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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

CNN Finds Photo Of Trump With Ivanka By His Side, Talking To Epstein; Interview With Rep. Rohit Khanna; DOJ In Talks with Ghislaine Maxwell About Potential Meeting; Judges Vote To Oust Alina Habba As NJ's Interim U.S. Attorney; AG Bondi Blasts Move, Says She's "Removed" Her Replacement; Afghans Suffer In Wake Of U.S. Aid Cuts; Heavy Metal Icon Ozzy Osbourne Dies At Age 76. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 22, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: You think, I think his legacy will be there was only one Ozzy Osbourne. No one was like him.

Now we know he was battling a series of health issues. In 2020, he revealed his Parkinson's disease diagnosis. In 2023, Erin, he told "Rolling Stone" that he just wanted to perform one last time. This is what he had to say, "If I can't continue doing shows on a regular basis, I just want to be well enough to do one show where I can say, 'Hi guys, thanks so much for my life,' that is I'm working towards and if I could drop down at the end of it, I'll die a happy man."

And as you said, Erin, he was able to do just that. He just performed in his final weeks.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Amazing, Elizabeth, thank you so much. And thanks so much to all of you.

AC360 starts now.

[20:00:47]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, a CNN exclusive, newly unearthed videos and photos of then citizen Trump and Jeffrey Epstein together. This, as some House Republicans defy Speaker Mike Johnson over the Epstein issue.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio insists that no one has died because of the Trump administration dismantled USAID. We went to Afghanistan to find out, and what we discovered was shocking.

And remembering Ozzy Osbourne, the legendary, often outrageous heavy metal legend turned reality T.V. star, he is dead at 76. I'm going to speak with his friend and fellow musician, Henry Rollins.

Good evening, John Berman, here in for Anderson. We do have breaking news tonight, new video and photos that shed light on President Trump's ties to Jeffrey Epstein. They were all unearthed by K-Files Andrew Kaczynski and his team.

Take a look. This is then citizen Trump and Jeffrey Epstein in 1999. This video has never been seen in this context before. It shows Trump talking to Epstein just before models hit the runway at the Victoria Secret Fashion Show in New York. First Lady Melania Trump, before she married the future President can be seen there as well.

I should point out that allegations that Epstein sexually abused underage girls did not surface until 2005 years after this video was shot.

Now, this is Jeffrey Epstein attending Trump's wedding to Marla Maples in New York City in December of 1993. In this photo, you can see Epstein entering the Plaza Hotel for the wedding. Although, we have known that Trump and Epstein were friends during this time period, this is the first time it has been reported that Trump actually invited Epstein to his wedding.

And there is a photo from a few months earlier, this is Donald Trump with two of his children talking to Jeffrey Epstein at the opening of the Harley Davidson Cafe in New York in October of 1993. You can see Ivanka there, she would have been just about to turn 12 years old.

Again, all taken years before allegations surfaced against Epstein, but they show the depth of the connections between the two men.

On Capitol Hill today, the Jeffrey Epstein saga basically shut down half of Congress until September, a story that President Trump desperately wants to go away and literally says no one cares about caused House Speaker Mike Johnson to send the House home early for a summer recess rather than hold a vote on releasing Epstein information. That's an unusual form of not caring. This is how the Speaker justified it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The President has made a request to the courts in the grand jury, testimony in the files there, for example, and the court should turn that over, and that will be a continuing and ongoing quest.

Now, what we refuse to do is participate in another one of the Democrats' political games. This is a serious matter. We are not going to let them use this as a political battering ram. The Rules Committee became the ground for them to do that. We're not going to allow them to engage in that charade anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So the Speaker there accusing Democrats of playing games, but you might say he is the one taking the ball and going home. And as for the claims this is fueled by Democrats, it is Republican Thomas Massie leading the call for a vote that will now not happen until September at the earliest.

Behind closed doors, shortly beforehand, the Speaker and his leadership team made the counts to House take case to House Republicans that the Trump administration needs time to deal with the Jeffrey Epstein issue. But that did not stop Congressman Tim Burchett, also very much a Republican, from forcing the House Oversight Committee to vote on a motion to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell.

That motion passed, the panel is expected to subpoena Maxwell as expeditiously as possible. That's according to a committee source, and on an incredibly busy day of Epstein related news, that was actually the second major headline on Ghislaine Maxwell.

A few hours earlier, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche posted that he was reaching out to Maxwell's attorney to see if she would speak with federal prosecutors, and wrote, in part, for the first time, the Department of Justice is reaching out to Ghislaine Maxwell to ask, what do you know?

Now, to be clear, it is not really the first time the Justice Department showed interest in what Maxwell knows. She was arrested and charged by the DOJ in July of 2020, during President Trump's first term and prosecuted, convicted and sentenced during the Joe Biden presidency.

She is currently serving 20 years for conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein. Deputy Attorney General Blanche, I should point out, was President Trump's personal lawyer in his own criminal trial over hush money payments before being appointed to the Justice Department. The President was asked about all of this in the Oval Office.

[20:05:19]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Your Deputy Attorney General has reached out to Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney asking to do an interview.

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes, I don't know about it, but I think it's something that would be -- sounds appropriate to do, yes.

REPORTER: Do you have any concern that your Deputy Attorney General is your former attorney would be conducting the interview given your past relationship?

TRUMP: No, that is no concern, he's a very talented person. He's very smart. I didn't know that they were going to do it. I don't really follow that too much, it's sort of a witch hunt, just a continuation of the witch hunt. The witch hunt that you should be talking about is they caught President Obama absolutely cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Witch hunt you should be talking about -- as the President tries to regain control of the narrative, and his biggest allies in Congress are working to give him the time to do just that, many of his supporters, both inside and outside the Beltway, they're just not moving on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CANDACE OWENS, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: What is Trump hiding? Why is he going down like this over Jeffrey Epstein? Trump is playing games. Yes, I'm sorry. He is flat out playing games right now. What is the connection between Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump? Because clearly there is something here that gives him pause.

NICK FUENTES, HOST, "AMERICA FIRST" PODCAST: You bury the Epstein files, as if that's not bad enough, you're going to lie to our faces, tell us it's a Democrat hoax. You're lying. You know you're lying. You're lying to our face. You know we know you're lying. You don't even care. You're just giving us the finger and rubbing it in our faces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, a lot to go over with "The New York Times" White House correspondent, Maggie Haberman.

Maggie, nice to see you this evening. First, I just want to get your reaction to the K-File reporting we just saw. These photos of Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump together. Jeffrey Epstein at the wedding to Marla Maples. You know, you've reported on Donald Trump for a long time. Is it clear to you how close these men were

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look from people I've spoken to, they were fairly close. You know, I understand that the President has since said that they didn't know each other well in 2002 he told the magazine that, I think it was "New York" Magazine that he was a terrific guy, and praised him. They had a falling out not long after that but, you know, you can -- the photographs do show a story. They were around each other enough. They were around each other a decent amount. You know, I don't know how one would measure the proximity.

The issue for the president is that his supporters have been raising questions about Jeffrey Epstein for many, many years, and he himself did in the context of Bill Clinton at the beginning of 2015.

BERMAN: And Maggie, I was reminded that in your wonderful book "Confidence Man", you wrote that President Trump was asking about Ghislaine Maxwell during the first term after you know she was arrested, what exactly did he want to know?

HABERMAN: Sure, so, there was this moment, as you remember, John, at a coronavirus briefing, where the President said that he would then President said that he wished her well when he was asked about her arrest, and that confused even some of his own allies, what exactly that meant. Later, a couple of days later, I believe it was in an Oval Office meeting with some advisers. He was talking about a "New York Post" item he had seen, where someone was quoted talking about whom Ghislaine Maxwell might have information about. And I think they were suggesting that she did.

The President asked advisers if they had seen that item, and then said, she say anything about me. And, you know, again, this is something that, as he says, he's not really following it. It's a witch hunt. At some point, it was on his mind enough. It is not something he himself has talked about that much in the last several years. I want to make that clear. It's mostly been driven by his advisers, many of whom are now top appointees and his government, but this is a case where they have unleashed, you know, a lot of questions about Jeffrey Epstein, and it's now coming from both inside and outside of the administration.

BERMAN: How much do you think the President cares about what's going on in Congress, and the fact that Speaker Johnson basically sending people home early for the rest of the summer, until September, so they don't and can't vote on Epstein issues.

HABERMAN: Knowing Donald Trump, the likelihood is he was quite appreciative. You know, I don't think that Mike Johnson is doing that without the White House's knowledge. I don't think that they want to keep talking about this. Now, we've, you know, we've seen that. I think they're hoping that there is something that moves away from this issue. But, you know, the reality is that the White House, or I should say the administration, is making decisions that just keep digging deeper into talking about this.

BERMAN: Yes and I want to ask you about that, Maggie, because it does seem -- to the extent that this isn't going away, if one thinks this isn't going away or hasn't gone away yet, why is it that the White House hasn't been able to control the narrative, particularly with their base, in ways that in the past they have?

[20:10:08]

HABERMAN: Because this is a particular narrative that suggests -- as you suggested in some of the clip that you just played, that President Trump who ran as an outsider and you know, was certainly an outsider to Washington. But he actually was something of an insider in certain corridors of power in New York for a very long time. And that, you know, this underscores -- it's not just about Epstein, although certainly there is, you know, Epstein was a sex trafficker of underage young women and that is something that Trump supporters have been talking about for a very long time as one of, you now, the worst things that one could do.

So, that component but there's also the component that it puts Trump inside the establishment and you know, as Trump has often said, I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for you, this raises questions about that. That's part of why it is it is lingering.

BERMAN: Maggie Haberman great to see you tonight. Any chance to talk about "Confidence Man", a wonderful book is always welcome for me, thank you.

All right, with us now, California Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, who is leading this bipartisan effort to force a vote on the Epstein files. We mentioned earlier that Speaker Johnson will shut down the House early for August recess to avoid that vote, which, if passed, would require the Trump administration to release "all unclassified records, documents and investigative materials related to Epstein." Congressman Khanna, thanks so much for being with us. You know, House Speaker Johnson says that he wants to give the White House space to deal with the Epstein issue. But why do you think he sent Congress home early for the summer?

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): He doesn't want to embarrass the members of his own caucus, and he knows that the resolution would pass. I mean, the reality is we have 11 Republicans, Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, Nancy Mace, Tim Burchett, of course, Thomas Massie, who has been courageously leading this. I don't think they've ever in my entire nine years in Congress, sponsored any legislation that I've introduced.

So, this is something that he knows his base wants. It would overwhelmingly pass. And so, he's literally closing Congress because he doesn't want to vote on our bill or any bill or any amendment related to Epstein's -- the release of the Epstein files.

BERMAN: How connected do you think President Trump is to this decision?

KHANNA: Well, I'm sure that the White House said, don't do it. And here's why I know that the White House is involved. He introduced a nonbinding sense the House resolution as a counter to Thomas Massie and my resolution saying, look, the sense of the Congress is that we should release these files. And Massie and I got a little concerned saying, maybe that will be their way out instead of passing the resolution with teeth, they'll just pass this non-binding one.

Well, he doesn't even want to bring that up onto the floor and that leads me to believe that the President simply does not want him to have any vote on any bill or any amendment regarding Epstein, but this issue is not going away.

BERMAN: I want to play you what the house speaker had to say about the measure that you and Congressman Massie are pushing, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: Thomas Massie could have brought his discharge petition any time over the last four-and-a-half years. Over the last four years, the Biden administration, he could have done that at any time. And now he's clamoring as if there's some sort of timeline on it. It's interesting to me that he chose the election of President Trump to bring this, to team up with the Democrats and bring this discharge petition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Congressman, why now and not before?

KHANNA: Well, one, with respect to my friend, the Speaker, I mean, does he think Marjorie Taylor Greene is trying to conspire against the President? Does he think Lauren Boebert is trying to conspire against the President? Nancy Mace, Tim Burchett -- these are some of the President's strongest allies. The reality is the President raised the stakes. Pam Bondi raised the stakes. She said that there's an Epstein client list. Then she walked it back and said, no, no, those are -- I was just talking about the Epstein files, the President, the Vice-President ran on releasing all of this, and they have created a trust deficit.

Now, I don't know what's in those files. Maybe there's nothing incriminating, but many people believe its protecting rich and powerful men, the donors of people to politics, people who played golf with politicians. And we need to have a release now, given the stakes that this President has created for trust in government.

BERMAN: The House Oversight Committee, which you are a member of, has voted to subpoena Ghislaine Maxwell, Chairman Comer, told Manu Raju. I'm just learning that it should be issued the subpoena within the next two days. What questions? If you get to talk to her, what questions do you have for her?

KHANNA: Well, I'd want to know who were the other people who were implicated in this sex trafficking saga? Can she give a list of names? Where are the documents? Who all does she know that was interviewed?

And by the way, if were finally exercising a subpoena power and I'm glad that we are, why don't we have the Attorney General come and explain to the American people where these files are? What files exist? What the roadblocks are to the release?

[20:15:12]

The one thing, though is, this is not a silver bullet because Maxwell, of course, was indicted for perjury and she's seeking a pardon. So, while I think it's helpful that she will testify, what we really need is the files and the witness interviews.

BERMAN: Congressman Ro Khanna, thanks so much for being with us.

KHANNA: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: All right, Coming up, what is next inside the Department of Justice on Jeffrey Epstein? We will look into that.

And later, remembering Ozzy Osbourne and his epic career, I'm going to speak to a friend of his.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:20:04]

BERMAN: So, this evening, as the Epstein drama plays out on Capitol Hill, the Justice Department continues to work toward unsealing grand jury testimony in the Ghislaine Maxwell case.

The judge in the case has set a deadline of next Tuesday for the Department to provide more material to support their request. And this comes as CNN has learned that Maxwell will oppose the unsealing of the testimony. With us now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller and former federal prosecutor, Alyse Adamson. And before we get to the grand jury testimony, John, we just spoke to Congressman Ro Khanna, who, among others, is calling for the release of the Epstein files by the Department of Justice. What exactly are we talking about here? Is there some file cabinet with folders in it? And who gets to decide or who can control when that information is released?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Okay, so really good question. Because we all picture, you know, banker's boxes stacked up the Epstein case. Not so, I mean, if there was an Epstein file per se, it lives in Sentinel.

Sentinel is the FBI's computer system. It's their electronic case management system. And a case like the Epstein case, all the 302s, that's the FBI form that records what somebody told them in an interview or an interrogation, all of the search warrants, the returns on the search warrants, the leads that came in. Everything about this case is contained in that file in Sentinel.

Who can see it? Agents who worked on the case, agents in that particular squad. Access might be very restricted to a file like that and who controls it? The Director of the FBI and the Attorney General of the United States would control what could or shouldn't be released from that file.

BERMAN: And in theory, they could release some of this information as opposed to the grand jury testimony where they have to ask a judge or opposed to Ghislaine Maxwell's, you know, an agreement where she would have to sign off on.

MILLER: Yes. So they could, that's completely within their control with a "but" and the "but" is there's material in there that by their own policies could not be released. That's victim names, witness names, people who came into the case who are not charged with a crime, a lot of things like that.

But, John, right after the blow up, when they released those files that the bloggers in the conspiracy theorists said contained nothing, the Attorney General got very angry with the FBI and said, I want the whole thing and I want it now. So, they engaged in this massive file review, people working day and night, overtime, weekends, redacting what needed to be redacted in case it was to be released. And when they were done with the file review, instead of releasing it, they said, we're going to put out a one-page statement.

He wasn't murdered. He committed suicide in jail. There is no list of clients. There's privacy issues, and we've investigated every possible angle and found every piece of paper and we're not saying another word, which has only done what?

BERMAN: Caused people to ask a whole lot more questions.

MILLER: Exactly.

BERMAN: All right, Alyse, the grand jury testimony asking for the release of that. How strong are the legal arguments to release this?

ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, I mean, I think the quick answer is we don't really know because the government didn't advance very many legal arguments and that's exactly what the judge said in his recent order. The government essentially asked for their unsealing, and the judge said, no, no, not so fast. These are secret proceedings, just so everybody knows.

There is a rule, Rule 6 (e), which governs grand jury proceedings, says they're presumptively secret. What happens in a grand jury stays in the grand jury. And there needs to be these special circumstances, these compelling public interest for a judge to ultimately release them. None of that was laid out in the government's initial filing. The judge has now given the government until July 29th to detail their legal arguments.

Now, there is a public interest here, clearly, but the judge has to balance that with the potential for harm. Harm for the witnesses who may or may not have testified, harm for the victims. We know there are tons of underage victims in this matter. And then, of course, harm to the defendant herself. Ghislaine Maxwell is still appealing her conviction and as you already noted, is going to oppose the unsealing of these documents.

So, while we don't know precisely what the government is going to argue, they already have strikes against them.

BERMAN: All right, John Miller, Alyse Adamson, thank you both so much for being with us.

We do have more breaking news tonight. The President's former personal attorney, Alina Habba ousted as New Jersey's interim U.S. attorney by a group of federal judges who put a federal prosecutor in the role for a time, but Attorney General Pam Bondi quickly changed that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:29:17]

BERMAN: So, breaking news tonight, in a dispute that has suddenly erupted between the Justice Department and a group of federal judges, at the center is President Trump's one-time personal attorney, Alina Habba, whom he appointed as interim U.S. attorney for New Jersey back in March. Now, that appointment was only for 120 days, which meant by law, a panel of federal judges needed to extend Habba's appointment this week if she were to stay in office pending Senate confirmation.

It is usually a pro forma process, but today, in an extraordinary move, not unprecedented, but extraordinary, those judges declined to keep her in the job and instead appointed a career prosecutor, Desiree Grace, who served in a key role underneath Miss Habba to take over. And tonight, Attorney General Pam Bondi essentially said not so fast and announced that she has removed Desiree Grace. Here to explain what all this means is CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid and former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman.

So, Paula, you know, can explain exactly why the judges did what they did and why the Attorney General did what she did?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, John, this is just the latest, in a series of confrontations between the Trump Justice Department and the federal judiciary. Here, Habba ran out the clock on her appointment.

Now, while she's been in office, there have been a lot of questions about her qualifications for this role. Some of her conduct on the job when it comes to her qualifications, she has never been a prosecutor. We know she was, of course, a personal attorney for President Trump. But when she wasn't representing him in court, she was on the courthouse steps criticizing prosecutors, criticizing judges.

[20:30:49]

So for those of us following this closely, it's not expected that these judges were going to extend her appointment. It was a little bit of a surprise though that they used this rarely used power to appoint their own candidate, her first deputy. So then we saw the Attorney General step in and try to reframe this entire situation.

Instead of making it about Habba's qualifications, instead making it about rogue judges and politics. This is something we've seen repeatedly from this administration when judges do not side with them. So here by removing or at least trying to remove this candidate, she's sending a warning shot to other judges who might have to make a similar decision and also appeasing the boss, who we know from the past few weeks is not terribly happy with the Justice Department right now.

BERMAN: So what about that, Harry? What do you think of this argument for the Attorney General who says that these judges are interfering with the president's core Article 2 powers?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: It's really misconstrued, John. Look, first of all, it's completely conventional. They advanced her as the nominee, she didn't get support at that point. Judges do step in, happens all the time, and it's unusual. I wouldn't say even close to unprecedented to not pick the person who's in there at the time because judges have their own interest here.

The reason they have this power in this situation, they want to put in someone professional, impartial, that they can rely on and they'll be before them. And as Paula's saying, we've had a really checkered record. Habba comes in saying, I hope I can use this position to turn New Jersey red. Maybe the single most inappropriate comment I've ever heard from a prospective U.S. attorney.

And according to the New York Times, she has shattered morale there, gone after many Democrats. So it's no surprise and in no way speaks of some kind of political battle that the judges would say, you know, while we're making the appointment we want to have people that can run the office in a professional, regular way.

So that really is fairly routine. I would say, the thing that is unprecedented is for the department to then return fire in this brass knuckles way and say, OK, we're just taking you out and firing you first assistant. And we're now in this ongoing battle. That, I've never seen before.

BERMAN: You know, Paula, first of all, the president, generally speaking, couldn't have who he wants as nominee is when he gets -- if he gets Senate confirmation of them, which hasn't happened here. But how, you know, how isolated is this given that a lot of the president's appointments have been on interim basis?

REID: So when it comes to U.S. attorneys, we just saw a similar situation. I believe it was last week in northern New York, where judges declined to extend Trump -- the administration's pick, but they didn't do what they did here, which is select their own candidate. Instead, the administration is trying this work around to extend that candidate.

But look, before we get too into the weeds there, take a step back. You hit the noun head here. The Senate is where these are supposed to be confirmed. And so far, Trump, even though the administration put up a whole slate of nominees early on, they haven't gotten a single one confirmed. So instead, these folks are playing out the clock, ending up in front of judges.

And what's unique about Trump's selection is the nature of his nominees. There's a huge focus on loyalty, not so much of the traditional credentials. So really, in terms of going forward, the long game they should be playing here is working their allies in the Senate to broker some sort of deal to get confirmations done that way, because they're going to have a tough time if these folks keep coming up before judges.

BERMAN: Very quickly, Harry, what happens if the judges keep appointing people that the Attorney General keeps firing?

LITMAN: We're in a tug-of-war, and we're not sure. But look, there's a political process and a legal process. Judges do the legal one. That's whom they've chosen. If the administration just decapitates every one they choose, we're in an unprecedented mess and bloodletting in the District of New Jersey.

Paula Reid, Harry Litman, great to see you both tonight. Thank you.

LITMAN: Thanks.

BERMAN: Next, the Trump administration claims no one has died from USAID cuts. What a CNN investigation in Afghanistan found coming up.

[20:35:00]

Plus, former Black Flag frontman Henry Rollins remembers his friend, the godfather of heavy metal and the Prince of Darkness, Ozzy Osbourne, who died today at the age of 76.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: The Trump administration dismantled USAID earlier this year, the agency responsible distributing American aid overseas. Under President Trump, the U.S. has canceled $1.7 billion in aid contracts for Afghanistan, of which $500 million had yet to be dispersed, and other countries have also cut aid to Afghanistan. Secretary of State Marco Rubio insists that no one has died because of the cuts.

[20:40:13]

CNN's Isobel Yeung traveled to the country to investigate if and how these cuts are impacting people. A warning, some of the images you're about to see are disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We're in the Taliban's Afghanistan. A nation now dealing with huge foreign aid cuts.

YEUNG: The clinic we're actually heading towards was, until just a few months ago, funded by the U.S. government. Now that the Trump administration has pulled the funding, a lot of people in this area are left with not even basic health care facilities.

YEUNG (voice-over): The U.N. estimates that an Afghan woman dies every two hours from pregnancy or childbirth. This clinic has now closed.

YEUNG: So this is where women are giving birth?

SAMIRA SAYED RAHMAN, SAVE THE CHILDREN AFGHANISTAN: Yes. You know, this is the only clinic in this area, and now it's gone.

YEUNG: Afghanistan has one of the highest maternal mortality rates in the world, right? What happens to these women now that the delivery room is gone?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It means that these communities don't have access. It means that women are going to be giving birth at home. Meaning more and more children are going to die during childbirth.

YEUNG: We were just talking to community leaders who were telling us that seven people have died since this clinic closed. And just a couple of days ago, a woman died in childbirth because there was nowhere for her to give birth.

YEUNG (voice-over): When we followed up, the woman's neighbors and family told us that if the clinic had been open and she'd had the support of a midwife, she would have survived.

Across Afghanistan, over 400 clinics have closed because of U.S. aid cuts. Millions of people were reliant on these clinics for health care. Now their only option is to travel hours, sometimes days, to public hospitals like this, where there's an influx of new patients.

The U.S. was funding doctors, nurses and essential drugs here, but now that's also gone.

YEUNG: How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has the capacity for just one baby. And we have under ours three babies here.

YEUNG: Yes, it's crowded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, crowded, yes.

YEUNG: Is this normal?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Normal? Not normal. When they cut the aid here, our mortality rate, about 3 or 4 percent.

YEUNG: So three to 4 percent more --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rise --

YEUNG (voice-over): -- babies are dying since the U.S. cut the aid?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes (INAUDIBLE).

YEUNG: Wow.

YEUNG (voice-over): Malnutrition has soared here. 9.5 million people are severely food insecure. Several NGOs previously funded by the U.S. are now turning away many people in desperate need of food.

Mohammad Omar has severe malnutrition and meningitis. The family are poor and were only recently able to bring him the long distance to this hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): When did he become like this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): Early in the morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): You said it was diarrhea at first and then it got worse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): Yes, it stated with diarrhea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): Since when has he not been able to eat?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): It has been a long time since he could eat on his won.

YEUNG: Hi. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Can I ask what your name is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): My name is Nazogul. He's my grandson.

YEUNG: How old is he?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): He just turned one.

YEUNG: What is his situation? What has the doctor said? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doctors say that a microbe has infected his brain. He's unconscious now. You can see that the child's condition is very bad.

YEUNG (voice-over): In the middle of speaking, we looked over and realized the child had stopped breathing.

YEUNG: Is he breathing? Is he breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need CPR (ph).

YEUNG: You need CPR. Sorry, move, move, move.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language)

YEUNG: He died?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

YEUNG: My God.

YEUNG (voice-over): Mohammad's mother returns to the room, and the most devastating news.

(CRYING)

YEUNG: This is just one family of so many thousands of families that are having to live through this, and it's utterly, heart-wrenchingly devastating.

YEUNG (voice-over): It's impossible to definitively blame one single factor for Mohammad's death. He was suffering from a range of serious illnesses. But aid cuts have dealt a devastating blow here.

[20:45:03]

Canceling aid to Afghanistan has long been a goal for Congressman Tim Burchett.

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R), TENNESSEE: $5 billion in cash.

YEUNG (voice-over): Claiming $5 billion U.S. taxpayer have gone directly to the ruling Taliban, a designated terrorist group. But the U.S. government's own watchdog says it's more like $11 million. The vast majority of money goes to those it's intended for.

YEUNG: Are you intentionally misleading the American public when it comes to inflating these figures so that you can get what you want?

BURCHETT: No, ma'am, I'm not. As a matter of fact, $11 million is still a whole lot of money to the average American. If it's one penny going to the Taliban, they'll hate us for free.

YEUNG: What would you say to -- I mean, there are millions of Afghans who are going to be affected by this.

BURCHETT: I would say you're going to have to make it on your own.

YEUNG: Hundreds of clinics across the country have now closed down. I literally watched a baby die from malnutrition. What would you say to these families who are living through desperate circumstances, devastated by the results of your actions?

BURCHETT: I think it's horrific, but it's not due to my actions, ma'am. We don't have any more money. We're borrowing that money. And again --

YEUNG: But it is due to your actions. I mean, you have been advocating for this for the last couple of years.

BURCHETT: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. It's not our response -- we have Americans in the same position. We have Americans that are having trouble with childbirth. We have Americans going hungry, and you want us to borrow money and send it overseas.

YEUNG (voice-over): With the U.S. turning away, the fate of Afghans is now left in the hands of their own government, the Taliban, who say they're capable of running the country without foreign aid. They denied our requests for an interview.

But it's the country's most vulnerable, women and children, who stand to lose the most, now facing an isolated future without the support of those who once came to their aid.

Isobel Yeung, CNN, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BERMAN: Wrenching.

The U.S. State Department did not respond to CNN's request for comment on this reporting.

Next, remembering legendary heavy metal rocker Ozzy Osbourne.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:52:00]

BERMAN: Ozzy Osbourne, the legendary frontman for Black Sabbath and a reality TV star, has died just weeks after reuniting with the band for a farewell concert in his hometown of Birmingham, England. The Osbournes say he was with his family and surrounded by love when he passed. Five years ago, he revealed he had Parkinson's disease.

Stephanie Elam has more on Ozzy Osbourne's life and legacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was called the Prince of Darkness, and for a half-century, British musician Ozzy Osbourne rocked heavy metal fans worldwide until his death at age 76, just weeks after taking what was called his final bow. OZZY OSBOURNE, HEAVY METAL ICON: I've been laid up for, like, six years, and it's so, you've got no idea how I'm feeling.

ELAM (voice-over): The Black Sabbath frontman reunited with his bandmates for a show called Back to the Beginning in his hometown of Birmingham, England.

OSBOURNE: Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

ELAM (voice-over): Performing with bassist Geezer Butler, drummer Bill Ward, and guitarist Tony Iommi for the first time in two decades, alongside other music legends Metallica and Guns N' Roses. His family issuing a statement saying during his final moments, he was with his family and surrounded by love.

Osbourne's charisma and wildness on and off the stage --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had I known it was a real battle, I would never have bitten into it.

ELAM (voice-over): -- transcended music and made him a cultural phenomenon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ozzy Osbourne.

ELAM (voice-over): Born John Ozzy Osbourne, he left school at 15 and said he found his calling after listening to the Beatles on the radio.

OSBOURNE: I can remember the first time I heard "She Loves You." That changed my life because I thought, that's what I want to do.

ELAM (voice-over): Osbourne became lead vocalist of the band that would become Black Sabbath in 1968 and pioneered a daring, genre- defining new sound. The heavy guitar and riff-based albums "Black Sabbath" and "Paranoid" captivated audiences in 1970.

As Black Sabbath's fame exploded, so did Osbourne's hell-raising behavior. He was fired from Black Sabbath for drug and alcohol abuse in 1979. Those same issues broke up Osbourne's first marriage and followed him for decades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you been tempted to go back to the drug usage?

OSBOURNE: All the time. When you're a drug addict, you don't stop being a drug addict because you stop taking them.

ELAM (voice-over): But Sharon Arden, the daughter of Black Sabbath's manager, helped get him back on his feet and encouraged him to go solo.

Osbourne's debut single, "Crazy Train," got the singer back on the rails. Ozzy and Sharon married in 1982, and Sharon managed his career for the rest of his life. Their love was on full display to an entirely new audience in the 2002 MTV reality series, "The Osbournes."

[20:55:02] Ozzy's dry, at times unintelligible, humor and relatable parenting challenges endeared him to millions. And the fly-on-the-wall look at the Osbournes' expletive-laden daily life shot the family to fame.

After years of speculation about his health, Osbourne revealed his Parkinson's disease diagnosis in an interview with Good Morning America in 2020. But Osbourne was committed to making more music, and three years later, he won two Grammys for his album "Patient Number 9", bringing his Grammy total to five. Three as a solo artist, and two with Black Sabbath.

In all, Osbourne made over 20 albums, and is among the elite group inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame twice. From Prince of Darkness to reality TV show dad, Ozzy Osbourne was a man, a myth, and a legend.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Stephanie Elam.

Now joining me tonight, Former Black Flag frontman Henry Rollins, a longtime friend of Ozzy Osbourne who also spent time with him on the road touring. Henry, you knew Ozzy Osbourne for decades, both as a fan and as a friend, and we are so sorry for your loss tonight. What will you remember most about him?

HENRY ROLLINS, FRIEND OF OZZY OSBOURNE: I will remember his honesty and the fact that I'm kind of a pal of his and also a friend of his. And the man you saw on stage was the guy that you got. He was the same person. He was genuine. And that, to me, besides the immense talent, is his enduring quality.

BERMAN: So you first met him back in the 1990s. I've actually seen YouTube videos of you talking about this, and it's pretty funny. What was your first interaction with him like?

ROLLINS: We were in one of those severe athletic backstage environments when you play the big stadiums. Narrow benches, lockers. And we're all just sitting there like -- because that's really not our scene. We're a much smaller band. And Ozzy comes barreling into the dressing room area.

He says, which one of you guys is Henry? I am. And he's like, my name is Ozzy Osbourne, man. I'm like, welcome to the tour. Play the PA's Leslie Wallman. Blow it up if you want to. Have a great time.

And he just kind of leads in a trail of cigar smoke. I was like, wow, that was cool. I'll remember that for the rest of my life. And we did two nights with Ozzy.

And we just had a great time. He was really -- he was great to us, great to me. I ended up talking with him quite a bit over the two shows. And this, I flew on the family jet, which was, you know, not my life. And he was just a great guy. And as I said, what you saw is what you got with that guy. BERMAN: It's so funny. I wish you could see your face when you're telling stories about Ozzy and imitating him, because your face just lights up when you do Ozzy Osbourne --

ROLLINS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- which I think speaks to who he was and what he meant to you. Look, he was known for the extremes, right? The drug problems. You know, biting the head off of a bat and doves, urinating at the Alamo, snorting a line of ants with Motley Crue, you know, as one does. I mean, how does that persona fit with the man you knew?

ROLLINS: I think, you know, the fact that Ozzy might have found himself without his clothes, wandering into the pool in a hotel in Tokyo at 3:00 in the morning, I'll never do that. And so he did that for me. I just -- I love that kind of behavior.

It's not what I do. But when he did it, I just think it was incredibly cool. And so, I think he's just a wild guy who meant no harm.

BERMAN: So Ozzy once told you that he thought that when he dies, it would be something stupid like tripping and breaking his neck on something. But instead he passed, you know, just about two weeks after he actually did a show, you know, what was a farewell show with Black Sabbath. And he got to say goodbye to his fans on his own terms. I mean, how poetic is that?

ROLLINS: I think it's immense. First off, the show's done in Birmingham, where Black Sabbath comes from. So all the lucky people at the venue had that moment. And then the rest of us, we get to see it online, but you still get it.

And the fact that he passed away so soon afterwards, this is not one of those things, well, we'll do two nights in May. There's not going to be that opportunity like next summer. You can't do it this fall. They did it, and then the man slipped away. And so the timing ends up being crazy.

And, you know, the four members of Black Sabbath, Geezer Butler, Bill Ward, Tony Iommi, and Ozzy Osbourne, have been friends since you -- before you and I have been alive, pretty much. And they got to be together, the four guys, one more time in front of fans who truly love them.

And it's a love letter from the audience to the band, and the band to the audience. And I don't think that could have gone better. It feels like two weeks later, the man is gone. And to do it in your hometown, I just think it's just perfect.

BERMAN: What a blessing for all of them.

Henry Rollins, thanks so much for being with us. And again, you know, our condolences to you.

ROLLINS: Thank you.

BERMAN: The news continues. The Source starts now.