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Judge Boasberg Rules In Emergency Hearing He Has No Power To Block Trump Administration's Deportation Under Alien Enemies Act; Federal Judge Orders Tufts Student Who Was Pulled Off Street By Masked Plainclothes Officers Returned From Louisiana Detention; U.S. Prepared To Recognize Russian Control Of Crimea As Rubio Suggests Time Running Out To Broker Ukraine Peace; Victims Of FSU Shooting Identified; Some Weight Loss Medication Users Experience "Plateau"; Pope Francis, Recovering From Serious Illness, Prepares For Easter Weekend As Pilgrims Hope For A Glimpse. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 18, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[20:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360. Breaking news on multiple legal fronts in deportation cases pitting the White House against a string of judges including one who says he's got reason to find the administration in contempt.

Also tonight, is time running out for a U.S. broker peace deal over the warn in Ukraine. And Dr. Sanjay Gupta on what happens when the miracle fades and patients discover limits of those new weight loss drugs?

Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news on multiple separate but related legal cases, any or all of which could lead to a constitutional crisis.

Late today, Federal District Judge James Boasberg called an emergency hearing after reports the government was planning imminent deportations under the Alien Enemies Act and moments ago, he issued a ruling. Details from our Evan Perez just ahead.

You may remember Judge Boasberg has already ordered a pause in such deportations, and earlier this week ruled that there is probable cause now to hold the administration in contempt for violating that order. In a related action, those same migrants today asked the Supreme Court to stop their removal under the Alien Enemies Act as well. And late today, a federal judge in Vermont ordered a Turkish Tufts University student seen here in that awful arrest by masked plain-clothed officers be brought back to his jurisdiction from a Louisiana detention facility by May 1st. That's the deadline.

All this comes on the heels of a major new developments in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. A month and three days ago, federal agents took him from Maryland, where he lived with his wife and three children, flew him to El Salvador, deposited him in a prison from which human rights watch says no one has ever been released.

Since then despite admitting early on that they mistakenly deported him, the Trump administration has dug in its heels now on getting him back, and is now on a constitutional collision course with a federal judge, a federal appeals panel, and a unanimous Supreme Court, all of whom have said, in one way or another that this man must be brought back to the U.S.

Late last night, we learned that Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen managed to speak with Abrego Garcia beyond the prison walls. Late today, the senator briefed reporters on that meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): I told him that millions of Americans understand that what is happening to him is a threat to their own constitutional rights. I told them about the decisions of the federal courts, the district court, the fourth circuit court, the Supreme Court. And I think that in addition to knowing that his family was fighting for him, all of that gave him strength.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The senator also said that Abrego Garcia told him he had been moved from that CECOT prison to another detention center nine days ago. In addition, he suggested the Salvadoran government stage managed this meeting, seen here, making it poolside, even delivering drinks. Which fits in with this tweet from the country's president. Quoting now, "Kilmar Abrego Garcia miraculously risen from the death camps and torture, now sipping margaritas with Senator Van Hollen in the tropical paradise of El Salvador."

The White House weighed in as well this morning with this edited "New York Times" front page describing Abrego Garcia as an MS-13 illegal alien. The White House adding oh, and by the way, Chris Van Hollen, he is not coming back. Later in the day, the President himself weighed in on Van Hollen and Abrego Garcia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Look, he's a fake. I know him, I know them all they're all fake and they have no interest in that prisoner. That prisoner's record is unbelievably bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So the facts, the district judge in this case has ruled, and I'm quoting here, "No evidence before the court connects Abrego Garcia to MS-13 or any other criminal organization." And though he entered the country unlawfully, a judge in 2019 ruled that he may not be deported because of well-founded threats to him and his family back in El Salvador. So much to get through tonight. A lot of court decisions coming in quickly. Let's get right to our senior justice correspondent, Evan Perez. About this ruling here in D.C.

So, here's a judge who is quite decisively stood up to this administration or attempted to saying here, he cannot stand in the way. Can you explain what happened? EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, right. So, this is Judge James Boasberg, and obviously he's been very troubled by the conduct of the administration with regard to the handling of these Venezuelan migrants who have been declared enemies under the Alien Enemies Act. And in this case, he's saying, look, I'm -- I sympathize with what you're asking me here. This is a group of Venezuelan migrants who say that they believe they're about to be imminently deported from the United States.

They've been given notices. They showed a copy of this to the judge today, which essentially declares them to be enemies under this act. And so, what he is saying is that he doesn't have the power to intervene at this point.

Now, these men have also filed petitions with the fifth circuit court of appeals, which oversees Texas, which is where they're being held right now. They also filed a request with the Supreme Court.

[20:05:26]

Now, during this hearing, one of the things that was at issue was whether these men are actually about to be deported or not. And the justice department lawyer said, I don't believe anybody is being put on planes anytime soon. And so the judge actually put a recess. They took a break for about 20 minutes where he went and made some phone calls, came back and said, we don't believe, you know, there's no plans to put anybody on planes tonight or tomorrow.

However, they do reserve the right to do so. And so, the judge really has no ability to stop this, because you remember, the Supreme Court already ruled that he doesn't really have jurisdiction over these men. They're being held in Texas.

SCIUTTO: Well, we'll see how those other courts rule. Evan, stick around, because I do want to get to CNN chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins, anchors "The Source" of course, of course, in the next hour.

So, Kaitlan, quite a big decision, one that the administration has been watching quite closely. What's been their reaction to this tonight?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We haven't heard from them yet beyond, obviously, this was argued in court since the judge scheduled this hearing just shortly before, it was an emergency hearing. It was done over Zoom at about 6:15 P.M. And obviously, this is the same judge that the President has been blasting and multiple occasions calling for his impeachment, as have many of his Republican allies here. And so, they were watching this closely. But essentially, what the judge is arguing here is that he doesn't have jurisdiction over this.

That is what the Supreme Court ruled, that it belongs to Texas, as Evan noted there. And that is something that the White House has repeatedly pointed to, even when Judge Boasberg this week was getting into the territory of potentially holding Trump officials in criminal contempt for withholding information from him.

And so, they were essentially arguing that they weren't that worried about it. That's what they were telling me, because he doesn't have jurisdiction over this. As the Supreme Court said, it should be in Texas, where those detention centers are, where the migrants are leaving from.

And so, that's an open question tonight, as still, as to what that looks like. And obviously, that is what the attorneys are waging in court, Jim. But in the public case, we are seeing President Trump respond today after we saw Senator Chris Van Hollen coming in, emerging out of El Salvador this afternoon after he became one of the first people to sit down with Kilmar Abrego Garcia and was essentially detailing his detention, revealing new information, including about the fact that he's no longer being held at that prison, how much the Trump administration is paying El Salvador to take these migrants.

Previously, we had heard about $6 million. Senator Van Hollen said tonight, he was told it is closer to $15 million. But the White House is still holding firm on their position that they are not returning Abrego Garcia to the United States. As Trump's border czar told me last night, they believe that that judgment that came in 2019 from an immigration judge who I should note, technically worked under President Trump saying that he could stay in the United States or be deported to anywhere, but El Salvador. They're now describing that as meaningless. And so whether or not that shows up in a court argument and a court filing is still something that remains to be seen tonight.

SCIUTTO: Listen, that's a good point, right? Because there's a law here. And then there's the politics. And there are things that and accusations that Trump administration officials will make in public or via Twitter, et cetera, Truth Social that they're not making in court here. I wonder what are the next steps for the administration? Do they believe they're at least winning the political side of this argument?

COLLINS: Yes and they believe that they're also going to win the legal side of this. Now, that remains to be seen, because what these two judges have made clear in the separate but related instances of this is that they want more information and they want answers. And the question of whether or not the administration refuses to provide that information is really going to be the test of what has slowly been creeping up to be this, this battle between the power of the judicial branch and the power of the executive branch.

And so that is something that remains to be seen. They still feel pretty confident about it, but obviously we have to watch it. But on the political front, yes, they feel like this is something that they would like to be talking about instead of tariffs or any of the other issues that had been dominating the headlines before this.

They feel that on immigration, given the nuances in this situation and what we've been talking about here. And I'll just note that tonight, President Trump was posting a photo of the hand of Abrego Garcia, which he claimed had the tattoos that depicted MS-13. But on the photo it had actually MS-13 written out on it. That is not actually a tattoo. Instead, it's the symbols that are tattooed on his fingers. And so that's the question also for the White House, as they are very much continuing to put out their version of this and argue that politically they think this is good for them.

SCIUTTO: Well, and then, listen, it's not evidence that at least been shown or proven in court. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And we will, of course, see you at the top of the hour when one of your guests will be Kilmar Abrego Garcia' lawyer.

Right now, let's bring in former federal prosecutor Alyse Adamson, along with Evan Perez and CNN legal analyst and former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Elliot Williams. So, Elliot, what happens here now? So, so in effect, Judge Boasberg, as Evan was explaining, says, I can't do this right now. How quickly does it go to potentially the Court of Appeals and perhaps the Supreme Court?

[20:10:15]

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think immediately. And I think, well, maybe not the Supreme Court immediately. Certainly, I think a court in Texas will be hearing this soon. Now, to be clear, he's ruling consistent with what the Supreme Court ruled a week or so ago, saying that the venue for these cases, these challenges to deportations under the aliens act, needed to happen in the place where the people were, were imprisoned or incarcerated and needed to be filed as habeas corpus cases, challenges to their detention. That's in Texas, I would assume cases, if they haven't been filed yet, will be filed in Texas and will move up pretty quickly from there to the appeals court, which is in New Orleans.

SCIUTTO: Okay. So, Alyse, it's of course, the second time the administrations use of the Alien Enemies Act would land in front of the Supreme Court. First time the court stressed the deportees should receive notice. They're subject to the act and have an opportunity to have their removal reviewed, at least by a federal court.

Is that how you expect? First of all, this happening here? And then I imagine, what is your judgment as to where the Supreme Court would go if it does come before them again?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, there's two issues that need to come before the Supreme Court, because recall, all the Supreme Court ruled on was the venue issue. They did not reach the merits of the case, which is whether or not the President has properly invoked the Alien Enemies Act to begin with. So, I expect that litigation to end up in front of the Supreme Court as well.

However, now there's this question of what is notice and opportunity mean? We saw it during the court hearing today in front of Judge Boasberg that these individuals were given a notice and then 24 hours prior to removal. Is that true opportunity to contest the removal? There's also nothing on the form that allows them to indicate that they would like to contest a removal. So I expect that to go up to the fifth circuit. My understanding is there's already some action in the fifth circuit, and then that to be appealed to the Supreme Court as well. SCIUTTO: I mean, so many of these cases come down to the question of due process, right. So, Evan, separately, we have this case of the Turkish Tufts University student detained in that video that we've shown so many times by masked law enforcement agents. The federal judge today ordered she be moved from Louisiana back to Vermont. Significant. Why?

PEREZ: Well, because, you know, he's going to have a hearing. The judge is going to have a hearing, and they want this person to be brought back to that jurisdiction. And look for the government, they've been wanting to fight these in Texas, in Louisiana, this is the fifth circuit. It's very conservative. It is the circuit that has given Trump pretty much anything he wants. And certainly Republicans have anything they wanted when the Biden administration was in power.

And so, that's the venue they want. It's much more friendly set of courts, you know, that they want to fight in. And so, if you can bring this case back to the jurisdiction again in Massachusetts. Now, that would make things a lot different, perhaps. And, you know, it sets up perhaps a different sets of challenges for the government.

I will say real quick, if you look at the form, we saw this in the court hearing today, that was given to these men in Venezuela, the Venezuelan migrants who were being held in Texas. There is no place for them to say that they want to challenge. It's also an English, which means, you know, a lot of them don't understand and cannot read this. And so, one of the things that Judge Boasberg said in the hearing today was he believed this is in violation of the Supreme Court and what the Supreme Court ordered.

So, that also may be something that will be probably be challenged there.

SCIUTTO: So, two questions of evidence which have been consistent in a number of these cases. Right. How are you exactly substantiating these allegations of gang ties in the case of the Tufts University student, the only evidence that's been presented that that she somehow a radical tied to terrorists, et cetera, was an op-ed she wrote in her campus newspaper. I read that op-ed and the op-ed is quite measured. It talks about boycotting Israeli products and so on.

If the judge finds that was the sole reason for detention, what would happen next?

WILLIAMS: So it's two things. So, I think she can challenge it on an in an immigration court, which is a court in the executive branch under the Justice Department, as Kaitlan was suggesting earlier and separately raise a First Amendment challenge, saying that, you know, my ability and right to speak as someone in the United States was impeded when the government tells someone they can't speak based on what their viewpoint is. That's called viewpoint discrimination and violates the First Amendment.

Now, I want to be clear, immigration authorities have a vast power and discretion to decide who can come and who can stay, and who can even get a temporary student visa or work visa or whatever else. So, you have two competing interests here, but the First Amendment is a really big one. And a federal court, I would think even a conservative court might not look kindly at getting in the way of someone's op-ed if it's just speech.

[20:15:34]

SCIUTTO: So, Alyse, as I understand it, one way the administration has tried to get around that or one legal justification they've used is, this State Department power to declare these actions as being contrary to the interests of U.S. foreign policy, right? I mean, from a legal standpoint, does that stand up?

ADAMSON: Well, they're hoping it will stand up. I mean, this is what we're seeing the administration do across all of these cases, right? They're asserting some kind of foreign policy, argument and then saying that because of that, these individuals are not afforded judicial review. And so, while it is true that the executive branch does enjoy a lot of discretion when it comes to foreign policy decisions of national security, I think the real issue here is due process.

If they are saying that this young lady has ties to Hamas, she still has an opportunity to refute that, she still has due process rights. They can't just say that she has ties to Hamas and that be it. And we are seeing that across all of these cases, from Tren de Aragua to Abrego Garcia, where they're saying he's MS-13 and now saying that this young lady is related to Hamas.

SCIUTTO: Yes, based on a -- and by the way, again, I read that op-ed does not show or even espouse pro-Hamas views. Before we go, Elliot, in the midst of all this, the White House says today regarding Abrego Garcia, he's never coming back.

Granted, that's not in court. Its via Truth Social. It certainly at least doesn't show that they're ready and willing to abide by the courts decisions.

WILLIAMS: To be clear, his own Justice Department admitted in court that Abrego Garcia's removal was an error. They said that, regardless of the fact that whether they backed off it. So, perhaps and I think it's fair to get our heads around, he may not come to stay in the United States and be granted citizenship or a visa or whatever else.

But there is a scenario in which he at least gets a hearing and gets an opportunity to rebut some of these challenges and if the government wishes to then remove him thereafter, that's perfectly fine and in comport with the law. But this idea that you can spirit someone away in violation of the law and not back down from it process

SCIUTTO: I mean, that's what all of us would expect if we were accused of wrongdoing

PEREZ: One quick thought. I mean, I do think that they also could send him to third countries and resolve all of this.

SCIUTTO: Interesting. All right. Well, Alyse, Evan, Elliot, thanks so much to all of you. Not the last time we talk about this.

Coming up next, the U.S. running out of patience with the effort to end the war in Ukraine or is it giving more ground to one side? I'm going to ask a leading lawmaker and Americas former NATO Supreme Allied Commander.

Later, all were learning about the two men whose lives were taken by a mass shooter at Florida State University. Their stories just ahead on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:22:49]

SCIUTTO: Russia today marked Good Friday with yet another missile attack, this one on a residential section of Kharkiv. It hit an apartment building in the Ukrainian City with missiles packing cluster munitions, which are designed to kill people. The strike killed one, wounded at least 67.

In Paris, Secretary of State Rubio signaled that the U.S. is running out of patience when it comes to brokering a peace deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The President has spent 87 days at the highest level of his government, repeatedly taking efforts to bring this war to an end. We are now reaching a point where we need to decide and determine whether this is even possible or not. If this is not possible, we're going to need to move on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Later today, the President himself weighed in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If for some reason one of the two parties makes it very difficult, were just going to say you're foolish, you're fools, you're horrible people, and we're going to just take a pass. But hopefully we won't have to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The President declined to say whether he's prepared to walk away completely from those talks separately and perhaps confusingly. CNN has learned tonight about new concessions the administration is prepared to make to Russia. An official tells CNN that recognizing Russian control of Crimea, which Russia took by its first invasion of Ukraine in 2014, is part of a new proposal which has been communicated to the Kremlin. In any case, all this far more complicated than the President's once promised over and over again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want everybody to stop dying -- they're dying, Russians and Ukrainians. I want them to stop dying. And I'll have that done in 24 hours. I'll have it done.

If I'm President, I will have that war settled in one day, 24 hours.

That is a war that's dying to be settled. I will get it settled before I even become President.

Before I even arrive at the Oval Office shortly after we win the presidency, I will have the horrible war between Russia and Ukraine settled.

I will have the horrible war between Russia and Ukraine settled. I will get it settled quickly.

I will have the horrible war between Russia and Ukraine settled. We're going to get it settled and stop the death.

I will end the war in Ukraine. I will get it stopped very quickly. I will end the war in Ukraine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:25:15]

SCIUTTO: One thing you never heard him say there is that it is Russia that invaded Ukraine twice.

Joining us now, Illinois Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley, who co- chairs the House Ukraine Caucus. Thank you so much for joining us this Friday night.

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Thank you. Good to be back.

SCIUTTO: I wonder what you hear from Secretary Rubio and the President when they say that they're running out of patience with the peace talks here? Is that patience specifically with Russia? Because we should note, it's been more than a month since Ukraine has agreed to the president's ceasefire.

QUIGLEY: Look, it's what I don't hear. I don't hear President Trump say who he wants to win the war. You know, and with Secretary Rubio, I would say it's impossible or its extremely difficult because Putin is slow footing this. He's the one who's committing additional atrocities. Over 90 percent of their attacks are on civilian targets. What pressure has he exerted on Russia? Absolutely nothing. In the meantime, he's blamed Ukraine and Zelenskyy for the war.

If they had the courage of their convictions, they'd go where I went to Bucha and stood on the mass graves caused by Putin's atrocities, or the maternity hospital that was flattened or talked to the families of the tens of thousands of Russian kids that were kidnapped and taken into Russia. He's slow -- Putin is slow footing it because he knows Trump will never provide additional aid. He has four to six times the manpower to draw than Ukraine has, and he knows that. This will divide NATO, which helps him.

He understands that when the Vice-President says NATO, you're on your own. This is a victory and he can take his time.

SCIUTTO: As you said, CNN is learning tonight the Trump administration is ready to recognize Russian control of Crimea. We have not heard exactly what, if anything, the U.S. is demanding in return from Russia for that recognition of territory that it, of course, took illegally by force in 2014.

I do know that most people I talked to have said for years that Ukraine is almost certainly not going to get Crimea back, but would this be a good and smart concession to make now without it being clear what Russia would be giving in return?

QUIGLEY: It's negotiations one on one, you don't make any sort of concessions. You don't give things up without something in return, or at least knowing what there might be again.

The things that aren't talked about are of great concern. Where are the security assurances? Who's going to rebuild Ukraine? How are they going to hold Putin and Russia accountable? This is all one sided.

Look, autocrats have a feather flock together. This has something to do with the fact that trump feels closer to Putin than he does Zelenskyy and Ukraine, and perhaps in bizarre fashion, maybe he just blames Ukraine for his first impeachment.

So, whatever the cause is, it's clear he isn't cheering for Ukraine and it's going to be very difficult for Ukraine to mount a defense if were out of there.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Quigley, we do appreciate you joining us on this Good Friday.

QUIGLEY: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Joining us now, retired Army General, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Wesley Clark, also CNN contributor; Jill Dougherty, currently an adjunct professor at Georgetown, longtime service for CNN in Moscow. Good to have you both here.

General Clark, let me ask you this question. If the Trump administration walks away not just from these peace talks, but from Ukraine, washes it's hands on the war and ceases U.S. Military support for Ukraine, what happens then? Can Ukraine, on its own and with European support, keep fighting?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think Ukraine has to keep fighting, but I don't think it's likely to be very successful in the long term because of the overpowering manpower strength. Plus China, Iran, North Korea providing assistance. And I'm already hearing that the administration is not only preparing to walk away, but prepared to put pressure on our allies not to support Ukraine, and possibly by using tariffs as leverage against our allies, not to support Ukraine.

And Jim, I think it's a horrible negotiating strategy. If we've made one concession after another to Moscow. We've never gotten anything for it. And these poor people in Ukraine are fighting for the very values that we Americans hold dear. It's just inconceivable.

SCIUTTO: Jill, how does Russia read all of this? How would Russia read a concession of Crimea this early in a negotiation in which Russia has given up nothing and continues to fight and carried out a Good Friday attack on civilians today, and a Palm Sunday attack on civilians a week ago. Does Russia smell weakness?

[20:30:26]

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I'll tell you, Jim, this would be a huge victory for Putin. I mean, I covered -- I was in Moscow when the illegal annexation of Crimea took place. It was extraordinarily popular. The war right now is not that popular in Russia, but taking over Crimea illegally was.

And so, if Putin can say, yes, I got it back, I mean, I remember there were signs. People were, you know, Kyrm Nash, Crimea is ours. And, you know, just for the record, I went on to the State Department site just a few minutes ago, and it says the U.S. government recognizes Crimea is part of Ukraine.

It does not and will not recognize the purported annexation of Crimea. And then it lists all sorts of human rights violations. So this is very big. I mean, one thing -- it's one thing to say, yes, they hold the territory. Let's see, you know, that thing.

But when you say the United States is going to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, that to me is really, really major and really inflammatory for many people.

SCIUTTO: General Clark, as you know, that the concern, not just in Ukraine, which is fighting for its existence as a country, but more broadly in Europe, is that if Russia wins even partially in Ukraine and is able to take territory by force, that it will learn from that, that it could do it again, wherever that might be, including possibly on current NATO allies, perhaps the Baltics. Do you believe that that is a reasonable fear?

CLARK: Absolutely reasonable. In fact, we can already see the Russian preparations in Belarus. They're pointing at the Suez Gap. They're talking about a big exercise in Belarus in the summer, a preparatory exercise, possibly just like they ran before they came into Ukraine.

Yes, I think, you know, we're on the verge of a real catastrophe in Europe if the United States doesn't stand firm at this time.

SCIUTTO: Jill, you know, it's been interesting since that Oval Office meeting, infamous between Zelenskyy and Trump, is that Zelenskyy has not been pulling his punches. He's been quite forthright in his public statements, even in the last couple of days, saying that Steve Witkoff, President Trump's envoy to Russia, is pushing Russian narratives in terms of his description of the war, which, by the way, he is, right?

I mean, he's repeating Russian talking points, for instance, about what the Ukrainians in the eastern part of the country want. I wonder, is it possible that if the U.S. walks away, even if it cuts off military support to Ukraine, that Ukraine, with European help, says, you know what, we're out of these peace talks, too. We're going to keep fighting.

DOUGHERTY: Well, they can keep fighting. But as the general said, they don't have as much, you know, manpower and equipment. Now, the Europeans are saying that they will get together and, you know, provide as much as they can. But they are not equal to the capacity of the United States.

So I think, you know, it's really -- at this point, I think Putin's looking at this saying, how far, how much can I get from President Trump? And he will put as far as he can. And then maybe if there's some pushback, which we haven't seen yet, he will stop. But he is going to go. He's going to get every inch he can.

SCIUTTO: Yes, it's notable because before the election, there was a lot of reporting. And I heard similar that Putin was waiting until after the election to see if he got a more favorable leader in the White House. And perhaps the waiting was worth it for him.

General Wesley Clark, Jill Dougherty, thanks so much to both of you.

We do have a quick update now on our top story. The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals has just called a halt to Justice James Boasberg's plan to hold contempt proceedings on whether the Trump administration previously defied his orders on deportation. This, we should note, is separate from tonight's appeal by Venezuelan migrants to the Fifth Circuit and Supreme Court.

Up next, an update on the investigation into yesterday's mass shooting at Florida State University. My conversation with a student who heard those first gunshots and had to run for his life. You'll want to hear from him.

And later, is there a ceiling to the amount of weight that popular medications for obesity and diabetes can help someone lose? Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:39:38]

SCIUTTO: We now know the names of the two people killed in yesterday's mass shooting at Florida State University. Such a sad, familiar scene it was. Robert Morales was a dining coordinator at the university and a Florida State graduate himself. His brother posted online that Robert was a loving husband and father. He previously served as an assistant football coach at a nearby high school.

[20:40:00]

Tiru Chabba, a 45-year-old father of two, was also killed, according to a statement released by attorneys representing his family. He was an employee of Aramark, that's a Philadelphia-based food service company. Five other victims are being treated for their injuries at Tallahassee Memorial Hospital. They're in stable condition, expected, thankfully, to make a full recovery. The 20-year-old suspect is also expected to survive after he was shot by police.

Authorities say they recovered an AR-15-style rifle inside the vehicle he drove to campus. That, in addition to a shotgun and a pistol found at the scene. That pistol belonged to the alleged shooter's mother, who is a local sheriff's deputy herself.

Chris Joseph is a sophomore at FSU. He was setting up a stage in the Student Union when he heard the first shots. His active shooter training kicked in immediately as he ran for his life. I spoke to him a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SCIUTTO: Chris, first, I just got to acknowledge for you and for everybody watching what a tough day this is after such a frightening day yesterday. And I know you're standing there in front of the memorials that have been put up. Tell us how you're doing.

CHRIS JOSEPH, WITNESS: I'm doing better than yesterday. Did a lot of crying yesterday, a lot of emotions, a lot of fear, pure fear, actually.

SCIUTTO: Yes.

JOSEPH: But I think I was able to process a lot of it. I'm still definitely processing it right now. I'm going to church tonight, so I'm probably going to cry even more there. But, yes, I'm getting through it though.

SCIUTTO: Can you share how yesterday went for you? What was the first sign to you that something was wrong?

JOSEPH: I was on campus trying to see the set up for the stage that we had for an event later with the Black Student Union. They had just finished and I had looked around, seeing everything was good. And as I walked away towards MPHC Park, I heard the first shot go off and I looked around and it seemed like everyone was kind of just looking around as well.

And we were all kind of confused. And then a multitude of shots went off. And that's when I began to run. And as I ran, I realized that, you know, I was running for my life and I had to run faster.

SCIUTTO: God, the moment realizing you're running for your life. How did you make it to safety then?

JOSEPH: So, I was able to -- first, I threw off my sandals because I realized they were slowing me down. I got to the garage, Traditions Garage, where I had parked my car and I hopped in my car. A random girl hopped in my car as well, as well as a friend of mine's hopped in the car as well. And we just drove off campus. SCIUTTO: Wow. So that gunshot was the first sign of trouble for you. Listen, I have to say, as I watch these shootings play out and as a reporter, I've seen too many of them to count. Those images are so familiar of students running, right, running for their lives.

And when I was younger, these were so rare. For you, you grew up with this, right? You grew up with drills in elementary school, high school, college. How do you process that, right, beyond the day, how do you process the wider threat?

JOSEPH: I would say it's difficult because you hear about it all the time, especially the people who grew up. I was born in 2005. And since then, I've always heard about shootings throughout my entire life, elementary, middle school, high school, college.

You're always hearing about shootings in different areas. So it's like, it's kind of a situation where you're prepared for it, but you're not really prepared for the emotional aspect of it. You're just prepared for the physical of getting yourself safe. But it's just -- you can't explain to somebody what it feels like to know, hey, if you don't run fast enough, you're going to die.

SCIUTTO: Yes. You know, as you say that born in 2005, I'm realizing I covered my first school shooting before you were even born in the late 90s. Let me ask you this as a young person, who do you look to for leadership to keep you safe, to prevent the next one from happening to you or someone like you?

JOSEPH: As a campus leader myself, the first thing I did was call my colleagues today. I just said to myself, something has to be done. Something has to -- there has to be a long-term solution. You know, we can march, we can pray, we can do a lot of things, but what is the long-term solution to these situations?

I know there's plenty of people in the Capitol who wants to fight for us. I just called one of my colleagues who I knew was actually interning over there and more familiar with that aspect. And I said, what's the next step?

SCIUTTO: Well, Chris Joseph, I'm glad you're safe. We're glad you're safe. And we wish you the best of luck finding a way forward for all of us.

JOSEPH: Thank you.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

SCIUTTO: Coming up next, why some users of popular weight loss drugs find themselves hitting a plateau in losing weight?

And Pope Francis preparing for Easter in the face of his own health challenges. A report from Rome is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:49:43] SCIUTTO: Injectable medications to treat obesity and diabetes known as GLP-1s have become increasingly popular, as I'm sure you've heard in recent years. But there may be a ceiling to how much weight patients can lose while using them.

CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: What was the highest weight you ever had?

[20:50:01]

KOSTA LIGRIS, WEIGHT LOSS DRUG PATIENT: The highest weight I ever had was over -- just slightly over 400 pounds. You have this sort of reckoning like, OK, I'm going to die.

GUPTA (voice-over): So, Kosta Ligris started taking a weight loss drug three years ago.

GUPTA: How much weight did you lose?

LIGRIS: I've lost probably over 130 pounds.

GUPTA: Wow. Do you want to lose more weight?

LIGRIS: I do.

GUPTA (voice-over): But losing more weight has become increasingly difficult.

GUPTA: And, of course, the Zepbound.

LIGRIS: And the Zepbound.

GUPTA (voice-over): Even on what is now the highest dose of his GLP-1 drugs.

LIGRIS: This is the equivalent of 15 milligrams of Mounjaro.

I'm not losing 7 or 8 pounds a month anymore.

GUPTA: People are using this word plateau when it comes to these medications. What does that term mean to you?

LIGRIS: Plateau basically means you're continuing to use the medication at the dosage that you've been using it, but the weight loss has stopped. Like you have reached sort of a ceiling or a cap.

DR. ANGELA FITCH, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, KNOWNWELL: All right, you know the drill.

GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Angela Fitch prescribes Kosta's medications.

FITCH: We don't have something that gives you greater than a 20 to 30 percent weight loss today on average. That 20 percent weight loss is a real plateau barrier that we have trouble kind of breaking through without more intensive intervention like surgery. As you lose weight, your body makes biochemicals that try to force your weight to go back up.

LIGRIS: But as you'll see, it's a heavy protein diet.

GUPTA (voice-over): If Kosta wants to lose more weight at this point, that's going to have to mostly come from good nutrition and lifestyle changes.

LIGRIS: I've moved away from just doing a lot of cardio to moving to strength training, and it's completely changed my life.

GUPTA: If you're doing everything right, though, getting plenty of sleep, eating right --

FITCH: Yes.

GUPTA: -- like Kosta's doing, working out, you may still plateau on these medications.

FITCH: You will plateau.

GUPTA: You will plateau.

FITCH: It is inevitable. Yes.

GUPTA: So is a plateau an end goal to achieve or an obstacle to overcome?

FITCH: That is an excellent question. And I think, you know, for now, it is somewhat of both. We have to be happy with it being an end goal to achieve because that's the limit of our treatment today. But I think, as an individual person, we still continue to make changes.

You've lost 2.7 pounds of fat since last time.

Even Kosta is still losing fat around his midsection, which is better for his health. The hope is the future is different, that we have other treatments we can offer that could potentially break through those plateaus.

GUPTA (voice-over): But until then, Kosta will be an uncharted territory.

LIGRIS: I think that sometimes when we think about weight loss, a plateau sounds like a bad thing, like you get to that number and you're stuck there. By the way, like, let's be clear, if I stay at this weight and I can never lose another pound, I'm probably, you know, 100 times healthier than I was when I was 130 pounds heavier and probably have added years to my life.

GUPTA: Everything you measure says you're healthy. Why do you want to lose more weight? LIGRIS: I think that as I get older, it might be a challenge to continue to lose weight. You know, just looking historically at the data, the lower percentage of body fat, the better. I certainly don't think I could lose 130 pounds, another 130 pounds.

GUPTA: Can't wither away to nothing.

LIGRIS: Can't wither away to nothing.

GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SCIUTTO: Just ahead, Pope Francis still recovering after five weeks in the hospital. Will the world see him at the Vatican this Easter? We'll have the details just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:57]

SCIUTTO: Double pneumonia nearly ended Pope Francis's life this year. But after five weeks in the hospital, the leader of the Catholic Church is back at the Vatican and determined to be a visible presence at this week's Easter celebrations.

Christopher Lamb has more from Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

(APPLAUSE)

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not long out of hospital where he came close to death, Pope Francis is preparing to celebrate Easter. But in a very different way than previous years.

As he continues to recover from double pneumonia, the 88-year-old pontiff is unable to lead the Vatican's Holy Week services. He can't speak in public for long periods. Doctors ordered him into weeks of convalescence.

Nevertheless, the Holy Father is determined to participate and to make surprise appearances.

On Thursday, he went to a Rome prison to show his solidarity with inmates. Telling them that had he been able, as in years before, he would have washed some of their feet. A ritual that follows Jesus Christ washing the feet of his disciples.

This is the high point of the church's calendar. With pilgrims flocking to Rome, expecting to see the Pope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is very disappointing. But I think because Easter is such a special time, it didn't really take away from the celebration and why we as well. LAMB (voice-over): Among them, U.S. Vice President JD Vance, a Catholic, who is hoping to meet Francis. The pontiff has delegated the major Holy Week and Easter services to certain cardinals. Although he did make an appearance on Palm Sunday.

Since being discharged from hospital, the Pope has resumed some meetings. Including a private visit with Britain's King Charles and Queen Camilla.

And he thanked the medical team who saved his life.

POPE FRANCIS, SOVEREIGN OF THE VATICAN CITY STATE (through translation): Thank you all. I pray for you. Please do so for me.

LAMB (voice-over): He even appeared casually dressed while greeting visitors at St. Peter's Basilica.

Good Friday is when Christians remember Christ's suffering and death on the cross. And then celebrate his resurrection on Easter Sunday. This year, the world's more than 1 billion Catholics will also pray for their leader. Frail in health, but strong in faith.

Christopher Lamb, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SCIUTTO: Our best to the Pope this Easter.

That is all for us. The news continues. "The Source" with Kaitlan Collins starts now.