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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Protests Over ICE Raids in Multiple U.S. Cities; Entering 6th Night of Protests in Downtown LA, Curfew Hours Away; Interview with Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-MA); Governor Newsom Leading Resistance to Trump Agenda Amid Protests; Poll Shows 43 Percent Approve of President Trump's Handling of Immigration; U.S. Moving Some Personnel Out of Middle East Amid Heightened Security Concerns; Protest Over Ice Raids in Multiple U.S. Cities; GOP Sen. Rand Paul Says White House Engaging in Petty Vindictiveness. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired June 11, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: We've seen a few hundred protesters just moved by where we are, right now we're here, these National Guard switching on and off the National Guard outside the federal building, as we are monitoring the protests here. We've got about 200 arrests last night. We'll see what we see this evening as we are also watching protests grow across the country, from Raleigh, North Carolina to New York to other cities. We'll continue with our breaking news coverage just after this.

I'm Erin Burnett in Los Angeles and AC360 begins right now.

[20:00:30]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Good evening, John Berman here, in for Anderson. For a second straight night, parts of downtown Los Angeles will be under a curfew. It begins in three hours and again, would only affect a very small part of the city around a number of federal buildings. Yet again tonight, as he has consistently almost since the beginning, the President painted the situation with a very broad brush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm very proud to have helped Los Angeles survive. Los Angeles right now, if we didn't do what we did would be burning to the ground and that's not over yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's the President and the First Lady on their way into the Kennedy Center for a performance of "Les Mis," and it bears repeating, contrary to his depiction, even at its worst, the protests over ICE actions, now in their sixth day, have only affected a tiny part of the city and broader L.A. County and the curfew area is even smaller.

Last night, about 200 people were arrested for breaking the curfew and this evening, officials announced charges against five individuals accused of taking part in the worst of the recent violence and vandalism. But again today, like yesterday, things have been fairly restrained, which is not to say there haven't been significant developments, both in L.A. and across the country.

ICE raids continue in and around the city, with National Guard troops taking part. Their task force commander, Major General Scott Sherman, was asked about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Can you specify how many of the troops have been used so far on those ICE operations, and do you have any concerns about National Guard troops being pulled in with that kind of regular law enforcement?

MAJ. GEN. SCOTT SHERMAN, TASK FORCE COMMANDER: No. So, I'll answer that in two parts. First, I don't have the numbers that are on the ICE done -- the actual ICE operations. We have thousand that have done operations so far. That is both the protection of the installations of the federal buildings and then also protection of federal law enforcement as they conduct their mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, General Sherman did say that of the 4,000 Guard troops mobilized so far, about 2,000 are now on duty, 2000 will be ready for duty tomorrow, and 700 Marines are still training at nearby Seal Beach in tactics for dealing with civil unrest.

Meantime, ICE raids continued in Southern California and elsewhere. The agency today released this video, which we should point out they edited from a roundup yesterday at a meat packing plant in Omaha. Protests are planned for there tonight.

They're underway right now in Raleigh, North Carolina, with hundreds of people marching against ICE and new state legislation requiring state and local government agencies to cooperate with federal deportation efforts.

Also, here in New York, where in a possible repeat of the march here last night, protesters are back on the streets again, starting in Lower Manhattan and now very much on the move.

Texas Governor Greg Abbott, meantime, says he is deploying the National Guard himself ahead of marches planned there. But today in Washington, the focus was on California responding to Governor Gavin Newsom's attempt to restrain the Guard in court and raising the possibility of giving troops even more power if need be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Right now in California, we're at a good point. We're not scared to go further. We're not frightened to do something else if we need to.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: That's Attorney General Pam Bondi, when asked about invoking the Insurrection Act and she didn't rule it out. And this is the President this morning on his social network, using that word to describe protesters. He wrote: "The incompetent governor of California was unable to provide protection in a timely manner when our ICE officers, great patriots they are, were attacked by an out-of-control mob of agitators, troublemakers and/or insurrectionists."

Los Angeles Mayor and former U.S. Congresswoman Karen Bass had this response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR KAREN BASS (D) LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: I was there on January 6th and saw an insurrection take place. The idea that this what is happening here is an insurrection is just false and I think it is deliberately false. I don't think they're confused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Meantime, with preparation is in full swing now from the President's military parade this weekend and nationwide protests planned for it, there were new questions today about what the Washington response would be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: If there were peaceful protests on Saturday for the military parade, President Trump would allow that.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Of course, the President supports peaceful protests. What a stupid question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Keeping them honest. It's not such a stupid question, if only because of what the President himself said on the subject just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If there's any protester wants to come out, they will be met with very big force. By the way, for those people that want to protest, they're going to be met with very big force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[20:05:15]

BERMAN: That is the President yesterday saying nothing about peaceful or not peaceful, lawful or not merely that -- protests will be met by force.

And finally, as to the politics of all this, new polling from Quinnipiac University covering June fifth through ninth, in other words, some but not all of the unrest in Los Angeles, it shows the President's approval on his handling of immigration issues underwater by 11 points, with 54 percent disapproval, and on deportations the gap is even wider 16 points with 56 percent disapproval. That is the backdrop.

Let's go to the ground. CNN's Nick Watt, on the ground in downtown Los Angeles. Nick, what are you seeing?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, we're outside the detention center that has been the focus of the protests over the past few days. You can see protesters standing sort of facing off with the National Guard. That is the line between city sidewalk and federal property. Now, the National Guard has been here all day. The posture has changed a little. Earlier, they did not have these riot shields, they do now.

And you can see, Jerry, if you pan behind, you can see that graffiti back there. That is what the National Guard are essentially stopping. They are stopping people getting on federal land.

Outside, where I am now, is the LAPD and the Sheriff's Department are dealing with this area. And they, the flashpoints have been whenever a convoy of DHS or ICE comes in, that is when insults have been thrown.

So far, nothing physical thrown. It is getting towards dusk. The temperature definitely rising a little bit, John, but this is not as tense as it was yesterday, back to you.

BERMAN: All right, Nick Watt, thank you very much.

Let's go next to CNN Shimon Prokupecz. He is in Lower Manhattan, where for a second night, anti-ICE demonstrators are on the streets. Shimon, what are you seeing? What's going on around you?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So we started with really just a bunch of demonstrators gathered in Foley Square where they gathered last night. Then they decided just a few hundred of them to march from Foley Square to the other side of the federal building here in Lower Manhattan. And as they were marching and getting into the street, the police moved in and told them they had to get on the sidewalk. Several arrests were made.

We're kind of caught up in the crowd now, and so you may hear some language, and I apologize for that, but we are completely surrounded now by some of the demonstrators. I want to show sort of what we're facing here.

Right now, many of these demonstrators, this is the crew, the group that marched from Foley Square, which is just around the block from where we are into this street and into this area, John. And you can now see them on the other side. They're chanting, banging on that sign there.

What's happening here tonight is much different from what we saw early yesterday. The NYPD allowed the demonstrators to stay in the street, walk, march, and then they sort of just allowed them to do what they were doing. Tonight, we are seeing a much more aggressive posture from the NYPD. Almost immediately when the protesters started moving into the street, they moved in and started making arrests.

Now, one other point, John, what makes this area so significant, this is the roadway. This is an active driveway that federal officials use, including ICE teams that are either bringing detainees in or bringing them out to transport them. That is why this area has been such a flashpoint and why law enforcement has been so focused on this area, because they do not want the protesters preventing the vans that we have seen come through this roadway from coming in. And so, that is why we're seeing such a massive response here from the NYPD tonight.

BERMAN: Some points of tensions here in New York. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you very much. Also, in Los Angeles, we saw there with Nick Watt.

For more on President Trump's reaction to all of this, our chief White House correspondent and anchor of "The Source," Kaitlan Collins, is with us now. Kaitlan, what have you heard about President Trump's thinking on this tonight?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, obviously, John, they've been watching this incredibly closely. I heard from White House officials today talking about that curfew that Nick was mentioning. That's going to go back into effect in a few hours, saying that they believe steps like that, that they have taken are evidence that the White House was right when they said that they needed to have bigger and more enhanced measures put in place to try to help quell the protest and keep them under control that we've been seeing play out for the last six or so nights now.

The White House, though, John, you know, has not really been taking to any of the criticism over the President's bypassing the governor here and sending in the National Guard federalizing the National Guard.

I spoke to the White House earlier today during the briefing about this. It was the first press briefing that has happened since the protests have started in Los Angeles about what exactly the criteria are that the President is taking into consideration when he is federalizing the National Guard, because, as you can see from Shimon's live shot, this is not just happening in Los Angeles any longer.

[20:10:27]

We've seen this pop up in Dallas and Austin and Chicago as well. Obviously, the governor of Texas said he was deploying the National Guard himself. And so, it hasn't been totally clear what the standards are for the White House beyond that, they thought the officials in California were not essentially doing enough here when it comes to what this is looking like.

Now, obviously they're going to be in court tomorrow with officials from California who are suing them over that matter exactly. But there have been many questions facing the White House when it comes to not only the President bypassing the governor there to deploy them, but also what those members of the National Guard are doing on the ground, and also what those several hundred Marines are doing on the ground, and what exactly their rules of engagement are. BERMAN: Yes, an excellent question, no doubt. Kaitlan Collins, thank you very much. We will see you at the top of the hour.

Joining us now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, who once served as the LAPD's counter-terror chief. CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem, who once served as former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick's homeland security adviser, a role that included overseeing the National Guard. And with us as well, CNN legal analyst, Carrie Cordero.

John, I want to start with you. What's the significance of what we're seeing and not seeing tonight?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, in New York, they're doing what they normally do and we just saw that with Shimon, which is, they have enough police officers to surge to these things and manage it. They're not seeing looting or fireworks being shot at the cops. So, that's New York being New York. In L.A., what we're seeing is what they stepped up.

So, what we're not seeing so far, and we heard that from Nick Watt, is the kind of tangling and marching that they went through Sunday and Monday, and right now with the curfew, you know, going into effect at 8:00 in L.A. time, what you're going to see is what we saw last night, which is a countdown, a grace period and then those who haven't removed themselves will be removed.

So, they basically set the rules in these places.

BERMAN: You know, Juliette, we do seem to be seeing a bit of a decrease in the tension in Los Angeles -- in downtown Los Angeles proper, you know, the curfew and whatnot. And this could be something of a Rorschach test. On the one hand, the President flat out says and his supporters say, see, this just proves that sending in the National Guard was effective. The flip side of that is people in Los Angeles can say, see, we told you we could handle this. How do you see it?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, I mean, that narrative that's coming out of the White House is a win-win for them. But when you really look at the details, you see that they never really took this deployment seriously. As someone who has worked with the military, overseeing the National Guard, it is best served and it best serves the public when it is integrated and cooperative with local and state entities, rather than being federalized.

In fact, from the L.A. riots a couple of decades ago, the after actions all show that the federalized National Guard was less successful than the state National Guard. Why is that? Because they know what to do. They know their communities. They are part of the communities, and they work with state and locals all the time.

This deployment was without a coordination. It was without known command and control. It was without a mission statement. It did not have provisions for beds and sleeping for our military people, apparently, according to reporting today. Because it's not activated, they don't have access to salary and health care, which shift over to the federal government.

So, it's hard to take seriously, as the White House says, they want us to take the violence seriously when the deployment of the military was not -- was just, it did not treat the military well.

BERMAN: Carrie, the Justice Department, the President's Justice Department, filed a brief today responding to the California lawsuit. The DOJ is adamant, they say that the President is commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces, and that judicial branch should not try to strike down his deployments. Is it that simple?

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's not quite that simple in this case, because the President used a less common way of federalizing the National Guard in this case. So, the way that its occurred more in history would have been using the Insurrection Act, in this case he didn't do that, he used another provision of Title X to federalize the Guard. And so, California might have a plausible argument that some of the statute that they did use required the President to go through the governor.

Now, the Justice Department is arguing that that's not the case, that because they put the orders for the Guard through the adjutant general, that that will be sufficient. The bigger question, I think, John, is whether the courts will want to look behind a president -- any president's judgment in federalizing the National Guard. And I think that is a harder road for California, because courts generally are pretty deferential when it comes to National Security judgments made by a President.

BERMAN: Yes, the bar seems to be high for that.

So, John, you know, Kaitlan raised a really good question, which is we see the Guard in California, but we are seeing protests in New York and in Raleigh and in Chicago and in other places. Why no Guard there? Do you think that it may be tempting for the President to call in the guard in other places as well?

[20:15:43]

MILLER: Well, it is Mayor Karen Bass who said two days ago, we're in the midst of a grand test, meaning she feels the experiment is being carried off in L.A. I think the answer is yes and I'll tell you why.

From Tom Homan's standpoint, he is going to conduct aggressive immigration operations in all of those cities. And of those cities, the ones that are sanctuary cities where the police will not assist them in those operations, and given that they want to hit numbers like 3,000 a day, Tom Homan's attitude is, if the police won't go along on these teams and protect them, we will send the National Guard or the Marines, however, that works along with them into the field and provide that force protection and also protect those federal buildings and federal jails from demonstrators, graffiti, breaking windows and so on. I wouldn't consider it unlikely.

BERMAN: Yes, no, it certainly doesn't appear to be over just yet.

Juliette, now, if sending in the Guard is not the right move, what is it that the federal government should be doing on this?

KAYYEM: Well, I mean, sending in the State National Guard might be appropriate if you had lost control of the city or greater parts of the city, just to give you the statistics, as we were reporting, 0.2 percent of the city is impacted by what's going on, 0.02 percent of the entire Los Angeles County. So, just a sense of what it is.

The federal government could be helpful to Los Angeles and the state of California by not antagonizing a situation that exists on the street. The whole point of political leadership is to de-escalate in situations like this. People get heated, we have massive political debates in this country. Violence is not acceptable. Stopping immigration raids is illegal. All of that we can all agree on and still believe that the White House's role is to de-escalate for the local and political leadership.

We've seen the exact opposite. It's not hard to not put things on fire. And I think when we look back at this, we will see that the violence and a lot of this stuff was a crisis that was created because of that tweet on Saturday night where Trump said he was federalizing the National Guard.

BERMAN: So, Carrie, you're talking about how the bar is very high for the judiciary to intervene in actions involving the President and the military and the Justice Department really lean into that in their brief today. They wrote, "Courts did not interfere when President Eisenhower deployed the military to protect desegregation. Courts did not interfere when President Nixon deployed the military to deliver the mail in the midst of a postal strike in courts should not interfere here either." What do you make of that comparison?

CORDERO: Well, I think those Civil Rights cases in particular are going to be pretty compelling for the judiciary, because remember, when they're taking up these types of cases, they have to not just think about it in the context of this particular President, but they have to think about it in the context of the executive more generally, or a future President.

And the record of the 1950's and 60's is that presidents used their federalization power to actually enforce the Civil Rights laws over the objection of southern governors. So, that's the history of how this type of thing played out and the Justice Department briefed in response to California's suit. It does have a few pages that that describe some violence, that if it is an accurate representation, demonstrates some significant issues of violence that were taking place against federal officers.

And so, if the court takes that factual narrative at face value, then I do think California has an uphill battle in this. And, you know, John, just one other thing that -- I think the wild card here is to your earlier question about -- what is going to happen in other cities? It depends on what other governors do.

Some of the other governors might preemptively call up their National Guard under their own command authority, so that they can say to President Trump, we've got this covered, and this is under my state governor control.

BERMAN: Yes, look, we've seen that in Texas with Governor Greg Abbott there, but we haven't seen it in New York with Governor Kathy Hochul, who suggested, at least as of now, and Mayor Eric Adams here in New York City, they don't want to see it happen, at least not yet. John Miller, Juliette Kayyem, Carrie Cordero, thanks to all of you.

Next, reaction from a U.S. member of congress who, like those 700 Marines now training outside L.A., was stationed at a base at Twentynine Palms. His take on the deployment of active duty forces on U.S. soil when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:24:57]

BERMAN: We're looking there at Los Angeles, where a curfew is set to resume at 8:00 P.M. local time there and in New York, where protesters are again down among the federal buildings in Lower Manhattan, there is no National Guard presence there and the city doesn't want any.

[20:25:12]

In Los Angeles, according to local military commander another 2,000 National Guard troops will be ready for duty tomorrow, and 700 active duty Marines are training nearby. They are from a base in Twentynine Palms out in California's High Desert. And these are pictures of our next guest when he was stationed there.

Massachusetts' Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss commanded an infantry platoon at the base and led missions in Afghanistan and Panama and he joins us now.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. As a Marine, did you ever expect to see active duty members of the military, active duty Marines deployed on U.S. soil in the capacity that they are now?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): No, John, because in this scenario, as in almost every scenario imaginable, it is unnecessary, it's illegal, and it's deeply unfair to these Marines. These Marines signed up to sweat and bleed in defense of their country, not to be a political prop for a President who is sagging in the approval ratings.

BERMAN: A hearing on the legality will be held tomorrow in federal court in California.

Can you speak to the type of training Marines typically receive at Twentynine Palms, and how that relates to the new specialized training the unit deployed in Los Angeles is reportedly undergoing?

AUCHINCLOSS: Yes, these Marines are part of Second Battalion, Seventh Marines -- that's an infantry battalion, John, not military police, not logistics. These young men are trained to locate, close with and destroy the enemy, and they are doing so on the Marine Corps premiere live fire training facility. So, what they are training in for years is what's called military operations on urbanized terrain. That's where they use fire and maneuver to cordon off a section of a city to clear the building out, and then to sequentially clear out, follow on buildings. They are not trained to treat a population according to the Bill of Rights. They're trained to treat a population according to the law of armed conflict, and that's appropriate and necessary if you're fighting the people's Liberation Army in Guam.

It's not appropriate in an American City where there is no "rebellion." There's a few scattered protests who, yes, of course, should be subject to the rule of law and the LAPD has made clear they have the resources and training necessary to do that.

BERMAN: Is there any role for the Marines here that would make sense in your view?

AUCHINCLOSS: No, because as the Police Chief of the LAPD said, their deployment actually presents, "operational and logistical challenges" to him. The marines are not trained for crowd control. They are trained to clear out a city block by block.

The LAPD is trained for crowd control. If they need help, they can ask for regional or state assistance through the National Guard commanded by the Governor. We have a system for this, and the LAPD is fully capable of taking protesters who veer into rioting, arresting them and ensuring that they face accountability for destruction of personnel or property.

BERMAN: So, you have said that Congress should look at reining in the President's ability to use the military for civilian law enforcement in certain situations. Can you imagine the Republicans would ever go along with that?

AUCHINCLOSS: Not this term. If Democrats take back the House, I think there's a series of reforms to what has become an imperial presidency that we could get good faith Republicans on board with. So, Posse Comitatus and the Insurrection Acts, which grant the President overly broad authority over using the military for law enforcement, his emergency authorities over tariffs and spending, his ability to or his claims that he has the authority to impound congressional appropriations. All of these are areas where Presidents have overreached. This President is putting it on steroids and I do think Congress could try to reclaim its Article I constitutional responsibility.

BERMAN: Congressman Jake Auchincloss from Massachusetts, appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.

AUCHINCLOSS: Take care.

BERMAN: We'll have more on the politics of the face-off between President Trump and California's Governor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Trump, he's not opposed to lawlessness and violence as long as it serves him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:33:56]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-HOST OF "ANDERSON COOPER 360": California Governor Gavin Newsom is objecting to President Trump calling in the National Guard and Marines due to the L.A. protests and taking him on in the courts, on social media, and in front of the cameras. Last night, making this pointed criticism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM, (D-CA): By the way, Trump, he's not opposed to lawlessness and violence as long as it serves him. What more evidence do we need than January 6th?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, the governor is not the only one talking about the administration's different treatment when it comes to the January 6th rioters. Here's how Attorney General Pam Bondi responded when asked about this by a reporter earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, (R) UNITED STATES ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, this is very different. These are people out there hurting people in California right now. This is ongoing, no longer. We're going to protect them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us this now CNN Political Commentator, Alyssa Farah Griffin, a former White House Communications Director in President Trump's first term, and CNN Senior Political Commentator, Adam Kinzinger, a former Republican Congressman and recently retired member of the Air National Guard.

[20:35:00]

Congressman, January 6th, what do you make of how the Attorney General handled that question? Kind of downplay the comparisons there.

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, it didn't even make sense. I mean, she said, well, this is happening now. I mean, look, Donald Trump was president on January 6th. They also could have admitted responsibility. January 6th was maybe a little less fire, but more violent than what you're seeing in L.A., at least as of now. I mean, how many police officers were injured? Hundreds. A couple took their own life. One was killed during that, a rioter was killed.

Look, to have any kind of thing where you're saying that one is worse than the other is incredible. Look, nobody wants violence. Nobody wants people burning things. But I think you have to look at January 6th and say, yeah, that was a big problem because what it's sending right now, and I think they intend to, is a double standard. If you're on our side, we have your back. Not only do we have your back, we're going to pardon you for any crimes. If you're on the other side of this political debate, we're going to send not the National Guard, they're active duty troops because they're under Title X, and the Marine Corps.

BERMAN: Alyssa, the administration accuses Democrats of downplaying the violence of these protests. How much of a trap is there for Democrats in how they respond to this?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, I think Donald Trump wants this fight and he thinks that he's winning right now, and that may be the case right now. What he's trying to do is goad Democrats into kind of appropriating some of their more reckless rhetoric that they've used in the past, like defund ICE, defund the police. And you're starting to see it with the activist crowd. I haven't seen elected Democrats using it, but that's what he wants.

He wants Democrats to say, this is perfectly peaceful while you see fire, you see building and property damage. You see people looting to kind of say they're for lawlessness and I'm for law and order despite the January 6th of all of it. So I think Democrats need to be thoughtful and I think Gavin Newsom last night actually hit it pretty well by acknowledging what's happening. People need to be peaceful. People need -- they have the right to peacefully assemble, but again, looting, violence is never OK.

He thinks he's winning right now. But what I would say is this, I think Donald Trump interprets saying the U.S. Military and troops on American streets as a sign of safety and strength. I honestly think most Americans are seeing it is a sign of civic breakdown. Just the fact that that's not what we do in America and it kind of evokes some of the worst moments in our history, whether it's post 9/11, post January 6th, the BLM protests, times when it was extremely volatile. So, I think he's misreading that sentiment in a big way.

BERMAN: Congressman Kinzinger, you spent a lot of time in the military. What do you think of seeing active duty troops on the streets?

KINZINGER: It's awful. I mean, listen, I've served in both the Title X, which is a federal capacity, and I did that when I was in the war. And I've served in a Title 32. So when we were stateside in my airplane, I flew, we actually did law enforcement activity full time. We did counter-drug. There were so many rules. Anytime we went into a state, we had to have that governor's permission. We had to have a law enforcement agent on board with us. There were a ton of rules and if I ever went under Title X, again, under federal service, I was prohibited from doing anything that even looked like law enforcement.

It's one thing if the president would've said, we're going to send a hundred active duty troops to protect federal property and to protect ICE agents. And I think that would've been one thing, 4,000 U.S. military troops. Now, again, because they are not National Guard troops, is complete overkill. And the only reason you would send the Marine Corps is to send a chill down people's spines because it's the Marine Corps. So, I mean, this is obviously wrong. If this would've gotten out of control, Governor Newsom would've activated his Guard as requested by L.A.

I do hope one thing though, I hope that this convinces Gavin Newsom not to have people like Steve Bannon and Charlie Kirk on his podcast because these are the kinds of people cheering these kinds of actions.

BERMAN: Well, do you think Bannon wants this fight with President Trump right now? Sorry. Do you think Newsom -- Governor Newsom wants this fight with President Trump right now, Congressman?

KINZINGER: Yeah. I mean, look, yes. Look, I don't think he wants it from the perspective of he would much rather this not be happening. But I do think this is to his advantage if he handles it right. And I think he's probably obviously thinking that. Now, again, that doesn't mean that he's glad this is happening or anything like that, but he is like looking at it and saying, well, how can I position myself in this process? And quickly, on the protesters, this is all about showing the American people whose side to be on. So, the public perception matters and that's where things like burning cars and whatever flags you carry matter.

BERMAN: Alyssa, you mentioned some political peril here for President Trump on the side of the military, but what about where he is on immigration right now and deportations because on both, his handling of immigration and deportations, the new Quinnipiac poll today, he's underwater.

GRIFFIN: Yes. And this was traditionally his strongest issue. What's remarkable to me is Donald Trump could go out there and tell a massive success story. He could say, I secured the border in a hundred days. I did what Joe Biden couldn't do in 40 years. And that's an issue that 80 percent of the country is with him on.

[20:40:00]

But instead, he wants the shock value, he wants the quotas of deportations. He wants to target non-violent migrants in this country with deportations and in some cases, deny due process. Those are all deeply unpopular things. Advisors around him are giving him terrible advice. His instincts are wrong on this, when traditionally it's the issue he's been the most successful on, he's now underwater on.

BERMAN: Alyssa Farah Griffin, Congressman Adam Kinzinger, great to see both of you tonight. Thank you very much. We do have more breaking news, details on the security concerns that have prompted the Trump administration to move some U.S. personnel out of the Middle East.

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[20:45:11]

BERMAN: We do have more breaking news tonight. The U.S. is making moves to relocate some Americans out of the Middle East amid heightened security concerns, intentions ratcheting up between Israel and Iran. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has authorized the voluntary departure of military families throughout the region and the State Department is preparing to order the departure of non-essential personnel from U.S. embassies in Iraq, Bahrain and Kuwait. President Trump was asked about it late tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, they are being moved out because it could be a dangerous place and we'll see what happens. But they are being -- we've given notice to move out and we'll see what happens.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there anything that can be done to dial the temperature down in the region?

TRUMP: They can't have a nuclear weapon, very simply. They can't have a nuclear weapon. We're not going to allow that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I want to bring in CNN National Security Correspondent Kylie Atwood. Kylie, what's going on here? What are you learning?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, as you said, it is both the State Department and the Pentagon that are making moves today to draw down non-essential U.S. diplomats from the Middle East region and also, families of military officials in the region as well. And this is due to heightened security concerns. U.S. Central Command saying that they are monitoring developing tensions in the Middle East. Not citing specifically what those tensions are, but we have long reported over the last few weeks that there are increasing tensions between Israel and Iran.

U.S. officials have been concerned about Israel preparing for a strike against Iran's nuclear program. And we should note that the U.S. diplomatic facilities that are being impacted here are in Iraq, Kuwait, and Bahrain. And this also comes as the Trump administration has been trying to seek an Iran nuclear deal with Iran. They have been in five rounds of talks with Iran. But President Trump saying in an interview that was released today that he is not confident, he's less confident than he has been about the ability to actually reach that deal. He's concerned that Iran is dragging its feet here, is trying some delay tactics for now.

We're told that the six rounds of talks that's scheduled to take place over the weekend, according to a senior U.S. official who spoke with our colleague Kristen Holmes, is now still expected to happen. But we'll watch and see what goes on there, particularly as what is unfolding here appears to be a very active situation.

BERMAN: All right, Kylie Atwood, thank you for that update. With us now is former Senator William Cohen, who was a Republican from Maine and served as Secretary of Defense in the Clinton administration. Secretary, great to see you. What do you make of this, the U.S. pulling non-essential personnel out of Iraq? What does it signal to you? WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It signals that the Iranians are at least anticipating that the Israelis are planning to strike their facilities. Combined with that, with the president now saying it looks like we're not making any progress on getting a nuclear deal, I think they feel that they're under potential attack and they're prepared, I would assume, to make attacks upon our troops in the region, especially in Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq and elsewhere.

Asymmetric attacks against our troops in the region. We've been talking about this for some time and the Iranians are prepared to do that. So, I think we're in a dangerous situation and I think it's a wise thing to get our diplomats out and get our families out of the region until this is resolved, hopefully peacefully.

BERMAN: You don't want Americans caught in the middle of that situation. So, in Los Angeles, do you think it was the right move for the president to send in the National Guard? And what do you make of Secretary Hegseth suggesting we could see this in more states going forward?

COHEN: There's a wonderful line in one of Shakespeare's plays where he says, oh, how excellent it is to have the power of a giant, how tyrannous it is to exercise it like a giant. And so under our Constitution, the president of the United States had been given enormous powers, but there also has been from our founding fathers a concern that whoever occupies that high office, exercise that power with prudence, responsibility, and care and concern for the people that he/she is supposed to represent, regardless of party affiliation, regardless of red state, blue state, et cetera.

And so I think under the circumstances, President Trump simply circumvented the kind of restrictions that our founding fathers and legislators over the years have tried to put in place to make sure that power is not exercised arbitrarily, or in a way that signals that it's absolute power. I think that's what is taking place here. I think that's why President Trump went ahead without the consent of the governor or the mayor, fairly unusual, I think unprecedented under these circumstances.

[20:50:00]

BERMAN: You say unusual, unprecedented. You were Secretary of Defense. Could you have conceived of a scenario were you would push to mobilize Marines on U.S. soil?

COHEN: It would've been very difficult for me to recommend that the president, certainly President Bill Clinton at that time, or any president to invoke the Insurrection Act without there being some mass disturbance in which the local community -- for example, L.A. Police Department and their security environment is one of the best in the country. They are very capable of protecting their own forces and protecting the peace and security.

But in addition to that, they have the police, they have the county sheriffs and the support of all of those in the region. So I think they could have handled it on their own. And if they couldn't, then the mayor would talk to the governor, or the governor would say, I think we need to get our National Guard involved. And certainly, they come from our community. They live in our community. They know the people who are out there demonstrating.

That is a better way to approach it until there is violence on such a scale that the local community and the state can't handle it, then you bring the Feds in. Until that happens, I think it's a mistake to put troops on the ground, fully armed, and have that be seen around the world as what's happening, what's taking place in America. Not a great optic.

BERMAN: ICE release images yesterday that appear to show National Guardsmen on some sort of immigration arrest or detention there, working in kind of a perimeter there. We got about 30 seconds or less, but can you just explain? I don't think we've seen this before, why this is such an unusual picture?

COHEN: Well, we're seeing in my judgment, the militarization of our law enforcement, seeing the military helping and assisting the law enforcement forces. And we're also, on the other side of the coin, we're witnessing the politicization of our military. When the President of the United States goes before Fort Bragg and has a rally- type speech in which you have the applause for the Commander in Chief, we're now seeing the politicization of our military, which is very dangerous for this country.

COHEN: Secretary Cohen, always a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you very much. Next, why Republican Senator Rand Paul says the White House is engaging in petty vindictiveness against him and more of his message about those at 1600, Pennsylvania Avenue. That's ahead.

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[20:57:07]

BERMAN: We continue to monitor the protests in Los Angeles, we'll bring you any new developments. Back to Washington for a moment though. A rare rebuke of the Trump White House from a Republican, it is coming from Senator Rand Paul who is accusing the White House of immaturity and petty vindictiveness, his words. This after he and his family were disinvited from the Annual White House Picnic. The White House has not responded to these comments.

Perspective now from our Chief Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju. Manu, what more is Senator Paul saying?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's very frustrated, John. In fact, this is an event that is a bipartisan one. Democrats and Republicans typically attend this every single year with presidents of both parties. Paul has been to 10 of these, but he thinks he is now the first Senator ever to be disinvited from this event.

He believes this is what "petty vindictiveness." He says that he has lost a lot of respect for Donald Trump for doing this. And he says that not just him, now he's not the only one who's been disinvited. He said also his nearly six-month-old grandson can't come to this event.

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SEN. RAND PAUL, (R-KY): I just find this incredibly petty. I have been an intellectual opponent, a public policy opponent, and he's chosen now to uninvite me from the picnic and to say my grandson can't come to the picnic. I just -- the level of, immaturity is beyond words. And so they've decided, they wanted to declare war on my family and exclude us from the White House, but I just think, it really makes me lose a lot of respect I once had for Donald Trump.

But petty vindictiveness like this, I don't know. It makes you -- it makes you wonder about the quality of people you're dealing with. And the same people that are directing this campaign are the same people that casually would throw out parts of the Constitution and suspend habeas corpus. So, I think what it tells it, they don't like hearing me say stuff like that. And so, they want to quiet me down and it hasn't worked.

RAJU: You're talking about Stephen Miller?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU (on camera): And I went on to ask whether that's Stephen Miller, who's of course that very powerful White House aide, whether or not Rand Paul thinks he should continue to work at the White House, and John, he said quote, "I'm just going to leave it at that." But this is why this is significant too, John. Rand Paul has a vote and there's a narrow Republican Senate majority, in fact just three Republican Senators, that's all that Donald Trump can afford to lose on a party line vote, particularly one to move across his massive bill to implement his domestic agenda.

That bill is one that Paul himself has been sharply critical of because of his concerns of the deficit, concerns that would raise the national debt limit. He does not want that to be part of this bill. And of course, that has what has caused Donald Trump and his aides like Stephen Miller to criticize Paul so sharply over the last several days and weeks. But he is indicating, John, that despite this move, which he calls vindictive and petty, he said he's not changing his position. He does not believe this pressure campaign, ultimately, will work --