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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

New Details On Deadly Mass Shooting Inside NYC Skyscraper; Deeper Dive On CTE Claim; Trump: "He Stole Her"; Trump On Epstein: "He Stole People That Work For Me"; Maxwell Offers To Testify Before Congress But With Major Conditions, Including Immunity; Pres. Trump Says First Lady Thinks Gaza Crisis Is "Terrible"; Israel Eases Aid Restrictions Amid Gaza Starvation Crisis; Israel Facing Growing Pressure Over Conditions In Gaza; Arkansas State Police Release Photo Of Person Of Interest In State Park Murders. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired July 29, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This statement about Trump was only published on North Korea's international newswire, not on their state newspaper, that regular people actually read, which may be a sign, Erin, that this is definitely to signal to foreign leaders much more than her own people. And as for President Trump, he is going to be in this region heading to South Korea in October for APEC. He'll meet with China's President Xi. He'll meet with South Korea's new president. So when he's in the region, could they try to set something up where there's a fourth Trump-Kim summit later this year. We'll have to watch.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Yes, we'll have to watch, it's incredible. All right, Will Ripley, thank you so much and thanks to all of you. AC360 starts now.

[20:00:38]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, as New Yorkers deal with the city's worst mass shooting in a generation, all we are learning about the investigation, the killer and the lives he took, including two men who died trying to protect others.

Also tonight, the President's new explanation for his break with Jeffrey Epstein, his fixation with his spa and lack of outward focus on Epstein's victims. We'll speak with a therapist who counsels some of them about how they are taking it.

And the latest from Gaza, on the mass starvation that is unfolding there in the growing pressure on Israel to do more to stop it.

Good evening, John Berman here in for Anderson, and we begin with all we have learned since a killer parked his car outside a Midtown Manhattan office tower, then walked in carrying a military style rifle and opened fire.

In the 26 hours since, more or less authorities have put together a picture of what happened, how the gunman made his way through the lobby, killing three people, intending apparently to reach the offices of the NFL but ending up on the wrong elevator, which took him to the 33rd floor, where he shot and killed another person. Then, with people doing the best they could to barricade themselves against the danger, he shot and killed himself. Authorities say he was 27 and left a suicide note, claiming he suffered from the degenerative brain disorder, CTE.

We are learning more about him, how he got his weapon and his upbringing as the son of an 18-year LAPD veteran. We're also learning a little about the lives he took.

Julia Hyman was murdered on the 33rd floor. She worked for the building's owner and had a passion for the real estate business. A former professor of hers at Cornell University, where she graduated five years ago, says her journey was, in her words, marked by determination, warmth and a strong commitment to learning.

Wesley LePatner was an executive at Blackstone, which is headquartered in the building. She was a Yale graduate, a trustee of the Metropolitan Museum Of Art, and known for her compassion and mentorship. She leaves a husband and two children.

Aland Etienne was a building security guard, one of three people killed in the lobby. A father, according to "The New York Times" of two school aged children. His brother told "The Times" he was a light in their lives. His sister says she could not stop thinking about her big brother's warm, inviting smile.

Finally, there's NYPD officer Didarul Islam, who came to the city from Bangladesh. His father's only son.

Late today, Officer Islam's body was taken from the Medical Examiner's Office under police escort. He served in the Bronx, but was working as an off duty security officer yesterday in Midtown Manhattan to support his wife and two young children and a third on the way.

And according to a staff memo, an NFL employee working in the building at its corporate headquarters was seriously injured but is in stable condition.

With us now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller. He's been talking to his sources all day long. John, what more are you learning about this shooter and a possible motive?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the motive seems to be centered around his idea that he suffers from CTE. When police searched the car, they found Zoloft, antidepressant medication. Zolmitriptan, which is generally associated with migraines and pain and an amount of cannabis, which could be recreational or could also be for pain relief or migraines. But his notes talked about CTE, particularly a documentary called. It was a frontline documentary about CTE and his impressions that the NFL's denial of this for years, according to his interpretation, is something that caused his suffering to be worse.

Going into that building. You know, you've seen the picture he's walking across that entryway with that long gun, and he walks into the lobby, spots the police officer, opens fire on him. At that point, when he wounds the NFL employee, that's the only NFL employee that he actually wounds, injures, or shoots. And he does it while he's aiming at the police officer. You see them both go down at the same time, likely from the same one or two bullets, and then he ends up in the wrong elevator.

It isn't clear, but authorities are looking at the theory that he was going to the headquarters of the NFL at 345 Park Avenue, and that it was his belief that that was the NFL building and that whatever floor he got off at would be the NFL, which is what led him to running into the open elevator, pressing the first floor, which was 33, and ending up in Rudin Management, where he literally went into hunting behavior, stalking people and opening fire.

[20:05:36]

BERMAN: So, this man was on a psychiatric hold as recently as last year. So, how did he get a gun?

MILLER: Well, he had a concealed weapons permit. He was able to purchase the 357 magnum, the Colt Python that was found loaded in the car in June, which is not that long ago. And a friend of his, identified as Rick, supplied him with the main part of that AR-15 rifle and then he built the barrel and the stock and the rest from that part that came with the serial number.

When they ran that and it came back to -- it was sold to Rick, Las Vegas Metro questioned him, NYPD, ATF, the FBI are on their way -- if not there now, to talk further about why did he give him that? Did he sell him that? But if you note in that suicide note, he left behind one of the last things he writes is "Tell Rick I'm sorry about everything." So, he may have had a clue that this was going to get his friend jammed up.

BERMAN: John, stand by for a second. I want to bring in former FBI Special Agent Bryanna Fox and CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Wackrow. John, obviously you've heard more about the details of the building and how the gunman got inside. What stands out to you?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: What stands out to me is just the ease of access that this individual had in bringing, you know, the Armalite rifle into the building and then launching his attack right away in the free flow that he had from the front of the building all the way. He'll pass multiple banks of elevators deep within the building to eventually stopping where he did. Now, we don't know why he stopped at that elevator bank that would eventually bring him up to the 33rd floor.

Some believe that because of the access control measures that are in place, that was a point of vulnerability. There was somebody coming out that the gates opened. The elevator door was there, and he sees that opportunity. But to me, just that that level of access and agility, he had to maneuver inside again is something that needs to be looked at. Now that we know this type of threat presents itself.

MILLER: One of the things I learned just before the show is when he opened fire in the lobby. People began running through the -- now, they have the stanchions there and they have the glass things that slide together and then come apart once you hit the sensor and it finds your authorized. People didn't take time to find their I.D. and touch that. They literally broke through the glass stanchions. So, after that, he just walked through the broken glass between them and went to the first elevator he could find in the wrong elevator.

BERMAN: There was nothing to keep him from the elevators, in other words.

Bryanna, when you look at the suicide note, his alleged grievances with the NFL saying he suffered from CTE, what does that tell you about his criminal profile?

BRYANNA FOX, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, obviously, we can tell his motivation was specific towards the NFL. That differs a lot from some other mass shooters where they seem to have a grievance towards society and they'll shoot at anyone they see coming down the road. But this was far more pointed. I would also note that in terms of his mental health and the profile, he certainly has had challenges and this has been going on for some time now, several years.

He was able to purchase a weapon. Nobody, including others around him, seemed to take note of that while they were aware he had weapons. He was, you know, under treatment involuntarily in the past. And yet there was no Red Flag Laws invoked, no extreme risk protection order that was apparently applied. I know that's what they're out there looking into in Las Vegas, but it seems like that that could be an avenue that should have been pursued and wasn't.

BERMAN: Yes, John Miller, let's talk more about Las Vegas, because the NYPD has two teams of detectives out there. New York's had a great relationship with Vegas Force. You've got a great relationship with the Vegas Department. What's going on there right now? What are they looking for?

MILLER: Well, they're looking to trace that weapon and figure out how the long gun got into his hands. But they're also going to look at what were those encounters that brought him to the hospital twice. Were there proper notifications in that he was issued a concealed weapons permit?

He was still working as an armed security person for a casino. He had been with Caesar's. He had moved to Horseshoe, and it was Sunday when he didn't show up to work. That they first encountered some kind of problem. And of course, we now know the day before that, he started driving across the country specifically to do this thing.

[20:10:17]

BERMAN: Jonathan, you mentioned briefly some of the security you now have, and we have new reporting in real time here from John Miller about the fact that there was really free access from the point of entry of the building to the elevators, because everything broke down there. What other questions do you have about high rise security? Look, we work in one here in Manhattan. WACKROW: Well, listen, first of all, let's give credit where credit is due. Since 9/11, the corporate security program, specifically here in New York City, has become the best in the world. These buildings are fortified to the nth degree, but it doesn't mean that they can't be improved and they're designed based upon current threat environment.

The thought that someone would be bringing in an Armalite rifle into the lobby of a Midtown Manhattan commercial building wasn't in the rubric of the threats. Workplace violence, handguns. That is a commonplace and there are protective measures there.

So right now, this is a seminal moment for corporate security programs here in Manhattan to go back and reassess, because the threat landscape has now changed. We know that this you know, this was a successful attack and property owners need to now go back and make sure that their programs are aligned to this new threat environment.

BERMAN: Bryanna, this trip, this drive from Nevada, this one way trip where he left and ended up Monday afternoon, double parked in front of this building in Manhattan. What does that tell you about him?

FOX: Right, the fact that he drove across the country, he had this bag with all of his prescription medications. It almost seems so different than this, you know, suicidal intention that he had. It makes me wonder that he really could have been experiencing some severe mental health issues that perhaps align with CTE. I think that we'll find out when the medical examiner takes a look at his brain, but he may have actually had a good diagnosis of himself.

BERMAN: All right, Bryanna Fox, Jonathan Wackrow, John Miller, thank you all. We are going to talk more about CTE with Doctor Sanjay Gupta, a practicing neurosurgeon. How likely is it or how common is it in young people, especially someone who only played football in high school.

And later, Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell offers to testify before Congress, but she wants something major in return. Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:17:05]

BERMAN: More now in the gunman who shot and killed four people last night in New York City office building. Tonight, as authorities pieced together a detailed picture of him, they are widening their investigation and digging into his past. The latest from CNN's senior investigative correspondent Kyung Lah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have got the report of gunfire across the street.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Former acquaintances of the shooters struggled to understand how the soft spoken football star they remember became the man who authorities say killed four people in New York.

WALTER ROBY, SHOOTER'S FORMER FOOTBALL COACH: I can't believe it. It's just, you know, even though I haven't seen the kid in, what, ten years? I just, yes, it's still -- I can't process that yet. It's tough, I want to, you know, sometimes I just want to, you know, I want to cry like anyone else.

LAH (voice over): Walter Roby coached him during his senior year of high school in the Los Angeles area. He's one of a half dozen former friends of the shooter who described him as friendly and talented.

ROBY: Easygoing, so, he was coachable, meaning you can ask him to do something, he would do it, or you can ask him to correct something, he'll correct it. I mean, he was a humbling kid. He was always had a smile. Yes, coach. No coach. And I'll go get it done, coach.

LAH (voice over): He was a standout football star at the two L.A. area high schools he attended, appearing in the local papers and on T.V. described as his team's biggest weapon.

One former teammate who didn't want to appear on camera, said he was a great teammate and person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't cause any problems actually at all in the locker room or on the field. He was just a guy that really enjoyed the sport and not problematic at all.

LAH (voice over): Coach Roby says, the horrifying crime doesn't match the young player he knew.

ROBY: For me, it was like, you know, the disbelief, no, this can't be. It's not somebody I knew or had affiliated with that this has happened.

LAH (voice over): Investigators are looking into claims in a suicide note that linked the attack to a possible brain disease from his years playing football.

JESSICA TISCH, NYPD COMMISSIONER: In that note, Mr. Tamura claimed to be suffering from CTE, possibly from playing high school football, and he blamed the NFL.

ROBY: In the season that I had him, I did not see it. I do remember an ankle injury that affected him a game or two. Other than that, that's about all I knew from an injury standpoint.

LAH (voice over): Two former high school teammates who played football with the shooter at his previous high school say he did suffer head trauma, one recalling he didn't attend practice due to a concussion. The other saying concussions were a regular occurrence among players.

After high school, friends say they lost track of their teammate. Records show he moved getting a gun license in Nevada and working in private security in the Las Vegas Area, and was most recently working at the Horseshoe Casino, where he failed to show up for work on Sunday. ROBY: How do I put the young individual that I knew and the individual that I had seen the image in and just wonder, you know, is there something I could have done, you know, is there more I could have done after the kid moved on. So, that's the tough part, right? That's the tough part.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH (on camera): And there are a lot of people we're talking to here in the Santa Clarita area, and people in the North Valley who really do want an answer, and they may get at least closer to that. We're getting this bit of news, John, from the New York City medical examiner, who says that they will be examining the shooter's brain as part of the additional testing for the complete autopsy record.

They do have expertise in-house, and they will be relying on it to perhaps get a little bit closer to the answer on this CTE question -- John.

20:20:32

BERMAN: Kyung Lah, thank you very much for that. For more on the shooters claim that he did suffer from CTE, I'm joined now by CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, is it possible for someone to actually diagnose themselves with CTE?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, not really. I mean, in fact, the only way you can definitively diagnose this is at autopsy after someone has died. But, you know, John, people can have strong suspicion of this.

If you've had a history of repeated blows to the head you develop some of these symptoms that are oftentimes associated with CTE. People might start to believe, look, is this me? Is this a possibility for me as well? If you look at some of the studies, for example, there was a study that came out in 2023 people under the age of thirty, 17 to 29, who all worried that they had some of these symptoms, they donated their brains to science after they died, obviously, 40 percent of them tested positive for CTE.

So, you can have a strong suspicion it may be a validated suspicion, but you cannot know for sure.

BERMAN: You're talking about the symptoms, what symptoms are we are we referring to here?

GUPTA: So, you know, it really sort of is in these broad buckets of cognitive symptoms, behavioral symptoms. So, you look at things like memory loss sometimes that's confused for Alzheimer's, if someone is older; impulse control problems lack of judgment, depression, suicidal behavior. Even as people get older they may develop movement problems. Tremors sometimes can be confused with Parkinson's.

So CTE, you know, a relatively new diagnosis, John, as far as these things go, and it's often a great mimic of other things, which can make it very confusing for people.

BERMAN: The suspect wasn't someone who had played college or pro football. And so, many of the examples we've seen are of pro football players who pass away than we see their brains post death. Do we have evidence that that high school players are at risk of CTE?

GUPTA: Yes, there is evidence of this and it's, you know, it's a little surprising to me as well. You typically think of someone like Aaron Hernandez, who as you know, John was 27-years-old when he passed away in prison, died by suicide. This gunman, also 27 years old.

But you look back sort of at some of these studies and you find that even people as young as 17 years old, 17 to 29, there was a study done showing that 152 brains were donated to science people, all under the age of 30, and 40 percent of them, they found CTE, again, the youngest person being 17 years old. So, it is possible.

One thing we are learning is that there is probably a vulnerability for some people. Some people may have a short career, a few blows to the head still develop CTE compared to others who have a long career, like an NFL career. Lots of blows to the head, they never develop CTE, so trying to figure out who is who, why some people develop and others don't. That's what a lot of people are trying to figure out.

BERMAN: Still so much to learn. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

BERMAN: Up next, what the President is now saying about why he broke off his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein and all it leaves unsaid. And later, an update on the growing food disaster in Gaza.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:28:24]

BERMAN: "He stole her." The President said those three words today aboard Air Force One on the way back from golfing in Scotland. That's a matter of fact. "He stole her."

What he meant by those words is open to interpretation and because the "he" refers to a former friend, sex predator Jeffrey Epstein and the "her" is one of many underage women Epstein allegedly victimized.

The President's words today also invite scrutiny. They are part of his new explanation for why he broke off a long and some say, warm friendship with Epstein, which the President first rolled out yesterday. He did it with Britain's Prime Minister right next to him, sitting expressionless while he weighed in on the sex offender he wishes people would stop talking about so much, and Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's accomplice in the recruiting, grooming and trafficking of underage young women as sex slaves, an obscene number of them.

Three weeks ago yesterday, in the memo that touched off this current uproar, the Justice Department estimated the number of Epstein's victims at more than a thousand. Keep that in mind as you listen to the President.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Very easy to explain, but I don't want to waste your time by explaining it. But for years, I wouldn't talk to Jeffrey Epstein. I wouldn't talk because he did something that was inappropriate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The question that, of course, raised is what was inappropriate? Did then citizen Trump, for example, get wind of Epstein's inappropriate contact with minors? After all, he did tell "New York Magazine" back in 2002, "It is even said he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." Is that the kind of inappropriate he means? Because that would certainly put someone beyond the pale for most people.

Actually, no. Was it that he merely came to believe that his old pal was, "being a creep", as a White House statement phrased last week? Because, again, it would be totally understandable for anyone to be put off by even a hint of that. Except, no, it wasn't that kind of inappropriate either by the President's lights, not even the kind of inappropriate we were previously led to believe caused the falling out, namely, Epstein outbidding him for a piece of Palm Beach property which might be considered beyond the pale in some circles.

[20:30:37]

But it wasn't that either. No. Here is why the President said he broke it off with the creepy, possibly property poaching, sex offending victimizer of allegedly more than 1,000 human beings.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I wouldn't talk, because he did something that was inappropriate. He hired help. And I said, don't ever do that again. He stole people that work for me. I said, don't ever do that again. He did it again.

And I threw him out of the place, persona non grata. I threw him out, and that was it. I'm glad I did, if you want to know the truth.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: So the truth is, according to the President, Jeffrey Epstein poached employees. A well-known bridge too far for any sex offender. The President, though, left out the sex offender part.

And he did the same today, even when prompted.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said yesterday your falling out with Jeffrey Epstein was over him taking some of the workers from your business. But your administration in the past said that you threw him out because he was a creep. So can you explain that discrepancy?

TRUMP: Well maybe they're the same thing, you know, sort of a little bit of the same thing. But no, he took people that work for me, and I told him, don't do it anymore. And he did it and I said, stay the hell out of here.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: Again, the President could have mentioned something about why he considered Jeffrey Epstein a creep. Perhaps even the crimes he pleaded guilty to and the many more he was charged with before he died. He might have said a word or two about the role his accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, played.

She is now appealing her conviction for her role in Epstein's crimes. Especially when, as you'll hear in this next extended clip, one of those victims may have been a then underage Trump spa attendant named Virginia Roberts, later Giuffre. She said she was recruited by Maxwell, then forced by her and Epstein to have sex with a series of famous men, including, she said, Britain's Prince Andrew, which he denies.

In 2021, the two settled her civil lawsuit against him in the matter out of court. Ms. Giuffre died by suicide in April. The President did not mention that today.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Epstein has a certain reputation, obviously. I'm just curious, were some of the workers that were taken from you, were some of them young women?

TRUMP: Some of them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were some of them young women?

TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say, but everyone knows the people that were taken. And it was the concept of taking people that work for me is bad. But that story's been pretty well out there. And the answer is yes, they were.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they were young women?

TRUMP: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did they do?

TRUMP: In the spa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) in the spa?

TRUMP: Yes. People that worked in the spa. I have a great spa, one of the best spas in the world in Mar-a-Lago. And people were taken out of the spa, hired by him. In other words, gone.

And other people would come and complain, this guy is taking people from the spa. I didn't know that. And then when I heard about it, I told them, I said, listen, we don't want you taking our people, whether it was spa or not spa. I don't want to him taking people. And he was fine.

And then not too long after that, he did it again. And I said, out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, did one of those stolen, you know, persons did that include Virginia Giuffre?

TRUMP: I don't know. I think she worked at the spa. I think so. I think that was one of the people, yes. He stole her.

And by the way, she had no complaints about us, as you know. None whatsoever.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

BERMAN: There is that sentence, he stole her, which, if it doesn't say enough already, also speaks loudly by omission. He says nothing about what happened to her, only what happened to him. To the President's way of thinking, if his words are to be believed, that was Jeffrey Epstein's cardinal sin, taking something, in this case, a human being, who belonged to him. He stole her.

Now, setting that aside for a moment, this new justification for the breakup raises questions as well about the timeline for this all. Giuffre fell into Epstein's orbit in 2000. Yet two years later, in that New York magazine piece in which he talked about Epstein liking young women, the President also called him a terrific guy and a lot of fun to be with.

A year after that, he was, according to Wall Street Journal, sending Epstein 50th birthday wishes, running again, according to the journal. A pal is a wonderful thing. Happy birthday, and may every day be another wonderful secret. The President both denies sending that and is suing the paper over its reporting.

[20:35:06]

Another year later, in 2004, the two battled over a piece of real estate and reportedly broke ties after that, with no word until yesterday of this new explanation for the falling out and continuing silence about what his old friend did to anyone not named Donald Trump.

Meantime, Ghislaine Maxwell is now offering to cooperate and testify before Congress, but with major conditions, including immunity. That's according to a list of her demands sent to the House Oversight Committee by her attorneys. A committee spokesperson today rejected the idea of giving Maxwell immunity.

My next guest is a trauma therapist certified in domestic and sexual violence who has worked with a number of Jeffrey Epstein's victims over the years from both the Florida and New York cases, starting when they were as young as 18 years old, and in some cases, continuing to this day.

Randee Kogan joins me now. Randee, nice to see you. How have your clients been holding up with the Epstein story once again being so prominent in the news?

RANDEE KOGAN, THERAPIST FOR EPSTEIN VICTIMS: They're feeling violated again. They're feeling re-victimized again. They are not given the opportunity to heal in private. Everywhere they look, it's on their phone, whether it's a headline, whether it's social media, and they feel like there's nowhere to escape. They can't find peace to heal.

BERMAN: What was your reaction to the President's comments today suggesting that Epstein, quote, "stole employees from him?" He was specifically asked about Virginia Giuffre, a young woman and sex trafficking victim of Epstein's who died by suicide earlier this year.

KOGAN: Virginia Giuffre's death really hit a number of the survivors hard because she represented a voice that they didn't have at the time. So it was quite impactful when Virginia took her life. As time went on, they felt like they're being constantly re-victimized over and over again when people are having these conversations that don't revolve around justice because they don't see how this is justice, how Epstein is back in the news again. What is it all for? And how does it help them?

Nobody is humanizing these survivors, and they're constantly suffering emotionally, mentally, every time he is brought up again.

BERMAN: How devastating would it be for your patients if Ghislaine Maxwell were be -- to be given a pardon or some kind of other deal?

KOGAN: It would be emotionally -- it would emotionally destroy them. One of my clients today, she's a survivor, and she said if Ghislaine Maxwell gets out and is given immunity, I have no more faith.

BERMAN: I have no more faith. You talked about the failure to humanize the victims. When you hear language like the President today saying he stole employees, he stole her -- Virginia Giuffre is one of the employees that President Trump said Epstein stole from him -- is that the kind of language you're talking about?

KOGAN: That's exactly the kind of language I'm talking about. It dehumanizes these women. They have been trying to heal for 18 years, and every time they're on the road to recovery, something new comes out in the news, something new, a meme in social media, a skit on a TV show, or a stand-up comedian bringing up Epstein. It's everywhere.

So when they hear the fact that they're not being humanized, even by the President, it -- they feel defeated.

BERMAN: The saga has obviously been playing out really for decades and decades. This -- the initial arrest of Epstein, the sweetheart deal in Florida, the prosecution in New York, the suicide, the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. What's the whole experience been like for your patients? KOGAN: It's been a very rocky road. They are trying so hard to pick up the pieces from the beginning. And every time they feel they've gotten somewhere, they get hit again. And that's what it feels like. It feels like a hit.

When Virginia Giuffre passed away, that was very difficult for them. They questioned, is this their path? Is this what happens when you speak out, when you use your voice? So it really impacted them greatly.

And then after that, Epstein was all over the news again. So it's been -- they have no opportunity to heal in private. And it's not fair. They're human beings. They are women who are trying to put their lives together and move on past this victimization, and nobody's letting them.

BERMAN: I hope people remember that.

Randee Kogan, we appreciate your time tonight. Thank you for what you do, and thanks for being with us.

KOGAN: Thank you.

[20:40:03]

BERMAN: Up next, what President Trump said today about the starvation crisis in Gaza as the death toll rises. The New Yorker's David Remnick will be with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: President Trump said today that both he and the First Lady are deeply affected by the starvation crisis in Gaza. As health officials there say, the death toll keeps rising.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

TRUMP: She thinks it's terrible, and she sees the same pictures that you see. And that we all see. And I think everybody unless they're pretty cold-hearted or worse than that, nuts. There's nothing you can say other than it's terrible when you see the kids.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

[20:45:17]

BERMAN: On Monday, the President said the U.S. will set up food centers in Gaza to help those facing starvation and malnutrition. And he disagreed with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who said over the weekend, there is no starvation in Gaza.

The latest on the crisis now from CNN's Jeremy Diamond. We do want to warn you, some of this video is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Desperate and hungry, thousands of Palestinians scramble onto aid trucks that have just entered the Gaza Strip. They grab what they can, anything for the chance to feed themselves and their families.

This sea of desperation captured this weekend, driven by months of Israeli restrictions on aid distribution in Gaza. Amid global outrage, Israel is now reversing course, ceasing fire in parts of Gaza for 10 hours a day and opening designated secure routes to allow more aid trucks to flow in. Steps humanitarian aid organizations have sought for months.

More than 200 trucks of aid were distributed in Gaza on Monday, according to Israel. But many more will be needed to even begin to alleviate this crisis. As children scrape bits of flour from the beds of those trucks, the world's leading global authority on food security says the worst-case scenario of famine is now unfolding.

Israel also allowing airdrops into Gaza for the first time in months, sending Palestinians running to grab what they can. But as a rifle is fired into the air, a reminder that it is often the strongest, like gangs who steal and resell food at higher prices, who are first to eat.

"I didn't get anything," this elderly lady says. "I was crushed in the crowd."

While some manage to grab a full box, others emerge with just a few items. Flour, oil, pasta.

AHMAD FAIZ FAYYAD, GAZA RESIDENT (through translation): This aid is disgraceful. We are not dogs to be made to run after aid. People fought over it. We'd rather die of hunger with dignity than die in humiliation and filth.

Palestinians are also still getting shot and killed while trying to get aid. Prompting more outpourings of grief.

"Look at them, they died," this man says. "They went to Netzarim to get food. Every day he would go get food for his children."

The two men were brothers among 14 people killed by Israeli forces near an aid distribution site run by the American Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. No comment from the Israeli military.

In the hospital's morgue, this body is a testament to an entirely different weapon. Starvation has claimed at least 83 lives in Gaza just this month, including 10-year-old Noor Abu Salas (ph).

"She became like this because of hunger, thirst and the siege. The siege imposed on us by the Israelis," her uncle shouts. "This is a Palestinian child." He says, "The world would be outraged if only she had been born anywhere else."

(END VIDEO TAPE) DIAMOND (on-camera): And John, amid all of this, the Palestinian Health Ministry says that the grim death toll of 60,000 Palestinians killed since the beginning of the war has now been reached. And while the health ministry does not distinguish between civilians and combatants, they do say that 30 percent of the victims of this war are children.

Now, the Israeli military, for its part, they have repeatedly dismissed figures from the health ministry, saying that they are exaggerated. John?

BERMAN: All right. Our thanks to Jeremy Diamond for that report.

With us now, David Remnick, editor of The New Yorker. David's latest work is titled, "Israel's Zone of Denial: Amid National Euphoria Over the Bombing of Iran -- and the Largely Ignored Devastation in Gaza -- a Question Lurks, What is the Country Becoming?" It is a wonderful, expansive article that raises all kinds of questions.

David, nice to see you. President Trump says that he and the First Lady are deeply affected by the images they see of starvation inside Gaza. You're just back from Israel. How was that situation seen on the Israeli side? How much talk of starvation was there?

DAVID REMNICK, EDITOR, THE NEW YORKER: Well, until very, very recently, I would say there was next to no portrayal of the suffering of the Palestinian people in Gaza on the most important medium in Israel, and that's television. With the distinct exception of the newspaper Haaretz, which has a relatively small circulation, with the exception of their reporting, I'm talking about in Hebrew, and some smaller left-leaning outlets.

[20:50:10]

On a nightly basis, you would not know that there were incidents like the one that took place when I was there just a few weeks ago, when a 500-pound bomb was dropped on a cafe filled with civilians, mainly women and children, who went there for a cool drink and the possibility of something to eat and maybe an Internet connection.

This is a kind -- and 40 people were killed in a 500-pound bomb. This kind of thing is happening all the time. Haaretz had a remarkable report describing how Israeli soldiers were shooting at Gazans who were coming to get aid. People shot down for the terrible crime of wanting to eat and get some water to drink.

And the reaction to this article was just constant denial, not least in the prime minister's office. And you saw this sense of denial starting at the top. It's extraordinary for Benjamin Netanyahu to stand in front of the world and deny what's in front of everybody's eyes.

This war is just a calamity above all for the Palestinian people and the ramifications of it in terms of loss of life, the flattening of Gaza, the rage that undoubtedly will come out of it, the political prospects that have -- that were never good to begin with that have been dimmed. I mean, there is no doubt that Hamas set off this particular chapter in this 100-year long calamity and conflict with its attack on October 7th.

But the way Israel has conducted this war and how long it has conducted it and with the brutality that's been going on, and now this prospect of famine and the starvation that's already upon us is just beyond dreadful. And to deny it, beginning with the prime minister, is hideous.

BERMAN: So the fact that President Trump has now said that he and the First Lady see the pictures, they see the starvation there, I wonder what impact you think that will have and how is or what is the influence of this administration in Israel right now?

REMNICK: The administration has enormous influence and it's -- I suppose it's terrific that he is affected by these pictures at long last. But this is also the president of the United States that allowed the Israeli government to think that it was a possibility and would receive at least implicit if not explicit sanction to go on destroying Gaza and turn it into a Riviera and to start thinking in terms of resettling Gaza and permanently annexing the West Bank.

That all along, this president has given these kind of signals. Yes, he says this today, but he said radically different things earlier. He is, whether you like it or not or believe it or not, Donald Trump is enormously popular in Israel and has enormous power. If he wanted to, he could force Netanyahu's hand much more quickly than he has and force the hand of Hamas and end this war now.

BERMAN: Israel has claimed that the purpose behind the blockade was to pressure Hamas to release the rest of the hostages and come to the table. Obviously there has been international pressure now against Israel over the humanitarian crisis. The United Kingdom just said today that it will recognize a Palestinian state in September unless Israel agrees to a ceasefire in Gaza.

So when Israel sees that, the move from the U.K., previously France, how much does it care? And is there any sense that any of his actions, if you would suggest it, have to an extent backfired?

REMNICK: Good question. Benjamin Netanyahu has made an enormous show of showing how much contempt he has for these political gestures and political statements by first France and then the United Kingdom. He has said that all this is, is a reward for the terrorism of Hamas.

And when he speaks, people in Israel listen. And I -- one of the tragedies of this terrible chapter is that the image of Israel has been so diminished that it's changed politics in places like the U.K., the United States and France. And, you know, I can't emphasize enough, Donald Trump could end this now and force Netanyahu's hand. He can't just --

BERMAN: Yes.

REMNICK: -- afford to say this is affecting him emotionally.

[20:55:03]

BERMAN: We will see what the next steps are, if there are next steps. Again, the article is "Israel's Zones of Denial." It is wonderful. It is in the New Yorker right now.

David Remnick, thank you so much for being with us.

REMNICK: Thanks for having me, John.

BERMAN: Next, the latest on a person of interest in the double murder of a couple hiking in Arkansas with their two young daughters. The daughters thankfully survived.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: As the manhunt for the killer of a married couple in Arkansas heats up tonight, state police have released a photograph showing the back of a man they are calling a person of interest. Earlier, they put out a sketch of the suspect, describing him as a white male with a medium build. Police are asking anyone who was inside the park at the time to check their photos and videos for possible images of that suspect.

That is all for us tonight. I'll see you back tomorrow morning at 7:00 alongside Kate Bolduan for CNN News Central. In the meantime, the news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.