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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
L.A. Protests Entering Fourth Night, Police and National Guard in Riot Gear; LAPD on Tactical Alert as Protesters Take to the Streets; 200 Marines Being Mobilized in Response to L.A. Protests; LAPD On "Tactical Alert" As Protesters Take To Streets; Demonstrators Throwing Projectiles, Police Fire Flasgbangs. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired June 09, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ...that as Newsom sued Trump and called his actions an unmistakable step toward authoritarianism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZELENY (on camera): And as the war of words continued, Governor Newsom is saying that he believes that the White House is also considering sending 2,000 more National Guard troops. Erin, tonight, he's saying this isn't about public safety, but in his words, it's about stroking a dangerous President's ego -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny. And we've just move away from the building here as we get ready to hand it off. I'm going to be here all night. You can see behind us they say are some of those U.S. Marines arriving in buses, right up behind us the federal building is right over here. You can see those -- We'll give you that shot, and I'll probably be up here in few moments here, let's hand it off now to AC360.
[20:00:46]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right, hundreds of active duty Marines, a battalion going into Los Angeles. That is the headline heading into the fourth night of protests there, some of which turned violent over the weekend over ICE Deportation roundups. L.A.'s mayor and police chief are expected to speak to reporters in just a few minutes. We are going to bring that to you live when it happens.
Meantime, what you're looking at right now, live pictures. People are out on the streets again. Limited, it seems right now to the federal building downtown, which is ringed by police and National Guard troops. That's what you're looking at. About 300 Guard members are now deployed to the city, according to Governor Newsom's office, with 1,600 more nearby awaiting orders. Our reporters there, and you can see it a little bit in these pictures, say that there are two lines of law enforcement the National Guard they're outside the building.
There was a brief flare up when an empty water bottle was thrown nearby, and those troops moved a little bit forward. But other than that, this is what it has looked like now for the better part of about 90 minutes.
Just before air time, the governor said he has been informed that another -- an additional 2,000 National Guard troops coming in. That brings the total Guard complement to about 4,000. They were federalized over the weekend by President Trump, over the Governor's objections.
And though there have been no major incidents today, that was not the case over the weekend, which saw protesters clash with police. Some launched commercial grade fireworks at officers and officers used flashbangs, tear gas and non-lethal projectiles to disperse the crowds.
Others, perhaps in a sign of the times, hailed self-driving Waymos then set them on fire when they came. Now, much of the protest centered on the Metropolitan Detention Center, the 101 Freeway in the city of Paramount, which is about ten miles away. That said, for all the attention this is getting, it only affects a sliver of the enormous city area. And it's a far, far cry from the kind of mass violence which swept the area during the 1992 riots.
Governor Newsom did not request the Guard presence, yet the President, as we said, sort of overruled him the first time that any President has done that since 1965, and something he made a point of not doing back in response to the Black Lives Matter disturbances during his first term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have to go by the laws. We can't move in the National Guard. I can call insurrection, but there's no reason to ever do that. Even in a Portland case, we can't call in the National Guard unless were requested by a Governor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So that was then. Today, it is different in both deeds and words. Governor Newsom called out the President's border czar, Tom Homan daring Homan, to arrest him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Come after me. Arrest me, let's just get it over with, tough guy. You know, I don't give a damn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: The President was asked about this, this afternoon, and this is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I would do it if I were Tom. I think it's great. Gavin likes the publicity, but I think it would be a great thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, a short time later, he was asked what the charge would actually be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The crime, that he committed?
REPORTER: Yes to warrant his arrest, as you expected earlier.
TRUMP: I think his primary crime is running for Governor because he's done such a bad job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Now, you might call that a sarcastic answer about what would appear, at least for now, to be an outlandish scenario. Then again, there's a lot about this that is out of the ordinary from the federalizing the Guard, to the open ended nature of the orders, which are not just limited to L.A. to sending in 700 Marines, which tonight Governor Newsom tweeted, were being deployed now, in his words, "To fulfill the deranged fantasy of a dictatorial President."
Let's start with the Marines. Let's go to CNN's Natasha Bertrand in Washington. Natasha, what is the reasoning behind mobilizing these 700 Marines to Los Angeles? And what exactly will they be doing?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Secretary of Defense Hegseth, he has tweeted about this now or posted on X, I should say and he said the reason why these Marines are being deployed is to, "restore order" because of threats in L.A. to federal law enforcement, as well as to federal buildings.
Essentially, what they'll be doing is augmenting the National Guard forces that are already on the ground, but it's still unclear what exactly their task is going to be, because while about 2,000 and now 4,000, if Governor Newsom is to be believe National Guard troops have been deployed or activated, I should say to Los Angeles, only about 300 have actually been operating on the ground there, and the rest don't currently have orders, simply because it doesn't seem as though they need the additional national guard presence there on the ground.
[20:05:36]
So, what are these additional hundreds of Marines going to be doing that is still unclear. Also, the rules of engagement, whether or not they can use any force against people when they're trying to protect, for example, federal personnel or federal buildings. That is still being determined by the Department of Defense lawyers.
And so, at this point, unless President Trump invokes the Insurrection Act, which would allow these troops to act in a law enforcement capacity, they're going to be extremely limited in what they can do on the ground there -- John.
BERMAN: How will they coordinate with local authorities -- these Marines?
BERTRAND: Yes, so, U.S. northern command, they released a statement earlier today, and they said that these Marines are going to be seamlessly integrated into the operations on the ground there. But it's also worth noting that the Los Angeles Police Chief, he actually recently called for open and continuous lines of communication between all the agencies responding ahead of the deployment of the Marines, because obviously they want to avoid any kind of escalation or misunderstandings.
And he said that seamless communication here is really, really key because otherwise there could be escalation and they want to ensure a coordinated, lawful and orderly response during this critical time -- John.
BERMAN: All right, Natasha Bertrand, for us in Washington, understanding what the Marines are up to. Forgive me my eyes keep darting downward. Here I am looking at the monitor, trying to watch these live images coming back from Los Angeles to understand what's happening on the ground there.
We are waiting to hear from the mayor and the police chief. Let's get to the ground. Let's get to CNN's Jason Carroll outside the federal building in downtown Los Angeles.
Jason, what are you seeing?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we've been down here, John, for the past few hours with this group of protesters, about several hundred of them, some of them right up against the wall here, just a few feet away from where the National Guard has stationed themselves outside of this building. Some of them are here, a number of them across the street, standing here waiting. This is somewhat of a standoff now between these demonstrators that we've seen out here for the past several hours and law enforcement.
Law enforcement clearly does not want to see a repeat of what they saw over the weekend, John. The protesters that we've been speaking to throughout the day say they are going to remain out here on the streets until federal policy starts to change.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice over): A peaceful scene Monday afternoon after a weekend of violence. Protesters gathered in downtown Los Angeles in support of union leader, David Huerta, one of dozens arrested during an immigration raid on Friday. Huerta, accused of trying to block federal agents from accessing a worksite, an allegation the union denies.
ARACELI MARTINEZ, DEMONSTRATOR: We oppose strongly the violations of the rights of all people, not just the immigrants, but all of us. Americans are being affected by this because they come for them and we are all next.
CARROLL (voice over): Downtown L.A., heavily guarded, has been declared an unlawful assembly area.
Over the weekend, hundreds of protesters clashed with local law enforcement and the National Guard after ICE raids at the fashion district and a Home Depot near downtown Los Angeles.
Cars set on fire, temporary shutdown of the busy 101 Freeway and a massive police response. And this moment, where a reporter was shot by a rubber bullet. L.A. Mayor Karen Bass told CNN, deploying the National Guard was unwarranted.
MAYOR KAREN BASS (D) LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: It's an escalation that didn't have to happen. Why were there raids? You know, we had been told that he was going to go after violent criminals. It wasn't a drug den, it was a Home Depot. And you add on to that the National Guard and it felt like fuel for a fire that was unnecessary.
CARROLL (VOICE OVER): And California's governor took to X, writing, "We are suing Donald Trump. The illegal order he signed could allow him to send the military into any state he wishes. This is an unmistakable step towards authoritarianism that threatens the foundation of our Republic. We cannot let it stand."
ROB BONTA, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CALIFORNIA: In order that abuse the federal government's authority and violated the 10th Amendment and federal law, an order that skipped over multiple rational, common sense, strategic steps that should have been deployed to quell unrest and prevent escalation.
CARROLL (voice over): The immigrant community of Los Angeles also has this message for President Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are part of that immigrant community that has made L.A. great, that has made the state of California the fourth largest economy on the world today.
So, we have a message for President Donald Trump. Get the National Guardsmen out of here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[20:10:28]
BERMAN: Jason Carroll, back with us. And, Jason, you've been out there all afternoon, Los Angeles, time into the evening, our time. Can you describe what the interaction has been at those contact points between the crowd, between the protesters and law enforcement?
CARROLL: And we should say, close contact points, just like what we've been seeing out here just a few feet away. And based on what I've seen so far, I can say when we've been watching the National Guard just a few minutes ago, for example, you can see them lined up still out here. Someone threw some sort of a projectile at them. How did they respond? They responded with restraint. And that's what we've been seeing out here all day long.
I mean, a number of these protesters, as you can imagine, have been shouting profanities at some of the National Guardsmen and members of the LAPD. In addition to that, at certain times, getting very close to them. Clearly, some of the people out here trying to antagonize members of law enforcement. At this point, law enforcement using restraint, holding their line and being very much in control of what they're seeing out here.
Now, having said that, the worry is not for what happens really so much now. I mean, you may have a few bad apples in the group who do something like throw a projectile. The worry, John, is what happens when the sun goes down. That is oftentimes where you see many of these bad actors coming out and confronting law enforcement. But for now and throughout the day, in terms of what we have seen, the word would be restraint -- John.
BERMAN: Again, things can change very, very quickly there. Jason Carroll, you and your team stay safe. Thank you very much.
For more on this, I want to bring in our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, who once served as the LAPD's counterterror chief. Also, CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe, the former deputy director of the FBI. John, let me start with you. The LAPD just announced they've declared a tactical alert. What exactly does that mean?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Tactical alert is when the LAPD, which is just over 8,000 police officers in the nation's second largest city, is when they surge hundreds of officers to handle a specific problem, in this case, the demonstrations.
What that means is that the city under tactical alert, routine police calls will not be answered. Burglar alarms will not be responded to. People who, you know, have stolen property. Nothing but crimes in progress or life threatening situations because they have basically stripped many of the area commands of so many cops to go handle this.
So, that's what tactical alert is and it also means that nobody goes home at the end of your shift unless you're told your shift is over, you continue into overtime, which gives them a chance to run two shifts at once.
BERMAN: They're bracing for something, for the concern that something could go on much larger than we've seen so far. And also when you say 8,000 in the city, in the country's second largest city, you've told me in the past that's actually compared to New York City, that's a low number, yes?
MILLER: So let's think about it. New York City has twice the population, but it has 38 to 32,000 cops, depending on what period you're in. L.A.'s budgeted for 10,000, but they're down to 8,300. So that means if their population is half the size and their geographic spaces a third larger than New York City, but they only have a third or less than a third of the police, they're going to be stretched thin.
And, you know, they're surging this, but they're going to need help. They're going to need the California Highway Patrol, they're going to need the L.A. County Sheriff. It just depends what happens going into this evening.
BERMAN: Well, let's talk about, Andrew McCabe. Some of the help that they have not asked for city officials or state officials yet and that would be the Marines right now, a battalion of Marines not there yet, but headed there. And this would be the first time since 1992 that we've seen Marines who are active duty troops on the streets of Los Angeles.
What do you think their presence will lead to? What difference will it make? What concerns might you have?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, John, it's hard to think of a lot of scenarios in which this is a great addition to a very volatile situation. First of all, let's talk about the resources they currently have. John, spoke in detail about the 8,000-plus sworn officers in the LAPD. When you add in L.A. County Sheriffs, that's another 10,000 sworn officers right there in the same area. Then you talk about CHPB and State Police, other entities that all engage in mutual aid agreements with each other, specifically for instances like this, when there's a massive draw of personnel, those other agencies can come in to cover some of the routine patrol matters around the city of L.A., or to help out in areas where you're having large crowds gathering in protest activity.
So, there are resources there that are trained for this sort of work that have gone through academies where they've studied how to do it that train for it regularly, that have the right equipment, that understand the rules of engagement. They have established, command authority that people who are sent out to do this work, even though it doesn't happen every day, they know who they're reporting to and what they're supposed to do.
[20:15:53]
Now, let's talk about the Marines. The Marines don't train for this. They are not a crowd control force. They don't typically -- they don't get deployed around anywhere in the United States with any sort of regularity. Marines are highly skilled, trained force to go out and win wars and that is exactly what we're trying not to happen here, right? We'd like to see this situation de-escalate to these hot points, cool off to avoid the sort of conflict that everyone is concerned with.
So, this is one that were going to have to watch very closely to see exactly how and where they deploy that force of Marines.
BERMAN: All right, the Marines are not there yet. The National Guard, about 300 there. The initial deployment was scheduled to be 2,000. The Governor now says he's been told an additional 2,000, which would make it 4,000 there, John. What would they do? Will their presence be helpful or again, what potential would there be for it to inflame the situation?
MILLER: Well, so let's look at the parameters of the problem that they're facing. The National Guard's mission, as stated by the border czar Homan and others, is to protect federal property. So, you've got the Roybal Federal Building downtown. You have the federal court, which is part and parcel of that. You have the federal jail which is attached to it and facing out the backside of that.
So, there's a significant federal complex downtown, which is going to be the target of these protests, miles away, far on the other side in West L.A., you have the federal building, which is a big skyscraper with every federal agency under the sun located there way back from the sidewalk but another property, which it would take a lot to put a perimeter and secure that.
So, there is some rationale that they -- if you're going to break this up into multiple shifts, 24 hours a day, perimeter control and so on, a possible use for more. But there's also another question here, right? Which is what is the specific -- this is the chicken and egg question, right? What is the irritant that is fueling these protests? Was it just the raids where you had a small protest outside the jail, or was it then the presence of the National Guard, which seemed to bring a much larger protest?
And by adding more to that and then doubling down with the possibility of U.S. Marines is the response we are seeing from the White House and the federal government really egging on the idea that we are going to exercise a level of authority and a show of force, if not a use of force, that is going to bring us closer and closer to the potential need to activate the Insurrection Act and have our Marines in the streets of L.A. who are active duty military, not National Guard, not requested by the Governor, not asked for by the Mayor, not needed by the police, and that's the issue swirling around the outer perimeter of this.
BERMAN: John Miller, Andrew McCabe, don't go too far. Thank you for helping explain what we are seeing.
Now, you're looking at live pictures again from the streets outside one of those federal buildings in downtown Los Angeles. This is what it has looked like on and off for the last few hours here with these law enforcement forces and these protesters who have been basically in something of a staring contest with not much direct physical contact at all over the last several hours, but certainly an air of tension.
Now, with us now is former federal prosecutor, CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig. Elie, there's a lawsuit now.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
BERMAN: From Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California, against the Trump administration for the deployment of this National Guard. You ran on the set a few minutes ago with it in your hand saying, I've read it, I've read it. What does it say?
HONIG: So, lawsuit just dropped. So, let me lay this out. The law that the Trump administration is using to deploy the National Guard says this. It says, the President has the power to deploy the National Guard to a state in any of three circumstances. First of all, if there's an invasion or a danger of invasion, that's not in play here.
Second of all, if there's a rebellion or danger of rebellion, Trump did cite that in his order. And then third, a sort of catch all. If the President is unable, with regular forces, to execute the laws of the United States. Trump cited that as well. The catch and this is what California, in their lawsuit really seizes on. There's language at the end that says orders for these purposes, deploying the National Guard shall be issued through the governors of the state.
So, the main argument California makes in this lawsuit is -- well, this was not issued through the governor, through Gavin Newsom. This was Donald Trump directly to the National Guard.
Now, I can tell you what the response is going to be. We haven't seen it yet, but the Trump administration is going to say that's just a technicality. It's really the Presidents call and there's no way this law intends to say that the Governor can essentially override or cancel the President's order.
[20:20:42]
And I'll tell you what the answer is. The answer is we don't know, because this particular statute is only ever been invoked one prior time in American history. There have been other incidents of the Insurrection Act. That's not what we're talking about here. This specific lawsuit was only invoked once. It was in 1970, and it involved a Postal Workers strike where Richard Nixon deputized the National Guard to deliver the mail. So a very different scenario that one didn't even go to the court. So we are really in unknown territory here.
BERMAN: Everyone keeps on saying the Insurrection Act here, the Insurrection Act that isn't being used, but it is out there as this concept. And our Paula Reid, a senior legal reporter down in Washington, has got some reporting that there's been some discussions inside the administration of ways not to use it, trying to get around using it. What would make them not want to go to that extreme?
HONIG: Well, it's so precipitous and the key concept to understand here with the Insurrection Act, there is a wall, a very important wall in our democracy between the military, on the one hand, and civilian law enforcement cops, on the other hand. The Insurrection Act, if invoked, would essentially take that wall down and allow the military to perform law enforcement functions.
Now, that is a very -- it's actually a set of different laws. It gives the President, again, pretty broad authority if the laws are being interfered with. Again, if there's an insurrection or rebellion, but Trump has not yet invoked that. But there definitely is fear that that could be a next step, and that would be a much more precipitous move.
MILLER: And I think one of the factors there is when you listen to the statements being made by the President out of the White House on the on the X tweets that are coming out, where they keep invoking the word insurrection, rebellion. They're quoting words from the 1807 law. So, you know, there is this idea that they are foreshadowing, which is, as Elie points out, completely unstated but it's been repeated.
BERMAN: Yes, don't go far. John Miller, Elie Honig, please stand by. We're going to take a quick break. Again, we're waiting for a news conference from Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass and the Police Chief Jim McDonnell. We don't know what it's about. We don't know if they're going to make some kind of announcement, but we will hear from them shortly.
As we wait for that, also, I should say, you know, there's obviously politics swirling all around this. We'll talk about that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:27]
BERMAN: All right, we are standing by to hear from Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass, as well as the Los Angeles Police Chief. While we wait, we have new pictures just in of Marines in Twentynine Palms, California, preparing for duty on the streets of Los Angeles, 700 have been mobilized. They are being deployed to the city, this is them getting ready. And the President is amping up the rhetoric again late today online, repeating his threat from over the weekend to anyone who as much as spits on police officers. If they spit, he says we will hit -- adding and I promise you, they will be hit harder than they've ever been hit before.
Let's get to Kaitlan Collins, chief White House correspondent, anchor of "The Source." Kaitlan, what are your sources telling you that President Trump is currently thinking about all of this, as I'm sure he is watching along with the rest of us?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, John, they've been watching all of this very closely at the White House. They're having constant meetings, whether that's in the Situation Room or on the phone, about what exactly this is looking like. And that is what led to that decision tonight that we saw being now confirmed, first announced by Governor Newsom but confirmed by the Pentagon, that they are mobilizing 2,000 more members of the California National Guard.
It's not clear, because we've heard from a lot of state officials there saying that the most of the members that they mobilized before hadn't actually been deployed, only a few hundred had and so, it wasn't really clear what all they were doing.
What officials have argued is that they need to be on standby as they're watching all of this develop throughout the evening, John, and seeing what that looks like. And so, there have been a lot of conversations about this inside the White House over what this looks like. But I think what is most striking to me, John, is just, you know, someone who covered round one of President Trump and how there were moments in his first term where there were large protests that broke out in cities, similar to the scenes that you're seeing playing out right now. And the President was often talked out of trying to deploy the National Guard. He often would call on governors publicly to do so, would criticize them if they weren't. But he would acknowledge limits to where he could not essentially bypass governors here. They have changed that this time around, and they've changed, obviously, the legal reasoning for that. That's prompted the lawsuit from the state of California. But that is a large a large part of the reason in what you're seeing in the differences in the response here compared to what that response looked like the last time he was in office, John.
And I should note, there are officials on the ground in California for President Trump, including his border czar, Tom Homan as these ICE raids and the workplace arrests that have been going on were part of this and of course, why we are seeing the images that we are seeing now.
BERMAN: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much. I should say, at the top of the hour, Kaitlan is going to speak with border czar, Tom Homan about all of this and about his comments about the California Governor, Gavin Newsom and L.A. Mayor Karen Bass.
Let's get perspective now from Semafor's White House Correspondent Shelby Talcott and CNN chief political analyst David Axelrod, a former senior adviser to President Obama. And David, let me start with you, because as Kaitlan outlines it, there's an eagerness here from inside the White House to engage not just on this issue, but to engage potentially on the ground as well.
There's clearly an eagerness among the protesters who've been out on the streets, in some cases being violent, at least over the weekend. So, where does that leave from a political standpoint, Gavin Newsom and Karen Bass? What are the perils for them as they try to navigate this?
[20:30:43]
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, well, the perils are to, in any way, appear to be excusing violence of any kind on the streets. And I think that you'll probably hear them discourage that. So you don't, I mean, look, let me reverse the question, John, not to take your anchor chair away from you, but look at it from the White House's standpoint. What Kaitlan wasn't saying, but what she knows is they like this story.
This is a story that fits their narrative that, you know, Stephen Miller said today or yesterday, it was quoted today, that this was a battle to save civilization. You know, that is obviously hyperbole, but that is the impression that they want to give. And that's the impression the President is giving with his comments all day and with what you just -- what you just reported.
So that's the backdrop against which these leaders have to respond. The fact is, most of L.A. is not under siege. This is not comparable to some of the other things that we have seen in recent years. And as John Miller said, it really began with the raids and escalated greatly after the President announced that he was sending in the National Guard. And the protests were provoked in no small measure by that announcement.
I think that they are -- this is a reality show that they are creating, and I think they like what they see. And so that's what the mayor and the governor have to face. Now, I will say this. I think the governor himself, who has a flair for improvisation and, you know, is good at it, is not shying away from the opportunity to be the guy who's standing up to the tough guys and saying, not in my state.
And he will benefit from that, I imagine, among Californians, but also perhaps among Democrats around the country who he is, to whom he's trying to appeal. But keeping the temperature down, to me, would be the priority. If I were the mayor and the governor, you can express your feelings about what the President has done.
But you also have to very much say to people, don't escalate this. Don't play into the hands of those who would like to see it escalate. Let's proceed and use the tools we have to respond.
BERMAN: Again, you're looking at live pictures from the ground right now. Outside, one building or building complex in downtown L.A. And this is police and protesters who are now, well, they weren't separated by very much there. And you can see the police retaking some ground there, moving down. OK. We're now told that there were some tossing of water bottles at those law enforcement officers. You can see a little bit of that right there.
Shelby, you know, David did ask a good question and there's plenty of room on this seat for good questions, David. I do appreciate that. And you've got reporting, Shelby, that the White House does -- OK. Hang on one second. There was just a firing right there of what appeared to be one of those rubber bullets. Let's pause. Let's listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, police responding rubber bullets.
BERMAN: Those are rubber bullets being fired by police there. You're getting two different angles of it, but you can see clearly some of the space that had been between them is now gone as water bottles were being thrown and more of it right there. And police not wanting to allow, I think, any escalation. We'll keep our eye on that as it develops.
Shelby, to David's point that the White House does like what they are seeing right now, what's your reporting on that?
SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Well, they think it's a winning argument. Remember, you know, I covered Donald Trump on the campaign trail over the last two years. And two things he talked about that the administration now feels was part of the reason that he won the 2024 election is immigration and law and order.
[20:35:04]
And we've heard those two terms used in this -- in this situation often by Trump over the last few days. They feel like if they can keep the focus on immigration and law and order, that this is a winning argument for them. So they're not only, you know, OK with sort of having this fight, I think that they're in many ways eager to have this fight.
And I think the ultimate question, to Kaitlan's point earlier, is where does this all end? What is the end game? And the difference, as Kaitlan alluded to, to this administration compared to the last administration is there's nobody really around Donald Trump who will sort of push back on him in this regard. They are all working in lockstep.
And we talked to a bunch of congressional Republicans earlier today, my colleague, and that is the sense on the Hill, too. They're giving him a wide range, a wide leeway to -- to do this. And there's really no pushback. And so the question is, how does this ultimately end?
BERMAN: You know, David, to that -- to your point, though, if you have a White House that's eager to escalate, hang on, David, I'll come back to you in one second. Let's go to the ground. Jason Carroll is on the ground. Let's hear what's happening, Jason. Go ahead, Jason. Tell us what you're seeing.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, just a few moments ago, John, what we saw was some of these bad actors that we were talking about earlier, throwing projectiles, throwing water bottles at the line of LAPD officers that you see here on Los Angeles Street, just a block away from the Metropolitan -- from the side of the Metropolitan Detention Center where we were just about 20 minutes or so ago. Police started to move in.
You can see they're starting to throw more of these water bottles, more projectiles. Police at this point using flash bangs to try to keep some of these -- these bad actors away from their front line. Some of them coming in, some of these demonstrators coming in just a few moments ago and saying, stop throwing projectiles, stop throwing projectiles.
Well, that has not deterred some of these people here in the crowd from trying to get these officers to engage with them. Again, continuing to throw water bottles, projectiles at this line of officers who are using these flash bangs to try to keep some of these -- these demonstrators away from them. This is what we've been seeing for the last few minutes or so ago.
And I should tell you, even before this started to get, before this -- when it started to happen, we heard them issue this warning saying we will use less than lethal force if you don't stop throwing projectiles. So the warning was there. The projectiles kept coming. They continue to come. As you're watching this unfold right now here at the corner of the Temple Street at Los Angeles, as these -- these demonstrators are engaging with these --
BERMAN: Yes.
CARROLL: -- with these LAPD officers here in front of the Metropolitan Detention Center. All right, Jason, see what else you can find out. We're going to go to Erin Burnett, anchor of Erin Burnett Outfront, who's also there. Erin, go ahead. What are you seeing? ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OK. All right. So you can see behind me these officers that are just pushing us back. All these California National Guard just came up behind us. They're trying to push this whole crowd back here. So I'm right here along the edge, as you can see, this line of police. And there have been projectiles thrown at them.
Sorry. You hear -- you hear those flash bangs. And then the line pauses. There does seem to be some uncertainty among police, too, that they sort of step back. The whole National Guard had just come running down there. So I think you can see all of this, John, as they're pushing people back.
They're also trying to push some people here into the park to clear this crowd. But this entire crowd that we're standing in here, we're going to pan over and show you. Obviously, there's plenty of press like ourselves right here along the line.
All were up there along the corner, and now have all been pushed back. So, John, now there's a pause and a standoff. Then we'll suddenly hear a bottle thrown. There'll be some sort of a flash bang. And then all of a sudden, there's a rush, and the mood of the crowd changes completely. But you can see the number of National Guard, John.
When -- when I was out here about an hour ago, I would say there were about 30 of them. There are probably about double that right now. When you look at National Guard, there's a California National Guard, as well as Customs and Border Patrol Police. Now it's all paused. So let's just, I guess, pan over here if you can.
All right. So we're just going to try to come in here so you can see the standoff right down this line of people yelling. John, do you see this? They're yelling and taunting. And this is the line right here between law enforcement and the people here on the street in California.
You see those clubs, batons. But right now, the weapons are not pointed at people, although we have seen that. When there's a bottle thrown or something, all of a sudden, they point towards, and there will be pepper balls.
[20:39:59]
There's a lot of people running up there, as you can see now from law enforcement. So you'll see pepper balls. You'll see rubber guns. But right now, these officers here, you see all the clubs ready. And this front line, essentially, between citizens and between law enforcement, Los Angeles police, a lot of these, but it's a mix, John. We're seeing highway patrol. We see Los Angeles Police.
Now they're yelling, move. Sorry. All right. We're just get out of the shot here John.
BERMAN: Erin, is it in terms of the law enforcement that is firing the pepper balls or rubber bullets and directly engaged with the protesters? BURNETT: Yes.
BERMAN: Are they either Los Angeles City Police, county police, highway patrol, but not the National Guard at this moment?
BURNETT: The ones right now that I am walking, and actually one of them just had his hand on my back, sort of pushing me away. These are Los Angeles City Police, Los Angeles County Police and highway patrol that I've seen so far.
OK. And then actually, if you, here, turn around -- if you turn around here, then over here, all right, you see this going on right here and behind that National Guard. So these that you see here, John, if we're looking, these are California National Guard that have been deployed by the President.
Then you see California highway patrol. So it really is a mix right now of what we see. Los Angeles Police right next to them, if you can see what I'm looking at here, as well as Customs and Border Patrol police officers. There are a lot of those as well.
You hear those flashbangs and then they try to make us move back. Sorry, I just want to. All right. Well, you heard that, John, that was a little bit over from where we are right here. We're just moving steadily back along this line. Sorry.
BERMAN: Is it clear where they're being moved to?
BURNETT: OK. You can see those flashbangs. There's a lot of smoke coming up from those, which you can see over there. It seems right now, water bottles in the air. So these water bottles are being launched by citizens here over at the police.
It appears that they're being moved to a park over where you can see some of the smoke from the flashbangs. And all of those bottles, I don't know if we're able to catch them here. We're -- we're trying to show you are being launched towards law enforcement.
Now you see there's a pair of law enforcement who are running down. I don't know if they're going to fire their rubber bullets or not right behind those, the Mexican American flag that we can see here. Something up in that park. I don't know if Jason or Kyung happen to be up there and can get a better view than we can see right now.
And we just keep moving steadily back here, John.
BERMAN: Keep moving steadily back, yes.
BERMAN: They're trying to clear this entire area in front of the federal building. Yes, which you can see, and they have moved us off of the front of that building pretty successfully, this whole crowd. There is also -- there are armored vehicles and there is a fleet of police.
BERMAN: Erin, Erin, Erin, hang on one second if you can. We're going to go to Jason Carroll's got a different vantage point. Jason, what are you seeing right now?
CARROLL: Well, John, this is the park that Erin was talking about right here where you saw some of that unrest going on. And I want you to take a look right over here down Los Angeles Street. This is where the National Guard is starting to move in that line that we told you about earlier, right behind me here, still holding itself.
This is where we've seen a lot of these projectiles coming towards these officers. And then right up in this direction here, where you see those officers lined up there in that park, that is where we saw a lot of the unrest, a lot of the flashbang activity going on.
That is what Erin, I think was referring to. And then once again, the National Guard at this point, still on the street, not engaging what we've seen so far engaging are -- are members of the LAPD for the most part, engaging with some of these protesters out here, these demonstrators who have started to throw projectiles, water bottles and other types of projectiles at these officers, the officers responding with flashbangs.
You can see some of them have started to move in in this direction here in the front line, members of the Air National Guard standing behind at this point. And so it looks like for now, they're holding the situation. But that is the -- that is what Erin was referring to when she saw or heard those loud noises coming from the park.
This is the park. This is where the -- where the LAPD has begun to immediately move in and address those bad actors trying to find out who they are, who started all of this. But again, you've got members of the LAPD in the front. And then standing behind, if we can show one more time, you see all those members of the Air National Guard lining up on the street in a truck, ready to move on -- ready to move in when given the right command.
[20:44:54]
BERMAN: All right, Jason, stand by for just one minute, Erin Burnett as well. Obviously, there is a news conference happening now with the Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass and the Los Angeles police chief. We're monitoring that. But we're going to stay on this situation on the ground as it develops. John Miller is with me, and I think he can explain a little bit of why we're seeing what we're seeing and what these, right now, Los Angeles law enforcement is doing directly with the protesters.
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So what we saw was once they started taking what we used to refer to in police parlance as airmail, projectiles coming from the back of the crowd towards law enforcement, that's what causes them to step forward. And then you've got waves.
So, you know, the police move forward to engage who's ever behind throwing these things. That makes the federal law enforcement people on the front line of that federal building move forward to engage if necessary. And the National Guard, which is that third layer back, has stepped forward. So each layer has moved up. What that has done is that has given the police an opportunity to form those loose skirmish lines and start to push the crowd back because of the impetus of whatever was being thrown, whatever disorder had started. And that gives them a chance to clear that block. So if you move one crowd to the other corner, the other crowd to this corner, if you're able to guide them into that park, what you do now is you create a frozen zone in front of the federal building where you don't have to deal with this face-off, this standoff between protesters and the National Guard, which their presence is one of the objects of -- of their ire in this protest and gives them a little space.
Now, when -- when you hear these things going off, what did you see there? You see the FN 303, which will fire. That's a less than lethal round. It's the big green thing that those cops had. That'll fire either a pepper ball. You can shoot that into the street and have it break there and have the pepper gas go up. You don't fire it at people generally or that 40 millimeter, what they call a sponge round, which is that rubber bullet. And that's part of what they used when they were getting stuff thrown at them to drive that crowd back.
BERMAN: All right. So that is what we have seen right now, that crowd driven back a little bit from the building. And now the line's fairly stable. Let's get to Kyung Lah, who's also on the ground there at the scene. Tell us where you are, Kyung, and what you're seeing.
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we slid behind the police line because I could actually hear them announcing the tactical move, that essentially they were going to push everybody and clear the street and try to create a bottleneck to force them out into only one area. And so that green gun that John was talking about, you can see that being held by this LAPD officer. And you -- John was talking about the wave of law enforcement.
This is the LAPD. And then, Mike, walk over with me this way. I'm going to show you what lies on the other side, if there is a problem necessary. You can see multiple vehicles of it looks like the sheriff's department. Yes, it's the sheriff's department. And you can see that they have these vehicles that are equipped to deal with crowds. They are heavily armored. They understand with the armored vehicles that this is their next wave.
I'm going to walk you over just a little bit further this way, where I was throughout the day. That's now cleared. And now we have the National Guard, the sheriff's department, all lined up in front of the federal building. That entrance is gone. The -- they're actually asking us to clear over to this way. So we're going to walk over here. And then this line of LAPD, having successfully pushed the crowd all the way into this corner.
And so that's what the goal was here, is to try to safely push the people who were, you know, it was getting -- it was really getting quite tense over on those steps that people were, you know, one bottle thrown, one mistake by the crowd. And then you have the military and law enforcement forced to respond and still try to protect the building. So by removing the people who were being pushed, that tension, they've now pushed everybody over here and they're hoping to clear this out before nightfall.
BERMAN: All right, Kyung, stand by for a minute. We'll go back to Erin Burnett. And Erin, Kyung brings up that word, nightfall. All of this is happening during the day, Los Angeles time, daylight hours. There has to be concern about what happens after dark there. And while they've removed people from just outside the building, they've only moved them to another location.
BURNETT: Yes, that's exactly right, John. And just listening to John Miller explain it, it is exactly what we're seeing, right? I use the word here. It feels as if they've got several front lines. You have the line behind me. All right, that goes all the way here. The federal building's back here. So then you can see in the distance, all of the National Guard and then that line.
[20:49:59]
So they've essentially cordoned this off, moving this whole crowd away from that building to where we are. Now, they were trying to push a lot of people into the park. And now they're trying -- they're really just trying to gather people it feels like in a smaller and smaller space and then trying to push them out because it -- what they want is they want everybody out of here by dark. They want everyone out of here by dark.
Now, we've seen plastic bottles being thrown. In the past few minutes though, where we were, there were some glass bottles that were thrown very close to where we were that shattered. So, you know, there are some who want to stir it up. That's the reality. Most people don't. Most people are here peacefully. There obviously are a lot of media here as well, chronicling all of this.
And back in the distance, I don't know if we could just turn around here, Orlando. OK, if we turn around and look all the way down this street here, this is Temple. So if you go back down here, you can see some of the crowd that they've been able to push back there through that park.
But right now it's quiet and then just going to die and turn if something gets thrown airborne, as John Miller was just describing it to you, and then all of a sudden it escalates. And they wait a few minutes and then all of a sudden they start moving. They have a lot of vehicles behind them, these police lines as well, and then that pushes people. But it -- it's hitting dusk. They want everyone out of here by dark, John, and I would say that's the bottom line.
So in these next 15 minutes to 30 minutes, you're going to see all of that actually play out and go down. I see some people even here put on their gas masks in anticipation of what they think could happen. But, you know, I think that just speaks to the situation that it is. We have gas masks with us, of course, that it's uncertain and it's tense and it changes in an instant. BERMAN: All right, stand by for a second. Erin, Kyung Lah, Jason Carroll, all of you from the scene there watching this unfold right before our eyes. The crowd pushed away from the building. Now -- now some in a park. This very, very tense moment we are witnessing. We're going to take a quick break. Much more from the streets of downtown Los Angeles when 360 continues.
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[20:56:27]
BERMAN: All right, evening is approaching in Los Angeles. In just the last few minutes, we've seen protesters pushed back from the L.A. federal building by police using non-lethal rounds, also, pepper balls. There's some flashbangs. The concern, of course, is about what happens when the sun sets.
A total of 4,000 National Guard troops are now being sent into the city. Only 300 or so on the ground so far that we know of yet, although that number could have grown over the last several hours, 700 Marines on the way. This is all over, at least so far, the governor's objections.
Let's get back to the ground, though, to figure out exactly what's happening. We see more stable lines of law enforcement. No movement currently. Kyung Lah is there. What are you seeing from your vantage point, Kyung?
LAH: Well, we're behind the police line. These officers, this is LAPD, have pushed the entire block of protesters that was previously where you see that long line of National Guard. There was a face-off for hours there as angry protesters and demonstrators were, you know, facing off, yelling at law enforcement and the military there.
I'm going to have my photographer, Mike Love, swing over. You can see the sheriff's department now has moved in. They've brought in these vehicles and they are on, I think the second wave standby might be the best way to put it. But what the LAPD has done, and I'm going to walk you just over to this line, you can see this line of police officers.
We heard them explain over the radios that they were going to push the crowd down this street. And then if you can zoom in over there, Mike, can you see that -- that line of police officers there? What the LAPD has successfully done here is they have been able to ferry everyone into a certain pocket and try to push them to essentially go home and try to go home peacefully before nightfall. And so that -- that is what we are seeing.
BERMAN: Kyung, stand by for a moment. With us now is Kathryn Barger, chair of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors. Chair, thank you for being with us. I know you've been watching. What's your take on the situation on the ground?
KATHRYN BARGER, CHAIR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: Well, my take on the situation is it's obvious to me this is greater than ICE. This is a bunch of individuals who are taking on law enforcement. We've all said peaceful protest is everyone's right. But when you cross the line and you start attacking police, then you -- you've got to be arrested. And I hope it doesn't come to that.
LAPD has brought in additional resources. Obviously, having the National Guard and now possibly the Marines is going to -- is going to create a little more tension. But at the same time, I hope that the people that are there to peacefully protest will do so.
BERMAN: You said having the Guard and the Marines will create more tension. How does one then de-escalate the situation?
BARGER: Well, first of all, with the elected leaders not fanning the flames and asking and actually leading by example. And there's no question in my mind that there are words being thrown out there on both sides, both the federal and the state and the local level.
And the reality is, as leaders, we have to acknowledge that peaceful protest is a right. But at the same time, it doesn't give you the right to go and throw rocks at law enforcement or to take on the sheriffs. They were throwing rocks at the sheriff's deputies as well, you cross the line and peace -- that's not a peaceful protest.
[21:00:04]
BERMAN: Just about 20 seconds left, Chair. Any sign this has spread beyond that downtown area near the federal building in Los Angeles at this point?
BARGER: No, no. At this point, it is all centered around the federal buildings downtown, both where they have the jails as well as where they do processing.
BERMAN: All right. All right. Chair Kathryn Barger, we do appreciate your insight on all this. Thank you so much for your time. The news continues. The situation continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts right now.
