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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Vatican Extends Viewing Hours as 90,000+ Mourners Line Up Pay Their Final Respects to Pope Francis; Interview with Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO); Trump: We're Putting a Lot of Pressure on Russia; Trump Offers Private Dinner To Investors In His Cryptocurrency, Spiking Price By 50 Percent On Wednesday; Musk To Step Back From Role At DOGE As Tesla Profits Plunge; The Trump Effect On Canada's Election; How The Gammarelli Family Is Preparing To Dress The Next Pope. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired April 24, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

EVA LONGORIA "SEARCHING FOR SPAIN" HOST AND PRODUCER: It was so exciting and there's a lot of pride, pride in that -- this is the region where, you know, cava comes from.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: So we will look forward to that. Eva, thank you so much, and I hope that all of you will do that. Don't miss the premiere of "Searching For Spain." It is Sunday night at 9:00 right here on CNN. Thanks for joining us. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:25]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": And good evening again from Rome. Even at 2:00 A.M., Friday morning here, mourners from all over the world are still making their way through Saint Peter's Basilica as they have been doing on this continuously since Wednesday morning. Viewing which was supposed to end last night at midnight, instead kept going, pausing for just the 6:00 A.M. hour. No word yet on whether the Vatican will do the same for a second night.

And more than 90,000 people -- more than 90,000 people, have already paid their final respects, with many thousands more expected in the hours ahead.

Earlier, the Vatican released the first image of what will be the Pope's tomb. It is simple as he wished, inscribed only with the word "Franciscus," his name, Francis. He was the first Pope, of course, to take that name.

In the hour ahead, I'll be joined by a longtime friend of his and show you a little of what my crew and I saw and heard when we went inside to pay our respects.

We begin tonight with new developments in a crisis that Pope Francis cared deeply about, the war in Ukraine, starting with a notably heavy Russian missile strike on Kyiv.

It was Russia's deadliest attack on the Ukrainian capital in months. Emergency services there say at least 12 people were killed and 90 hurt. President Trump responded with this online quoting now, "I am not happy with the Russian strikes on Kyiv. Not necessary and very bad timing. Vladimir, STOP! 5,000 soldiers a week are dying. Let's get the peace deal DONE."

Now, the deal he's proposing includes significant concessions from Ukraine, including Kyiv, ceding large swaths of territory and de facto U.S. recognition of Crimea, which Russia took in 2014. As for what Russia would give up, the President was asked about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What concessions has Russia offered up thus far to get to the point where you're closer to peace?

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Stopping the war. Stopping -- taking the whole country. Pretty big concession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, that kind of talk has U.S. allies concerned, multiple diplomatic sources told CNN today. One Eastern European diplomat saying, I quote, "This is very much about our own existence and the weakening of any safeguards that my or other countries have for our own independence."

As for what, if anything, the President is doing to influence Moscow, he would not specify.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Why are you not putting more pressure on Russia?

TRUMP: Putin a lot of pressure, you don't know what pressure I'm putting on Russia -- they're dealing. You have no idea what pressure I'm putting on Russia. We are putting a lot of pressure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, there is new CNN reporting tonight on the President's state of mind when it comes to the war he once promised to bring an end to in a single day. Of course, our chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins, starts us off tonight. So, what have you learned about how the President is viewing the war privately, and the chances of brokering a deal?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, what was clear in the backdrop of that Oval Office moment today is that, yes, the President offered a rare rebuke of President Putin for those strikes in Kyiv last night. He told my colleague, Jeff Zeleny that he wasn't happy about that, especially as they are trying to get somewhere on this. But a lot of this has to do with the timing and that backdrop. And Trump has been privately acknowledging that getting a deal, getting a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia has been much harder than he anticipated. It's not like he thought it would be easy, but he's been arguing that it's been more difficult than he expected. Obviously, he pledged multiple times on the campaign trail to get it done in one day. And the other side of this is that also he's closing in on his first 100 days in office very soon. The White House is marking that next Tuesday. He's got a big rally where he's going to Michigan. But this is something that he wanted to have done. He does not want to have to have the United States in the middle of this, dealing with this, as he has said repeatedly and the Secretary of State said today, inside that that meeting in the Oval Office with Norway's leader, they did not start this war.

The U.S. did not start it and essentially they want to get out of it as soon as possible. And so that in part, is a lot of what's feeding the frustration that you're seeing from the President about getting somewhere to an agreement. But still, even that rare rebuke of Putin was notable only because he has offered so little of it over the last few months.

Obviously, he has been heavily critical of President Zelenskyy. He has referred to him as a dictator and other things at length. Obviously, you saw his showdown in the Oval Office with him, but he has not been as much of Putin, even though he said today and insisted to reporters that he is putting a lot of pressure on Putin.

COOPER: Well, Steve Witkoff, who's the U.S. Special Envoy. He's expected to meet with Vladimir Putin tomorrow. Are there actual signs of any pressure that is being put on Vladimir Putin?

[20:05:08]

COLLINS: It's not clear. I mean, we haven't seen any more sanctions that Trump has threatened. We haven't seen him kind of coalescing and getting together with other nations to go after Putin. Instead, he has often talked about how he thought he could make a deal with him, that he thought that Putin wants to end the war, even though Putin has not really shown any signs.

I mean, you talk to experts here. It's not like he's stopping or living up to ceasefires or not bombing Ukraine. I mean, he just bombed them and was striking them last night. And so, it is a real question of what comes out of this meeting. I think it will be very telling to see how Trump officials speak about this meeting on the other side of his time in Russia.

COOPER: All right, Kaitlan, we'll see you at the top of the next hour on "The Source."

Joining us right now from Moscow CNN's Fred Pleitgen. Fred, what are Russian authorities saying about last night's attacks and this U.S. led peace proposal?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, the Russians are saying that these were attacks on military targets in Ukraine. And, by the way, they're saying that they're not only happened in Kyiv, but actually across the country using ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and also drones as well. As far as these peace proposals are concerned, the Russians are saying that they believe that a deal could be inching closer. But they're also saying that there are also some very tough questions that are still at hand and still need to be addressed. At the same time, as far as that pressure is concerned that President Trump was talking about and possible consequences if a deal is not reached. The Russians don't seem too concerned about that. I actually spoke to a senior Russian senator about that today. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: Trump has threatened massive sanctions if this doesn't work out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sanctions cannot change Russian national interests and our possibility to follow our interests, it is not possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: So the Russians are saying that they're not concerned about any sort of consequences if things don't work out. At the same time, Anderson, the Russians also say they do believe that the Putin administration and the Trump administration do see eye to eye on a lot of issues regarding the Ukraine conflict -- Anderson.

COOPER: And I mean, is there a sense of what kind of outcome Putin would prefer here, obviously, besides taking over the entire country?

PLEITGEN: Yes, you know, the Russians are saying they don't want to get too ahead of what Steve Witkoff is going to be talking about Vladimir Putin. But there are certain signs that we are getting from the Russians here. And one of them, of course, is about possible territory where one of the things that the Russians have been hinting at is that obviously they want to keep the territories that they're holding so far on Ukrainian soil. But the Kremlin spokesman also saying that there are actually possible territories that the Russians want, even beyond that. That's something that he said in an interview with French media. And the other big question, of course, is possible Ukrainian NATO membership in the future, where the Russians say that that is absolutely a red line for them.

But I think one of the other things that we also have to keep in mind when we're speaking about what the Russians are doing here. For them, it's not only about the Ukraine conflict, but they're aiming at is a complete reset of U.S.-Russian relations and, of course, complete sanctions relief as well -- Anderson.

COOPER: What is the mood like in Moscow? Do people anticipate the war will continue?

PLEITGEN: Yes, I've actually been spending a lot of time here on the streets in Moscow speaking to people. And there are actually a lot of people who do believe that a deal can be reached. There are a lot of people who say that they obviously trust in their leadership. There's actually a lot of positive vibes also towards the Trump administration as well. One of the things, of course, that the Russians are also very much aware of is that this process is certainly dragging out a lot longer than many people would have thought.

Nevertheless, I think right now the Russians believe that their leadership and they are very much in the driver's seat as far as these negotiations are concerned. They believe that their military is making gains on the battlefield. And at the same time, you don't feel that the threat of sanctions coming from the Trump administration is something that really has people that concerned, because this country, of course, is already under very heavy sanctions as it is -- Anderson.

COOPER: Fred Pleitgen in Moscow tonight. Thanks very much. I want to bring in Democratic Congressman Jason Crow of Colorado. He's a former Army ranger who sits on the House Armed Services and Intelligence Committees.

Congressman, I appreciate you being with us. So, we saw this on social media post from President Trump where he said, "Vladimir, Stop." You know, he said, that's pushing back on these attacks. At the same time, Trump appears to be convinced that Russia wants peace. Have you seen any evidence of that?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, Donald Trump's post ought to do it right, Anderson, we're dealing with one of the world's most brutal dictators in Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump just posted on social media that he ought to knock it off.

I mean, listen, this is beyond embarrassing now. This is a danger to American National Security. It's a danger to Global Security because Donald Trump is being played exactly the way in which anyone who understands how Vladimir Putin works knows that he would play Donald Trump.

He's drawing this out. He knows that time is on his side. Donald Trump did not solve this on day one like he promised to do and like we all knew that he wouldn't. And he's treating one of our biggest partners, Ukraine, who's the victim here as just another belligerent party.

Nobody wants peace more than the Ukrainians and the constant tirades against Zelenskyy, the constant tirades against the Ukrainians only undermines the prospect for peace.

[20:10:27]

COOPER: I mean, it seems if this was any other leader other than Vladimir Putin, President Trump would be insulted by the way he's being treated and just sort of disregarded. You know, claiming that Russia is making it, "pretty big concession by agreeing not to take over the entire country." I mean, is that a concession to you?

CROW: No, that's not a concession at all. I mean, how could anyone think that that's a concession, right? Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. They re-invaded Ukraine in 2022. They are committing massive crimes. They've kidnapped tens of thousands of Ukrainian children and are holding them hostage in Russia. The actions of Vladimir Putin and Russia are really beyond the pale.

So, you know, this false equivalency that Donald Trump and his administration attempt to position in a so-called attempt to achieve peace does nothing but embolden Vladimir Putin. You know, the thing about Vladimir Putin is that we have known him for a very long time. We know how this guy operates. He's been on the scene for decades now. We know he never keeps promises. We know he only respects strength. We know he only does what he's forced to do, and we know that he believes that his legacy, his lifetime legacy, is rebuilding the Russian empire for what it used to be, which includes vast swaths of Europe, including many of our allies.

COOPER: Is it clear to you how, if President Zelenskyy refuses to make a deal, whatever that deal may look like, what the ramifications will be from this Trump administration towards Ukraine?

CROW: That's not clear to me. And I don't believe it's clear to anybody at this point. I mean, trying to understand what this administration is doing in any one particular National Security issue, let alone this particular conflict, is very difficult, right. You have Pete Hegseth, who almost daily now there's some new revelation about him breaching some security protocol or texting his family, you know, National Security secrets. You have mass resignations in the Department of Defense, you know, two months plus into this administration.

You know, I'm sitting here wondering who is at the wheel? You know, what is going on at the National Security Council? At the DoD? At the State Department? It's very scary stuff. You know, I've served much of my life in defense of this country. My very first assignment taking the oath was as an Army ranger. There's very real threats facing this country. There are very real dangers that our troops go through every single day and the fact that I do not have confidence now that any adults are in the room is very, very disconcerting, to say the least.

COOPER: And I mean, is the U.S. deal or is there a deal by the Trump administration with Ukraine over minerals? What do you know what the status of that is?

CROW: No, I don't believe anybody knows what the status of that is either. And listen, I'm not opposed to a deal like that actually, right. I'm not opposed to peace.

In fact, I think I want peace. The Ukrainians want peace more than anybody, as I mentioned, and like most wars, this war will likely end at a negotiating table, right. So, there has to be a process. There has to be negotiation, there has to be peace and I actually also am in favor of some type of deal that would help pay for some of the support and some of the weapons and equipment supplies that we are giving the Ukrainians. I'm not opposed to that, but the manner in which this administration goes about it, by posting on social media, by maligning or attacking our allies and partners, by allowing themselves to be played by the world's most brutal dictator, is not going to get us there.

COOPER: Congressman Crow, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.

Coming up next, we will have more on what is going on inside Saint Peter's Basilica right now. People who have come from all over the world to say a quiet prayer, to share the silence and remember what Pope Francis meant and we'll continue to mean to them.

Later, also, were learning about the newest sales pitch for President Trumps crypto side hustle and the ethical lines that may cross a meme coin and the dinner he's promising top investors. All of that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:19:12]

COOPER: Welcome back.

I got the chance to go into Saint Peter's Basilica today with a group of reporters. We were allowed to stand off to the side of where the Pope lies in state, and watch as people filed past him. Afterwards, I got in line with thousands of other people and walked with them through the glorious grandeur of the Basilica and had a moment to see the Pope. Guards around him gently encourage people to move along. But it was a deeply moving experience, and I'm grateful.

People continue to file into the Basilica in the early hours of Friday morning here, and it is the early hours right now.

Also arriving the Vatican City, members of the College of Cardinals, many of whom will choose the next Pope. Some of whom met today, according to "The New York Times," to map out logistics for the mourning period after Saturdays funeral.

With me here is John Studzinski, a longtime friend of the Pope's who also had support a number of charitable causes around the world.

John, thank you for being with us. We talked in London days ago.

[20:20:08]

JOHN STUDZINSKI, FRIEND OF POPE FRANCIS: Yes.

COOPER: You have been here. You've been able to see Pope Francis. What are your thoughts on this day?

STUDZINSKI: It's an interesting interregnum, this juxtaposition now of this daily rich feed that you and the other members of the world leadership of the media are talking about what he represents. And you know, it's like taking stock. This is the first time this entire church in the world is taking stock. And here, I'm doing a lot of listening to people who are on one hand, a number of very senior people in the church saying its -- I feel rather numb because there's -- it's a period where there's no clarity, there's no leadership, there's no voice and it's the voice that is people miss.

COOPER: One of the things I've been so struck by just in watching Francis in the last days and how he died, it seems like he wanted people -- you know, we live in a society that shuns away, that puts old people away, that that puts disabled people off to the side, that that doesn't talk about grief. He wanted us to see him in his wheelchair. He was -- that was okay with him. He wanted us to see his decline, to show us how a person dies, I feel.

I feel like -- and even now, there's something so elemental about seeing him in that open coffin, that beautiful procession from his residence to the Basilica. The open coffin through the streets and just seeing him up close. It's just -- I feel like there's a message in his body still.

STUDZINSKI: One of the things that he was quite adamant about, you might recall when he was in the hospital was he said, I don't want any sort of polite generalizations about my health. I want daily transparency. I want the world and the church to understand how my health is, how I'm doing, how I'm suffering and what my daily ailments are. And you remember the very graphic description of him vomiting.

And what you have today is this, and you said it well, but the word I would introduce is his very strong focus on the transition and the dignity of dying. And I don't think dignity is a word that people use too often because it relates to self-esteem and the individual, that he was so focused as one pure soul on everyone's pure soul.

So, as you see people falling through that Basilica, you can see each one of them thinking, maybe you've done something to give me a little more of self-esteem, more dignity, a little more reflection of respect for myself, because there's been so much written about social media today. The anxious generation about social media and undermining peoples own sense of dignity. And here you see in his very dramatic transition from life to death of how that dignity is something he wanted to reinforce.

COOPER: And learning the preamble that he wrote for this book. I guess he wrote it in February, of the death is not the end, it's the beginning of something new, a new beginning, he said. It's something that we've never fully experienced in life, which is eternity. I obsessed with this, I just find it so fascinating. And what -- I mean, what an extraordinary thing to face death with, that knowledge, that belief that it is not the end, that that it is the embarking on a new beginning.

STUDZINSKI: I'm really glad you're embracing this discussion, and I think I'm hoping there's a broader discussion about this, because the world, and particularly the Catholic Church has been very careful over the last decades to talk about heaven, talk about life after death, talk about eternity. And people are often reluctant to talk about the supernatural because they associate the supernatural with the dark side of things. They don't associate the supernatural with the spirit.

But remember, let's go all the way back to that Easter Monday. And actually the Scriptures today in the mass relate to and yesterday actually relate to Christ asking, saying that he was hungry, that he thirsted, but he wanted a morsel of food to demonstrate that he could eat physically, to demonstrate that he had rose from the dead and all of that, basically underscoring. It's a very strong statement in the Scriptures about supernatural, and it's something, I'm sure in your education and my education was not something that people are either taught or even begun to sort of contemplate as they age and think about death the way you've just described it.

[20:25:23]

COOPER: Is it -- do you have a favorite memory of him?

STUDZINSKI: I have a lot of memories of him, particularly as it relates to -- I have his view, I think one of his strongest memories was about his role in the church, and we often would talk about that and he saw his role as a bridge builder, and he saw his role as bringing together the faiths. And I think if there's one thing, if you go to Abu Dhabi, for example, there is the Mother of Mary Mosque, the Mother of Mary Synagogue and the Mother of Mary Catholic Church, where you have religious coexistence and he was very focused on that.

But I remember him one day in this enormous frustration of people wanting him to do when I call -- he felt ordinary things like just say the mass. He'd say, I have lots of cardinals. Their job is to say the mass. I have to take this faith to another level, and I have to reconstruct the Aramaic faiths going all the way back to Abraham and the Old Testament, Christianity, Judaism, Islam have got much more in common. And that's why his great vision and to have him say it with such conviction, feeling that those that responsibility was him.

So, it wasn't a great laugh. It wasn't a great -- it was one thing that -- and I said to myself, I wonder how many, how often he's talked about this with a broader group of cardinals. I'm not so sure he had, because he saw himself really as a really important bridge builder.

COOPER: John, thank you so much for your time. I really. appreciate it.

STUDZINSKI: Thank you.

COOPER: We'll be right back. We have a lot more ahead from here in Rome.

Also, back to the President and the new effort on his meme coin. We'll have details of that. And also, John King is back with his election season "All Over The Map" series.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:32:10]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: This next report is about President Trump, cryptocurrency and very real money. The day before he was inaugurated you may know, the President launched what's called a meme coin, which is a type of cryptocurrency.

It immediately surged from $6.50 to $75. Then it quickly fell in value but jumped more than 50 percent yesterday. The reason, a website promoting the Trump meme coin announcing a, quote, "unforgettable gala dinner with the President for the top 220 investors".

Now the top 25 are further promised what's being billed as an exclusive reception with the President before dinner and a special VIP tour the following day. I should point out the First Lady, Melania Trump also has a meme coin.

And the Trump administration has embraced cryptocurrency in a broader sense, rolling back Biden-era regulations and last month the President announced the establishment of a federal strategic cryptocurrency reserve.

Joining me is Scott Galloway, he's a NYU professor, host of the Prophecy podcast and co-host Kara Swisher of the Pivot podcast.

Scott, I want to talk to you about this meme coin. Have you ever seen anything like this offer of a private dinner with the President of the United States for investors, the top investors in a meme coin? Essentially if you buy enough meme coins you get access. I mean is this not pay to play?

SCOTT GALLOWAY, PROF. OF MARKETING, NYU STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: Oh, we see it everywhere. We see it if you want to go to Glastonbury or Coachella and buy a high-end ticket, you get -- you can pay enough, you can get a, you know, a meet-and-greet with Taylor Swift.

What we've never seen is that you can buy access like this to the President on this kind of scale where essentially he's opened a Swiss banking account and whoever's put in the most money into that Swiss banking account gets invited to a dinner at one of his country clubs.

What's interesting here is not the 220 people that are going to show up at this but the people who don't because I think the potential here for grift is just unprecedented. We've never seen anything like this and this meme coin has a market cap of now $2.5 billion. He owns 80 percent of it.

So in the three months since the inauguration, the President has increased his wealth approximately $175 million a week I believe or $700 million a month. We've never seen anything like this, Anderson. And let's look at the timing.

Essentially he announced his meme coin which I would argue is the biggest grift that the president the Oval Office has ever attempted. He announced it late Friday night before the Monday of his inauguration when there was a ton of other news such that it would be buried.

But what's extraordinary about this is that when you think about the possibilities here, Putin is losing or is spending $500 million to $1 billion a day on the war in Ukraine. He's lost about 900,000 people to fatalities or to injuries.

[20:35:04]

Wouldn't he be stupid not to communicate to the President, hey I'll give you a month worth of expenditures say, $15 billion. And if I put that all into the meme coin, I'm likely to take the value to $30 billion, $50 billion or $60 billion if I pulse it in using kind of a mathematical equation to invest in a coin. And I'm going to make you the wealthiest man in the world.

And, by the way, none unrelated news, could you please pull your support for Ukraine. I mean, they're just -- and let's assume that he would never do that. Just the potential for that type of grift is extraordinary. And I think what this signifies is a lot of people have argued correctly with some veracity that America has been for sale for a long time.

There's a lot of corruption in Washington. But we've never had the world for sale before. I just -- wouldn't this -- wouldn't Xi, Anderson, be stupid not to offer Trump billions of dollars should he not respond with carrier strike forces and attack submarines if by chance Taiwan were to be invaded. Just the potential here for corruption on a geopolitical global scale has -- we've never seen anything like this.

COOPER: But let me -- just on the -- let me give you some pushback on that from, you know, somebody watching will say, well, look, there's no way the President United States would be doing that. That would be foolish because then obviously that would be beholden to blackmail from them down the road if they ever wanted to reveal that.

And also having wealthy people always been able to get access to a president. Is this any different than, you know, wealthy donors getting to have dinner with the President?

GALLOWAY: I think it's a fair point. And I also want to acknowledge that there's been grift on both sides. I would argue that Democrats are corrupt for thousands or hundreds of thousands. And the President has decided to be corrupt for billions.

So to a certain extent, you can admire that he's decided to be corrupt for a much greater dollar amount. I don't -- I mean you're talking about a family here, Anderson. It's not allowed to serve on public company boards in New York because they're seen as being so corrupt.

So the idea that somehow Xi would have some sort of leverage over him if they were to do this trade or this -- there's no paper trail of this. That's the hard part, is this could happen. We -- as far as we know, this has already happened. So let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

But the whole point of eliminating these conflict of interest is that there's not that perception. Our brand now means, in my view, corruption. It's this is essentially the monetization of the White House and a level of toxic uncertainty that you're going to see flows of capital outside the U.S.

And you've already seeing it. European index funds have recorded their largest inflows in 40 years. The Bank of America just did a survey of institutional investors and interest investing in America is at a 30- year low. This is just going to take the wealth of every -- almost every American down who doesn't have proximity to the President. This is corruption and it makes us less wealthy.

COOPER: What do you make of now Elon Musk's latest move?

GALLOWAY: In terms of returning to the private sector or leaving DOGE?

COOPER: Yes, yes. Well, I think it makes sense for him. I think that essentially his is -- I think where the kind of virus jumped the lab and convinced Musk return to his companies and kind of exit DOGE was when the nation of Poland and the province of Ontario said that they were canceling Starlink contracts.

And when he saw his stocks and his stake in Tesla and in Starlink start to diminish because his brand had taken such a hit. So I think it would -- it made a lot of sense for him to kind of fade to black here. And also, the kind of over promising and under delivering said there was going to find $2 trillion in savings ended up at maybe somewhere between $60 billion and $150 billion.

The good news is, I would argue, if this was an audit of the federal government, it's come out with a clean bill of health. There really hasn't been nearly as much waste fraud and abuse as people had suspected or claimed they were going to find. But I think it just makes a lot of sense for him to kind of quietly fade away and go back to the private sector.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, he at one point, had talked about $1 trillion or $2 trillion of waste and fraud that they would find. There's nothing -- been nothing like that. Not to say that there's not a waste that still could be uncovered, but I mean the claims that were being made and the way they went about it were certainly not what was advertised.

GALLOWAY: This is all just so hypocritical and cynical. The fastest way to exponentially increase the savings from DOGE would be to cut off all subsidies to Tesla. They reported earnings today.

If they weren't getting money from the government for selling their carbon credits, this would have been an automobile company that had lost its revenues to decline 20 percent and was now unprofitable. So basically, Tesla's only can only report profitability on an EBITDA basis because of government subsidies.

[20:40:01]

So it's just insane for this individual to, you know, say he's going in to find fraud and abuse. If you want to increase savings, then stop some of the subsidies to companies run by people who are worth $400 billion.

So, I find all of this just incredibly -- it's just -- you have to -- I mean to a certain extent, just the level of brazen hypocrisy here is just it's noxious. And I think it goes to a larger issue here, Anderson, and that is, I worry that there's a kind of an emerging cohort of what I call the transnational oligarchy that can buy their own schooling, their own health care, their own rights.

They're sort of -- if you will, they are protected by the law but they're not bound by it. Whereas, the bottom 99 percent are bound by the law but no longer protected by it. And I believe that these transnational oligarchs who get their wealth from proximity to the President don't have as vested interests in maintaining the Constitution or enforcing our Bill of Rights because they essentially have their own democracy by virtue of their wealth which separates them from the rest of us and creates a lack of fidelity to the Constitution.

COOPER: Scott Galloway, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

GALLOWAY: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Coming up next, our John King has a new All Over the Map report from Canada. We're talking President Trump's tariffs and his threats of making the country the 51st state could be a big factor in Monday's election there.

And later, we'll take you to the Rome tailor shop that's been making vestments for popes going back centuries and they're ready to dress the next pontiff even before one is elected.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:46:16]

COOPER: There's a powerful outside factor in Canada's upcoming election, President Trump's tariffs and his threat of making Canada the 51st state. Canadians go to the polls on Monday and will decide whether Prime Minister Mark Carney's Liberal Party keeps control of Parliament and continues to run the country. That's him on the left. Or if another party gets a victory on the right is the other frontrunner Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre.

Our John King headed over the northern border for new All Over the Map report.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Rock Maple Lodge spans 200 acres, more than 2,000 maple trees, 11 miles of lines to carry the syrup back to be boiled, filtered, and bottled.

PETER HAMILTON, CANADIAN VOTER: There we go.

KING (voice-over): This is Peter Hamilton's business and his escape.

HAMILTON: Every year we've got to drill another hole.

KING (voice-over): He also farms wheat, soybeans and corn, sells some timber.

HAMILTON: So to be here 54 years and absolute just thrilled that we're able to do this. KING: Sounds like you're working harder now though.

HAMILTON: I would like to go back one more time to play some hockey.

KING (voice-over): A proud Canadian now more than ever. Yes, a lifelong Conservative but Canada first is Hamilton's motto as voters here pick a new parliament and a new prime minister.

HAMILTON: The bottom line is the Liberals and the Conservatives got to work together here. They can't be nit-picking and arguing amongst each other. We have to work together to make this country go ahead.

KING (voice-over): Work together he says because suddenly the United States feels so far away. Rock Maple Lodge is in Ontario just 65 miles from Toronto. It's just 100 miles to the border and Buffalo, but it doesn't feel that close with Donald Trump in the White House.

HAMILTON: There is no friends, no more. The biggest thing in Canada is we have friends all over the world. How many friends does Americans have right now?

KING (voice-over): The Trump effect on Canada's election cannot be overstated. You see more Canadian flags now. More of these signs too.

Federal elections here are often defined by East versus West. Urban versus rural. English versus French. Liberal versus Conservative. But Trump versus Canada defines this one.

Just weeks ago, some of the flowers here at Lola Blooms came from the United States. Not anymore. Sisters-in-law Lindsay Smith and Kaitlynn Strain are buying elsewhere now. Their answer to Trump's threats of tariffs or making Canada the 51st state.

LINDSAY SMITH, CANADIAN VOTER: It's more Donald Trump. I feel like he's a bully in this situation. We're supposed to be allies. We thought we're on like a friendship level.

KING (voice-over): Some of the vases and other hardware still come from the states. But Smith and Strain are looking for alternatives.

KING: And when you hear him call your Prime Minister Governor or say that, you know, this would make a great 51st state, what's that make you think?

KAITLYNN STRAIN, CANADIAN VOTER: Very insulting.

SMITH: We need a strong leader who won't stand up for bullying.

KING (voice-over): They both traditionally support the Green Party but both are leaning Liberal this time.

KING: If the Liberals are going to win or the Conservatives are going to win, you want them to win by what? A healthy enough margin --

STRAIN: Exactly.

KING: -- so that they're viewed as a strong leader?

SMITH: Yes.

STRAIN: Yes, very much.

SMITH: You put your vote where it counts a little more in this situation.

KING: And is that just because of Donald Trump?

SMITH: Yes.

STRAIN: Yes. Unfortunately.

SMITH: Yes.

KING (voice-over): Canadians see this as much bigger than who gets the most seats in parliament and gets to pick a prime minister. It's about spending more in the military.

Buying local. Finding new markets and new partners. Dropping any thought the ruts with Trump can just be smoothed over.

TOBY GORMAN, CANADIAN VOTER: I put up a flag myself. I never thought I would put up a Canadian flag. But I think when it comes down to crunch time, Canadians really gather up.

[20:50:06]

KING (voice-over): Toby Gorman is an environmental journalist and author and a pickup hockey player in the Canadian Beer League. Passionate about the climate crisis but likely to pass on his top choice this election in hopes he can help Liberals win a big enough mandate to counter Trump.

GORMAN: If it was any other election without the U.S. situation, without, you know, the crisis we had going on, I would probably go with green.

Just push it.

KING (voice-over): Gorman says he is hardly alone here in rethinking everything.

GORMAN: We're just sick of him, you know? And it's only been three months into the term and, you know, he's getting to an excess, he wants to crush us economically. I think, at first, it was kind of like losing your best friend or it's like, you know, what just happened, like, what's happening. But now, I think, we're at the point where it's like, well, we can move on.

KING (voice-over): That's a big shift.

This election defined by the belief Canada and the United States are suddenly more rivals than neighbors. Suddenly no longer skating in the same direction. (END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: And John King joins me now. John, I mean, it's fascinating the United States, obviously, this administration, is -- has not unified the country and yet in Canada, this administration has it seems unified Canadians in this election.

KING (on-camera): It is remarkable, Anderson. You will not hear that sentence spoken in the United States, right? Donald Trump is a unifying force. That is just not spoken in the United States has not been during his whole time in our national politics.

But in Canada, he has become the issues. There are disagreements over crime, over the climate, over the cost of living, who's to blame and what's to be done about it. But over Donald Trump, both the leading Liberal candidate and the leading Conservative candidate say you have to fight back against the United States.

That Canada has to find new partners. That Canada has to stop relying on its neighbor to the south. They also both just can't fathom, none of the Canadians. None of the voters we met both in Ontario or British Columbia a couple weeks ago, they don't understand why did Donald Trump decide to take this relationship from neighborly to nasty.

So it is remarkable. I've covered campaigns a long time. You have a lot of disagreements between, you know, the issues between the parties. But in Canada right now, everybody says Trump is the problem. They need to fight back.

And fighting back means ending a relationship that everybody agrees has been great for both countries for a very long time. But Canada says Trump wants to play this way.

COOPER: Yes.

KING (on-camera): They're not playing anymore.

COOPER: Yes. John King, thanks very much.

Next, meet the tailors carrying on a centuries old tradition dressing the next pope. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:07]

COOPER: Well, with the process to select the next pope set to begin soon, the Gammarelli family is hoping to dress whomever is elected. The families serve popes, cardinals and other clergy for centuries.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pope Francis was a man of simple tastes, usually dressed in a plain white cassock. His predecessor, Benedict XVI, was big on tradition.

Few know better the whims of papal fashion than the Gammarelli family, tailors to the clergy from priests to bishops, cardinals to popes.

LORENZO GAMMARELLI, TAILOR: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Every pope has his own style, says Lorenzo Gammarelli, because apart from being a pope, they are humans who have their own taste.

L. GAMMARELLI: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Around the corner from Piazza della Minerva in Rome, they have more than two centuries of experience.

WEDEMAN: The Gammarelli family has been in business for six generations, open since 1798.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): For the past eight conclaves, Gammarelli has prepared three outfits small, medium and large, ready to wear for whoever is chosen.

Here, it's business as usual until an order arrives from the pontiff.

"Keep in mind it's not like making an outfit for another person," Lorenzo tells me. "When it's for the pope, we concentrate fully on that outfit."

He was hesitant to talk prices. I asked if I wanted to buy a bishop's outfit, how much would it cost.

"First, you have to become a bishop," he responded.

Stockings are more within the price range of those rising through the ranks. Rozenn Dedeyan from France bought a pair for her priest.

ROZENN DEDEYAN, FRENCH TOURIST: So we were in front of this very famous shop and I knew that the pope's socks came from here. So I asked him, "Would you like a pair of socks from Gammarelli?" And he said, "Oh well, if you insist". So, we bought the socks.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Pope Francis became a Gammarelli client when he was appointed cardinal 24 years ago. Today's cardinal and client could be tomorrow's pope.

WEDEMAN: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

L. GAMMARELLI: No comment.

WEDEMAN (voice-over): "Who do you think will be the next pope?" I ask. "Who is most Papabile?"

"The latest pope," says Lorenzo. "We were only able to guess Pope Benedict would be elected. All the others were a surprise."

(END VIDEO TAPE) WEDEMAN (on-camera): Once the funeral for Pope Francis is over and all the VIPs have left town, the focus will shift on to the conclave and the tailors at Gammarelli will have to get into high gear. Anderson?

COOPER: An extraordinary Rome tradition.

Ben Wedeman, thanks.

A programming note, join us for the funeral of Pope Francis. Our coverage begins Saturday morning at 3:00 a.m. Eastern Time. I hope you join me for that.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.