Return to Transcripts main page

Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

Trump, Trying to Arrange A Meeting Between Putin And Zelenskyy; Trump Pauses Talks With Zelenskyy, Euro Leaders To Call Putin; Joint Chiefs Chairman And His Staff Working Through Potential Security Guarantees For Ukraine; Zelenskyy Says He Had A Long Discussion With Trump Over Map Showing Russian-Occupied Territories; Russia Rejects "Any Scenarios" Involving Appearance Of NATO Troops In Ukraine; Tropical Storm Watch Issued For NC Coast. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 18, 2025 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: That that meant something -- it meant something so profound to her.

MONICA LEWINSKY, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE TWISTED TALE OF AMANDA KNOX": I think it can be so hard to be seen by the whole world and actually not be seen. And so, I think in a moment like that, that's really what that connection was about and she deserved her time then, and she's blossomed and she deserves to get to be a part of telling her story and we have this amazing creative team with Warren and K.J. and Hulu and 20th Television and Lisa and A.J. and it's been amazing.

WARREN LITTLEFIELD, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE TWISTED TALE OF AMANDA KNOX": Absolutely.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Well some covers -- what it's like to be to be seen by everyone and yet not seen.

Thank you both so much. I appreciate it, and it's good to see you both. And thanks to all of you, AC360 starts now.

[20:00:49]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER: 360": Good evening, thanks for joining us. Tonight, the President is calling his multi-way second summit in three days over the war in Ukraine a success and teasing two more meetings in the works. He says the next one, still to be arranged would be between President Zelenskyy and Putin, followed by one in which he would also take part.

He announced this on his social network and called his meeting with Ukraine's President and European leaders very good. He added that during the meeting we discussed security guarantees for Ukraine, which guarantees would be provided by the various European countries with a coordination with the United States of America.

Now, this capped off what was by almost any measure, a remarkable day and scene at the White House, three days after the Presidents poorly received red carpet meeting, and some with Vladimir Putin in Anchorage, Alaska, the President played host to Zelenskyy. As I mentioned, a quickly assembled phalanx of Europeans, the leaders of five NATO allies. NATO secretary general and the president of the European Commission.

It was by appearance, almost a G7 summit. By design, though, it was also like a diplomatic intervention or as former U.N. Ambassador, Trump's first term National Security Adviser John Bolton explained earlier today on CNN, this was President Zelenskyy and the European allies attempting to put a fence between President Trump and the influence of Vladimir Putin. And even midway through, they seem pleased at how well it was going.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I believe a peace agreement at the end of all of this is something that's very attainable, and it can be done in the near future.

MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: I think if we play this well, we could end this.

FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: The next steps ahead are the more complicated ones now. The path is open, you opened it last Friday.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: I think that we had a very good conversation with President Trump.

TRUMP: Very good.

ZELENSKYY: And it really was the best one or sorry, maybe the best one will be in the future but it was really good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That tone was in sharp contrast to fears of how it may have gone, especially in light of the President posting this last night on social media, putting the onus for stopping the war entirely on President Zelenskyy, saying he can, "End the war with Russia almost immediately if he wants to."

Now, the tone of that post, combined with Friday's summit, raised fears of a repeat of February's Oval Office meeting of Zelenskyy by the President and Vice President Vance, which even extended to criticism of his wardrobe by an administration friendly reporter. Here's that same reporter today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: First of all, Mr. President Zelenskyy, you look fabulous in that suit.

TRUMP: I said the same.

REPORTER: Yes, you look good.

TRUMP: I said the same thing.

REPORTER: Yes, looks good.

TRUMP: That's the one that attacked you last time. See, now --

ZELENSKYY: I remember that.

REPORTER: I apologize to you. But you look wonderful. No, my first question for you, President Zelenskyy --

ZELENSKYY: You're in the same suit. You see, I changed mine.

REPORTER: Maybe, yours is much better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Also today, as he underscored in his social media post tonight, the President appeared to commit the country to some sort of Western security guarantee to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's going to be good. They are first line of defense because they're there, they're Europe. But we're going to help them out also, we'll be involved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: When asked whether that might include American troops, he did not rule it out, saying only, "we'll let you know that maybe later today." The Kremlin quickly poured cold water on that idea. Foreign ministry spokeswoman saying Russia opposes any scenarios involving NATO military involvement which would threaten, she said, "uncontrollable escalation of the conflict with unpredictable consequences."

As for the Presidents phone call late today with President Putin, the Kremlin called it candid and very constructive. It came partway through his meeting with European leaders. Here's how Finland's President described both the call and today's talks to CNN's Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDER STUBB, FINNISH PRESIDENT: So basically, there were three outcomes of today. The first one was a good conversation on security guarantees. In other words, security guarantees by Europe and coordinated with the United States for Ukraine and we start that work on concrete things immediately.

The second one was a suggestion of a bilateral meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin, and that was what President Trump was testing with President Putin and President Putin had agreed to do that meeting. And then the third step is after the bilateral meeting, if everything goes well, which is, of course, always a big if when you're dealing with Putin, there will be a trilateral meeting.

So, I think this was one of these meetings where we kind of took, you know, three steps forward rather than any backwards.

[20:05:25]

COOPER: Germany's chancellor, also weighing in tonight about the Putin-Zelenskyy meeting, saying Mr. Putin agreed to make it within the next two weeks. The day was also marked by some familiar aspects of many public moments for the President. He called it Joe Biden's war, not his. Not mentioning that it is, in fact, Vladimir Putin's war, first and foremost.

He also launched several digressions about mail-in voting, which, as you know, Mr. Putin apparently reinforced during their meeting in Alaska. And in a hot microphone moment, talking to France's President Macron about the three-way meeting. He said tonight he's trying to arrange. He seemed to put great stock in something was said to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think he wants to make a deal for me. Do you understand that, as crazy as it sounds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I want to get right to someone who knows what it's like to be in the room alongside President Trump and world leaders, including Vladimir Putin. Ambassador John Bolton, as I mentioned, served as National Security advisor during the first Trump term and as the U.S. representative to the United Nations under President George W. Bush.

So, Ambassador Bolton, as you just heard, Germany's chancellor said that Vladimir Putin agreed to meet with Zelenskyy within two weeks. We should note Zelenskyy just said that bilateral meetings should happen without conditions. What do you make of what came out of today?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think everybody's in a happy mood and that's better than not being in a happy mood, I suppose. But a lot of this is very diaphanous and gossamer. Let's just take the bilateral meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin. When Zelenskyy says, without conditions, that that is directly the opposite, I'm sure of what Putin is saying. I'd love to meet in two weeks, says Putin, on the following conditions A, B, C, D and you have small details like where and so on to work out.

I think the focus on meetings underscores the lack of substance in all this. Take there the question of the security guarantees. People were saying at times, well, Trump hasn't ruled out American forces on the ground which could involve American forces in combat with Russian forces at some point if they violated the ceasefire, which I'm sure the Presidents MAGA base wouldn't enthusiastic about. And it turns out, as Mark Rutte, the Secretary-General of NATO, said after the meeting today, there was no discussion of U.S. ground forces in Ukraine.

So, you know, the President and Zelenskyy started off with a normal meeting in the White House, maybe even a good meeting. And that's a wonderful contrast to the meeting in February. But now that we're back to normal, that's supposed to mean we're on the road to peace. I mean, I just think we need to temper our enthusiasm a little bit here and see how it goes.

COOPER: When you hear, you know, sort of vague things about security guarantees. This would be something that Europe essentially is doing with what the President called or what the U.S. call coordination with the United States. I mean, so that's, you know, this administration has ruled out NATO, you know, any NATO membership for Ukraine and the idea and any involvement by U.S. Forces. So, is that a real security guarantee?

BOLTON: Well, it's questionable in my mind and I noticed in that last statement, which is Trump pulling back again from the notion of a robust American presence in the security guarantee that it's just with coordination, not fully involved. And some of the plans that have been put forward that would have British and French troops on the ground in Ukraine rely at their foundation on the United States coming to get them out if they need their chestnuts pulled out of the fire.

I still don't think that's in the cards for Trump. That's not what he had in mind and the absence of references to an Article V-like guarantee, I thought, were also interesting, despite the fact that at the opening of the meeting with the Europeans, several of the European leaders specifically said, thank you, Mr. President, for considering Article V-like guarantee. So, maybe that's off the board too.

But what is even more important is what you haven't heard in any of this, which is what demands are the Russians making for further concessions of Ukrainian territory and people before we get to any of this.

COOPER: Do you have a sense also -- I mean, there's also the issue of Ukrainian children who have been taken into Russia. No indication if that is something that was discussed today or really a lot of the details of what was discussed today. The call that Trump made to Putin in the middle of this summit is that unusual?

[20:10:10]

BOLTON: Well, I think it's very unusual and I think that's one reason why some of the European leaders are apparently staying for dinner, because 40 minutes out of the middle of that meeting while they sat and cooled their heels in the east room, must have been something to watch. But it also indicates, I think, that that Putin got an opportunity to get his two-cents worth in the middle of what was supposed to be a meeting of the Western leaders. And there will obviously be other conversations that Putin will get his say.

And so, this is really developing, I will say I agree in an unusual way, but that doesn't necessarily bode well for the process.

COOPER: When we spoke before the Alaska summit, you said that Putin might dangle something President Trump might want, like negotiations or extending the new start treaty on nuclear weapons in order to gain concessions. It didn't seem to happen at least the two men made no reference to it after the summit. Why do you think President Trump has shifted so firmly to Putin's point of view, that there can be no -- or that it doesn't matter that there's a ceasefire? I mean, that was -- it's just stunning to me how the day before Friday's summit, you know, he was talking about how there has to be a ceasefire and there would be significant consequences if nothing came out of the summit, that's all just evaporated.

BOLTON: Right, and although, it still remains, at least as of the beginning of the meeting with the European leaders, their preference, several of them, again referenced almost in coordinated language, how important it would be to have a ceasefire and then have negotiations follow it.

I think actually, it's correct to say that there should not be a ceasefire, not for the reasons Trump is saying, but because from Ukraine's perspective, if you have a ceasefire along the existing front lines on the battlefield and then have negotiations that stretch out over months and years, that ceasefire line could harden into a border.

Now, there's a caveat that goes along with that, which is Ukraine has to has to have the resources to continue prosecuting the war against Russia. But if that's forthcoming, I think that will help show more quickly than not that the party that really doesn't want peace here is Russia.

COOPER: Interesting, Ambassador Bolton, thank you for your time again. President Trump says he has begun making arrangements for a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin. When and where, unclear.

For more, I'm joined now by CNN's Fred Pleitgen in Moscow. What more can you tell us about the call between President Trump and President Putin? What are you hearing?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Russians also confirming that that call took place, Anderson. They say it lasted about 40 minutes, but it doesn't seem as though the Russians are specifically saying that arrangements are being made for a Putin- Zelenskyy summit. Whether that could be in the works anytime soon. I want to read you some of the bullet points from a senior Kremlin aide, Yuri Ushakov, who actually was also in the room with President Trump and Vladimir Putin, that summit in Alaska and he said, "The President expressed support for the continuation of direct talks between the delegations of Russia and Ukraine."

Of course, such talks have been going on for a while at lower level delegations and the Russians then only going on to say "Putin and Trump discussed the idea of raising the level of direct Russian- Ukrainian negotiations," in other words, raising the level of participants, which could mean the head of state but doesn't necessarily have to.

So, the Russians still fairly vague about whether or not they actually agreed to hold a top level summit, a bilateral meeting between Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Vladimir Putin, and certainly also whether or not a trilateral meeting is in the cards as well. The Russians also, Anderson, not saying anything about potential security guarantees. We know, of course, that Vladimir Putin, after his meeting with President Trump in Alaska, said that he understands the Ukrainian's need security guarantees. But the Russians, then, as you noted already saying today that they would not accept any NATO troops on the ground in Ukraine -- Anderson.

COOPER: Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, thanks.

Joining me now is CNN political analyst, "New York Times" White House correspondent Maggie Haberman and CNN chief political analyst, David Axelrod.

Maggie, when you and I spoke, I think it was Friday about the summit. You had pointed to something that President Trump had said on the plane on the way to the summit, which was about the security guarantees and indicating that there could be some sort of middle ground between the U.S. providing security guarantees and European countries.

It seems like that's where the President's head is at, though it's unclear what that may mean. Coordination is now -- like U.S. coordination of European security guarantees.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right, I think we still don't know what the dynamics of this are going to be. But yes, what he is talking about today is roughly what my understanding was on Friday of where he thought this might be, and that was the new piece of this. He has been opposed to any kind of security guarantee involving the U.S. before, but again, involved is kind of a fluid term here. I don't think that he actually, despite the fact that he didn't rule out troops on the ground, U.S. troops, I don't think that's actually where he wants to go.

I do think it will be something more like a circuitous, you know, continuing to sell arms to European nations that are then earmarked for Ukraine. I think there actually already is a component of that, whether that is going to be enough to get to a deal. I mean, you know, President Trump began the day by saying the onus is on President Zelenskyy to just he could end this war. But actually, that's really not who it's up to. There is this other person, Vladimir Putin, who, as good as Donald Trump is at standing still and saying, you have to come to my terms, Putin is actually better at that.

[20:15:32]

COOPER: David, I want to play well, actually, I want to point out that Zelenskyy said thank you five times in the Oval Office today compared to that contentious meeting back in February when President Trump said Zelenskyy was not acting thankful. And their questions have you ever said thank you, even though he has said thank you to the U.S. numerous times. The tone today could not have been any different. I mean, from pretty much everybody involved. But Zelenskyy certainly, and European leaders, they certainly came in with a plan.

I mean, he came in with a suit that he was wearing and the thank you, and it was a very different dynamic.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, well, I think that they have learned, the world has learned. And Vladimir Putin, above all, has learned that flattery is a very, very effective tool with this President and all of them are tripping over each other to do that. But listen I, you know, when you read his, his post overnight on Truth Social, the fear was that he was going to try and force Putin's solution onto Zelenskyy and I think part of the reason the Europeans were here was to prevent that.

For now, apparently, they have, they're still talking. But what was also remarkable, Anderson, was the conversation he had that was on a hot mic with President Macron where he said, I think Putin wants to do the deal for me.

COOPER: He didn't actually say Putin I should --

AXELROD: So this goes back to my first point --

COOPER: I just want to point out he didn't say Vladimir Putin in that. He just said, I think he wants to do -- we're assuming its Putin but I mean, it would seem to be out --

AXELROD: Okay, that's fair, that's fair. That's fair but, you know, Putin, who's a master manipulator I'm sure is giving Trump the impression that they are special friends and he wants to be cooperative to help him. That is not who Vladimir Putin is. Vladimir Putin is everything that has been said. He's a killer and a thug and, he is pursuing his own agenda, which is for you know, this Russian expansionist agenda.

And so, you know, this whole drama, I mean, it's great that we are not in a different place than we could have been, but it's not clear where we are and that's unsettling.

COOPER: Maggie, you pointed out in "The New York Times" a blog, live blog that the Trump administration has worked hard to reshape the White House press corps and stack it with, with friendly outlets. We saw Fox reporter ask Zelenskyy if he's prepared to keep sending troops to their deaths or if he'll agree to redraw the maps as if that's a binary choice. And obviously, I mean, how much do you think the White House is benefiting from the sort of friendly right wing ecosystem he's now in place?

HABERMAN: Yes, I don't even think that that questioner is Peter Doocy from Fox's who's covered other White House's -- I don't actually -- I don't know that he's an example of it.

COOPER: Well, that's your --

HABERMAN: I think you've seen him in other pools. I think you've seen Brian Glenn who is a is very prominent on social media, who was the one who first asked Zelenskyy about his suit in the last meeting and then engaged in this back and forth about this today and had this banter with the President, the pool looks nothing like what it used to and they have -- slowly they talk a lot about how transparent they are and how much more visible this President is. And yes, he is certainly more visible than Joe Biden was. But they have shaped the pool so that the rigorous questioning he gets is far more limited than it used to be. He does still get some, but it is not what it once was. So, that we don't ask questions like what David was just pointing to, which is where do things actually stand? You know, is Putin actually giving anything up? You know, how -- do you have any condemnation of Putin? Why did you switch from what you said on Friday? We really haven't heard a lot of that.

COOPER: And you're right to point out, Peter Doocy is not part of that kind of redrawing of the press room. Maggie, thanks very much. David Axelrod as well.

Coming up, more on tonight's breaking news. President Trump saying the leaders of Russia and Ukraine could soon have a meeting of their own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, look, the war is going to end. When it ends, I can tell you, but the war is going to end and this gentleman wants it to end and Vladimir Putin wants it to end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:24:21]

COOPER: Some of the principals have started talking about the talks tonight. NATO secretary general just moments ago called the talks very successful. Ukraine's President Zelenskyy tonight said he's ready for a meeting in, "any format", with Mr. Putin.

As for how this all plays out, were joined now by Susan Rice, former U.N. ambassador and National Security adviser. Ambassador, we saw that that post from President -- the President saying that the White House is beginning to make arrangements for a meeting between Putin, Zelenskyy, as well as a trilateral meeting that he spoke about. The German chancellor said that Putin agreed to meet with Zelenskyy within two weeks. Do you think those meetings will hold?

[20:25:01]

SUSAN RICE, FORMER U.N. AMBASSADOR AND NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I hope so, Anderson, but it's really hard to say. Putin is continuing to play a game of cat and mouse and, you know, we hear one thing coming out of Alaska and then a very different thing out of their foreign ministry today, for example, about security guarantees. The Foreign Ministry coming out any involvement by Western military forces on the ground in Ukraine as part of a deal to stabilize and keep the peace and protect Ukraine's sovereignty.

So, it's very hard to know if this is more a Russian rope-a-dope or if there's something potentially significant that could come of this.

COOPER: What would security guarantees or what should security guarantees look like that would actually work? Because it seems pretty clear. Well the U.S. -- the Trump administration and President Trump is saying they will -- they're open to some security guarantees. He's now talking about kind of European countries doing it with coordination from the U.S., whatever that might mean.

RICE: The only meaningful security guarantee that anybody in Ukraine could take to the bank would, frankly, be Ukraine's membership of NATO. And then protection of Ukraine would be a treaty obligation of the United States and the other members of NATO. And, you know, it wouldn't depend on the whim of a President or his successor, it would be locked in.

Now, in the absence of that, the Trump administration is talking about, you know, Article V-like guarantees. Well, nobody knows what an Article Five like guarantee is. Article V is the provision of the NATO Treaty that commits, all members to come to the defense of any member that is attacked as the NATO allies did with us after 9/11.

Article V-like, is very ambiguous. It's likely to be non-binding and it's very vulnerable to not only the, the whim of the American President to make those guarantees real, but also to what transpires in Europe. So, I think, you know, you could envision European forces in some configuration on the ground with an American guarantee to support them and to support Ukraine in the event of another Russian attack. But that is, there are a lot of ifs and conditionals in there that I think, would rightly give many Ukrainians pause.

COOPER: It is remarkable to me that on Thursday night, on the eve of Friday's summit, President Trump very clearly said that there would be significant consequences if there was not you know, of an end to the war. Didn't come out of this summit. He's completely backed off that. I mean, that's -- as if that didn't happen and even the very idea that there has to be a ceasefire, which is something he has spoken to repeatedly in the past, also seems to have disappeared.

RICE: This is very concerning, if not surprising. President Trump has said for weeks, if not longer, that a ceasefire is absolutely necessary. The killing has to stop. He put the onus on both parties to agree. The Ukrainians agreed immediately. The Russians never did.

He gets to Alaska, having said as recently as, you know, the plane ride to Alaska that he would be very upset if there were no ceasefire and that there would be severe consequences, as you said. And he melted like ice in the Alaska sun, as soon as he met with Putin.

Putin, obviously, wants to keep fighting. He wants to press his military advantage and he wants to kill as many Ukrainians as possible. And by Trump agreeing that a ceasefire is not a necessary first step in precondition, he's allowing the killing to continue and Putin to have his way.

So this is not surprising, as I said, given the strange nature of the spell that Putin seems to have over Trump. But it's very dangerous for Ukraine and for the Western alliance. And it means were in a much different situation than we should be, where we should be stepping up the pressure on Russia, imposing the kinds of sanctions that the President has long threatened on Russia, on, its major trading partners and yet that's not happening. COOPER: Ambassador Rice, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

RICE: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Joining me now for a look at the military situation in Ukraine. Retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton, a CNN military analyst and former member of the joint chiefs of staff. So, Colonel Leighton, the Donbas region is understood generally to be compromised of Donetsk, Luhansk oblast in Eastern Ukraine. Why is this area -- explain why it's so hotly contested. I mean, is it just the geographic location right on the border with Russia? Ukraine has talked about it as kind of a launching pad for a future war.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, that's right, Anderson, and one of the key things about the Donbas region is that it has a lot of resources.

So, you have a population center that existed before the before the war, but you have resources, industrial resources, mineral resources. All of those become part of the reason for fighting over the Donbas region. And then you have the cultural reasons.

[20:30:38]

There's an ethnic Russian presence in the Donbas region, primarily due to movements during the Soviet Union period, and that resulted in a lot of ethnic Russians being moved into that area, especially with a lot of Ukrainians disappearing in the famine during Stalin's time. But from a modern perspective, Ukraine needs the Donbas in order to survive economically, and that's why it's so important.

COOPER: Well, I mean, these -- the rare earth minerals, which President Trump has expressed such interest in -- they are -- a lot of that is in the Donbas. And if Russia is holding onto that, there's also the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant right there on the border. If it's not in Donbas, very close to the border.

Putin has reportedly demanded that Ukraine pull back from the entirety of these two regions as part of any agreement. Do you think there's any possibility Ukraine would give up the Donbas?

LEIGHTON: No, I don't -- I don't think they would voluntarily, because one of the key things here is the eastern, excuse me, the western part of the Donetsk Oblast, which is part of the Donbas region. That western part contains a belt of fortifications, four towns that have significant fortifications that Ukraine has set up since 2014.

The Russians have been unable to dislodge the Ukrainians from that area. If the Russians were to get that possession of that area, they could then move into the central part of Ukraine and potentially divide the country in two, and that would be a major blow to the Ukrainians. That is why it's important for the Ukrainians to keep that area from a military standpoint.

They don't have the capability right now to rebuild those fortifications just west of that area, and that's why they need to keep those fortifications.

COOPER: Colonel Leighton, thanks so much.

Coming up, the revelation that First Lady Melania Trump wrote a private letter to Vladimir Putin.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She loves children. And she hates to see something like this happening, and it goes for other wars too.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: We'll have more on that.

Plus breaking news on Hurricane Erin, a major category 4 storm already causing hazards along the east coast. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:37:33]

COOPER: An interesting moment from today at the White House, during President Trump's meeting with Ukrainian President and other European leaders, he paused to call Vladimir Putin. That conversation was described as candid and very constructive by Kremlin aid.

One of the things discussed, according to Finland's President, who was there, was the idea of a meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin directly. Here's more of what he told CNN's Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

PRES. ALEXANDER STUBB, FINLAND: President Trump is genuinely trying to bring this war to an end, and we're all working in that direction. But of course, you know, we are dealing with President Putin, and we do have to understand that his, you know, basic strategic aims have not changed, and they are threefold.

He wants to see Russia as a superpower. He wants to split the West, and he wants to deny the sovereignty of Ukraine. So that's the reality that we're dealing with.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: With more on all this, I'm joined by Senator Amy Klobuchar, Democrat from Minnesota. How much thought do you put in this apparent progress to set up a meeting with President Zelenskyy and Putin?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Well, I hope it happens. Clearly, it's something that President Zelenskyy has wanted for a while, and as someone who met with President Zelenskyy along with Republican and Democratic members of the Senate right before he went into that last meeting with Vance, the Vice President and the President, that undermined the process for months. And as you know, thousands and thousands of people have died in the interim. So the fact that they are now meeting, that Europeans showed up in such force with the leaders from Germany and Great Britain and Italy and France, and you add in the E.U. and NATO, that was a show of force to support President Zelenskyy, the people of Ukraine.

And so my hope is that there is a meeting, but as we know, Vladimir Putin is someone who does not keep his promises. So to me, you need a ceasefire. You need -- and that's got to be part of the demand. He just killed 14 more people right before going into this meeting in the Kharkiv region.

You've got to ensure that these kids are returned. You mentioned this earlier, 20,000 kids have been abducted. They should not be part of negotiations. That should be done immediately so that that does not encourage other tyrants like Vladimir Putin to take kids as part of leveraging.

[20:40:01]

And then you've got to go into what you've been talking about tonight, Anderson, with the land and with the security guarantees, which I'll note the Europeans have been talking about for months. And my meeting with other senators, with President Macron and others, where they're ready in the coalition of the willing to put up troops, so long as there is an agreement that the Ukrainians are OK with, that would allow it to be enforced so Vladimir Putin doesn't once again invade as has happened in the past.

COOPER: Is the U.S. providing -- I mean, what is the status of what the U.S. is providing Ukraine? I mean, I know President Trump has essentially now, you know, we're selling weapons to European countries and then they can give those weapons to Ukraine.

We're not -- you know, it's not Ukraine buying weapons from the U.S. or being sent from U.S. stockpiles. Is the U.S. still doing intelligence sharing? I mean, is the level of -- is there enough level of actually on the ground cooperation and assistance to Ukraine that if, even if there, you know, if there isn't a ceasefire, that Ukraine can continue to defend themselves?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, the U.S. does continue to help Ukraine in various ways and that has been going on for a while. And I think President Zelenskyy was very clear today in thanking the U.S. for that help and there's bipartisan support for that. And that has really been unwavering. It's just gone through different phases, obviously, and different views with President Trump, some of the things he said in the past.

The Congress also, the U.S. Senate has over 80 votes on the Blumenthal and Graham bill. And I'm one of the co-sponsors of that. That would make it clear that there's going to be more severe economic sanctions if Putin continues in this violation of sovereignty and this killing of the Ukrainian people.

So there are tools we have, and that's what I think you're trying to get at here, to keep pushing the leverage we have with our allies. And that must continue to get Putin to actually agree to the ceasefire and to get him to the table to the point where he actually is making an agreement that will work and where there's a security guarantee with some type of peacekeeping force, which will not be a NATO force, as Ambassador Rice just pointed out.

But we'd like that. But, in fact, could be something like a NATO force with a combination of forces from, as they call it, the coalition of the willing.

COOPER: You know, we learned that First Lady Melania Trump wrote a private letter to Vladimir Putin. She didn't specifically reference the war in Ukraine, but she urged him to use his power to protect children. President Trump talked about that today. I just want to quickly play that.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

TRUMP: So the First Lady felt very strongly. She's watched the same thing that you watch and that I watch. I see things that you don't get to see, and it's horrible. But when she's got a great love of children, she has a wonderful son that she loves probably more than anybody, including me.

I hate to say it, but she loves her son. She loves children. And she hates to see something like this happening. And that goes for other wars, too. I mean, she sees the heartbreak, the parents, the funerals that you see on television, always funerals. We want to see something other than funerals.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

COOPER: You've pushed for the U.S. government to do more to investigate Russia's abduction of Ukrainian kids. You mentioned the 20,000 figure. I saw a Yale University number of about 35,000. The President himself actually posted online a short time ago about his concern for the plight of missing kids.

Are you at all optimistic about their fate? I mean, you know, separate from these negotiations? I mean, as you said --

KLOBUCHAR: Well --

COOPER: -- this is something that should be done.

KLOBUCHAR: I appreciate that the First Lady sent that letter. I'm reading through the lines. I assume that's what this was about. Because what -- when you talk to these families, this is horrific. They thought they're sending their kids to a summer camp in a safe place away from the bombing, and they don't come back.

Kids are abducted from war-torn areas as babies, and they don't even remember their Ukrainian culture. And so getting those kids back to the families would be the first step, and again, not part of a negotiation, because what it would encourage around the world, the evilness of taking children from families. And that is what's happened, and that is why President Zelenskyy's wife has embraced this issue. And I am glad that Melania Trump sent this letter, and I hope that it highlights this issue. But as you point out, the tracking, they stop -- the State Department stopped paying for that tracking, and they've had to use crowdsourcing to get it done.

And Senator Grassley and I have a resolution, a bill, and the like, to keep that going, or we're never going to find those kids.

[20:45:00]

COOPER: Wow. Senator Klobuchar, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Coming up next --

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.

COOPER: -- I'll talk with two former U.S. ambassadors about the diplomatic and political road ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: More in our breaking news. Today's multi-way summit on Ukraine and the bilateral and then trilateral talks the President sees ahead.

Joining me now is Kurt Volker, former U.S. Ambassador to NATO and more recently special representative for Ukraine negotiations in the first Trump term. Also CNN Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator Rahm Emanuel.

So, Ambassador Volker, how do you think today turned out?

KURT VOLKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Well, I think this was yet another step. I think what we're seeing is the beginning of negotiations. President Trump got President Putin to lay out a proposal on Friday. Admittedly, it is an extremist proposal with no give from Putin whatsoever, but at least it's out there now.

And then he got Ukraine, European leaders together. They're coming up with a different idea. And then he wants to put the sides together to see if you can create a negotiation. That's actually not bad.

[20:50:04]

Probably the more significant thing underneath the surface of all this is the U.S. committing to support a reassurance force, a deterrence force in Ukraine once there is a ceasefire or a settlement to guarantee Ukraine's security into the future. President Trump had not done that before, and that looks like that's a big emerging accomplishment.

COOPER: Yes, with U.S. coordination undefined exactly what that means. Ambassador Emanuel, what do you think came out of it?

RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL & GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, let me pick up on the last point, because I think this is very important, because the world really fell short in Budapest 1994 for Ukraine's independence and sovereignty and also what is called the Minsk 2014 and the Minsk 2015 agreement.

The United States and Europe did not show up. So I think the biggest point here, while land is a piece of it, territory and the Finnish example -- is an example, but getting specific what that security agreement will be in paper, in commitment, resources, so you don't have a repeat of Budapest 1994 and Minsk 2014 and 2015, referred to as Minsk 1 and 2. That to me, if it's true and the United States will show up, that force, more than a trip wire, but a real presence of security, will be a significant change in bridging the differences between Ukraine and Russia.

COOPER: Ambassador Volker, I mean, is -- if it is European nations with some troops on the ground in Ukraine without U.S., is that enough?

VOLKER: Well, I think the U.S. is going to have to support this. We're going to have to provide intelligence, surveillance, logistics and backup, including possibly we should be working with Ukraine to give them a serious air defense capability so that Russia in the future is not able to do what Russia is doing every night right now, which is bombing Ukrainian civilians. So we've got to help them out of that.

EMANUEL: Anderson, if I --

COOPER: Go ahead, man (ph).

EMANUEL: OK, I'm sorry. No, go ahead, Anderson.

COOPER: No, no, no. I was --

EMANUEL: I think actually one thing that hasn't -- one thing that -- I've been watching the coverage all day. One thing that hasn't been noted, but I think is really important, is away from the meetings. Soon as President Putin leaves Alaska, he calls the heads of state of India, Brazil, South Africa, all three nations that make up the BRICS, all three nations that we have, in my view, wrongly treated because they could be potential allies and partners.

And we want to break up the BRICS. The way President Trump has conducted the last seven months has brought cohesion to the BRICS as a force that doesn't have any inherent logic to it. And India could be -- has been used by American presidents after American presidents have been bringing India closer in as a counter to China.

Brazil, we have a trade surplus. South Africa, we have a long history of relationship. And I think it's a telling example, while we're all watching the Oval Office, we're all watching Alaska. Who did President Putin automatically call? All the countries in America, they're powerful countries, big economies, real forces in the non-aligned world, and he's aligning them against the United States.

And we created that opportunity that didn't have to exist. That is another subtext to this story. COOPER: Investor Volker, do you think it matters that there is not going to be, it would seem, a ceasefire prior to any talk? I mean, it had been, I don't know if it was a red line, allegedly, for President Trump, but he had talked about the necessity of a ceasefire. Now, all of a sudden, it seems like he doesn't think that's a necessity.

VOLKER: Well, look, I think a ceasefire would be the best thing. The reason that you want to have a ceasefire is to stop the killing immediately. It doesn't mean that everything stops then, but at least fewer people are dying. That would have been a good thing.

I think President Trump just ran into a stone wall with Putin, who would refuse a ceasefire. So he flipped and said, OK, let's work on a final agreement then. A couple of additional thoughts, if I could, Anderson.

So, just on what Ambassador Emanuel said, I don't -- I agree with him. There is nothing that glues these BRICS countries together. They have no natural common interests. Putin is trying to work that, but frankly, there's very little to work with there.

Meanwhile, with President Trump calling our European allies, these are our closest allies. These are countries that share our values and interests, and they're ones we are going to count on when it comes to implementation of any security arrangements in any deal. So good for him for making those calls.

The other thing that I think is important here is that President Trump, I think, brought the parties together, and he's gotten some good sounds from Putin. Today, he called Putin and said, oh, I'm going to agree to a bilateral meeting with Zelenskyy and then a trilateral after that.

Don't count on Putin to keep his word. Putin will say that now, and then we'll see. He'll set a condition and say, oh, well, now we need this before we can have that meeting, or something will happen, and he'll say --

COOPER: Yes.

VOLKER: -- oh, we can't have this meeting because that happened.

[20:55:10]

So this is all a lot of diplomatic dance work going on. What really matters is what happens on the ground.

COOPER: Yes.

Ambassadors --

EMANUEL: Yes -

COOPER: -- Kurt Volker -- sorry, Rahm, we're almost out of time. We got to go. Rahm Emanuel, I appreciate it. More to come.

EMANUEL: Thank you.

COOPER: Coming up, Hurricane Erin and where it's heading now. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Quick update on Hurricane Erin. As tourists and locals evacuate parts of North Carolina's outer banks, a tropical storm watch is now in effect for that area. Luckily, Erin is not expected to directly hit the U.S. There are rip current alerts for the East Coast.

Erin is now a Category 4 storm with maximum sustained winds of 130 miles an hour after growing to a rare Category 5 over the weekend. We'll be watching it closely in the days ahead.

That's it for us. The news continues. The Source starts now.