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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Judge: Harvard "Will Sustain Immediate And Irreparable Injury"; Interview With Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-MA), President. Trump Demands Apple, Samsung And Others Make Their Phones In U.S. Or Face 25 Percent Tariff; Trump Hosted Lavish Dinner For Top Crypto Buyers; Billy Joel Diagnosed With Neurological Disorder, Cancels All Concerts; Trump Admin Shuts Down Federal Program Aimed At Helping Repair Raw Sewage Problem Impacting Alabama Homes; Calls It "Illegal DEI"; How Sister Monica Clare Went From Having A Hollywood Career To Becoming A Nun. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired May 23, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Fascinating, Sunlen. Really appreciate the reporting, thank you.

Billy Joel canceling all of his upcoming tour dates after being diagnosed with a brain disorder known as normal pressure hydrocephalus or NPH.

In announcing the news today, Joel said the condition has been "exacerbated by recent concert performances, leading to problems with hearing, vision and balance." NPH occurs when fluid builds up inside the skull pressing on the brain.

Joel had previously delayed his tour by four months and also revealed at that time of prior surgery.

Thanks so much for joining us tonight. I'm Erica Hill, in for Erin Burnett. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:39]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, breaking news in the Trump administration's battle with Harvard. Find out what a federal judge said about the case and what happens next.

Also tonight, the President wants iPhones to be made in America, or Apple will face a 25 percent tariff, he says. I'll talk to Kara Swisher about why either way, you could be paying a lot more.

And later, music legend Billy Joel announces he's suffering from a rare brain disorder. Doctor Sanjay Gupta tonight on what treatment may look like for the rock and roll Hall of Famer.

Good evening, we begin tonight as the nation heads into the Memorial Day weekend with its commander-in-chief seemingly not in a solemn or reflective mood, but perhaps a more vengeful one.

Today in the Oval Office, the President was asked about his administration's latest attack on Harvard University. Just yesterday, the Department of Homeland Security announced they were revoking the school's ability to enroll foreign students.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Are you considering stopping other universities besides Harvard from accepting foreign students?

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, we're taking a look at a lot of things and as you know, billions of dollars has been paid to Harvard. How ridiculous is that? Billions and they have $52 billion as an endowment. They have $52 billion and this country is paying billions and billions of dollars and then give student loans, and they have to pay back the loans. So, Harvard's going to have to change its ways. So are some others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, Harvard is, of course, not the only university that's been targeted by the Trump administration, or even the only university targeted yesterday.

The Department of Health and Human Services accused Columbia of violating federal Civil Rights law by acting with what they call deliberate indifference toward harassment of Jewish students on campus since the October 7th attacks.

It caps off a very busy week for the President and those in his administration regards to investigations. Peter Baker, chief White House correspondent for "The New York Times," posted on X a list of those who were, as he wrote, charged, investigated or threatened with investigation by Trump or his team just in recent days.

Here's his list: Letitia James, Andrew Cuomo, Lamonica McIver, a Democratic member of Congress. Kamala Harris, Bruce Springsteen, Beyonce, Bono, Oprah Winfrey, James Comey, unnamed treasonous Biden aides, the City of Chicago and the Kennedy Center.

As for Harvard, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem announced she was essentially banning these students from attending after she says the university failed to hand over five years of records on international students, specifying they should include any disciplinary actions, as well as audio and video footage of any protest activity the students participated in.

Harvard says they complied with the records request. Today, the university filed suit in federal court. They argued it was clear retaliation for Harvard exercising its First Amendment rights to reject the governments demands to control Harvard's governance, curriculum and the ideology of its faculty and students.

Now, the student -- the suit went on to say, with the stroke of a pen, the government has sought to erase, a quarter of Harvard's student body. Foreign students do make up 27 percent of Harvard's enrollment this year, even for a school with an endowment as large as Harvard's potentially losing such a massive part of its students is no small threat. There are also concerns that other universities that whatever happens, it will lead to a chilling effect that the best and brightest students from around the world will not want to risk coming to any American institution for fear their lives and their studies could be upended by a mercurial administration.

This is just the latest financial blow dealt to Harvard by the Trump administration. The White House already froze more than $2.6 billion in federal grants and contracts, and the IRS is making plans to revoke Harvard's tax exempt status. Late today, some breaking news in the case a federal judge granted a reprieve, temporarily halting the ban on foreign students, saying the school, quote, will sustain immediate and irreparable injury if the government were allowed to revoke the schools certification before the court could consider the matter. A hearing is set for next week.

Want to check in with Jason Carroll, who is in Cambridge, Massachusetts, right now near Harvard University. You spoke with some international students. What did they tell you -- Jason?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, Anderson, there's a lot of uncertainty here on campus, a lot of unease. These students that we spoke to really feel as though this is not just an attack on Harvard. They feel like this is an attack on higher education. And the international students here basically feel as though they're just being caught in the middle of it all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice over): For many international students at Harvard, being accepted and coming here is a dream come true, a dream many now fear is coming to an end.

[20:05:10]

LEO GERDEN, HARVARD STUDENT FROM SWEDEN: I came to this place because I love this country and I love the values that it stands for and its openness to people of different backgrounds. And I truly believe that that is still America but right now, Trump is attacking all of those values.

VID KAREN, HARVARD STUDENT: I'm in limbo. And, you know, the government has showed its hand here, and it showed to what lengths it is willing to go.

CARROLL (voice over): Vid Karen (ph) and students like him are now faced with big decisions. Do they stay and hope the courts permanently block the Trump administrations order banning Harvard from admitting international students or not take the risk and leave?

ABDULLLAH SHAHID SIAL, HARVARD STUDENT FROM PAKISTAN: Right now, were not sure. No one is sure if were legally allowed in the U.S. or not.

CARROLL (voice over): Abdulllah Shahid Sial is Harvard student body President and a sophomore studying Applied Mathematics.

CARROLL (on camera): Do you feel confident that you will be able to come back and study in the fall?

SIAL: Not at all. No, not even close. I'm not confident about that.

CARROLL (voice over): The administration says its efforts are in part, an effort to get Harvard to do more to stop antisemitism on campus. This international student from Israel says while the university could take more action, she does not believe the Trump administration's decisions are helping.

GENIA LUKIN, HARVARD STUDENT FROM ISRAEL: This specific measure targets a population that is not actually in position to fight any of it, and that is also going to include, among others, Jewish and Israeli students who have been experiencing this antisemitism and hostile environment for the past two years and now are also experiencing this mess.

CARROLL (voice over): Harvard professor Ryan Enos says. Even if the courts ultimately decide in Harvard's favor, the damage may already be done.

RYAN ENOS, HARVARD PROFESSOR: I am not sure I can look to a student now with a straight face and say, I can guarantee what's going to be in the future for you. And that's a really sad thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (on camera): And, Anderson, one other point that the professor wanted to make is he says, oftentimes there are so many of these students who come to him looking for advice. These international students now have been coming to him asking what they should do, what they should do? And he told me, he said, look, I can't look at them straight at the eye -- straight in the eye with confidence and tell them specifically what their next step should be -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, Jason Carroll, thanks very much. I want to get perspective now from Massachusetts Congressman Jake Auchincloss, who's also a Harvard alumnus.

So, Congressman, the White House says enrolling foreign students is a privilege, not a right. What do you say?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): Anderson, good evening, thanks for having me on. I think Donald Trump is behaving just like the unhinged anti-Israel campus protesters that he's claiming he opposes. He's performative, he's illogical, he's cruel, and he's doing nothing to help address antisemitism on campus.

Bullying students from Nigeria, from China, from Europe does not help students from Israel.

COOPER: You were actually critical of Harvard for some of their response to protests. DHS says it took this action because Harvard didn't sufficiently respond to its demand for information about every student who was there on a visa. The university said it did provide that information and says that the government's real motive is retribution from the ideological -- stemming from ideological demands it made to the school in April to ban DEI initiatives and restrict campus protests. What do you think is at the heart of this?

AUCHINCLOSS: I'm a ferocious critic of how Harvard responded to October 7th. There's a direct line from the antisemitism that was allowed to flourish on Harvard and other elite campuses, and the type of antisemitic violence that we saw two days ago in Washington, D.C.

Antisemitic words do become antisemitic murders and the inability of progressives to check and condemn that antisemitism on the left has allowed these tragedies to unfurl, whether at Governor Shapiro's house or elsewhere.

So, I remain very critical of progressive institutions that won't check antisemitism on the left. But MAGA is not the organization or the movement that's going to address that.

I mean, the hypocrisy on the hard right is just as galling. You've got Tucker Carlson and others who are courting holocaust denials. You've got the Republicans on the same night that these two, young Jews were gunned down in Washington, D.C., voting to subsidize the purchase of silencers for pistols.

So hard right, extreme left -- neither side is equipped to help build out a liberal, truth seeking culture on these campuses, which is what Harvard needs.

COOPER: What do you think the impact of getting rid of -- I mean, if it happens, getting rid of all the foreign students, which is 27 percent of the student body this year, not just has on universities, but also on American businesses. I mean, these are often the best and the brightest students from around the world who will then go on to work for American companies or tech companies here doing cutting edge research, cutting edge, you know, innovation.

[20:10:24]

AUCHINCLOSS: Without doubt, Anderson, high skilled immigration to our universities is an economic boom. I'll give you one example of that. Everyone's talking about generative A.I. and the impact of A.I.

The 2017 paper, "Attention is All You Need," was a seminal piece of research that really launched this new A.I. era that were in. There were eight authors on that paper, seven of them, Anderson were immigrants, and the eighth was the grandson of refugees. The cutting edge research that this country does is done with an accent.

COOPER: Do you think the President's allies just want to be able to say that they brought Harvard to its knees? I mean, it is a world famous, wealthy, liberal leaning institution in New England. Is it kind of the ultimate target?

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes, this is about culture, not about politics or policy. They're attacking Harvard for the same reason they're attacking the National Institutes of Health or NATO or National Public Radio. They view these various institutions which are at the commanding heights of western culture, as having been taken over by leftists, and so they're launching guerrilla warfare against these institutions. And our job is to defend these institutions without defending the status quo.

We can say that we believe in academic freedom and the freedom of expression on university campuses without having to reflexively defend everything that happened on these campuses, because they do need to fix themselves and they can. But we are not going to allow Donald Trump to use them as a punching bag for his own political ends.

COOPER: Yes, Congressman Jake Auchincloss, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

AUCHINCLOSS: Thanks, Anderson.

COOPER: There's breaking news tonight with President Trump's targeting of prominent law firms associated with his perceived enemies. A federal court has struck down the President's executive order that terminated government contracts and security clearances held by a firm, Jenner & Block. The judge, John Bates, ruled in part, and I quote, "This order, like the others, seeks to chill legal representation the administration doesn't like, thereby insulating the executive branch from the judicial check fundamental to the separation of powers."

Also tonight, "The New York Times" reports that four key partners have left Paul Weiss, one of the other law firms, that it was targeted by President Trump to set up shop for themselves. Unlike Jenner & Block, Paul Weiss cut a deal with the President to leave it alone as long as it does tens of millions of dollars in pro bono work for Trump aligned causes.

Coming up, we're learning more about President Trump's meme coin gala filled with several anonymous investors last night. I will talk to Kara Swisher about the Presidents push to have iPhones built in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When they build their plant here there's no tariff, so they're going to be building plants here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:17:26]

COOPER: In a social media post this morning, President Trump demanded that Apple move their manufacturing operations to the U.S. and start making iPhones here. And if they refuse, he will impose a 25 percent tariff on them. The President was asked about it today in the oval office and indicated that other phone manufacturers would also be subject to the tariffs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It would be also Samsung and anybody that makes that product; otherwise, it wouldn't be fair. So anybody that makes that product and that will start on, I guess, the end of June.

When they build their plant here, there's no tariff. So they're going to be building plants here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, the idea of Apple producing iPhones in the U.S. is not new. It has consistently been shot down by Apple, Steve Jobs, the late Apple founder and CEO, brought it up to President Obama in 2010, telling him that the U.S. simply didn't have the engineers to support a U.S. based manufacturing operation, a position the current Apple CEO, Tim Cook, has echoed.

Even if Apple began moving operations to the U.S. right now, industry experts say it would take five to 10 years to set up and would dramatically raise the price of an iPhone.

Joining me now with more on the story, CNN's senior data analyst, Harry Enten. So how many Americans own iPhones?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: You know, let me tell you, when I think of the iPhone, I think of my girlfriend. Why is that? Because every single time I look over to my left, she's on her freaking iPhone, okay.

And it turns out she's not alone, right? I like anecdata what percentage of Americans are on their phone, their smart phone, at least two hours a day? What are we talking about here? We're talking about the vast majority. Look at that, 75 percent of Americans are on their smartphones at least two hours a day. How about six hours a day? I think that's more where my girlfriend is 23 percent. We're talking about a quarter of Americans. This is reaching everybody.

Now, of course, we're not just talking about crummy phones like the one that I have here. We're talking about iPhones.

COOPER: You actually use that?

ENTEN: I actually use it, here, you can play with it.

COOPER: Do they make these anymore?

ENTEN: They do make those. They still make them. I got it from --we'll just say I got it from an interesting place. Anyway, we're talking about iPhones, right? What number of Americans have iPhones?

COOPER: That's what I asked you.

ENTEN: Yes, that is what you asked me. If you look at this, look at the number of Americans who have iPhones at this point. Look at this, in 2004, before the iPhone was created, it was zero. Then it was 88 million, in 2014. Look at the number that we have now. It is 155 million.

It's not just that the majority of adults have an iPhone. It's that the number of Americans that has the iPhone continues to grow, and it's even more popular among teenagers than it is among adults at large.

COOPER: And if it was manufactured in the U.S., how much would the price go up?

ENTEN: Yes, okay. So, that's I think the big question is. Okay, let's bring this and we're going to bring -- let's say we enter a magical universe where Donald Trump gets his way and the iPhone, in fact, would be produced in America. Right now, the iPhone basically costs about a thousand dollars, right?

So, that is the exact price my girlfriend paid. But let's say all of a sudden that the iPhone is going to be produced here. Well, there are estimates of how much that would cost. Look at this estimate, my goodness gracious, it would cost $3,500.00. That is nutter-butter, Anderson, that is crazy.

So, the idea that these tariffs would make the phones actually produced here, to be perfectly honest with you, its fantasy island because what would actually happen Apple would probably either "A" eat the tariff costs or "B" they would pass it on to the consumer, but it would not result in what I think Donald Trump actually wants, which is the iPhone being produced here. It would simply drive up costs for the American consumer. And, you know, I'll ask you one final question. Do you think the American consumer likes the idea of prices going up?

[20:20:44]

COOPER: Is that a hypothetical --

ENTEN: It's a hypothetical -- I'm asking I'm asking the same question.

COOPER: All right. All right.

ENTEN: The answer is no, of course not. So it would just drive his approval ratings down. This, to me, is one of the sillier ideas that Donald Trump has had. And he's had many silly of them of them about four months in.

COOPER: Harry Enten, thanks very much, appreciate it.

ENTEN: Thank you.

COOPER: We're joined now by tech journalist, CNN contributor Kara Swisher. She's the host of "Pivot" and "On with Kara Swisher Podcast". Thanks for joining us. How are you doing?

KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I was on the phone with Harry's girlfriend. You know, what the heck?

COOPER: She's going to be here next. So, what do you think it means for tech or for business in general? The President isn't just targeting countries or industries like when he said he would, you know, tariff firms made overseas, but he's now threatening individual companies.

SWISHER: Well, that's what he does. I mean, he used to do it by name before in the previous administration. Now, he's doing it by company. He can't muscle companies into prices like yelling at Disney or yelling at Apple or whatever. They'll make what they want to make. These are massive global corporations that have business all over the world, and they're as big as some countries, some of these entities.

Apple will do what's right for Apple. There are some questions about how much money they invested in China, largely Tim Cook who did all those logistics and that's a good question to ask. But the idea of bringing these companies back here is I think he's thinking back in the 80s when they brought the cars here, the car manufacturers. And that could happen for some stuff. But the prices will go up considerably. And so, that will be a loser for a lot of these companies.

COOPER: Yes, I mean, it's not realistic for iPhones to be made completely here in the United States. I mean, maybe, maybe they would open some assembly lines or something here. I don't know if that would appease the President.

SWISHER: Well, you don't want people making -- the things that that he wants us to make are things that the United States should make anymore. We should having the advanced research stuff, the newer stuff, maybe some chips and things like that. But we should be leaning into the future, not leaning into the past. And I think these supply lines are all set where they are. And of course they can change, like going to Vietnam or India that would probably that's where he also doesn't want them to happen.

But they're certainly not going to come back here in the way he -- he's living in a different era of manufacturing and it's just not the way things are made anymore. And eventually, you know, at some point you'll be printing iPhones in the future, but not today.

COOPER: It also, I mean, this is why the kind of the attack against foreign students at American universities, in Harvard right now, could be at others seem so shortsighted because if you want stuff being done in the United States, having the best and brightest from all around the world who want to come to the U.S. because we have superior education here and stay in the U.S. and work for companies that are here, that -- I mean, this is the exact opposite of what -- if Trump wants businesses here -- you want the best and brightest from all over coming here.

SWISHER: Yes, it makes no sense. Let me just list some of the executives that are who are important tech people. Satya Nadella of Microsoft CEO, the head of the head of excuse me, Alphabet Sundar Pichai. Elon Musk is from South Africa. You could go through Sergey Brin, who started Google is from Russia, who came from Russia.

There are so many incredible people working throughout the tech industry. This is -- I don't even understand what's happening here because we have remained innovative due to our ability to bring immigrants into this country, and also people that were born here, and make them have entrepreneurial opportunities they didn't have at home.

Now, they'll be going back home and doing those things, or they'll be sent back home. The whole thing makes zero sense. If we want innovation in the future, in A.I., in robotics, in advanced medical stuff, I mean, all the stuff that's going forward, we have to have a robust pipeline of talent from across the globe.

Again, global companies, these are not American companies, they're global companies.

COOPER: You know, Tim Cook went to the inauguration, obviously, as a lot of other of the tech folks did, hoping to develop a relationship, hoping that would have an impact. Just as we have seen with the President and these law firms, no amount of it seems acquiescence to an initial demand is -- will ever satisfy the President that its always --

SWISHER: No.

COOPER: These law firms have made deals thinking, oh, we're going to only do pro bono work on things that, you know, we have mutual agreement on, like veterans causes. They can be tapped by this President to do just about anything.

[20:25:23]

SWISHER: Well, you know, Donald Trump has a limited time in office compared to these companies. These companies will be here later and they will form alliances as they need to because they are city states in many ways. If you think about they're city countries in a lot of ways, and so they'll form alliances and they'll do what they need to do, but they are also watching to what's next and what they need to do. But they always do things in their self-interest.

And Donald Trump can put a lot of pressure on them. And it could set us back in many ways, especially in A.I. or some other things that are coming. But it's not going to stop the march of capitalism, which is relentless and will not change, I think.

COOPER: The assault, though, on research to me is particularly troubling because, I mean, you know, this is -- it doesn't get a lot of publicity. But, you know, these are doctors, these are, all sorts of people doing cutting edge research that takes years to set up, years to attract that kind of talent, to destroy it now, the ripple effects of it can last for decades.

SWISHER: Yes, we don't know what didn't get invented. We didn't know the Google or some health care, the cancer research, the using the use of A.I. in cancer. There's so much exciting stuff happening right now in these areas of mixing technology and science and medicine and everything else, and the fact that you're shutting them down and making people feel insecure is the worst possible thing to do if we want to remain dominant in so many of these important industries as we move forward. And these are job creating industries, too, in terms of and creating, you know, a better humanity in some cases, not all cases, but in some cases.

And so, it just is so shortsighted. It's so astonishingly shortsighted and not what the way this country has excelled over the years in technology or any other innovation.

COOPER: Yes, Kara Swisher, thanks so much, appreciate it.

SWISHER: Thanks.

COOPER: Coming up, new details on the President's crypto gala last night. We have more video from inside the van. I'll talk it over with former Obama chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel.

Also ahead, breaking news on Billy Joel. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us with details on the brain disorder the singer is facing that led him to cancel the rest of his concerts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:32:04]

COOPER: More now at President Trump's dinner last night for the top investors in his memecoin. As I mentioned last night, most of them are anonymous, but one has gone public, very public, Chinese-born crypto entrepreneur Justin Sun.

Take a look at this, Sun posted this video montage online at the event last night at the President's Virginia golf course. At the dinner, Sun's last name was listed on a poster showing he made the biggest investment in the memecoin. Currently, his investment is valued at $18 million, and last year he invested $75 million in another crypto venture with the Trump family.

As we told you last night, he had a civil fraud case brought against him by the SEC during the Biden administration, and it was paused when President Trump returned to the White House. On this program last night, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy said the memecoin might be close to the top of most corrupt things the President has done.

The White House has pushed back at any criticism, saying it's quote, "absurd" for anyone to insinuate this President is profiting off the presidency. Just before airtime, I spoke with CNN Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator Rahm Emanuel, former chief of staff for President Obama and former ambassador to Japan during the Biden administration.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: Ambassador, what's your reaction to the President's dinner last night for his memecoin buyers and the crypto ventures generally?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL: Well, I think the whole thing is unseemly for the White House, but worse than that, it puts a basically a for sale sign in front of the White House. And as you know, originally, go back a term Trump 1.0. He said he was going to drain the swamp.

And this is just a litany of a lot of things that are more than just unseemly are on this side of the line as it relates to corrupt. There's a Qatar jet that we just took this week. As I talked to you last week, which people got lost in the shuffle, a Chinese company affiliated with the Chinese Communist Party put $300 million dollars in the President's own company, Bitcoin company.

So there's literally no barriers to kind of, I think, a for sale. And if it's not nailed down, they're going to be selling it out of the White House.

COOPER: You wrote in a new op-ed or in The Washington Post that Democrats should focus on what you say are President Trump's three Cs -- corruption, chaos and cruelty. But you also write the Democrats should and you said set aside Trump's crypto schemes and a solicitation of Qatar's free plane. Those are baked into the electorate's deep seated cynicism. Is that not part of any potential corruption?

EMANUEL: Yes, I think first of all, the story here is exactly right. Those who are well healed got taken care of at the White House. A lot of retail investors lost in that Bitcoin effort. That's exactly what's going to happen in the budget deal.

Very wealthy people are going to get taken care of from a tax position. People are going to give it with their health care. As I said in that piece that you noted in The Washington Post, I said it's going to be tax cuts for the wealthy and health care cuts for the many.

And so if it's a paradigm where the well-connected who are well healed and also well versed in working the Trump White House, will get rich and everybody else will pay.

COOPER: Do you think the Democrats should focus on the so-called one big, beautiful bill that just passed the House.

[20:35:06]

EMANUEL: I think it's a launching pad into 2026. The 2026 election, like other midterms when one party controls both sides of Pennsylvania Avenue, has a certain structure. Outside party, opposition party energized, as you can see in the special elections that's happening.

Independents are breaking from the incumbent party. That you can see by two to one. And the incumbent party is somewhat depressed from a voter turnout compared to the last election. That architecture exists for 2026.

We're seeing it play out in many specials already across the country in different parts of the country. I think this is a target rich, meaning the reconciliation bill, very target rich for the basic narrative, corrupt, cruel and chaotic. Those who are well connected are going to get fed.

Everybody else will get slaughtered. And I think one of the things is a slight difference. And I say it in this -- in that Washington Post piece, Anderson, we think sometimes of corruption, Qatar jet, Bitcoin. The American people see corruption as those who are in on the inside taking -- is self-dealing and taking care of themselves, just like the Trump White House has permitted.

And everybody else is getting -- losing their health care or losing their investment. That's how they see corruption. It's a different than kind of good government kind of corruption. And both, though, fit in.

COOPER: Nancy Pelosi made headlines today with her saying that she thinks you're running for president. Are you?

EMANUEL: Well, I have something to say --

COOPER: Well, you've done your go-to.

EMANUEL: Yes, well, Nancy's a good friend, as you know. And what I'm going to do is take time to think about not just how to fight Donald Trump, although that's worthy of doing, but how to fight for the American people, how to make sure the American dream is still affordable and accessible.

I think one of the challenges we have in this country is that, that American dream, the moment it became unaffordable and inaccessible, is exactly when our politics became unstable. And if I think I have something that I need to offer both for the country and also I think for our party, I'll do it. But I haven't gotten to that decision point yet.

COOPER: When would -- like it's -- at what point would you have to make that decision?

EMANUEL: Well, you know, it's weird because, you know, I remember when I worked for Bill Clinton, he made it about a year out. But I don't really have that clock firmly fixed in my head.

COOPER: Ambassador Emanuel, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

EMANUEL: Thank you, Anderson. Hey, Anderson, if I could.

COOPER: Yes, yes.

EMANUEL: One last thing. To everybody, have a not only a healthy Memorial Day, but remember those who lost someone in their family, there's an empty seat at that table, an empty seat in the backyard at the picnic. And thank them for what they've done for this country.

COOPER: Yes.

Ambassador Emanuel, thank you. Appreciate it.

EMANUEL: Thank you.

COOPER: Up next, we have breaking news, music legend Billy Joel revealing he's battling a neurological disorder and canceling his concert tour while we're learning about his health condition ahead.

And the Trump administration calls a federal program to fix a raw sewage problem impacting several Alabama homes, illegal DEI. Our Isabel Rosales talks with those impacted.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It backflows into the house?

MAUTREE BURKE-CLARKE, LOWNDES COUNTY, ALABAMA RESIDENT: It will come back -- it flows in the house. Right.

ROSALES: How? Through where does it come?

BURKE-CLARKE: It'll come. Sometimes it'll come through the kitchen sink. And then sometimes it will come through the bathtubs.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:42:59]

COOPER: We have more breaking news tonight. Billy Joel is canceling his concert tour after being diagnosed with a rare neurological disorder. According to a statement from his team, the condition is known as normal pressure hydrocephalus or NPH.

They said the 76-year-old's recent performances exacerbated the condition. They also say he's been advised by his doctor to undergo specific physical therapy and that he looks forward to the day when he can once again take the stage.

You may recall Joel fell on stage during a concert in Connecticut back in February. It's unclear if that was related to this condition, but the next month he postponed eight tour dates to recover from surgery and also get physical therapy.

Our Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta's neurosurgeon joins us with more. Sanjay, can you explain exactly what is normal pressure hydrocephalus?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So this is basically additional fluid that's inside the brain. People have maybe heard the term hydrocephalus before. You typically think of it in kids or babies, water on the brain. But it can happen in adults as well.

Let me show you this image, Anderson. These are scans of the brain. On the left is normal brain. That's what it should look like. And you can probably tell when you look at the image on the right, those black areas in the middle of the brain are quite large. Those are the ventricles.

Those are normal fluid-filled spaces. But in someone with normal pressure hydrocephalus, they're much larger. And in part, it's because the brain around it has shrunk. So those ventricles sort of expand to fill the space. But that's pretty much what it looks like.

COOPER: And how common is it? GUPTA: This is -- it's not that common, but what's interesting about it is that it's often confused with other things. Like, someone may come in with memory problems or cognitive problems. They might think that they're dealing with dementia. And they get a scan. And instead, they see that. They see what looks like hydrocephalus.

It is very, very associated with three different types of symptoms. In fact, they call it the triad of normal pressure hydrocephalus. And that's walking problems, difficulties with balance, specifically. Sometimes it's bladder problems. And then cognitive problems, usually memory problems.

[20:45:09]

And when someone has those three things, especially if they're, you know, in their 70s or 80s, or even really over the age of 65, getting a scan, part of the reason they say, let's get a scan, is to look for this. So it's not common, but it is often confused with other things.

COOPER: What causes it? And I know you've operated on patients with the condition. What's the treatment?

GUPTA: Yes. So, you know, it's interesting in terms of what causes it. You know, sometimes the fluid just builds up in those areas that I was showing you. That would be high pressure. Because the fluid is actually building up.

In this case, it's because the brain around it, over time, this happens to everybody as you get older, your brain starts to shrink a little bit. And as the brain shrinks, those fluid filled spaces start to expand. So that's why it's normal pressure hydrocephalus.

First thing people typically do is they'll actually do what's called a lumbar puncture, putting a little needle in the lower back, because the fluid all sort of circulates around the brain and the spinal cord. So putting a needle in the lower back and draining some of the fluid and basically seeing what happens.

A lot of times when I've done that, patients within several hours or a day feel better pretty quickly. Their walking improves. Their cognition improves. Their bladder control improves. And that's usually a sign then that that normal pressure hydrocephalus is causing the symptoms.

And then I got my brain model here. And then what we typically do, if that's the case, is put a little catheter through the top of the brain right into one of those fluid filled spaces and then drain that fluid usually into the abdominal cavity.

COOPER: And do they have to keep doing that?

GUPTA: No. So the lumbar puncture is just a one-time thing and basically see if someone improves. Once you put the shunt in, that should stay and just continuously drain fluid. So to sort of bring down the size of those fluid filled spaces, it can be a really effective treatment for people. COOPER: Wow. Well, we wish him the best.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

COOPER: Now to Alabama, where President Trump has shut down a federal program aimed at helping some black communities fix a hazardous raw sewage problem. When announcing the decision last month, the Justice Department said the move was advancing the President's mandate to end what they called illegal DEI.

CNN's Isabel Rosales has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ROSALES: So what is this right here?

BURKE-CLARKE: This is actually the pipe that's run from our house to actually tank that was, you know, here. But now, you know, say the system just basically is caved in.

ROSALES: It collapsed.

BURKE-CLARKE: Right.

ROSALES: This sewage system.

BURKE-CLARKE: Right.

ROSALES (voice-over): In Lowndes County, flushing doesn't come without some thought and preparation.

ROSALES: Now, I see some water pulled up to here. Is this raw sewage that I'm looking at right now?

BURKE-CLARKE: It is. Yes.

ROSALES (voice-over): Land known for having the richest soil and the poorest people. The Blackbelt of Alabama is where Mautree Burke-Clarke calls home, named after its fertile black soil. But that hard soil is virtually non-absorbent. And community advocates tell us conventional septic systems are costly to replace.

BURKE-CLARKE: It's not because it will come back. You know, it will come back, it flows into the house.

ROSALES: It backflows into the house?

BURKE-CLARKE: Right.

ROSALES: How? Where does it come?

BURKE-CLARKE: It'll come sometimes to come through the kitchen sink. And then sometimes it will come through the bathtubs. The odor is unbearable. ROSALES (voice-over): A first of its kind, 18-month federal environmental justice investigation that ended in 2022 found the people of Lowndes County did not have access to proper sewage systems. And the State Department of Public Health engaged in a consistent pattern of inaction and or neglect that disproportionately impacted Black residents.

President Joe Biden's government agreed to set aside money to help address the sanitation crisis, including $8 million for Lowndes and two nearby counties to help install new septic tanks. But last month, the Trump Department of Justice terminated the agreement.

The DOJ will no longer push environmental justice as viewed through a distorting DEI lens, said the DOJ Civil Rights Division in a news release, calling the program illegal DEI. Lowndes County is a 72 percent majority Black community.

The median household income sits just above the poverty line at $35,000 a year. A standard septic system will run anywhere from $12,000 to $30,000, according to community advocates.

SHERRY BRADLEY, ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST, BLACKBELT UNINCORPORATED WASTEWATER PROGRAM: That's too much money.

ROSALES (voice-over): Sherry Bradley works to get low-income families septic systems. When she started six years ago, she estimated 70 percent of homes in Lowndes County had straight pipes, an illegal but sole option that involves rigging PVC pipes above ground to direct fecal matter away from homes.

Since then, progress. She's installed more than 120 systems and counting.

BRADLEY: Isabel, follow me in the back.

ROSALES: OK.

BRADLEY: I want to show you some things.

[20:50:01]

ROSALES (voice-over): Sherry takes me to a home she says will make the sanitation crisis brutally clear. This is the Paramond (ph) family. A disabled couple who tell me they need help.

BRADLEY: I want to show you what a straight pipe looks like when they flush the toilet. It comes straight out, but it goes on the ground. You see the green tint?

ROSALES: That's raw sewage right there.

BRADLEY: That's raw sewage.

ROSALES (voice-over): This is what straight piping looks like, leading fecal matter away from the home, leaking as it goes and leaving hazardous puddles of waste behind. BRADLEY: We operate 100 percent off of grants. If you want to fix the problem of getting raw sewage off the ground, it takes funding.

ROSALES (voice-over): Her organization was a sub-recipient of the Biden-era grant. She says now that it's been shut down by the Trump administration, at least 300 Alabamians who were in line for help are in limbo.

BRADLEY: I was surprised because everything they said the grant was, was not.

ROSALES: So you reject the notion that this is a matter of DEI?

BRADLEY: Completely, 100 percent.

ROSALES (voice-over): Sherry says Blackbelt residents are a resilient bunch, and she too will fight on, looking to other grants.

ROSALES: Can this be done without the help of the federal government?

BRADLEY: Oh, no. I think, Isabel, that the federal government has a duty to help. Just like they help in the city, just like when they lay the sewer laterals, they have a duty to help.

ROSALES (voice-over): Isabel Rosales, CNN, Lowndes County, Alabama.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: Well, coming up next, so often people talk about transforming their lives, but it rarely happens. That's not the case for my next guest.

She was once part of a legendary improv group, performed with future SNL stars, then left Hollywood and her husband and became an Episcopalian nun. Now she's telling her story in her memoir. A chat with Sister Monica Clare ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:56:32]

COOPER: Imagine abandoning a Hollywood career to pursue your lifelong dream of becoming a nun. That's exactly what Sister Monica Clare, Sister Superior of the Community of St. John Baptist did. In her new book, "A Change of Habit", she shares her journey of leaving behind her husband, career and all she owned to take a vow of poverty and join a convent.

Sister Monica Clare joins me tonight. I've been reading the book. I'm so fascinated by this change in life that you made. So many people are unhappy with the lives they have, the jobs they have and dream about making a big change. You have made an enormous change.

SISTER MONICA CLARE, AUTHOR, "A CHANGE OF HABIT": Yes.

COOPER: When did you start to think, I'm really going to do this? SISTER MONICA CLARE: It actually happened when I was married. Believe it or not, I started emailing Roman Catholic nuns. And I said, I know it's going to sound crazy, but I've wanted to be a nun ever since I was a little kid. I tried to be normal. I tried to do what people told me would make me happy.

I'm married and I'm not Roman Catholic, but I really want to do this. And thank God that email really became a thing around that time because I was in a very unhappy marriage. And one of the nuns said to me, well, it seems like your political views are a little too left leaning, but you sound like an Episcopalian. And that changed my life.

COOPER: You hadn't thought -- did you know that Episcopalians had nuns?

SISTER MONICA CLARE: I had no idea. And part of what I'm doing on social media is to make the public aware that we exist because nobody knows that we exist. Even Episcopalians don't know.

COOPER: You were working -- I mean, you worked in the Groundlings improv.

SISTER MONICA CLARE: Yes.

COOPER: You were photo editor. You tempt for Steve Bannon when he was working in an investment firm. I mean --

SISTER MONICA CLARE: You're the first reporter who's asked me that.

COOPER: You just dropped that little nugget in there.

SISTER MONICA CLARE: I know.

COOPER: And then Jimmy Fallon's -- I haven't gotten to the part of the book about Jimmy Fallon's birthday party. What was it about Jimmy Fallon's birthday party that had something to do with you becoming a nun?

SISTER MONICA CLARE: That's a such a great question because that was a turning point for me in walking away from advertising and Hollywood and trying to be an actor, trying to be a comedian because it was at that party that I realized I would never fit in. I was never going to be good at schmoozing and networking and all that stuff.

I was an extreme introvert, so having to go to parties was like a breakout in hives when I had to go to a party. So that was like the experience. After that, I got in my car and I said, that's it, I'm done.

COOPER: It's interesting because I've been talking in this program two times to a guy who was miserable in his corporate job, made a video about it saying how unhappy he was. Everybody at his work saw it. He didn't realize they were all going to get it.

He quit and he's now sailing from Oregon to Hawaii --

SISTER MONICA CLARE: There you go.

COOPER: -- and plans to sail around the world. I just think there's a lot of people who would like to kind of do something different, but it's scary.

SISTER MONICA CLARE: It is. It's very daunting. And I remember when I was studying television writing, the teacher told us the most interesting story in the world is when you have a hero and a goal, a life and death goal, and you have an insurmountable obstacle between those two things.

That's an interesting story, seeing how they get around that obstacle. And I think if you're following your truth, the doors start opening for you a little bit easier than if you're -- you know, when I was banging on all the doors trying to be an actor, every door slammed in my face.

And then the minute I became a nun, suddenly I'm in the New York Times. So, God is good.

COOPER: Sister Monica Clare, thank you so much.

SISTER MONICA CLARE: Thank you.

COOPER: A programming note before we hand things over to The Source. George Clooney starring in Broadway's "Good Night and Good Luck" presented live on CNN in a first of its kind broadcast. It airs Saturday, June 7th at 7:00 p.m. on CNN and streaming on CNN.com.

The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.