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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

U.S. Government Deports Migrants To South Sudan In Violation Of Federal Court Order; Interview With Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT); Trump Pushes For House GOP To Pass His Budget Bill; Cassie Ventura's Mother Testifies About Combs' Alleged Abuse; Ex-Assistant Testifies About Demanding Work Life Under Combs; Reagan's Daughter: Biden's Prostate Cancer Diagnosis Is An Opportunity To Show A Different Kind Of Leadership; George Wendt, Norm From "Cheers", Dead At 76; Sheriff's Employee Arrested In New Orleans Jailbreak; Fifth Inmate Captured In Nola Jailbreak. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired May 20, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Another thing I'll tell you that you don't know is that he's actually the uncle of Jason Sudeikis, who, of course, is a great comedian actor in his own right and I went back and I looked at this. How many Emmy nominations between the two of them were there? Get this 15 Emmy nominations between the two of them.

My goodness gracious. I doubt that there is more successful uncle and nephew than those two.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: That is incredible, genetics.

ENTEN: Genetics, hey, it works wonders, right?

BURNETT: All right, well, thank you so much Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you, George Wendt, great guy.

BURNETT: All right, and thanks so much as always to all of you. Anderson starts now.

[20:00:34]

JOHN BERMAN , CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, a judge reportedly tells the administration, find the plane you deported migrants on and see if it can be turned around if it can be turned around before it drops them off, unclear where and possible violation of the order he gave.

Also tonight, the Secretary of Homeland Security is asked to define a pillar of due process. The Writ of Habeas Corpus, but she "Habeas not a clue" what it means.

Plus, keeping them honest, the health secretary testifies about the laid off team of lead experts he promised to reinstate to help with contaminated schools in Milwaukee. What he said and what really happened?

Plus, new details on the brazen New Orleans jailbreak, including a jail worker charged. Good evening everyone, John Berman here in for Anderson. And we begin tonight with breaking news from a federal judge in Boston, the latest of several to say the Trump administration could be violating court orders. "The New York Times," came out with a story shortly before air time. A Burmese immigrant apparently put on a plane bound for South Sudan or Myanmar.

The government's lawyer claims the second, the man's lawyer says the first -- judge, Brian Murphy, threatening to hold officials in contempt, warning the administration and it apparently violated an order he issued in April barring this person's deportation without first giving him time to challenge his removal and ordering officials to locate the plane.

Quoting now from "The Times'" courtroom account, "During the hearing, Judge Murphy ordered a lawyer for the Justice Department, Aelianus and Perez, to notify everyone involved in the flight to South Sudan from the pilot of the plane to officials in the Department of Homeland Security that they could face criminal contempt sanctions if his ruling was not followed. He also instructed Miss Perez to find out exactly where the plane was and whether it could be turned around mid- flight.

Now, Miss Perez told the judge she did not know where the plane was. More now on this man's case and that of another person from Vietnam, who apparently suffered the same fate.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez and Jeff Zeleny are with us now. There's a lot that is murky about this, and we're just figuring out, Priscilla, but what do we know about why these migrants were allegedly deported despite the judge's order?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, all of this unfolded very quickly over the course of the day. We initially saw those court filings earlier this afternoon, but this is something that began on Monday and really took off on Tuesday. Here's what the court documents say.

There are declarations here from attorneys from of the Burmese national that you're referring to there, and a Vietnamese national. But they say, John, that there could be ten others who were on this flight, they say to South Sudan.

Now, in the case of the Burmese national, what the attorney for that national says is that on Monday, he was notified that he was going to be deported to South Sudan. He was not proficient in English. He was advised or he was notified by ICE while he was in detention of this without an interpreter. And this really set off a chain of events of his attorneys trying to figure out why he would be sent to South Sudan.

He did have a removal order, but to his own country, not to another one. Now, his attorney says that she set up an appointment to meet with him virtually this morning. When she checked the detainer locator this morning, that's essentially the detention system to see where people are. He was no longer there. And when she e-mailed ICE, they said the officer responded, "South Sudan" when she asked where he was removed to.

So, you can see why there is so much confusion as to where these detainees who just yesterday were in the detention system, are now no longer there. Now, the attorneys are trying to scramble to figure this out because even though some of these migrants did have removal orders and could be deported, the question here is where were they deported to? Because if they are sent to a third country, in this case South Sudan, then they would have had to go through a process. They would have had to be notified, they would have had an ability to contest the removal to this country.

Now, all of that appears to not have happened, which is why we are seeing all of this unfold in these court filings and in the courtroom. I will also tell you, John, the Department of Homeland Security has not publicly confirmed a flight to South Sudan, a place that has been on the cusp of Civil War and where the U.S. advises Americans not to travel to because of the ongoing armed conflict there. So certainly a scramble is still unfolding at this hour, John, as attorneys try to figure out where people who they knew were yesterday are suddenly nowhere to be found in the U.S. system.

[20:05:12]

BERMAN: Yes, it is confusing.

So Jeff, has the Trump administration made any comment on these alleged deportations? Because this is obviously not the first time they have they have found themselves in this sort of a face off with a judge.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN, CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: As of now, John, tonight, no, the White House has not commented on this broadly, the administration has not either at DHS. And you're right, it is a very familiar story, as Priscilla was just laying out there, we have heard this before, if this sounds familiar, it is. The countries are different. The locations are different. To Priscilla's point there at the end, South Sudan is on the cusp of a civil war, and there is a travel warning against visiting there. So, that certainly is one point here.

But no, the administration is not responding to this -- they simply, this is one more example of how the immigration procedures are operating in the shadows in many respects. But the events of the courtroom in Boston that were relayed by "The New York Times" and in the official records show that the judges one more judge is increasingly becoming exasperated and angry with the Trump administration, with the DOJ lawyers for their responses or lack of responses. And we're told there is another hearing tomorrow to get more responses to this. So, this is very much an ongoing story -- John.

BERMAN: All right, we will learn more, no doubt, in the coming hours. Priscilla Alvarez, Jeff Zeleny, we really appreciate your reporting on this.

With us now is Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Democrat from Connecticut who sits on the Judiciary and Armed Services Committee, among others. Senator Blumenthal, very nice to see you. So, look, there's many levels to this story. If there was a plane with migrants sent to South Sudan, deporting people to South Sudan, what's your response to that? Sending people to -- who aren't from South Sudan, we think to this nation which is on the verge of a civil war.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): If those individuals were on a plane sent to South Sudan, it seems a violation of the court order. Judge Murphy ought to be really angry, his order has been violated, and he ought to consider a contempt of court motion. And no doubt the plaintiffs are considering it now, but very seriously, violation of court orders ought to be treated with the utmost of sanctions, because otherwise the law is dead letter.

BERMAN: Court order aside, and I'll come back to that in a second. Why do you think South Sudan, as a nation, to deport people to if they are not, in fact, Sudanese?

BLUMENTHAL: John, you know, it's inexplicable, except that so much of the lawlessness occurring in connection with these deportations is cruel and dumb. And so, the only explanation could be that it was a way of somehow punishing them for being illegally in the country, to send them to a place where they could be easily subject to persecution, torture, killing, and that is the fate, by the way, that they've also imposed on Afghan allies who helped our servicemen and women in Afghanistan, as well as protecting diplomats who are in this country on temporary protected status, and they are now -- the administration is threatening to eliminate that TPS status, send them back to the Taliban, where they have targets on their back, cruel and dumb, really inexplicable.

BERMAN: Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, testified before the Senate Homeland Security Committee today. I want to play you what she said when she was asked to define Habeas Corpus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MAGGIE HASSAN (D-NH): So, Secretary Noem, what is Habeas Corpus?

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, Habeas Corpus is a constitutional right that the President has to be able to remove people from this country and suspend their right to --

HASSAN: Let me let me stop you, Ma'am. Habeas Corpus, excuse me, that's incorrect. Habeas corpus -- excuse me -- habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Senator, you've been a lawyer for a long time. What is your reaction to the fact that that Secretary of Homeland Security, who is implementing the President's immigration agenda, defined Habeas Corpus like that?

BLUMENTHAL: Shock and absolute astonishment that a Cabinet Secretary would not know what the meaning is of this core foundational constitutional right, which, by the way, predates our constitution. It goes back to the English common law in English -- in Latin, I guess it means produce the body. It's the right to be brought before an impartial tribunal, if you are detained or imprisoned.

It's so fundamental to our constitutional rights. The founders put it in Article I, which is the delineation of congressional powers. And so, my reaction is that to say that it's a right of the President, so fundamentally misstates what ought to be a core understanding of a Cabinet Secretary responsible for implementing the law relating to deportation and detainment and other deprivation of liberty, that I think she owes an apology to the Congress.

[20:10:50]

BERMAN: Senator Blumenthal, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.

Now, President Trump's arm twisting effort to get his own party to fall in line and pass the gigantic piece of tax and spending legislation that he calls his big, beautiful bill.

He went to the Capitol today to make the case, and his message was blunt stop negotiating, just get it done. A senior White House official tells us the President expects every Republican to get on board for this, even though every Republican clearly isn't yet. Budget Hawks, for example, one of whom spoke to our Manu Raju.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When the White House says this will not raise the deficit, what do you say to them?

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Nobody says that.

RAJU: The White House this, the White House says they're saying it's deficit neutral.

MASSIE: But that's not true, that's a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joke or not, the bill has a price tag of nearly $4 trillion over ten years, only some of which would be offset by spending cuts, including steep reductions for Medicaid, something the President today warned House Republicans not to "F" around with, afterwards, he had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: And that was a meeting of love, let me tell you, that was love in that room. There was no shouting. I think it was a meeting of love.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: It's got to be nearly universal love when it comes to vote, because the bill currently has zero Democratic support and will not survive if less than a handful of Republicans vote no. Meanwhile, Health And Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. also testified today and what he said about his department's role in handling lead contamination in Milwaukee schools did not quite ring true. We'll have more on that shortly.

First, though, let's go to Manu Raju, who has had a busy day up at the Capitol. Manu, do we expect this bill to move at all tonight?

RAJU: Tonight we do expect it to clear one key committee. But the bigger question, John, is whether it can actually pass the full House because of those divisions between the more moderate members and the more conservative members, those conservative hardliners that Congressman Chip Roy are demanding deeper spending cuts. The more moderate members are concerned about those deeper spending cuts.

And also, there's a push by some New York Republicans in particular, like Congressman Mike Lawler, pushing to increase the amount that taxpayers can deduct over the state and local taxes they pay. But those conservative hardliners like Chip Roy say if you increase that amount of deduction, then they need to increase the number of spending cuts. And I caught up with both Roy and Lawler earlier today. And I asked them about these conflicting demands about whether they can get a deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): If they increase the SALT cap then my price for yesses just goes up.

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): I fundamentally reject that. We have met the parameters that Chip Roy and the Freedom Caucus set. They can't keep moving the goalposts along the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: But the question is, ultimately, John, is that whether or not this bill can come to the floor, can pass this week as Mike Johnson wants to see accomplished here. He can only afford to lose three Republican votes on a straight party line vote. And there are more than three who have concerns over a variety of issues here. So, the negotiations are continuing through the night into the morning, and the hope by the Speaker is to lock this down by as soon as tomorrow. But a big question of whether he can do that and whether his members on both flanks of the conference can get on board -- John.

BERMAN: Manu Raju, great work today. Thank you for tonight. Get some sleep while you can.

Now keeping them honest, what Robert Kennedy, Jr. said today on the Hill about a story we have been following at 360. Lead contamination in Milwaukee city schools and the CDC experts who should be there to help but can't be because they have all gotten the ax. Secretary Kennedy was asked about it today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): First, the program was eliminated as part of your restructuring of HHS, and all the program staff was fired. You suggested that that was a mistake and that the program will be brought back online.

Last week, you told Senator Baldwin that lead poisoning among children was a very significant issue. And if Congress appropriated the money, the program would continue. Well, Congress has appropriated the funding, and as far as we can tell, staff has not yet been hired. And I've seen no statements reversing the decision to eliminate the program. So, which is it? Do we have a go?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: We are continuing to fund the program and in Milwaukee, we have a team in Milwaukee, and were giving laboratory support to the to the to the analytics in Milwaukee. And we're working with the Health Department of Milwaukee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:15:18]

BERMAN: We have a team in Milwaukee, he says, which is not true according to the city. That is, unless by team, he meant one person who was there for a couple of weeks but has now left. For more on all of this, I want to bring in our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who's been on the ground in Milwaukee investigating this crisis.

So, Sanjay, how does Secretary Kennedy's response compare to what you've been seeing and hearing from those in Milwaukee?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: A huge disconnect here, John. I think for sure, you know, keep in mind, just to paint a picture for you, if you look at what's been happening in Milwaukee now for several months, they have these old buildings, buildings that are over hundred years old, many of them and for the first time ever, they were linking lead poisoning in kids to the schools that they were attending okay. That had happened before, even in Flint.

So that was a problem, many schools shut down, many kids having to come out of school or having to be transferred to other schools. Really a big issue on their hands.

Back in March was the first time a request was made to the CDC, and on April 3rd, they got an answer back saying, look, there's basically nobody here, nobody to even answer the phone as was explained to me by the health commissioner. I talked to him about that when I was on the ground in Milwaukee. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL TOTORAITIS, MILWAUKEE COMMISSIONER OF HEALTH: I think the long term investigation into the potential chronic exposures of students at the districts is a part that we were really looking for the CDC to help us with, and unfortunately, HHS had laid off that entire team for childhood lead exposure. These are the best and brightest minds in these areas around lead poisoning and now they're gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: So, that was two weeks ago, John. So April 3rd was the first time there was no response then two weeks ago. And now this statement, we asked the city of Milwaukee just to see if there was an update given the secretary's remarks. This is what they said, "Secretary Kennedy's statement is inaccurate." This is again from Milwaukee Health Department. "The city of Milwaukee Health Department is not receiving any federal epidemiological or analytical support related to the Milwaukee lead hazard crisis. Our former Epi aid request was denied by the CDC. The only recent federal involvement was a short two-week visit from a single CDC staff member who assisted with the validation of a new instrument in our laboratory."

"This support was requested independently of the MPS crisis and was part of a separate preexisting need to expand our lab's long-term capacity for lead testing."

So, they're basically saying, look, we had problems before we needed more testing, but all the other things that they were asking for to deal with this crisis.

You know, when we were there, there was a kid who was hospitalized for having lead levels ten times what you'd normally expect. So, I hate to say it, but the answer is no. There's just no help from the Feds right now in Milwaukee.

BERMAN: How does the response here compare to the crisis in Flint a couple of years ago?

GUPTA: Significantly different, and I was there as well. So, were talking December of 2015. You know, by the end of the year, early part of 2016, you had a significant CDC team that was deployed. They had a response and recovery team. They had an epidemiological team. They were helping set up testing, which is really important. A lot of frightened parents, they want to get their kids tested. And there was a lot of follow up. There was even a registry in Flint that still exists as a result of what happened there, you know, several years ago, ten years ago now, roughly. So, a very different response.

And I think, you know, that was something that I talked to the Milwaukee public health officials about. They expected that same sort of response in Milwaukee. But again, they're just not getting it and that statement I just read, John, that was from today.

BERMAN: That's a heck of a statement. Well, Flint was 2015 more than a couple of years ago, as I incorrectly said. Sanjay Gupta, great to see you this morning and tonight. Thank you very much.

Next, former FBI Director James Comey joins us just days after the Secret Service called him in for questioning about what some administration officials say was a call for President Trump's assassination. Plus, was Sean Combs using a sex tape to threaten his girlfriend, what her mother said about that and more on the stand today that's ahead here on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:23:48]

BERMAN: All right the Deputy Director of FBI, Dan Bongino, is warning of copycats sending threats to public figures mimicking a now deleted social media post from former FBI Director James Comey. Comey shared this image of seashells spelling out "86 47" which the President and his allies say amounts to a call for his assassination, something the former FBI Director denies.

He was interviewed by the Secret Service on Friday. Now, while there's some debate about the origins of the phrase, the number 86 more typically refers to running out a restaurant menu item or banning someone from a bar. Donald Trump is the 47th president. For his part, Comey says he came across the shells already arranged, and while he recognized them to be a political message, it had nothing to do with violence, he said.

He is also the author of a new legal thriller, "FDR Drive", and the former FBI Director James Comey joins me now. We'll get to your book in a moment, "FDR Drive." But when you posted this message, "86 47" and I said, there are different interpretations of it, but one interpretation of it is to end someone or something. Was there anything in the back of your mind that said, maybe I just shouldn't post this?

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: No, literally nothing, because it seemed entirely innocent and clever to me. I have never and actually still have don't associate 86 with violence, but because I heard that some folks were, whether they'd do that reasonably or not, I don't want any part of it. And so, that's why I took it down from my Instagram account.

[20:25:15]

BERMAN: You know that you are held to a different standard, that you're in the spotlight in a way that a lot of people aren't. Do you think that makes it even more incumbent on you to be careful about things like this?

COMEY: Sure, if you have any inkling that there's a problem. But they were talking about seashells at the beach that my wife and I stood over trying to understand what it was, and she said, just what you said in the intro, which is she was a longtime server when we were in school. And she said, yes, that used to mean it was a kitchen phrase to say 86, meaning to get it off the menu. And I thought, well, that's a clever political message. Never occurred to me and actually still doesn't that its associated with violence.

BERMAN: It still doesn't, even though people have pointed it out that it has been used in that context. COMEY: Yes, I've never seen it used in that context or heard it used in that context -- still.

BERMAN: How was your interview with the Secret Service about this?

COMEY: Oh, good, they're total pros. I've worked with Secret Service for many, many years, and they asked the right questions, trying to understand why I did it. We had a very similar conversation to the one you and I just had.

BERMAN: Did you leave thinking that they believed you, or did you leave thinking they still had concerns?

COMEY: I -- well, I don't have any reason to believe they don't believe me. And so, I feel like they asked the right questions, and I can't imagine there'll be any more on it.

BERMAN: Your book is about sort of protected speech when protected speech becomes political violence. Is that a fair way to characterize it? It's about an extreme podcaster, right, who talks about things. And then there are acts of political violence.

COMEY: Right, it's about a right-wing extremist trying to motivate followers to violence through his words and his broadcast.

BERMAN: It's interesting that your book is about that and now there is this discussion about speech, things said, and whether it can be motivating toward violence, Yes?

COMEY: Yes, not interesting to me. A bit of a distraction, actually. But the book is about an important question, and I don't see the seashell thing as an important issue, but I hope folks will read the book and see that it's a great thriller, but it's also about things that are important and current.

BERMAN: How challenging is it to write political fiction now when it seems like almost every sensational political event that could happen has happened in real life?

COMEY: Yes, and some of the stuff that goes on, right, a journalist being invited to a Signal chat, if you put it in your novel, your editor would say, come on, cut that out, this is fiction, but it's got to be real. So truth continues to surprise and be stranger than fiction. I'm trying to write very real fiction, so show people what it's really like inside these investigations. And it often you see reflected in real life in ways you wouldn't expect.

BERMAN: Do you think your fiction is more mundane than real life at times, is that the --

COMEY: I think it's probably right, because some of the things that we've seen, I wouldn't have imagined to put in a book.

BERMAN: Talk to me about your view of the type of people who are part of this Trump administration compared to the first Trump administration. What differences do you see? COMEY: I think they had more talent, smarter people, the first time. They had people who were willing to go along, be a little bit sycophantic, but they were people who had the skills to try and protect institutional interests, to distract the President, to lead him off to something else, to avoid doing things that didn't make sense in light of the obligations they had to lead institutions like the FBI or DOJ and that's gone. It's four seasons total landscaping all the way down. It's sycophants, it's people who will try and please the President, and so, that's -- I never thought I'd say we missed the old gang from Trump 1.0, but I do.

BERMAN: Kash Patel is the director of the FBI. There are some reports he misses some morning briefings. He's very visibly been at a lot of sporting events out there in the public. How concerned are you about that and what do you think the rank and file of the FBI sees there?

COMEY: I'm not the least bit concerned about that, given that nothing in his life will have prepared him to be FBI director. I'm fine if he is out doing other things and letting the career people make the decisions about operations, about priorities that would be better for everybody.

BERMAN: Do you think the career people are making the decisions behind the scenes?

COMEY: It's hard for me to say. I mean, I'm sure they are because they know what they're doing. So, if you're going to go from being an outsider who knows nothing about the institution to the inside, you're going to have to rely on the career people.

BERMAN: One of the things we led with tonight, and they're still murky details about this, the possibility that federal prosecutors flouted a federal judge's order. The federal judge seems to think that it's possible that they flouted his order, and they may have deported some migrants to South Sudan. The idea of flouting a federal judge's order seems to be something more common now, or more discussed or not as foreboding and maybe as it used to be. What do you see here? Do you see prosecutors willing to push the envelope more?

COMEY: I can't tell. There's certainly a lot of aggressive rhetoric in that way, but it is suicidal from a career perspective, for a lawyer for the United States Department of Justice to violate -- knowingly violate a court order.

There will be consequences that will be life changing for that lawyer. And so, I don't know whether we've moved from a lot of aggressive talk, which is characteristic of the Trump world to lawyers actually making that life changing decision.

BERMAN: Former FBI Director James Comey, author of "FDR Drive." Good luck out there with a book. Thank you so much.

COMEY: Thanks for having me. Good to be with you.

BERMAN: All right, up next, four witnesses took the stand today in the trial of Sean Combs including Cassie Ventura's mother who said she paid Combs thousands of dollars out of fear for Cassie's safety.

Plus breaking news on former President Biden's cancer diagnosis and why Patti Davis, daughter of the late President Reagan says, Biden's cancer fight could actually be an opportunity for him and the country.

[20:30:42]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:46]

BERMAN: All right, four witnesses on the stand today in Sean Combs' federal racketeering and sex trafficking trial, including the mother of Combs' ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura, who previously testified in this case. Also today, a male escort who said he testified that he was paid to participate in these so-called freak-off parties.

With us now, CNN Anchor and Chief Legal Analyst Laura Coates and CNN Correspondent Kara Scannell. They were both in the courthouse today. Kara, first, do you -- just talk to us about Cassie Ventura's mother? What did she say in the stand?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: She testified about this period of December 2011, and she said that all around the same period of time, she'd received an email from Cassie telling her that Combs was threatening to release sexually explicit videos of her, which her mother said threw her, and also that Combs was threatening to have somebody physically harm Ventura and Kid Cudi, who she was seeing at the time.

Now, at the same time -- so Ventura's mom said she felt physically sick when she got that email, and also at the same time, she said she'd received from Combs a demand for $20,000. That's the first time we've heard about this in this case. And so she testified that Combs was angry that Cassie was seeing someone else, and he had put money -- he had spent money on her, and he wanted to recoup that money.

So Ventura's mom said she took out a home equity loan and had wired the money to a bad boy account at the direction of Combs' bookkeeper, and then four to five days later, the $20,000 came back. Nothing said about it. She also testified about photos that she took in that same period of time when Ventura was home at Christmas, photos that showed bruising on Ventura's back and on her thigh, and Ventura had told her for the first time that Combs had been assaulting her.

So her mother kind of fills this picture of what she knew at that time and this first time we ever heard anything about this blackmail or what the prosecution was suggesting that, because after the money was paid, Ventura got back together with Combs.

BERMAN: So, Laura, it's interesting, because in the run-up to today's testimony with Cassie Ventura's mother, we had plenty of legal analysts on our show in the morning say, not quite sure why the mother is testifying, seems like an odd person to be on the witness list. But how significant do you think it turned out to be and how surprised were you the defense didn't have any questions for her? LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR & CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it's always a risk having a mother on in terms of whether you can move the middle of their testimony. What's she going to say? Anything critical about their child?

BERMAN: Right.

COATES: No. And yet, talking about wanting to fight him or trying to fight him, the idea of having to wrestle with him for a telephone where he tried to get it back from Sean "Diddy" Combs, and they took the car away from her, giving the $20,000 payment discussion.

Why didn't we hear from this before, though, was a big question I kept asking. This was a, what, four to five-day testimony of Cassie Ventura. We never heard about a $20,000 loan that was taken out by her family. That was surprising to me.

We didn't hear about the fight for the phone as well. It might be used by the defense later on to suggest that it's significant because what Cassie has left out, they will try to undermine her credibility. On the other hand, for the prosecution, you're saying thematically it is all the same.

This is a violent person who tried to essentially maybe even extort or prey upon the sensibilities and delicacies of the love a mother has for her child. Why would he do anything different for Cassie? But again, the prosecution has a long way to go to prove their burden of proof.

Racketeering, RICO --

BERMAN: Yes.

COATES: -- sex trafficking. We're not yet there, but we're only a couple days in.

BERMAN: So how far are we, though? And I know you talk about this every night. You do such a great job analyzing this trial. But the -- and you've been hitting on this point. They've got to prove racketeering --

COATES: Yes.

BERMAN: -- and RICO, I mean, and sex trafficking. How much more do they have to cover to make that case?

COATES: They're going to have to get testimony from people who are actually part of this inner circle, who are comprising this enterprise. We are seeing a former assistant. We heard from that person today. We need to hear from more people who can say that, essentially, Sean "Diddy" Combs was ordering an operation or a scheme with an end goal that was criminal.

Now, that is not necessarily, you know, unbelievable to make, but you're going to have to give the people who were in that position the time to testify. Right now, we're hearing a lot about the inner circle, the high-level officials, the trusted advisers, the assistants. We heard that in the opening statement. We hear from that.

But a RICO charge is significant. It carries a lifetime penalty, and a jury wants the dot connected for them. They don't want to be out there saying, I guess this is kind of like a mob. They want the proof.

BERMAN: Yes.

[20:40:07]

SCANNELL: And the people that have testified from Combs's inner circle so far, I mean, this personal assistant, he doesn't know anything about the freak-offs. He just testified --

COATES: Right.

SCANNELL: -- about working for Combs and the environment. But that's the dot they have to connect to, some of this -- not just the violence that existed, but to the sex-trafficking elements of it.

BERMAN: And that's the best way to look at this trial. Every day, ask yourself, how much did the prosecution prove when it comes to trafficking and racketeering? Because that's the case, so the jury will decide.

Kara Scannell, Laura Coates, great to see you both. I know we're going to see much more from you later tonight. Don't miss a special edition of Laura Coates Live, 11:00 p.m. Eastern, focused on the Combs' trial.

Still to come, breaking news on former President Biden's last known test to screen for prostate cancer. And I'm going to be joined by Ronald Reagan's daughter on what she says the former president can now do for the country.

And later, new developments in the stunning jailbreak in New Orleans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:45:39]

BERMAN: All right, some breaking news tonight on former President Biden's diagnosis of stage 4 prostate cancer. A Biden spokesperson said the former president's last known blood test for the disease was in 2014 and he was never diagnosed with cancer until last Friday.

My next guest wrote an opinion piece to the New York Times about the former president's diagnosis titled, "Joe Biden Has a Chance to Do Something Astounding". On the byline, Patti Davis, daughter of former President Ronald Reagan.

She's also the author of "Dear Mom and Dad: A Letter About Family, Memory, and the America We Once Knew". And Patti Davis joins us now. Thank you so much for being with us.

I want to read you part of what you wrote in your op-ed. "Ronald Reagan wrote a letter to America," you said, "announcing he'd been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. He and my mother had decided to share the news he wrote because in opening our hearts, we hope this might promote greater awareness of his condition. Perhaps it will encourage a clearer understanding of the individuals and families who are affected by it".

You went on to say, quote, "Joe Biden informed the nation of his diagnosis with prostate cancer. For the former president, it is, of course, a personal matter, but it can also be something else, an opportunity to show leadership, not in the arena of national or global politics, but on a vulnerable human level".

So what do you want to see it here from former president right now?

PATTI DAVIS, DAUGHTER OF FORMER PRES. RONALD REAGAN: Well, you know, leadership takes a lot of different forms and it doesn't always play out on the world stage. It doesn't always play out in terms of global affairs. Sometimes it's in the moments that touch people's hearts or influence people's lives.

My father's speech after the Challenger disaster, George W. Bush going to ground zero after 9/11, Barack Obama singing Amazing Grace after a mass shooting in a church. Those are very human moments. And Joe Biden is facing something that millions of people face.

We all face our own mortality in one, you know, at some point. And most of us are afraid of it. And there are millions of people who get a terrible diagnosis or have some terrible accident that changes their life forever.

And they feel lonely. They feel isolated. They feel terrified. And I think he has an opportunity to tell people what he's going through emotionally. How does he process this? How do you process a diagnosis like this at age 82? Where does his faith come into this?

He is a man of deep faith. But does that lift him above what I wrote about in the piece, the dark nights when death is standing in the doorway whispering maybe? You know, those are questions that I wish, actually, that I had asked my father.

I mean, he was a man of deep faith, too. And I didn't ask him, and I wish that I had. But I think that it would -- I think it could help people. I think he -- look, the story, all of what's coming out, the revelations about what was concealed and what wasn't divulged is now part of his story. That's not going to go away, unfortunately.

But his story's not over yet. And this could be another chapter in his story that actually helps people.

BERMAN: Yes, you know, it's such a good point. And you say of cancer these days, you know, it's spoken of openly, but, quote, "the emotional tidal waves that come with it are often not". Now, President Biden actually talks a lot about grief.

One of the things he's had to deal with for over 50 years is grief, first after losing his wife and daughter and then, you know, and then after losing his son, Beau. We've talked about Beau's cancer. But how open do you think he needs to be about his own struggle? Because that's different, right? When you're talking about yourself, it's different.

DAVIS: It is different. I was just going to say that's different. And he has been very open about his grief. But it is different. It's different facing the loss of a loved one versus facing your own mortality. I don't know that there's anything, you know, more frightening than that.

And, I mean, I would like to know -- I mean, getting back to his faith, I would like to know if that does lift him up over those dark moments. Or does he have moments when he's angry at God, when he's asking God, why did this happen to me? Or those sort of biblical moments of why have you forsaken me, you know?

[20:50:05]

I think that would be very helpful to -- for people to know whether they're struggling with their own trauma or not. I just think it's something that could transcend politics, transcend all of the negativity that's out there and allow him to do something, give people a gift of insight.

BERMAN: You know, very quickly, obviously, your father's Alzheimer's diagnosis changed the discussion around Alzheimer's in the country. Quickly, how do you think that former President Biden's prostate cancer diagnosis might change the discussion about that?

DAVIS: Well, I mean, I don't -- I'm not a doctor and I don't know a lot about prostate cancer.

BERMAN: Right.

DAVIS: I mean, you know, if people get more screened more or something, that's good. That's great. I'm -- my focus was on the emotional part of it, you know, whether it was prostate cancer or something else. At that stage of life in your 80s, you know, do you take treatments that obviously have side effects or do you accept that this is the end?

I would just -- I think that so many people would benefit from hearing about that, from -- would benefit from hearing about his emotional struggles, his questions --

BERMAN: Yes.

DAVIS: -- his doubts, his faith.

BERMAN: Patti Davis, great discussion. The op-ed is terrific. We thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

DAVIS: Thank you. I appreciate it.

BERMAN: All right, moving on, TV fans are remembering a sitcom legend tonight. And to borrow a phrase, everybody knew his name.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good afternoon, everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's going on, Mr. Peterson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's talk about what's going in, Mr. Peterson.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: Actor George Wendt died peacefully at home today, according to his family. And while he had more than 170 acting credits, it's the nearly 11 years Wendt spent playing the sarcastic barfly Norm Peterson on "Cheers", for which he will likely be most remembered.

Now, if you're below a certain age, it might be difficult to process just how big a hit the Thursday night show about a fictional Boston pub really was. But think of it this way. When Cheers went off the air on May 20th, 1993, exactly 32 years ago tonight, 32 years ago tonight, more than 80 million Americans tuned in.

George Wendt was 76 years old.

Coming up, while the manhunt continues in the search for those escaped New Orleans inmates, the arrest of someone who allegedly helped them break out of jail. Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:57:17]

BERMAN: All right, the manhunt continues, where six of the 10 escaped prisoners from that New Orleans jailbreak, four have been captured so far. And a major update, an employee who authorities say helped them break out has been arrested. This man, Sterling Williams, a maintenance worker with the Orleans Parish Sheriff's Office.

With us now is CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Chief Charles Ramsey. Chief, thanks so much for being with us. So this maintenance worker, how likely do you think he was the only person on the inside who helped the prisoners escape, considering it was 10 who managed to get loose?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Personally, I don't think he's the only one. And I think it's the investigation, the internal investigation as to what actually took place that led to the escape. I think you'll find more people involved.

I mean, this is more than just cutting off water in a cell. I mean, not only did they do that, they had to, and you had the video of the two really working the door. I mean, how can you not hear that?

They had to go through the wall. How could you not hear that? And they had to go through rebar. Then they had to scale a wall. For absolutely no one else to see them, it took them seven hours before they notified authorities that there had been an escape. And another hour after that, before they notified the New Orleans Police Department. So, I mean, you've got an inside job, no question about it, but you've also got a lot of negligence.

BERMAN: And you also now have the arrest of this maintenance worker. So what do you think authorities are trying to get from this person now?

RAMSEY: Well, hopefully he flips and, you know, they'll interrogate him. They'll find out if anyone else was involved. At the same time, they're going through a lot of video tape right now to see which guards or other employees had actual conversations or contact with any of the 10 individuals to see whether or not they could possibly have been involved.

And of course, they'll be interviewing them as well, including the individual who was supposedly monitoring the cameras, but decided to go get lunch at the exact time they escaped, which sounds a bit suspicious to me. So they've got a lot of people to talk to. And I'd be surprised if this doesn't lead to more arrests.

BERMAN: Chief, I have to tell you, for the second night in a row, while we're on the air talking about this, we're just getting word that one of the prisoners, an additional one, has been captured. So now five captured, five still on the loose.

We've got about 40 seconds left here. How hard will it be for these five out there to remain on the run?

RAMSEY: Well, they've got help on the outside as well, but you've got the U.S. Marshals, you've got the FBI, ATF, New Orleans Police, Louisiana State Police. I mean, they're going all out. They will catch these guys. Let's just hope they don't hurt anybody before they're captured, because they are violent criminals.

BERMAN: Yes, and that is the concern with authorities in New Orleans, that these people could be targeting some of the folks who worked to put them behind bars in the first place. We heard a lot of concern coming from the D.A.'s office itself.

Chief Ramsey, thank you so much for your time tonight. Again, the breaking news, a fifth one of the escapees has been captured, five remain on the run.

I'll see you tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. alongside Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan for CNN News Central.

The news continues. The Source starts now.