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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Senators Briefed on U.S. Strikes in Iran, Offer Conflicting Reaction; Interview with Senator Jeff Merkley (D-OR); Defense Secretary: First Intel Reports are "Almost Always Wrong"; Iran's Supreme Leader Seen For First Time Since Ceasefire; Iran's Supreme Leader Says "It's A Joke" Iran Would Surrender; Iran's Foreign Minister: No Plans To Resume Talks With U.S.; Details Emerge Of Secret Diplomatic Efforts By Trump Admin. To Restart Iran Nuclear Talks; Pentagon Reveals New Details About U.S. Strikes On Iran's Nuclear Facilities. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired June 26, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): -- and whether or not, they will be able to tie the knot in relative peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL (on camera): Erin, one thing's for sure is the couple will be celebrating their wedding in the scorching heat, nearly 90 degrees here in Venice today, and that's set to continue over the next couple of days. We expect to see a lot more in the way of celebrations, a lot more of comings and goings from celebrity guests, but also days, but also, a lot more in the way of protests. The big one is now bound for Saturday -- Erin.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Oh, the heat, maybe that's the foam party is all about. All right, Melissa Bell, thanks so much for joining us and thanks so much to all of you. Anderson starts now.
[00:00:27]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening from Amman, Jordan. Tonight, the ceasefire between Israel and Iran continues to hold, but many questions remain about exactly what the state of Iran's nuclear capabilities are. That question, of course, has yet to be fully determined. There's been a lot of reporting, of course, about that early assessment by the Defense Intelligence Agency, which, as we pointed out, was a very early assessment.
Today. There was a briefing early this morning by the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs-of-Staff, the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, was angry at reporters and basically, for their reporting on that early Defense Intelligence Agency Assessment. A number of the claims he made about the reporting were not accurate. And we put together both what the Secretary of Defense had to say earlier this morning and also what we actually reported about that early Defense Intelligence Agency Assessment. And I want to play that for you now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I want to read some of the assessments that have been provided, because whether its fake news, CNN, MSNBC or "The New York Times," there's been fawning coverage of a preliminary assessment --
When it admits itself in writing that it requires weeks to accumulate the necessary data to make such an assessment.
COOPER: This initial intelligence assessment from the DIA, which was leaked, was, as we reported, very preliminary, no doubt, more assessments using other methods, other sources and deeper analysis are being done.
To be clear, that DIA assessment is only the earliest and first word that we know of on the matter.
HEGSETH: I think it's too much to ask, unfortunately for the fake news. So, we're used to that. But we also have an opportunity to stand at the podium and read the truth of what's really happening.
The DIA that put that report out says this is a preliminary low- confidence report and will continue to be refined as additional intelligence becomes available.
COOPER: And these are preliminary reports, as CNN indicated in its reporting, when this broke yesterday. And there will be other reports coming.
This is an early assessment. There will be other assessments and Bomb Damage Assessments takes time.
HEGSETH: How about the Israeli Atomic Energy Commission, the devastating U.S. strikes on Fordow destroyed the site's critical infrastructure and rendered the enrichment facility inoperable. Have any of these quotes made their way into "The New York Times" or "The Washington Post," MSNBC, CNN?
COOPER: Israel, excuse me, released a statement from its Atomic Energy Commission saying that the strikes destroyed, in their words, the critical infrastructure and rendered the enrichment facility inoperable.
HEGSETH: How about the IDF's chief-of-staff? I can say here that the assessment is that we significantly damaged the nuclear program, setting it back by years. I repeat, years.
COOPER: Today, the IDF chief-of-staff said that their program had suffered severe damage that would set them back years.
HEGSETH: John Ratcliffe, the director of the CIA, putting out a statement just last night.
COOPER: Late today, CIA Director John Ratcliffe had this to say. I'm quoting from his statement, "CIA can confirm that a body of credible intelligence indicates.
HEGSETH: Iran's nuclear program has been severely damaged by recent targeted strikes. This includes new intelligence from a historically reliable.
COOPER: And accurate source/method that several key Iranian nuclear facilities were destroyed.
HEGSETH: And would have to be rebuilt over the course of years.
CIA continues to collect additional, reliable sourced information, keep appropriate decision makers, fully informed.
HEGSETH: Institute for Science and International Security President, David Albright. Overall, Israel and U.S. attacks have effectively destroyed U.N. Iran's centrifuge enrichment program.
COOPER: Joining me now is David Albright, former U.N. weapons inspector.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: There were three sites that make the centrifuges and those were had actually been declared to the International Atomic Energy Agency. And so, there's a confidence there weren't others. And so all three were destroyed.
HEGSETH: How many stories have been written about how hard it is to, I don't know, fly a plane for 36 hours? Has MSNBC done that story? Has Fox? Giving the American people an understanding of how complex and sophisticated this mission really was.
[20:05:15]
COOPER: Pilots got -- did a remarkable job flying all the way around the world and back without stopping safely.
HEGSETH: So, let's take half-truths, spun information, leaked information, and then spin it. Spin it in every way we can to try to cause doubt and manipulate the public mind over whether or not our brave pilots were successful.
COOPER: It was a successful mission. Ordnance was dropped exactly where it was supposed to be dropped.
HEGSETH: You're undermining the success of incredible B-2 pilots and incredible F-35 pilots and incredible refuelers and incredible air defenders who accomplished their mission.
COOPER: It was no doubt a remarkable military achievement, flying halfway around the world, hitting targets with apparent precision, then returning home safely. No one would say or has said otherwise.
HEGSETH: There are so many aspects of what our brave men and women did that because of the hatred of this press corps are undermined because your people are trying to leak and spin that it wasn't successful, it's irresponsible. COOPER: It has nothing to do with the remarkable ability these pilots who flew all the way from the United States and back, executed dropped payloads exactly on target.'
Massive damage was done. You can term it whatever you want. The job was done, and it was done, it was executed, it seems to perfection. The question is, what were the results of it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What Pete Hegseth said we said and what we actually said. Now, before bringing in our first guest tonight, Democratic Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon, who received that classified, classified briefing after the briefing of the media earlier today. I want to play some reaction to the administration's Senate Iran briefing today from some of the senators -- Republican colleagues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): I think it's safe to say that we have struck a major blow alongside our friends in Israel against Iran's nuclear program.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): In technical terms, we knocked the living crap out of our three targets. This was a good briefing. It was one of the best I've ever attended.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Senator Jeff Merkley sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he joins me now.
Senator, thanks for being here. Obviously, there's a lot you can't say about the briefing. It was classified, but where did it leave you on assessing what Iran's nuclear capabilities or ambitions are right now?
SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Well, what the briefing made clear, and I'm speaking only in an unclassified sense here, is that much assessment is yet to be done. There is speculation and estimates, but nobody really knows how much damage has occurred because there's been no ability to inspect in a fashion that would give you that information.
I must say, Anderson, as I watched your preliminary clips there, I think the Secretary of Defense should call you up and thank you for basically addressing when you're reporting everything he wanted said.
COOPER: I was surprised by some of the comments he made because it was exactly what we have reported, but nevertheless, whatever future assessments reveal and as you say, there will be more assessments as there should be, as there always are. It seems the original sin here, and I'm using that as an expression. It's not really a sin, but it seems like for the administration an issue is the President came out and made a statement characterizing, you know, using that word obliteration, obliterate. And his officials now are trying to, you know, continue to use that word to back him up when, when it was just a very early assessment that the President made without any actual real information and that information is still being gathered.
Putting all that aside, what do you think needs to happen now between the U.S. and Iran and Israel and our allies? What are the next steps here?
MERKLEY: Well, absolutely boils down to diplomacy, because to have a sustainable ceasefire and a sustainable peace, you have to have an arrangement over what is allowed and not allowed for Iran's nuclear program. And we've been hearing from the various reports today about some of the conversations that took place before Israel attacked and even conversations that took place during the attacks and it sounds a whole lot like the negotiations that took place under President Obama over exactly what might be offered in terms of the program inside Iran.
And I'll just give you an example, let's go back in time to the JCPOA. The agreement was Iran could not have uranium enriched beyond 3.67 percent in their country. They shipped 25,000 pounds of enriched uranium outside of their country, including every single ounce that was enriched up to 20 percent, nothing over 3.67 percent.
Well, that was a solution to them not having this more enriched uranium and then massive inspections over what they did in country. The big difference seems to be that the terms that President Trump wants, no enrichment takes place inside Iran. So, there's probably a creative solution to that of the ability, perhaps, of Iranians to be at a facility outside Iran to provide this fuel. There's arrangements for the United Arab Emirates on how fuel is provided. There's arrangements right now for providing the fuel for Iran's single nuclear plant -- power plant.
[20:10:58]
So, it sounds like that diplomacy was already being underway, but it needs to be pursued. And now, the Iranians are like, well, wait, you all struck a deal with us back under President Obama and then President Trump violated it, got rid of it, tore it up. And then you told us there were going to be two weeks of negotiations and you attacked us. How can we trust you? And meanwhile, Americans are saying, how can we trust Iran? So there's got to be a lot of diplomatic work to rebuild relationships so that this diplomatic agreement can be forged.
COOPER: The location of enriched uranium, is it clear to you? And I'm sensing it's probably not. But the administration seems to be saying they are convinced that that all that enriched uranium was not moved, that it is probably buried in these facilities. Are you confident of that at this stage?
MERKLEY: No, not at all. I mean, the most dangerous thing that Iran had, it wasn't a ballistic missile. It wasn't a cruise missile. It was, in fact, this 880 pounds of 60 percent enriched uranium. And I don't think anybody outside of Iran right now knows where that's at. And of course, that's key to the future of the possibility of creation of a of a nuclear weapon. But I suspect nobody knows. I think the administration is putting forward -- we hope it's buried in the collapsed structure, deep underground. But I don't think they have any evidence to give them confidence in that.
COOPER: If future assessments that are probably now ongoing show that there is potentially more targets that the U.S. could hit if they wanted to degrade Iran's nuclear capabilities or have Israel hit, would you be supportive of that? Because the situation remains for Israel, it seems they have, if not total control over the skies over Iran, they at least have a lot of freedom of movement that they didn't previously have.
MERKLEY: No, Anderson, I don't think you can bomb your way out of this situation in which you need to have long-term inspections like the IAEA and Atomic Energy Association had the type of sensors that people checking in on those sensors, observing what's going on. You need to have a diplomatic solution to create an enduring confidence and just dropping additional bombs and additional sites. No, that doesn't get you there.
And the President has said, apparently to Israel, don't count on us for doing anything more. And I think that's the right approach. If the United States is going to establish a relationship, to have an enduring solution to a nuclear weapons program, they've got to engage in resolving this diplomatically.
COOPER: Senator Merkley, I appreciate your time, thank you.
Coming up next, two people with long experience carrying out military operations and assessing their outcome. Former intelligence community veteran Norman Roule and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Philip Breedlove join us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:18:38]
COOPER: As we discussed with Senator Jeff Merkley before the break, senators were briefed by the administration today on the Iran operation. House members will get a similar briefing tomorrow. And again, senators today emerged from the meeting divided over what they heard. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham embraced the President's use of the word obliterated. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy did not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Obliterated is a good word for me to use. I can tell people in South Carolina, nobody is going to work in these three sites anytime soon. They're not going to get into them any time soon. They're operational capability was obliterated.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I walk away from that briefing, still under the belief that that we have not obliterated the program. The President was deliberately misleading the public when he said the program was obliterated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now, you can make up your own mind. Some of that may be down to partisan differences. It could simply be the intelligence is incomplete or not fully convincing. Assessments are, after all, still being made.
Joining us now two people extensive experience in intelligence and military matters. Norman Roule is a former senior operations manager with the CIA. He also previously served as U.S. National Intelligence manager for Iran in the office of the director of National Intelligence, and is now a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Also, retired Air Force general and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, Philip Breedlove. Appreciate both of you being with us.
Norman, first of all, what kind of further assessments are likely being made because there are a whole bunch of agencies in the intelligence community, and I know a lot is classified, but just in general, how does the sharpest picture of exactly what happened get formed?
[20:20:15]
NORMAN ROULE, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE MANAGER FOR IRAN, ODNI: Good evening, it's good to be with you and to see the extraordinary General Breedlove with you tonight.
Over coming days and weeks, you're going to see two forms of data being added to this picture. The first will be strong analysis. Some of this is going to be technical analysis of the existing data and technical data as its produced as to what the remaining architecture exists and what could be done with that in various scenarios.
If Iran chose to build a certain type of system, what could happen with that? Another system, what could happen with that and those various scenarios we put forward in front of policymakers? At the same time, there will be collection on what happens on the ground and if there is any enriched uranium outside of those locations where that might be, where these centrifuge parts are located and how many -- how many centrifuges might exist outside of that facility, and how Iran's leadership is deliberating, how it will respond to diplomatic overtures? And all that will be compiled into a picture.
Nonetheless, the basic framework remains, the enrichment program is devastated. The conversion program is devastated, and overt imagery, which you're showing on the screen, would tell anybody that major portions of Iran's nuclear program, which existed a week ago, are no longer there.
COOPER: And General, the Chairman talked about the role of the military versus the intelligence agencies when it comes to creating damage assessments. Does the DIA continue refining the early assessment they put out? Again, how is a consensus ultimately formed? GEN. PHILIP BREEDLOVE, (RET) U.S. AIR FORCE GENERAL: Well, thanks for having me on, and especially with Norm Roule. He is the true expert in this area.
So yes, they're going to continue to refine. As you have seen, play out over the last almost three days now. You know, we've gathered and seen more indications from the studies that we're making, as we were just described, and we're getting a better picture of what we actually expected. And I think the Chairman laid it out magnificently in his presentation why we have such high expectations of the damage. And this is what many of us have been trying to explain in these 30-second time slots we get on T.V..
But the bottom line is the process by which this target was developed weaponeered and then attacked in detail leads us, and we are beginning to see to a conclusion that this program has been damaged significantly.
COOPER: And General, there's been concern for a while -- I guess, let me give this to Norman. Norman, there's been concern for a long time about are there other sites that the U.S., the IAEA is unaware of? Are there other locations where enriched uranium might be stored or may have been taken to? What is your feeling on this whole issue of, you know, is the enriched uranium entombed in these sites? Was it perhaps dispersed at some point? Are there other sites where there's stuff the IAEA wasn't even aware of?
ROULE: Well, I think you need to look at today's briefing, and as General Breedlove noted, it was an extraordinary briefing. And it was extraordinary in part because it spoke of the intensity and the tenacity by which the intelligence community and the military have worked with such focus for such a long time on this target area. And that gives you a sense as to how much work has been done by the United States and its partners in Israel, the United Kingdom and other countries to understand exactly what the threat situation is.
So, in this case, I would just raise the question, if there were another series of sites, why weren't they targeted if there were another series of sites, why isn't Israel or the United States complaining about this now? So, in essence, you're almost asking to prove a negative. How do we know that something that we don't know has been moved, isn't there? How do we know that sites that we don't know, that exist aren't there?
Well, I can tell you that the intelligence community, which is interwoven, so, DIA and CIA is working very closely, are working very closely together. They're magnificent officers. They're looking for these alternative sites and the movement of personnel and pieces routinely. So, this is a standard activity, but it's difficult to prove a negative.
[20:25:12]
COOPER: General, in terms of any future operations that, you know, the U.S. or Israel may decide to take separate from any, you know, negotiations, diplomatic efforts, how long can Israel, in this case maintain the status quo in the skies over Iran? I mean, if they don't have complete freedom of movement, they certainly have, you know, a lot of -- I'm not sure the exact term, but they have a lot of control over the skies, over Iran. Can they just maintain that for years?
BREEDLOVE: I do not think they're going to do that. Because our President has worked with them and his standard is we're done with this. And we're going to now try to work these issues. But I think you need to look back and see how fast how completely Israel established air superiority and in some places, actually air supremacy over Iran. They don't need to maintain it. If Iran proves to be unreliable, untrustworthy in this endeavor, Israel can go right back in and reestablish this, I think, pretty quickly.
It was very, very impressive how quickly they established such a control on the skies over a nation hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles away.
COOPER: Well, we're going to take a short break. We want you to stick around because there's a lot more I want to talk to you about -- Iran's Ayatollah weighing in for the first time since the conflict ended. We'll talk more about where it leaves his regime and his standing in the region.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:49]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, for the first time since the ceasefire, Iran's supreme leader appeared on camera. In a brief statement, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei congratulated the Iranian people for what he claims was their victory. Those were his words over what he called the Zionist regime.
He also had this to say about the president and his call early in the conflict for Iran's unconditional surrender.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI, SUPREME LEADER OF IRAN (through translation): The U.S. president said that Iran should surrender. That means there's no more enrichment. A great Iran and the word of surrender, they don't match. They don't match with each other. It's a joke. It's a ridiculous thing to say.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: Back now with Norman Roule and Retired Air Force General Philip Breedlove. So Norman, what message do you think the Ayatollah there wants to send both to externally and also to his own population and the other elements of his government, the Iran Revolutionary Guard Corps and others?
NORMAN ROULE, FORMER U.S. NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE MANAGER FOR IRAN, ODNI: Well, whatever message he wants to send, the message he sent was clear. The image was of revolutionary designs, an aged, frail leader who has been hiding for a week during a catastrophic security period where Israel had, as General Breedlove put it, would have been air supremacy over much of Tehran.
And the propaganda he has used is something out of the final days of the Soviet Union, a gerontocracy where its aged leadership uses a type of propaganda that even its most ardent supporters realize is simply untrue. We're watching the dying embers of a revolution.
The question is, is it capable of sustaining itself to passage to the next generation of leadership or will it collapse in on itself because of its economic and political failures? It's a very trying period for the regime.
COOPER: Well, Norman, to that question, what do you think happens next? I mean, if Iran still has the intent, I mean, if this, you know, ancient leader and the Revolutionary Guard and others have the intent to redevelop their nuclear capabilities, does this just become a situation of what Israel used to describe as mowing the grass just every, you know, few years or whatever it is, the U.S. or Israel or others, you know, conduct operations to eliminate whatever they build?
Do you see -- is the IAEA essential here? How do you see this evolving, not just returning to the status quo?
ROULE: The IAEA is essential and it looks as if the Iranians will not allow the IAEA the access it requires. It is also likely that Iran will not, however, undertake activities that would involve weaponization because it would prompt, as I think General Breedlove would agree, the Israelis or perhaps even the Americans to undertake military activity.
That means defiance, that means slow negotiations, that means testing for weaknesses in the American position as they try to extract concessions to see just where they can go to sustain the regime, to move it through this period of leadership transition as their political situation requires.
[20:35:15]
COOPER: General, I mean, could Russia or China provide rapid air defense capabilities to Iran?
GEN. PHILIP BREEDLOVE (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Well, I mean, Russia has already provided capabilities to Iran and Israel mowed them down in a detailed way. What was proven there is that the Israeli Air Force is able to take the skies when they want to.
And I think that Norm Roule made a very important point that the conditions need to be set so that the leadership of the theocracy accepts the kind of inspections and things that would allow the West to see the results and maintain the results. Persistent, pervasive, intrusive inspection such that we know what's going on there. That was what was missing from the first agreement.
And many would say that we didn't have the view that we needed. And so I think that as we go forward, Iran has options. And so do the Israelis and the Americans to get them into a better negotiation position.
COOPER: Norman, are you are you -- I don't know if optimistic is the right word. I mean, are you optimistic about the chance for a lasting change in the posture of the Iranian regime? Or does that require ultimately a collapse of this regime?
ROULE: Not a linear term. And the collapse in the regime would require a movement by the Iranian people. And that's something only they can decide that can't really be imposed from by external actors. But the regime knows its fragility.
The last elections that were undertaken in July of last year had a historic low turnout. They've had two vice presidents who've been fired, a finance minister who was impeached. And as he left office, he talked about millions who were in poverty. They can't produce enough electricity for the country.
This is a government that just cannot produce for its people. It knows it and its people know it. But it's just a question when the Iranian people wish to change that. And the U.S. should stand with them when they make that decision.
COOPER: General, you know, Israel obviously wanted regime change. The Prime Minister, Netanyahu, early on spoke directly to Iranians about rising up. How -- I mean, obviously, regime change is something which there's not great track records of often, particularly trying to create regime change from afar. The picture of a balkanized Iran or an Iran with competing ethnic groups or political military groups, how dangerous is a destabilized Iran?
BREEDLOVE: Well, no one wants a destabilized Iran. I will say this, that, you know, many times on the news recently, people are talking about we don't want to fight with 63 million people. And I think that Norm Roule just made it very clear, you know, it's not 63 million people.
The theocracy carries a small sliver of that population. And there is a pretty good sized portion of that population that would have a different plan for Iran. And I don't think it's like some other areas in the world, that there are multiple small groups.
I think it's basically two big groups that we're talking about. But others know this better than I. The big deal is we have learned our lesson about knocking down a regime and then having to do nation building. And I think we want to avoid that at all costs here.
COOPER: Yes. General Breedlove, I really appreciate your time, and Norman Roule as well. Thank you again for being with us tonight.
You can hear the call to prayers sounding right now here in Amman. Coming up next, continuing the conversation on where this all goes next diplomatically. Exclusive CNN reporting and discussions within the administration about trying to bring Iran to the negotiating table with CNN's Fareed Zakaria makes it that and more when we continue. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:44:36]
COOPER: The administration is working to get Iran back to the negotiating table, although the president seems to have expressed some ambivalence about the need for any kind of an agreement. The Iranian foreign minister said today that Tehran had no plans to resume nuclear talks with the United States. He says the Americans betrayed the negotiations in the middle of the process.
And again, Iran's supreme leader also spoke today as we played a portion of his remarks a moment ago. Here he is now leveling a threat.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
[20:45:05]
KHAMENEI (through translation): The fact that the Islamic Republic has access to important American centers in the region and can take action against them whenever it deems necessary is not a small incident. It is a major incident, and this incident can be repeated in the future. If an attack is made, the cost to the enemy and the victim will definitely be high.
(END VIDEOCLIP)
COOPER: In the meantime, CNN has exclusive reporting that the Trump administration has discussed possibly helping Iran access $30 billion to build a civilian energy producing nuclear program and ease sanctions. According to sources, this is all part of an intensifying attempt to bring Tehran to the negotiating table.
We're going to get some perspective now. Joining us is Fareed Zakaria, host of Fareed Zakaria GPS. Fareed, I mean, it's interesting to see the Ayatollah. I mean, we don't know his location, but it's probably deep underground somewhere. He's sitting there making these pronouncements and threats above ground wherever he is.
You know, his military capabilities are severely decimated. Tehran, they're sounding defiant in negotiations. Where do you see this heading?
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: Anderson, they are sounding defiant, and it's part of Iran's playbook. The Iranians have always presented this very proud, nationalistic, defiant posture. They are very weak.
Remember, they were incredibly weak in the 1980s when Saddam Hussein invaded what was then a fledgling Islamic Republic. And they fought for eight years. They lost millions of people. They did not compromise easily. They don't compromise easily.
The Iran nuclear deal with Obama took almost one and a half years of negotiation. So anyone who thinks that they are going to quickly and easily come to the negotiating table and make major concessions don't know the history of the Islamic regime. They are under enormous pressure.
They are fragile. They are weaker than they've been in a long time. But the -- I wouldn't be surprised if they remain fairly defiant and will expect, you know, some concessions back. They will -- it will have to be a two-way process, and it'll probably be a long negotiation. It's not going to finish, you know, in a week or two.
COOPER: Yesterday, the NATO summit, President Trump said that it may no longer be necessary to strike a diplomatic agreement with Iran since the nuclear program has been so crippled by strikes. I'm not sure -- I wasn't sure if he was just trying to telegraph ambivalence or if he actually believes that or thinks that. What do you make of that? I mean, does that -- doesn't there have to be some sort of framework and deal established to just figure out what happens next?
ZAKARIA: Yes, it's interesting you picked up on that, Anderson, so did I. What Trump was reflecting, I think, is the Israeli position. The Israelis seem to feel they don't need an agreement. They view Iran as an existential enemy that's going to be an enemy, at least with the Islamic regime, forever.
They have been trying in subtle ways with their strikes to actually foment regime change. And their feeling is, you know, we'll keep watching the Iranians. If anything moves that we think is suspicious, we'll just strike it. We'll bomb it. We own the skies.
The problem with that is the Iranians have the know-how to rebuild. They have the money to rebuild. It's not that expensive. They could do it underground. They could do it in hidden ways.
Remember Fordow, this enrichment facility we all hear about, for years and years was a secret facility. And with the enriched uranium we think they still have, about 400 kilos, they could make a dash to a nuclear weapon.
And more importantly, as you were implying, Anderson, if you don't resolve this in a way that everyone understands, and there's a deal and there's negotiations and inspections, it will leave the region unstable. It will leave everybody uncertain as to what's going to happen.
It will potentially mean a series of constant aerial bombardments and then perhaps Iranian retaliation in various ways. The Iranians are weak. They're not going to win any of these encounters.
But if you're trying to stabilize the region, you need a political deal. You need basically a second Iran nuclear deal.
COOPER: Yes. Fareed Zakaria, thanks very much. Fareed, I appreciate it.
When we come back, we're going to talk to former Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Also, you should -- I should point out, don't miss the United States Versus Iran, which is a Fareed Zakaria special, Saturday at 9:00 Eastern here on CNN. As I said, coming up next, we'll talk to former Congressman Adam Kinzinger. The details that emerged today on the bunker-buster bombs used on Iran. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:54:37]
COOPER: It is nearing 4:00 a.m. here in Amman, Jordan. And the call to prayers is echoing in the night sky.
We played you some of Defense Secretary Hegseth's press briefings this morning alongside the Joint Chiefs Chairman, General Dan Caine. General Caine gave a straightforward presentation and gave more details about the strikes on Iran. And as you saw, Secretary Hegseth was very unhappy about the press coverage.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
[20:55:03]
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: You see, we're here this morning because in hunting for scandals all the time, in trying to find wedges and spin stories, this press corps and the press corps miss historic moments. There are so many aspects of what our brave men and women did that because of the hatred of this press corps are undermined because your -- people are trying to leak and spin that it wasn't successful. It's irresponsible.
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COOPER: Well, joining us now, CNN Political Commentator Adam Kinzinger and former Republican congressman also served as a pilot in the U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard. Congressman, first of all, what did you make of some of the new details we heard from General Caine and the presentation from Secretary Hegseth?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, General Caine, you know, did a good job of kind of standard what you would expect from a leader. Hegseth basically, look, he's on the receiving end. Donald Trump wanted this nice movie where he could come in at the end, deliver a blow, tie it up with a bow, you know, have a ceasefire, and it's like the end of a blockbuster movie.
And unfortunately, he by his own doing said that it was obliterated. So he created this question. And so now what you have is Pete Hegseth and everybody around Donald Trump that are now trying to create a straw man. The straw man is, you know, you're going after the military, or you're actually not telling the good story here.
No, I mean, everybody I've seen has reported exactly what happened in Iran. But now the problem is since Donald Trump said obliterated, and we just don't know that yet, he's created the story. And so what you see is this.
Now you have these people that should be very serious, the Secretary of Defense, these people in the intelligence community, instead of giving us kind of clean cut stuff, they're actually being mouthpieces now for the president. And honestly, it's politicizing the military, politicizing the intel community. And it's just this usually doesn't have a great ending.
COOPER: You know, there's a long history of this kind of conflict. And, you know, I'm a student of the Vietnam War, read a lot about it. I was fascinated by it. And, you know, the body count given by the military became this thing, a benchmark of progress.
And there was manipulation of the body count from everything I've read. And people lost faith in what, you know, in briefings, what generals were saying. There's a danger if there's a politicization of the intelligence process, of the presentation of intelligence.
KINZINGER: There's a massive problem with that. So obviously, you know, the intel community, fair or unfair, took a beating after, you know, the Iraq war. And then now, you know, Donald Trump basically came to power on, spent 10 years attacking the intel community.
So then all of a sudden, you know, his people or whatever, want some answers to that. And what has he done? I mean, he's created this situation where people are like, what's going on? And then what he does is now actually does politicize the intel community.
Again, he has people, the head of the CIA, Secretary of Defense, Tulsi Gabbard, that now have to come out and basically give news stuff so that they can prove their boss right. And so most Americans are now looking at that going, well, can I really trust it, or are they just doing what Donald Trump wants them to do?
I mean, this is a mess he's created by his own hand. I mean, every American understands if he would have said, look, we don't know yet. We're assessing what's going on here. But he's doubled down.
And again, this is nobody's fault. It's not your fault. It's not the news fault. It would be bad if the news didn't cover it, because this is like one of the most newsworthy things to happen in a while. This is unfortunately Donald Trump's own fault for doubling down and not just saying what everybody knows.
COOPER: If you were a member of Congress still, what would you be wanting to know to figure out what should happen next?
KINZINGER: Well, I would want to know as the intel community is understanding what actually happened. And again, this takes time. They might not even know for another month or two. We always think that they have instant knowledge.
The reality is this is a thing underground and we destroyed the entrances to it. And by the way, centrifuges are very delicate, so they're probably destroyed anyway. But I would want to know the details of that. I would want to know that if it wasn't destroyed, is there a follow-up plan or is that going to be part of the negotiations? But unfortunately, and this is -- I will give the administration this, Congress leaks like a sieve. And so most of these briefings, they say they're top secret. A lot of them are edited down unless you're on specific committees like foreign affairs or intelligence, and things like that.
COOPER: Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, I really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.
KINZINGER: You too.
COOPER: Obviously a lot to learn --
KINZINGER: Yes.
COOPER: -- in the coming days and weeks and even months. This is a story that is going to continue. We'll continue to cover it.
The news continues right now. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.