federal agents has heightened concerns among a lot of foreign students. Her attorney says she hasn't been charged.
And in Maryland, in a federal courtroom there, a judge ruled the Trump administration must bring back this man, a Maryland father of three, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was deported last month to a draconian prison in El Salvador. The judge set a deadline for his return by 11:59 p.m. Monday night.
Now earlier this week in a court filing, the Trump administration said it made what it called an administrative error when they deported him along with hundreds of other men also detained by federal agents. Those deportation flights are now at the center of a legal battle with Team Trump under a court order to no longer use an 18th century law called the Alien Enemies Act for the deportations.
Well today, the federal Judge Paula Xinis, an Obama appointee, told the Department of Justice attorney "this was an illegal act", those were her words. She also seemed skeptical that Mr. Garcia had ties to the MS-13 gang, saying there wasn't enough evidence.
She told the government, quote, "When someone is accused of membership in such a violent and predatory organization, it comes in the form of an indictment, complaint, criminal proceeding that has a robust process".
[20:35:02]
The President's White House Deputy Chief Of Staff, Stephen Miller, fired back on X, writing, quote, "Marxist judge now thinks she's president of El Salvador".
Joining us now is former federal prosecutor, best-selling author Jeffrey Toobin. So you see the comment from Stephen Miller implying the judge has no power since Garcia is imprisoned in El Salvador.
Do you buy that? And then do you think the White House -- I mean, it seems like the White House has quite a good relationship with the president of El Salvador. If they wanted to get this person out, they could do it.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, Anderson, first of all, I just think it's worth pausing to recognize what a nightmare this case is. I mean, imagine being sent to one of the worst prisons on earth, a place that, as I understand it, almost no one has ever been released from. And you're sent there wrongly.
Even the Trump administration argues -- admits that this should not have happened. So this guy is in one of the worst prisons in the world where he clearly, everyone in the United States agrees, he shouldn't be.
Now, the question is, can he get out? And the Trump administration basically throws up its hands and says, well, it's not our problem anymore. You know, ask the government of El Salvador. And, you know, if the United States government, you know, which, as you point out, has, you know, it does have a good relationship with El Salvador.
If they made an effort, maybe he could get out. But they seem to be saying, we don't really care if he gets out or not. And it's just a nightmarish situation. It was a good ruling for Mr. Garcia today, but whether he actually gets out seems very much an open question.
COOPER: I mean, the administration is actually mocking the judge, saying she thinks she's the president of El Salvador, essentially saying we, you know, this person is in a foreign prison. She has no jurisdiction over this person. Is that the case?
TOOBIN: Well, I mean, I think in a technical legal sense, that is true. I mean, you know, she cannot order the government of El Salvador to release him. But, you know, this is why we have a State Department. This is why we have consular officials in foreign countries to help people who are in trouble with the local criminal justice system.
This is now an official court order in the United States. If the Trump administration was interested in protecting the rights that courts say they should protect the, you know, our government should be trying to get this guy out. Whether they actually do doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon.
COOPER: And in the case of the Tufts student who was arrested by the federal agents on the street, she was taken to Vermont, ultimately to Louisiana, where she's being held now. The government wanted the case transferred to Louisiana. What do you make of the judge's ruling moving it to Vermont? Does that affect things?
TOOBIN: Well, it's certainly a win for her to have it heard in Vermont rather than Louisiana. But the case is still unresolved about whether she actually gets to stay in the country. And the thing that's so concerning about this case is, as far as is publicly known, the only action that lost her visa was writing, co-writing an article in a student newspaper about the Middle East.
Now, it's true that non-citizens don't have the same -- exact same First Amendment rights as American citizens, but that's a pretty low bar to get someone thrown out of the United States if that's the only evidence there is. So that's something that I think is very important in this case that should be sorted out. Now it's going to be in the Vermont court.
COOPER: I want to ask you about the Supreme Court ruling today in the Trump administration's favor, allowing it to freeze millions of dollars, at least temporarily, while the case is appealed in teacher training grants as part of its battle against DEI initiatives. It was a 5-4 decision.
Chief Justice Robert siding with the liberal wing of the court. What do you think this signals about similar cases likely headed there?
TOOBIN: I wouldn't draw too much of a lesson from this. You know, there have been two of these very preliminary rulings in cases coming out of the Trump administration. And the interesting thing is that Amy Coney Barrett has been in the majority in both.
She was against the Trump administration in the first one. She was with the Trump administration in this one. That's why Trump won this case. But the issue was a really narrow one about what's appealable at what stage of the process.
The merits of this case are still going to be decided in the district court. And we'll see what happens at that point.
COOPER: All right, Jeff Toobin, thanks very much.
More now on that Maryland's father's case that Jeff and I talked about. Another woman in the state who was also detained by federal agents. Here's CNN's Polo Sandoval.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation)^ Well then I'm not going to step out. If I don't step out --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. If it's against -- no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
[20:40:02]
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Salvadoran Elsy Noemi Barrios (ph) behind the wheel detained by federal agents in Maryland earlier this week. Her daughter shot the video.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait. Don't grab her like that.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): DHS said in a statement, "This individual has been identified as an associate of the vicious MS-13 gang. Americans can rest assured that she's off our streets and locked up.
Barrios' family was shocked by the allegations, saying their mother has no ties to MS-13 or any gang, adding that she held a valid work authorization while her immigration proceedings were pending. Her daughter saying simply, it's not true.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): The images are sending shockwaves to Maryland Salvadoran community, which is still reeling from the deportation of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, a husband and father who was sent to a notorious mega prison in El Salvador. The Trump administration admitted it was an administrative error.
The government claims that he was associated with the violent Salvadoran gang Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13. DHS said in a statement, "he should be locked up".
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone.
ALL: ICE out of Maryland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we want it?
ALL: Now.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Abrego Garcia's wife disputes the administration's claim and read a statement before a judge ordered her husband be returned to the U.S. no later than Monday.
JENNIFER STEFANIA VASQUEZ SURA, WIFE OF KILMAR ARMANDO ABREGO GARCIA: If I had all the money in the world, I'll spend it all just to buy one thing, a phone call to hear Kilmar's voice again.
JORGE BENITEZ PEREZ, COMMUNITY ORGANIZER: My biggest question is why? Why was he a target? Were you guys trying to make an example? Were you targeting the Salvadoran community?
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Local activist Jorge Benitez Perez fears that speaking out comes with a risk.
PEREZ: Even doing this interview, I thought about it before I came here because I am someone that is not a full citizen. I am someone on a, you know, permanent status, but what is permanent now?
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Beyond his personal concerns, Benitez is deeply worried that members of the Salvadoran community will be mislabeled as gang members detained or even deported by mistake again.
PEREZ: Now, things can just turn like that, where a narrative of gang members, Mara Salvatrucha is being sent, and I'm doing this because I want people to know that's not the reality. That's not who we are, and that's definitely not who my people are.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Like Benitez, elementary school teacher Yakie Palma has noticed heightened fears in the eyes of her students.
YAKIE PALMA, ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHER: Children are scared as well, and it's really impacting their performance in school.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): As a first generation Salvadoran American, Palma says she's formed bonds with migrant parents of her students, many from El Salvador. She recalls a recent conversation with a seven- year-old student.
PALMA: She told me that she was very terrified that she would get deported. Her parents have told me that she is a U.S. Citizen. She was born here, but still it's that widespread fear that if you're Hispanic or if you're Salvadoran, you're going to get deported, right? Because of that racial profiling happening and that affiliation with MS-13.
PEREZ: All throughout like --
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Back in his old neighborhood, Benitez remains hopeful, but also fiercely protective of his community.
PEREZ: This is not the first time our communities have been under attack. We survived four years in the past, and we can do it again.
SANDOVAL (voice-over): Polo Sandoval, CNN, Prince George's County, Maryland.
COOPER: Coming up, one time actor and comedian Russell Brand has been charged with rape and other sexual offenses against four women. We'll have details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:48:04]
COOPER: U.K. police have charged British comedian and actor Russell Brand with rape and several other sexual offences. Prosecutors alleged the incidents happened between 1999 and 2005 and involved four different women. He's denied the allegations.
Police began investigating Brand in September of 2023 after receiving allegations following a joint investigation led by three British media outlets. He's set to appear in court in London early next month.
Now, brand, of course, rose to fame in the 2000s, initially appearing in U.K. reality TV shows and films. He's also been in several Hollywood movies. Recently, he's gained a large following online discussing wellness and religion, conspiracy theories and his battles with drugs and alcohol. He was also married to pop star Katy Perry from 2010 to 2012.
Joining me now is CNN's Julia Vargas Jones. So what more of the authorities saying about this allegation?
JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are saying that these charges come after a careful review of evidence, Anderson. It's alleged that one woman was raped in 1999 in Burnemouth, southern England. One woman indecently assaulted in London's Westminster area in 2001.
A third woman was orally raped and sexually assaulted in 2004, also in the Westminster area of London. And then a fourth woman sexually assaulted between 2004 and 2005 in London's Westminster area as well.
The Met police also said that this investigation started, as you said, after an investigation led by three media, British media outlets, The Sunday Times, The Times and Channel 4's Dispatches. He is being charged with offences that include rape, sexual assault and indecent assault.
COOPER: And what he said in response to these charges?
VARGAS: Well, he has denied these allegations since they're surfacing in 2023. And he has doubled down on that today, Anderson. He posted a video statement on X. He said basically when he was young and single before he had his wife, that he was a fool, that he was a fool before he lived in the light of the Lord.
[20:50:07]
He said he was a drug addict, a sex addict and an imbecile. Those are his words. But he says what he never was, was a rapist and he never engaged in non-consensual sexual activity. And he asked his viewers to please see that by looking in his eyes.
This is the kind of tone that he has struck in his in recent years. You know, he's been thinking the messages of support that he's received from his viewers. He has millions of viewers on YouTube where he talks about those battles with drug and alcohol addiction.
It's part of this bigger discourse on wellness that he's brought, as well as several conspiracy theories that he has talked about on his online channels.
COOPER: All right, Julia Vargas Jones, thanks very much.
Coming up next, the new baseball bat created by a former MIT physicist turned Major League staffer and the buzz it's created. I'll talk it over with Harry Enten.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:55:50]
COOPER: So I don't know much about baseball, but even I am fascinated by this new baseball bat that is causing a stir in Major League Baseball, it's called the torpedo bat. That's a picture of it.
The new season has just begun. The bats are already getting a lot of attention. I read about this. Since I knew nothing about it, I called Harry Enten, our chief data analyst, who's all about baseball. So what is that -- this is not the torpedo bat. This is a Louisville slugger.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA REPORTER: No, this is not a torpedo bat.
COOPER: What is the -- what's the story in the torpedo bat?
ENTEN: OK, so this is a Louisville slugger from our dear friend Mr. John Berman. We took it from his office. It's a Fred Lynn autograph bat. And basically the difference is you have your sweet spot right here, OK?
COOPER: Yes.
ENTEN: This is the traditional sweet spot. What the torpedo bat does is bring that sweet spot down more towards the center of the bat. Why is that?
COOPER: When you say the sweet spot, you mean the wood -- they make the wood thicker down here?
ENTEN: Correct. They make the wood thicker down here because the ball is more likely to hit this part of the bat. And therefore, you want your sweet spot to hit the ball because the ball might go further. And more than that, it makes the bat feel lighter and so that the player can get around the bat faster.
COOPER: But -- let me take your ball there.
ENTEN: Yes, take my ball.
COOPER: I got it.
ENTEN: Thank you.
COOPER: Now, didn't some team innovate this?
ENTEN: Yes. So one of the things --
COOPER: Like they noticed that their players were hitting with lower on the bat, so they changed their bat. I didn't know you could change a bat in baseball.
ENTEN: You can absolutely change about outside of the rules being that the bat can only be, I believe, 42 inches long. And I believe at its thickest part be something like 2.61 inches in diameter. You can change the bat. And so essentially it was this MIT physicist as you were hinting at --
COOPER: Do we have another picture of the torpedo bat because we're showing an old bat. I'd like to see the Torpedo bat.
ENTEN: Show the torpedo bat. You can get that first slide up if you want to get it back up. There you go.
COOPER: So it's just -- it is -- it's thicker -- the wood is heavier down lower.
ENTEN: It's heavier down there, does not --
COOPER: And that -- and so what team was doing that? And they got a lot of home runs, right?
ENTEN: Correct. So it's the New York Yankees, the dreaded New York Yankees. I wish nothing but 14 in games played in rain for the New York Yankees. You should root for the government in an income tax suit over the New York Yankees.
And basically, basically what the Yankees did was they decided, in fact, five of their players are using the Torpedo bat, putting, you know, of course, the sweet spot towards the center of the barrel. And take a look at their stats. How many home runs have they been hitting this year?
COOPER: Let's see.
ENTEN: Let's see. What you see is they are hitting 3.3 home runs per game in 2025.
COOPER: Wow.
ENTEN: By far, the tops only get that. That's triple, triple the --
COOPER: All because of the bats?
ENTEN: It's a large part of it. Aaron Judge is also hitting a lot of home runs. He's not using it. But a lot of the players on the Yankees are and they believe it is --
COOPER: So now are other teams has now like a big bat rush?
ENTEN: There is a big bat rush. In fact, I wanted to get a torpedo bat, but they're basically sold out everywhere. It would have cost a ton to get it. So instead, we were using Johnny Berman's great Fred Lynn bat, of course, ALMVP in 1975.
COOPER: So have there been other unusual bats in history or?
ENTEN: Yes, this is what I love, right? The torpedo bat isn't the first unusual bat, right? So there was the banana bat, which was this idea, in fact, we're going to make it much harder to hit. This was like in the 1890s. You can see the sort of shape there.
COOPER: OK.
ENTEN: There was the bottle bat, Heinie Groh, in fact, used the bottle bat. He was a great Cincinnati Red. And the zebra bat, it tried to design it to distract the pitcher. And that was by Goose Gossage (ph). But MLB said no way, Jose.
COOPER: All right. Harry Enten, thanks very much.
ENTEN: Thanks so much.
COOPER: Quick programming note, new episode of United States of Scandal. Jake Tapper follows the story of Anna Delvey, who managed to convince New York's elite of her fictitious backstory as a German heiress. It's a fascinating story.
Despite her eventual theft conviction, Delvey's celebrity continued to grow with people fascinated by her web of lies and deception. Here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Is it an act or is she the most powerful type of liar? The one who truly believes that on some level, the lies she tells are built on a fundamental truth.
TAPPER: How do you see yourself? I mean, you know, a lot of people think you're a con artist. Do you see yourself like that?
ANNA DELVEY, CON ARTIST: Not at all. I think if anybody bothers to look into my criminal case, I never plan to like permanently defraud anyone of anything.
TAPPER: I mean, you did tell lies.
DELVEY: Yes.
TAPPER: Even if you thought that ultimately --
DELVEY: Yes.
TAPPER: -- things were going to happen, you did tell lies about wire transfers and stuff.
DELVEY: Yes, but I think it's different had I like -- had I known that whoever I'm talking to, they will never get their money back. That was never my mindset.
TAPPER: You thought it was all going to work out?
DELVEY: Yes. It's not like my project was something completely fantastical.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The more she got away with, the more she felt she could get away with. She thinks, well, why can't I get $50 million? It's a megalomania of a kind, I guess, and also somewhat justified.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
TAPPER: That's fascinating. The new episode of "United States of Scandal with Jake Tapper" airs Sunday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Pacific right here on CNN. That's it for us. The news continues. Have a great weekend. I'll see you Monday. "The Source" starts now.
