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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Sources: Deputy FBI Director Bongino has Told People He Is Considering Resigning Amid Epstein Files Fallout; At Least 128 Flooding Deaths And At Least 150 Still Missing; Interview With Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D-FL); Sources: FEMA's Response To Texas Floods Slowed By Noem's Cost Controls Prompt Rep. Moskowitz To Call For An Investigation; TX Resident Days "More Could Have Been Done" Before Floods; Former CNN Political Analyst David Gergen Dies At 83; "Live Aid: When Rock 'N' Roll Took On The World" Premieres Sunday at 9P ET/PT. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 11, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Whether talking about federal budgets or presidential behavior, he said what he believed.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think in the end of the day, the President is going to have to answer questions under oath. How they get there? I do not know.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: And for all of us here at CNN, David was part of the family. He will be missed deeply -- Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Always remember David's incredible kindness. How personally welcoming he was to me when I came here to CNN. It is the loss of a wonderful man, a truly wonderful man. Thanks so much to all of you for being with us on this Friday. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:43]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Tonight on 360, the FBI's number two is a no show at work today. Will the former conspiracy peddling podcaster give up his government gig and return to the airwaves?

Also tonight, with FEMA's response to Texas flooding under scrutiny, the President goes to the scene and dismisses a question about warning systems as something only an evil person would ask.

Also, remembering David Gergen, a fixture on CNN and a friend whose voice and good faith, good humor and humanity in politics has sadly gone silent.

Good evening, thanks for joining us. It is hard to imagine what David Gergen would have made of the lead story tonight. His Washington was not the kind of place where a former podcaster and conspiracy theory amplifier would be deputy FBI director, but that is what Dan Bongino is, though, for how much longer isn't very clear.

CNN has learned that he's been telling people he might resign. Also, that he's at odds with Attorney General Pam Bondi over how the Jeffrey Epstein case was being handled. They had what sources familiar with the matter say was a heated confrontation earlier in the week. This was also when you'll remember, the Justice Department made the announcement that there was no evidence that convicted sex offender and former Trump friend kept a client list, or that he was murdered in his jail cell back in 2019.

Recall, too, that back in February, Attorney General Bondi was asked about this list on Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?

PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: She went on from that to, in so many words, nothing to see here, which set off a storm in far right talk show land, of which until recently, Dan Bongino was a big moneymaking star. Here's some of what he had said on the subject last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BONGINO, UNITED STATES DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: What the hell are they hiding with Jeffrey Epstein?

The questions surrounding this alleged suicide are numerous, and are worth entertaining and worth getting to the bottom of quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And that last part Epstein's death and surveillance video from the jail also factors into Bongino's frustrations, according to some familiar with the situation. It has a minute long gap in it, which the attorney general has attributed to the taping system resetting every evening. CNN's Kaitlan Collins was part of the team that broke this whole story. She joins us now. So, what does Dan Bongino's job status right now?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: It remains to be seen. Right now, Anderson, last we were told, is that he is still the deputy director of the FBI. He just didn't go into the office today because of course, this blowup that happened that kind of was encapsulated in real time this week when there was a confrontation inside the West Wing where Attorney General Pam Bondi confronted Dan Bongino and the FBI Director Kash Patel, believing that they were leaking information and stories that that basically said the FBI wanted to release more than what the DOJ did with that memo, where they basically said on Sunday, nothing else is going to come out of this. They denied leaking that and being part of that. But you can just see the frustration and the suspicion and paranoia that is happening behind the walls of the West Wing tonight over this exact story. And a lot of it just has to do with the fallout that is coming from the base. And I talked to White House officials on Tuesday after we were in that two-hour Cabinet meeting with President Trump, and when he got asked about the MAGA anger, he kind of dismissed it and asked if anyone was still talking about it. It has not gone down, though, since then, Anderson. It has only continued to grow.

And so, it has kind of become this point where there is a major point of tension between Dan Bongino and the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, where he is telling people since yesterday that he is considering resigning from his post because he doesn't believe they can essentially work together anymore.

Now, whether or not that actually happens and if he does resign, that still remains to be seen. I mean, he has had some public comments where he didn't seem to really be enjoying the job in the first place. And so, this is something that a lot of the anger that I've heard from people has distilled down to what Pam Bondi has said in interviews like that one where she was already on the job and already the Attorney General, and continued to kind of perpetuate some of these questions about what people were going to see related to the Epstein files. And they believe that is what's resulted and what is playing out right now.

COOPER: So, does this boil down to -- or will it boil down to who President Trump supports more? Pam Bondi or Kash Patel and Dan Bongino?

COLLINS: It could, remember that Kash Patel is outright threatening to resign. I think he's sympathetic to Dan Bongino, who is his number two, and they work very closely together. There's just a wall that separates their offices. But I think when it comes to loyalties and where this comes down, at the end of the day, right now, there is no question that the President is going to fire Pam Bondi. That is what some people in MAGA are calling on him to do.

That includes Laura Loomer, who is, you know, a steadfast ally of his and who has been successful in intervening previously in getting the President to fire people that she has argued are not loyal to him, are not good for his agenda. She was the one who this morning was noting that Bongino did not show up to the FBI and that he was considering resigning over this.

[20:05:35]

She is pushing for Bondi's ouster. Right now, that does not seem likely. She has the Senate-confirmed Attorney General but it does remain to be seen whether or not Bongino actually follows through on this. And I think just what it shows, Anderson, that this is all kind of their own making, because Kash Patel, Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi were three of the officials who pushed a lot of the information when it came to Jeffrey Epstein. Certainly, Dan Bongino, when he was a podcaster, as you just heard there. And so, officials inside the white house are very frustrated because they feel like this news cycle is only getting worse for them.

It is not from people that they can easily dismiss or say it's the media or Democrats. It is their own base that is so furious and so angry over how they've handled this. And the question is how they get out of it and it could result in the departure of the Deputy FBI Director over this.

COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, thanks. We'll see you at the top of the hour for "The Source."

Joining me now is former Illinois Republican Congressman, now CNN senior political commentator Adam Kinzinger, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, who previously served as assistant FBI director overseeing public affairs and CNN senior justice correspondent, Evan Perez, who is part of the team that also broke this story. Evan, what are you hearing from your sources about where this is possibly headed?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're going to see whether Dan Bongino cools off over the weekend and shows up to work on Monday. That's certainly what I think White House officials are hoping, Anderson. And I think certainly the folks at the at the Justice Department do the same.

I want to call your attention to a tweet or a post on X from Todd Blanche, who is the Deputy Attorney General, sort of trying to push back on Laura Loomer. And one of the things he says is that: I work closely with the FBI Director Kash Patel and with Dan Bongino on this joint FBI-DOJ memo on Monday.

Now, the importance of that is not only to push back on Loomer, but also a sort of a warning to Dan Bongino that if this continues, the Justice Department certainly has proof to show that he was on board with sending out that memo on Monday.

Blanche is right that all of these folks signed off on that memo. They didn't sign it when it went public, but they certainly were okay with it on Monday. However, it doesn't cover up the fact that behind the scenes, there's been dissension and there's been certainly disagreement behind the scenes between FBI officials and the Justice officials over how this whole thing has gone down.

And so, you can see that certainly in the way Bongino, in an interview on "Hannity" in May, he kept saying that they were going to release more information, more of these documents, even though across the street at the Justice Department, they had already determined that there was no way they could release these documents because there were too many pages, thousands of pages with blacked out redactions that they felt were going to just drive up more of the conspiracy.

So you can see that behind the scenes, there were all of these disagreements, and everybody was trying to sing off the same song sheet on Monday until they weren't.

COOPER: John, one of the things that's so unusual about this is, I mean, I don't know of any other instance where there's been an FBI director and a number two of the FBI who are appearing on podcasts still and seem very interested in maintaining their sort of social media celebrity.

I don't know if that's because they want to maintain it once they leave this job, whenever that may be. And, you know, now they're in a position -- I don't know if this for Dan Bongino, this is a realization that if he upsets this -- the MAGA base, the folks who have been listening to his podcast, he may not have a post FBI podcast career. And if he could get out now, he maybe could salvage it.

I mean, how unusual is it for top FBI officials to be very concerned about social media chatter?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I mean, completely unprecedented. There is no universe where either Christopher Wray or Robert Mueller would have been doing their -- you know, daily podcasts and other social media platforms.

COOPER: Yes, I remember Christopher Wray on Joe Rogan or on any podcasts.

MILLER: So, you also have to factor in. This is a new FBI and that is very controversial because many argue it's a broken FBI because its being run not by career FBI people or a retired federal judge, but by two political operatives, one of whom made his bones in social media as a very successful podcaster. Dan Bongino --

[20:10:16]

COOPER: And we're having a problem with John Miller's connection. We'll try to get back. Congressman, should anyone be surprised at how this is playing out? Again, it just seems to me that if Dan Bongino is interested in podcast, you know, was a big success in podcasting, you know, amplified conspiracy theories, doesn't like his FBI job, is concerned that, you know, he's betrayed the base that that got him to the table in the first place. I mean, is this just a play to, like, get back to his podcasting gig?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's possible. Look, I mean, the thing that these folks want more than anything is fame. Fame is very hollow, but it's what they want and they're never satisfied so they keep chasing it. That's why, you see, I believe people like Kash Patel and Dan Bongino, instead of buckling down and doing their job at the FBI, why they continue to be in the podcast space. They want to be famous, they want to have that option when they leave. And this is a beast of their own making. I mean, the whole Jeffrey Epstein thing was a was a law created by the right to try to say that it was the Democrats.

Of course, everybody on the list is going to be a Democrat. Every Democrat you don't like is on the Epstein list. And then all of a sudden it comes out that, in fact, the story that it took his own life is true. Now, there are some questions about, you know, a list. Is there a list that exists? But you knew that was bound. When you build a movement on conspiracy and that conspiracy is disproven by the people you're supposed to trust. There's going to be chaos. And so, when you are terminally online, like Kash and like Dan Bongino are, this feels like a much bigger issue to you than maybe it does to you and I, who are just kind of seeing it and, you know, whatever. But if they're saturated in this and they feel like everybody's after them.

COOPER: Well, John, you also have this unique situation where the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, also is appearing on camera with great regularity and clearly wants to maintain a high public profile and is making public statements about all of this and that's contributed to it.

MILLER: And I mean, the backlash has been the QAnon crowd and the other supporters of the conspiracy theory have called for her resignation. Dan Bongino is considering resigning based on the blowup in the White House, where -- think of the irony of this, he's thinking of quitting because she may have accused him of leaking an idea that the FBI wanted to release more, which he denies. Basically, he'd be resigning for the honor of the FBI that he once promulgated these conspiracy theories about. It's a very weird place to be right now in the Justice Department.

COOPER: Congressman, how concerned do you think Attorney General Bondi should be that Laura Loomer not only has power in the administration, as we have seen in other meetings she's had with the President and the results of that, but that Laura Loomer is now calling for her to be fired.

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, look, as weird as it is, she should be worried by it because Laura has shown that when she puts somebody in her crosshairs on social media, she went in, you know, to talk to the National Security Council and got her way on a significant number of firings. You know, this is -- look, it's an administration, it's a President that pays attention to online influencers. I hope that's not the new normal after him, but it certainly is the normal now. And so, that she's going after Pam Bondi doesn't necessarily mean, you know, the Attorney General is gone this week or next week, but certainly she has a proverbial target on her for being the next person fired because, you know, look, the they've got to find a scapegoat.

Right now, you have MAGA tearing itself apart. Ironically, they've never -- they didn't tear themselves apart over January 6th. They didn't tear themselves apart over Ukraine-Russia. It's over the Epstein list. But regardless, they're tearing themselves apart. And I think it could get to a point where President Trump is going to say he needs a scapegoat. She very well could be her.

COOPER: Evan, can you just explain again? So, if Dan Bongino is so upset, he's upset that Pam Bondi accused him of leaking stuff or planting a story.

PEREZ: Right, exactly. I mean, look, there were some stories earlier in the week that tried to show some distance between the FBI and the Justice Department. Now, that's true, there is some distance behind- the-scenes. But by the time we got to Monday, where that that statement that was issued from the department, I think everybody had decided this was the best way to go forward. And that's what Todd Blanche was referring to in his post on X.

But I will say this, Anderson, behind the scenes, certainly everybody has been certainly upset because you remember that event at the White House in February where Bondi brought together these MAGA influencers and they were they were given these binders that supposedly had new documents. And it turned out all of those documents, almost all of them had been out there for years. And so, that's where the genesis of this idea that she mishandled this and really built up the expectation that there was more to come, has come from and that's why you see certainly this dissension behind the scenes between the two sides of Pennsylvania Avenue, the FBI and the Justice Department.

[20:15:41]

We'll see whether, you know, again, that event on Wednesday, where they had this blowup, whether that is the straw that breaks the camel's back or whether they can finally find a way to patch this up.

COOPER: Yes, it's just weird. Evan Perez, thank you very much. Adam Kinzinger, John Miller as well.

Next, a week after people in Texas Hill Country woke up to the worst of the flooding, the President tours the area and questions continue over FEMA's delayed response.

Also, what people in one of the hardest hit areas are telling CNN Shimon Prokupecz, about what they've been going through and the preventative steps that might have been taken before the water started rising.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:40]

COOPER: President Trump and First-Lady Melania Trump were on the ground in hard hit Kerrville, Texas, today, one week after the catastrophic flooding. They met with first responders and families. The President expressing condolences for at least 128 lives lost and praising the search team, still looking for at least 150 missing people along a 30-mile stretch of the Guadalupe River.

Also tonight, there are still questions about the response to the flooding at the local level by FEMA. Here's what happened today when a local reporter asked President Trump about the emergency alert delays.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Several families we've heard from are obviously upset because they say that those warnings, those alerts didn't go out in time. And they also say that people could have been saved. What do you say to those families?

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I think everyone did an incredible job under the circumstances. This was, I guess, Kristi said, a one in 500, one in a thousand years. And I just have admiration for the job that everybody did. There's just admiration. The -- only bad person would ask a question like that, to be honest with you. I don't know who you are, but only a very evil person would ask a question like that.

I think this has been heroism. This has been incredible, really. The job you've all done. It's easy to sit back and say, oh, what could have happened here or there? You know, maybe we could have done something differently. This was a thing that has never happened before, and nobody's ever seen anything. I've never seen anything like this. I've gone to some real bad ones. I've never seen anything like this.

So, I admire you, and I consider you heroes and heroine. And I think you've done an amazing job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: With more on the President's visit here, CNN's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: It's hard to believe the devastation, trees that are a hundred years old just ripped out of the ground. I've never seen anything like it.

We're filled with grief and devastation with the loss of life and unfortunately, they're still looking. They're still looking. There's a lot of missing.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In Kerrville, President Trump and the First-Lady met with flood victim's families.

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are grieving with you. Our nation is grieving with you.

LAVANDERA (voice over): During the President's visit, first responders and teams of volunteers kept searching for victims, and crews also continued the massive effort to remove debris and clean up dozens of miles of flood damage in Kerr County.

More Texas counties were also added to the President's disaster declaration, which will provide more recovery assistance through FEMA.

Before Trump's arrival in the Texas Hill Country, a Department Of Homeland Security spokesperson put out a statement saying that, "FEMA as it exists today, will no longer exist." Leaning more on local authorities to manage disaster recovery.

But President Trump appears to be changing course on those plans to phase out FEMA and praise the agency for its response.

TRUMP: My administration is doing everything in its power to help Texas. When the request was made for the emergency funds. Kristi, I think we gave it within about two minutes, maybe less, and they had everything they needed, right?

LAVANDERA (voice over): That runs counter to what four sources told CNN that the disaster agency's response was delayed by more than 72 hours after the flooding, slowed by Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem's policy that requires her approval for even small FEMA expenditures.

One Democratic Congressman is calling for an investigation into FEMA's initial response.

All along the Guadalupe River, communities are relying on an army of volunteers to get through the first days of this tragedy. Texas officials say more than 12,000 volunteers have descended on the disaster zone, while local residents are giving mixed reviews to FEMA's response under the Trump administration.

DANIEL OLIVAS, KERRVILLE RESIDENT: I really appreciate his support. We just need to see a little bit more action from the federal government.

LAVANDERA (voice over):Daniel Olivas is retired from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Floodwaters ravaged his home on the river bank, and so far, it's been volunteers helping him clear everything out.

OLIVAS: Like everybody, were exhausted. We need a break, and we need the resources from our government to step in and come in behind the wave of volunteers and provide resources such as debris cleanup. That's a big one, because if it wasn't for these guys, that debris would have been there probably for months.

LAVANDERA (voice over): Some residents say they are being shuffled from agency to agency for help.

CAROL CLARK YEOMANS, KERRVILLE RESIDENT: I came here to talk to FEMA about the rental property we have because we don't have flood insurance on that house, and the insurance company can't help with it, but FEMA cant because it's a secondary property. So then I talked to community action people, and they gave us a mop and some, you know, stuff to help.

[20:25:23]

LAVANDERA (voice over): Tributes, meanwhile, to the victims grow crosses, snapshots of the lives lost, framed by flowers, fill a memorial wall to the more than 120 people found dead after the floods receded and residents, including 91-year-old Charles Hansen, are doing what they can to make things a little better each day.

CHARLES HANSEN, KERRVILLE RESIDENT: I had to borrow a rake and a shovel and everything. I think the best thing I can do in respect for the people is to help clean up the mess.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (on camera): Anderson, in the weeks since the devastating flooding, search teams and volunteers have been scouring the Guadalupe River. It's an emotionally draining task, especially for those who have found victims and what is sinking in for many people here is that it's also a recovery and a search that will not end anytime soon -- Anderson. COOPER: Ed Lavandera, thanks so much.

Ed, mentioned CNN's reporting that Secretary Noem didn't authorize FEMA's deployment of urban search and rescue teams until more than 72 hours after the flooding began, according to multiple sources.

That reporting prompted Florida Congressman Jared Moskowitz to send a letter to the Congressional Committees that oversee FEMA. He's calling for a formal investigation to FEMA's response to the flooding. Congressman Moskowitz joins me now. We should also note that he worked as director of the Florida division of emergency management prior to his time in Congress. So, congressman, have you gotten any response to your letter?

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): No, I have not gotten any response to my official letter, Anderson. I don't expect that, Congress is on break, but when we get back on Monday, I'll be going to see the Chairman and Ranking Members of both committees, because the idea that FEMA did not send or activate because it doesn't have swift water rescue crews, these crews are located in other states. They were either located in New Orleans. They were located out of Omaha, or even out of Florida, where Task Force One and Task Force Two are located.

The idea that they weren't activated within 24 hours, and it took three days for the Secretary to make that decision, is not only unconscionable, it's never even heard of FEMA doing that. These decisions usually get made quickly. They get made by FEMA administrator. And that's part of the problem here is that, you know, look, we've known for a while that FEMA is needed reform. There's lots of reforms that have been proposed. But what the Secretary has done is actually broken the agency to the point that the only person who can make a decision is the Secretary, no longer the acting administrator, who, by the way, hasn't even been on the ground.

Again, that is unprecedented, the idea that FEMA administrator is not on the ground with the President, always travels with the President, always travels with the Secretary to a disaster area. He's not there, because he's got no experience in disaster management. And so, these decisions, Anderson, not only have not made FEMA more efficient, not only have not reformed FEMA, they've made FEMA slower. The direct opposite of what we need to accomplish.

COOPER: It's interesting to hear from both the Governor in Texas and President Trump today attacking a reporter for asking a question about response times and should, you know, could things have been done better and or is there something that could be fixed for the next time? President Trump certainly had no problems criticizing disaster response of his predecessor or of, you know, FEMA officials or others during, in the response to Helene, for instance.

MOSKOWITZ: Oh, I'm shocked, Anderson. I'm shocked that, you know, things went so poorly seven months ago and now they're perfect. I'm shocked that that's the response. I'm shocked that a Republican governor is saying a Republican administration is doing fantastic. I'm shocked. I can't believe that that's the response were getting. The truth is that President is correct. The people on the ground, those first responders, those folks that are dedicating their time. Right, the charities that are there, they are heroes.

But the point of government in this instance, the point of FEMA is to organize this, it's to direct it. It's to be the conductor of all of the pieces, the moving parts. And that's what is missing and I will tell you the response to Texas is either on par or slower than the response to the floods that were in North Carolina that the President criticized. And that's why I want an investigation, because what we need to do is we need to do an After Action Review.

We do that after every disaster. What worked, what didn't work, and what can we improve. If we don't ask those questions, we don't learn from the mistakes that were made. Did they not issue the evacuation orders fast enough? Did they not move in swift water rescue crews fast enough? Did the fact that they didn't have an alert system in the county add to any delay? There's a three-hour gap between when they sent out that final warning and when they did evacuation orders, and those are done at the local level.

How is the communication between the locals, the state, the regional offices at FEMA and headquarters? How long did it headquarters to give an answer? That is what we need to find out. That is why you do an investigation, Anderson.

COOPER: Congressman Moskowitz, appreciate your time. Thank you very much. We will continue to follow it.

Coming up next, more from Kerrville, mounting frustration on the ground there and later, remembering long-time CNN political analyst and friend, David Gergen who has died at the age of 83.

[20:30:34]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:35:29]

COOPER: As more questions than answers remain about the timeline of warnings and the emergency response to the floods in Texas, some people in hard-hit areas are becoming frustrated, saying more could have been done to avoid this tragedy.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz has more.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BUD BOLTON, KERRVILLE, TX RESIDENT: Water was this deep right where I'm standing, but we got our warning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every RV that is gone, kids are screaming inside the RV and they're getting washed away.

BOLTON: Me and my wife, after we watched these kids screaming, that we're standing up there, water's about this deep where we're standing right now, but where that river is. We got our notification after all these houses were gone.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Bud Bolton woke up to floodwaters consuming the banks of the Guadalupe River on July 4th. The RV Park he once called home was already unrecognizable.

BOLTON: This was the perfect storm. Everything happened perfectly for this to happen, from warnings not being put out when they should have been put out, river not being monitored when it should have been monitored, people not being notified.

What I would have done, I would have seen about 10 sheriff's cars up that way and they got lots on their patrol cars, they got sirens on their cars, and they got a PA system and their PA systems are loud. Space them apart down through there. Have somebody monitor that river.

This is the only river in Texas that you can drive this whole stretch from Mystic Camp all the way past Camp Fort (ph) and you can stay right beside the river. They could have used the PA systems or lights, their sirens and got behind, not right behind each other, got about a quarter mile behind each other, spread them out and go through there and warning people.

PROKUPECZ: Other people who know this river knew to watch. But how do you explain that the county officials, the local officials didn't know to do what you were doing?

BOLTON: I'm just a little old Bud. I'm a citizen here. Ask them that. Ask them that.

PROKUPECZ: They won't answer those questions.

BOLTON: That's right. That's exactly right. They won't answer those questions or they'll answer those questions and sugarcoat them.

More could have been done. This ain't Kerrville -- this ain't this country's first rodeo. We've been through this many times. I'm sure they did their job the best that they could.

You know, bless their hearts and bless all these workers and bless the sheriff's departments and the game wardens and everybody that's pitched in. But if they could see the pictures that's on my phone that it can't be shown that my son has shown me, of him putting a little nine-year-old dead girl that he found by himself in his kayak and he put her in his kayak and floated her down the river and called the sheriff's department, I guess they came and took the little girl, you know?

So -- but my heart is still there and my emotions are here. My emotions are there and my emotions -- I hear the little baby screaming and the little kid screaming. And my friends and everybody that lost their home, good people, you know? And it's like, you know, what do you do?

PROKUPECZ: What do you need now? What do you want? BOLTON: I want these families to all have closure. And that's why my buddy's down there that's waiting on me right now. He's down there digging through piles by himself. And we've been together for the last four or five days, digging, digging.

Things could have been done. They can fix certain bottlenecks points in this river. It takes a lot of money, but one life is worth every bit of it. One of those babies' life is worth every bit of dime they would spend to fix this river.

One little girl, one little boy. It's just those poor little kids. I don't care about my items, just those little kids. I can't get out of my head and I can't sleep.

Here we are. We're going to do what we can do. Go as far as we can go, find who we can find.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PROKUPECZ (on-camera): Anderson, it's quite tough to listen to this strong man here who, you know, was just dealing with so much and was very reluctant to tell his story. But he finally agreed because he's frustrated and he's angry over what he thinks should have happened here and didn't.

And maybe in the coming weeks, we'll get the answers. You know, the state legislators are planning to convene a special session. Other officials here say there's going to be an after action review.

We'll see because up to this point, they've not been willing to answer those questions, those questions that Bud has and others in this community. Many are not willing to step forward and be as brave as him, but there will be others, you know. As we get ready to wrap up here this week, I know there will be others in this community who are going to speak up and start demanding some answers.

Anderson?

[20:40:03]

COOPER: Shimon Prokupecz, I appreciate it. Thank you.

For more information about how you can help the flood victims, go to CNN.com/impact.

Coming up next tonight, remembering a friend and a former CNN analyst, David Gergen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We got the sad news today that our friend and our former CNN colleague, David Gergen, has died after a struggle with Lewy body dementia. He was 83 years old.

[20:45:04] It was more than a privilege to have known David and as always, a pleasure to see him. In part, simply because of all that he'd seen in a Washington career, dating back to the Nixon administration, then through the Ford and the Reagan years.

Take a look at a picture of David in 1981, all the way in the back, looking impossibly young in that photo. And though he physically stood head and shoulders above most people in any room, he was always down to earth, close to his Durham, North Carolina roots and with a way of finding kind of the nub of the matter for everyday Americans.

It was David as an adviser then candidate Reagan, who came up with the debate question that helped him persuade many Democrats to vote Republican for the very first time.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DAVID GERGEN, ADVISER TO REAGAN: Are you better off than you were four years ago?

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COOPER: That was David Gergen's line. Less than two years later, Americans would hear some of the worst news imaginable from him as well.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

GERGEN: Good afternoon. This is to confirm the statements made at George Washington Hospital that the president was shot once in the left side this afternoon as he left the hotel. His condition is stable. A decision is now being made whether or not to operate to remove the bullet.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: David would serve President Reagan through most of his first term, much of it as communications director. He'd go on to cross party lines, becoming counselor to Bill Clinton in the early 1990s. And throughout his service to Democrats and Republicans alike, he was always a voice of moderation, whether as the longtime conservative leaning half of the PBS team of Gergen and Mark Shields, or in just about everything he said and how he said it, which was not the same as he would later say as splitting the difference.

Centrism, he said, was about seeking solutions and bringing people along. And as I found out many, many times, doing it with a smile, even when speaking blunt truths.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: So David Gergen, if you were John McCain tomorrow and you were in his campaign, what is the message? Would you go out -- and besides, oh, I won the debate and didn't I do great? How does the race change now for John McCain?

GERGEN: Beats the hell out of me. The --

COOPER: By the way, as a presidential adviser, did you ever say that to a president?

GERGEN: They -- I -- he said at a moment that I think he will come to regret that he was going to go out and whip Obama's you know what. That was his pledge. He went out and threw everything he had at it tonight. It did not work.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: How many people did we have on that panel? But David Gergen stood out. I'll always miss that David Gergen. And I'm sure I'm not alone.

Late last year, his daughter, Katherine, revealed that her father had Lewy body dementia. And she wrote a beautiful article about it. And she wrote about how he was doing and what they talked about in his moments of clarity. And here's some of what he told her.

He said, "I keep thinking about Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" speech. And that we still have so far to go as a country you could not have imagined everything that could have happened from that moment."

David Gergen was lucky. He got to do more than just imagine. And we are lucky that he did.

CNN's other esteemed David, former Obama Senior Adviser David Axelrod joins us now. David, obviously David Gergen was a lovely man with a great sense of humor and an extraordinary perspective on American life. How are you remembering him tonight and thinking about him?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, Anderson, I so enjoyed and I was so honored to be with him on your set so many times over the years, because I felt a real kinship to David. It wasn't just that we had both served in senior roles in the White House, but we both had sort of one foot in journalism and one foot in politics.

And we both had real reverence for the system, for government, for the process of how a democracy works. And he had -- because of his varied experiences, he had such a feel for the roles of everyone in the process, the president, other politicians and the media. And he traveled freely between them and understood what each of their jobs were. And that made him effective over a number of -- and the idea that he served four different presidents is mind boggling.

There's no one in history who could make that claim. And it speaks to the talent and the insights that he had. But when he spoke with us -- go ahead.

COOPER: He also, I mean, he also -- he wasn't a screamer. He wasn't, you know, trying to be on a panel and get into arguments about -- or phony arguments about stuff he didn't believe in. He wasn't trying to create, you know, viral moments. And, you know, he put great thought into what he said, and he wanted it to be accurate.

[20:50:13]

And, I mean, he was an incredibly just thoughtful person on camera and off. There was no David Gergen on camera that was different than David Gergen off camera.

AXELROD: Without question, he -- and I had so many interesting conversations with him off camera about events. You know, when I said to you, he served four presidents, presidents of both parties, when you talk about the moderation with which he carried himself and the fact that he treated people respectfully, even if he disagreed with them.

You know, my first thought today when I heard the news was, it wasn't just the passing of a man, but you worry that it's the passing of an approach to politics that doesn't go with today's sort of jangling discord that we've seen. And I miss that. I miss his voice and voices like his, although his was unique, who really did have such respect, not just for people, but for the process by which we get things done in this country, when we get things done.

And, you know, when he spoke on the set, he brought that wisdom and that sensibility. And man, we need voices like that today.

COOPER: Yes. Yes. There's so many nights where I think to myself, oh, I wish we had David Gergen on the program. And when I read what his daughter had written a while back, I was so moved to learn what he was going through, the struggle he was facing. And --

AXELROD: I know.

COOPER: -- that he was still surrounded by love and by his family who supported him through it.

David Axelrod, thank you so much.

AXELROD: Yes.

COOPER: Again, David Gergen was 83 years old. What a life.

We'll be right back.

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[20:56:44]

COOPER: Well, this Sunday marks 40 years since Live Aid, the global music concert that raised money for famine relief in Africa. Also this Sunday, the CNN original series "Live Aid: When Rock 'N' Roll Took On The World."

CNN's Bill Weir talked with one of the key figures, Bob Geldof.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Music fans had never seen anything like it. A mega concert on two continents with the world's biggest acts singing to save the world's hungriest children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please send your money in.

WEIR (voice-over): David Bowie refused to play Live Aid unless his set included a news clip of African famine. And as stadiums watched in stunned silence, the phone lines exploded.

BOB GELDOF, CO-FOUNDER, BAND AID TRUST: After Live Aid, we got the, in today's money, the equivalent of about $480 million within a week.

WEIR (voice-over): And none of it would have happened without Bob Geldof.

(SINGING)

WEIR (voice-over): The biggest hit of his Irish band, "The Boomtown Rats," is a song about an American school shooting. But the images out of Ethiopia shook him deep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just watching that Ethiopian thing. This, I think, this is gross.

WEIR (voice-over): And since he was so plugged into the London scene, his urge to do something became Band Aid.

(SINGING)

WEIR (voice-over): This inspired USA for Africa and We Are The World, which inspired Live Aid. And through it all, Geldof remained the profane conscience of Rock 'N' Roll.

GELDOF: Don't go to the pub tonight. Please stay in and give us the money. There are people dying now, so give me the money.

WEIR (voice-over): 20 years later, Live Aid had megastars on 11 stages and their fans in the streets, all pressuring G8 leaders to relieve African debt.

(SINGING)

WEIR (voice-over): It worked. And today, his mission continues.

GELDOF: I said, I swear to you, every penny you give will go to someone who needs it in Africa. 40 years later, not a single cup of coffee, not a single phone call has come out of any of the monies that come to us through Band Aid, Live Aid or Live Aid. Not a penny.

WEIR (voice-over): But he tells me that all nostalgia died the day the United States announced the end of USAID.

ELON MUSK, TESLA OF CEO: This is the chainsaw for bureaucracy. Chainsaw. GELDOF: Elon Musk cackling with his stupid (INAUDIBLE) hedge trimmer. The richest individual ever seen in history declared war on the weakest and most vulnerable people of our world. That's what a bully does. That's what a coward does.

WEIR: You know, the moments in this documentary that made me the most emotional was remembering a country that could rally around starving children on the other side of the world.

GELDOF: Yes.

WEIR: And that was cool and was part of the MTV generation and it was easy to get swept up in this. And how far we seem from that today.

GELDOF: Yes. Musk said that the great weakness of Western civilization is empathy. No, dude. Empathy is the glue of humanity. We cannot exist in isolation. We cannot.

Literally, we die. We require the function of society. That's what we need. He's wrong in every case.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COOPER: "Live Aid: When Rock 'N' Roll Took On The World", premieres Sunday at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now. Have a great weekend. I'll see you Monday.