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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Trump on Summit: "I'll do Whatever I can to Stop the Killing"; Source: V.P. Vance, A.G. Bondi, FBI Director Patel and Others Discussed Epstein Case at White House Wednesday Night; FBI Fires Senior Officials At Odds With Trump Administration; Inside One Pastor's Crusade For Christian Domination In The Age Of Trump; Young Democrats Are Trying To Win Over Gen Z Voters, Just Like Charlie Kirk. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired August 07, 2025 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: ... continuing to build out the site but those plans are now on hold, as I said, this two weeks to evaluate it. This development from the judge coming as we have new video of federal agents launching a surprise raid in the parking lot of a Home Depot in California.
The agents jumping out of Penske trucks. This is new footage of that angle, and you can see it. Penske is now speaking out, responding, "Penske strictly prohibits the transportation of people in the cargo area of its vehicles under any circumstances. The company was not aware that its trucks would be used in today's operation and did not authorize this."
We'll see where this goes. Thanks so much for joining us. AC360 starts now.
[20:00:40]
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Tonight on 360, after weeks of tough talk and a day before new sanctions are supposed to hit, the President eases up on Vladimir Putin. The question is why?
Also tonight, the latest on new efforts to get information from the administration on the Jeffrey Epstein case. And later, he's now a Justice Department official. But back on January 6th, he was one of the mob at the Capitol. And tonight, new video has surfaced of him urging others to "kill."
Good evening everyone, John King here in tonight for Anderson.
It has now been 200 days since Donald Trump began his second term, having promised to end the war in Ukraine on day one of it and though, he would later go on to claim that he was being "a little bit sarcastic" when he said it, that pledge, which Trump made at least 53 times before he took office, remains unfulfilled.
And, keeping them honest, with the Trump-Putin summit, potentially just days away, so does the President's recent talk about getting tough on his Russian counterpart, some of it just in a matter of hours.
Earlier today, an American official telling CNN the President likely would not meet with Putin unless Putin first sat down with Ukraine's President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. By late today, here's what the President said when asked whether Putin still had to meet that condition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, he doesn't. No, no.
REPORTER: So what do you think that means --
TRUMP: They would like to meet with me and I'll do whatever I can to stop the killing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The President was also asked about this demand, which also seems to be going by the wayside.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Is your deadline still standing for Vladimir Putin to agree to a ceasefire tomorrow, or is that fluid now that --
TRUMP: It's going to be up to him. We're going to see what he has to say -- well it's going to be up to him -- very disappointed, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The President, you'll remember first gave Putin 50 days to reach a deal or face steep tariffs and other U.S. sanctions. That was on the 14th of last month, then two weeks later, the President shortened it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There's no reason in waiting. I want to be generous, but we just don't see any progress being made.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Tomorrow is now the deadline. But as you heard, the President did not exactly reaffirm that fact when given the chance.
And perhaps, under most circumstances, it would not seem unusual for a president, any president, to try to smooth over certain differences with an adversary just ahead of a diplomatic encounter. But this President has now made a habit of giving time frames and setting deadlines where Vladimir Putin is concerned, then not following through.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you trust President Putin? TRUMP: I'll let you know in about two weeks.
REPORTER: Do you still believe that Putin actually wants to end the war?
TRUMP: I can't tell you that, but I'll let you know in about two weeks, within two weeks, we're going to find out very soon, we're going to find out whether or not he's tapping us along or not.
I'm disappointed in President Putin very disappointed in him. So, we are going to have to look -- and I'm going to reduce that 50 days that I gave him to a lesser number.
REPORTER: Do you still believe that Putin is serious about peace, given the events overnight in Ukraine? And if that bombing doesn't end, are you considering new sanctions on Russia?
TRUMP: So, we are thinking that -- very strongly that they both want peace, but they have to get to the table.
I have my own deadline. I have my own deadline, and we want it to be fast.
I am very disappointed with President Putin. I thought he was somebody that meant what he said and he'll talk so beautifully, and then he'll bomb people at night.
With Russia -- but we'll discuss that maybe a different day. But were very, very unhappy with them, and we're going to be, doing very severe tariffs if we don't have a deal in 50 days. So, based on that, we're going to be doing secondary tariffs if we don't have a deal in 50 days.
And I certainly wouldn't want to put secondary tariffs on Russia but if they were put on it would not be very good for them.
REPORTER: In your mind, is Ukraine doing enough to get this, to get this --
TRUMP: I'd rather tell you in about two weeks from now, I could answer that question better in two weeks or four weeks from now, I hope the answer is that he wants to get it solved. I'm disappointed in President Putin because I thought we would have had a deal two months ago, but it doesn't seem to get there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It's been this way. You just heard it there throughout the last 200 days. The deadline never comes and Russia gets more time to do what it does, which, as you can see, is target Ukrainian civilians over and over and over again.
As one senior European official put it in a report today from "The Washington Post", "For all the bluster, Trump has not put a single iota of pressure on Putin, yet, zero, zip." Or, as a Moscow paper put it today, "Putin has won," that was a headline in Moscow. And just as a reminder of the gap between presidential rhetoric and any real impact on Putin, here's the President himself on his social network after one of Moscow's deadliest attacks of the war.
[20:05:36]
"I am not happy with the Russian strikes on Kyiv. Not necessary and very bad timing. Vladimir, stop". That's the President saying enough is enough more than three months, several deadlines and lots of tough talk ago.
For more on all this, I'm joined now by the anchor of "The Source" and our CNN chief White House correspondent, Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, is it clear why the President is willing to sit down just with Putin doesn't want Zelenskyy first? At one point, it was maybe Trump-Putin, and then the three of them. Where are we?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's what we were just yesterday after this meeting with Steve Witkoff. And Steve Witkoff has gone to Russia now several times and had meetings. It wasn't clear what was going to come out of that. And then he leaves and we hear from the White House, there's a prospect of a meeting with Trump, which obviously is notable. It would be the first time they came face-to-face since Putin invaded Ukraine, and since Trump took office.
And so, what the White House said yesterday was kind of their vision for this was a sit down with Trump and Putin, wherever this is and then right after that, a trilateral summit with Zelenskyy in the room. Obviously, as they are trying desperately and the President has made clear he wants this to end.
But this has been the big question here of whether or not that was a precondition to this meeting, because Putin seemed really dismissive of it today, saying, basically, this is not likely going to happen, that I'm going to sit down with Zelenskyy, but he is ready to sit down with Trump.
And so, when we were brought into the Oval Office pretty abruptly today, I asked Trump about this and whether it would be a precondition. He made very clear -- no, that he is fine to just go and meet with Putin one on one, and then we'll see what happens.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So, last month, they lost 14,000 people killed last month. Every week is 4,000 or 5,000 people. So I don't like long waits. I think it's a shame and they're mostly soldiers, they're Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and some people from the cities where missiles are lobbed in and you'll lose 35 to 40 people a night, which is terrible.
But no, mostly it's soldiers, and you're talking about, on average, 20,000 a month -- 20,000 people are dying a month -- young, generally young people, soldiers. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: What Trump wants to happen here is very clear, he wants the war to come to an end. The question, though, I think that The White House is grappling with and whether or not they're prepared to show up at this meeting is, is Putin ready to end this war and is he actually in a -- in a real way? Trump himself has become pretty disillusioned with Putin's actions. He's been very vocal about that in recent weeks and months. And that's why there's that deadline tomorrow, which we still don't know what's going to happen with these secondary sanctions.
I do think there's a question of, if they go to this summit, which we are told could happen within days from now, what the outcomes of that are and what that looks like?
Obviously, Putin is someone Trump has met with many times. It's still not clear though, as of this hour, but they are working on making this summit happen very quickly.
KING: We'll keep watching it. Appreciate the great reporting. Thank you, Kaitlan Collins, and of course we will see Kaitlan at the top of the hour for "The Source."
And for more on this potential Trump-Putin summit, here's CNN's senior international correspondent, Fred Pleitgen. He's in Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A grand welcome to the Kremlin for the president of the United Arab Emirates, a place Russian leader Vladimir Putin says could be the site of the summit with U.S. President Donald Trump.
(VLADIMIR PUTIN speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN (voice over): "I think we will decide later." Putin says. "But this could be one of the suitable venues."
But while President Trump says he wants his meeting with Putin to be followed by a trilateral summit also involving Ukraine's President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Putin, who often questions Zelenskyy's legitimacy, not willing to commit.
(VLADIMIR PUTIN speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN (voice over): "I've been repeatedly saying that I, in general, have nothing against it," Putin, says "It's possible, but before that, certain conditions should be created and unfortunately, we're still far from creating such conditions."
And the U.S. and Russia are also far from agreeing on how to end the Ukraine conflict. While President Trump says he wants an immediate 30- day ceasefire, the Russians want a comprehensive peace agreement requiring a long diplomatic process, even as the fighting continues. The Putin-Trump summit idea was agreed after Presidential Envoy Steve Witkoff's visit to Moscow on Wednesday. A senior Kremlin aide saying the idea came from the U.S. side.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN (voice over): "It was an offer made by the Americans that we consider quite acceptable," he says. "That is it."
[20:10:12]
On Moscow's streets, folks, saying they hope the summit could also be a starting point to mend U.S.-Russia relations.
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN (voice over): "I wish we could travel to the U.S. and Americans could travel to Russia," this man says. "I wish we could be friends and that trade would recover."
(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN (voice over): And she says, "I wish for peaceful skies over everyone's head so that everything is good for everyone."
(UNIDENTIFIED MALE speaking in foreign language.)
PLEITGEN (voice over): "Vladimir Putin always says the right things," this man says, "You should listen to him and respect him."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (on camera): You know, John, today the Russians have once again reiterated that they're not changing their stance on Ukraine, they, of course, have demanded that the Ukrainian's cede parts of their territory to Russia, that they essentially all but disarm and never join NATO, whereas the U.S. President has been saying what he wants is a ceasefire as fast as possible --John.
KING: Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much for that report.
And joining us now to discuss, our CNN global affairs analyst, Brett McGurk. He's a former Middle East and North Africa coordinator for the National Security Council.
Brett, you've been through many of these help prepare for many of these. Normally, if the two leaders are going to get together, the President of the United States and the President of Russia, especially two leaders, when one of them started a war, tried to steal another country, and is still trying to steal another country, you would have at least most of it worked out and maybe a couple of big issues that the two leaders need to make face to face.
Do you see any evidence that there are necessary preparations for to make it worthwhile to sit down with Vladimir Putin? BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: It feels a little rushed, and look, there's one objective for this summit, one objective -- is the outcome a ceasefire in Ukraine or not? That has been U.S. policy stated by President Trump repeatedly and consistently. The Ukrainians signed up to a ceasefire in March. Secretary of State Rubio in March said Russian reciprocity is now the key to peace, and since then there was nothing but Russian escalation of the war. The only outcome to make this summit a success is a ceasefire, other than that, it's a failure.
I've got to say a couple of things. You heard the from the reporting there, the Europeans are very concerned President Trump's going to throw away the leverage that's been building up on Putin. Look, I think Trump comes in here with a very strong hand. I led negotiations with the Russians on Syria, and some other issues, and one of my Russia experts said to me, the Russians approach a negotiation like a bear approaches a dance. It's like dancing with a bear, and they're the bear. They will determine how the negotiation ends.
I think here you've got to be the bigger bear, Trump's coming in with a lot of leverage. I think Putin is reacting to the new policy the President announced a few weeks ago, sanctions weapons through NATO to Ukraine. I think that surprised him a little bit. The strikes in Iran, Putin understands power. That was an assertion of American power.
Trump has a strong hand. And if he approaches this summit, if like, say, Reagan did in Reykjavik back in 1986, where he basically said to Gorbachev, no deal, because Gorbachev insisted on Reagan backing off on a Star Wars defense systems, that basically set the conditions for future deals.
So, if you go in strong and firm, it might be a failure. You got to be willing to walk away from the table.
KING: Willing to walk away--have you seen anything in President Trump's history that he'd be willing to walk away, and that explain it, that he wasn't ready? Because we know Putin has made very clear in recent days he still thinks Ukraine is his and his history is if you say he's actually feeling the pressure and there's some evidence of that, that he'll give you something, but he's not going to give you a full ceasefire.
MCGURK: If past is prologue, this summit is going to fail. I'm just saying I think there's potential here for an outcome. But look, the President has to go in with only outcome that's successful is a ceasefire. Anything short of that, you got to walk away from the table and try to get the ceasefire later.
I would not have this summit unless you're very confident that you're going to come out with a ceasefire. I'm not seeing that right now. But I mean, that is the goal is a ceasefire. Anything short of that and Putin will come in with all sorts of promises and maps and details and make it look like he's actually being reasonable. It's a ceasefire or not. If there's not a ceasefire, you have to walk away from the table.
KING: The President said, tomorrow is the deadline that he would do. We don't do a lot of trade with Russia now anyway. But he said he would do more sanctions. He would find other ways to penalize Russia.
Does he have to do that tomorrow, or can he say, well, we have this possible meeting on the table. I'm going to pause. Will he look weak if he doesn't do something tomorrow?
MCGURK: Yes, I think if you're heading into the summit, you want to build up your cards to use a term, President Trump used in that kind of train wreck of Oval Office meeting with Zelenskyy back in February. You want to build up cards, you want to fill up the reservoir and start to drain it. So, I would follow through with those sanctions. He said they're coming short of a ceasefire. We certainly don't have a ceasefire.
So yes, you want to build up the -- build up the lever as you head into a summit like this?
KING: I want to ask you, before you go about the other big global intractable at the moment, which is the Israeli-Gaza conflict. Prime Minister Netanyahu said today he had a meeting with the Security Cabinet, was asked, do you intend to take over all of Gaza? "We intend to," Netanyahu said. Should the United States stand by and let that happen?
MCGURK: Look, I think some of this could be a bluff because there's still some back-channel talks trying to get that hostage deal. I am concerned about that's not going to work. A military strategy like that is not going to work. If you just do the math, you need at least 50,000 effective reliable troops in Gaza to hold that ground. The Israelis can't do that. The Israelis have not trained up a Palestinian hold force.
[20:15:16]
So, I just that -- military strategy that is being discussed in Israel right now. It might be good leverage in a negotiation if you're trying to get a deal as an actual military strategy. I'm very concerned about it, which is why I understand Israel's chief of defense, General Zamir is a very, very well experienced officer, combat officer opposes it.
KING: Brett McGurk appreciate your coming in. Obviously, consequential days ahead.
MCGURK: Thank you so much.
KING: Up next, for us, an attorney trying to get the facts on the Epstein investigation and a therapist now helping survivors get through what has been an incredibly difficult month.
And later, a traditionalist pastor, his growing flock, his controversial views and friends, it seems in high places right here in Washington, along the Potomac.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:22] KING: When we left you last night, the Vice-President had just called news of a high-level damage control dinner on the Epstein scandal at his residence, "completely fake news".
Well, today we learned that meeting between Vance, the Attorney General, the FBI director and others still took place only at the White House instead. Beyond that, though, we don't know much about what happened about that meeting and much more.
For instance, we still don't know who signed off on moving Ghislaine Maxwell to a cushy, club fed prison camp because it's highly unusual for sex offenders to be sent there. Our next guest, attorney Norm Eisen, is the founder and executive chair of the Democracy Defenders Fund, which has just filed a Freedom Of Information Act request seeking answers to that question. Also with us, Randee Kogan, she's a trauma therapist who has worked with a number of Jeffrey Epstein's victims over the years, continuing to this day.
Randee, I want to start with you. This is a political conversation. It's a legal conversation, and I assume it's incredibly traumatic to the victims, to the survivors here. How are your clients holding up?
RANDEE KOGAN, THERAPIST FOR EPSTEIN VICTIMS: They're having a really hard time with the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell was moved. They felt like this little piece of justice that came out of everything they've gone through has been taken away from them. And they fear that if she was given immunity, that they'll have no more faith in the justice system.
KING: Norm, tell me exactly what you're seeking and do you believe, number one, that you have the legal right to these records? And number two, that the Trump Justice Department is going to cooperate?
NORMAN EISEN, FORMER COUNSEL TO HOUSE DEMOCRATS IN TRUMP'S FIRST IMPEACHMENT: John, we're seeking the documents and information about this shocking transfer of a convicted sex offender -- offenses against minors, John. She does not belong in a minimum security prison. So we want all the documentation, the Attorney General's involvement, Donald Trump's former personal criminal lawyer and someone who's close to him, Todd Blanche at the Department of Justice -- what was his involvement -- those at the Bureau of Prisons.
It doesn't make sense, and for that reason, it raises the most serious questions of whether there's a quid pro quo or a cover up here. It's devastating to the victims. But, John, every American wants this information. What is going on here? It's not right.
KING: Randee, how do your clients feel about more disclosure, whether its records about why Ghislaine Maxwell was transferred or the administration has raised the possibility of releasing grand jury transcripts, maybe the transcript of Todd Blanche the deputy A.G.'s interview with her? Do they want more disclosure or do they worry that disclosure is just going to rip the wound open again?
KOGAN: That's exactly what it is. They fear that it's going to rip the wound open yet again, because the wound has been ripped open several times throughout the 18 years, and it does not allow them the opportunity to heal in peace. They feel like they're forgotten. They feel like they were betrayed.
KING: Norm, to the point you're filing a FOIA request. You know that the House Oversight Committee run by Republicans says it wants to get to the bottom of this, says it wants to bring in witnesses, to get at what happened here. I'm assuming you're doing this because you do not have confidence that a Republican led committee is going to ask the questions you want asked. Do you think they're going to be, shall I say, selective in what they want to talk about?
EISEN: That's right, John, we have the greatest sympathy for the victims. In fact, one of the members of the legal team helped secure one of the largest settlements to account for the trauma that the victim suffered. But if we have selective or dishonest disclosure or if we have a cover up that will just aggravate an already intolerable situation.
And frankly, Donald Trump's allies in Congress, their involvement raises the same question as his former personal criminal attorney interviewing Ghislaine Maxwell. This should be done in a serious and sober and independent way. And by the way, we always make clear when we do this legal process in a way that redacts the names and identities and is sensitive to those victims. First and foremost, they're entitled to justice, not having Ghislaine Maxwell moved inexplicably to a minimum security prison.
KING: Randee, do your clients trust whether it's the President who called this -- all the focus on this a hoax and B.S., or the Congress as it tries to get answers here? Do they trust that the politicians will have the sensitivity as they explore this?
KOGAN: No and they've proven that they don't. There is no trust right now, there's fear, there is shame. There's no peace, there's no justice here.
[20:25:24]
KING: Randee Kogan, Norm Eisen, appreciate your thoughts tonight. We'll continue to stay on top of this, of course.
And up next for us, the FBI firing two senior officials for allegedly crossing the Trump administration. We're they just doing their jobs?
Also ahead, Pamela Brown has a fascinating introduction. She'll introduce to you a self-described Christian nationalist who wants America to become a Christian theocracy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:24]
JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Sources tell CNN tonight the FBI is firing two senior officials that the Trump administration sees as not sufficiently loyal. Brian Driscoll served as acting director of the FBI prior to Kash Patel's confirmation. Driscoll angered the White House by initially resisting the administration's effort to gather the names of agents who worked on cases related to January 6th. Sources tell CNN that Steve Jensen, the acting director in charge of the Washington field office, is also being dismissed.
Along with multiple agents perceived to have opposed the president. We should note FBI agents are not given the option to pick and choose their cases. And tonight this additional troubling development for federal law enforcement.
Last month we brought you the story of Jared Wise. Now a senior advisor at the Department of Justice and a former FBI agent. Wise was among this crowd on January 6th, 2021. He was charged with encouraging the mob that stormed the Capitol until the case against him was dismissed. That the first day President Trump took office. Well, NPR now has uncovered video of Wise from the day of the attack.
I want to warn you, there's harsh language and an obscenity, but we think it's important for you to hear. Wise is wearing a blue jacket. You'll see him on the far left corner of the screen. At times he goes out of the frame, but you can hear what he is saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED WISE, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SERNIOR ADVISER: You guys are disgusting. I'm former law enforcement. You're disgusting. You are the Nazi. You are the Gestapo. You can't see it. Because you're chasing your pension, right? Your pension. Your retirement, right? That's what runs your life.
Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. Yes. Fuck them. Yes. Kill them. Yes.
Kill them. Kill them. Get them. Get them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Wise was not convicted of any crimes relating to the attack. His trial was ongoing when the president granted sweeping clemency to all January 6th defendants on his first night back in office. But Wise did testify in his own defense, acknowledging using the words, kill him, as you heard there, but also saying that rant was, quote, just an angry reaction. The Department of Justice responded to the NPR story with this statement.
Jared Wise is a valued member of the Justice Department, and we appreciate his contributions to our team. Joining us now is former federal prosecutor Alyse Adamson. I want to start there with that video.
You work in the Justice Department as a prosecutor. You have a lot of relationships with the FBI, with people throughout DOJ. What does it say to them, the career workers, that somebody who is there now in a position reviewing cases stood out there and said, forgive me, people, fuck them and kill them?
ALYSE ADAMSON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, it says that the Department of Justice, as it stands now, has a flagrant disregard for the rule of law and for law enforcement. And I just want to be clear that I was actually at the Capitol on January 6th in my official capacity, and I saw this firsthand. Watching those images brought me back. It was an outrageously dangerous event.
And now here we are, four years later, and the same Department of Justice that initiated the investigations into this crime is now hiring on individuals, or an individual rather, who encouraged killing police officers on that day. I can't imagine what it is like for the line knowing that.
KING: Well, you understand the culture, and the formers usually keep in touch with some of the people who are still there. What does it do? Not just this, but also you have these two firings. Again, people who are doing their jobs, right? Investigating cases. In the case of Mr. Driscoll, well, why should we round up the name of all these asking questions saying, I don't think this is a good idea? Doing his job, right?
ADAMSON: Absolutely. John, it's terrible for morale. These people who are working on the line, these are career, career civil servants. They are not beholden to any political party. They are doing their job. They've sworn an oath to defend the constitution.
And so now they're seeing their superiors and even sometimes their line individuals being fired for doing their job. And as you said at the top, these folks don't get to choose what cases they're given.
[20:35:02]
They're assigned them. The January 6th is a perfect example. Prosecutors were given cases the next day and said investigate it. There was a large-scale crime captured on national television. What would have happened if they had refused those cases? They would have been fired for that. Same with the FBI. You're given an investigation and you do your job. That's all they're doing.
And now what are we seeing? People being fired for merely following orders. It is awful for morale. I talk to people at DOJ. They're scared to say anything. They're afraid. What happens if they take the wrong investigation now? It's going to have a chilling effect.
How is law enforcement supposed to do their job if doing their job can then ultimately lead to their firing if it is politically unpalatable?
KING: One of Driscoll's sins, according to the White House, was that he was reluctant to discipline an FBI agent after it came out that agent was involved in issuing a subpoena for the Mar-a-Lago investigation, the documents. What's he supposed to do?
ADAMSON: Exactly. I mean, I think that's where we stop the conversation. What is he supposed to do? That was a perfectly acceptable directive from a superior. What was he objecting? If he had problems, if he felt like it was unlawful, there is an escalation process. But at the end of the day, if you're going to disobey orders, you're going to get written up for it.
You could be terminated. And there is no evidence, there is nothing that has been reported about any of these investigations that lay any kind of foundation that they were incorrect, they were unlawful, and so the people working on them were just following orders. It's just -- I just -- I cannot wrap my head around all of this.
These folks have worked in the FBI, in the Department of Justice, for decades. They keep America safe. Their only, only duty is to uphold the rule of law. And now they're being penalized for it because the people in charge don't like the investigations.
KING: That's a lot of experience going out the door. Elyse Adamson, appreciate your insights tonight.
And when we come back, in his own words, one pastor says women should submit to their husbands and lose the right to vote. Some Republicans are listening in this age of Trump. Also ahead, young Democrats using Charlie Kirk's tactics to try to win over Gen Z voters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:42:00]
KING: Pastor Doug Wilson is a self-described Christian nationalist on a mission to make the United States a Christian nation and the entire world a Christian world.
Over the decades, he's built an international network of more than 150 churches. And last month, he opened a new one just three blocks from Capitol Hill with the Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, attending the service. Pastor Wilson preaches a strict interpretation of the Bible.
He believes women should submit to their husbands and not have the right to vote. In his view, abortion and homosexuality are criminal. He's been on the fringes of the religious right for decades, but now finds more of a mainstream Republican audience. CNN's Pamela Brown reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAMELA BROWN, CNN CHIEF INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Christ Church Senior Pastor Doug Wilson makes no apologies for his beliefs on God and country.
DOUG WILSON, SENIOR PASTOR, CHRIST CHURCH: I'd like to see the town be a Christian town. I'd like to see the state be a Christian state. I'd like to see the nation be a Christian nation. I'd like to see the world be a Christian world.
BROWN (voice-over): And now Wilson's controversial views as a Christian nationalist are gaining sway in the nation's center of power with the recent opening of his new church and high-profile parishioners like Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. BROWN: Is planting a church in D.C. part of your mission to try to
turn this into a Christian nation?
WILSON: Yes. So every society is theocratic. The only question is, who's Theo? In a secular democracy, it would be Demos, the people. In a Christian republic, it'd be Christ.
BROWN: Well, what would you say to someone watching this? Say, look, I'm a Muslim. Who are you to say your worldview is better than mine? That your God is better than mine?
WILSON: Well, if I went to Saudi Arabia, I would fully expect to live under their God's rules.
BROWN: But you said earlier that you want this to be a Christian world.
WILSON: Yes.
BROWN: So you want to supplant their religion with your Christian.
WILSON: Yes, by peaceful means, by sharing the gospel. There's a lot of work yet to do. I believe that we are working our little corner of the vineyard.
BROWN (voice-over): Wilson's little corner, a picturesque campus nestled on the outskirts of downtown Moscow, Idaho, is growing by the day with thousands of like-minded Christians. Parishioners of his church, known as Kirkers, own and operate several businesses downtown next to liberal college town stores.
WILSON: If it's true, if it's true --
BROWN: Why did he yell boo? Because it's good of you.
WILSON: Well, there you go.
BROWN: That's a regular day for you.
WILSON: That's not unusual.
BROWN (voice-over): A big focus of his Christian movement is on a patriarchal society where men are dominant and women are expected to submit to their husbands.
WILSON: Women are the kind of people that people come out of.
BROWN: So you just think they're meant to have babies. That's it. They're just a vessel.
WILSON: No, it doesn't take any talent to simply reproduce biologically. The wife and mother, who is the chief executive of the home, is entrusted with three or four or five eternal souls.
BROWN: I'm here as a working journalist, and I'm a mom of three.
[20:45:01]
WILSON: Good for you.
BROWN: Is that an issue for you?
WILSON: No, it's not automatically an issue.
BROWN (voice-over): Josh and Amy Prince, along with their four kids, moved here from Washington State.
BROWN: Do you see Amy as your equal?
JOSH PRICE, MEMBER, CHRIST CHURCH: Yes and no, in the sense that we're both saved by grace. We're absolutely on equal footing. But we have very different purposes, God-given.
BROWN: But do you see yourself as the head of the household, as the man?
AMY PRINCE, MEMBER, CHRIST CHURCH: He is the head of our household. Yes, and I do submit to him.
BROWN: So, like, moving here was ultimately your decision.
PRINCE: I was just going to say that. Yes, that's a great example.
J. PRINCE: That's a great example.
BROWN (voice-over): Wilson says in his vision of a Christian society, women as individuals shouldn't be able to vote. His fellow pastors, Jared Longshore and Toby Sumoter, agree.
TOBY SUMOTER, SENIOR PASTOR, KING'S CROSS CHURCH: In my ideal society, we would vote as households. And I would ordinarily be the one that would cast the vote, but I would cast the vote having discussed it with my household.
BROWN: But what if your wife doesn't want to vote for the same person as you?
SUMOTER: Right. Well, then that's a great opportunity for a good discussion.
BROWN: There are some who have gone so far as to say that they want the 19th Amendment repealed.
JARED LONGSHORE, EXECUTIVE PASTOR, CHRIST CHURCH: I would support that. And I'd support it on the basis that the atomization that comes with our current system is not good for humans.
BROWN (voice-over): And Wilson, a veteran himself, is unapologetic about his view that women shouldn't be in certain leadership or combat roles.
BROWN: Looking at the leadership page for Christ Church, it's all men.
WILSON: Right.
BROWN: Do you accept women in leadership roles in the church and government?
WILSON: In the church, no.
BROWN: Why?
WILSON: Because the Bible says not to.
JENNIFER BUTLER, FOUNDER, FAITH IN DEMOCRACY: Well, that's not what happens in the Bible. Women do lead all the time.
BROWN (voice-over): Progressive faith leader Reverend Jennifer Butler is concerned about Wilson's growing influence.
BUTLER: He is rapidly gaining in power. He has hundreds of churches established around the country. They actually literally want to take over towns and cities. And they have access to this administration.
BROWN (voice-over): Wilson is part of a broader Christian nationalist movement making inroads with the Trump administration, with a newly created faith office led by Evangelical pastor Paula White-Cain and people seen right outside the White House entrance praying and speaking in tongues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are standing on the soil of the White House, and we are declaring your word.
BROWN (voice-over): And now there's a monthly prayer service at the Pentagon initiated by Hegseth, Wilson's highest-level connection to the administration.
WILSON: It's not organizationally tied to us, but it's the kind of thing we love to see.
BROWN (voice-over): For his part, Hegseth has publicly praised Wilson.
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Now we're standing on the shoulders of a generation later, the Doug Wilsons and the others.
BROWN (voice-over): And as Wilson grows closer to the mainstream, the critics are also getting louder, accusing him and other Christian nationalists of wanting to create the dystopian world from The Handmaid's Tale, something he insists has never been his goal for society.
WILSON: I'm not a white nationalist. I'm not a fascist. I'm not a racist. I'm not a misogynist.
BROWN: How far off do you see a Christian nation, like a full-on Christian theocracy?
WILSON: Oh, 250 years.
BROWN: 250 years. WILSON: Honestly, that's, yes.
BROWN: That's what you see. But you do think it will happen?
WILSON: Yes, I do. We're not going to usher in anything ourselves. We're really genuinely pioneers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: John, we reached out to the Defense Department to better understand the relationship between Wilson and Hegseth, and a DOD spokesman said that Hegseth is a, quote, proud member of the network of churches founded by Pastor Wilson, and he also said that Hegseth, quote, very much appreciates many of Mr. Wilson's writings and teachings. John?
KING: Pamela Brown. Thank you so much. That's fascinating. Up next, how well-known online streamer Destiny is helping young Democrats try to win over Gen Z voters.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:53:25]
KING: The new season of South Park so far has mocked the president, the administration, and now a popular right-wing activist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello and welcome to the third annual Charlie Kirk Award for Young Masterdabaters. More and more young people today are learning to fight for America through master debation. We're here to honor the recent efforts of a brave young man who has been furiously master debating for the past several days and has won himself not only this trophy, but also, in all expenses, paid vacation to a beautiful five-star resort. He has proven himself the true champion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: The subject of the mocking there, Charlie Kirk, is the founder of Turning Point USA. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan went to one of their summits where a new liberal activist group and well-known online streamer is trying to leverage some of Kirk's own tactics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just got Kirk. Yes, I just got escorted in for Brian Kirk, baby.
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We're in Tampa, Florida, for Turning Point USA's Annual Student Action Summit. TPUSA is a voter-driving juggernaut for the Republican Party, led by 31-year-old Charlie Kirk.
CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINT USA: They're happy, that's why, you know, they haven't been on social media. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): But this year's event will be menaced by something called the Un-F America Tour, started by a group of progressive influencers and organizers, including the massively popular streamer, Destiny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the all roads lead to Rome thing, right? He can do the exact same behavior he said that Biden couldn't get away with doing.
[20:55:06]
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): They want to bring progressive debate to Kirk's doorstep. But first, they have to get in.
O'SULLIVAN: So, Turning Point has cancelled all of Un-F America's credentials, and now they're trying to sneak in Destiny, so he can debate inside here. So Destiny has made it inside the building, and we'll see how long he lasts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a major streamer named Destiny, who's a democratic liberal streamer. He appears to be debating Myron Gaines, who's more of a right-wing Red Pill guy. They're both sort of creatures of internet trolldom, but it should be a lot of fun.
You know, it's like blood sports, it's like watching a cockfight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'd love to see it though.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'd love to see it, it's great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're at Student Action Summit, we've got Destiny and Myron here today. Have a little friendly conversation. Good to see you bro.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Young people may be tuning out the news, but this new form of live, provocative political debate is blowing up online. Its cultural significance is something well known to Kirk, because he's part of it.
KIRK: Hello everyone, I am Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA, and I am surrounded by 20 woke college kids.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Under a tent with the words, prove me wrong, Kirk brought online debater culture directly to hundreds of college campuses during the last election cycle.
KIRK: We have a problem in black America. The biggest problem is not racism. It's the lack of dads.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): And while he uses it to make viral content, its primary goal is to register Gen Z to vote MAGA.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love the fact that we are now becoming like, we're becoming the cool kids now. KIRK: But no, I just want to be clear, is there something wrong with
talking to voters?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, there's nothing wrong with talking to voters.
KIRK: Well that's what we're doing here today, it's an open mic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that you push a dangerous agenda.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): It's a strategy that those behind Un-F America say the DNC has been absent to counter.
STEVEN BONNELL, ONLINE STREAMER: I hate Charlie Kirk, I think he's actually a Satan spawn, but he's very, very strategically minded.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): At an event organized by the Un-F America crew down the street from the convention center, both conservatives and liberals packed into a pub to eat chicken wings, drink beer, and watch conservative voices try to take on Destiny.
O'SULLIVAN: Charlie Kirk's been doing this a long time, more than 10 years. Why has it taken the left so long to catch up, and it still hasn't caught up?
BONNELL: Republicans, vertically, are very well integrated when it comes to making sure that they're winning elections.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
BONNELL: There's people who in 2020, they thought the election was stolen in every state, basically --
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
BONNELL: -- but they still showed up to vote next time. So something is happening there where they're really big on going out and winning elections. And I think that that shows at every single level to where when people are organizing, or when people are creating alternative media networks, whether you're talking Tim Kool, influencing other ones like Joe Rogan, or trying to do things with college kids like Charlie Kirk, they're making these events and they're gathering all these different people for Charlie Kirk and school kids, but the single focus is winning elections. It's incredibly important.
O'SULLIVAN: Did Democrats have anything like this?
ZEE COHEN SANCHEZ, DEMOCRATIC ORGANIZER, NATIONAL GROUND GAME: Nothing. And I will say, like, Charlie Kirk is honestly one of the best organizers of our generation. And I think that, you know, as much as I disagree with Charlie Kirk, I believe that what he's doing has worked. And that's why I'm here to replicate what he's doing.
I'm not here to, you know, disrupt Charlie Kirk's events. I'm here to say that there are alternative ideas and that we need to build the same thing that he has because he is good at it.
O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Zee Cohen Sanchez has worked more than a decade on Democratic campaigns.
O'SULLIVAN: Is the DNC supporting this?
SANCHEZ: No, not currently.
O'SULLIVAN: Why not?
SANCHEZ: If Ken Martin's watching this, text me back. But really, I mean, I think it's disappointing that we haven't been able to see the DNC really get off the ground since the election because I think a lot of things have happened internally that have been distractions to the actual ground game that we need right now.
O'SULLIVAN: Back inside, the packed event giving the Un-F America organizers hope there will be appetite for similar debates on college campuses this fall.
KIRK: I do 100 hours of this a semester, 100 hours, in addition to two hours of podcasting radio. I mean, the physical crowds are now three, four thousand people almost every time we do this.
O'SULLIVAN: And so the plan for this semester is Charlie Kirk shows up at campuses all across the country. And you guys are going to be there too.
SANCHEZ: Well, that's the goal. If we can raise the money enough money to get there, we absolutely got. People wonder why the youth vote shifted nine points to the right.
O'SULLIVAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And that's a big reason why. He's put the footwork in and we have it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: So Donie, she mentioned Ken Martin the DNC chair relatively new in the job. Why? Why won't they embrace this group?
O'SULLIVAN: Well, yes, as you heard there John they're waiting for a callback. But look, I think a lot of it is to do it controversy frankly and destiny the streamer you saw in that piece. Part of the culture especially among Gen Z online is really sort of -- this sort of non-stop trolling what is called shit posting.
[21:00:04]
And for instance, during the recent Texas floods, when so many children died in that terrible tragedy, somebody like Destiny went online, started saying, trying to poke conservatives saying, well, look, this is proof that God doesn't exist. So like, there's this sort of constant culture of trying to poke the other side, no matter how tasteless a joke might be.
But what we've seen on the right in the Magaverse is that they're OK with embracing that. And these guys are arguing that the Democrats need to get with the program.
KING: Donie O'Sullivan, thank you. Fascinating report. And the news continues. The Source with Kaitlan Collins starts now.
